Jujube78: Feeling so lost- Long

[ChessieCat]

Hi Jujube,

 

Reinstating the Lexapro at a SMALL DOSE is an option although there are no guarantees (unfortunately).

 

What are you current symptoms?

 

I'm posting on the mod's board and will ask for their thoughts on a dosage.  The lower the dose your can reinstate to reduce your withdrawal symptoms the better.  It takes 4 days for the drug to reach steady state in the blood but you may have some improvement  during the first 24 hours.  It's important to Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

[Jujube78]

Hi Jujube,

 

Reinstating the Lexapro at a SMALL DOSE is an option although there are no guarantees (unfortunately).

 

What are you current symptoms?

 

I'm posting on the mod's board and will ask for their thoughts on a dosage.  The lower the dose your can reinstate to reduce your withdrawal symptoms the better.  It takes 4 days for the drug to reach steady state in the blood but you may have some improvement  during the first 24 hours.  It's important to Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

Thank you ChessieCat.

 

If I reinstate at 1mg and it works at taking the edge off, how long is the suggested time to hold at that? Does one still slowly taper off the 1mg at 10%?

 

Sorry for the questions. I just really want to try and fix this mess as best I can, if I can via this route.

[Altostrata]

Jujube, have your symptoms been getting worse, better, or the same for the last month?
 
This is from our previous discussion about reinstatement:
 

 

Jujube, I hear what you're saying. But as you were taking Prozac and Lexapro at the same time, varying the Xanax, and then going off Lexapro, how do you know it was the Prozac causing "surreal type feelings and heart palpations" and the other drug changes?
 
Since you have Prozac on hand, you might try 1mg. Follow the directions to make a liquid, and this should be fairly easy to do.
 
I'm confused about how often you take Xanax. What has been your schedule of Xanax use for the last few months?
 
It's very important that you keep notes on paper.

I take it twice a day now. .25 during the day and a .5 tablet at bedtime. It has been as such since last summer. I have .5 tablets and I break them in half for the daytime dose then take a whole one at night. Hope that helps!
 
And you are right, I do not know what is causing what at this point. I just know I want it to stop. I guess I assumed that because I had not taken the Lexapro in a month, it must be the Prozac causing the feelings/sensations. But I am not even going to pretend I know which way is up right now.
 
Thank you for your input. I appreciate it immensely!

 

Do you still have Prozac left?

[Jujube78]

Jujube, have your symptoms been getting worse, better, or the same for the last month?

 

This is from our previous discussion about reinstatement:

 

 

Jujube, I hear what you're saying. But as you were taking Prozac and Lexapro at the same time, varying the Xanax, and then going off Lexapro, how do you know it was the Prozac causing "surreal type feelings and heart palpations" and the other drug changes?

 

Since you have Prozac on hand, you might try 1mg. Follow the directions to make a liquid, and this should be fairly easy to do.

 

I'm confused about how often you take Xanax. What has been your schedule of Xanax use for the last few months?

 

It's very important that you keep notes on paper.

I take it twice a day now. .25 during the day and a .5 tablet at bedtime. It has been as such since last summer. I have .5 tablets and I break them in half for the daytime dose then take a whole one at night. Hope that helps!

 

And you are right, I do not know what is causing what at this point. I just know I want it to stop. I guess I assumed that because I had not taken the Lexapro in a month, it must be the Prozac causing the feelings/sensations. But I am not even going to pretend I know which way is up right now.

 

Thank you for your input. I appreciate it immensely!

 

Do you still have Prozac left?

Hi Altostrata,

 

   Yes I do have prozac left. So if that would be best to RI, I can do that. I have the link to how to make a liquid saved. I just need a knowledgable opinion on how much and if I stabalize, how long do I take it. I am assuming 1mg as you previously suggested?

 

   If it works, I am in NO rush to try and taper again. I could kick myself for not listening and trying to RI right after I came here. Hindsight, etc. I just wanted the meds gone....you know the story I am sure.

