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ChessieCat: so I'm not the only one (Pristiq / desvenlafaxine)

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ChessieCat

Thanks for dropping in Carmie and eymen.

 

No, I hadn't heard of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs.  Thank you for sharing it.

 

I had the most uninterrupted night of sleep last night for quite a while.  Even though I got up twice during the night, I didn't feel the need to listen to my mp3 like I usually do and was able to get back to sleep reasonably quickly.  And I had a pleasant surprise when I woke up and it was 7 am.  I've been regularly waking up at any time from about 4.30 am so it made a very nice change.

 

A few nights ago I started using the count backwards from 1,000 that a member mentioned recently.  I don't worry about saying the full number (nine hundred and ninety-nine) I just shorten it (nine, nine, nine, nine) and visualise the number.

 

 

Edited by ChessieCat

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Steve61
11 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Thanks for dropping in Carmie and eymen.

 

No, I hadn't heard of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs.  Thank you for sharing it.

 

I had the most uninterrupted night of sleep last night for quite a while.  Even though I got up twice during the night, I didn't feel the need to listen to my mp3 like I usually do and was able to get back to sleep reasonably quickly.  And I had a pleasant surprise when I woke up and it was 7 am.  I've been regularly waking up at any time from about 4.30 am so it made a very nice change.

 

A few nights ago I started using the count backwards from 1,000 that a member mentioned recently.  I don't worry about saying the full number (nine hundred and ninety-nine) I just shorten it (nine, nine, nine, nine) and visualise the number.

 

 

Hi CC. One of the areas that I am most affected by wd is sleep. Especially falling off to sleep. Do you find the counting method beneficial ?

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ChessieCat

Hi Steve, I've posted in your topic.

 

I've only just started to use it.  The problem I have is that after getting up for a bathroom visit I find that I can't still my mind.  It seems to go in to overdrive and then it can bring on a bit of anxiety.  That's why I started listening to audios on my mp3 and would be awake for at least another hour, and often dozing off with it still on.  The trouble is that it would sometimes then rouse me up again.  I realised that I might be creating a bad pattern for myself and have tried to not listen to the mp3 but my thoughts would always start again so after reading about the backwards counting I decided to try that instead of the mp3.  It does seem to be helping.

 

I just decided to google about counting backwards for sleep and found this:  when-counting-sheep-doesnt-work-try-this-word-game-to-fall-asleep

 

"When you are lying awake, unable to fall asleep, traditional advice says to count sheep. But if you find yourself still sleepless after counting livestock, try this sleep trick backed by cognitive science on how to purposefully scramble your thoughts until you can fall asleep.

 

Canadian cognitive scientist Luc Beaudoin calls his solution “cognitive shuffling,” or serial diverse imagining. It’s a technique where you play a word game to shuffle your thoughts into random images and words to encourage your brain to fall asleep."

 

Basically it is thinking of a word, eg bird, and picturing it 🐦

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Carmie

That’s great you had a night of interrupted sleep ChessieCat, 

 

I hope you have many more. I wonder how far you get in counting backwards from 1,000. Keep counting! 💚

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ChessieCat

Haven't been doing much counting.  But I do seem to be getting to sleep a bit easier than I used to since I don't seem to get the brain chattering as much now.

 

Well another 3 weeks of my life has gone, which means today I reduced to 4.5mg.  95.5% reduction of my original dose.  Looks much better seeing it written that way.

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Carmie

Hi ChessieCat, 

 

You’re doing so well. 👏👏 It certainly is a great way to look at withdrawals, to see how far we’ve come, instead of how far we still have to go. 95.5% down from what you were on, that is a major accomplishment! Glad you’re sleeping a bit better too. 

 

All the best with your latest reduction💚

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Carmie

Hi ChessieCat, 

 

How have you been doing? What have you been up to? I hope all is going well with your latest drop.

