☼ ChessieCat: so I'm not the only one (Pristiq / desvenlafaxine)

[bubbles]

3 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

My suggestion would be to just tip it into the water and let it sit without disturbing it.  I had to cut my capsule to open it but it all seemed to come out.  Mine contained a cellulose powder and the parts that didn't mix in when I whisked it did end up dissolving after I left it for several hours.  What I plan to do is to only stir it just before extracting a dose. 

 

I'm home most of the day today so I can set a timer to check every half hour or so and get an idea of how long it takes.

 

[Cruizer]

4 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Yes, I know that the suspension liquid is dear.  My compounder told me that he would charge me $15 to make a up a batch for 1 month which isn't too bad.  But if I can make my own liquid from the capsules I've already got then it will work out cheaper.  Even if I have to get him to makes up 2mg capsules (batch of 100) if I run out the cost will be a lot cheaper.

 

Looks like I may have been able to help you out for once Chessie. Even if it was just a question I had lol.

Keep up the good work with your taper, you have come so far!

 

[ChessieCat]

Thanks Cruizer.

 

Just found this elsewhere and wanted to put is here as a reminder.

 

BRILLIANT   🌟

 

10 hours ago, ten0275 said:

 

I know how disappointing it can be to have to wait. I remember sometimes having to hold many months between cuts and hating how much that "set me back." Ultimately however, it was wise to wait in retrospect. The pauses weren't setting me back, they were setting me up for eventually successfully jumping.

 

[bubbles]

22 hours ago, bubbles said:

 

I'm home most of the day today so I can set a timer to check every half hour or so and get an idea of how long it takes.

 

 

It didn't seem to dissolve as such but it certainly dispersed in the water. I think it will be better in the suspension fluid.

[getofflex]

2 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

I know how disappointing it can be to have to wait. I remember sometimes having to hold many months between cuts and hating how much that "set me back." Ultimately however, it was wise to wait in retrospect. The pauses weren't setting me back, they were setting me up for eventually successfully jumping.

I love this!  I needed to hear this.  Thank you.  

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, bubbles said:

 

It didn't seem to dissolve as such but it certainly dispersed in the water. I think it will be better in the suspension fluid.

 

Do you have any alcohol on hand?  You could try using a tiny amount of that.

 

Or try doing what I did and use a mini whisk.

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by ChessieCat

[ChessieCat]

UPDATE:

 

Still feeling a bit worse that my WDnormal but it does seem to be improving a bit.  I've had to do a lot of self talk this morning about a small inconvenience that really bugged me, when generally I would be able to go with the flow.  But at least I didn't feel close to tears about it which probably would have happened a few days ago.

[Frogie]

Glad to see you’re feeling better!

Hopefully you will continue on that path

 

[bubbles]

10 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Do you have any alcohol on hand?  You could try using a tiny amount of that.

 

Or try doing what I did and use a mini whisk.

 

 

I could try a whisk. Probably not keen on trying it in alcohol at this stage.

 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

Thanks Frogie.

 

UPDATE:

 

My WD irritability is definitely reducing.  It's been 2 weeks since my reduction.  I'm really glad I didn't have to updose.

 

Back issue:  Still having to be very careful about sideways movement but there does seem to be very slow and gradual improvement.  I've been going to hydro 6 days a week for 3 weeks now.  I've noticed a big improvement in my core body strength.  I do need to start incorporating some treadmill walking everyday.

 

Tooth issue:  Went to dentist on Wednesday and he managed to pull out about 3 or 4 tiny bits of tooth fragment.  There is definitely still 1 piece there and this morning I think I might have found a "new" piece in a different area.  I want to make sure that there is no pressure discomfort in case I end up getting dentures in the future.  I have another appointment with the dentist this Wednesday.  He said if there are still issues that he will make arrangements to see the dental surgeon, but he said that last time I saw him.

[Lucy1983]

ChessieCat 5 years of tapering and still having WD problems. And... still helping so many people on a daily basis. Bless your heart! You must be a superwoman!!! I hope you feel lots better very soon. 

[marie123]

Hi Chessie. It is funny you mentioned the tooth fragments since your extraction. I have been rinsing with warm salt water since my recent root canal. Last year I had an extraction on the other side. I was feeling a "pointy" thing in the empty area with my tongue. I started messing with it and low and behold a tiny tooth piece came out. I remember the dentist saying it could happen in the future. I suggest warm salt rinses. Marie.