 

 

   My symptoms got worse again right around the 6 weeks mark of being off the Prozac. I am assuming I felt better for 3 or 4 weeks due to the Prozac still lingering in my body, but after it left, BOOM.

 

Thank you so much for your help.

[Altostrata]

That seems plausible. 1mg Prozac is probably the right amount. Please let us know how you do.

[JanCarol]

Hey JuJube, I'm sorry you've been struggling.

 

You said,

Another thing is I can't seem to express love  so well right now. I was always an affectionate partner but I feel so closed off/down right now. I hate it. I love my partner but it is an effort for me to show it via words or hugs etc.

 

I had this.  I still have remnants of it.  Some of it is from trauma, but some of it is drug induced anhedonia.  Others have felt this way:

Anhedonia Apathy Demotivation

 

Mine improved immensely when I tapered down to about half my dose.

 

I'm relieved that you are considering reinstatement.

 

Don't expect a miracle - but if we can just take the edge off of the worst of your symptoms, that is something to be grateful for, right?  ANY improvement after reinstatement is a clear sign that it is withdrawal (and you are not "relapsing"), and that we are on the right track.

 

I hope you feel better soon.  

[Jujube78]

That seems plausible. 1mg Prozac is probably the right amount. Please let us know how you do.

I mixed up a batch of the liquid last night and reinstated at the 1mg. So I guess I will see how I feel in a few days!

 

Thanks for your assistance Altostrata.

[ChessieCat]

Hi JJ

 

I hope you start to feel some relief soon.  Don't forget to keep dose and symptom notes on paper.  Good luck.

[Jujube78]

Hey JuJube, I'm sorry you've been struggling.

 

You said,

Another thing is I can't seem to express love  so well right now. I was always an affectionate partner but I feel so closed off/down right now. I hate it. I love my partner but it is an effort for me to show it via words or hugs etc.

 

I had this.  I still have remnants of it.  Some of it is from trauma, but some of it is drug induced anhedonia.  Others have felt this way:

Anhedonia Apathy Demotivation

 

Mine improved immensely when I tapered down to about half my dose.

 

I'm relieved that you are considering reinstatement.

 

Don't expect a miracle - but if we can just take the edge off of the worst of your symptoms, that is something to be grateful for, right?  ANY improvement after reinstatement is a clear sign that it is withdrawal (and you are not "relapsing"), and that we are on the right track.

 

I hope you feel better soon.  

Hi JanCarol,

 

   Thank you for taking the time to write. I truly appreciate it. I hope you are doing well.

 

   I too am kinda relieved that I decided to reinstate. I just could not cope with how intense the W/D has been. It has really wore me down!

 

   Thanks for sharing that you went thru the lack of feelings etc as well. It is just so "off" for me to be as such. It is funny....I had issues with "liking" myself before this, but now I see that I wasn't so bad.....not at all...in fact, I miss ME terribly. Ah well, I am trying to keep the faith that I will get back to it soon!

 

   And nope, I'm not expecting a miracle. I would just like to be able to blunt some of what I have been going thru. That would be wonderful at this point.

 

   I have learned so much from this community. I really had very little idea of how these meds truly worked until I came here. I did not even know the W/Ds could last as long as they can. I bought into the automatic relapse stuff the Dr told me and that was that. Back on full doses of the med or a new one.

 

   Just good to now know things I wish I had known before I ever took the first pil 6 years ago.

 

*crossing fingers that the RI helps!*

[Jujube78]

Hi JJ

 

I hope you start to feel some relief soon.  Don't forget to keep dose and symptom notes on paper.  Good luck.

Thank you ChessieCat! And will do.

[JanCarol]

So - JuJube - please describe for us your reinstatement?

 

Keep us posted as it goes - the first 4 days are the most telling.

 

It sounds like, making the decision to reinstate has actually eased some of your stress, which is good.

 

And if, by now, you're not having any negative effects, that gives me great hope, too.

