JosieJo Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I was put on Prozac in 1992 for PMT. After years of being on this & doing ok I thought it was time to move on & being naive stopped cold in 1997. After a few weeks I felt awful, had crying fits, depersonalisation, anxiety. Visited the Doctor & she told me it was depression & would need to be on them forever, put back on 20mg. In 2002 my mum was diagnosed with lung cancer & I quit my counselling practice to nurse her. She sadly died in 2003. I was the strong one in the family & supported everyone, however I wanted to be clean of drugs & decided to taper slowly - 5mg every few months. Not knowing what was grief & what was withdrawal I had insomnia for months, literally could not drop off to sleep, averaging 3 hours from 3am -6am. Anxiety, fear, loose bowels/upset stomach (became afraid of food) started to restrict diet. Lost weight. Doctor thought I had colon problem (I didn't mention being off Prozac as I didn't consider it the issue, plus after certain things I witnessed with my mum had a huge mistrust of the Doctors) and wanted to run tests but I couldn't handle the stress of it. Cannot remember this period too well as I contracted a viral infection in 2005 & didn't recover from it properly. Couldn't drive, ride a bike, swim. Had physical pains. Anxiety, insomnia, no memory or concentration (couldn't read a book or watch TV) all consuming exhaustion. Whirring noise in head, woozy & waterlogged/ foggy sensation. After paying a lot of money received diagnosis from Psychiatrist of M.E/ CFS / Fibromyalgia & Clinical Depression. Put on 80mg Fluoxetine in 2006 (an SNRI was suggested but I refused) My husband had a breakdown at this point was put on Cipralex & I had to move out so he could recover. No one in my immediate family could cope with me, so eventually I was taken in by my (not very well known to me at the time Uncle 300 miles away, I lived outside in a caravan for 3 months through the winter). During that time I tapered down to 50mg as being on such a high dose scared me more than tapering. Came home in 2007 began tapering again slowly, eventually got to 30mg in 2011. 25mg throughout 2012, 20mg throughout 2013 & 15mg during 2014 - all through these years I put up with all previous withdrawal symptoms but used mindfulness techniques to help, along with paced out exercise & suppliments. I also had physiotherapy. Became ill Feb 2015 with chest infection. Then popped a rib coughing, lost where I was via dosage. Then got another infection 2 weeks ago. Panic set in & on Apr 9th went back to 20mg. Waiting to feel stabilised. I have a question - I have been reading about Histamine playing a role in withdrawal from certain meds - has anyone any experience with this in any way, I would be most grateful to hear. Thank you for your time & trouble in reading my introduction. Fluoxetine 20mg started 1992 for PMT. 1st Cold Turkey withdrawal 1997 ended at Docs being told I would need to be on 20mg forever. 2003 slower taper 5mg increments. 2004 Clear - severe insomnia, panic attacks, anxiety, disconnected to body apart from severe pain, foggy brain, memory loss. Crying 2005 exhausted, immobile, very ill. 2006 diagnosed M.E./ CFS / Fybromyalgia Clinical Depression GAD - 80mg Fluoxetine. 2011 Down to 30mg 2012 25mg 2013 20mg 2014 15mg Throughout 2011-14 withdrawal symptoms depersonalisation, tinnitus/whirring noises/ foggy brain, pain in body, anxiety, tum, sleep troubles. 2015 20mg - still trying to stabilise. Link to comment
Jlynn Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Welcome to the site! I am so sorry you have had to go through all of this. Your symptoms are right on par with everything I have had or read on this site. These were the most helpful to me. Someone with more experience and knowledge than me will be along shortly I am sure with the best information. Hang in there and stay strong! http://beyondmeds.com/2013/01/07/histamine-intolerance/ http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/505-antihistamines/ 40 years old and have been on 20 mg of Paxil for the last 19 years. Multiple unsuccessful attempts to quit over the years.01/2015 Was tapering using liquid Paxil. MD has prescribed 1 ml = 2mg taper every two weeks or once withdrawal symptoms at that dose subside. Reduced from 20 to 10 mg using this method and at 10 mg severe withdrawal set in. 1.5 months of pure hell. Found SA, learned what was happening, and reinstated to 20 mg. After a month of severe symptoms recovered with the reinstatement. Fish oil - Multi Vitamin - Pro-biotic, amino-acid/B Vitamin supplement every day. Magnesium as needed.08/09/15 - 18 mg - 09/08/15 - 16.4 mg - 10/10/15 - 15 mg - 01/02/16 - 13.6 mg 02/15/16 - 12.0 mg - Bad symptom flare up 40 days into drop - Dizziness, panic/anxiety, overheating (esp at night), low appetite, headache, insomnia with bizarre dreams, internal shaking. 04/16/16 - 11mg - 7/17/16 - 10 mg holding..... Link to comment
