dreamspirit: my journey - it sucks

[dreamspirit]

I just sent you a private message, tgirl.

[dreamspirit]

Well, still feeling like crap off and on.. it's mainly stomach issues/ nausea.. 13 weeks since I reinstated back to my original dose.

 

When I got to week 6-7 I felt pretty good and felt good since then until 2-3 weeks ago when I had a stressful situation happen and then it felt like that brought back some withdrawl symptoms again and been feeling like that off and on since.

Hopefully it will stabilize soon.. ugh! Hate feeling this way.

[tgirl]

Hang in there dream spirit,

 

Windows and waves even after reinstatement!

Tgirl

[dreamspirit]

I'm hanging in there.. I'm so ready to stabilize so I can start a new very slow taper but I'm aware that it might takes months or even a year to fully restablize.

[dreamspirit]

So much anxiety today.. it's driving me nuts.. I'm sure that having my period due in a week don't help.

[dreamspirit]

My 12 year old son and I took a nice walk tonight around the block.. that definitely helped the anxiety.

Then we walked to burger King so he could get some dinner. I made him order by himself because he has so much anxiety.. but that's a different story... I'm just glad it helped with my anxiety.. probably take a walk tomorrow too.. get all the Walking in before winter hits...

[MollyN]

Hi dreamspirit, I'm so impressed by your long taper and desperately disappointed that it even this was too much and that you're having to start again, but I want to extend you a huge virtual hug and wish you all the very best on your new taper when it starts. I'm also on paxil and I hate it (with an extreme intensity presently since I dropped too quickly and now am suffering horribly (along with my family!)

 

xxx I'll be following your no doubt awesome progress xxx

[dreamspirit]

Thank you, Molly! I know it's a real bummer that I have to start all over but I will be going even slower this time. If it takes me 10 years to get off without the withdrawls then that's what I'm aiming for.. How long have you been on Paxil?

[MollyN]

It's funny how getting off feels so hugely important at first - until you hit the withdrawals then you realize you'll take forever if it means you don't have to suffer so violently!

 

I've been at 20mg since 2008 (I'll add a smiley face  to mask the intense bubbling  anger I feel at the entire money-making  industry! and another    because I know I'm feeling intense feelings due to this lastest stupid drop! Very very best of luck to you xxxxx

[dreamspirit]

How do you know if your in paxil poop out?

I reinstated back up to my 40mg after getting down to 30mg.

 

It's been 13 almost 14 weeks since I reinstated. Took 6 weeks to feel better and then I felt pretty good until like 3 weeks ago when I had a stressful situation and since then I've have had what feels like some withdrawl symptoms off and on.

 

I get these andrenaline surges, get hot flashes, some anxiety, stomach don't feel good, some insomnia..

 

How do I know if that is just a window or wave and if it's poop out?

 

Do I need to up my dose by a couple milligrams or start decreasing it or just leave it?

 

Any help would be appreciated.

[dreamspirit]

I've also have had some dizzy spells to but I think I have a sinus infection. Last night when I turned my head to the side I got dizzy.

[dreamspirit]

Also I have some herbal lemon and ginger tea.. do you think that would be ok to drink for stomach upset or should I stay away from that.

And if someone could respond to my prior two posts, that would be great.

Thank you!

[dreamspirit]

Now tonight I feel fine.. not sure if it's because I'm in a wave or that because the paxil pill I took last night has been wearing off so it makes me feel better??

 

I get these sweats like you get when your trying to fight something off too.

[AliG]

Dreamspirit,

 

Often stress, can bring on a wave of symptoms.   I would just hold , if I were you and wait for things to settle down. It's best not to drop if you're having symptoms. Dizziness is a common withdrawal symptom.  Lemon & ginger tea, shouldn't be a problem. It will probably help.

 

Try and be patient, if you can. 

[LexAnger]

I agree with AliG, just hold for now. You are already at very high dose, a even higher dose is not a good thing to try. While your system is trying to stabilize, either increase or decrease dose will introduce more stress and cause more symptoms.

