Multidrug: a walk ... through poly drugged hell

[Petunia]

Thanks for updating Multidrug, I'm sorry things are still very bad for you. Everything you have written sounds like acute withdrawal syndrome, I've experienced what you have described and have read the same from other members.

 

New relationships can be stressful, in a healthy, stable nervous system, this is good stress, its called excitement, falling in love can be a wonderful, exhilarating experience, but not if you are in acute withdrawal. To recover from withdrawal, we need to minimize stress, this includes good stress too.

 

The kinds of relationships that are good for healing from withdrawal are supportive, relaxing relationships where we feel comfortable, where there is no pressure, where we are known and loved and accepted for who we are. New relationships are rarely this relaxing.

 

When in acute withdrawal, when symptoms are at their worst, even relationships with people we have known for years can be difficult. I read it here all the time, parents have problems relating to their own children, adult children can't handle being around their parents and people have a difficult time socializing with old friends. I'm not surprised that this new relationship has added to your stress and caused a major wave.

 

I take a lot of vitamin B and some chinese herbs for stress but it doesn`t really help.

 

As brassmonkey wrote, stop taking the B vitamins, they can make withdrawal symptoms worse in early withdrawal. What Chinese herbs are you taking?

 

In acute withdrawal, if the nervous system is very destabilized, some people can't tolerate any supplements at all, or only calming ones like magnesium.

 

You were on Paroxetin for 10 years, then with no tapering, for the next two years you were switched to two other drugs, then poly drugged for another 2 years followed by a too fast taper off a benzo. Your signature says you feel like you are still in acute withdrawal, that's because you are.

 

I went through the same thing, I also did everything wrong and paid for it with a long period of acute withdrawal symptoms. Add in some life stress and it just gets worse.

 

What is happening with Lamictal now, are you still at 82.5mg and holding?

 

You are going to recover, but you have to focus on doing everything you can to keep your life stable and stress free. Its going to take some time, but slowly you will start to stabilize.

 

You haven't ruined everything, you have learned that you need to take care of yourself differently now that you are in acute withdrawal.

There will be plenty of time to fall in love again in the future, when you are recovered. For now, you need to do what you can to take care of yourself, reduce stress and re-stabilize.

 

Go for walks in the Forrest and meet your friend with the dog. Do things that make you feel calm.

 

Here are some threads which may help:

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Withdrawal dialogues & encouragement

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

 

[Multidrug]

Dear Petunia,

 

uff, I am sorry I just saw your reply now. Thank you so much!!!!!!!!!

 

Yes, I really feel like still being in acute. But is that even possible? I am in month 11 post benzo and in month 14 post everything else. How can it be possible that it is still acute? 

 

I am not back on my feet since my breakdown in September. What I got since then is a terrible and really loud "knocking" in my head. The first weeks after the breakdown it was nonstop every day. Then it got a bit better for maybe a day but always comes back as soon as something stresses me.

I am not able to do things anymore. I cannot go to the forest because I wouldn`t even make the way there, no dogs, no friends, no tv, no music, no books. And I cannot stop thinking about the relationship and how sorry I feel for all of that. I WANT to not think about it, but it is as if my brain would be happy to "attack" me with these thoughts again and again and again. And I am not able to handle them.

 

You are so right by saying that during wd even the "good" stress is too much. I learned that the hard way now. 

I am afraid that wd will not settle down again before I am "less in love" and I am also afraid that the heartsickness won`t settle down again before wd will get less because it feels that one is feeding the other one. I am so shocked about all of that. And I reached a state again where I am not able to calm myself down at all. I am in the couch all day with heating pads on my head to calm my brain a bit and I am thankful if I get some sleep during the day.

Since September I got insomnia for the first time in my life and my nights are not good anymore. 

 

I stopped the B-Vitamins because they made me even more agitated. So now I am taking fish oil (I am taking that for 6 months now but cannot say if it helps) and the chinese herbs which are called "ease pearls". 

 

My uncle is the manager of some hospitals in Spain and in one of them, there is a program called "TAVAD". It is originally for addicted people. Like a detox. But what is special about that treatment is that you stay in the hospital for only 5 days and the first 2 days you get sedated very drastically from different kinds of medication they give you there. The intention is, to do something like a "reset" with the brain and to rebuild the neuronas and after these two days, you are not in wd and many people wrote they felt completely different and good after that treatment. I talked to the doctor there and he said it was also possible to do the treatment when you already ARE in wd and that there is a good chance that the treatment will stop the wd. 

I am so despaired and so tired of all of this which is going on for 3 years now and it is only getting worse and not better at all that I am really thinking about going there and give it a try. 

 

Yes, I am still on 82.5mg of the Lamictal. I hate taking it and I realized, when I did the 25mg cut in August, it was too much and I felt awful BUT that horrible agitation was much better. I would like to go down to 80mg but I am too afraid. I pray every day that I will calm down again a bit. 

 

In any case, thank you very much for your reply!!!!

 

Multi

[Multidrug]

I am not at ALL able to handle that I lost my relationship. The problem now is not even that it is over. It is that my brain is going crazy over that. I cannot understand and I cannot reflect it. The fact itself is not the problem anymore. I was the one that said I cannot have contact anymore in wd and she accepted that completely and in a very nice way. 
But what happened THEN in my brain is just horror. 

It switched on the turbo and my agitation and anxiety exploded completely. The racing thoughts were just horrible. And there was no need at all for that to happen. And now, since one week, I am starting getting horribly depressed and I have suicidal ideations again. It is so bad that I really do not know what to do anymore. My brain doesn`t stop thinking about the why over and over and over and over again and doesn`t find an answer. I have horrible feelings that I cannot even explain. I feel like exploding. I feel like I finally but definitely went crazy.

I don`t know what to do anymore. 

Please, if anybody had a dramatic life event during wd with similar experiences, tell me. How will this go away again? My brain keeps holding that event in record and just doesn`t let go. This is killing me.

Thanks for any replies.

[Multidrug]

Oh god,

 

I destroyed everything!! Because I started and then lost my relationship during wd.

