eiledon20 - pristiq and clonazepam taper.

[HopeNeeded]

Eiledon - Just checking in. I am still doing pretty horribly, but glad to see that things are at least slightly improving for you. Keep me posted. xo

[eiledon20]

Just woke up this morning with memories of my loved one. I dunno if what I'm feeling is withdrawal or just my feelings of missing her.

 

3 weeks ago, I was down to 1/8 of 50mg pristiq, I was feeling better as I go down my dosage, so the week after, I tried stopping. No head zaps, just the usual fatigue specially in the morning.

 

Been off pristiq for two weeks now. Feeling better but lazy to go out (as usual even when i was on pristiq), waiting for my brain to re-adjust itself?. I can go swimming for a short time-  2 times a week as the public pool is about 300 meters from our place. Usually in the late afternoon as the sun is really hot.

 

Oh i must say I am less lazier or fatigued. Maybe my body is re-adjusting from the absence of the medications?

 

I went swimming yesterday and I felt lighter afterwards, must be the endorphins. I just felt tired today perhaps because of the swimming.

 

Trying not to overthink any possible "withdrawal". I hope my body and brain and body re-adjust to normality........i guess TIME is the ingredient here?

 

Wish me luck and thank you for everyone who was helping me. Specially alto.

 

I was trying to find meaning or purpose why I am still alive and surviving from this illness and medications....

 

Maybe I will find the answer when I least expect it......maybe someday...

[eiledon20]

Trying to keep busy with "other" things also seem to smoothen out any withdrawal effects or feelings. Will try to do what i enjoyed most while in the house.

 

Will try to do more swimming and talk to strangers also seem to bring new light. Maybe developing new fruendships also broadens or heals the brain... dont know really.... "sometimes" ignorance can be bliss.

[Altostrata]

Good for you! Yes, contact with congenial people, even animals, is soothing to our nervous systems.

[eiledon20]

Thank you altostrata for all the help.

 

I am wondering why i dont feel the head zaps most were experiencing when tapering or under withdrawal. I did feel some "headzaps" while i was ON pristiq and clonazepam. More like kind of cold chill in the head and back when waking up. Kinda weird. Like a startled feeling upon waking up. Like a bomb went off somewhere.

 

I still continue taking my b-vitamins and fish oil. Bcomplex was given by pdoc at the start of my treatment for muscle stiffness and pain. He said the covering of the muscles above my brain was somehow "damaged". Maybe due to shock i am not sure. One tablet per day he said and not overdo the bcomplex. Nevramin or neurobion tablets just dont take both.

 

The fish oil i am not sure is relaxing or activating. But i think it heals muscle or nerve. Ive read somewhere it helps.

 

Now i don't know if fish oil is sensitizing or activating for people with sensitive body chemistry.

 

It is hard to know which one is causing what i might be feeling as i go down the road without the two meds that i tapered and stopped.

[eiledon20]

Sometimes i dont wanna read other people's experiences. It might not be good for me and might "cause" anxiety or fear.

 

We may have diffrent cases and body chemistries. So one thing or symptom that is happeing to some might not be applicable to me. Human beings are a puzzle really.

 

By the way, i woke up earlier this morning. I dont know, i dont feel sleepy as usual. Maybe it was the chocolate milk i drank last night. i think i should limit that.

 

You see what i am saying. It is hard to know which one is causing which. 2 weeks without any pristiq now and sometimes im really puzzled why i have different "symptoms"...

 

I know b-complex can be very activating for most people. I am just not sure if i should also taper or stop it.

 

Is fish oil activating or relaxing to the brain for most people?.....

 

Can the brain or neurotransmitters heal itself without fish oil or other supplements. Or time is all we need?

[eiledon20]

I take neurobion b-complex after my first meal of the day and the fish oil at night. I might reconsider not taking the fish oil one night then resume taking it in the morning. I dont wanna take anything that might be too activatinñg or stimulating for now.

 

Oh by the way when i was well some years back, taking b-complex even in low doses do make me somehow stimulated. It made me hard to go to sleep as well.

 

Im the kind of person who cannot tolerate coffee or coca cola. The are very activating for me and causes difficulty in falling asleep. Sometimes people say the coke thing it is just in my head, hays....some people dont understand really. I was a strong soda drinker when i was young. Maybe that screwed up my brain as well.

 

People please don't get me wrong. The meds pristiq did help me at the start to lift my "depression", but i find it is also activating and extreme side effects for me. I even told my doctor who is also neurologist/psychiatrist that my left foot always stiffens unconciously, he said it is not from the pristiq. Now who am i to know better?! i am not a doctor. I am just a human being.