Tilly Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Welcome JosieJo, I'm so sorry to hear all you have been through. I can empathise with many of your experiences. You will find so much useful information and support here and be made to feel very welcome. I am currently looking into the role of histamines in my recovery. The links that Jlynn posted above are very helpful and I would have posted the same as a helpful starting point for you to work from. Take good care and be kind to yourself. Tilly x 1999 - 2004 Paroxetine 20mg -> 2004 - 2007 Citalopram 20mg -> 2007 - short term Trazedone use (insomnia) -> 2007 - 2009 Fluoxetine 20mg -> 2009 - Jan 2012 Citalopram 20mg (Spring / Summer 2012 protracted withdrawal & related agoraphobia) -> 2012 - September Restarted Citalopram - unbearable start up effects. Discontinued in under 1 week -> Oct 12 - October 2014 Escitalopram - 10mg prescribed. Started on 5mg and worked up to 10mg in 2.5mg increments -> Oct 2014 - 5mg; 30/03/15 2.5mg; 15/04/15 3.5mg; 20/05/15 2.9mg; 19/09/15 2.8mg; 30/10/15 2.7mg; 13/11/15 2.6mg. Holding until March. Diet: mostly pescatarianl & lots of veg. Weekly offal for b vitamins. Turmeric, nigella seeds, avocados, apple cider vinegar, coconut products daily. Lots of fluids: water, lemon juice, coconut water, herbal & green tea (decaffeinated). Supplements: vitamin C 4000mg, Omega 3 fish oil - high DPA & EHA, vitamin E 400iu, vitamin D3 5000mg (Winter only - from sun in Spring / Summer), probiotics. Current Symptoms: chronic fatigue, erratic sleep, extreme photophobia, eye floaters, noise sensitivity, tinnitus, cognitive & speech difficulties, dizziness, irregular gait, poor co ordination, severe facial and upper body muscle tension, head and neck pressure. Coping Strategies: good nutrition, cooking, gardening & growing my own food, cycling, dancing, yoga, photography, sewing & creative pursuits, self massage, pampering, meditation, journalling, nature, cuddling cats & humans, laughter & humour, gratitude, self care, aromatherapy, audio books, word games & believing in myself, my potential and my future. "Everything I need is within me" - Shakti Gawain Link to comment
JosieJo Posted April 26, 2015 Author Share Posted April 26, 2015 Thank you Jlynn & Silver Star for your empathic & kind responses. I echo the same to you for the pain & suffering you have also been through. My list of "symptoms" is not conclusive or probably correct because my memory & recall function is impaired, suffice to say they are fairly typical to everyone else. I have decided to stay on 20mg for however long it takes to feel stable - some part of me is having to accept the physical dependence - perhaps in the future I will reconsider my options. In the mean time I continue to cope with life by good nutrition (vegan, Gluten, Alcohol & Caffeine free)Vit C, Omega 3 Plant source & D3, Magnesium, yoga, mindfulness meditation, walking in nature, bike rides, cat cuddling & husband hugging, laughter, growing my own vegetables, reading, believing in the intelligence behind the universe & joining this site. I look forward to (hopefully adding) being a part of this community. Fluoxetine 20mg started 1992 for PMT. 1st Cold Turkey withdrawal 1997 ended at Docs being told I would need to be on 20mg forever. 2003 slower taper 5mg increments. 2004 Clear - severe insomnia, panic attacks, anxiety, disconnected to body apart from severe pain, foggy brain, memory loss. Crying 2005 exhausted, immobile, very ill. 2006 diagnosed M.E./ CFS / Fybromyalgia Clinical Depression GAD - 80mg Fluoxetine. 2011 Down to 30mg 2012 25mg 2013 20mg 2014 15mg Throughout 2011-14 withdrawal symptoms depersonalisation, tinnitus/whirring noises/ foggy brain, pain in body, anxiety, tum, sleep troubles. 2015 20mg - still trying to stabilise. Link to comment
Flowers Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Just wanted to say and welcome JosieJo! You have been through so much I really hope that the 20 mgs helps you to stabilise. I was interested to see you had used mindfulness to help with WD symptoms. I have just started this yesterday! I know it's going to take a lot of practice but I have a good feeling that it might help me cope a bit better. Flowers xxx 15 yrs on 20 to 30 mgs CITALOPRAM. MAY 2014 Increased to 40 mgs per day.SEPT/NOV 2014 tapered in 6 weeks down to 10 mgs as per Dr instructions due to violent nightmares/palpitations.Given Noctamid (lormetazepam) to help with anxiety. On average took 2mg per day for 8 weeks.No taper was advised.DEC 2014 WD severe. Nervous tic in eyes and limbs, muscle pain,fluct temp, weakness, dep and anxiety, nausea, giddy, unstable when walking. Different Dr suggested taking 20mgs CIT. BROMAZEPAM 3mgs up to 3 x daily for anxiety.DEC 9 2014 Updose CIT to 30mgs. Only taking BROMAZEPAM in emergency.DEC 31 2014 Settling at 30mg CIT - helping with depression. No Brom for 2wks.Found SA.APR 2015 Trying to stabilise on 30mgs CIT. JAN 2016 Started Cit Taper reducing by 5% per month. 