 

Maybe I'm jumping the gun here, but I'm really pulling for you!  It can get better, and I'm really hoping that you are one of the ones who get better!

[Jujube78]

*Update*

 

I reinstated the prozac 1mg a week ago. I pretty much immediately felt a little better the next day and the next 3 or 4 days were even better. A LOT better. Minus not sleeping as good because of anxiety inducing dreams. I assume that was sort of a "start up" effect  of the reinstatement. But I actually got stuff done this week and was in general feeling pretty ok. Was very happy I took the advice given here and finally RI!

 

Until today.

 

I was moody most of the day with the gloomy type thoughts creeping back in. Tried to dismiss it as an off day. Then tonight I was hit with the unmistakeable w/d dizzies and the brain fog. I have been fidgety/restless again etc. It is like the w/d is creeping back in already.

 

Does anyone have any thoughts on what the heck could be going on and what I might try to do?

 

Also, I read that the prozac liquid should be good for up to 14 days in the fridge. I mixed it with cranberry juice and it has been in the fridge. The prozac capsules I have were not beads when I opened them, but powder. And I have made sure to shake it very good and take the exact same dose every night, via a marked syringe.

 

Could the liquid already have possibly lost its potency? Perhaps something about mixing it with juice??

 

I appreciate yalls thoughts on this. I am boggled over it, as it was going so well!

 

Thanks

[ChessieCat]

If you are starting to get dizzies and brain fog, you may need to increase your dose.  I'll ask the other mods what they think and what dose.

[Jujube78]

If you are starting to get dizzies and brain fog, you may need to increase your dose.  I'll ask the other mods what they think and what dose.

Thank you, ChessieCat!

[Altostrata]

Jujube, my preference is to mix the Prozac with water so you can see the condition of the liquid. You can take it in cranberry juice after you measure it out.

 

It's possible that it won't last for 14 days mixed with cranberry juice, there's sugar and acid in it.

 

Did your sleep improve? If so, it's also possible that you might do better with a little more Prozac, such as 2mg.

[Jujube78]

Jujube, my preference is to mix the Prozac with water so you can see the condition of the liquid. You can take it in cranberry juice after you measure it out.

 

It's possible that it won't last for 14 days mixed with cranberry juice, there's sugar and acid in it.

 

Did your sleep improve? If so, it's also possible that you might do better with a little more Prozac, such as 2mg.

Thank you again, Altostrata.

 

I will mix a batch with water from our water cooler in that case, and see what happens.I'm from  the south so I wager that I have tasted worse things than prozac water. LOL

 

My sleep did improve in terms of not being as restless, but I did begin to have anxiety causing dreams since RI. Not nightmares, just situations that were anxiety provoking and thus spilled over creating some fleeting morning anxiety. But it was well worth feeling better.

 

I am still very much in the learning phase of how these drugs truly work and affect us, so pardon me if what I am about to ask is a stupid question.

 

The 1 mg was working well for the first 5 days. Why would it seem to poop out a bit and require a dose increase so soon after starting? I am NOT objectionable to going up to 2mg to save my sanity, at all. I just really want to know/learn the method behind the madness of how these things work out as they do. If anyone has the answer or theory behind this and feels like educating me a bit, please do.

 

Thank you so very much.

[JanCarol]

Hey JuJube - 

 

  Thanks for sharing that you went thru the lack of feelings etc as well. It is just so "off" for me to be as such. It is funny....I had issues with "liking" myself before this, but now I see that I wasn't so bad.....not at all...in fact, I miss ME terribly. Ah well, I am trying to keep the faith that I will get back to it soon!

 

 

Thank you!  Here's a bonus - you may not like who you were, you may have struggled with self confidence and self esteem - but once you've been through the withdrawal grinder, you can learn to appreciate - how strong you are, how powerful your will to life and survive and thrive, how much you want to create quality of life - and all those "esteem issues" seem so minor by comparison!

