spectio Posted December 20, 2011 Author Share Posted December 20, 2011 Alto, just a response to your 6:32 message. You assumed I developed all these awful symptoms with withdrawal. The truth is I've had the nausea , the intense nervousness and I think the beginnings of the dizzyness before I actually started withdrawal. What are your thoughts on that? That was what started me thinkng I needed to get off the ad's. I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted December 21, 2011 Administrator Share Posted December 21, 2011 Apologies, spectio. I was thinking the symptoms started with withdrawal. I imagine you had plenty of tests to track down the nausea, etc. Did any of them show anything? It could be Remeron itself was causing your symptoms. See FDA info at http://www.drugs.com/pro/remeron.html Dizziness In US controlled studies, dizziness was reported in 7% of patients treated with Remeron, compared to 3% for placebo and 14% for amitriptyline. It is unclear whether or not tolerance develops to the dizziness observed in association with the use of Remeron. Nausea is also among the adverse effects. Were you taking any other medications at the same time as Remeron? Maybe you're having a drug-drug interaction. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
spectio Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 Hi, alto, yes ,I did have plenty of tests and tried different blood pressure medicines. I even stopped taking the remeron , pretty fast and the nausea continued. I was only off it for 10 days to two weeks before getting really depressed so I went back on it. It was 6 cmonths before I actually started withdrawal with my alternative dr. The nausea did finally get better, Though did not go away and I till have periods with it today, just not anything like early 2009. I tend to think it was the effects of the remeron and the buildup of the drug in my brain led to the nausea. The psych tried me on nmenda and geodon in the spring, and that is when the nervousness really took off. After that I knew I had to see someone else and we started withdrawal in the fall of 2009. Does anybody out there have a similar history after having been on remeron (or another ad) for this long and been made sick on it? Thanks for your reply, alto. Any more thoughts? I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted December 21, 2011 Administrator Share Posted December 21, 2011 It sounds to me like you had side effects from Remeron, and you shouldn't let your doctors experiment on you with psychiatric drugs again! This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
spectio Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 Hey, Alto, that's pretty much the way I feel about this thing too. Thanks for your agreement and for just being there! I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Nadia Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Hi Spectio, I just got done reading through your whole intro topic. The part where you mention me made me cry as I'm not doing so well with dealing with this lately... but it also was like a pat on the back, and has given me more determination to plow ahead. So, THANK YOU. I wanted to say about fish oils... Well, first, that it's really difficult to determine reactions for me with that. Some reactions are obvious. For example, if I take valerian or other normally calming supplements I'll immediately and consistently have a paradoxical reaction. But with fish oils I've gone back and forth with kind and amount. I realize some things could be helpful in the short term but harmful in the long term and vice versa. Or that the real effect of something might not show up for days or weeks or even months. In any case, that said, I was reading up about fish oils on The Healthy Skeptic's website, and he says that purified and concentrated EPA and DHA is not as well-absorbed as the natural oils. He also says the ratio of Omega 6 to Omega 3 oils is important... you want to lower your Omega 6 consumption. For this reason, he suggests it may be better to consume whole fish over fish oil: http://chriskresser.com/the-fish-vs-fish-oil-smackdown After reading over all the info on his site, I still have a bunch of questions*, but it makes sense to me that the natural form of fish oils would be better for you than distilled and concentrated high-potency fish oils (think of what they've done with soy protein, for example, and the health problems soy is causing now). So now what I am doing is eating as much fish as possible. Even if it's not fatty fish, fish in general has lower levels of Omega 6 oils, so it can improve your ratio (which means you absorb the Omega 3s better and need less of them). And I take undistilled fish oils (you have to make sure you get a good source so it's fresh and not contaminated... there are suggestions here: http://chriskresser.com/the-definitive-fish-oil-buyers-guide). In any case, perhaps it would help to eat more fish or take a non-ultra concentrated fish oil, and see if that will help without causing more nervousness. As for DHA vs. EPA, DHA is what is most present in our brain, but some studies suggest that for depression it is better to take higher levels of EPA than DHA and let your body do the conversion to DHA, while others suggest that since DHA is what your brain uses, you might as well take it directly. In the end I decided to side step this quesiton as well and use whole fish oil capsules, which contain other