 

Have a nice weekend💚

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ChessieCat

Someone asked me about my MSG intolerance so instead of cluttering their topic I'm posting it here:

 

MSG intolerance - before ADs.  But MSG (aka flavour enhancer) is a neurotoxin.  It tricks the brain into thinking things taste better than they do.  I got hooked on Pringles Sour Cream and Chive chips.  I had at least 2 instances of anaphylaxis which I didn't realise at the time what it was and it wasn't until after that I learned that the next stage could be heart failure so didn't call an ambulance.  It got so bad that I was intolerant to natural glutamate, tomatoes, mushrooms, grapes, hard cheese, peas, corn, plums, grapes, soy sauce, spinach (that one didn't bother me - I'm not Popeye 🤣 ).  Food challenge is when you go on elimination diet (no artificial colours, flavourings and other known trigger foods - really boring) for several weeks and then introduce something new in a large quantity.  The two worst ones were cottage cheese and margarine.  However the blue dye in an allowed lemonade was fairly ghastly because I could taste the dye.  I can now eat high glutamate foods again.  I steer clear of all flavour enhancers.  If I accidentally ingest any I know the early symptoms and I have found that taking a couple of antihistamine tablets seems to work.

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powerback
2 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Someone asked me about my MSG intolerance so instead of cluttering their topic I'm posting it here:

 

MSG intolerance - before ADs.  But MSG (aka flavour enhancer) is a neurotoxin.  It tricks the brain into thinking things taste better than they do.  I got hooked on Pringles Sour Cream and Chive chips.  I had at least 2 instances of anaphylaxis which I didn't realise at the time what it was and it wasn't until after that I learned that the next stage could be heart failure so didn't call an ambulance.  It got so bad that I was intolerant to natural glutamate, tomatoes, mushrooms, grapes, hard cheese, peas, corn, plums, grapes, soy sauce, spinach (that one didn't bother me - I'm not Popeye 🤣 ).  Food challenge is when you go on elimination diet (no artificial colours, flavourings and other known trigger foods - really boring) for several weeks and then introduce something new in a large quantity.  The two worst ones were cottage cheese and margarine.  However the blue dye in an allowed lemonade was fairly ghastly because I could taste the dye.  I can now eat high glutamate foods again.  I steer clear of all flavour enhancers.  If I accidentally ingest any I know the early symptoms and I have found that taking a couple of antihistamine tablets seems to work.

Exactly what ive read about  MSG tricking the brain ,I still crave certain fast foods.the fact this chemical is there to trick you ,should be enough to run a mile.

Eating clean at the start is bland for this very reason ,there's no chemical.

Alot of people still say "is the food nice" ,the thinking needs to change to is it nutritious.

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mdwstrx

Hi Chessie. Wishing you an easy drop to 4.5.   💜

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ChessieCat

Hi PB and mdwstrx, thanks for stopping by.

 

My drop to 4.5mg has gone well and I'm due to drop to 4.25mg on Saturday.

 

Thankfully the heat where I am is starting to relent.  It's been fairly bad since Christmas.  Still getting the odd hot day but it seems to cool off more during the night.  Since the beginning of the year I've worked from home on the hot days and my sleep has been disrupted and I've been sleeping when I can, so on the whole my entire routine is out of whack at the moment.  It's gradually starting to get straightened out and I no longer have the "over it" feeling that I had at the end of last week.  Hopefully over the next few night I'll be able to get my sleep pattern back to being more normal.

 

Just noting for my own information.  Had a fast food chicken roll with gravy for lunch yesterday and later felt nauseous.  It did pass.  However I had the same feeling during the morning after my normal breakfast today.  Not sure if it's related to withdrawal, a bit of stress, bug or something else.  Felt okay after lunch today but starting to get a little bit of the same feeling now after having eaten 2 hours ago.

 

And a happy valentine's day to all.    @)--}--}--

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ChessieCat

Noticed some mild nausea on the way to work at about the same distance on my trip.  Didn't last for long.

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ChessieCat

I've discovered something by accident.  Recently I've had trouble with thought loops running through my mind, even to the extent of having a theoretical conversation about something that probably would never have taken place.

 

I've also been listening to some cute and cleverly written children's songs and I've been playing them when driving and learning the lyrics.  My thought loops have been replaced with the songs.  And because there are a lot of songs with catchy tunes and clever lyrics they tend to change throughout the day.  I've even found myself singing them out loud, and actually got asked to stop singing at work today (very nicely), not realising that my voice was carrying around the office.