28.5 mgs FEB Taper held bereavement. APR Taper resumed 27mgs . MAY 25.50 mgs . JUNE 24 mgs . JULY I stupidly mixed up my BP meds with CIT. Consequently took no CIT for 3 days and doubled my BP meds. Waiting for the fallout....Holding for a while until any chance of repercussions have abated. SEPT taper resumed to 22.5 mgs . OCT 21 mgs .NOV 19.95 mgs DEC crashed. 2017: FEB 3rd updose to 20.5 mgs to try to stabilise.FEB.switched over to 75mgs of Venlafaxine XR for 3 weeks.Too stimulating so switching back to Cit. 12 March 37.5 Ven and 20 Cit. 21 March 18mg Ven 20mg Cit. 4 April 9mg Ven 20mg Cit. Xanax .50mg when needed. 13 April 0 mgs Ven, 20mg Citalopram. Xanax .50 mg per day. 5 May reinstated a small amount of Ven to stabilize 1 mg twice a day. 20 mg Citalopram at night. Xanax .25 mg twice per day.Other Meds: Losartan (BP)Started 1993 at 50 mgs at night. Seretide (Asthma) Started 1996 at 1 puff twice a day. Jan 2019 Antibiotic Ceclor 500mgs twice a day for bronchitis and Atrovent 2ml capsules twice a day for asthma. Finished the course of both Jan 17. XANAX Jan 27 - Feb 3 2019 Failed Valium Crossover. Feb 14 2019 Updosed Xanax by .0625 Feb 17 2019 Decreased Xanax by .0625. Back to .50mg daily. Update Xanax 28.2.20 tapered to .1250 mg 8am .25 mg midnight. Update Xanax 11.8.21 tapered to .25 mg at night. Current Meds 28.2.19: CITALOPRAM 20mg taken at midnight. VENLAFAXINE .9 mg twice a day at 8am and 10pm. XANAX .50 mg split into 4 doses per day. 10am .0625mg / 2pm .1250mg/ 6pm .0625mg / midnight .25mg.Update 10.8.22 .25 mg at night. LOSARTAN 50 mgs taken at midnight. SERETIDE 1 puff taken at 8am and 10pm. 7.7.19 VENLAFAXINE UPDATE: Started tapering 10% every 4 weeks. Currently .4 mg twice a day at 8am and 10 pm. 2.9.19 .36 mg x 2. 1.10.19 .32 mg x 2. 26.11.19 .29 mg x2. 26.12.19 .26 mg x 2. 23.1.20 .23 mg x 2. 20.2.20 .21 mg x2.20.3.20 .19 mg x 2. 21.4.20 .17 mg x 2. 19.5.20 .13 mg x 2. 18.6.20 .11mg x 2 .18.7.20.10 mg x 2.1.9.20.09 mg x 2. 30.9. 20 .08 mg x 2. 1.11.20 .07 mg x 2. 2.12.20 .06 mg x 2. 8.1.21 .05 mg x 2. 4.2.21 .04 mg x 2. 9.3.21 .03 mgx2. 7.4.21 .02 mg x 2. 9.5.21 .01 mg x 2. 21.6.21 .01 mg x 1. 11.8.21 ZERO! Link to comment
JosieJo Posted April 26, 2015 Author Share Posted April 26, 2015 Hi Flowers, well done to you so far on this roller-coaster journey. Personally I cannot recommend Mindfulness meditation highly enough - it literally saved my life. At times it was tough (to sit & observe stuff that comes up & just be with it, non-reacting) but with patience & practice it becomes easier & is now, several years on, part of my life. When I was introduced to it I had a facilitator & someone I could talk to once a week to support me with what did come up. You might want to bear that in mind. And if I can be of any help I will.Xxx Fluoxetine 20mg started 1992 for PMT. 1st Cold Turkey withdrawal 1997 ended at Docs being told I would need to be on 20mg forever. 2003 slower taper 5mg increments. 2004 Clear - severe insomnia, panic attacks, anxiety, disconnected to body apart from severe pain, foggy brain, memory loss. Crying 2005 exhausted, immobile, very ill. 2006 diagnosed M.E./ CFS / Fybromyalgia Clinical Depression GAD - 80mg Fluoxetine. 2011 Down to 30mg 2012 25mg 2013 20mg 2014 15mg Throughout 2011-14 withdrawal symptoms depersonalisation, tinnitus/whirring noises/ foggy brain, pain in body, anxiety, tum, sleep troubles. 2015 20mg - still trying to stabilise. Link to comment
Flowers Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Thanks Josie Jo. I am thrilled that Mindfulness worked so well for you. I am British but live in Spain. I have an old friend who is a qualified therapist/counsellor in the U.K. He has been given me sessions via Skype - not ideal I know but better than nothing! He is counselling me and then giving me techniques & tools to use to get me through any problems. My main one is anxiety about everything!! He also suggested a website called Headspace and is making a tailor made CD for me. I do not understand how this works but I am amazed at the results so far and I am only a beginner. Once I get further into this I am sure I will have lots of questions for you. Take care. Flowers xxx 15 yrs on 20 to 30 mgs CITALOPRAM. MAY 2014 Increased to 40 mgs per day.SEPT/NOV 2014 tapered in 6 weeks down to 10 mgs as per Dr instructions due to violent nightmares/palpitations.Given Noctamid (lormetazepam) to help with anxiety. On average took 2mg per day for 8 weeks.No taper was advised.DEC 2014 WD severe. Nervous tic in eyes and limbs, muscle pain,fluct temp, weakness, dep and anxiety, nausea, giddy, unstable when walking. Different Dr suggested taking 20mgs CIT. BROMAZEPAM 3mgs up to 3 x daily for anxiety.DEC 9 2014 Updose CIT to 30mgs. Only taking BROMAZEPAM in emergency.DEC 31 2014 Settling at 30mg CIT - helping with depression. No Brom for 2wks.Found SA.APR 2015 Trying to stabilise on 30mgs CIT. JAN 2016 Started Cit Taper reducing by 5% per month. 