marie123: tapering trazodone

[marie123]

Hi Grace. Oh you're getting a blizzard. We had one too a couple days ago and got 15 inches. I've always loved big snows (as long as I don't have to go out in my car with it.) Mirtazapine is a strong one that's why these smaller cuts you really feel. I think it's worse than trazodone. I have not been to Europe. We were going to start going there but covid happened. Who knows if this trip will happen. I hope so. Marie.

[savinggrace]

I hope you get to go too!  It will help you through the tapering with something so big to look forward to.  I am not sure if I will ever get to tapering mirtazapine, but I sure would like to.  My sleep is so nightmarish.

 

Grace

[marie123]

Hi Grace. You might be okay tapering it very slowly. Does the valium or trileptal help with sleep? Marie.

[savinggrace]

I doubt it helps me sleep at all, at least no quality sleep.  What makes me stop sleeping completely is trying to taper. I am trying to taper the trileptal because I can, very slowly, and the trileptal is known to cause several chronic and worsening health conditions I am suffering with.  I figure getting whatever toxin out of me I can, is better than nothing. 
 

Harm reduction has to be my mantra now. Every gram I get out of me is progress. 
 

I am always waiting to feel good enough to be more aggressive but I was never stable to begin with. Sadly, my health is not well enough to do any better. I refuse to be hospitalized by this. It will not go well. 

Thanks for asking, Marie. 
 

Grace

[marie123]

Yes harm reduction is a very good thing Grace. I feel that too as I taper. I just know I'm getting healthier and healthier as I go down in dose. If you can taper trileptal do that. If you ever feel like tapering the Mirt very slowly there's plenty of us here to commiserate with.

 

I weighed my dose last night. It was that rocky type sleep, waking up a lot, not quite enough, etc. It feels like when I was tapering trazodone. At least it did not hype me up like that awful liquid I received from the compound pharmacy. I can deal with the pills and it will only be better once I'm taking all pills and no liquid. I've thought about it and I'm going to try to cut/weigh for a while and see how I do. I will switch to my own liquid eventually, not sure when.

 

It's funny that I finally figured out the right way to calibrate the scale. I was foggy with the trazadone taper and don't think I ever calibrated it. I read the little booklet and figured it out. Marie.

[savinggrace]

You will figure this out Marie. LOL…my husband calibrates the scale every time or nearly every time he cuts. So that is an important thing to do.  I think you are well on your way to a new normal with your taper. 
 

Grace

[Estman]

On 1/27/2022 at 8:26 PM, marie123 said:

Hello. It's still not going well. I am in a pattern of 3 days of very little sleep following by 1 day of great sleep (8 hours). I'm fine with five hours at least. I seem to be crashing after 3 days of little sleep to get one great day. I can't keep doing this so it's looking I might have to abandon liquid for now and go back to pill form.

I believe there is something in the new mix that is getting to me. I'll hold on for now see how the updose works and possibly updose another .03.  It's been 16 days like this.

 

I'll regroup on the pills, stabilize and try making me own. I will use maple syrup. I know my system likes maple syrup lol. Cutting/Weighing could be hard getting the weight right due to the fluctuation of the scale. Well one way or the other I will leave Mirt behind.

 

I wonder if anyone has gone back to taking the pills instead of the liquid. I've been using the old liquid successfully for over a year and a half. Will my nervous system take it well? I guess I will find out. Be well everyone.

 

Hi Marie,

Is your insomnia with anxiety?
I'm cut my Clopipramine 
Usually 10-15 days after the last cut, I have a heavy wave
This is usually accompanied by great anxiety and depressing depression at night
Then I can't seem to fall asleep
I had a lot of insomnia a few years ago and it caused a lot of fear.
Even now, when there is temporary insomnia, there is always fear at night
Then I can only fall asleep in the morning and sleep for only a few hours
It is usually a fast pulse, despair and unable to fall asleep for a few days
Sometimes it is rare for insomnia when you feel normal, there is hypermania
Then there is no anxiety but just no sleep. In the middle of the night there is no fatigue at all
So my insomnia is mainly related to waves and anxiety
Is there any abstract fear of what happens if you don't sleep at all?
In short, insomnia can cause phobia 
 

[savinggrace]

Marie,

 

I am sorry you have hit such a rough patch.  I have gone from pill form to liquid form but I only did it for a few nights because my body responded as though i was in complete withdrawal. I went right back to pill form and stayed there. I think the absorption is very different between pill and liquid form.  I think you will stabilize on the pill form, but it will likely take more than a few days.