 

The artist is Don Spencer and I am amazed at the words he manages to rhyme.  There are lots of his songs on YouTube.

 

So in fact it's actually working in multiple areas:  replacing the thought loops, lifting my mood, helping my memory and using my brain, singing which I've heard it good for us, makes me laugh, and I'm more relaxed when driving.

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JackieDecides
On 2/15/2019 at 1:32 AM, ChessieCat said:

The artist is Don Spencer and I am amazed at the words he manages to rhyme

 

I am currently listening to Feathers, Fur or Fins - he can sing, too! thank you for the suggestion. 

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neroli
On 2/15/2019 at 10:32 PM, ChessieCat said:

The artist is Don Spencer and I am amazed at the words he manages to rhyme.  There are lots of his songs on YouTube.

 

So in fact it's actually working in multiple areas:  replacing the thought loops, lifting my mood, helping my memory and using my brain, singing which I've heard it good for us, makes me laugh, and I'm more relaxed when driving.

Hello ChessieCat

 

Hmmm, maybe I'll have a listen to these songs.  ACT therapy has a similar exercise as one of its thought defusion techniques - when an unhelpful thought arises, try singing it to a simple/catchy tune.  I've tried it but haven't seen much defusion yet (it actually seems to fuse me to the thought more) but I can keep practicing and maybe Dpn's tunes will be more engaging than happy birthday.

 

Glad you've found a new tool for your resource kit.

 

Neroli 💜

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ChessieCat

For anyone who is interested, I've categorised the Don Spencer songs.  Some of them are more suited to Australian members, but there plenty of others which are just really good songs, even though they have an Australian flavour.

 

Song title links to Youtube song

Lyrics link = PDF of lyrics

 

ALBUM                                     SONG

 

Songs that I've caught myself singing to:

 

Australia for Kids                   Bob the Kelpie     lyrics

Australia for Kids                   Rain

Australia for Kids                   Out the Back

Australia for Kids                   She'll Be Right

Australia for Kids                   ABC of Australia     lyrics

Australian Animal Songs     Tasmanian Devil     lyrics

Australian Animal Songs     Lizards of Oz

Australian Animal Songs     Aussie Mossie     lyrics

Australian Animal Songs     The Owl

Australian Animal Songs     Hanging Around Flying Fox      lyrics

Australian Animal Songs     Crocodile     lyrics

Feathers Fur or Fins             Don't Ever Step on a Snake     lyrics

Feathers Fur or Fins             Please Don’t Call Me a Koala Bear     alternative link with koalas

Feathers Fur or Fins             Kookaburra

Feathers Fur or Fins             Sh Sh Sugar Glider

Feathers Fur or Fins             I'm an Aussie Shark

Have a Beaut Day                 Jaws and Teeth      lyrics

 

Songs I like singing along to when I'm driving, plus the above:

 

Australia for Kids                   Boomerang      lyrics

Australia for Kids                   A-U-S-T-R-A-L-I-A     lyrics

Australia for Kids                   Captain Cook     lyrics

Australia for Kids                   Aussie Boys and Aussie Girls     lyrics

Australian Animal Songs     It's a Marsupial     lyrics

Australian Animal Songs     We've Got

Cooee                                      Cooee Song     lyrics

Cooee                                      Didgeridoo Song     lyrics

Cooee                                      Home Among the Gum Trees

Cooee                                     Tie Me Kangaroo Down

Cooee                                     Botany Bay

Feathers Fur or Fins             Kangaroo the Super Marsupial

Feathers Fur or Fins             I Love My Echidna     lyrics

Feathers Fur or Fins             Where Does a Goanna Go?

Have a Beaut Day                 The Flying Doctor      lyrics

Have a Beaut Day                 Pete the Lorikeet

Have a Beaut Day                 Parrot Fashion

Have a Beaut Day                 Fishing Suits Me Fine     lyrics

Have a Beaut Day                 Have a Beaut Day!

