Juventus17 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) I'm a 22 year old male. I was originally admitted into a psychiatric ward and put on paxil when I was 14 and diagnosed with panic disorder. I was seeing a therapist every week and my anxiety would be pretty stable most of the year with a few bouts of extreme anxiety here and there. I didn't like the idea of being on an antidepressant so I tapered off my senior year of high school in 2010 when I was 17. I was off of antidepressants and felt great for 9 months until I started taking accutane. I had horrible side effects on accutane and had a complete anxious breakdown during the holidays in 2010. They put me back on paxil after visiting the psych er. I eventually got back to normal but I still would get terrible spells of anxiety which lasted weeks. When I get anxiety, it gets worse and worse. I start to break down, not want to do anything, completely lose my appetite, etc. I cry for no reason. I just feel completely helpless. After being admitted again 2 years ago, they switched me from paxil to lexapro. At this time, I lost about 25 lbs from the intense anxiety which led me to be very down. (Some would say depressed) I personally didn't want to be on any antidepressant but the doctors weren't having it. By the way I forgot to mention, I was given klonopin a few times throughout the last 4 years temporarily which I only took a few times and stopped due to the absolute paranoia of developing a tolerance or addiction (although I don't have an addictive personality. I actually hate pills) I was always able to easily get off the klonopin because I would never take it longer than a few weeks. I've decided I want to get off lexapro and any antidepressant for too I feel like they barely help, if even that. I don't like the sexual side effects either especially since I'm 22. In January I went from 20mg of lexapro to 10mg with just about no problems or withdrawals. Then about a week ago I went down from 10 to 5mg. Then 3 days later I started feeling weird. Then it just got worse until I finally woke up feeling extremely anxious and so fearful of hitting rock bottom again. Should I continue with the 5mg or go back to 10mg? Can I take anything to help me through the withdrawal like the klonopin I have saved for emergencies? I was prescribed 45 in September to take as needed up to 3 times a day. Its May and I still have about 30 pills left? Please any help?!! Edited May 15, 2015 by Altostrata added paragraph breaks Paxil: March 2007 - February 2010 January 2011 - September 2013 Accutane: November 2010 - December 2010 Lexapro: September 2013 - present (20mg until Jan 2015 went straight to 10mg with no problems May 2015 went to 5mg and started feeling anxiety a few days later and just got worse. Reinstated back to 10mg a few days after trying to tough out the withdrawal. No improvements into June and was upped to 15mg. Still no improvements. Actually worse than ever.) Klonopin: Occasional/temporary use between starting Lexapro. Never took longer than 2 or 3 weeks. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted May 15, 2015 Administrator Share Posted May 15, 2015 Welcome, Juventus17. Accutane is well-known for causing adverse effects that might be mistaken for psychiatric symptoms. Your decrease from 10mg to 5mg was too much. If I were you, I'd immediately updose to 10mg Lexapro and stabilize for a month or more. See What is withdrawal syndrome? Why taper by 10% of my dosage? Tips for tapering off Lexapro (escitalopram) This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Juventus17 Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 Thank you How come I had no problem going from 20 to 10? Paxil: March 2007 - February 2010 January 2011 - September 2013 Accutane: November 2010 - December 2010 Lexapro: September 2013 - present (20mg until Jan 2015 went straight to 10mg with no problems May 2015 went to 5mg and started feeling anxiety a few days later and just got worse. Reinstated back to 10mg a few days after trying to tough out the withdrawal. No improvements into June and was upped to 15mg. Still no improvements. Actually worse than ever.) Klonopin: Occasional/temporary use between starting Lexapro. Never took longer than 2 or 3 weeks. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted May 16, 2015 Administrator Share Posted May 16, 2015 Why taper? Paper demonstrates importance of gradual change in plasma concentration This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Juventus17 Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 Anybody? I don't get why I had no problem with my first 50% decrease of 20 to 10mg but am now having trouble with my 10 to 5 mg drop. Is it in my head? I'm having terrible anxiety and have missed work because of it. Paxil: March 2007 - February 2010 January 2011 - September 2013 Accutane: November 2010 - December 2010 Lexapro: September 2013 - present (20mg until Jan 2015 went straight to 10mg with no problems May 2015 went to 5mg and started feeling anxiety a few days later and just got worse. Reinstated back to 10mg a few days after trying to tough out the withdrawal. No improvements into June and was upped to 15mg. Still no improvements. Actually worse than ever.) Klonopin: Occasional/temporary use between starting Lexapro. Never took longer than 2 or 3 weeks. Link to comment
