AntiDFree: Prozac and Klonazepam free with intense WD at 15 months

[AntiDFree]

Until recently I have had a several month break from any intense withdrawals and swings. I have changed residence and started a new business that is functioning at a satisfactory level for now. 

 

I started a 50% taper of mirtazapine 3 months ago. I will likely drop it completely in another month. I have expected this to be the easiest one to get off because it is not an SSRI although it does affect the brain directly from what I have read. I really don't know just how much it has affected me, and how intense withdrawals may become. I have even read that it is nothing more than an antihistamine. Nevertheless, it was prescribed as an anti anxiety drug for me. It is also prescribed as a sleep aid. It has midly sedative side affects for me at this current taper dose 22.5mg. I sleep well without it also. I remember experiencing visual hallucinations after taking it at bedtime some ten years ago. I would have the hallucinations only when I closed my eyes to go to sleep. They were movies of people doing things and I was the watcher. The scene would be very detailed and would change every few seconds just before I could ascertain what it was about. Were they really hallucinations or just my mind creating a movie and then changing the scene repeatedly? Don't know. They stopped after a year or so. Doesn't matter now.

 

The last three days have been a distinct dip below normal functioning. I had to stop trying to do anything except what I felt like doing. A low level depression set in with some mild to moderate mood swings and unexplained uncomfortable surges of sensations through the body that prompted crying and cringing.

 

In comparison to the prozac withdrawals, these are rather mild. With the sensations come the thoughts that they could become as severe as the three month period when intense somatic surges of rawness and crying were continuous. I find myself facing the same challenge as before: to avoid feeding into the story that my mind begins to spin and efforting to be present in the moment where I find relief from ruminations. The little "self hater" loves to rear his head at times like this.

 

you may ask, why I don't do a slower taper in an attempt to stave off withdrawal symptoms (?) My answer is that I expect to have feelings and sensations arise that have been masked by the drugs. I don't feel that these are distinct or separate from withdrawal symptoms, and the effort to manage withdrawal symptoms can be as stressful, if not more, than going through the withdrawals directly and encouraging the sensations to pass through to completion. I believe there inevitably has to be some discomfort which is part of the healing (withdrawal IS recovery). To go through an elaborate taper regime in order to avoid "any"  or only mild withdrawals is understandable when there are demands to function at a high level. I guess that statement is debatable.

 

I'll close that paragraph by saying that I have a deep history of trauma experiences going back to early childhood, and with those have been strong emotional charges that have been released. I'm thankful that they have cleared and dissipated.

 

I'm fortunate to be single and without a relationship that can place stress on the situation. No matter how this last leg (drug) plays out, I will try to rest in "awareness" as often as possible in order to allow everything to pass through.

Peace...

 

Mark 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2017 by ChessieCat
added white space

[Madeleine]

Are you going to drop from 50 percent to nothing. If so Seems like a big drop! 

[AntiDFree]

Yes, I will probably drop from 50 to zero. It might be a big drop. I'll find out. Thank you for your comment.

Mark

[nz11]

Hi Mark

Havent read your whole thread just this page and your drug sig.

Firstly well done on getting free from prozac and clonazepam.

I will probably drop from 50 to zero. It might be a big drop. I'll find out.

If i were you i would not do this.

Why not taper as per sa reccomendations ie 10% per month.

The 'discomfort' may be at a level that is way beyond manageable and unprecedented.

 

I have changed residence and started a new business that is functioning at a satisfactory level for now. 

You may be putting this current  functioning at a satisfactory level at serious risk.

nz11

[ChessieCat]

It sounds like you are already experiencing withdrawal symptoms:

 

I started a 50% taper of mirtazapine 3 months ago.

 

And then you state:

 

"The last three days have been a distinct dip below normal functioning. I had to stop trying to do anything except what I felt like doing. A low level depression set in with some mild to moderate mood swings and unexplained uncomfortable surges of sensations through the body that prompted crying and cringing. "

 

I would take this as the sign that it is time to slow down.  If you keep going as you are planning you could possibly end up in a worse state than you are at the moment.  I would be holding until things stabilise again (possibly 3-4 months or even more) and then reduce by no more than 10% monthly.