 

What happened the beginning of September was a nervous breakdown and I cannot recover from that. I feel like freaking out or dying every day. That knocking in my head is so awful, I cry all the time, I cannot walk ten meters, I cannot go outside anymore, I am sweating like crazy, cannot go to the toilet, cannot sleep. I did not have all of that before the breakdown!!!! And the worst is, I just cannot stop thinking about what happened. My thoughts are running and racing out of control.

 

I am terrified this won't stop on its own because it doesn't feel like. I am so afraid I have to put myself into the hospital because it is unbearable.

I am taking chinese herbs to help a bit but they don't.

 

I went to the doctor some weeks ago because of this and he gave me amisulprid. Should I maybe try to take a very small amount? I do not want to take more meds, but I even more do not want to die or end up at a hospital again.

 

Please if anybody can give me some advice....

 

Thank you

Multi

[Castor]

Hi Multi,

 

I don't have any advice for you regarding medication but I can tell you that I had a very bad break-up when I was in benzo withdrawal. It was very brutal and I obsessed over it constantly. My mind also just focused on everything negative. Eventually it passed. I don't think you are going crazy.

 

I know you're suffering a lot right now and you are in my thoughts and prayers.

 

Castor

[bubble]

Your signature says you are thinking of reinstating. What drug?

 

I'm very worried about your uncle's clinic you mention. It's hard to believe something like that exists. You've already been experimented on at hospital and are paying the price now. You don't need this. If you go to see a psychiatrist and go on medication, take a very small dose. It seems like your information in the signature is not up to date.

 

I'm very sorry you are suffering so badly. Stay in touch.

[Multidrug]

Thank you, both of you,

 

bubble, I was thinking about reinstating ativan for a long time. Not anymore. I am still taking the Lamictal. I am on 82.5mg.

 

The TAVAD program is very well known in Spain and other countries, and also hospitals in the US, want to start the program, too, because of its excellent results. The intention of this treatment is to rebuild neuronas in the brain. It is very effectful for people who are not in wd yet to avoid wd completely but also for people that are already in wd to stop it. Anyway, the positive results are about 75% so it does not work for everybody. And the reason why I am not there yet, is because I am afraid I will be one of the 25% that won`t have success.

 

But what do you mean with taking only a very small amount? I got 50mg pills here. The doctor said that is the smallest amount. How much could I take?

Thank you for your answer.

 

Multi

[Multidrug]

It`s been a while and I thought it is time for an update.

 

Since I had the breakdown in September because I had to give up my relationship, I am not the same person anymore. 

My stress level does not..and I mean NOT...calm down. Just not at all. Every day since I feel like it is my last. I cannot think anymore, because there is nothing but stress in my head. It is so loud and thoughts are running like crazy, I just dont know how this will ever stop again. I got terrible crying spells, I want to jump out off my body and brain. My brain feels like swollen and as soon as that feeling starts, my thoughts are running like crazy. And that awful knocking in my head just doesnt stop. Every day. All day. For the first time during wd I cannot sleep at night. I lay there for hours before falling asleep. When I wake up the next day, I feel exhausted. And since the breakdown I cannot go to the toilet anymore. I feel like in a state of shock which doesnt stop anymore. 

 

And again, I start to wonder if and what the Lamictal has something to do with all of that. I want to go on with my taper. I am so sick of these pills and so afraid that not going on with the taper is wrong and also afraid that going on with the taper is wrong. It is so very hard to stay patient. 

 

I did not take the Solian but I am convinced that, as long as I am like I am now, there is now way that any healing is happening. Because of that overwhelming exploding stress. I feel crazy and I want to do something, ANYTHING, to make it a bit more bearable. 

I am so tired of being like that. I am so tired of getting up like that day after day and being nothing but terrified because there is another day to survive. Surviving...day after day after day....and STILL there is another drug that has to be tapered. But I am not stabilizing and my brain is a hundred times more out of balance since the breakdown than when "only" in withdrawal. Jesus Christ....

[KT38]

That sounds a lot like me.  It feels like your brain exploded and you cannot possibly take anything else in.....your brain muscle is tight and you can't even switch your thoughts....and if you do it hurts.

[Multidrug]

Hello everybody,

 

I hoped I would be able to say that things had improved a bit by now....well, that`s not the case.

 

Since September I am not able to stabilize at all. For me, what happened in September, absolutely felt like a nervous breakdown, even though other people in wd tell me it wasn`t. But I know that, back then, something "exploded" inside my head and I am living in pure terror ever since.

 

Or, but I don`t believe that, wd just went to another level. I have that constant knocking in my head and that really really scares me. I cannot sleep anymore, my digestion is a mess (guess I will explode soon even though I eat the healthiest diet on earth and never had problems with my gut before september) but the most horrible are these obsessive, intrusive racing and looping thoughts. ALWAYS about the same thing (the relationship that I ended). That is just sooooo scary. Am I psychotic?????? Because I sure feel like I was!!!!! I have no idea what I can do to make that stop. I cried a lot because of the break up, but I think I cried mostly because of that great despair I feel because of that feeling that I am not able to ....and now again I cannot find the right word in english....process (??) that whole breaking up thing in my head. As if I lost the ability to do that. And because of that, my stress level in my head is so high and never settles down. This is so hard for me and on some days it is so bad that I cannot "think" anymore. At all. 

 

When I reread my post you could think that I have a little "problem" with coming over a relationship. But it`s not that. This is killing me and I was never so despaired in my whole life. These thoughts have to stop. Also my anxiety is over the top, the akathesia is back, as well as depression and paranoia. But these thoughts are what is really too much for me. 

 

How will that stop? I started meditation but it`s very hard now because of that chaos in my head. I go for little walks and started knitting but everything feels too much because that noise in my head is just so overwhelming. On many many days I don`t do anything at all and stay in bed with that nightmare in my head. I was never like that in the last 3 years since my first wd started. I always tried and tried again, went out, met friends, spent as much time as possible in the nature, but this time, I don`t know....it just doesn`t feel like "only" wd. It feels as if something is damaged now.

 

Oh pffff........I am sorry for being so not encouraging again. I wish I could be more optimistic because that was what always kept me going. But now, I am just terrified. 

 

It wouldn`t be wise to go on with my Lamictal taper at this point I gues???? Not even 5mg???