 

You already feel better after the dose increase which is a good sigh but our system needs lots time to adjust in every way all changes. Maybe you can just focus on feeling better each day not even worry about the future taper. That can wait until you feel fine.

 

I completely feel you and why you think the way you do, it's the terrible symptoms you suffer and how the drug makes our brain think. The most difficult thing in the whole world for a human being.

 

You are not alone, We are all suffering in a similar manner. And we will support each other getting through the waves.

 

Hugs to you

Lex

[dreamspirit]

Thanks so much! Do You Guys Don't Think It's Paxil Poop Out then?

[dreamspirit]

Feel better today but still have some lightheadedness and the sweating..

You know how you sweat when you have a fever or when your body is trying to fight off a virus..

That is what the sweating is like..

[dreamspirit]

Oh and tired..

[brassmonkey]

Hi DS-- I'm so sorry to hear that you've been hit by such a bad wave.  It sounds like it is moving on though and things are settling down.  Poopout doesn't just happen overnight, it creeps up on you slowly.  Many don't really notice it until things get really bad. It also doesn't just go away like a wave does.  This sounds like a wave brought on by what was happening in your life.  In a way that's a good thing, because poopout is no fun for a long time.

 

(((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))

[dreamspirit]

Thanks so much, Brass! For coming over to reply to my thread.

 

I still have a little bit of blurry vision and my head feels all stuffy with a headache once in awhile..and lightheadedness. That's how I feel today.

 

Yeah, it's funny how I can have a stomach ache during the day and feel like crap but then night comes and I feel better.

 

So actually it could take up to a year to fully feel better and fully stabilize??

[dreamspirit]

So today I feel alright.. I just been having the shakes a little bit and when I get up and move around I get so hot. Like hot flushes.. and my eyesight is a little blurry..

 

If I remember correctly, from my very first crash is that the blurry eye sight was the last thing to go and it took a long time too.. and it cost me $400 at the eye doctors lol..

 

My last crash a few years ago wasn't because I was tapering if was because I had switched to a different manufacturer and it took months but it put me into a full blown withdrawl and I had no idea what was wrong with me until I started doing research online.. I didn't know it caused blurry eye sight so I had went to the eye doctor and walked out spending $400 thinking there really was something wrong with my eye sight but there wasn't..

 

Anyway, I hope I stabilize more and more as time goes on.

 

I had a question about Zyrtec (Allergy med).. I thought I read something about that it's bad to take because it raises serotonin??

 

I've been taking it almost everyday for years...

[JanCarol]

Hey Dream, sorry you had to updose.  But thank goodness you are here, at SA, where other people understand how you feel!  

(by the way, I'm a former Hoosier, with relatives in Chelsea, MI, and lots of happy memories all over the lower peninsula, some as recent as 2002, when my now-hubby and I went to Sleeping Bear Dunes and Interlochen and Traverse City. I have lovely childhood memories of Michigan cherries and Murdick's fudge!)

 

You wrote:

 

 why I didn't feel any withdrawl symptoms the whole time I was tapering for over a year until 9 weeks ago when I crashed? 

 

Withdrawal is a funky thing.  The chemical is usually all the way gone before you start having symptoms.  This is because the drugs interfere with normal neurogenesis (creation of neurons) and when that process regulates, you are extremely sensitive to the neurons as they are created and repopulate your transmitter systems.  In plain English:  delayed or tardive withdrawal response, and it's so common.  Some people feel something the day they quit (especially on the short half-life drugs), and some people feel fine - even amazing - for 6 months before the heavy load hits.

 

This is why we are so slow, and so careful, because we never know when the hammer is going to drop - or even if it will drop at all!  But because it is so awful when it does drop, we prepare for it as if it will.  Some people say the 4 month mark was critical for them - some say 6, 8, or 10 months.  A few haven't felt a thing until 18 months out, when a situation in their life caused it all to come crashing down.