28.5 mgs FEB Taper held bereavement. APR Taper resumed 27mgs . MAY 25.50 mgs . JUNE 24 mgs . JULY I stupidly mixed up my BP meds with CIT. Consequently took no CIT for 3 days and doubled my BP meds. Waiting for the fallout....Holding for a while until any chance of repercussions have abated. SEPT taper resumed to 22.5 mgs . OCT 21 mgs .NOV 19.95 mgs DEC crashed. 2017: FEB 3rd updose to 20.5 mgs to try to stabilise.FEB.switched over to 75mgs of Venlafaxine XR for 3 weeks.Too stimulating so switching back to Cit. 12 March 37.5 Ven and 20 Cit. 21 March 18mg Ven 20mg Cit. 4 April 9mg Ven 20mg Cit. Xanax .50mg when needed. 13 April 0 mgs Ven, 20mg Citalopram. Xanax .50 mg per day. 5 May reinstated a small amount of Ven to stabilize 1 mg twice a day. 20 mg Citalopram at night. Xanax .25 mg twice per day.Other Meds: Losartan (BP)Started 1993 at 50 mgs at night. Seretide (Asthma) Started 1996 at 1 puff twice a day. Jan 2019 Antibiotic Ceclor 500mgs twice a day for bronchitis and Atrovent 2ml capsules twice a day for asthma. Finished the course of both Jan 17. XANAX Jan 27 - Feb 3 2019 Failed Valium Crossover. Feb 14 2019 Updosed Xanax by .0625 Feb 17 2019 Decreased Xanax by .0625. Back to .50mg daily. Update Xanax 28.2.20 tapered to .1250 mg 8am .25 mg midnight. Update Xanax 11.8.21 tapered to .25 mg at night. Current Meds 28.2.19: CITALOPRAM 20mg taken at midnight. VENLAFAXINE .9 mg twice a day at 8am and 10pm. XANAX .50 mg split into 4 doses per day. 10am .0625mg / 2pm .1250mg/ 6pm .0625mg / midnight .25mg.Update 10.8.22 .25 mg at night. LOSARTAN 50 mgs taken at midnight. SERETIDE 1 puff taken at 8am and 10pm. 7.7.19 VENLAFAXINE UPDATE: Started tapering 10% every 4 weeks. Currently .4 mg twice a day at 8am and 10 pm. 2.9.19 .36 mg x 2. 1.10.19 .32 mg x 2. 26.11.19 .29 mg x2. 26.12.19 .26 mg x 2. 23.1.20 .23 mg x 2. 20.2.20 .21 mg x2.20.3.20 .19 mg x 2. 21.4.20 .17 mg x 2. 19.5.20 .13 mg x 2. 18.6.20 .11mg x 2 .18.7.20.10 mg x 2.1.9.20.09 mg x 2. 30.9. 20 .08 mg x 2. 1.11.20 .07 mg x 2. 2.12.20 .06 mg x 2. 8.1.21 .05 mg x 2. 4.2.21 .04 mg x 2. 9.3.21 .03 mgx2. 7.4.21 .02 mg x 2. 9.5.21 .01 mg x 2. 21.6.21 .01 mg x 1. 11.8.21 ZERO! Link to comment
freespirit Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Hi JosieJo, Just wanted to add my welcome to you. It sounds like you've got some great self-care practices in place. I'm exploring the histamine issue, since developing problems when I went off the meds. The links that Jlynn shared are good ones. I've just started reading more from the low histamine chef, who is named on both links. Other sites recommend solely a reduction of histamine, which I'm coming to understand is not enough. I have no expertise in this, more trial and error with my own body..but am happy to answer any questions that I can. Remeron for depression. Started at 7.5 mg. in 2005. Gradual increases over 8 years, up to 45 mg. in 2012.Began tapering in June 2013. Went from 45 to 30 mg in the first 3-4 months. Held for a couple of months.Started tapering by 3.75 mg every month or 2, with some longer holding periods. Eventually went down to 3.75 mg. about April 2014. Stopped taking Remeron August 2014. Developed issues with histamine a week after stopping--symptoms reduced through diet and a few supplements. Currently having issues with a few foods. Most of the histamine intolerance has resolved or is at least, in remission. Current Medications: Current Supplements: Cannabis (CBD and THC), Vitamin C, D, Quercetin, CoQ10, Tart Cherry, Probiotic, Phytoplankton oil, magnesium, Methyl B. What has helped me most: spending time in nature, qi gong, exercise, healthy diet, meditation, IV vitamins, homeopathy, massage, acupuncture, chiropractic, music, and cuddling my cats.. My introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8459-mirtazapine-withdrawal-freespirit/#entry144282 Please note: I am not a therapist or medical practitioner. Any suggestions offered come solely from my personal experience in recovering from childhood trauma, therapy, and AD use. Please seek appropriate care for yourself. “After a cruel childhood, one must reinvent oneself. Then re-imagine the world.” ― Mary Oliver Link to comment
