kyloren: Call me Kylo

[kyloren]

Call me Kylo. I've been know to tear computer consoles to shreds with my unstable lightsaber when I get bad news. 

 

I was first diagnosed with anxiety, maybe GAD, in about June of 2010. My son was born in February of that year and I made the decision to quit my job and play stay-at-home dad for a while. My anxiety, which I'd dealt with in the past, dating back to at least high school, but never really identified it, went from dormant to bad to worse in a matter of days.

 

I finally consulted my GP and I was placed on a low dose of Celexa and given Clonazapam for the bad moments. I stayed on this for about a year before decided I was better. I tapered off the Celexa and all was good for a couple of months. Then my anxiety and ruminations put me back into the depths of mental health hell. Were these withdrawal symptoms or an actual relapse? I now wonder.

 

GP thought relapse, and decided after hearing me complain about excessive sweating that we would try Fluoxetine this time. Maybe there would be less side effects. The onboarding for that dug was probably the worst 8 months of my life. Depression took the reigns and left me exhausted. Anxiety kept me from sleeping. I was on a 20mg dose for probably four years before upping it to 40mg around summer of last year.

 

This period was a rough one in my life. The sudden death of my 28-year-old brother-in-law put my wife of 13 years (diagnosed with OCD right before it happened) in a fragile state to say the least. In October 2015, she decided she needed to move out and get her head right. Side note: she also felt she didn't love me any more. At the same time she had returned to a drinking problem we'd experienced before. We reunited in November and are still together, so there's a happy ending there so far. Especially for my darling 6-year-old boy who is my everything.

 

December came, and after experiencing my separation and hearing things from my wife about my confidence leve, I decided I was tired of being on my antidepressant. Maybe it was weighing me down and hiding my old self. Sweating still gave me rashes, and many times when I'd take the pill I'd get the worst case of heartburn unless I took it at the precise right moment in the middle of dinner.

 

I did not consult my doctor at this time. I went cold turkey. I don't feel so bad about the former - I never got the impression he knew what he was doing prescribing those drugs. The latter, cold turkey, was likely less than intelligent.

 

It's been about two months since my last dose and I feel the other shoe starting to drop. Am I relapsing or withdrawing? I honestly don't know. Today I find myself wondering, should I get back on the AD, or power through to the other side. Did the AD actually help anything? Am I doing more harm than good by cleansing myself of it? Is it a cleanse at all? If ADs don't work, then what pulled me out of that first anxiety event?

 

These questions led me to Google, which led me here. 

 

Withdrawal/Relapse symptoms: wanting to cry, anxiety, depression, despair, moments of acute anger (where I'd normally be angry, just more pronounced)

[ChessieCat]

Hi Kylo and welcome to SA.  You've found the right place to get valuable information and support from a community which understands AD WD.

 

It will be helpful for you to put your drug history in your signature so people are better able to make suggestions about your individual situation.  Drug/s, dates, doses, how you went off.  How to Put Your History in the Signature.

 

Also, if you check out these links, they may help you understand what is happening:

 

Video: Healing from Antidepressants: Patterns of Recovery

 

Brain Remodelling

 

What is Withdrawal Syndrome?

 

Withdrawal Symptom Checklist

 

Also consider reinstating a small dose.  One of the mods should be able to suggest a dosage because you have been off for 2 months you shouldn't go back to the previous dose. 

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

If you decide to reinstate you can then stabilise and do a 10% taper.  You can use your Intro topic to ask questions and journal your progress.

 

CC

[Petunia]

Welcome Kylo,

Thank you for sharing your story, I'm sorry about everything you have been through, but its good to hear your relationship has survived, having supportive relationships can be an asset when going through withdrawal and recovery from psyche drugs.

 

Chessie has given you a lot of good information, so I don't want to add any more, have a look through those links and come back and ask any questions. Filling in your signature will be a big help for us.