 

It will get better.  You just have to get through this rough patch.  I think choosing one method over the other and sticking with it will be the key.

 

Grace

[marie123]

27 minutes ago, Estman said:

 

Hi Marie,

Is your insomnia with anxiety?
I'm cut my Clopipramine 
Usually 10-15 days after the last cut, I have a heavy wave
This is usually accompanied by great anxiety and depressing depression at night
Then I can't seem to fall asleep
I had a lot of insomnia a few years ago and it caused a lot of fear.
Even now, when there is temporary insomnia, there is always fear at night
Then I can only fall asleep in the morning and sleep for only a few hours
It is usually a fast pulse, despair and unable to fall asleep for a few days
Sometimes it is rare for insomnia when you feel normal, there is hypermania
Then there is no anxiety but just no sleep. In the middle of the night there is no fatigue at all
So my insomnia is mainly related to waves and anxiety
Is there any abstract fear of what happens if you don't sleep at all?
In short, insomnia can cause phobia 
 

Hi Estman. I have noticed sometimes when I cut Mirt. I get revved up. I think that what it is called on here is anxiety. I feel hyped up. I know it's from the cut and it's never severe so I try to distract. This can cause my sleep to be worse. Also when I tried the new liquid there was something in it to that revevved me up more so I had insomnia (only a few hours). I always tell myself it's the meds. Yes, I've had that abstract fear of no sleep. I had that back at the beginning with real bad insomnia and I did have the fear. The fear goes away as long as I get at least a few hours. As long as you get some hours Estman I would not fear it so much.

 

Just make smaller cuts and hold longer. You might feel a bit better and sleep more. I know this works for me. Be well. Marie.

[marie123]

18 minutes ago, savinggrace said:

Marie,

 

I am sorry you have hit such a rough patch.  I have gone from pill form to liquid form but I only did it for a few nights because my body responded as though i was in complete withdrawal. I went right back to pill form and stayed there. I think the absorption is very different between pill and liquid form.  I think you will stabilize on the pill form, but it will likely take more than a few days.

 

It will get better.  You just have to get through this rough patch.  I think choosing one method over the other and sticking with it will be the key.

 

Grace

I'm crossing over from the liquid to the pills. This week two days I'll have pills and the rest liquid, next week three days pills, etc. It will be a bit easier this way. I was thinking of cutting until I get down to 3 mg or so then converting to liquid (water combined with sugar free maple syrup). Be well. Marie.

 

 

[Estman]

20 hours ago, marie123 said:

Hi Estman. I have noticed sometimes when I cut Mirt. I get revved up. I think that what it is called on here is anxiety. I feel hyped up. I know it's from the cut and it's never severe so I try to distract. This can cause my sleep to be worse. Also when I tried the new liquid there was something in it to that revevved me up more so I had insomnia (only a few hours). I always tell myself it's the meds. Yes, I've had that abstract fear of no sleep. I had that back at the beginning with real bad insomnia and I did have the fear. The fear goes away as long as I get at least a few hours. As long as you get some hours Estman I would not fear it so much.

 

Just make smaller cuts and hold longer. You might feel a bit better and sleep more. I know this works for me. Be well. Marie.

Hi Marie,

Yes, every time I have insomnia I think I can't sleep at all
When I quit Amitriptyline a few years ago I had particularly severe insomnia
I think Amitriptyline and Mitrazapine are similar
Both seem to have severe insomnia
Then I won't be able to sleep at all one night, and since then I have had this fear of insomnia
However, with my current clomipramine, I have been asleep for a few hours in the morning
But there is always a great fear and feeling that you will not be able this time and everything will happen again
I reduced my daily dose by 5% 14 days ago
About a week ago, the wave began
The last 3 days have been a severe wave with great anxiety and depression
Due to the dose reduction, I had to make the whole tablet a powder
I shake the powder in my mouth and drink water
I wonder if this will affect my wave?
We have winter here right now and my depression seems very severe
Is it desperation that maybe it won't end this time?
Even when sleeping more or less normally, waking up immediately is severely depressed.