JosieJo Posted April 27, 2015 Author Share Posted April 27, 2015 Hello Free Spirit, thank you for your encouragement & introduction. I have read a lot about Histamine but the jury's out now with this as I just read : "Fluoxetine does not interact directly with postsynaptic serotonin receptors, muscarinic-cholinergic receptors, histaminergic receptors, or alpha-adrenergic receptors. It does not appear to cause downregulation of postsynaptic beta-adrenergic receptors or a decrease in beta-adrenergic–stimulated cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP) generation as do older antidepressants".... And so I'm not sure what to think?? Maybe someone else has studied it further & could enlighten me but I guess after all I have been through I am becoming very sceptical or maybe what works for one is totally different for another. It sometimes feels like its such a lonely journey because most of the time its trial & error (lots of error!) but at least on this site I can feel less alone & very understood. Fluoxetine 20mg started 1992 for PMT. 1st Cold Turkey withdrawal 1997 ended at Docs being told I would need to be on 20mg forever. 2003 slower taper 5mg increments. 2004 Clear - severe insomnia, panic attacks, anxiety, disconnected to body apart from severe pain, foggy brain, memory loss. Crying 2005 exhausted, immobile, very ill. 2006 diagnosed M.E./ CFS / Fybromyalgia Clinical Depression GAD - 80mg Fluoxetine. 2011 Down to 30mg 2012 25mg 2013 20mg 2014 15mg Throughout 2011-14 withdrawal symptoms depersonalisation, tinnitus/whirring noises/ foggy brain, pain in body, anxiety, tum, sleep troubles. 2015 20mg - still trying to stabilise. Link to comment
freespirit Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I've commonly seen prozac on the list of meds that contribute to histamine issues. The thing is, that many of these drugs deplete the enzyme DAO, which helps us to digest histamine. I've read some things that suggest AD affect gut bacteria, which can also be a factor in whether we can deal with histamine properly. Stress itself can trigger histamine release. So to me, these drugs create a kind of perfect storm for developing HI. I think everyone is different, making choices very individual. I was also on pariet to reduce stomach acid, and nasonex for allergies. In all likelihood, these things contributed..as I came off them around the same time as well. But I can look back over my life and see that some of the unexplained symptoms I had were probably issues with histamine..including my fibromyalgia diagnosis. The key for me was that when I stopped eating a lot of higher histamine foods, many of the physical symptoms reduced or went away entirely--migraines, severe muscle/joint pain, brain fog, buzzing through my body, numbness and tingling in hands and feet, vertigo, nausea, digestive issues, nasal allergy symptoms, asthma, hives, and some of the sleep issues. This told me I was on the right track. I'm a skeptic as well on many counts. But also a pragmatist...I will do whatever works. What I felt was that a willingness to try things (within reason) to see if I could improve the wd effects. I really can't do many supplements, so had to find other options. By the way, meditation can be key to reducing stress and lessening histamine symptoms..along with many other benefits of course. Have you looked at beyond meds posts on HI? Remeron for depression. Started at 7.5 mg. in 2005. Gradual increases over 8 years, up to 45 mg. in 2012.Began tapering in June 2013. Went from 45 to 30 mg in the first 3-4 months. Held for a couple of months.Started tapering by 3.75 mg every month or 2, with some longer holding periods. Eventually went down to 3.75 mg. about April 2014. Stopped taking Remeron August 2014. Developed issues with histamine a week after stopping--symptoms reduced through diet and a few supplements. Currently having issues with a few foods. Most of the histamine intolerance has resolved or is at least, in remission. Current Medications: Current Supplements: Cannabis (CBD and THC), Vitamin C, D, Quercetin, CoQ10, Tart Cherry, Probiotic, Phytoplankton oil, magnesium, Methyl B. What has helped me most: spending time in nature, qi gong, exercise, healthy diet, meditation, IV vitamins, homeopathy, massage, acupuncture, chiropractic, music, and cuddling my cats.. My introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8459-mirtazapine-withdrawal-freespirit/#entry144282 Please note: I am not a therapist or medical practitioner. Any suggestions offered come solely from my personal experience in recovering from childhood trauma, therapy, and AD use. Please seek appropriate care for yourself. “After a cruel childhood, one must reinvent oneself. Then re-imagine the world.” ― Mary Oliver Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted April 28, 2015 Administrator Share Posted April 28, 2015 Welcome, JosieJo. The relation of histamine issues to SSRIs or withdrawal syndrome is unclear. What we