nz11 Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Hi Juventus. This is a good question. Unless you know a little about maths its a bit hard to explain. Did you look at the links Alto gave you? To try to put this into a crude analogy..... you are in a running race buts its an obstacle course over 1 mile. However the race organiser does not want you to finish and leave the field as a result he has decided for reasons known only to himself to put few obstacles in the first half of the course and has loaded the obstacles into the second half of the race, with an increase in weighting as you approach the finish line. As a result you cannot travel the second half of the race at the same speed, the further you go the slower you must go...and the more carefully you must go. Also the raceorganiser is a nasty piece of work he placed hidden detachable fishhooks in the 2 or 3 obstacles in the first half of the course you may not be aware you have them on you until further down the track. Mathematically speaking tapering must follow a decreasing geometric progression not a decreasing arithmetic progression...dem the rules! I agree go back to the halfway point get your breath back and then proceed carefully and slowly ..using the rules given to you formulated by others who have managed to leave the field ! Note: there are no short cuts and there is no timekeeper. Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted May 16, 2015 Administrator Share Posted May 16, 2015 You were taking an over-saturation of the drug. When you reduced it by half, there was still enough for your nervous system not to notice. When you reduced it further, your nervous system could feel it. Please read the links we give you. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Juventus17 Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 Ok I started 5 a week ago. Should I go back up to 10 or continue the 5 and endure the anxiety and if the anxiety gets really bad I'll take a klonopin? I really don't want to be on them anymore. How do you feel about the Prozac method? Paxil: March 2007 - February 2010 January 2011 - September 2013 Accutane: November 2010 - December 2010 Lexapro: September 2013 - present (20mg until Jan 2015 went straight to 10mg with no problems May 2015 went to 5mg and started feeling anxiety a few days later and just got worse. Reinstated back to 10mg a few days after trying to tough out the withdrawal. No improvements into June and was upped to 15mg. Still no improvements. Actually worse than ever.) Klonopin: Occasional/temporary use between starting Lexapro. Never took longer than 2 or 3 weeks. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Petunia Posted May 17, 2015 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 17, 2015 Your decrease from 10mg to 5mg was too much. If I were you, I'd immediately updose to 10mg Lexapro and stabilize for a month or more. I'm not a doctor. My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one. My Introduction Thread Full Drug and Withdrawal History Brief Summary Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects 2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010 Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal) May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins. Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens. Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days. April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close. VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from? VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made? VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes? VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects? VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes Link to comment
Juventus17 Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 Even though its been a week? That won't cause any problems? I'm sorry I'm being so paranoid. Paxil: March 2007 - February 2010 January 2011 - September 2013 Accutane: November 2010 - December 2010 Lexapro: September 2013 - present (20mg until Jan 2015 went straight to 10mg with no problems May 2015 went to 5mg and started feeling anxiety a few days later and just got worse. Reinstated back to 10mg a few days after trying to tough out the withdrawal. No improvements into June and was upped to 15mg. Still no improvements. Actually worse than ever.) Klonopin: Occasional/temporary use between starting Lexapro. Never took longer than 2 or 3 weeks. Link to comment
Juventus17 Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 I'm a 22 year old male. I was originally admitted into a psychiatric ward and put on paxil when I was 14 and diagnosed with panic disorder. I was seeing a therapist every week and my anxiety would be pretty stable most of the year with a few bouts of extreme anxiety here and there. I didn't like the idea of being on an antidepressant so I tapered off my senior year of high school in 2010 when I was 17. I was off of antidepressants and felt great for 9 months until I started taking accutane. I had horrible side effects on accutane and had a complete anxious breakdown during the holidays in 2010. They put me back on paxil after visiting the psych er. I eventually got back to normal but I still would get terrible spells of anxiety which lasted weeks. When I get anxiety, it gets worse and worse. I start to break down, not want to do anything, completely lose my appetite, etc. I cry for no reason. I just feel completely helpless. After being admitted again 2 years ago, they switched me from paxil to lexapro. At this time, I lost about 25 lbs from the intense anxiety which led me to be very down. (Some would say depressed) I personally didn't want to be on any antidepressant but the doctors weren't having it. By the way I forgot to mention, I was given klonopin a few times throughout the last 4 years temporarily which I only took a few times