[ChessieCat]

On 9/12/2020 at 8:14 AM, ChessieCat said:

Reduced to 0.625mg today a 16.6667% decrease.

 

Edited:  0.75mg to 0.625mg is a 10% reduction.

 

I realised last night that I got my calculations wrong and my last reduction was 10% from 0.75mg to 0.675mg.  I've got no idea where I got 16% from.

 

My irritability did definitely increase.  I'm now wondering if it might have been due to the change in the weather shortly afterwards because we ended up getting very strong winds and the wind has always made me irritable.

 

But the other calculated percentages are correct.  I've ordered some syringes which I should have before my next reduction.  It's good to know that I'm not going to have to make really big decreases.

[Erell]

hello Chessiecat, 

 

0.625mg, another step toward freedom !

Your slow taper and patience really is a nice inspiration.

 

12 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

My irritability did definitely increase.  I'm now wondering if it might have been due to the change in the weather shortly afterwards because we ended up getting very strong winds and the wind has always made me irritable.

 

I've noticed that strong wind can have an effect my mood too : my tip is to go underneath my blankets and feel grateful for being in a warm place while listening to the wind outside

 

Hugs

[ChessieCat]

Yes, Erell, every step headed in the right direction will get us there eventually.

 

The following could be the reason I felt irritable:

 

I've been feeling very frustrated and down over the last week and started getting some back and leg pains.  It was very confusing because I would have times when I felt good and then I would feel worse and I didn't know if my back injury was recovering or worsening.  So I decided to see the physiotherapist.  It's just as well that I did.  She was very thorough and it turns out that I've been over doing the exercising and my gluteal muscles are tired.  She told me that the symptoms for the bulging disc (L4), sciatica and gluteal fatigue all very similar.  She is confident that I have recovered from the bulging disc.  She wants me to cut back on the exercising and says that things should be greatly improved in about 1 week's time.  She also did acupuncture followed by massage to help get things firing again in my glute muscle.  It was such a huge relief to find out that it wasn't my back injury and that the discomfort and any pain I get is not causing more damage to it.  This afternoon I managed to go out for a bit of a drive.

 

Yesterday afternoon I had another very tiny piece of tooth come out all by itself.  The gum is healing over but there is still a strange sensation when I press on parts of the area with my tongue so I suspect that there is still more there.  When I saw the dentist this afternoon he took some photos of the area and will discuss it with one of the surgeons, and will ring me if I need to see him.  So it's a wait and see approach and to contact them if I have issues.

 

So one huge relief and a smaller relief.  Another week and I'm hoping I can be enthusiastic about doing my house work.

[ChessieCat]

Reducing to 0.56mg today (10.4% reduction) which will be a combination of compounded capsule/s plus liquid made from the contents of a compounded capsule.  The contents dissolved easily without any need for mixing (but I will stir before extracting dose).  I just emptied contents onto the top of the measured out water.

 

I took 0.625mg for 5 weeks.

 

Tooth issue:  Things have settled down.  There is still at least one small piece in the gum which is sensitive when I feel it with my tongue but it's not causing any issues at this time.

 

Back issue:  On Monday this week, 12 days after seeing the physio, I woke up with a lot of discomfort and felt suicidal (but not planning to do anything).  When I rang to get an appointment to see her she was not available until the end of the week so I asked if having a remedial massage might help.  She said it wouldn't hurt.  Thankfully they had an appointment available and when I saw him he said that I had a combination of weak, tired and tight muscles in my lower back - lucky me, a trifecta!  He worked on the muscles and gave me some stretches to do.  I also decided that I would return to platform hydro exercises (Mon Wed Fri) because they are not as intense as exercising in the deep water.  I also have 4 exercises to do on the non-hydro days.  Tuesday and Wednesday I was extremely tired but I started feeling a bit better on Thursday.  When doing hydro on Fri I was able to feel once I had reached my limit which hadn't happened before.  I'm seeing the remedial massage therapist again on Monday.  I still sometimes get the numb/strange sensations down my left leg and occasionally a very little bit in my right leg but I've found a stretch which helps with that.  I've also started sleeping with a pillow under my waist which helps with the hip pain I get at night.  All of what I am experiencing now is related to my lower back muscles so it's a case of exercising to strengthen without overdoing it, doing stretches, getting enough rest but still moving around and massage.  Our bodies are amazing things with how it's all inter-related.  Just like ADs and the brain, mess up one thing and there is a chain reaction.