know is that withdrawal syndrome is a symptom of a hypersensitized nervous system. This, I suppose, could make histamine-related symptoms feel worse. Alternative and integrative practitioners are talking a lot now about histamine issues. However, I am dubious they are doing accurate testing and effective treatment. For almost a year, I have been dealing with histamine food intolerance (brought on by gut damage from aspirin) and diet is the primary solution for it. If you look in the Symptoms and Self-Care forum, you will see people with nervous systems sensitized by withdrawal having a great deal of difficulty with some antibiotics, which seem to set off or exacerbate nervous system destabilization (which is what withdrawal symptoms are). Also please see our topic about tapering Prozac Tips for tapering off Prozac (fluoxetine) It sounds like you need to get your general health in order. Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, seehttp://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/ This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
JosieJo Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 Many thanks Free Spirit & Altostrata for your very informative posts. I hear what you are saying & wouldn't dismiss anything out of hand. Over the years I have listened to my body & have changed my diet accordingly - I am now a Gluten, alcohol, caffeine and pickle/preservative Free Vegan!! I am not able to take Fish oil so found an alternative Called Opti3 ( Microalgal EPA/DHA/Omega 3 for Vegans. I also take Mega-Mag liquid Magnesium (this & Valerian really helps me drop off to sleep) I don't take antibiotics as they really don't agree with me. And I don't take pain relievers unless I am in absolute agony (Mindfulness Meditation has helped with this). I take supplements & herbal tinctures that I feel are right for my body, do some form of exercise everyday (even if its just a walk with Nature) and generally do the best I can for where I am. Altostrata you mention I need to get my general health in order & I would really appreciate any other input you may have. Thank you for your time & trouble. Fluoxetine 20mg started 1992 for PMT. 1st Cold Turkey withdrawal 1997 ended at Docs being told I would need to be on 20mg forever. 2003 slower taper 5mg increments. 2004 Clear - severe insomnia, panic attacks, anxiety, disconnected to body apart from severe pain, foggy brain, memory loss. Crying 2005 exhausted, immobile, very ill. 2006 diagnosed M.E./ CFS / Fybromyalgia Clinical Depression GAD - 80mg Fluoxetine. 2011 Down to 30mg 2012 25mg 2013 20mg 2014 15mg Throughout 2011-14 withdrawal symptoms depersonalisation, tinnitus/whirring noises/ foggy brain, pain in body, anxiety, tum, sleep troubles. 2015 20mg - still trying to stabilise. Link to comment
freespirit Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Many thanks Free Spirit & Altostrata for your very informative posts. I hear what you are saying & wouldn't dismiss anything out of hand. Over the years I have listened to my body & have changed my diet accordingly - I am now a Gluten, alcohol, caffeine and pickle/preservative Free Vegan!! I am not able to take Fish oil so found an alternative Called Opti3 ( Microalgal EPA/DHA/Omega 3 for Vegans. I also take Mega-Mag liquid Magnesium (this & Valerian really helps me drop off to sleep) I don't take antibiotics as they really don't agree with me. And I don't take pain relievers unless I am in absolute agony (Mindfulness Meditation has helped with this). I take supplements & herbal tinctures that I feel are right for my body, do some form of exercise everyday (even if its just a walk with Nature) and generally do the best I can for where I am. Altostrata you mention I need to get my general health in order & I would really appreciate any other input you may have. Thank you for your time & trouble. Your approach to your health and well being sounds very wise. I've also found the best thing is listening to what my body wants and following that. There are many individual variations in things..more than is recognized I think. Remeron for depression. Started at 7.5 mg. in 2005. Gradual increases over 8 years, up to 45 mg. in 2012.Began tapering in June 2013. Went from 45 to 30 mg in the first 3-4 months. Held for a couple of months.Started tapering by 3.75 mg every month or 2, with some longer holding periods. Eventually went down to 3.75 mg. about April 2014. Stopped taking Remeron August 2014. Developed issues with histamine a week after stopping--symptoms reduced through diet and a few supplements. Currently having issues with a few foods. Most of the histamine intolerance has resolved or is at least, in remission. Current Medications: Current Supplements: Cannabis (CBD and THC), Vitamin C, D, Quercetin, CoQ10, Tart Cherry, Probiotic, Phytoplankton oil, magnesium, Methyl B. What has helped me most: spending time in nature, qi gong, exercise, healthy diet, meditation, IV vitamins, homeopathy, massage, acupuncture, chiropractic, music, and cuddling my cats.. My introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8459-mirtazapine-withdrawal-freespirit/#entry144282 Please note: I am not a therapist or medical practitioner. Any suggestions offered come solely from my personal experience in recovering from childhood trauma, therapy, and AD use. Please seek appropriate care for yourself. “After a cruel childhood, one must reinvent oneself. Then re-imagine the world.” ― Mary Oliver Link to comment