and stopped due to the absolute paranoia of developing a tolerance or addiction (although I don't have an addictive personality. I actually hate pills) I was always able to easily get off the klonopin because I would never take it longer than a few weeks. I've decided I want to get off lexapro and any antidepressant for too I feel like they barely help, if even that. I don't like the sexual side effects either especially since I'm 22. In January I went from 20mg of lexapro to 10mg with just about no problems or withdrawals. Then about a week ago I went down from 10 to 5mg. Then 3 days later I started feeling weird. Then it just got worse until I finally woke up feeling extremely anxious and so fearful of hitting rock bottom again. Should I continue with the 5mg or go back to 10mg? Can I take anything to help me through the withdrawal like the klonopin I have saved for emergencies? I was prescribed 45 in September to take as needed up to 3 times a day. Its May and I still have about 30 pills left? Please any help?!! Paxil: March 2007 - February 2010 January 2011 - September 2013 Accutane: November 2010 - December 2010 Lexapro: September 2013 - present (20mg until Jan 2015 went straight to 10mg with no problems May 2015 went to 5mg and started feeling anxiety a few days later and just got worse. Reinstated back to 10mg a few days after trying to tough out the withdrawal. No improvements into June and was upped to 15mg. Still no improvements. Actually worse than ever.) Klonopin: Occasional/temporary use between starting Lexapro. Never took longer than 2 or 3 weeks. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted May 17, 2015 Administrator Share Posted May 17, 2015 Juventus, your Intro topic is here. Bookmark it or click Follow this Topic on the upper right of the page to keep track of it. Please put your questions about your Lexapro taper and your updates in this topic, as a type of journal. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Juventus17 Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 Ok thanks. I have a question. Is there a possibility I have brain damage from SSRIs since I've been on them since I was 14? Has my development been altered/damaged? Can my brain ever recover from the antidepressants or will I always have problems even after discontinuation? If that's the case I rather be dead because there's no way I want to ever be antidepressants any longer. BTW I just went back up to 10 like you said. Still feeling anxious, sad, and wanting to cry for no reason. Paxil: March 2007 - February 2010 January 2011 - September 2013 Accutane: November 2010 - December 2010 Lexapro: September 2013 - present (20mg until Jan 2015 went straight to 10mg with no problems May 2015 went to 5mg and started feeling anxiety a few days later and just got worse. Reinstated back to 10mg a few days after trying to tough out the withdrawal. No improvements into June and was upped to 15mg. Still no improvements. Actually worse than ever.) Klonopin: Occasional/temporary use between starting Lexapro. Never took longer than 2 or 3 weeks. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted May 17, 2015 Administrator Share Posted May 17, 2015 Your brain and nervous system have accommodated themselves to the drugs, but they are not damaged. They can adjust to life without them, but your tapering will have to be very gradual to allow your nervous system to adjust. You are having typical withdrawal symptoms. See Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Juventus17 Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 Should I take the klonopin when the anxiety gets overwhelming as needed? I actually took it at work today because I felt I had to or I was going to start freaking out and have to leave. It helped me somewhat but only for a really short time. I have .5mg tablets. I really don't want to take another one even though I'm allowed up to 3 daily. This is from my prescription from last September unrelated to my current situation. Paxil: March 2007 - February 2010 January 2011 - September 2013 Accutane: November 2010 - December 2010 Lexapro: September 2013 - present (20mg until Jan 2015 went straight to 10mg with no problems May 2015 went to 5mg and started feeling anxiety a few days later and just got worse. Reinstated back to 10mg a few days after trying to tough out the withdrawal. No improvements into June and was upped to 15mg. Still no improvements. Actually worse than ever.) Klonopin: Occasional/temporary use between starting Lexapro. Never took longer than 2 or 3 weeks. Link to comment
Juventus17 Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 It seems my situation isn't really important here. I'm feeling horrible and want to die for ever being put on antidepressants. I'm only 22 and I feel that my brain is damaged and will continue this pain and misery for the rest of my life. After reading some articles from mad in america and others, I am convinced I will never recover. I can't afford to lose my job. I really don't know what to do. Paxil: March 2007 - February 2010 January 2011 - September 2013 Accutane: November 2010 - December 2010 Lexapro: September 2013 - present (20mg until Jan 2015 went straight to 10mg with no problems May 2015 went to 5mg and started feeling anxiety a few days later and just got worse. Reinstated back to 10mg a few days after trying to tough out the withdrawal. No improvements into June and was upped to 15mg. Still no improvements. Actually worse than ever.) Klonopin: Occasional/temporary use between starting Lexapro. Never took longer than 2 or 3 weeks. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted May 18, 2015 Administrator Share Posted May 18, 2015 You are suffering withdrawal syndrome from dropping from 10mg to 5mg. Your decrease from 10mg to 5mg was too much. If I were you, I'd immediately updose to 10mg Lexapro and stabilize for a month or more. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