[ChessieCat]

My recent reduction using a combination of capsules and liquid made from capsules is going okay so far.  Today is day 5.  I have a laugh to myself every night when I take my liquid portion of 6mL which contains 0.06mg Pristiq (full dose is 0.56mg).  It seems such a small amount but I know from my own experience and that of others that it can make a difference.

 

Back issue:  I had another remedial massage on Monday.  Yesterday I wasn't as tired as I was after the first massage.  Just as I expected would probably happen I'm starting to get issues elsewhere in my body, the domino effect.  At least it didn't catch me unawares.  I've been fairly sedentary over the last 5 years so many of the issues that I'm dealing with now were sort of pre-existing with the back injury and subsequent misuse/abuse of muscles tipping the scales.  I've decided that I might as well make the best of it and get myself fixed up as best as I can (will be getting an exercise and strengthening plan once my muscles are working like they should) and hopefully it will enable me to be stronger and more active.  I'm about to turn 63 so I think it's a good idea to get my body "tuned up" now.

[ChessieCat]

Well tomorrow, 27th October, will be 5 years since I joined SA.

 

Still so incredibly thankful for this site and the information, wisdom and support that I was given upon arriving which allowed me to make the decision to updose and then start tapering at a rate which has kept my withdrawal symptoms to a minimum.  If it hadn't been for this site I might be still on my Pristiq or some other drug or additional drug.

[getofflex]

Hi Chessie, happy 5 yr anniversary!  Before I joined SA, I thought I could get off AD's in several months.  Ha! My tapering journey has now been going on for over 3 years.  I'm still on a small amount, 0.15 mg.  I intend to get off this extremely slowly!  It has been a very tumultuous roller coaster ride for me.  

[RachelSusan]

Hi Chessie,

 

Happy Anniversary. Your post really resonated with me.

 

First I would like to thank you for all you have given this site. You have helped me in the past and I appreciate your time and wisdom.  I agree, if it weren't for this site I would be in big trouble, but specifically if if weren't for you and the other moderators here there wouldn't be the people to help us.  Thank you.

 

I am now four plus years into tapering. I never dreamed that it would take as long as it is taking, but by going slowly I have minimized the pain.

 

Thank you again Chessie and happy anniversary to you.

 

Rachel

[ChessieCat]

Thanks "guys", much appreciated.  And all the best for your tapers too!

 

When I joined I had no idea I would still be here 5 years later.  And I wanted to be off by my 60th birthday (3 years ago).

 

But as many of us here at SA know it's better to get of with the least amount of suffering possible.

[ChessieCat]

Well the latest.  Mid afternoon yesterday I developed a sore throat, which wasn't just throat in mouth area, but down into my lungs.  I had done 10mins fast walking on the treadmill before lunch and thought that might have caused it.  My temperature was okay.  This morning I still had the same feeling but it didn't feel as bad.  I walked on the treadmill the same as yesterday.  Then at least 1 hour later, probably 2, I checked my temperature and it's just over 37 degrees, so I'm off to the Covid testing centre after my groceries have been delivered.

[ChessieCat]

Just got my covid test result - negative.  I would have been very surprised if it had come back as positive.  This morning my temperature was okay and the soreness in my chest was less that it had been.

 

Just feeling tired and under the weather.

 

The main reason I went for the test was because I've been going to physiotherapy and hydro and was concerned about them.

[sunnysideup69]

On 10/26/2020 at 8:27 AM, ChessieCat said:

Well tomorrow, 27th October, will be 5 years since I joined SA.

 

Still so incredibly thankful for this site and the information, wisdom and support that I was given upon arriving which allowed me to make the decision to updose and then start tapering at a rate which has kept my withdrawal symptoms to a minimum.  If it hadn't been for this site I might be still on my Pristiq or some other drug or additional drug.

Happy SA birthday! Thanks for the help you've given me and so many others 😘

[ChessieCat]

Thanks SSU.