 

Do I have this right, you went cold turkey off 40mg of Fluoxetine about 2 months ago?

 

Are you still taking Clonazapam? If so, how much and how often?  Are you taking any other medications?

 

And one more question..... how are you feeling? any symptoms?

 

When we have a few more details, we will be able to offer suggestions.

 

Petunia.

[kyloren]

Thanks for your replies! I filled in my sig. Sorry if it's a bit wordy.

 

To address your questions, Petunia:

 

Cold turkey isn't quite accurate. I'd say my last dosage was around Dec. 23. Prior to that I hadn't been taking it every day. I'd say for a good month or two I was taking it every other day at best.

 

Yes, I still take Clonazapam as needed. I have 1mg pills that I split and take maybe 3x a week when my anxiety is strong. Not taking any other medications.

 

How am I feeling? That depends on the day and time of day!  Right now I feel okay. A little tired. Yesterday was pretty bad. I was feeling really low/hopeless/anxious and had a moment of intense anger that probably drove me to feeling the way I did. Clonazapam put that away for the most part and I closed my day without feeling too terrible.

 

The low feeling comes and goes. I'll be honest, since stopping my dosage I've been waiting for the other shoe to drop. In the back of my mind I'm expecting a relapse. That doesn't help anything. But the last time I got off an AD (Celexa... which was also the only other time I got off an AD), my relapse/withdrawal was the lowest point of my life. 

 

That's the other thing. Is it relapse? Withdrawal? I know I've had anxiety issues since my teenage years. This is fact. I manage that better most days. Depression never really happened until the last five years.

 

I'm rambling now. Gonna disappear. 

[KarenB]

Hello Kylo,

 

Am I relapsing or withdrawing? I honestly don't know. Today I find myself wondering, should I get back on the AD, or power through to the other side. Did the AD actually help anything? Am I doing more harm than good by cleansing myself of it? Is it a cleanse at all? If ADs don't work, then what pulled me out of that first anxiety event?

The things you are describing all fit in with typical withdrawal symptoms.  Anxiety and anger can also be amplified by what we call Neuro Emotions.  This makes them more intense and more difficult to deal with.  It's one of the things that makes people think they are relapsing, and then they sadly end back up on drugs. 

 

You'd probably like to read Anatomy of an Epidemic which explains that ADs do often give people a window of time where things improve, but that after that they tend to deteriorate, leading people into cycles of trying different doses and different drugs.  A downward spiral.  It also explains how ADs cause depression and anxiety. 

 

Chessie gave you some good links which will explain why 'cleansing' the drugs out of your blood-stream doesn't fix w/d.  This is part of the reason why I agree with the others that reinstating a small amount would be helpful.  You could then stabilise, and taper gently so as to allow your brain to adapt as you go. 

 

I know there is a lot to get your head around right now.  Just keep reading and coming back to this thread to discuss things further.  Mostly what we see here is that after an initial phase of getting up to speed with the info, and coming to accept what is happening, people do settle onto a pathway of tapering and healing. 

 

Karen

[kyloren]

Had a low day today. First since I posted? No. Worst since I posted? Probably. Still I'm surprised how long it's been since I first came here. Makes me feel better about today.

 

Just sad today, a little despair. Hopelessness. All connected to pretty much nothing. Which makes it all the more annoying. I've had a bad cold and haven't slept the best. Tried to nap today but couldn't manage it. Found myself googling Magnesium. Works for some and not for others. Same as everything, right? I think about it and then I decide I'm tired of ingesting more to fight this.

 

I'm okay at the moment. Got in a three mile run and enjoying the pheromones. Is that even right? Not sure but I'll take it.

 

I wish everyone reading this wellness and joy.

[kyloren]

Laughing at myself. Endorphins. I meant endorphins.

[ChessieCat]

Yep, I'm LOLling too!!!  A lot!!!  Thanks for the laugh.