[marie123]

Hi Estman. I would try and get out for some fresh air and light. A walk around the block usually helps me when feeling that way.

 

The Mirt pills seem to be working fine. The gemini scale when using the 10 mg weight works well. I can more less get close when I chop the pill up to get the dose. Then I shave it a little with the metal file or razor blade to get the exact dose. Next week will be 4 days of pills, 3 days of liquid. I know it sounds like I'm dragging it out but I want to be on the safe side. My 3.87 mg liquid dose is now 3.9 mg pill dose. I'll cut .1 every three weeks once I start cutting again. I think this will work. Be well. Marie.

[Mimi65]

Marie,

how’s it going?  

[marie123]

Hello Mimi65. I am doing good. I'm starting to go every other day pill then liquid the next. Just for a week I will do that and then only the Mirt pills that I'm weighing (3.9mg). The 7.5 mg pills weigh .075 mg on the scale. I believe the manufacturers did this on purpose. So from now on when I'm ready I'll knock off .1 mg at a time. Every three weeks I will try because it will give me an easier ride through the taper.

 

How are you doing with your taper? Be well. Marie.

[Mimi65]

Glad to hear things are back in control.  Those bumps we hit are so disturbing trying to figure them out.  My taper is going ok, it has been difficult as you well know but I’m getting there.  I actually cut my dose to .5 2 nights ago and will hold there for a few weeks since we are going away for two weeks on the 19th.  When we return in early March I’ll figure the rest out.  It’s getting difficult to cut and weigh that tiny little speck of a pill.  Do you think .5 is still too high to jump from?  I was going to try to go a little lower but not sure if I can cut with accuracy below this weight,

[marie123]

Hi Mimi65. I would hold that little amount for a month and see how you feel. Since you are near the end you want to see if any withdrawal catches up to you. You can still cut lower even if you can't weigh it. This is what I did with trazodone.

 

Got a big mirror. Crushed the .5 dose into powder. Made up a bunch of .5 doses in powder. Layed them all out on the mirror. Divided the .5 dose into 5 or 10 piles? Your choice how small you want to cut. Take one of those piles away as your cut. Do that for a month? Next month take away two piles, following month three piles, etc. You can also make a liquid. When I get down lower I will make my own liquid. I would suggest taking your time with the end taper.

 

Enjoy your vacation. Marie.

[savinggrace]

Just wondering Marie…why a mirror? Happy to know things are leveling out for you. 
 

Grace

 

 

[marie123]

Hi Grace. A mirror works well when you are working with powder and a razor blade. Like cokeheads do lol.

Easy to see the particles and divide up the small piles of powder. It helped me get to .04 mg trazodone.  Hope you are doing good. Marie.

[Mimi65]

Thanks for the tip.

[Estman]

On 2/4/2022 at 8:25 PM, marie123 said:

Hi Estman. I would try and get out for some fresh air and light. A walk around the block usually helps me when feeling that way.

 

The Mirt pills seem to be working fine. The gemini scale when using the 10 mg weight works well. I can more less get close when I chop the pill up to get the dose. Then I shave it a little with the metal file or razor blade to get the exact dose. Next week will be 4 days of pills, 3 days of liquid. I know it sounds like I'm dragging it out but I want to be on the safe side. My 3.87 mg liquid dose is now 3.9 mg pill dose. I'll cut .1 every three weeks once I start cutting again. I think this will work. Be well. Marie.

Hi Marie,
What happened I feared the most happened
Last night was a constant big anxiety panic and I couldn't fall asleep
This has not been the case for the last 2-3 years, I have always been able to sleep for 1-2 hours
It all started at noon yesterday when I suddenly became very tired and depressed with it
The evening was already in despair and a strong wave
I am very dizzy today and in the same head I am very irritable, unable to fall asleep.
I'm terribly afraid of insomnia, just like I was 3 years ago
I had the last paragraph 23 days ago and only 5%
Have you ever had nights when you can't sleep at all?