types of Omega 3s and other fats as well. (Though after doing a bunch of research I was leaning more toward the higher EPA than DHA hypothesis.) As for lowering cortisol: I was trying Seriphos, but taking one capsule at 9pm and then one capsule when I woke up in the middle of the night. I did that for two months, and it may be one of the things that helped. (Sometimes I've been curious about the salivary cortisol test to know when to take the Seriphos, but then I realized I can TELL when my cortisol is high... I had it checked with an AM blood test a couple of times, and figured out the relation between what I was feeling physically and the detected level. Not too scientific, but probably as good as the saliva test.) I just ordered more and will be trying it again. (I'm sorry to hear it didn't work for you.) I was combining it with melatonin before, but I think melatonin may have gone paradoxical on me, so I've stopped taking it. I am still taking chromium picolinate as I read two or three studies showed it helped lower cortisol (most of these studies are done for exercise science as people who work out too much have elevated cortisol). I think what helps most is the magnesium chloride I take (about 1000mg total a day, most of it at night... I take chloride instead of citrate because it's what I can get most easily... I get crystals that I dissolve in water, and somehow I feel it works much better than when I was taking magnesium citrate as a capsule). The other thing that really clearly helps with my morning anxiety is walking/light jogging. If I don't do it, I pay for it dearly. For the headaches and dizziness... water may sometimes help. But mostly just waiting it out. I have to say this is the area I've had most improvement in... I hardly EVER am dizzy or feel things moving anymore!! And the sickly feeling and/or headaches are much, MUCH less frequent than they used to be. Now if only I could shake the depression and finish battling the anxiety and early waking! *One of my questions is that he suggests it's important to lower Omega 6s, and yet cites a study that DHA is much better absorbed with a high fat meal, specifically with olive oil (then again, looking at his chart, olive oil has less Omega 6s than most vegetable oils). '94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever. 1/13 Best I've ever felt. 3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows. 4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time. Link to comment
spectio Posted December 22, 2011 Author Share Posted December 22, 2011 Hello, my good friend, I'm sorry you're going through a rough patch. I know how disappointing and insurmountable it seems when you have to visit the dark days over and over. Nadia, I'm wondering if you're going through a reversal of the days that brought you to be on an ad in the first place. I mean, you've weathered the initial storm of wd symptoms, like the anxiety, the dizzyness, the sickishness, and now you're dealing with purely psychological issues. I keep looking for some sort of pattern in my own recovery. Right now, I have it all, but it's only been 3 and a half months. Your wd is a lot longer so maybe you're going through another window where your receptors are trying to come back on line and they are kind of misfiring and not quite working in unison. I hope you will not beat yourself up over not feeling good because I don't think you can do anything about it. These may be good days to really take care of yourself. Don't try to do too much. Lower your expectations until you do feel better. And you will! Thank you so much for reading over my posts and giving me your advise and knowledge. That also means the world to me. I still think you are a spectacular success story, Nadia, and I always will! Keep in touch! I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
spectio Posted December 22, 2011 Author Share Posted December 22, 2011 Hi friends, any thoughts on influenza vaccinations for us brain trama victims. Is there the possibility of more paradoxical reactions from the vaccine. I'm thinking I might pass this year especially after reading somewhere the efficacy rate can be as low os 25% anyway. I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted December 23, 2011 Administrator Share Posted December 23, 2011 I've never had any problems from a flu shot. Personally, I think the benefits outweigh the risks. I haven't had the flu for years. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Nadia Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Hello, my good friend, I'm sorry you're going through a rough patch. I know how disappointing and insurmountable it seems when you have to visit the dark days over and over. Nadia, I'm wondering if you're going through a reversal of the days that brought you to be on an ad in the first place. I mean, you've weathered the initial storm of wd symptoms, like the anxiety, the dizzyness, the sickishness, and now you're dealing with purely psychological issues. I keep looking for some sort of pattern in my own recovery. Right now, I have it all, but it's only been 3 and a half months. Your wd is a lot longer so maybe you're going through another window where your receptors are trying to come back on line and they are kind of misfiring and not quite working in unison. I hope you will not beat yourself up over not feeling good because I don't think you can do anything about it. These may be good days to really take care of