 

I might have missed my capsule dose last night (0.25mg of 0.56mg), or could have been the night before.  I am fairly certain that I have missed a dose in the last few nights because I count out my capsules at the start of the reduction and I checked them on Friday or Saturday and the amount was correct.

 

Even with my tick off page and routine mistakes can happen.  I took the liquid portion 0.06mg.  It would have been better if I'd missed that instead of the capsule.

 

Oh well I feel pretty rotten anyway with my cold, and sore sides from coughing, so a bit of withdrawal in the mix isn't going to make much difference.  Better now when I'm sick than for it to happen when I'm feeling good.

 

We carry on regardless.  As Dory from Finding Nemo sings:  just keep swimming, just keep swimming, just keep swimming, swimming, swimming

 

And if you want to see the short clip:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Hkn-LSh7es

 

[GirlfromD]

On 10/26/2020 at 9:27 AM, ChessieCat said:

Well tomorrow, 27th October, will be 5 years since I joined SA.

 

Still so incredibly thankful for this site and the information, wisdom and support that I was given upon arriving which allowed me to make the decision to updose and then start tapering at a rate which has kept my withdrawal symptoms to a minimum.  If it hadn't been for this site I might be still on my Pristiq or some other drug or additional drug.

Hi ChessieCat. Congratulations with your 5 year anniversary! Thank you for all that you have done for us on this site, and thank you for the help you provided me with in the beginning of my withdrawal. I wish you all the best in the future. 😊

[ChessieCat]

Thank you GirlfromD.

 

UPDATE:

 

Thankfully my missed dose didn't seem to cause any issues.  Or at least none that I noticed (might be due to still having muscles issues though so I don't notice withdrawal).  I'm due to reduce again at the end of this week.  I'm still very relieved knowing that I can make ~10% reductions with liquid instead of being restricted to going down by 0.125mg increments.  The liquid seems to be working okay.  Next reduction is only capsules. 

 

Cold:

 

It was a cold you have when you don't have a cold.  I didn't get a runny nose, but did feel under the weather, tired, puffy eyes, swollen neck glands, sore throat, chest, dry cough.  But someone possibly made a connection.  On the Monday I had a massage with cupping, Tuesday I had dry needling, I started back on the treadmill (Wed & Thurs)  at an increased intensity and I started getting sick Thursday after lunch.  So it might have been related to that.  It took just over 1 week to recover.

 

Back:

 

I've still been having issues with my muscles and a nerve being affected but things are slowly improving.  I started a clinical pilates class yesterday (the head physio is teaching it so knows our issues and adapts to suit the individuals) and it was really helpful and even though I was tired during it (and a few times nearly burst into tears - self talk got me through) afterwards I took a walk started to feel really good. 

 

I found it very difficult to not make comments during the class.  I have a wacky sense of humour and can find something funny in a lot of things and I had a lot of humerous thoughts come to mind during the class.  It took a lot of effort not to say them out loud.  Eg we were using the fitness rings and we had to put them over our heads and squeeze them.  I wanted to call out, we are pretending to be angels, when we held them in front of us I wanted to say, we're going for a drive. I truly thank God for my sense of humour but sometimes it can be hard not to share it with everyone else.

 

Tooth:

 

This has settled down a lot.  I had a very tiny piece come to the surface on the outside the other day.  I could feel it with my tongue and I think I managed to get it out with my finger nail.  I did feel it scraping.  The inside which is where the largest amount of tooth fragments were has healed over but I'm sure there is still bits there, however whereas before when I touched with my tongue it was a very strong sensitive feeling it is barely there now.  I'm not messing around with it anymore.  It will come out when it's ready.

[ChessieCat]

I posted this elsewhere but wanted to put it here for my own records.  It's a helpful reminder of how far I've come.

 

1 hour ago, ChessieCat said:

 

There have been some very difficult times during this process (and even just a couple of days ago the switched flipped for a short time) but I'm starting to see small benefits now and am seeing the whole journey as being a good thing and benefiting me in the long term.  And the non drug coping techniques which I've learned from here have really helped me to get through it.