 

I hope you are all doing ok

Multi

[Multidrug]

Oh...and I forgot...I read in a book that when you have taken a neurolepticum for a while and then stop it, there is a risk that you are not able to process things in your head anymore....or better, that the brain is not able to process things anymore as a result of having taken that drug. And since I took a neurolepticum for 4 months, maybe that is why I am not able to process that relationship thing? Pf pf pf pf pf.....enough

[LoveandLight]

What is a neurolepticum?

[ChessieCat]

neurolepticum (german) = antipsychotic I looked it up. CC

[SquirrellyGirl]

Multidrug, I am glad you are still out there!  I worry about you all the time!  This healing business is so slow for some, and so frustrating!  It is all such a mess to know what to do next. 

 

Maybe you should consult with Baylissa Fredericks of Recovery Road.  

 

Glad to see you!

SG

[lanah]

Hello everybody,

 

I was a silent visitor on this page for a while now but today I think it`s time to share my story with you. I will try to make it as short as possible and I apologize for my bad english, I am not so good at it.

 

So...here is my story:

 

At the age of 21 I was prescribed Paroxetin because I had a stressful time at college and troubles in my relationship (I was so surprised that my doctor thought these problems could be "healed" by a pill, but well...I took it). In total I took it for 10 years!! I hated it from the very beginning and I tried to ct it many times (I did not know it doesn`t work like that) but always reinstated after some days. So after ten years I switched over to Effexor, because I told my doc I so badly wanted to get off that drug but I just wouldn`t make it (if I only knew about HOW to do it right!). So I took Effexor for another 2 years. I always felt numb but I took it anyway until the day that I started to think that something was out of order. I started getting very very anxious (I never was anxious before!) and I knew it was a side effect from the drug. So I went to my doc and told her about it and she crossed over to citalopram. Then hell`s doors opened!!!

 

I felt soo bad that I had to stay away from work (I thought it would be for maybe 2 weeks...WRONG...it is 2.5 years later now and I am still not back!!!). I felt worse and worse with citalopram and stopped it ct after 6 weeks. Immediately I felt better. I felt great for 6 weeks and then had a completely break down. I couldn`t do anything. Not eat, not walk, not shower, not talk, I was suicidal for the first time in my life. What followed was:

 

- 7 stays in psychiatric hospitals without ANY relief

- 20 different psych meds (alone, together, blue with red, green with blue, yellow with red and blue) (don`t remember them all but there was: cymbalta, amitryptilin, doxepin, lithium, opipramol, lyrica, atosil, effexor again, elontril, etc. some I took only once or twice, some I took for some weeks) 

- everything got worse and worse

 

One led to another and after I ct 30mg of Seroquel last September and feeling psychotic after that I started taking Ativan, 1mg a day. The first two weeks it was such a gift from heaven. I felt relief for the first time. But after only two weeks something changed into a very bad direction. I got aggressive, even more depressed and suicidal. I went to my doc and he gave me a taper plan. I had to taper 25% every two weeks (which, now I know, was waaaaay to fast!!). It was HELL....I freaked out almost every day. I begged my doc to switch me over to valium and make a smoother taper but he refused. So I had no choice. 

 

Today:

 I am in month seven now without ativan, ten months without Seroquel and I am in pure hell. Only during the last few months I started searching the internet because all these symptoms I have soooo do not feel "human" or like "myself". They feel so toxic and now I know they ARE. 

 

My conclusion is whatever there was to do wrong during the last 2.5 years, I DID wrong (not knowing it was wrong though). I trusted in my doctors so much, never doubted what they did or gave me to take). Now I live in the corner to death. I lost my job, my apartment, my relationship, my friends. I moved back to my parents, I am unable to be alone. I will lose my relationship because I am unable to give and I am unable to meet). There is just nothing left and every day is just another nightmare. 

 

I forgot to mention that I am still on one drug. It`s Lamictal. I so much want to get that out of my body, too. I was on 100mg for a year (not because I am bipolar or have seizures, just because it was just another drug they played around with) and started a taper two months ago. I do that water method (cannot remember the name now) and reduce 5% every month. I don`t know if that makes my withdrawal from all the other things even worse. I don`t know anymore what causes what. 

 

What I know is that I am at the end with my strength and faith. My symptoms bring me to me knees every day. The agitation is killing me, the anxiety is torment, awful depression, suicidal thought (actually it is more like a suicidal feeling than a thought), dizzyness, headaches, brain fog, burning body as if acid would run through my veins, no memory, not a single feeling that feels normal. I lost myself. 

 

I just came here so that I will not be all alone with all these things. I cannot make it anymore. I am also a member in a benzo forum but there, most of the people "only" took benzos and I think, maybe I will not heal like they do because I was so badly poly drugged. 

 

I am so afraid that this will never get better. I so don`t know how to survive only one more day like this. I wonder if reinstating the ativan in a lower dose would help or maybe start diazepam in a very low dose. I wonder if I felt better if I just ct the Lamictal. I am clueless!!! 

 

Thank you for reading.....

Multi

Hi multi. I am a polydrugger too! Did not write al my drugs in my sig because they are too many , I would say 8 antidepressants, 3 antipsychotics, 1 opiad, 5 benzo's, ... many many cold turkeys. 

I am disabled right now because of it. 

Hugs! I am very scared right now because indeed polydruggers seem to have more going on than exclusively benzo's or ADs

[JanCarol]

Hey Multidrug - I hope you are surviving the holiday season as peacefully as possible.

 

Wow.  I just found your thread, and wow.  You were quite the laboratory for experiments!  I'm sorry you have been through this.  Please be assured that others have suffered the way you are suffering, and are now better.

 

One of the symptoms of withdrawal is to self-perpetuate.  To convince you beyond a doubt that it is "damage" and "it will last forever."  This is simply not true.  There are people (like my husband) with holes in their brains (he had a stroke) who get better.  If they can get better, than so can you.  He is not the same as he was before, but he is not damaged, either.  

 

The magic word is Neuroplasticity.  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2761-neuroplasticity-and-limbic-retraining/

 

First, I want to look at your substances:

 

Vit B:  you said:

I just started with the Vitamin B complex because it makes my thinking a bit less intense. 