nz11 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Juventus i am sorry you are going through this..i would like to tell you that Breggin (2013) says, "Children and teenagers are most likely to experience a complete clinical recovery after termination of the medication." Yes i know you are 22 and not 19 but there is not a lot of difference. You are young and your body will recover. It is just going to take time. Personally i would fight really hard to resist the klonopin. These anxiety type symptoms will pass if you just relax and accept it as how wdl is. They will not harm you despite there scaryness. They may go on for some time but if you panic every time one arrives and reach for something to swallow you will trigger a second drug addiction. I found trying to distract myself from it helped. Even making oneself talk to a work coleague about last weeks sports game can distract the brain from its endless ruminations. imo. Its not easy i know. Rest assured your situation is important and i doubt very much whether you would get such expert empathic unconditional positive regard and help from any where else including the medical profession, however there are many who need help getting out from under the weight of these drugs and the volunteer mods can only get to so many people at a time. I am sure they probably have jobs too. Be patient and hang in there. Hope you stabilize soon. Wishing you strength. Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus mammaP Posted May 18, 2015 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 18, 2015 You will recover Juventus, but it will take time. It will take a few days for your brain to register the change. It is only one week and you will get back on track. You were fine for a few months on 10mg and will be fine again. Please don't get into taking the klonopin as you will become addicted quite quickly then have to taper that too as Nz11 pointed out. It is not because of an addictive personality that people become addicted, it is because all psychotropic drugs change the way the brain works. It doesn't take very long for the brain to become dependent on them, particularly benzos such as klonopin. Your symptoms should settle down very soon. You are still young and your brain will adapt to being without the lexapro but ONLY if you taper it very slowly so that your brain can adapt to the lower doses as you taper. It is sneaking the drug away from the brain so it doesn't notice. If you are impatient and try to rush it you will have the same symptoms you have now for a long time while your brain recovers. You will get your brain back and will not believe how good it is because you have never experienced a healthy adult brain! Try not to panic, and treat this as a temporary illness like the flu until the updose works. You can't change it, your body has to do the work, in this case the brain, and it will. You just need to help it along with good food, gentle exercise and distractions, to help to take the focus off the awful symptoms. Here is our mod Rhianna's explanation of growing a new brain, it might help you to understand. Rhi on how drugs change our brains/regowing a new brain through tapering A lot of people, including healthcare practitioners; in fact, I guess, most people-- are operating from entirely the wrong paradigm, or way of thinking, about these meds. They're thinking of them like aspirin--as something that has an effect when it's in your system, and then when it gets out of your system the effect goes away. That's not what happens with medications that alter neurotransmitter function, we are learning.What happens when you change the chemistry of the brain is, the brain adjusts its chemistry and structure to try to return to homeostasis, or biochemical and functional balance. It tries to restabilize the chemistry. For example: SSRI antidepressants work as "serotonin reuptake inhibitors." That is, they cause serotonin to remain in the space between neurons, rather than being taken back up into the cells to be re-used, like it would be in a normal healthy nondrugged brain.So the brain, which wants to re-establish normal signaling and function, adapts to the higher level of serotonin between neurons (in the "synapse", the space between neurons where signals get passed along). It does this by removing serotonin receptors, so that the signal is reduced and changed to something closer to normal. It also decreases the amount of serotonin it produces overall. To do that, genes have to be turned on and off; new proteins have to be made; whole cascades of chemical reactions have to be changed, which means turning on and off OTHER genes; cells are destroyed, new cells are made; in other words, a complex physiologic remodeling takes place. This takes place over time. The brain does not grow and change rapidly. This is a vast oversimplification of the amount of adaptation that takes place in the brain when we change its normal chemistry, but that's the principle.When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay.When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse.SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long. With multiple drugs and a history of drug changes and cold turkeys, all of this becomes even more complicated. And if a person is started on these kinds of drugs at an