yourself. Don't try to do too much. Lower your expectations until you do feel better. And you will! Thank you so much for reading over my posts and giving me your advise and knowledge. That also means the world to me. I still think you are a spectacular success story, Nadia, and I always will! Keep in touch! Thank you for your kind words, Spectio. I do think that what I am going through now is partially my regular old tendency toward depression. But I think my brain is still compensating from 16 years of AD use as well. I think that because of the anxiety, changed sleep patterns and high cortisol. I never had generalized anxiety before ADs. And though my physical symptoms are greatly improved, there are still some things that come back now and then that make me think it's, as you describe, my brain getting back in order. For example, weird back pain (more than pain, even, it's a discomfort with an ache, like I have to move around), smells being exaggerated, and sensations staying with me way longer than they should. Feeling feverish without a fever occasionally. I think all of it is related to the cortisol, but of course I'm only guessing. I could also be having hormonal changes, as I'm 41 and early menopause runs in the family. Still, it IS encouraging that the physical symptoms have lessened. I hope it's indication I'm on the way out with that. I'm sure I'll have to manage depression for the rest of my life, but I'll take whatever improvement I can get! One thing I'm afraid of is that somehow once your nervous system has gone the path of anxiety, it will fall in that ditch at any opportunity again. What led you to start taking Remeron in the first place, by the way? I wish you quick healing! '94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever. 1/13 Best I've ever felt. 3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows. 4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time. Link to comment
Nadia Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Hi friends, any thoughts on influenza vaccinations for us brain trama victims. Is there the possibility of more paradoxical reactions from the vaccine. I'm thinking I might pass this year especially after reading somewhere the efficacy rate can be as low os 25% anyway. Well, one plus to having high cortisol is it ups your immune system. I'm surrounded by people with the flu, but have not gotten sick at all since going through withdrawal, ha ha... But seriously, I think it's probably best to stay away from anything that puts a stress on your system. I had a really bad reaction to an anti-amoebe medication, for example. It's what escalated my symptoms. '94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever. 1/13 Best I've ever felt. 3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows. 4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted December 23, 2011 Administrator Share Posted December 23, 2011 I agree, Nadia, I've hardly had a cold since I've had withdrawal syndrome. Kind of a plus, I guess. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
fefesmom Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 Hello, my good friend, I'm sorry you're going through a rough patch. I know how disappointing and insurmountable it seems when you have to visit the dark days over and over. Nadia, I'm wondering if you're going through a reversal of the days that brought you to be on an ad in the first place. I mean, you've weathered the initial storm of wd symptoms, like the anxiety, the dizzyness, the sickishness, and now you're dealing with purely psychological issues. I keep looking for some sort of pattern in my own recovery. Right now, I have it all, but it's only been 3 and a half months. Your wd is a lot longer so maybe you're going through another window where your receptors are trying to come back on line and they are kind of misfiring and not quite working in unison. I hope you will not beat yourself up over not feeling good because I don't think you can do anything about it. These may be good days to really take care of yourself. Don't try to do too much. Lower your expectations until you do feel better. And you will! Thank you so much for reading over my posts and giving me your advise and knowledge. That also means the world to me. I still think you are a spectacular success story, Nadia, and I always will! Keep in touch! Link to comment
fefesmom Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 I hope it is okay to write about my situation here. I have gotten over the physical symptoms of effexor withdrawal and now am dealing with what seems to be depression but I hope is withdrawal in another form. Also, the fact that this is the holiday season, never a good time for me, makes everything worse. I have been sad, weepy, feel like withdrawing from people, and feel hopeless often. Exercise (walking) (which I have done for years) seems to help but I find meditation, which I usually do, just makes my ruminating worse. I am so afraid I will have to go back on the effexor and I don't want to. Not sure why but it is a strong aversion I have. The psychiatrist I "see" is useless; my therapist is on vacation for another week. I really cannot talk to anyone I know about the depression but have been able to talk with my sister. Maybe I could talk with friends about it, now that I think about it. I am 11 weeks off effexor which I did, mistakenly in hindsight, cold turkey. Any ideas of how to tough out this depression/withdrawal? Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted December 26, 2011 Administrator Share Posted December 26, 2011 fefe, I'm a big fan of "changing the channel" when you feel down. If you can't focus enough in meditation, try something else. There are sites with free online CBT lessons, for example. We all need a toolbox of ways to deal with the bad times. When one thing does'nt work, try something else. Maybe even more walking -- just around the block can help when a black hole opens up. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