 

The "Me" that you will have on the other side won't be the same me, but it has the possibility to be a better "Me."  At least that's what I have found.  Pain, health problems, suffering has given me great compassion for people who struggle - which is - everyone because we all have different paths.

 

Keep the flame, you can do this!

Jon Kabat-Zinn:

"The fact that you are breathing means there is more right with you than wrong with you in this moment."

 

 

You wrote:

Also, I read that the prozac liquid should be good for up to 14 days in the fridge. I mixed it with cranberry juice and it has been in the fridge.

 

Actually, it would be better to mix it with the cranberry AFTER you make the liquid, and (I am not a liquid expert) but I've heard that it gets weak pretty fast - like - around 4-7 days?  Though I like the idea of taking with cranberry, I've heard that the taste is not always the best!  

 

Track your symptoms, if the first 4 days are good, but the 8th day is terrible, you can figure out how long your doses are staying potent in the fridge.  You self reported 5 days.  That may be the limit of your liquid.  It may be better with plain water.  

 

You can always mix the liquid it with cranberry before you drink it.    Like a Prozac Scarlett O'Hara.

 

I see that Alto covered some of this, but I've said it differently, so I'll go ahead and post it.

 

It sounds like you are doing really well, just some fine tuning and I think you will stabilise soon.  That you responded right away is an excellent sign, and says we are on the right track!

 

I hope you see the sun today.  Y'all.  (do you know how refreshing it is for me, an Indiana girl in Australia, to hear "y'all!"  It's such a warm and inclusive word, so much better than the Brooklyn equivalent of "Youse."   Just had to say that.  Y'all!    )

[Jujube78]

Update:

 

  Not quite a whole week since upping to 2mg of prozac. So far so good. I dont feel like a million bucks but it has helped significantly.

 

Jujube

[Jujube78]

Hey JuJube - 

 

  Thanks for sharing that you went thru the lack of feelings etc as well. It is just so "off" for me to be as such. It is funny....I had issues with "liking" myself before this, but now I see that I wasn't so bad.....not at all...in fact, I miss ME terribly. Ah well, I am trying to keep the faith that I will get back to it soon!

 

 

Thank you!  Here's a bonus - you may not like who you were, you may have struggled with self confidence and self esteem - but once you've been through the withdrawal grinder, you can learn to appreciate - how strong you are, how powerful your will to life and survive and thrive, how much you want to create quality of life - and all those "esteem issues" seem so minor by comparison!

 

The "Me" that you will have on the other side won't be the same me, but it has the possibility to be a better "Me."  At least that's what I have found.  Pain, health problems, suffering has given me great compassion for people who struggle - which is - everyone because we all have different paths.

 

Keep the flame, you can do this!

Jon Kabat-Zinn:

"The fact that you are breathing means there is more right with you than wrong with you in this moment."

 

 

You wrote:

Also, I read that the prozac liquid should be good for up to 14 days in the fridge. I mixed it with cranberry juice and it has been in the fridge.

 

Actually, it would be better to mix it with the cranberry AFTER you make the liquid, and (I am not a liquid expert) but I've heard that it gets weak pretty fast - like - around 4-7 days?  Though I like the idea of taking with cranberry, I've heard that the taste is not always the best!  

 

Track your symptoms, if the first 4 days are good, but the 8th day is terrible, you can figure out how long your doses are staying potent in the fridge.  You self reported 5 days.  That may be the limit of your liquid.  It may be better with plain water.  

 

You can always mix the liquid it with cranberry before you drink it.    Like a Prozac Scarlett O'Hara.

 

I see that Alto covered some of this, but I've said it differently, so I'll go ahead and post it.

 

It sounds like you are doing really well, just some fine tuning and I think you will stabilise soon.  That you responded right away is an excellent sign, and says we are on the right track!

 

I hope you see the sun today.  Y'all.  (do you know how refreshing it is for me, an Indiana girl in Australia, to hear "y'all!"  It's such a warm and inclusive word, so much better than the Brooklyn equivalent of "Youse."   Just had to say that.  Y'all!    )

 

 

Hi JanCarol

 

 

   Thank you for your post! I appreciate how kind and upbeat your words always are.