 

Here's an example of how I am at the moment (fragile), how situations affect me (almost in tears) and how I am managing it (lots of self talk).  I am not sure if it's withdrawal, covid isolation, fitness recovery, but I suspect that all three are part of it.  Today I went for a long drive and 1/2 hour after starting I called into McDonalds to get a thickshake.  There now only have self serve ordering, which I don't like at the best of times.  I have used the McDs ones before so I was familiar with them.  Aha, but they have changed it.  I order the thickshake, next question would you like to add anything.  I looked to the left and bottom of what they were offering and couldn't find anywhere to continue to pay for my thickshake.  I asked the guy next to me (of course no staff around to ask) and had pointed to one of the selection boxes which said no selection.  So I was doing okay.  Then the next step, would you like to round up to make a donation.  That annoyed me.  Then somehow I ended up ordering a second thickshake.  At this point I nearly walked out because I was starting to tear up.  So I cancelled the lot and decided to try again.  Somehow I finally managed to get through and complete the order.  I ended up having a bit of a rant to the guy who had helped me (not as much as I normally would have though) because I needed to let off a bit of steam.  I had to do self talk and I started feeling a bit better but there was a delay so I started walking around to try and wear off some of the adrenaline.  Finally got the thickshake, went outside and tasted it and it was horrible.  I wasn't angry, more disappointed.  It was an iced coffee and it tasted like I had cleaned my teeth before drinking it.  I was going to keep going and then I thought, no, I've paid $5 for this and I'm not going to enjoy it and I've had the iced coffee one before and I enjoyed it.  So I took a deep breath and calmly went inside and told the lady that it tasted horrible, that I had had one before and could I please exchange it for a chocolate one. 

 

I got out of the car because I wanted to walk around.  Next time I'll go through the drive through and walk around afterwards!!!  At least then I can tell them what I want and not have to deal with the stupid self serve.

 

About 20 minutes later I had two cars cut in front of me (one before the lights changed and one after the lights changed and they were both so close that if I had been going faster and/or not been alert I would have hit them, one from either side at the lights.  I was close to losing it (after the second one I shouted what is going on?) but then told myself to calm down, and that nothing happened.

 

I've told you this for a few reasons:  1) so you can see how something very minor affected me so that you can see that it is not just you that is having difficulties, which I think you already know, but sometimes actually knowing the details makes it more real, that it is happening to a real person, not just an online entity, 2) so that you can see that it is possible to get through it, and 3) the selfish reason - I wanted to have a whinge about it!

 

I did end up having a nice day out (and what happened at the start could have spoiled the whole day).  It did get a bit stressful at times because I went somewhere that I had never been before so it was unfamiliar (I got lost driving there even with my sat nav, I had to ask for directions to get from the car park into the shops because there were no signs, I got lost in the shopping centre, I had to ask how to get back to my car because I hadn't taken any notice where I was or which level I was on so didn't know which level to get out of the elevator and I asked for directions about how to get out of the car park) but I managed it.  I didn't look at it as a bad thing.  I see it is part of my recovery process.  And the whole time I was out I had to keep telling myself to chill and that I was okay.

 

BTW - I could have spent $10 and got the items posted.)  But that would have been the easy way out.  I knew it was going to be helpful to do it.)  It cost me at least that in petrol.  On the way back I stopped in a park and ate my salad that I bought.

 

It's hard work!  But I feel like I've achieved something.  And of course now when I go out next time I can remind myself that I got through this okay so I can do it again.

 

 

[SkyBlue]

You absolutely have achieved something, Chessie Cat. So wise to look back and see how far we've come. I actually think I remember this post where you talked about the cars. I seem to randomly remember reading it from near the time I first joined SA. 

 

You've come a long way and I know will continue to heal! ! ! 

[ChessieCat]

Thanks SkyBlue.  Being part of this community is helpful, because people here really do understand how something small (in others' eyes) can actually be a huge achievement.  Yes, the cars was to do with me getting a new car earlier in the year (and only being moderately excited and my daughter getting a second hand one at the end of the year and me getting very excited and jumping up and down when I saw some whales.  That was 3.5 and 3 years ago respectively now.

 

It can be very easy to miss the improvements, either because it was something small mixed in with the bad stuff so it wasn't recognised, or we just forget it.  And I don't talk much to people in real life about "this stuff".