fefesmom Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 HI. interesting timing of your suggestion to change the channel. I was thinking that watching commercial tv is not good for me -- the commercials can take me down very negative thought-paths - so I had decided to severely decrease my watching of it. So your suggestion to change the channel is great and I will go to your post about it. Many thanks. I am making up my tool box and I like that idea too. Link to comment
Barbarannamated Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 So interesting about commercials ~Ive been especially annoyed and angered by them recently I think I'm having a midlife crisis wrapped up with withdrawal • I have always been able to be genuinely happy for my friends accomplishments ~ career /kids /grandkids ~ but feeling a severe lack of all of the above and hate the jealousy and comparisons I've been drawing lately ~ sometimes triggered by TV commercials I cannot participate in Facebook anymore for the same reason Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment
spectio Posted December 27, 2011 Author Share Posted December 27, 2011 Re your thoughts about commercials: I'm having a tough time watching most all tv right now. It all sounds so meaningless. I kind of crave good progra ms with some sort of positive message or nature programs. Having a particularly hard time with politics. It's all so phony! Maybe this all fits in with our sensitive nervous systems. How about the ad commercials? Am I the only one seeing red when a cyballta (fill in the blank for whatever psych poison is advertised) commercial comes on? Silence is a good thing right now! I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted December 27, 2011 Administrator Share Posted December 27, 2011 I mute the sound when I see a drug ad. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Barbarannamated Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Drug ads send me thru the roof now ~ and the ones using real docs and showing their names --OMG--i would never go to a doc who did that No prescribing bias there --WOW That should be career suicide Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment
Nadia Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 So interesting about commercials ~Ive been especially annoyed and angered by them recently I think I'm having a midlife crisis wrapped up with withdrawal • I have always been able to be genuinely happy for my friends accomplishments ~ career /kids /grandkids ~ but feeling a severe lack of all of the above and hate the jealousy and comparisons I've been drawing lately ~ sometimes triggered by TV commercials I cannot participate in Facebook anymore for the same reason I was just thinking about this today! I remember years ago a good friend was going through a mid-life crisis (she was ten years older than me), and also on the AD rollercoaster. She was obsessed with googling people from her past and feeling envious of them. I just didn't get it. Now, -I- am going through a midlife crisis and coming off ADs, and I have to fight ALL DAY against feeling envy and regret. I can't stand Facebook for the same reason (thankfully I don't watch TV). Everyone seems so happy and I start feeling like I'm the only failure... and it has to do with those things: career, kids, relationships. Of course, intellectually I know everyone makes their own life, and that the grass is always greener on the other side, but it's interesting that my tendency now is to feel envy and regret. I was NOT an envious person at all before. Now I am steeped in it. It's strange. '94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever. 1/13 Best I've ever felt. 3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows. 4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time. Link to comment
Nadia Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Re your thoughts about commercials: I'm having a tough time watching most all tv right now. It all sounds so meaningless. I kind of crave good progra ms with some sort of positive message or nature programs. Having a particularly hard time with politics. It's all so phony! Maybe this all fits in with our sensitive nervous systems. How about the ad commercials? Am I the only one seeing red when a cyballta (fill in the blank for whatever psych poison is advertised) commercial comes on? Silence is a good thing right now! I feel the same way... I have a hard time with a lot of stuff. Either because of the intense emotions, or the phoniness, or the violence, or whatever. At the same time, I crave stuff to watch... something soothing but not dumb. In the Off topic category there's a thread about movies and I just started one asking about books. I think there are may be some children's books that might be good to read. At the peak of my bad symptoms, I started reading my National Geographic books about animals from when I was a kid in the 70s. That was about all I could handle. Last night I started reading Diary of a Wimpy Kid and it's pretty light and smart and funny at the same time. '94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever. 1/13 Best I've ever felt. 3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows. 4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time. Link to comment