 

If the withdrawal symptoms become unbearable you might want to consider doing a small updose.  Your signature doesn't state your doses and dates.  Please update these so we can see them at a glance.  Once we know your current dose we can suggest an updose amount.  

 

tips-for-tapering-off-mirtazapine-remeron

[AntiDFree]

10 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

It sounds like you are already experiencing withdrawal symptoms:

 

I started a 50% taper of mirtazapine 3 months ago.

 

And then you state:

 

"The last three days have been a distinct dip below normal functioning. I had to stop trying to do anything except what I felt like doing. A low level depression set in with some mild to moderate mood swings and unexplained uncomfortable surges of sensations through the body that prompted crying and cringing. "

 

I would take this as the sign that it is time to slow down.  If you keep going as you are planning you could possibly end up in a worse state than you are at the moment.  I would be holding until things stabilise again (possibly 3-4 months or even more) and then reduce by no more than 10% monthly.

 

If the withdrawal symptoms become unbearable you might want to consider doing a small updose.  Your signature doesn't state your doses and dates.  Please update these so we can see them at a glance.  Once we know your current dose we can suggest an updose amount.  

 

tips-for-tapering-off-mirtazapine-remeron

Thank you for suggestions and concern for my well being.

Peace,

 

Mark

 

[Altostrata]

Hello, AntiD.

 

3 hours ago, AntiDFree said:

Interesting responses concerning the scientific details of mirtazapine. Regarding Henosis's comment about his friend; my experience tapering mirtazapine has been similar.

I will be initiating my final taper today and expect it to be as my last one. I will drop from 11mg to 5.5mg for 6 days, then drop to zero immediately. The last 50% taper from 22.5mg to 11mg happened 3 months ago (I was originally on 45mg). 2 weeks of WD with emotional surges and frequent crying jags that tapered off to zero over about 6 weeks.  I expect the same experiences this time. I'm not working and I walk about 8 to 10 miles a day. This will help move things along. You may ask: why not do a slower taper and avoid the strong emotional reactions? Answer: I have lots of stored trauma energies from early life that have been masked and suppressed by the anti-D's. That is an unavoidable phenomenon, and I have learned to welcome the emotional reactions without resistance, so they move through fairly fast without suffering, leaving ever more clarity. A necessary evil/blessing.

Whether mirtazapine is an SSRI or other does not matter to me. My subjective experience with it's use, and now non use is what guides my tapering choices. 

Also, the WD symptoms I have now are nothing compared to what I had coming off Prozac.

Best of luck to all!

 

Quite often, you can get away with a big cut at the beginning because your original dosage is an oversaturation, see Why taper? SERT transporter occupancy studies show importance of gradual change in plasma concentration

 

After that, continuing to make big decreases is not a good idea, you start to slide down that SERT curve; your theory that you will suffer only a couple of weeks of withdrawal may be incorrect.  Not only might you surface stored trauma, you might trigger withdrawal reactions you cannot even imagine now. I can guarantee you that you will not like rebound insomnia, which can last months, one bit. Surges of anxiety? Internal shaking? You will learn nothing from it except you have the capacity to be foolish.

 

And we may not be able to get Humpty Dumpty back on the wall.

 

Also read Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)

 

I'm cautioning you now because, should you run into trouble after dramatic decreasess, you will need to take responsibility for it. We may not be able to help.

 

Good luck with whatever plan you choose. Please let us know how you're doing.

 

 

[AntiDFree]

Suppose someone is having the same experience with tapering from Mirtazapine as I am, and finds it helpful in finishing their taper the same way I am under the same circumstances. So it breaks from the prescribed protocol...Does that make it entirely wrong?

I understand your concern, but your "reaction" seems entirely fear inducing to others,  not to mention judgmental and antagonistic. I have a sense for what I can tolerate and my choice to go the way I am going. And I am not perfect nor stupid- as you suggest.

Given the wording in the private email you sent me, and your feelings of being personally offended, I protest that. I'm a big boy, and taking responsibility to get off this poison is my choice. If you don't think people can draw their own intelligent conclusions from my taper history or learn anything from me, which IMO isn't that bad, then do whatever you think is right, but stop harassing me.