Walkabout                              Eggs

Walkabout                              My Big Jazz Band

 

Other songs:

 

Australia for Kids                   Sunshine

Australian Animal Songs      Possum

Australian Animal Songs      Fairy Penguin Strut

Australian Animal Songs      The Smart Galah

Cooee                                     Waltzing Matilda

Feathers Fur or Fins            He's a Cockatoo     lyrics

Feathers Fur or Fins            Warts n All the Cane Toad

Feathers Fur or Fins            Emu     lyrics

Feathers Fur or Fins           Feathers Fur or Fins     lyrics

Feathers Fur or Fins           Dig Dig Dig Like a Wombat      lyrics

Feathers Fur or Fins           Black Swan Shadow on the Water

Feathers Fur or Fins           A Platypus Song     lyrics

Have a Beaut Day               Bush Tucker      lyrics

Have a Beaut Day               Flowers      lyrics

Have a Beaut Day               Stand Up

Have a Beaut Day              In the Garden

Have a Beaut Day              So Much More to See

Have a Beaut Day              Cowboy Song     lyrics

Have a Beaut Day              The Laughing Song

Have a Beaut Day              Old Steam Train

Have a Beaut Day              The Cat

Have a Beaut Day              The Barrier Reef

Walkabout                          Walkabout

Walkabout                          Thumbs Up

Walkabout                          Flying My Kite

Walkabout                          Backyard Birdbath     lyrics

Walkabout                          The Weather Song

Walkabout                          The Solar Powered Practical Combustible Compactable Responsibly Recyclable Machine

Walkabout                          Red Dirt Roadway

Walkabout                          The Great Australian Bite

Walkabout                          Panda

Walkabout                          Trees

 

 

Edited by ChessieCat
added links to lyrics

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ChessieCat

I've added links to the songs and a link to the lyrics which I've found online.

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Carmie

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

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RusTW
On 2/15/2019 at 1:32 AM, ChessieCat said:

I've discovered something by accident.  Recently I've had trouble with thought loops running through my mind, even to the extent of having a theoretical conversation about something that probably would never have taken place.

 

I've also been listening to some cute and cleverly written children's songs and I've been playing them when driving and learning the lyrics.  My thought loops have been replaced with the songs.  And because there are a lot of songs with catchy tunes and clever lyrics they tend to change throughout the day.  I've even found myself singing them out loud, and actually got asked to stop singing at work today (very nicely), not realising that my voice was carrying around the office.

 

The artist is Don Spencer and I am amazed at the words he manages to rhyme.  There are lots of his songs on YouTube.

 

So in fact it's actually working in multiple areas:  replacing the thought loops, lifting my mood, helping my memory and using my brain, singing which I've heard it good for us, makes me laugh, and I'm more relaxed when driving.

CC music looping has helped me so much.its nice you found it too.i mostly listen to 80s or classical 

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ChessieCat

1 week ago last Saturday I reduced to 4.25mg.

 

It's been a tiring weekend.  On Saturday I attended my grandson's 5th birthday.  Total driving time (there and back) about 5.5 hours.  Also dismantled bicycle (to fit in my newer, very small car) and packed the car the night before, and reassembled the bike after the party.  Party itself was fairly easy going.  The stress was in the lead up to it.  Was very tired that night, but woke about 3am Sunday morning and was up for 1.5 to 2 hours then back to bed until about 8am, then I had another sleep during the day.  Went to bed usual time and woke several times during the night.  Still feeling a bit blah this morning.  Hopefully having a shower will help to get rid of some of the "heaviness" I'm feeling.

 

I've also had a bit of an upset tummy which I'm not sure if it's a bug or the stress.  I wouldn't be surprised if it's the stress.

 

My non drug coping skills are working well, and I know this is temporary but will take a bit of time for things to settle down again.  I'm also very thankful that the weather has been much cooler so that hasn't made things worse, although I was sweating when working on the bike.

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ChessieCat

Wow, I've been sleeping when needed and only doing the minimum.  I'm still feeling blah and my head is fuzzy and my tinnitus has increased a bit.  I've only had one or two "break through" times when I've felt almost normal.  But they were very short.  Half to 1 hour at the most.