Barbarannamated Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 There's actually quite a bit of research looking at this exact thing ~i believe it's referred to as 'social comparison theory' and the related 'Facebook depression' • more often studied in teens but I saw it first in a friend who spied on her first love's wife until she blocked her out • I'm not trying to justify my feelings but a little comforting to know I'm not a complete freak • I recognized myself going down that road last spring (coincidentally right when I was tapering) and got away from it The reactions have astounded me ~the few times I checked back in for a few minutes I immediately got messages like 'Barb~youre back' as if I didn't exist if my light wasn't on • And then there were several messages to the effect of 'if you're on FB get in touch' Ooookay so if I'm NOT on FB I shouldn't get in touch Hmmm A few friends use FB exclusively for messages ~they don't even check regular email anymore • it's all too Big Brother and encourages a false relationship based on whatever face people choose to present even to closest friends Cyberpsychology is fascinating • Twitter is much less offensive to me as it doesn't encourage the whole false image that FB does Sorry for the rant ~it's good to talk with someone who understands • I suspect we aren't so unusual and I feel sad for the people who don't recognize the downside of the whole game I think it's great for reconnecting with people or meeting new people but the ones who post every little detail of their day from what kind of coffee to what time they cleaned their bathrooms to saying goodnite every nite ---that's warped IMO "I don't Facebook „therefore I am not" Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment
fefesmom Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 It's so good and reassuring to read all your posts about tv commercials etc. Makes me feel so connected and less alone - also good to know I can write what I mean and be accepted. Whew. I don't read about politics anymore either and I have stopped watching MSNBC and even PBS news. I haven't been able to read much recently and I usually am reading something all the time. Kids' books sound like a good idea. I will go to the library tomorrow! Yes, I hate the ad ads on tv too. All those smiling people don't know what they are in for. I went to a website mentioned here I think - beyond meds - and was amazed at the number of books about ads and their negative impact. I belong to an *** and guess they use ads so much because they are cost effective for the ***. I am breathing easier now that Christmas and the day after are gone for another year. Next year I plan to have a better strategy for dealing with the holidays even if only to anticipate how difficult they are. I actually start downhill a week or so before Thanksgiving and don't surface again until about Dec. 27. Onward! Thanks, as always, for being there, all of you. Link to comment
fefesmom Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 P.S. I would never go on face book and risk being unfriended - nope, don't need that. Link to comment
Barbarannamated Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Fefe~ I am wiped out from yesterday and I didn't do a thing Christmas and I have a bad history that goes a long way back with family of origin I swear every year that I'm going to find a better way to handle it and have tried getting involved with charities etc but this one was bad And TV …every channel bombards with Christmas everything from November on and my DVD player wasn't working I feel disoriented today b/c I was so miserable yesterday trying to dodge family drama from 3000 miles away • it's bad being from a small town ~ everyone knows everything and believes they have every right to know others business Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment
Barbarannamated Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 P.S. I would never go on face book and risk being unfriended - nope, don't need that. Very wise Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment
spectio Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 Okay, everyone, I need your feedback on this. When I had a session with my acupuncturist a couple of weeks ago, I decided I would have him test my cortisol levels, mainly just for the confirmation I did have elevated cortisol. Well, the results all came back lower than normal. All four samples were low, not high, even the morning cortisol. I havn't had a chance to discuss these results with him yet but I am really confused. I would assume with adrenal fatigue, I would have Fatigue, but I don't! That's probably the one thing I don't get. I' d like to get some discussion going here before I talk to him. He's going to want me to try pregnenelone or dhea or something and I need to think rationally about this before I start something, which I absolutely won't until I hear some logic to point me In this direction. Alto, what do yo think of the low cortisol? I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