 

Petunia said you should stop this supplement.  Did you?  Did it make things better or worse?

 

There may be specific B vitamins which can help you, but in a compound of many B vitamins you do not know which ones are helping and which ones are harming.

 

The first one I would try is niacin (B3), because of what you say about the way B vitamins helped your thinking.  Try ONLY niacin, in small amounts.  Break the pill up into tiny parts (or buy empty gelcaps, and turn one capsule into 4 capsules) and try a little bit to see if you can tolerate it.  If it doesn't seem to hurt, you can gradually increase it (once a week or so) until you are up to a whole capsule, or a half capsule 2x a day.  

 

See:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/43-vitamin-b3-niacin-niacinamide/

 

Other specific vitamins which may or may not help are:  B6 and B12.  BUT - do not try them in combination.  Try them individually, because they can make you worse, and you certainly don't want that!

 

Also you mention "Chinese herbs" - I know they are mysterious (I have acupuncture, too, and I write the names down on paper and take them to Chinatown and show them to the herb shop - I have NO IDEA what I am buying).  But right now it is important to keep it simple:  

 

3 KIS's Keep It Simple, Slow, Stable

 

Hubby just informed me that it is dinnertime.  I have more notes about your emotional state.  I will come back later tonight.

 

Please hang in there.  You can get better.  I know it seems like forever, because that's the way these drugs work.  They build a great big tower, and now you are left in rubble, trying to piece it together.  But the good news is, the brain & body are self healing.  It's miraculous, the healing that can take place - so you do not have to put the pieces together yourself - you just have to wait, distract, survive, and learn coping mechanisms while your brain and body do the healing.

[JanCarol]

Hey Multidrug, you really have been through the wringer, and I respect that you have stayed steady on your lamictal and not added any new drugs.  That's fortitude, strength.  You can do this!
 

You wrote about knocking in the head.  I get that!  No, I mean I have that, it happens to me!  It was just happening last night, and I was wondering what brought it on.  I have no recent withdrawals, but I have chronic fatigue from years of tampering and surgeries.  I've seen others who had that - it's like a brain zap, but without the light.  Just the crackle, or knock like someone is slamming 2 blocks of wood together, only inside my head!  All I can do is wait, and breathe.  By morning I was okay, but it sure was disruptive trying to sleep with that going on.

 

I appreciate your attempts to meditate - and I understand why it may not be the thing, sitting still.  There may be other ways to help your bodymind along, like dance.  Even stomping around the house to music - or if that's too energetic, making waves with your hands and arms to music, swaying, clapping - or singing.  These can be meditation, too.

 

There are many ways to work to Change the Channel , distractions, whether that is music or coloring books, or TV or silly video games.  Some of us take comfort in watching the TV shows of our childhood (I can always watch Star Trek, or Mash.  Always.)  Some of us take comfort in listening to soothing discussions on YouTube and healing channels.  Like Baylissa Frederick, or Claire Weekes, or Eckhart Tolle.  Some of us have pets, and can interact with them.  Some of us just like looking at animals and Pinterest and crafts.  Do you like crafts?  I also like my red bucket, which is always filled with magnesium water and I can just go plop my feet in it.  The cool water - temperature change - combined with the magnesium is an instant mood adjustment.  Walking is always good, even short distances, and even in bad weather.

 

You ask:

 

Shouldn`t withdrawal get better and not worse over time? 

 

Withdrawal is not linear.  Some describe it as solving a Rubiks Cube - sometimes it gets worse before it gets better.  Others describe it as three steps forward, two steps backward - and while you are going backward you think it will always be like that - but then you will move forward a little bit.  Over time the improvement happens, but it is slower than you want it to be.  Just know that it is improving.

 

But most of the recovery community calls it Waves and Windows.  When you are under it, and struggling, it is like drowning in a wave - but windows come, they will come.  Maybe the first window is only a minute long.  But it is a window.  It is hope that you are normalizing.  Then another wave of symptoms come.  One theory is that each successive wave and change in symptoms is healing a system, so if you are having intense emotions, then your emotional system is healing.

 

I don't think 4 months on a neuroleptic will be permanent damage for you.  I have known people on these for decades who are highly intelligent, working on advanced degrees, and teaching others.  So please dismiss that thought when it comes.  

 

Most importantly you wrote:

 

You are so right by saying that during wd even the "good" stress is too much. I learned that the hard way now. 

I am afraid that wd will not settle down again before I am "less in love" and I am also afraid that the heartsickness won`t settle down again before wd will get less because it feels that one is feeding the other one. 

and

 

The racing thoughts were just horrible. And there was no need at all for that to happen. And now, since one week, I am starting getting horribly depressed and I have suicidal ideations again. It is so bad that I really do not know what to do anymore. My brain doesn`t stop thinking about the why over and over and over and over again and doesn`t find an answer. I have horrible feelings that I cannot even explain. I feel like exploding. I feel like I finally but definitely went crazy.

 

These are Neuro-emotion .  Neuro emotion is real emotions - or the seed of real emotions - magnified under an electron microscope and projected in IMAX 3D inside your skull and gut.  It feels so real, because there is a seed of truth at the center of it.  But the magnitude of the emotion is not real, even if the basis is in truth.

 

Please read the links I have placed for you here, and please take comfort that you can get through this.  Next year can be so much better for you.  I hope to hear from you how you are doing - I see you onsite, but haven't seen any updates here.  Please don't be discouraged, there are many of us who are thinking about you and concerned for you.

 

I hope you see the forest today.

[Multidrug]

Dear JanCarol,

 

wow!!! Thank you so much!!!!! I do not write here often because I feel "ashamed". I still did not recover from my horrible crash in September and all I could write is it is still so awful, I still feel crazy, I still don`t know what to do. So I prefer to write nothing at all. 

 

But it`s really amazing. Yesterday my mother (who has been living with me for almost 1.5 years now, but normally she lives in another country with her husband and that whole situation was kind of tricky) left so I am alone now and really scared to death because I don`t know how I should manage this alone. I felt lost. But when I opened my mail I saw that all the people I know from the forums (this and another one) wrote me. That felt like a god sent thing and I feel a bit more hopeful. 