early age before the brain has ever completely established normal mature functioning--well, it can't be good. (All of which is why I recommend an extremely slow taper particularly to anyone with a multiple drug history, a history of many years on meds, a history of past cold turkeys or frequent med changes, and a history of being put on drugs at a young age.)This isn't intended to scare people, but hopefully to give you some idea of what's happening, and to help you respect and understand the process so you can work with it; ALSO, because you are likely to encounter many, many people who still believe these drugs work kind of like aspirin, or a glass of wine, and all you need to do is stop and get it out of your system. Now you can explain to them that no, getting it out of your system is not the issue; the issue is, you need to regrow or at least remodel your brain. This is a long, slow, very poorly understood process, and it needs to be respected. **I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge. Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem) 1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat 2002 effexor. Tapered March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads. Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013 Restarted taper Nov 2013 OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015 Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014 Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg July 2017 30mg. May 15 2018 25mg Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33 Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible Link to comment
Juventus17 Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 Thank you both for your very caring responses. I have been feeling so anxious that I had to call out of work today. I have no motivation to do anything including shower. I get these bouts of anxiety every now and then and it all goes downhill from there. I don't have an appetite. I cry. I just want to dissapear. Could barely sleep through the night. I effectively got off paxil without many problems back when I was 17 so I don't understand why I had such a bad reaction from 10 to 5 of lexapro even though I did a 50% decrease a few months ago (20 to 10) with little to no problems. As far as the klonopin goes, I hate taking it. The first time I was prescribed it was 2 or 3 years ago while I was transitioning to lexapro from paxil. I never took it for more than 2 or 3 weeks and never had a problem coming off of them. The last time I was prescribed them was September of last year when I was struck with another bout of debilitating anxiety for an unknown reason. I was given a prescription of 45 pills as needed up to 3 times daily. Its now the middle of May and I still have around 30 pills. I took it yesterday when I was at work because I felt so on edge but it barely did anything so now I just refuse to take it. My mother and other people tell me I should just take it for now but I really don't want to. Today's my second day back on 10mg of lexapro after being on 5 for a little over a week. Paxil: March 2007 - February 2010 January 2011 - September 2013 Accutane: November 2010 - December 2010 Lexapro: September 2013 - present (20mg until Jan 2015 went straight to 10mg with no problems May 2015 went to 5mg and started feeling anxiety a few days later and just got worse. Reinstated back to 10mg a few days after trying to tough out the withdrawal. No improvements into June and was upped to 15mg. Still no improvements. Actually worse than ever.) Klonopin: Occasional/temporary use between starting Lexapro. Never took longer than 2 or 3 weeks. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted May 18, 2015 Administrator Share Posted May 18, 2015 It will take at least 4 days for your system to register the dosage increase. Be patient. It can help to keep notes on paper regarding your daily symptom pattern, so you can see what changes. How often have you been taking the benzo? This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Juventus17 Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 Ok I will try. Thanks for the reassurance. I took 2 .5 tablets in the last 3 days and I don't remember how long ago I took one before that. I rarely ever take them. Only when I feel incredibly desperate and with pressure from family, I take one. Benzos scare me. Paxil: March 2007 - February 2010 January 2011 - September 2013 Accutane: November 2010 - December 2010 Lexapro: September 2013 - present (20mg until Jan 2015 went straight to 10mg with no problems May 2015 went to 5mg and started feeling anxiety a few days later and just got worse. Reinstated back to 10mg a few days after trying to tough out the withdrawal. No improvements into June and was upped to 15mg. Still no improvements. Actually worse than ever.) Klonopin: Occasional/temporary use between starting Lexapro. Never took longer than 2 or 3 weeks. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted May 18, 2015 Administrator Share Posted May 18, 2015 It's best to take benzos as infrequently as possible, and at the lowest effective dosage. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Juventus17 Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 It's best to take benzos as infrequently as possible, and at the lowest effective dosage. I totally agree. Are there any supplements I can take that could make tapering off easier? Also, how you feel about switching to Prozac for an easier tapering? Paxil: March 2007 - February 2010 January 2011 - September 2013 Accutane: November 2010 - December 2010 Lexapro: September 2013 - present (20mg until Jan 2015 went straight to 10mg with no problems May 2015 went to 5mg and started feeling anxiety a few days later and just got worse. Reinstated back to 10mg a few days after trying to tough out the withdrawal. No improvements into June and was upped to 15mg. Still no improvements. Actually worse than ever.) Klonopin: Occasional/temporary use between starting Lexapro. Never took longer than 2 or 3 weeks. Link to comment