fefesmom Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Hi. I am totally ignorant about cortisol, cortisol levels etc. However, I do believe strongly that taking more medications/supplements if you don't know what they are supposed to do and/or what the side effects may be would be a big mistake. I wish I were more knowledgeable and could help you in this situation. At any rate, here are my two cents. Hope others have more information you can use to make your decision. Link to comment
Barbarannamated Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Spectio~ I've tried to get answers from endocrinologists on similar questions to no avail • not one has been able to tell me what tests would be valid and not show a positive result when it is actually due to ADs and may be transient • my endocrinologist (who trust very much as a diagnostician) believes I have Panhypopitiutary ~ essentially my whole system is shutting down ~ but couldn't say if the test results would show primary endocrine probs • I talked to several endocrine docs at Mayo Clinic and several university programs and none had any idea • I got so frustrated and overwhelmed that I gave up My doc told me that I'd have to be treated with Premarin/testosterone /steroids etc for the rest of my life and I'm sure you undrrstand how that didn't set well with me • I will ask if a scan would show a pituitary tumor which ~it seems~ would indicate there actually is something going on rather than trying to interpret transient lab values I look forward to others' input The labwork my doc ordered was $2000+ and the lab could not give me an answer as to whether my insurance would cover some of the exotic tests he ordered • I just haven't had the energy to pursue it Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment
Barbarannamated Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 My doc did say I wasn't showing classic signs of Parkinsons yet although my husband is Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment
Nadia Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Okay, everyone, I need your feedback on this. When I had a session with my acupuncturist a couple of weeks ago, I decided I would have him test my cortisol levels, mainly just for the confirmation I did have elevated cortisol. Well, the results all came back lower than normal. All four samples were low, not high, even the morning cortisol. I havn't had a chance to discuss these results with him yet but I am really confused. I would assume with adrenal fatigue, I would have Fatigue, but I don't! That's probably the one thing I don't get. I' d like to get some discussion going here before I talk to him. He's going to want me to try pregnenelone or dhea or something and I need to think rationally about this before I start something, which I absolutely won't until I hear some logic to point me In this direction. Alto, what do yo think of the low cortisol? What test did he use and at what time? Do you have anxiety and trouble sleeping, or are you doing OK with that? Have you gotten other type of bloodwork done and a general checkup? '94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever. 1/13 Best I've ever felt. 3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows. 4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time. Link to comment
spectio Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 I did the saliva test. One sample at 7:00' one at 11:00, one at 4:00and the last one at 10:00. I had blood work done back in the spring . The only thing off was slightly elevated cholesterol, elevated blood sugar, and low sodium. I was still on 45 mg of remeron then so I think the elevations were due to that. I have not had further blood work since. I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
spectio Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 Oh, I think I'm sleeping pretty good. I do wake up early most nights but I get 5 to 6 hours every night, sometimes 7. Still have very powerful nervousness In the morning and a low level throughout . the day. I am rarely fatigued. I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted December 29, 2011 Administrator Share Posted December 29, 2011 spectio, I wouldn't put any stock in that cortisol test. The only one that's worth anything is the 24-hour urine test. Endocrinologists have ways to rule out tumor to explain elevated results, if any. It is unlikely you have a tumor. One can have subclinical cortisol elevation -- surges of cortisol -- that will not show up even in the urine test. If you are having symptoms of anxiety, it is unlikely you have adrenal fatigue. Adrenal fatigue, which is rare, also leads to extreme fatigue, a symptom you don't have. Please don't take anything to mess with your adrenals, including adrenal tonics. Avoid licorice, which is often in these preparations. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
spectio Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 Thanks everybody, for your input. I'm having a discussion with the acupuncturist this p.m. I'm going to ask him how many patients he's treated on ad withdrawal, again. ( I already asked him during our session and he said no then). Then I'm going to ask him if these results are valid for a person in withdrawal. It'll bee interesting to hear his reply. No, alto, I don't believe going down the hormonal manipulation road is a good idea. Thanks all! I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now