 

I still take the B-vitamins. It is a mix of B3, B6 and B12. I don`t know whether it is placebo or if they really calm me down a bit. But I think they do. Anyway I will try to get the B3 vitamin and only take that one to see if there is a difference. 

 

The last for months were just horrific and I was so desperate. Everyday I thought I won`t make it and I took the chinese herbs like crazy (not knowing if they helped) because I thought I HAVE to take something. Sometimes they make me tired, other times I don`t feel anything at all. It`s very strange. Anyway, I haven`t taken them for around a week or two now and manage to make it without. What I take everyday is fishoil (twice a day) and magnesium glycinate (once a day) and the hated Lamictal. If I only knew if the Lamictal is giving me that awful agitation that just won`t stop. But I don`t and maybe it`s all still from all the other meds I was on so I will go on taking the 82.5mg and listen to Alto and the others here. I am almost 13 months off the benzo and I would like to go on with my taper around my 18 month mark (IF I will be back to the baseline I was at before the huge crash in September). 

 

Everybody tells me that what I experienced in September was not a breakdown. I do not agree. I know myself and I know how wd feels and I know how it feels when symptoms got worse after some stress or triggers. I had all of that many times but always calmed down again after some hours. Not that time. 

A thunderstorm exploded in my head and I just could not do ANYTHING anymore. Something has changed and the thoughts are so fast and loud and crazy like never before. Now my job is to do whatever I can to calm down my brain. 

 

Yes , I do meditation every day but it does not really have anything to do with meditation. When I close my eyes the movies start. It`s like cinema for free, sadly only with action and psycho movies, no ramantic comedies here! 

 

You mentioned the foot baths. I like to take hot baths with epson salt and what I can really recommend for racing thoughts and all kind of head symptoms is boiling water, letting it cool a bit, add some epson salt and, putting a towel in it and then putting the towel on your head. That really calms down the head symptoms in my case. I am also surrounded by heating pads all day long. 

 

Watching TV is unfortunately not an option for me. I wish it was because it is really the best option to make time pass during wd but first, I hate TV in general (I think it`s the perfect thing to make people stupid) and second it immediately gives me bad head symptoms because of the changing pictures (so...I tried it ) and I can only watch with one eye closed. It is the same thing with music (doesn`t make people stupid but gives me bad head symptoms immediately; but that is only since September; before I was able to listen to music and I miss it a lot!!!)

 

Since I have to do everything alone now because my mother left, there will always be something to do in the apartment. I have to relearn that completely. Today I went to the supermarket for the first time in a YEAR. I could not fall asleep yesterday because I knew I had to do that today and I had no idea how I should manage that but I did and it was ok. I told myself I will make it alone. In the past I could trust that when I told myself I would make it, I did make it. Now it`s the first time I am not so sure about that. But I will try. 

 

And I really can`t wait to go to the forest again. That, too, I haven`t done since September and that is the thing I miss most!!! Instead I went to the riverside and only walked maybe 1km. After that I was very exhausted and had to go back home. Now I will just start with walking around the blog.

What I don`t have a solution for is how to even reach the river or the forest because for both ways you need a car and driving really is impossible (for the moment). I hope in time I will be able to do that again because whenever I am in "my" nature, I am safe.

 

Dear JanCarol, that was probably more infos than you want to know so I put the point here.

 

Thank you so much for writing me. 

 

Multi

[Multidrug]

I know I just wrote today that I will not continue the Lamictal taper but I really wonder, if that is what`s causing a big part of my hell now. My whole thinking has changed since September. Just everything is different in my head and I am really despaired what could be the reason for that. I try to explain:

 

So....the whole wd nightmare started in december 2012, then I was put on all these psych meds, sometimes on one, sometimes cocktails of some

 

- I started the Lamictal in May 2014 together with Seroquel

I knew I felt awful from the Seroquel because it made me feel like a zombie so I did a very fast taper and in the end ct 

- then I was on Lamictal (I was on 100mg and my doctor wanted to go up to 200 but I told him I would feel very agitated from it and so I stayed on 100) and in Seroquel (as well as a million others I guess) wd for the next three months

- then I could not stand that anymore and started the benzo and took it for another 2 months

- then I entered hell on dec, 10th 2014 because of benzo wd

 

- BUT I started getting windows from february on and in April I could even go and stay one week at a friends house plus I spent the whole mai with my partner I had then. Since September, nothing of that is possible anymore. Not even close to possible. And not a single window since then.

 

- my Lamictal dose was 100mg and I started a 5mg taper/month in Mai

- Mai was fine, I did not feel anything from the taper, June was fine, too (July and August I was in a horrible condition because (at least I think that`s the reason) of the "stress" with being in love

- but at the end of Mai, I remember that one afternoon I felt really "strange" (that was the first time that it got so „loud“ in my head. I thought it was because I did not sleep enough or overdid it so I stayed in bed the rest of the day and was fine the next day (but I was really scared)

- same thing happened around a week later

- in July I was already very very stressed and couldn`t calm down because I thought the whole relationship thing was too much

- same in August and it got worse so I broke up the relationship

- and in the beginning of September something exploded in my head; it was the same feeling then the two times before but this time it was non-stop and I just knew that this is something serious

- now it`s for months later and I am still H.O.R.R.I.B.L.E. It doesn`t stop. Instead it gets worse in any possible way. I have horrible paranoia and I am just afraid of everything and everybody. My head feels damaged and if something is not doing what it`s supposed to do (I know in wd nothing is really doing what it is supposed to do but this feels just different and serious)

 

The anxiety exploded and makes it unable to think clearly. Actually there is such a chaos and non stop racing thoughts in my head that it feels almost impossible to think my "wanted" thoughts at all, which makes positive self talk or calming myself down a bit almost impossible. And often it is so very loud in my head that I am just scared to death.

 

What I actually want to say or better ask with all of that is: do you think all these things that are going on since September are maybe side effects of the Lamictal??? Maybe the benzo taper is over or, if not over, then at least less strong because I was a trillion times better than I am now until Mai and because I am not on any sedating drugs now the Lamictal can "show" its real face??? Typical side effects of Lamictal are anxiety, agitation and even psychosis. I am wondering that all the time and if that is the case I just don`t know what to do. I am still on 82.5mg of Lamictal now and afraid to taper because of my situation. But if the Lamictal is what`s causing it, then in God`s name, I have to come off of it!!!!!!