 

I'm just plodding along, knowing that it will all pass, but I'm really surprised at how I've been affected and how long it's taking.  Really glad that I didn't have to go to work until Monday, but I only managed 4 hours and even doing 4 hours was tough (I supposed to do 4.5).  I felt very irritable all the time I was there.  And I'm off today and tomorrow so can rest up some more.

 

We had 2 months of very hot weather preceding this, so maybe I was still recovering from that.

 

EDITED to add:  No alcohol or caffeine consumption 😉

 

Edited by ChessieCat

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ChessieCat

Something I've just thought of.  Feeling this blah has helped me to realise how "un"blah I've been feeling lately.

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ChessieCat

Almost back to "normal".  Still not quite 100% but much better than the last few days.  I'm surprised at how much it has affected me.

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eymen23
15 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Something I've just thought of.  Feeling this blah has helped me to realise how "un"blah I've been feeling lately.

 

Every cloud..... 

 

Well observed Chessie. Super impressive that you’ve come this far on the taper and continued to be active. 

Edited by eymen23

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mdwstrx

Hi Chessie. 

I'm sure you already know but you're a trail blazer for some of us here. 

Praying that your taper settles down and the blah feeling leaves. 

I looked at your chart and was so impressed to see how far you've come. 

 

 

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ChessieCat

Thanks guys.

 

I've been out this morning and coped really well.  I was a bit quieter at the ladies' Bible study but did join in and have a good laugh with everyone and didn't zone out when others were talking.  Foggy head is definitely clearing and I'm able to think better.  Even went into my main suburb and didn't get irritated by anything.  It's amazing what a contrast it is to how I was feeling.

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ChessieCat

Well another 3 weeks have gone and I am now down to 4mg.  I don't know which is more surprising, that my dose is so low, or that 3 weeks goes so quickly.

 

I had 6 capsules of 4mg dose left.  But I've decided not to use those and just go to 2mg morning and night so I don't get interdose withdrawal.  It's been working up until now and I think my morning agitation is less when splitting my dose.  Very glad that it is only 6 capsules I'm wasting, but I'd rather be cautious and not rock the boat.  As it is I'm changing from 4mg am and 0.25mg pm to 2mg morning and night, so my dosing isn't consistent.

 

I've recovered from my "dumping" at the end of February, but was surprised at how long it took to recover from.

 

I have noticed a big improvement in my ability to remember things.  One of the songs in the previously posted list has 21 flower names in the chorus and I can remember all of them in the correct order.  The ABC of Australia includes the names of Australian places, most have 2 places per letter of the alphabet so about 50 place names.  I can remember all of those.  That mightn't sound like a big thing, but up until recently I had difficulty remembering most things.  I also listen to audio books and I'm starting to remember what happened earlier in the story and remember details about the people mentioned.  I think it's a combination of getting lower on the drug plus continuing to use my brain.  I've played lots of games on the computer which I think has helped.  I noticed the other day that I'm starting to be able to think ahead more and try and work out the different options.  This was obvious when I've been sewing this week.  My thinking is much clearer.  I'm better able to brain storm and come up with solutions.

 

I'm still having a bit of trouble with my sleep.  If I have a rough night of intermittent sleep or early waking then I generally have to have a day time sleep, which of course means that the next night is disrupted.  I don't stress about it, just sleep whenever I can if I need to and I'm sure that it will gradually get back to a routine.

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mdwstrx

Hi Chessie.  I am so happy for you as you get down and are seeing such good improvements! 

Sorry to hear about the sleep though.  I'm sure you know this but the fish oil helped a great deal for me to sleep. 

 

 

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ChessieCat

Hi mdwstrx, thanks for telling me that.

 

I've recently stopped taking fish oil.  When I first joined SA I started taking magnesium and fish oil at the same time.  I started getting backaches but because, silly me, had started 2 new things at the same time I didn't know which was causing it, if either.  I stopped taking both and then reintroduced magnesium and was fine.  I then started fish oil, which I've been taking for 3 years.  Recently I started getting backaches again and wondered if it was the fish oil causing it, so I've stopped it for the time being to see if they go, and will reintroduce and see what happens.