Juventus17 Posted May 20, 2015 Author Share Posted May 20, 2015 4 days back on 10 mg started feeling better but today I woke up with horrible anxiety. It's so bad I keep breaking down crying and I just feel like being dead. I don't understand. I felt like I was starting to stabilize again. I don't know what to do. I had to call out of work again and I absolutely refuse to take the klonopin I have. Paxil: March 2007 - February 2010 January 2011 - September 2013 Accutane: November 2010 - December 2010 Lexapro: September 2013 - present (20mg until Jan 2015 went straight to 10mg with no problems May 2015 went to 5mg and started feeling anxiety a few days later and just got worse. Reinstated back to 10mg a few days after trying to tough out the withdrawal. No improvements into June and was upped to 15mg. Still no improvements. Actually worse than ever.) Klonopin: Occasional/temporary use between starting Lexapro. Never took longer than 2 or 3 weeks. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted May 20, 2015 Administrator Share Posted May 20, 2015 It may take some time for you to stabilize. See The Windows and Waves Pattern of Recovery Switching to Prozac incurs additional risks: The switch may not work -- you may still get Lexapro withdrawal -- and it can be difficult to go off Prozac, too. It's an option if you cannot taper directly from Lexapro. You have not given a gradual taper from Lexapro a chance yet. See the Symptoms and Self-Care forum for suggestions about how to ease symptoms. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Juventus17 Posted May 20, 2015 Author Share Posted May 20, 2015 It may take some time for you to stabilize. See The Windows and Waves Pattern of Recovery Switching to Prozac incurs additional risks: The switch may not work -- you may still get Lexapro withdrawal -- and it can be difficult to go off Prozac, too. It's an option if you cannot taper directly from Lexapro. You have not given a gradual taper from Lexapro a chance yet. See the Symptoms and Self-Care forum for suggestions about how to ease symptoms. I understand what you're saying about the tapering. I'm not concerned about that at the moment. As of now, I'm having debilitating anxiety which stopped me from going to work again today. I'm heading down the path again of not eating, not exercising, just laying on my couch crying, etc. I really don't want to do. I don't want to be hospitalized again as they mostlty nothing for me anyways. Paxil: March 2007 - February 2010 January 2011 - September 2013 Accutane: November 2010 - December 2010 Lexapro: September 2013 - present (20mg until Jan 2015 went straight to 10mg with no problems May 2015 went to 5mg and started feeling anxiety a few days later and just got worse. Reinstated back to 10mg a few days after trying to tough out the withdrawal. No improvements into June and was upped to 15mg. Still no improvements. Actually worse than ever.) Klonopin: Occasional/temporary use between starting Lexapro. Never took longer than 2 or 3 weeks. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted May 20, 2015 Administrator Share Posted May 20, 2015 You might consider taking a tiny crumb of the benzo rather than the whole tablet. What time did you have this symptom relative to when you took Prozac? This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Juventus17 Posted May 20, 2015 Author Share Posted May 20, 2015 You might consider taking a tiny crumb of the benzo rather than the whole tablet. What time did you have this symptom relative to when you took Prozac? I've never taken Prozac. I just read online that it can be easier to withdraw from Prozac compared to Lexapro which is why I asked your opinion on that. You said I may consider taking a crumb of the klonopin. However, I took one .5 tablet on Sunday at work and it barely did anything which scares me. I don't want to take anymore than that. How long does it take to develop a physical dependence or get withdrawal from stopping? I took it only twice since Friday. The last time I took it was maybe 8 months ago before that. I'm really worried. I don't want to lose my job. I can't keep missing work like this. Paxil: March 2007 - February 2010 January 2011 - September 2013 Accutane: November 2010 - December 2010 Lexapro: September 2013 - present (20mg until Jan 2015 went straight to 10mg with no problems May 2015 went to 5mg and started feeling anxiety a few days later and just got worse. Reinstated back to 10mg a few days after trying to tough out the withdrawal. No improvements into June and was upped to 15mg. Still no improvements. Actually worse than ever.) Klonopin: Occasional/temporary use between starting Lexapro. Never took longer than 2 or 3 weeks. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted May 20, 2015 Administrator Share Posted May 20, 2015 Pardon me, I meant Lexapro rather than Prozac. Please try to pin down your symptom pattern. You may need to keep notes on paper. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