 

Because all my symptoms now are so so so different from the symptoms I had before September. And that knocking in my head...pffff...it`s awful!!!!!! Normally I would run to a doctor with that because it feels not right but I am too afraid. Or maybe this is just how you feel after a nervous breakdown. I don`t know. But it`s awful.

 

Please, maybe Alto, after reading this, can you give me your opinion? I have always always always been very sensitive to all these meds since wd started and maybe it is really the Lamictal. All I can say is that something has dramatically changed in a very bad way and I don`t know if I am really strong enough to wait this out at that level forever.

 

Thank you for reading and for your thoughts about it!

[Multidrug]

Taking a break from the forum.

[Petunia]

Hey Multi, are you still here? I hope so.

I'm not Alto, but I read through your recent thread and have looked at your signature and wanted to share my opinion. I don't think Lamictal is the problem.

 

To me it looks like your nervous system is still very sensitized from the effects of your extensive drug history. Long term Paroxetin use, followed by 2 years of poly pharmacy, lots of changes, all of which put stress on your nervous system. Then it looks like you probably became dependent on Ativan, adding benzo withdrawal to the mix.

 

What you call a nervous breakdown, was probably your nervous system reaching its limit of resilience. Your relationship and break-up may have added to your stress levels, but I think it probably would have happened anyway.

 

A similar thing happened to me at the end of 2011, I call it my 'crash'. I had been off lexapro for about a year after long term use, but had been on and off other medications, trying to manage symptoms, but getting slowly worse all the time.

 

After a stressful week of events and taking various medications, a few more than usual, something happened in my head and body that weekend, its hard to explain, but it was like something major changed and I was never the same again.

 

My recovery started when I found this site and learned the importance of keeping things stable. Once our nervous system gets destabilized, badly, it can take a long time for it to repair itself and it needs routine and minimal stress to be able to do the repair work.

 

I think you need to keep taking the same amount of Lamictal at the same time every day and eventually you will stabilize. It may take a few months, possibly more, maybe more than a year, but eventually your nervous system will calm down and start to heal. When you are stable again your can begin a slow taper off Lamictal.

 

I think you need to look at this as a long term project, you have been on these drugs for over 15 years, so its going to take some time to heal from their effects. You are young, so will probably recover faster than I am, but you have to be patient and learn how to tolerate the symptoms as you are recovering.

 

Study our Symptoms and self-care  forum to learn everything you need to know to help yourself while you are recovering.

 

The reason I know its not the Lamictal causing your symptoms is because I experienced exactly what you are going through while being completely drug free.

 

Taking a break from posting here is a good idea if you think it will help, but please read through the link and information and learn how to take care of yourself as you continue healing. We will still be here when you need some support.

 

Petunia.

[westcoast]

I don't think it's safe to advise him to take a drug because someone feel the same way without the drug. That doesn't rule out the drug, although it does offers an alternative that's valid. I just read about a severe manic reaction to Lamictal, in fact.

 

I had to go off it because it made me so stupid and forgetful that I double-dosed on two occasions. Both times I walked like a  staggering drunk-- could NOT walk normally, and both times I got severe double vision. One eye was normal and the other one was looking at the floor. I thought it was brain tumor...Lamictal is weird and not benign, and it seems much wiser to let Multi and those near him call the shots.

 

I don't mean to come in here and trample you empathy and kindness and wisdom, just to temper it a little when it comes to advising to take or not to take a risky drug.

[SquirrellyGirl]

Hmm, what is Multi supposed to do if the senior members who have been in the trenches and have valid input aren't allowed to advise here? I kind of thought that was what this forum was about, support and guidance.  Certainly her doctors who got her in this bind won't have anything to offer other than more drugs for symptoms. She is free to disregard the advice if she chooses.   Either way it's tricky because she has been suffering for a very long time and is pretty worn out.

 

SG

[bubble]

Westcoast, this wasn't a question of taking a drug. Multi has already been taking Lamictal (for quite some time which is unfortunately not visible from her signature). Attempts to reduce it made symptoms worse. 

 

Although the drug comes with its set of symptoms, discontinuing it or reducing can often make things worse because it introduces instability. And we have seen stability as being the only thing that actually helps the brain to recover. I hope this clarifies things for you. 

[Altostrata]

I agree with Petunia, SquirrellyGirl, and Bubble.

 

Multidrug, it sounds like your withdrawal from benzo and possibly Seroquel merged. It may have been too soon to taper lamotrigine, that added to destabilization.

 

Adverse reactions to lamotrigine generally occur when one is increasing the dosage or when dosages are too high. As you've been taking 100mg lamotrigine for more than a year, it's unlikely you are suffering an adverse effect from it. Rather, it's withdrawal that's causing the problem.

 

What is your daily symptom pattern? When do you take lamotrigine? Do you feel any different in the 3 hours after you take it?

[JanCarol]

Hey Multi - I'm so glad to hear from you, but sorry to hear that you are still struggling.

 

It sounds like the wiser heads of the forum are saying to stop, to stabilize.

 

I would suggest getting rid of those B vitamins ASAP, you need all the help to stabilize that you can get.  Stop them now, and then if that helps you get stable, you can try the B3 later, to see if it is calming (this is not always the case).

 

Not to be confusing, but if you are convinced (against the wise opinion of senior mods here) that the drug side effects are the problem - you can do a tiny tiny tiny cut.  Maybe 1/2 mg (.5 mg), to see if it makes things better or worse.  BUT only a tiny, test amount.  No major drops; this is less than a 1% drop.

 

If it makes things worse, then it is withdrawal.

If it makes things better, then it is side effects.

If it makes no difference at all - then who knows?  Maybe you can get away with a few micro tapers.

 

Please don't be afraid to come in here and post - I'm sorry it took me so long to get to you (I'm s-l-o-w) - but it helps us and helps you so please don't be shy!  We're here for you, and want to help you to be there for yourself.