freespirit Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 The relation of histamine issues to SSRIs or withdrawal syndrome is unclear. What we know is that withdrawal syndrome is a symptom of a hypersensitized nervous system. This, I suppose, could make histamine-related symptoms feel worse. Alternative and integrative practitioners are talking a lot now about histamine issues. However, I am dubious they are doing accurate testing and effective treatment. For almost a year, I have been dealing with histamine food intolerance (brought on by gut damage from aspirin) and diet is the primary solution for it. It doesn't really matter to me what the role of histamine is in relation to WD...although it is known that histamine is significant to functioning of the nervous system, from everything to circadian rhythm to the gut. What matters to me most is finding what helps. I agree that diet seems to be key..but things like meditation, qi gong, and a simple probiotic have also proved helpful for me. I prefer using different approaches to health, including spiritual practice. Practitioners, alternative and traditional, will do whatever they do...based on a variety of motivations. Just to be clear, I was never "diagnosed" with histamine intolerance--I came to it myself through research. I hold the histamine issue very loosely, as I do anything. My naturopath does not believe in testing, does not diagnose (he is not a fan of labels) and has only given 1 supplement in 4 years (probiotic). We work together; he's interested in finding ways to support what I'm already doing. Homeopathy, vitamin infusion (Meyer's cocktail) and bodywork for the meridians have been what we've done..and all have proved helpful before and after wd. He trusts and respects the knowledge I have of my own body and I trust his wisdom and humility. He is not by any means, a typical practitioner or naturopath. Remeron for depression. Started at 7.5 mg. in 2005. Gradual increases over 8 years, up to 45 mg. in 2012.Began tapering in June 2013. Went from 45 to 30 mg in the first 3-4 months. Held for a couple of months.Started tapering by 3.75 mg every month or 2, with some longer holding periods. Eventually went down to 3.75 mg. about April 2014. Stopped taking Remeron August 2014. Developed issues with histamine a week after stopping--symptoms reduced through diet and a few supplements. Currently having issues with a few foods. Most of the histamine intolerance has resolved or is at least, in remission. Current Medications: Current Supplements: Cannabis (CBD and THC), Vitamin C, D, Quercetin, CoQ10, Tart Cherry, Probiotic, Phytoplankton oil, magnesium, Methyl B. What has helped me most: spending time in nature, qi gong, exercise, healthy diet, meditation, IV vitamins, homeopathy, massage, acupuncture, chiropractic, music, and cuddling my cats.. My introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8459-mirtazapine-withdrawal-freespirit/#entry144282 Please note: I am not a therapist or medical practitioner. Any suggestions offered come solely from my personal experience in recovering from childhood trauma, therapy, and AD use. Please seek appropriate care for yourself. “After a cruel childhood, one must reinvent oneself. Then re-imagine the world.” ― Mary Oliver Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted April 29, 2015 Administrator Share Posted April 29, 2015 Sounds like you're taking care of yourself, JJ. See the Symptoms and Self-Care forum for suggestions. If you have a very serious case of histamine food intolerance, it can take at least 6 months to stabilize. There is an antihistamine called ketotifen that can be helpful. But in the UK, you might be able to find a specialist to talk to. Here in the US, everyone with histamine intolerance is self-diagnosed -- doctors don't know what it is. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