sky68 Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 hi Juventus, So sorry to hear your story and that you were put on meds at such an early age. I would have tapered more slowly than I did if I knew about this site earlier. There are some very good tips as tapering 10% at a time. I haven't, in the beginning I tapered in greater amount without any noticable changes and side effects. But as the doses are smaller, the more difficult it can be to taper off. Alto has great advice, go back to 10 mg and work from there. Take your time! Good luck x Diagnosis: GAD (2008), clinical depression (2012), again clinical depression (2016) and ptsd (2016) History of: paroxetine, lexapro, sertraline, bupropion, zyprexa, seroquel, nortrilen, oxazepam, lorazepam, diazepam, nortriptyline. Successfully came off nortriptyline after a full year of tapering from 100 mg. Quit in May 2015. February 2016 started mirtazapine, followed by levothyroxine in April 2016 (diagnosis hypothyroidism) Current meds/supplements: mirtazapine 15 mg, levothyroxine 50 µg, diazepam 1mg (tapering off) and melatonin 5 mg. Link to comment
Juventus17 Posted May 20, 2015 Author Share Posted May 20, 2015 Pardon me, I meant Lexapro rather than Prozac. Please try to pin down your symptom pattern. You may need to keep notes on paper. I took your advice and went back up to 10mg Lexapro either 3 or 4 days ago. I felt like I was starting to make some progress with my anxiety. Today, I just woke up feeling horrible though. Super anxious with a tight chest, racing thoughts,etc. I'm so dissapointed as I thought I was starting to stabilize. I feel completely helpless and I don't know what to do. How do you feel about my response about the benzo? Paxil: March 2007 - February 2010 January 2011 - September 2013 Accutane: November 2010 - December 2010 Lexapro: September 2013 - present (20mg until Jan 2015 went straight to 10mg with no problems May 2015 went to 5mg and started feeling anxiety a few days later and just got worse. Reinstated back to 10mg a few days after trying to tough out the withdrawal. No improvements into June and was upped to 15mg. Still no improvements. Actually worse than ever.) Klonopin: Occasional/temporary use between starting Lexapro. Never took longer than 2 or 3 weeks. Link to comment
Juventus17 Posted May 20, 2015 Author Share Posted May 20, 2015 hi Juventus, So sorry to hear your story and that you were put on meds at such an early age. I would have tapered more slowly than I did if I knew about this site earlier. There are some very good tips as tapering 10% at a time. I haven't, in the beginning I tapered in greater amount without any noticable changes and side effects. But as the doses are smaller, the more difficult it can be to taper off. Alto has great advice, go back to 10 mg and work from there. Take your time! Good luck x Thank you for your kind words. I really feel terrible that I was put on antidepressants at 14 years old. I feel like it's taken a toll on my brain. I'm paranoid that I have irreversible damage to my brain and will be stuck on these pills for the rest of my life. I really don't want to depend on these drugs anymore. My doctor told me it would be ok to go from 20 to 10 to 5 to 0. I didn't think I would get any withdrawal since I successfully went down to 10 from 20 4 or 5 months ago without any problems. I don't see a point of being on meds when I still get the occasional bouts of anxiety that lasts weeks sometimes. My anxiety was never a steady problem. It comes in episodes and always has. I'm starting to run out of ideas. The anxiety is just too much. Paxil: March 2007 - February 2010 January 2011 - September 2013 Accutane: November 2010 - December 2010 Lexapro: September 2013 - present (20mg until Jan 2015 went straight to 10mg with no problems May 2015 went to 5mg and started feeling anxiety a few days later and just got worse. Reinstated back to 10mg a few days after trying to tough out the withdrawal. No improvements into June and was upped to 15mg. Still no improvements. Actually worse than ever.) Klonopin: Occasional/temporary use between starting Lexapro. Never took longer than 2 or 3 weeks. Link to comment
Juventus17 Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 I have concluded that antidepressants have destroyed my brain development since I started them as an adolescent which is probably why I get my bouts of anxiety so much more frequently. They put me on antidepressants before trying talk therapy. My mission is to now find the doctor responsible for putting me on Paxil and make him pay. Starting to care less about my life. Paxil: March 2007 - February 2010 January 2011 - September 2013 Accutane: November 2010 - December 2010 Lexapro: September 2013 - present (20mg until Jan 2015 went straight to 10mg with no problems May 2015 went to 5mg and started feeling anxiety a few days later and just got worse. Reinstated back to 10mg a few days after trying to tough out the withdrawal. No improvements into June and was upped to 15mg. Still no improvements. Actually worse than ever.) Klonopin: Occasional/temporary use between starting Lexapro. Never took longer than 2 or 3 weeks. Link to comment