 

You wrote:

Today I went to the supermarket for the first time in a YEAR. I could not fall asleep yesterday because I knew I had to do that today and I had no idea how I should manage that but I did and it was ok. 

 

This is AWESOME!!!!

 

It sounds like you are making the adjustments - short walks, supermarket - that you need to do to support yourself on your own.  Maybe there is somewhere you can make connections for support?  Maybe put up a post on Meetup - "would like to meet someone in my area to dog walk" or even "will walk your dog" notices?  Maybe "want someone to throw a frisbee with"?  Maybe there is some sort of park-based group near you doing tai chi or maybe if you walk in the same park every day you can meet people to talk to?

 

So even while you've been suffering, you are making adjustments beautifully, naturally, healthily to help yourself.  Thank you for posting and letting us know what is going on with you.

[lanah]

I have read on the benzo forum from a protracted member (+5 years) that if something really works and you need it (for example your vitamin B's) then it is damaging you. I actually had a similar thing a few months back, suddenly every time I ate a piece of chocolate I calmed down and was able to sleep. So it seemed ok. But after a few months of eating that nightly chocolate (a tiny piece) I crashed hard. Did not know what was happening. A few others experienced this with different types of things (certain tea's , herbs) If you are craving it, it's bad for you in withdrawal. 
I would really consider stop taking the vitamin's wait until the acute withdrawal from your vitamins is over and see if it gets better. 

[Multidrug]

Hello all,

 

it`s been a while since my last visit here. After what happened to castor I had to leave the forum for a while. Thank you for your posts and sorry for not answering them.

 

Now I am back in great despair. I want to give you a short update so that you can see what things are like here:

 

First of all, I am still on that nasty Lamictal. Then my story was: Heavily polydrugged for two years until in September 2014 decided the drugs were the problem. Quit Seroquel in 9/14 (which was the last of all the AD`s and neuroleptics), then couldn`t stand the withdrawal and started Ativan from end of September to December 2014 (it started working paradoxical very soon). Then withdrawal began. I felt horrible but from the very beginning I had what you call windows around every 6 weeks for a day or two then went back to a wave. I was feeling very bad but could also feel that I was improving. For example in July I was riding my bike again and from May to August I could spend my whole days outside in the nature. I was able to go to stores and see people.

 

In September, EVERYTHING changed (after I had to break up my relationship because I couldnt handle the positive "stress"). That was the 1st of September and something exploded in my head...I could literally feel that and I knew immediatelly that something was "different" then. I was not able to process what happened. At all! Things were getting terribly loud in my head, I did not have control over my thoughts anymore, they just floaded me and that horrible, awful, terrible knocking started. I guess it is my pulse but it makes my head feel like exploding and it is there all the time. And STILL it is there.

 

I have no windows since September. No days when I feel something like "normal". I am not leaving my appartment anymore, my mobile is switched off for months now because it is stressing me soooo much to get messages or calls. My mother is still staying with me in my apartment and since December I cannot see my stepfather anymore. Normally he comes to see us every weekend but because of what`s going on with me I told him he cannot come anymore. I am so paranoid. I do not get back to stability. 

 

The first two weeks in March have been the only slightly better days. My mind calmed down a bit and so did the racing thoughts and paranoia. I was so very grateful for that since the months before had been the most horrible in my life. I was able to leave the bed again and just able to breath again.

 

Then, around a week ago a friend of mine called. First she talked to my mother and i already knew then that I should not talk to her because it would stress me. But it did and it did. And as soon as I did, all the horror started again. The racing thoughts about just everything. These pictures that come to my mind all the time, horrible sleep, nightmares, very strange sensations in my head (like cramps and stitches in my brain all the time), my eyes are "trembling", my whole body is trembling. And it is getting louder again. Jesus Christ, WHAT IS THAT???? I really think I am dying here and completely losing my mind. That knocking is unbearable. I know it is stress but it just won`t settle down. 

 

I will not recover like that. I have been trying so so hard for so so long but the reaction of my body and mind to the stress I had in September is really breaking my neck. I don`t know what to do anymore. I want to beg my mother to take me to a doctor because I just cannot handle it anymore but she keeps telling me it is all withdrawal and I will make it and she is here with me. But I start thinking it is NOT all withdrawal. And even if it is my brain can not work on recovery as long as I am so wild and out of control in my head. 

 

The Lamotrigin. I am on 77.5mg now. I made 0.5 to 1mg cuts over the last months. Once I tried a 2.5mg cut and immediately the head stuff got worse. 

I am still terrified that the Lamotrigin is causing all this (logically it is not since I was on 100mg for over a year without these symptoms and the symptoms started only after I cut down to 80mg but I cannot think logical anymore and one of the side effects of Lamotrigin is Psychosis and Jesus I am just terrified).

 

Alto, I take the Lamotrigin around 10 in the evening and sometimes, when I am still up for 2 more hours, I feel a LITTLE bit better (calmer) in my head. But that might also be because my brain is just tired. 

 

I don`t know what I am asking for here. Help in any possible way. I really can take a lot and I am taking a lot for almost 3.5 years now but I am at my end. I cannot stand these head sensations any longer. Can you please tell my anything that might help for that (besides these things like breathing, nature, meditation....doing all of them without effect). I have to go to a doctor again (oh I did a CT and an EEG and there was nothing wrong). I guess I have no other choice then going back on pills until that knocking is gone, I just don`t know what kind of pills would be "best"....oh god I so don`t want to go that route again....but I don`t have the strength anymore.

That knocking HAS to stop and the thoughts have to calm down. It is killing me. 

 

Thank you all for reading.

Multi

[Depresstothecore]

Dear multidrug

I know how it feels in withdrawal.i had the same knocking sensation in my head few months ago.i took homeopathy medicine kali phos 6x and magnesium phos 6x four tablrts four times a day . it helped me alot.but unfortunately due to other severe withdrawal symptoms i had to start prozac. If you want you can try it. These are natural salts .they dont have any side effects .

[Altostrata]

Hello, multi. I am sorry you are doing so poorly.

 

It sounds to me like the Lamictal reductions might have been too fast or too soon after your other drug reductions.

 

Is the knocking worse at any time of day?