[marie123]

Yes Estman. I've had some nights with no sleep. I lay there and rest or I get up and sit in another room and do some light reading. You'll get sleep the following nights. There's no reason to fear, your body really wants to sleep. I used to listen to Blue Planet with David Attenborough on the lowest volume. His voice is so calming and makes you sleepy. Maybe try something like that if you can't sleep. I would cut my tapering dose to a smaller amount and hold longer. This always helps me in the sleep department. Marie.

[Mimi65]

Hey Marie,

how are things going for you?  Are you back to your dose in just pill form now?  
I am still holding on the .5 dose, been a week now.  We are leaving Saturday so I’ll hold this dose until we return early March.  I tried a little experiment by crushing a .5 dose to powder and it is such a ridiculously small amount of powder that I’m not sure that I can make more than 2 or 3 piles out of it and still be able to see it.  It truly is crazy what a small little chip of pill I’m taking.  I have 7.5 tablets so I’m taking 1/15 of that.  

[marie123]

Hello Mimi. I am doing okay. My sleep is not that good but I feel alright during the day. It's only about 4 days with just pills.  I am anxious to start cutting again. As soon as my sleep gets a bit better I'll cut again. I had to wear my reading glasses to see better with the tiny amounts with trazodone. I know how small the little pile can be. See if you can divide it up with a blade. If not I would say try to convert it to water. I will probably convert to water when I get to the low 2's. Allow yourself some time crossing over from pill to liquid if you do this.

[Mimi65]

Thanks Marie.  My sleep was awful again last night, a few minutes here and there.  It is day 7 after the last cut, hope things improve soon, for both of us.

[marie123]

Hello Mimi. I've also noticed that when the weather starts changing from winter to spring I start to get a bit wavy. Where I am the weather has been changing a lot. A few days here and there have been much warmer. It's starting to transition a bit before it becomes spring and it's affecting me. Last year the transition made me wavy too. This happens during the summer to fall transition too.

 

Getting some fresh air and exercise on your vacation with help with your sleep. Have a good time. Marie.

[marie123]

Hello everyone. I've been taking my Mirt with all pills now. I've decided to cut to 3.8 mg tonight. I'm a bit frustrated with all my setbacks and having to hold. Vacation, corona, liquid med change, back to pills. It's enough to make one nuts. I keep pushing forward though. I'll be done with it sooner or later. It somehow felt like I needed to cut. I seem to be feeling more side effects than withdrawal effects. I hope that I can continue to taper by weighing til I get to the 2's. The reason I did not switch right over to my own liquid is that I was so sensitive when I switched to the pharm liquid. I took 3 months to crossover. I did not want to take this time again now. Be well. Marie.

[Bestill]

@marie123-  you are simply amazing.  Everything that you have overcome.  This is so helpful for not just myself but for everyone else who is going through this and can look at your story and say , wow.  What a strong woman.  I know you will keep us posted.  ❤️❤️

[marie123]

Thanks Bestill. I feel good after the cut. I'm at 3.8 mg. It's great that I was able to notice that the side affects were getting to me and it was time to cut. The side effects are better now. I discovered I'm really in tune with my body. I can use this as I go along on my taper. Everyone hang in there, things get better. Stay safe and be well. Marie.

[Gigi68]

So glad you have finally been able to make a reduction! I hope you don’t have any more unforeseen delays!!

[marie123]

Hi Gigi. Yeah but I need to make an appointment with my doctor unfortunately. Three months ago I had a fainting episode when waking up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom I woke up because my stomach hurt like I needed to have a bowel movement badly. I fainted on the toilet after the bowel movement. This happened again last night. I have been mostly constipated lately from the Mirt. I was going to the bathroom for #2 during the day. I had just cut a couple days ago. I woke up with a really bad stomach ache and constipated, went to the bathroom, and started to faint. This time I just laid down on the floor because I did not want to hurt myself. My husband helped me back to bed.