 

After four months, I told him i cannot tolerate this AD anymore. It is either i taper down or switch to another. He agreed to taper than to try another antidepressant, maybe he saw my adverse reactions to antidepressants before and he said it seems i am not the kind of person that needs to take AD for a very long or for life.

 

So i am here now... hoping for my brain to heal or re adjust....

[eiledon20]

Hmmm it's been two weeks since being off pristiq. And i think the brain shiver is now acting up

 

I swim again this afternoon, good thing there is a pool some 200 meters near our place. I try to push myself to swim as i felt a little better afterwards usually.

 

I think i had a brain shiver when i woke up after i fell asleep for 15 mins. It is like my head is being inflated. Part of withdrawal i guess. This shiver or "zap" usually happens when i wake up from short sleep. And have a mild dread or fear feeling (is this the cortisol acting up?) But quickly goes away....

 

So does this mean my brain and body is healing or going back to normal without the meds. I hope so. Hope is what i cling to nowadays.

[apace41]

Eiledon,

 

Stopping by to thank you for posting on my thread and to check out your story.  So sorry to hear about your loss.  I agree with NZ that creates a depression in anyone.  The disconnectedness you felt and the derealization could have been short-lived but it's hard to say.  Regardless, you are where you are.  You've done well coming off 2 drugs at the same time (clonazepam is tough as far as benzos go) but you need to stay vigilant because you are so recently off you have options if things go sideways a little.  Hopefully, that will not be the case and your trajectory will be up from here.

 

I've not heard of fish oil being "activating" but everyone is different and it's always hard to say.  The one thing I can say with comfort is that you are not bipolar based on what I've read.  As both Alto and NZ said earlier, that is a bunch of "bunk", "malarkey", "bullcrap", "nonsense" -- fill in your own choice word.  I view doctors who try to label post-depressive people as being "bipolar" as the worst of the worst because they create the stage for polydrugging their patients to no good end.

 

Hang in there and I think you will continue on the ascendancy.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[eiledon20]

Thank you so much Andy. Actually my pdoc does not want another addition of drug. I told him either i taper this one down or switch to another. He said he does not want another switch.

 

Alright then, this morning i woke up with some form of head shiver or bloating. "Zap" is not the word i guess. It is more like i was a kid and had a scary feeling in my head. I dunno if withdrawal is catching up with me or because of my exercise yesterday. Whew this is hard to tell.

[eiledon20]

It's like i am kid again and i remember having that kind of fear when i was a kid. **** that is kinda crappy.

 

Maybe i need psychotheraphy. It's just i am having trouble commuting for longer distances. I had tried theraphy last year but i think i got worst from it or from the depakote that was given to me. Or maybe i was grieving to intensely last year. It really is a puzzle to me now.

 

What if theraphy is making me worst or digging deep or talking too much about it is not good for me...i dont know now really. Maybe i could try theraphy once this withdrawal mess is over.

 

Is keeping busy with other things drown this symptoms. Mornings are usually the most difficult part for me.

[eiledon20]

Is exercising causing hormones or chemicals in my head to activate to much? Im really not familiar with cortisol that much. Is that whats causing morning feeling of weirdness? I might limit my swimming then.

 

My sister who i am staying now says i must not read too much about this things on the internet. Well she has a point. But how can i help myself if i am not informed?...

 

I would not have learned about tapering if not for the internet.

My pdoc did not warn me or specifically said that i need to taper the depakote last year. I blindly took it and when i complained about it and said i tried half tablet, he did not mention about withdrawal from psych drugs.

 

Maybe the head burning i felt when i first took pristiq was a combination of many chemicals in my head like the depakote. I was not informed then. I really am not sure if switching pdocs will do any good. I was warned against it by my sister that another pdoc switch might get me started anew. Another set of drugs which most likely be antidepressants or mood stabilizers again.

 

I remeber he said antidepressants are not addicting. Yeah right but withdrawal is there. They just use the word "discontinuation symptoms"

 

Maybe i should alot a fixed time on the internet for reading my sickness maybe an hour a day?

 

BUT think antidepressants can save lives if taken for a limited time, its just that the side effects are a beast for some people like me.

[eiledon20]

I had a window of recovery i think this afternoon. Afternoons are usually better. Maybe because of the vitamin b-complex i take, or my brain is recovering.

 

Took a short bike ride around 5pm. Not really in a happy mood. Not depressed either. Just neutral. Pushing myself to do something outside of of our small apartment everyday.

 

My sense smell is better now than when i was on my meds.

 

Cmon brain, cooperate and heal.

[eiledon20]

I will try not to take fish oil and see if the head chill lessens tomorrow morning

[eiledon20]

It seems today is not a good day.