 

 

   I hope you are right about coming out a different, stronger person on the other side of this journey. I am trying, for sure!

 

   I quit mixing it with juice and have just used water this week. I just take it directly out of the syringe/dose thingie and chase it down with whatever I have been drinking. It taste bitter as all get out, but it is a small price to pay for stability.

 

   I'm glad you got a smile out of my use of "ya'll". LOL Old habits die hard! One of my favorite things to say since I have been going through w.d and felt so weird is that my "cheese has slid off my cracker". Yes, southerners can be an odd bunch. But hey, sometimes you just have to laugh at it all!

 

   I hope you are having a beautiful day in Oz!

[ChessieCat]

Hi JJ,

 

"The 1 mg was working well for the first 5 days. Why would it seem to poop out a bit and require a dose increase so soon after starting? I am NOT objectionable to going up to 2mg to save my sanity, at all. I just really want to know/learn the method behind the madness of how these things work out as they do. If anyone has the answer or theory behind this and feels like educating me a bit, please do."

 

These are excepts from:  About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

What is known about reinstatement

• Some find a partial dose will relieve withdrawal symptoms. If, for example, you were taking 20mg Paxil and quit rapidly only a few days ago, 5mg or 10mg may be enough. Others find they need a higher dose.
• Start low to see what you need. You can always increase if necessary. If you've been off the drug for a month or more, many people can find relief from antidepressant withdrawal symptoms by reinstating as little as 1mg-5mg.

Additional reasons to reinstate only a partial dose

Reinstating at a low dose reduces the risk of severe adverse reactions in case reinstatement does not work.

• Experiencing withdrawal may have sensitized you to drugs and a larger dose will cause an adverse reaction.
• These drugs are vastly more powerful than they need to be and you want to be taking only the lowest EFFECTIVE dose.
• Your receptors may have adjusted somewhat (upregulated) during the time you had withdrawal symptoms.
• If you can stabilize on a lower dose, you have less to taper when you finally do go off.
• You can always adjust the dosage upward if you find you need to.

How long should you give reinstatement?

• The dose needed for effective reinstatement varies according to the individual.

Reinstate at what dosage?

Sometimes reinstatement not only doesn't work but makes symptoms worse. That is why we often suggest very, very low doses -- to reduce this risk. Higher doses can go wrong in much bigger ways. A very low dose is a way to explore the option with less risk.

 

The dosage is always going to be a guess. Here are some factors that might influence the dosage of reinstatement:

• If you've had withdrawal symptoms for a month or more, it's likely your system is somewhat sensitized to drugs. You might wish to try reinstating at a lower dosage, such as 2mg-5mg (if you had been taking 20mg Celexa).
• How long you've been off the drug. If you've been off the drug for many months, reinstatement is less likely to work. If you want to try it anyway, you might wish to try reinstating at a very low dosage, such as 1mg (if you had been taking 20mg Celexa).

 

See my blue highlight above and underlining.

 

I hope this summary of reinstatement points answers your question.

[ChessieCat]

The brain was thankful that it was receiving some of the drug again after having gone without it and reacted by reducing withdrawal symptoms.  Once the drug got to a steady state in the blood the brain realised it wasn't getting as much as it needed and started expressing this by producing withdrawal symptoms again.

 

A very simplified explanation but I think that it might help to explain it.

[JanCarol]

Hey JuJube - 

 

"Hey" - that's another one I got from Southerners.  Again, so friendly, so warm, so laid back.

 

I went to a boarding school in Tennessee.  When I got there, everyone was saying, "Hey!" and to me, a "northerner," the correct answer was, "WHAT?"    Fortunately, Australians like "Hey!" too.

 

How have you been going?  Are you still holding at 1 mg Prozac?  Have you decided to increase it?  If so, what was the result of that?

 

I hope y'all see the Sun today!