 

So I guess what I'm saying, is that your experience is well within the range of "normal" for withdrawal from these drugs.  And to emphasize to you - this delayed reaction is why we are so careful here at SA.

 

Then you wrote:

 

I've been fine lately but a few days ago I had a stressful situation and it gave me a small anxiety attack and since then it almost feels like it triggered some withdrawl back. Is that possible?

 

 

This, too, is well within the "normal" of responses to antidepressant withdrawal.  Ali said so, too - that an event in your life shakes you up and you have to start over.  Because you are in that hypersensitive time when your neurons are re-regulating, a shock can really throw you for a loop!  For some people it was just a workout session that was too much, or something awful like illness or death in the family - or maybe it was something like watching a loud movie at the cinemas or going into a crowded shopping mall.

 

In hindsight, it might have been better if you only updosed to your last taper amount, instead of the full 40 mg.  I'm sorry nobody was available to suggest that to you.  We reinstate the smallest possible amount, to avoid side effects and symptoms, and so that less ground is lost.  Please see:  About Reinstating and Stabilizing to Stop Withdrawal Symptoms 

 

It may be too late this time, but perhaps if you run into this problem again, you will have this tool in your back pocket to use.  I would've suggested something like 33 mg, wait for 4 days, to see if it helps - and if that is better - hold there.  If after a week to 10 days, it's still not better, then take it up to 35 mg.  (for example).  Just something to remember for future.

 

Recently, you wrote: 

 

Well, still feeling like crap off and on.. it's mainly stomach issues/ nausea.. 13 weeks since I reinstated back to my original dose. 

Ah, as I was told:  welcome to the gut club.

 

Ginger tea with lemon is good.  Mint teas are good, too.  Have you contemplated any of the diets to help heal?  GAPS is one, Paleo has helped many, some have even been helped by versions of ketogenic diets.  Many people (myself included) have found wheat and dairy to be very inflammatory.  There's also FODMAPS, but I found that to be very restrictive.

 

What I do, is when I'm sick, I drop back to GAPS broth, and gradually add foods until I feel better.  I've also added digestive enzymes when I want to eat something which is "questionable" like wheat or cheese or other milk products.

 

The advantages of eating more fats helps your brain (especially coconut oil), as well as helps you lose weight (ketosis).  

 

Also, are you on Magnesium and Omega-3 fish oil  ?  These too, will help your healing.

 

Lastly you commented:

 

I'm sure that having my period due in a week don't help. 

 

OMG Oh!  You are indeed a warrior!

 

 I'm sure that having my period due in a week don't help. 

 

I cannot imagine going through withdrawal while having regular cycles.  I simply cannot imagine it! 

 

It was one of my positive ticks when I decided to reduce and possibly go off my drugs - was that I no longer have that cycle to contend with!

 

So ONYA for being a brave dreamspirit!  (that's Aussie for "hooray!")

 

I hope you see the sun today.

[dreamspirit]

Thanks so much Jan, for replying. Back when I crashed I did up dose to 1 extra mg and I didn't notice any change and then I added another mg and still didn't notice anything and then I just got desperate and caved in and went back up to my original dose.

 

Next time when I taper I will be going eXtra slow.. it always takes months for my withdrawl symptoms to show up..

 

So I may only do two small drops the first year of tapering to see how my body reacts otherwise since I don't get any symptoms for months on end and I keep tapering it will all build up and I will crash again.

 

Yes, I take magnesium,fish oil,Vitamin d3, vitamin E, vitamin C, multivitamin, melatonin.

 

My husband and I lived over by Ludington for 13 years we just moved this past May to Allegan due to work.. we loved it up north but there is just not any good paying jobs unfortunately.

 

All my family either lives in Traverse city, Grand rapids or Holland.

 

My son and I took a walk tonight again. It felt nice to walk in the coolness especially since I've been getting heat flashes when I move around and before I know it, it will be snowing (Boo)!