westcoast Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Juventis, I am so sorry for what you are going through. I hope you mean a lawsuit rather than any kind of retaliation. What you have been feeling is typical for many of us here. We all say "i don't know how I got through it," but we did. It takes incredible faith in the future to endure the symptoms. For some they go away with weeks or months. For others it is much longer. I think you should find doctor who is experienced in advising about withdrawal and allow that doctor to monitor and respond to changes in dosing. It looks like going back to 10mg did not help and may have hurt. It might be that a crumb of Klonapin was not enough. I got no relief from a normal dose, myself. I was able to safely use Ativan and Xanax a few times, never for more than 10 days in a row. Others get addicted to both, though I don't know of members here who got hooked after joining and learning to avoid addiction by using them very sparingly. That thing about easy withdrawal the first time and terrible symptoms the second time is pretty common. It happened to me. I don't know why it happens, but you are not alone in that. 2009: Cancer hospital said I had adjustment disorder because I thought they were doing it wrong. Their headshrinker prescribed Effexor, and my life set on a new course. I didn't know what was ahead, like a passenger on Disneyland's Matterhorn, smiling and waving as it climbs...clink, clink, clink. 2010: Post surgical accidental Effexor discontinuation by nurses, masked by intravenous Dilaudid. (The car is balanced at the top of the track.) I get home, pop a Vicodin, and ... Whooosh...down, down, down, down, down...goes the trajectory of my life, up goes my mood and tendency to think everything is a good idea.2012: After the bipolar jig was up, now a walking bag of unrelated symptoms, I went crazy on Daytrana (the Ritalin skin patch by Noven), because ADHD was a perfect fit for a bag of unrelated symptoms. I was prescribed Effexor for the nervousness of it, and things got neurological. An EEG showed enough activity to warrant an epilepsy diagnosis rather than non-epileptic ("psychogenic") seizures. 2013-2014: Quit everything and got worse. I probably went through DAWS: dopamine agonist withdrawal syndrome. I drank to not feel, but I felt a lot: dread, fear, regret, grief: an utter sense of total loss of everything worth breathing about, for almost two years. I was not suicidal but I wanted to be dead, at least dead to the experience of my own brain and body. 2015: I began to recover after adding virgin coconut oil and organic grass-fed fed butter to a cup of instant coffee in the morning. I did it hoping for mental acuity and better memory. After ten days of that, I was much better, mood-wise. Approximately neutral. And, I experienced drowsiness. I could sleep. Not exactly happy, I did 30 days on Wellbutrin, because it had done me no harm in the past. I don't have the DAWS mood or state of mind. It never feel like doing anything if it means standing up. In fact, I don't especially like moving. I'm a brain with a beanbag body. Link to comment
Leona Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I took Accutane when I was 22-23 and had some problems too, I'm not sure if it was the Accutane or the crazy diets I had been into, maybe it was both... Until now I've taken 16 different drugs for depression, started Lexapro 3 days ago. I was clean for around 2 months after quitting Klonopin cold-turkey, I had been taking it for 3 years. What I have to tell you is, tapper off SLOWLY! I know the stigma of taking antidepressants is hard to hold but trust me, it's better to keep it as a secret for you and take the time it needs for your brain to adjust, I don't want what I had for my worst enemy. Your brain is used to function with the help of these drugs, it's normal to feel weird until it re-adapts on living without it. I had crazy memory problems and I also thought I would never recover but now I see my memory is getting back to normal. I'm sure you will recover too but be patient! Some people lose half their brain on accidents and they manage to recover, why would a simple addiction be worse? I read that antidepressants don't fix the chemical imbalance on the brain, they only make the neurotransmitters more active without making the brain produce more. It only masks the problem. You can search Google for T.J. Nelson, this guy has a nice theory on brain chemicals and nutrition. Depression can have many causes. maybe this is not yours but you might give it a try and see if it works for you. And for Klonopin, I still have a box in my drawer just in case. DON'T take it unless you are freaking out BADLY. Also, don't take the entire tablet! I have 2mg tablets and I crack them in 4 and only take 1/4 when I really need (since I quit I took only 2 times). I've never been addicted to anything before, I even took another benzos for short periods and wasn't addicted at all but don't underestimate the addictive potential of Klonopin... I live in Brazil and people here take Klonopin for anything and end up addicted, it's the 2nd most prescribed drug in Brazil. I went to a GP because I wasn't sleeping right and he gave me, and after some months I couldn't live without it anymore From 2004 to 2012 I was prescribed Fluoxetin, Alprazolam, Isotretinoin, Paroxetin, Bupropion, Citalopram, Bromazepam. Not all at once and not all for the same reason. I was diagnosed with "just depression", anxiety, panic, ADD, anorexia and bulimia. In 2012 I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and that was when I started taking medicines regularly, without an interval between them. This is when I started going to the same doctor also. From 2012 to 2015 I took Desvenlafaxin, Clonazepam, Lithium, Topiramate, Clomipramine, Bupropion again, Midazolam, Zopiclone, Zolpidem, Ritalin. During the last months of my treatment my combo was Clonazepam 2mg+Clomipramine 75mg+Lithium 600mg+Bupropion 300mg. Quit Clomipramine and Lithium FEB. 2015. Quit Bupropion (Wellbutrim XL) MARCH 2015. End of March: started Mirtazapine. APRIL 05-2015 "officially" quit Clonazepam. MAY 18 tapper off Mirtazapine for 4 days, started Lexapro on MAY 22. Link to comment
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