[kyloren]

Another low day. Started when I woke up. After my run yesterday I didn't feel down any more. Slept fine, seemingly.

 

Took .5mg Clonazepam around 8 a.m. and that quelled everything for a while. I worked some (I work from home with no one around, which isn't the greatest when I'm like this, honestly), texted and chatted with some folks. Was feeling fine really until about an hour ago when anxiety crept back in. Just had a moment where I felt like crying. I don't want to feel like this. I don't want any of us to feel like this. It doesn't feel natural and it's just exhausting.

 

I haven't really considered reinstatement. I have some 40 mg pills around, and maybe some 20s. But it all sounds so complicated, halving or quartering doses and such. And I'm not sure I want to ingest any of it any more.

 

Have considered Magnesium as well, but it seems about the same as everything else. Works for some, not for others.

[kyloren]

Enjoyed another 3 mile run today that has set my mood right again. Cooked some dinner for the family and am now laying down, still feeling all right. I don't think it makes a lick of sense. Ten minutes before I got out the door to run I was in tears, feeling hopeless. Since then (close to four hours ago) nothing like that at all. Exercise has always been a temporary fix, but the effects never seemed to last this long. Makes me question the validity of these overwhelmingly sad waves that are hitting me.

[KarenB]

Neuro emotions may explain the strangeness of the sad emotions.  

 

I understand about not wanting to ingest more poisonous drugs.  I feel the same way, although I am in order to taper slowly enough.  Yesterday at my doctors I actually told her I needed 'more of those damaging drugs.'  Probably not the usual request she hears!  But it made me feel better to express the truth of the situation.  

Overall it's the safest and least horrible way to get free of them.  My brain is already affected/damaged/changed, so I don't want to stress it further by suddenly leaving it to it's own devices and wrenching it's supports away.  I want to do it the kind way, easing the supports away and letting my brain adjust as it goes.  

 

Karen 

[kyloren]

Way to go, Karen! You tell 'em. I may get on the reinstatement train at some point. I just don't know.

 

I see from your sig you supplement with fish oil, vitamin E and magnesium. How do those work for you? Do they work in tandem or are they each for an individual [positive] effect? I've ready the threads on fish oil and magnesium; just wondering about your personal experience.

 

Today, I'm oddly okay. I say oddly because yesterday it was the end of the world before I went for a run. And now, pretty okay. I was a bit nervous when I woke up, but I think that was because I had some moderate anxiety about the depressive state returning. Anxiety about depression. Oh, the tangled webs we weave.

[AliG]

Hi Kyl.  At about 2 1/2 months  approx , out from C/T , if you are going to reinstate , you would maybe have to think about it fairly soon . Magnesium & fish oil , while helpful are not going to get rid of  withdrawal symptoms. Whilst , you are probably feeling  " not too bad " , right now , it can get much worse. It can hit you much further " down the track " .  Reinstating a small amount can help to alleviate withdrawal symptoms . Maybe 1- 2 mg . 

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

Have a read , and see what you think .

Ali

[kyloren]

Hi Ali! I've read through that initial post a few times now. My specific question would be, if I reinstate let's say 2mg.... how long do I hold before reducing to 1mg? I'm sure it's touch and go. I see the general rule of 10 percent reduction, but since I've cold turkeyed I'm sure I've thrown everything off. Seems like if I come in at 2mg my tapering process would be a lot shorter than some of the others I see on here. Not sure if that is wishful thinking or the right deduction...

[AliG]

Kyl.   I will try to answer , what I think you are asking.  If you reinstate say 2mg , you would hold until you felt stable . It would give your CNS time to adjust and stabilize.  As your symptoms decreased ,  you could taper  slowly.  After quite a long hold , you could think about tapering using the 10 % .taper method.

Yes , after C/T , all bets are off. There are no guarantees. Everyone reacts differently.  However, a small amount is sometimes enough to counteract  withdrawal .