 

I am a bit alarmed this morning when I saw blood in the toilet and from wiping. I had only pooped a tiny bit. I do have a hemoroid. Straining can cause a fissure. I have read about fainting when having a bowel movement. It seems it's an actual thing when straining. Your blood pressure actually lowers when straining. Mirt gets me constipated, I strain to go, then I faint. Mirt can also just cause fainting so it makes sense. I have to get it checked out and I know it means first gp, gastro doc, colonoscopy, etc. I need to drink more and get some exercise. These drugs are poison.

 

Marie.

[Gigi68]

I'm so sorry Marie- one more thing to deal with. I hope it turns out to be nothing but just going to several drs. and going through a colonoscopy will be stressful. I had one last year when I was still on 7.5mg. The drug they use now to knock you out is good. I can't remember what it's called but I woke feeling like I had just taken the best nap of my life. 

 

When I first started tapering, I had a lot of diarrhea problems. I started taking a low histamine probiotic and it went away but now I also am constipated. I had been taking magnesium glycinate but switched to magnesium citrate a couple of months ago and haven't had much trouble since. Also found some Youtube videos about abdominal self massage for constipation that seem to help. I sometimes also eat a few prunes. 

 

I'm thinking of you. You are such a fighter and will get through this too! Hang in there!

[marie123]

Hello Gigi. I'm going to try Culturelle. I tried it once before when I was tapering Mirt and I liked the way it made my gut feel normal. I took it because I was taking an antibiotic. Today I feel a bit dizzy and weak. I had to drive somewhere but I had no problem. The fresh air did me good. I think when I am feeling a bit better I will go see my GP. He will recommend a colonoscopy so I will go get one. I was always paranoid during w/d to get one, but I will. I want to ask him for bloodwork.

 

The last time I had it done was 2016. Oddly I went to see him because I was so ill and it wouldn't go away. I asked him to test everything. All test results were great. I've gained weight and can't really exercise now so I hope I don't show high sugar and chloresterol. I had jumped off of trazodone at 5 mg. I finally figured it out when I did not get better. This was six weeks after I jumped and wasn't well versed in w/d. I reinstated.

 

My sister had the fainting/dizziness like me waking up in the middle of the night with stomach cramps and straining to go. She's the one who told me to just lay on the floor if you get dizzy. This stomach issue started notably 4 days after the Mirt cut. This is usually when I feel w/d come on. I'll keep going. Marie.

[marie123]

Hello. So I took 1 culturelle probiotic yesterday. It is the recommended dose. Maybe I should have taken half since I am sensitive to extra stuff. Withdrawal is worse than yesterday. I feel more spacey, nervous and just generally weirded out. The good news is my stomach now feels good and more settled. I took culterelle two other times. The first time I got revved up when I was in active withdrawal of one the others I tapered from. The second time I was in stable withdrawal of trazodone and it did not rev me up. I find this happens with food too. When I am stable I can eat different things. I'll keep holding this dose for now. Looking for stability. Spring makes me wavy too. Be well. Marie.

[marie123]

Hello. I have seemed to stabilize and I'm in a windowy day. I know it was the transfer to pills, the cut and the probiotic. I am hoping that when I cut now at lower doses stability will come quicker after a cut like it just did.  I have found Mirtazapine to be a very potent med and needs to be tapered carefully. Maybe because I'm just sensitized from my other tapers. Others tapering Mirt may have an easier time. Be well and stay safe everyone. Marie.

[marie123]

Great sleep last night, 8+ hours. I feel the Mirt fatigue today a little more than usual. It might be spring allergies combined with Mirt taper. The dizzy/spacey/nervous feeling has been gone. That's good. I'm getting more stable. Be well everyone. Marie.

[marie123]

Hello. I'm doing good. I've been pretty stable since my last small cut. Achy joints is all I notice at the time. I will cut this coming Sunday since I'm going to see Elton John on Saturday. It will bring me to 3.7 mg Mirt. I will be more than halfway there, yay. It looks like by April I will be at 3.5 mg Mirt. I started tapering Mirt in April 2020, so two years of tapering and I would have taken 4 mg off. That's good for a slow taper with a couple of screw-ups.

 

7 years, 5 months free from Ambien.

3 years, 1 month free of Trazodone.

 

Be well and stay safe. Marie.