 

Woke up with that dread feeling in the head again. I guess its either cortisol or withdrawal.

 

And thinking about the what ifs in my life. I dunno if withdrawal worsens these thoughts.

 

Also lately, morning erections are getting fewer. Is zero libido normal in withdrawal.

 

tomorrow is another day. There are days that sometimes i loose hope. I hope we could all live together in a camp so we have actual face to face communications

 

It is very hard to talk to my brother about these things. They just cannot relate to my hellish illness.

 

SOMETIMES, I think since we will all die someday, maybe God can take me away now and end the suffering ...

 

Or maybe not...i still want to live...

[eiledon20]

I need support guys. Has anyone with severe deoression able to survive this depression and the meds and the tapering....meaning they got back to their old selvess.

[Fresh]

Lots of people have eiledon , and you will too.  

But get used to the idea that you're most likely going to feel pretty bad for a while - sorry to say but it's true.  You would be in the minority if you continue to have constant improvement from this point.  

You will most likely have a whole range of symptoms and sensations in different parts of your body , they will come and go and change sometimes by the hour.  Your appetite may decrease , your sleep become disturbed , and it will all be related to stopping Pristiq.

If you look in the Symptoms and Self Care section you'll find discussions about individual symptoms and how you might manage them. Don't let any new symptoms shock you or get you panicked - just know that it's the discontinuation and reassure yourself that it will pass.

 

If you get into a total panic and can't handle it , you might try taking a crumb of pristiq and see if that gives any relief.  

 

Nothing that comes during withdrawal can kill you or hurt you - they're just thoughts and sensations.

 

I was reading the thread on Omega 3's , King of Supplements , and it seems some people do find fish oil activating.   Here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil

 

After I stopped pristiq in 2013 I had a few months of hypo-manic symptoms , so they decided I have a bi-polar disorder and told me I will need mood stabilizers for the rest of my life.  

I took them for 2 months and stopped.  That was 11 months ago , and have had no recurrence of either manic or depressive symptoms.

 

I agree that a diagnosis of bipolar is irrelevant in context of your ad usage.   

 

You're going to get through this eiledon , just do what you can each day.  Not too much exercise - be gentle with yourself.

[eiledon20]

Thank you so much fresh. Maybe what i needed are crumbs of pristiq, i will try to leak some when my mood changes to depression.

 

Maybe crumbs is what i needed all along...

I just had so much adverse reaction to antidepressants. Super sensitive body and brain perhaps?

 

How long were you on pristiq and how long did you taper?

[eiledon20]

I have less appetite now. So this is withdrawal? I thought my body is readjusting

 

IS LEAKING CRUMBS really helpful? Pleese remember i had adverse reaction this drug.

 

So i will leak some a few times a day, whenever i feel super down or gloomy?

[eiledon20]

Thank you so much FRESH. Maybe what i needed are crumbs of pristiq, i will try to leak some when my mood changes to depression. But my stomach feels better now than when i was on pristiq, hated the contispation and restless feeling.

 

Maybe crumbs is what i needed all along...

I just had so much adverse reaction to antidepressants. Super sensitive body and brain perhaps?

 

How long were you on pristiq and how long did you taper?

[eiledon20]

Leaked the side of a cut 1/8 pill. Wow that was almost non existent. Hmm i dunno if it is placebo effect. I felt different. Less gloomy i suppose....

[Fresh]

I suspect it is withdrawal . . . symptoms can include changes in mood and appetite and energy.

These are separate from physical symptoms like waking with "dread in the head"  , or in a panic state (which is the cortisol surges) , or feeling buzzy , whooshy sensations when you turn your head quickly.

 

Read this thread  "About Reinstating and Stabilizing . . . "  here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7562-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

If taking (leaking?) a crumb helped ease your symptoms , then you know they were from withdrawal.

 

Let's see how the next 24 hours go.

 

Re my taper:  I started taking 50mg pristiq in July last year , and waited 8 months to stabilize before beginning to taper.  Have come down to 30mg since February.  Am doing really well . . . you can read my thread here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8452-freshs-fractured-fairytale-how-much-can-a-koala-bear/

[eiledon20]

About possible reinstating.

 

Came from pdoc. Earlier I sent him an SMS message about bad thoughts and negative thoughts that we should discuss. I should have shut my mouth because when i got there i was not having those thoughts anymore.

 

He wants me back to full dosage of 50mg pristiq, after tapering for 6 weeks from 4months of 50mg pristiq. Currently 20 days without pristiq.

 

I also tapered 2-3 months on/off 0.5mg klonopin use, the same time as pristiq but tapered it faster. I dont want to have dependence. It was maybe mainly given for sleep or to counter the side effects of the pristiq?