 

The most likely cause of my sleep issues is that we had lots of hot weather over a 2 month period from Christmas time so I started sleeping whenever I could/needed.  I think that is still having an effect on my sleep because I just haven't been able to break the bad pattern.

 

On a positive, I did get up during the early hours of this morning and managed to go back to sleep reasonably quickly afterwards and slept for about 4 hours.  So hopefully that's a sign that things might be improving.

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JackieDecides
2 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

On a positive, I did get up during the early hours of this morning and managed to go back to sleep reasonably quickly afterwards and slept for about 4 hours.  So hopefully that's a sign that things might be improving.

 

sleep is so important, I hope things do and continue to improve. 🤗

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ChessieCat

Thanks Jackie.

 

UPDATE:  I've made the decision to hold for an extra week this time, ie 4 instead of 3 (see link in signature for explanation of why I sometimes only hold for 3 weeks instead of 4).  I've already added the extra capsules to my containers.

 

There are a few reasons for this.

 

  • The dumping I got at the end of February which took at least 1 week to recover from
  • The change in split dosing amounts from 4.25mg (4 in am + 0.25 in pm) to 4mg (2 am + 2 pm)
  • A near miss last Sunday when I nearly hit a 10-12 year old boy on a scooter who shot out across in front of me as I was about to take off from the traffic lights after they changed in my favour.
  • Ongoing sleep routine issues
  • Heat exhaustion on Christmas Day
  • Periods of high temperatures from end of December to end of February with a few odd hot days thrown in during March

 

Now that I have listed them it makes good sense to hold for at least an extra week.

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ChessieCat
On 3/12/2019 at 10:06 AM, ChessieCat said:

A near miss last Sunday when I nearly hit a 10-12 year old boy on a scooter who shot out across in front of me as I was about to take off from the traffic lights after they changed in my favour.

 

Five days after this incident I was nearly side swiped when changing lanes on a freeway.  I ended up in tears.  This was not my usual reaction.  I usually think wow, that was close and weren't you (the other driver) stupid.  That afternoon after work I felt nauseous when I first got onto the freeway to go home but realised what it was and did some deep breathing and it went.

 

Monday of this week I noticed that when walking from the railway station to work I was constantly scanning looking for danger.

 

Yesterday I had a couple of minor things happen when driving and I didn't have any abnormal reaction in either case so things have definitely improved when driving.

 

However I did notice that yesterday at work I found it very difficult to settle and wanted to be elsewhere.  After work I went for a 3 hour drive.  It wasn't quite so bad today thankfully.

 

I've also noticed that in the last few days I'm not getting as irritable with my cat as I had been.  She can be very contrary, wanting to get up for a cuddle then as soon as she's up she wants to get down and then not long after she wants up again and then down straight away so it can be annoying but when I'm on edge I can get very frustrated with her.  I must admit that part of me is thankful that I don't have to cope with having another human being around.

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Carmie

Dear ChessieCat, 

 

I’m so sorry you’ve been going through such a hard time lately, sending lots of hugs🤗🤗

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JackieDecides
2 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Five days after this incident I was nearly side swiped when changing lanes on a freeway.  I ended up in tears.  This was not my usual reaction.  I usually think wow, that was close and weren't you (the other driver) stupid.  That afternoon after work I felt nauseous when I first got onto the freeway to go home but realised what it was and did some deep breathing and it went.

 

 

after two such scary incidents I really really admire you can keep on driving! good for you! 

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neroli

Hello ChessieCat

 

Good to hear that things may be improving after a rough ride.  Let's hope this week is more on an even keel and that you are stabilising from the drop.

 

I must say the heat at night causes me unsettled sleep, so let's hope that now it's getting to autumn things will cool down a bit (yet I see on our weather forecast that there are a few hot nights predicted for us - probably nothing compared to what you get, thought0.

 

Love and best wishes

 

Neroli x 💜

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ChessieCat

Thank you "guys".

 

UPDATE:  Seems like the cause of the hives is cabbage.  It is high in histamine.  When I first ate it I got hives but over summer I have been eating coleslaw regularly and had no issues.  It's been a couple of weeks since I had any and I've eaten it the last 2 days and have hives again this morning.

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