[dreamspirit]

Feel ok today. Not 100% but better. Boy, it takes a long time to get 100% stabilized again..

 

Still would like to know about the antihistamine thing.. since I have been taking Zyrtec for years and a allergy nasal spray.. I don't do the nasal spray all the time though.

 

Another thing I was wondering... if someone decides to take a antidepressant for their whole adult life.. do they all poop out eventually or do some poop out and some don't?

[dreamspirit]

I have a appt with a Phyc doctor next week and I'm going to cancel it.. I'm sure all she will want to do is put me on some other med..

I made this appt when I crashed and was in big time withdrawl...

 

As far as how I have been feeling..it's kinda been up and down..have decent days and down days... still somewhat lightheaded, tired, feel down, not really depressed to where I feel like crying but don't really feel like doing anything.

 

I can laugh at things here and there.. been taking naps and staying away from stressful things.

 

It's crazy how long a reinstatement can take... I guess it hasn't been that long for me.. 14 weeks ago is when I reinstated but 6 out of those 14 weeks it took to just start to feel better after my crash.

 

Does anyone know about the antihistamine thing I asked in my above post?

[dreamspirit]

Well, I just canceled my psyc appt. I waited 3 months for this appt but I know she will just want to prescribe more meds.

The lady on the phone was like.. (You sure you want to cancel because if you reschedule if will be another long wait). I said, yes I'm sure..

 

I've been feeling off and on yet. Sometimes my head will feel stuffy with a headache, and some lightheadedness.

Also some days I feel more anxious than others.. one day this week though I felt almost totally normal.. then it went away.. Boo!

 

I think I'm too in tuned to the way I feel and I over analyze which can made symptoms worse..

 

My 12 year old son and I took 3 short walks outside this past week. Maybe we will take one tonight too depending on the weather. Supposed to be really cold this weekend, only high of 47 degrees Brrr...

 

Not looking forward to winter...

 

Oh does anyone know if your supposed to take vitamin E with fish oil? I've heard the fish oil works better if you take vitamin E??

[dreamspirit]

Oh nevermind about the Vitamin E question.. I see that yes it helps the fish oil..

 

I believe I use Kirkland fish oil and it's 1000mg.. I take only 1 capsule a day. I guess I should be taking more??

 

I would definitely say it does help with brain zaps because I've never really have suffered from them.. Thank goodness!

[quitpaxil2015]

Hi Dreamspirit, just want you to know you are in my thoughts. QP

[dreamspirit]

Awe! Thank you, QP! I appreciate that. You as well..

[tgirl]

Hey dream,

 

Thanks for stopping by my thread.

if you look in symptoms and self care, there is a lot of info on fish oil and dpa dha.

I'm so glad that you get sleep.

Hope your feeling better!

Tgirl

[dreamspirit]

Yep, found that thread. Lots of great info to read here. :-)

 

I really haven't had to much of a problem sleeping thank goodness but during the beginning of my reinstatement I did have insomnia and it sucked.

[JanCarol]

I said:

 

 

Ah, as I was told:  welcome to the gut club.

 

I forgot to say - the gut is the "second brain," containing something like 85% of all of the serotonin in our body.  It is why SSRI's are so harmful - most of the serotonin floods happen elsewhere than in the brain!

 

You asked:  

 

 

Still would like to know about the antihistamine thing.. since I have been taking Zyrtec for years and a allergy nasal spray

 

Oh golly.  This hit me too close to home.  I am JanCarol and I am addicted to antihistamines (seasonally, but still take them because I never know)

 

If you read the history of psych drugs, you will see that tricyclics and antihistamines are close kin.  Many psych drugs came out of the antihistamine stable.  

 

The newer, non-drowsy antihistamines (like Zyrtec) are still kin.  If you look at the drug names, they "sound" like psych drugs.  Zyrtec = Ceterizine.  Now I'm no chemist, but the "drug name" has some clues about how the drug is derived, or the action of the drug.