 

Can you increase the Lamictal a bit to see if that helps? Perhaps to 78mg to try it out?

[Multidrug]

The knocking is horrible all day long and gets worse in intensity the later it gets. So it`s always the worst in the evening. But I wake up with it every day. And the worse the knocking, the worse the racing thoughts which are just unbearable.

 

I had two weeks in March when everything settled down a bit and on three days the knocking was gone. But it came back after I had the tiniest bit of "stress" (a call from a friend).

 

Alto, maybe you are right. I was doing a million times better when I was still on 100mg of the Lamictal. I only started the taper because I felt kind of stable and OK to do it. That whole misery started a while after I reached 85mg or so.

 

I will take 78 mg tonight. I wonder if I should go up to 100 right away to make this hell stop.

[SquirrellyGirl]

Hi Multi, so glad you are still out there - it's been a long time since we checked in with each other!

 

No no no, don't go up to 100!  Do as Alto says!  You've likely been healing to some degree and exceeding your level of healing could throw you for a major loop in another way!  Give that up-dose a try, give it a week, and then reassess.  At that time a tiny bit more can be added, and so on, depending on the results.  And of course, if the immediate result is BAD, then go right back where you were.

 

Love and hugs to you!!!

SG

[JanCarol]

Hey Multi - welcome back, though I'm sorry times are still tough for you.

 

I think your "head exploding" was a combination of withdrawal from your polydrugging of 2014 (you were still just a year out from that) combined with your withdrawal from Seroquel.  The delayed reactions on these things is cruel.

 

Carl Sagan used to say that the danger of a drug was the delay.  He thought that if you had to wait for the effects, that it was incredibly dangerous - but that if the effects were short acting and short lived (he smoked cannabis, for example), that it was a safer drug.  These drugs take weeks and months to do their evil tricks - and so, by his standard, would be the most dangerous drugs of all.

 

These psych drugs have built fences and lattices and entire towers of structure in your brain, and when you came off of them, the tower fell.  That's what Petunia was calling a "crash," and what you called an "explosion."  It was like a demolition of the structures the drugs built.

 

It is important to stay calm, keep taking the lamictil (sorry, but Alto is too often right to ignore).  Did you try the 78 mg?  Did that help?

 

And find small things that improve your lot.  If it means not taking phone calls, and waiting in a quiet dark room for the knocking to stop, then it is.  A lot of this sounds like akathisia.    http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2016-tremors-shaking-body-vibration/

or http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/32-akathisia-vs-restlessness-anxiety-agitation/

 

And I agree with many that akathisia is the most difficult symptom to get through.  But you can do it.  Others have done it.  I'm not suggesting it is easy, it will be likely be a huge challenge - like climbing Mt. Everest alone in the dark with an infernal racket in your head.  

Please come here, talk to others if you can, who have been through this.  Fresh comes to mind right off the bat, she is our most recent akathisia survivor, and is a positive person to talk to.  It's difficult, but doable.

 

And when you come out the other side, you will still be young, you will be able to build up strength - and you will know your abilities so much better.  I'm glad you have your Mom to run interference for you; that has to help immensely (thank her, it's probably difficult for her, too!).

 

Take care, and I hope you can catch a glimpse of the sun today!

[Multidrug]

Hello all,

 

just a little sign that I am still breathing. Still, nothing has changed since last year September. God I just cant believe it.

My brain just feels damaged beyond repair. Still got the knocking which gets worse with every tiny bit of "stress", still the feeling of stitches under my sculp. My cognitive abilities are just shot, I am unable to take any decisions, unable to calm down, unable to socialize, no noise, no music, no conversations....no nothing.

 

I am still on These damn 77.5 mg of the Lamictal because I hoped to stabilise somewhat. Well, this is just NOT happening.

 

Guys, really now, I don't know what to do anymore. What if I am waiting for something that just wont happen???? Where is that f.... stabilization??? I am 24 months off Seroquel and 20 months off the benzo.

 

I got horrible attacks of rage and aggression. Often I am terrified to do something terrible to my mother because of the feeling of losing control. The racing and OCD thoughts are getting worse. Actually all the mental Symptoms are getting worse.

 

Noone can tell me what is going on. I cannot see any patterns after taking the Lamictal. I am just sure that it works activating on me. If I reduce it by maybe 2.5 mg a month, can that cause so much damage??? I tried to be patient for so long but this thing is getting more and more unbearable. I just HAVE to do something!!!!

 

Thank you for reading

Multi

 

(Dear squirelly girl.....I never forgot you!!!! I just don't have the strength to keep up any contacts. I am so sorry for that and hope you are not just ok but doing fine! I send you a hug)

[brassmonkey]

Hi Multi-- I'm sorry to hear that things are still being so rough. Have your symptoms settled into a consistent level of feeling bad or do they wildly fluctuate all over the place? Stabilization is not the absence of symptoms rather a consistent level of feeling bad.  It sounds from your post that things are pretty much staying the same most of the time. That would indicate that you could go ahead and start a slow controlled taper.

 

Your signature says that you are thinking about 2.5% every two weeks.  That would be a good place to start, but I'd throw in an additional 2 week hold every two drops.  Another way would be to drop 1.25% a week for four weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks. This would minimize and symptoms that may crop up from the drops.

 

Please bring your signature up to date, it will really help us to see what is going on and make better suggestions.

[Multidrug]

Dear BrassMonkey,

 

thanks for the reply. I only have Internet on my mobile phone here and I don't know if it is because of that but I cannot find the place to change my signature here. Anyway there is no change I think. I was on 77.5 mg Lamotrigine for a long time (maybe 10 months) after I was able to reduce last year from April till July without any problems 5mg a month. My "crash" then in September was caused by the fact that I lost my relationship and because of the horrible stress I set myself in because of that and not because of the reduction. I am very sure about that.

 

Ever since, I am just horrible and my mind is never calming down even though I am ok with the break up now. But the knocking is still there and gets worse every time there is a "change" in the outside or stress. I just cant handle anything at all and my brain is unable to process anything or cope with any kind of stimuli.

 

I just don't know what to do anymore. I went down to 75mg last night. I don't know what will happen but I have been holding the dose for so long and that is just making me crazy.

 

Multi