 

Note to self for later:  Also called past childhood home.  Knocked down, rebuilt, lovely 2 storey duplex.  Remembering the names of the families in the street.  Did not feel sad or regretful.  Just enjoyed the experience.

[ChessieCat]

UPDATE:  Reducing to 0.5mg Pristiq today!!!

 

Couple of funny things:

 

I decided to do an experiment the other day and cut up a Pristiq tablet and put it in water to see if it works (it didn't, the larger parts just went gluggy.  It needs to be ground up).

 

My fingers were dry so generally I would not wash them afterwards.  However I realised that I had been handling a 50mg tablet and might still have some on my fingers and thought it wasn't a good idea to not rinse them and risk licking my fingers later on. 

 

My current dose is 0.56mg so just a tiny bit of powder could be a considerable accidental updose and I might not even realise it.

 

I also put a cover over the plastic cup that I'd filled with water and put the chopped up tablet in so that I don't accidentally drink it.

  

And then, last night was the last night of my 0.06mg liquid portion of my dose.  I keep it in the fridge in a plastic bowl with a lid.  Last night after I took my dose I thought okay I don't need the rest of this (new dose is capsules only) and I'll dispose of it.  Then because I was a bit thirsty and it was cold and clear "water" I nearly picked it up and drank it. 

 

It would have been almost a 1mg dose!  And I'm reducing to 0.5mg today!  It just goes to show how easy it is to mess things up.

[Erell]

Wow, when I read your post for the first time I thought you calmly decided to drink the last portion ...had to re-read it to undertsna dyou did NOT

And glad you did NOT  

 

Oh yes, I do think it is easy to mess things up. I try to stay focus when it's time to take my meds : the other day I got distracted byt the cat, and almost started to play with her, but then realised how quickly it could lead me to make mistakes. So now, I lock myself in the bathroom to make sure I'll stay alone and focus

 

On 11/14/2020 at 12:53 AM, ChessieCat said:

UPDATE:  Reducing to 0.5mg Pristiq today!!!

Yay !!!!! I can start to hear freedom here... 😃 

 

Sending hugs ❤️ 

[ChessieCat]

Yes Erell, soon to be released.  Ha ha!!!

 

UPDATE:

 

I noticed something this morning.  My memory is improving.  I've been listening to podcasts and audio books for quite a while now and I had been having a lot of difficulty remembering things.

 

Over the last couple of weeks I've been listening to two books at the same time, one during the day and the other at night in bed.  The first couple of books were a bit different.  However, the current ones have very similar voices and this morning I realised that I've been able to keep up with the different stories because I'm able to recall things.

[ChessieCat]

Some more good news.  I've eaten tomatoes (regular and cherry) for 5 days in a row now and haven't got hives.  So it's just another "clue" that it might have been the Roma/egg tomatoes causing them.  I know it's not a definitive conclusion and I might have adjusted to whatever it was.  I have some calamine lotion and antihistamine tablets, so I might do a test and get some egg tomatoes next time and see what happens because I do like them and they are cheaper than the little tomatoes for a tossed salad.

 

Back issue:

 

On 15 November I reached too far when showering and know that I shouldn't have done it and then it got worse when I did pilates the next night.  It's not as bad as it was but the sensations I've been getting are the same as when I first did it.  I've been on anti-inflammatory tablets for 2 weeks (different type) but still getting numbness down my left leg at various times.  I'm getting a CT scan done tomorrow.  It took a bit to convince the doctor to give me the referral but I explained to him that there are things that I need to do that I'm not doing because I'm concerned about whether it will make things worse.  I've got an appointment with the physio in a week's time and he wanted me to see her before the CT scan but I told him that she has previously said that my bulging disc was better and that the feelings down my leg are from muscles touching a nerve, so I was concerned that she would have a biased view.  At least with the CT scan (and it's a higher resolution than the first one) we will hopefully know whether the disc might still be causing issues.

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by ChessieCat

[ChessieCat]

UPDATE:

 

Reduced today from 0.5mg to 0.45mg Pristiq.

 

It's amazing how quickly 4 weeks goes by.

 

This time next year I will hopefully be off.  Yippee!!!

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by ChessieCat

[bubbles]

Yay! I'm also now working out how long it will all take. I had a long hold so I'm further behind you. What did you decide about more aggressive taper vs sticking with the 10%?