 

Just to be sure, I ran it in Drugs.com interaction checker:  http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.php

Interactions between your selected drugs

Moderate clonazepam  paroxetine

Applies to: Klonopin (clonazepam), Paxil (paroxetine)

Using clonazePAM together with PARoxetine may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience some impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor

Moderate clonazepam  cetirizine

Applies to: Klonopin (clonazepam), Zyrtec (cetirizine)

Using cetirizine together with clonazePAM may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Moderate paroxetine  cetirizine

Applies to: Paxil (paroxetine), Zyrtec (cetirizine)

Using cetirizine together with PARoxetine may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

*

MOST drugs have moderate interactions.  And the docs don't even check them.  Like Klonopin with Paxil.  Who'da thot it?

 

You wrote:

 

 

I think I'm too in tuned to the way I feel and I over analyze which can made symptoms worse.. 

 

You are onto something here.  The more you can let go, let go, let go - and observe the symptoms without getting involved in them, the more gentle you are on yourself.  Diving into each symptom and trying to take it apart and "come to grips with it" or fight it, makes the process harder.

 

You said you tried 1 mg updoses.   We generally hold there from a week to 10 days before deciding to adjust, and 4 days is when you know if it will work, and only gradually titrate upwards.  Because you've done a major reinstatement, you may be at a dose which is too high, too activating.  But I am not a Paxil expert.  It is possible that a 2-4 mg drop will ease your symptoms somewhat.

 

It's now been a couple of months, and if you feel your symptoms and life will bear it, you might try a 2 mg drop, to see if you can achieve a more optimum dose with fewer side effects.

 

Now I look at the clock and see it is time for my short morning walk!

Take care!  I hope you see the sun today!

[dreamspirit]

It's been 14 weeks since I reinstated. Actually today I feel alot better but I was thinking about it being to activating because I did reinstate by 10mg.

I seem to be slowly but surely feeling better..

 

I'm not getting any worse that's for sure. Thank goodness! I'll just hold off longer to see how I feel..

 

What about the allergy nasal spray's like Nasacort ? Are those better to use than Zyrtec ?

 

Thanks so much for taking the time to post to me and look up the drug interactions.. I really appreciate it. .

[JanCarol]

The nasal sprays are better because they are topical.  But again - there is a rebound effect, and if you use the nasal sprays daily, you will start to have sinus rebound attacks.  Humph, all these drugs want you to be addicted to them!

 

I meant to say (but got caught up in drug interactions) - it is better to take them than to be sick with allergies during withdrawal.  IIRC, there is plenty in Michigan to be allergic to!  Especially this time of year (for me, anyway).

 

You can taper the Zyrtec later.  I tried to taper off antihistamines last year, thinking - well - this is OTC stuff, should be no big deal!  I got down to 1/4 tablet, then the allergies came back full force and I was snarfing Benadryl to survive.  Benadryl is like my "emergency antihistamine," so I don't like snarfing huge gobs of it.

 

I ended up back on the Zyrtec / Claratyne / etc non drowsy ones, to reduce my use of Benadryl.  I alternate to a different one every 4 weeks because I've been on antihistamines for 45 years!  I'm terrified of poop out, so I alternate to retain some efficacy!

 

THAT SAID, I give my long term antihistamine use some credit (well, actually a liability) for my emotional lability as a teenager, possibly contributing to extreme PMS, moodiness, and alienated feelings.  They are not the sole factor contributing to my "bipolar" diagnosis, but they were a contributing cause, I'm sure.

[dreamspirit]

Wow, you must have some bad allergies.. yeah, I have switched back and forth between Zyrtec and Allegra. Allegra don't really work for me at all and I think my body is use to Zyrtec but I can stop it and not have any bad allergies. It mainly just controls my itchyness.

[dreamspirit]

I get alot of sinus infections thought because I have a deviated septum. Plus I'm sure seasonal allergies don't help the situation.