JosieJo Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 Free Spirit (Love that) - I like the sound of your Natropath - and you come across as very self aware & in tune. I have found one of the most positive things to come out of this whole withdrawal experience has been listening to my body & letting it guide me. I have also discovered the hard way that not all "professionals" know what's best for me. To trust in an intelligence far greater than any human, whilst knowing we are a part of this. Many more variables are in play than we could ever imagine when it comes to our body/mind. To live in the moment. What will be, will be. To not push but be patient, it will come if & when its meant. To ask the Universe for an answer & then to be open to the may ways the answer will be given. To remember "this too shall pass". Laughter feels fantastic. Mother Nature is generous & awesome (deserves reverence, appreciation & taking care of).... I could go on but you get the picture!! Same as you, Free spirit being spiritual!! Fluoxetine 20mg started 1992 for PMT. 1st Cold Turkey withdrawal 1997 ended at Docs being told I would need to be on 20mg forever. 2003 slower taper 5mg increments. 2004 Clear - severe insomnia, panic attacks, anxiety, disconnected to body apart from severe pain, foggy brain, memory loss. Crying 2005 exhausted, immobile, very ill. 2006 diagnosed M.E./ CFS / Fybromyalgia Clinical Depression GAD - 80mg Fluoxetine. 2011 Down to 30mg 2012 25mg 2013 20mg 2014 15mg Throughout 2011-14 withdrawal symptoms depersonalisation, tinnitus/whirring noises/ foggy brain, pain in body, anxiety, tum, sleep troubles. 2015 20mg - still trying to stabilise. Link to comment
freespirit Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Beautifully said JJ! I was going to apologize for hijacking your thread..sorry about that. I too, feel so strongly about trusting myself and working only with those who can and will respect that..and for me, this has been a huge part of my journey back. Remeron for depression. Started at 7.5 mg. in 2005. Gradual increases over 8 years, up to 45 mg. in 2012.Began tapering in June 2013. Went from 45 to 30 mg in the first 3-4 months. Held for a couple of months.Started tapering by 3.75 mg every month or 2, with some longer holding periods. Eventually went down to 3.75 mg. about April 2014. Stopped taking Remeron August 2014. Developed issues with histamine a week after stopping--symptoms reduced through diet and a few supplements. Currently having issues with a few foods. Most of the histamine intolerance has resolved or is at least, in remission. Current Medications: Current Supplements: Cannabis (CBD and THC), Vitamin C, D, Quercetin, CoQ10, Tart Cherry, Probiotic, Phytoplankton oil, magnesium, Methyl B. What has helped me most: spending time in nature, qi gong, exercise, healthy diet, meditation, IV vitamins, homeopathy, massage, acupuncture, chiropractic, music, and cuddling my cats.. My introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8459-mirtazapine-withdrawal-freespirit/#entry144282 Please note: I am not a therapist or medical practitioner. Any suggestions offered come solely from my personal experience in recovering from childhood trauma, therapy, and AD use. Please seek appropriate care for yourself. “After a cruel childhood, one must reinvent oneself. Then re-imagine the world.” ― Mary Oliver Link to comment
JosieJo Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 No need to apologise, I really appreciated all you shared. Thank you. Fluoxetine 20mg started 1992 for PMT. 1st Cold Turkey withdrawal 1997 ended at Docs being told I would need to be on 20mg forever. 2003 slower taper 5mg increments. 2004 Clear - severe insomnia, panic attacks, anxiety, disconnected to body apart from severe pain, foggy brain, memory loss. Crying 2005 exhausted, immobile, very ill. 2006 diagnosed M.E./ CFS / Fybromyalgia Clinical Depression GAD - 80mg Fluoxetine. 2011 Down to 30mg 2012 25mg 2013 20mg 2014 15mg Throughout 2011-14 withdrawal symptoms depersonalisation, tinnitus/whirring noises/ foggy brain, pain in body, anxiety, tum, sleep troubles. 2015 20mg - still trying to stabilise. Link to comment
JosieJo Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 Thank you Altostrata - I can imagine how busy you must be & was very grateful for the time you gave in answering my posts. Fluoxetine 20mg started 1992 for PMT. 1st Cold Turkey withdrawal 1997 ended at Docs being told I would need to be on 20mg forever. 2003 slower taper 5mg increments. 2004 Clear - severe insomnia, panic attacks, anxiety, disconnected to body apart from severe pain, foggy brain, memory loss. Crying 2005 exhausted, immobile, very ill. 2006 diagnosed M.E./ CFS / Fybromyalgia Clinical Depression GAD - 80mg Fluoxetine. 2011 Down to 30mg 2012 25mg 2013 20mg 2014 15mg Throughout 2011-14 withdrawal symptoms depersonalisation, tinnitus/whirring noises/ foggy brain, pain in body, anxiety, tum, sleep troubles. 2015 20mg - still trying to stabilise. Link to comment
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