Also , you are right , in so much as  you would only have 1-2 mg to taper off.  It would be a lot shorter tapering than some. Having said that , you ideally would go " slow" , as it gets tricky , as you get lower in dosage.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6036-why-taper-paper-demonstrates-importance-of-gradual-change-in-plasma-concentration/

 

The thing is , it doesn't matter how long you hold before reducing , if your quality of life is good.  That is the aim , here. To keep you , functional during this  process, with the least disruption to your life , as possible.

I hope this helps.

Ali

[kyloren]

It does help, Ali. Thank you!

 

Dealing with some pretty strong anxiety this afternoon. Set in around lunchtime. It is oddly physical anxiety. I'm shaky, had one hot flash, stomach is tight, etc. But I don't have my usual racing mind. Probably a good thing since I'm not feeding the anxiety, but still don't really understand the physical manifestation without the mental. 

[KarenB]

The fish oil and Vitamin E work together somehow - sorry, I read the explanations but I'm not very scientific myself so it's kind of in one ear and out the other.  I do know that you don't really feel the effects of them, but the omega-3's in the fish oil are essential for brain healing and rebuilding.  The Vit.E supports it's absorption or something... . 

 

The magnesium I'm not sure I feel either, but I've been taking it for quite a while now hoping it helps to calm me.  What I plan to do is in another month or two, take a break from it, and see if I notice the lack of it.  That's going to be my test.  I'll post on my thread at that time. 

 

Totally know what you mean about getting anxious about being depressed.  I get anxious about getting anxious .  Have you tried dancing to relieve anxiety?  This morning I did dancing in bed - with my arms and hands, and ended up feeling really joyful and flowing.  Then I danced while I made breakfast.  I think the movement might help to shift any anxiety before it builds up.  (Well, that's my totally non-scientific explanation). 

[kyloren]

Went for a run and staved it off again, though it started to creep back around dinner. Fortunately I had an adult kickball league game tonight so I spent my evening doing that and am feeling fine. Picked up a friend who had been hospitalized with a terrible syndrome for months and brought him out to the fields. It was good to see him walking again after several months stuck in a bed with little to no movement below the neck. Gave me a little perspective.

[kyloren]

Oh, and thanks for your reply, Karen! Maybe I'll try dancing next time... If I'm alone.

[kyloren]

Hello all. After a particularly rough afternoon, I have decided to reinstate 2mg of prozac. I bought an oral syringe, mixed 20mg with 20mg of water, and took a squirt of 2mg. Bitter stuff. Chased it with Gatorade. This was 15 minutes ago, so I don't expect I'd feel anything at this point. I did take .5mg of Klonopin about 30 minutes ago and it seems to have leveled me off.

 

I was in a bad way. Kinda manic. Quick to anger (though identifying it as neuro-anger immediately kept it in check). Crying, worried out of my mind, scared, no appetite, etc. I emailed a former therapist during the low evening (even a four mile run couldn't keep my calm for more than 30 minutes after) to see about setting up an appointment.

 

On the whole, after what was a day I'd like to soon forget, I feel I'm ending it having taken some positive steps. Not sure if reinstatement will do anything 2.5 months out, but I'm no longer trying to be the bigger man about it.

 

Wishing you all wellness and joy.

[Fresh]

Hi Kylo ,   you might be surprised how quickly you feel an effect on your system.  

Members AmyN and Franklander have both just reinstated , and felt big relief within hours.

 

You need to stay on that dose for 4 days until it reaches a steady-state in your blood stream.  Depending on your response , you can decide if you want to increase it at that point.

 

From personal experience , I'm a huge fan of reinstatement.  I applaud you ... there are no brownie points for "taking it like a man"  in this game.

 

Let us know how you go , best wishes ,  Fresh

[kyloren]

Thank you, Fresh. I honestly feel quite normal right now. Could be the benzo, but I'll take it. Where I was hours ago seems like an out-of-body experience at this point!