[withhopeinmyheart]

Hello Mark, 

 

be sure that Altostrata is always only concerned about our well being. 

 

Experience has shown that there's just too much suffering from quick tapering. 

You simply CAN'T know if you're gonna be one of the lucky ones where it works. 

 

Of course it is still your decision in the end. 

[AntiDFree]

Thank you!!

[Altostrata]

AntiDFree, if you think you can do it better, by all means start your own Web site counseling people about how to go off psychiatric drugs. You can give them all the information you want.

 

You probably don't realize it, but nobody needs to be reminded they can always try to go off drugs a lot faster. It's not a sophisticated, adult insight. That's how so many gravely injured people ended up here. And then we do our (unpaid, volunteer) best to help them out.

 

You may or may not become one of them from tapering mirtazapine too fast. I can't tell the future, maybe you can.

 

I've expended entirely too much effort attempting to talk you out of this. Good luck.

[JanCarol]

I have one thing to add - there is a Delayed Onset of Withdrawal Symptoms when you do precipitous drops.

 

We've seen it happen time and again (and again).  In fact, it is more common than not.

Cold Turkey and Fast Tapers

and

It Doesn't End at "0"

 

as written by BrassMonkey explain how, months out, all of a sudden - a stressor (or maybe no stressor at all - just the natural time of adjustment for your neurotransmitters) will throw you headlong into a wave, which your doctor will be happy to diagnose as a "relapse" and redrug you.  

 

So many times, someone thinks they got away, when the delayed reaction kicks in.  We have quite a few people trying to post "Success stories" when they are 6 weeks - 6 months off the drugs - and - well, it often doesn't turn out well.  This isn't scare tactics - it's realism.  It's an understanding of how your neurotransmitters have to rebuild, reform, and rewire after the assault of the drugs.  Each adjustment takes 3 weeks (that's why we recommend a month in between tapers), and there are about 200 cascades which could be affected - including sleep, gut, histamine, mood, cognitive, perceptual, muscular, nerves, cardiovascular, etc.  These drugs don't hit just one receptor in your brain, they affect the entire body.

 

So - okay - taper as fast as you want.  I hope it works for you.  In my years as a mod at SA, (my profession used to be accounting, statistics and estimates) - depending on age of drugging, how long the drugging took place - perhaps 30-40% of first year users can get away without going totally haywire.  That number decreases with time of use.  This is a rough estimate - nobody really knows.  

 

 

(sorry, I'm not calling *you* a punk, that's just the meme), and in a lighter vein:

 

 

Please, do let us know how this goes - and that includes 6-10 months from now.  I'd love to hear that you walked away and escaped.  This is a clear case where the moderators would love to be wrong.

 

[AntiDFree]

18 hours ago, JanCarol said:

 

Please, do let us know how this goes - and that includes 6-10 months from now.  I'd love to hear that you walked away and escaped.  This is a clear case where the moderators would love to be wrong.

I won't be checking back in. I'll be fine finishing on my own.

I don't care if you are right or wrong, and I don't care if I'm right or wrong.

The moderators only want to flex there ego muscles and prove they are right. **** that.

I just want off your FU forum and there's no option in the user CP to delete my account. So I'm asking here, like I did in the other post, to please delete my account:

I have nothing more to share here that won't be met with your bullsh*t arguments and stupid fear-based ******* cartoons if it doesn't coincide exactly with what you promote here. 

So do it now and make another example of me which is all you want to do anyway; You have your own agenda here, and I don't fit it.

 

[withhopeinmyheart]

No matter what you believe, this is just rude and hurtful! 

 

Do you know suffering? Suffering! Never lessening, never giving you a break. Mentally and physically! This huge amount of members here know what I'm talking about. 

 

Agenda? Everybody here in this forum works, unpaid, in their free time, often suffering themselves, to help get us all through! 

 

This is hell and I really hope you won't end up there, too! 

[AntiDFree]

Good luck to you. I'm not hurting anyone. I already know the hell you speak of, and no matter how much it hurts,  it's not worth wining about. Shut-up. Embrace the pain, own it, deal with it, and keep going through it. Then live your life. Or not.

I won't be responding to anymore posts on this thread or any other. I'm done here!