 

I was thinking of taking just maybe 1/4 or maybe smaller. I always insisted i had a bad reaction to these drugs specially initially. Thats why i tapered on the 4th month.

 

He said its up to me, he said this AD has very little adverse effects, like maybe 0.001% of those printed on the internet. And he has patients taking these for longer. Well i dont want to be like them so i am not going the full dosage.

 

Well i want to say that I had maybe 80% of those side effects. I just shut my mouth this time.

 

Will try crumbs or 1/8 pill tomorrow. Crossing my fingers for minor side effects.

 

By the way i asked him if by slowly removing the SNRI, if the neuron receptors will grow back on its own. He said ADs just 50% of the cure, the other 50% should come from us. I should mingle with people and not stay in my coccoon. Neuroplasticity is not automatic, the neuron receptor needs our input to grow back. Any doctors here that agree with this. Before, I thought it was automatic.

[Altostrata]

Those are typically clueless responses from a psychiatrist. Very, very few know anything about withdrawal syndrome.

 

Sleeplessness is a common, not rare, side effect of antidepressants.

 

Many, many people have adverse reactions to antidepressants. They cause sexual dysfunction at least 50% of the time.

 

eiledon, Effexor is a close relative of Pristiq. If you feel you really need to reinstate, you might get a prescription for Effexor XR, open the capsule, and take a few beads each day. If you get a tablet, you would take perhaps a few milligrams each day.

[eiledon20]

Okay. Crumbs of pristiq won't do? I dont have a script for effexore.

 

I am still weighing things very carefully before reinstating.

 

If ever, i will try the smallest dose possible. Im scared because of the severe headache i had while taking the full dose last january. I needed the clonazeoam then to sleep! ****

 

Thanks alto.

[eiledon20]

How about sexual dysfunction while withdrawing? I dont have any libido for the past 10 days... jump off 20 days ago.

 

Have sexual dysfunction too while on the AD and of course "low dose" (hated that term he used) clonazepam.

 

 

What i like now is i enjoy music now more than while i was on the drug. Though sometimes i played the ipod and cd player too loud. street sounds near my window are annoying again.

 

The sound of the air fan in my room is peaceful. I was not able to notice these things while in deep depression. Seems everything is dead. And lots of confusion.

[Altostrata]

Crumbs of Pristiq might tide you over for a while, but judging the dosage is difficult.

 

Please go to the Symptoms forum and search for PSSD, our topic on sexual dysfunction.

[eiledon20]

Thanks so much alto. So if i take a very small piece and felt better, it means i need to reinstate that dose? (Sorry, mild brain fog)

 

BUT I AM NEVER GOING BACK ON THE FULL TABLET.

[Altostrata]

Taking a crumb consistently is reinstatement at a low dose.

 

No, you may never have to go back on a full dose.

[eiledon20]

Thanks so much alto. Feeling relieved and positive.

 

If i ever get to the states someday, i hope to meet some of you personally. Also FRESH and others i have forgotten for now...

[Fresh]

Something to consider eiledon , as discussed on the thread about "Tips for Tapering Pristiq":

 

Once you're taking fragments or dust of pristiq , you may get "dose-dumping" , where it gets absorbed too quickly and gives symptoms , as well as "interdose withdrawal" , where you get w/d symptoms each time the dose wears off.

Taking effexor avoids this , because each tiny ball has it's own time-release coating.  

It's probably more sensible to count out 20 balls a day than to weigh pristiq dust , even if you use a digital scale.

 

I'm in Sydney Australia - let me know if you're in the neighbourhood!

[eiledon20]

I have not reinstated.

 

I swam again this afternoon for 30mins.

 

Now at 8pm. My mood is good. Im dancing to an 80s record now.

[eiledon20]

Hi FRESH.

 

Im in Asia now.

[eiledon20]

Hi alto and everyone with experience in memory loss.

 

I wonder if it is safe to take L-tryptophan or 5HTP for memory loss.

 

I am only using omega 3 fish oil, once a day. Might updose if it will have no adverse effect.

 

Also taking a B-Complex and Centrum multivitamin.

 

Tried working again tonight, it seems I am more alert or relaxed at night. I tried working on the computer but had difficulty relisting some items I used to sell on ebay. I have two accounts, takes time to arrange which item goes to which account.

 

For example I have 30 items: 20 items goes to account one. 10 items goes to account 2. Sometimes i double list and have to do it over.

 

Please advice, I need to improve my memory.

 

THANKS.

[eiledon20]

Watched a little porn and had an orgasm in less than 15 mins.

 

Wow i hope that sexual dysfunction thing is temporary.

 

This is a window?

[eiledon20]

Very lightheaded today. I don't know what this is...