Crocus -- weaning from Effexor XR

[Altostrata]

Yes, Karen, we'd love to hear more about you!

 

Crocus is taking the extended-release Effexor XR. It can't be compounded, the little granules in the capsule each have their own extended-release coating.

 

Counting out the granules is just about the only way to taper off Effexor XR.

[Crocus]

Well, what a trip the last few weeks have been.

 

Thank you Karen for your message and in solidarity - you bet! I will look for more from you as I get my strength back.

 

I have spent the last three weeks roughly having nausea so extreme that I thought I was going to end up in the hospital. I thought it was food poisoning or viral, but I had not hardly kept anything down and it became compounded by being depressed and despairing.

 

I had done a reduction on the effexor when this started and so I put that back to where it was but without being able to know how much of the Effexor dose I was even keeping down the whole thing became unmanageable.

 

I ended up going to a pdoc appt. today (scheduled some months ago) as I have a free one each year. We spent over an hour discussing my situation, but he was very congruent in his thought that the extreme nausea was in his words "from the Effexor tapering" and to him a side effect.

 

So, my thought process at this time is to fight "fire with fire" and so I am going to take a low dose of Prozac as he believes this will reduce the tapering side effects and help enable me to continue on a slow taper. I have read quite a bit about this and at this point I do not feel I have a lot to lose in trying this approach.

 

He would also like me to add a small dose of Wellbutrin in 10 days, but the jury is still out for me on this part of the plan. He said that he felt I was also having depression symptoms and that wellbutrin had helped me through this time of year in the past which is true. I have found Wellbutrin to be pretty benign as meds go. I just want to see how I feel when I have had a few days on the Prozac.

 

The doctor is spot on about me and this time of year. I may find that in the future I need to fortify myself nutritionally or in some other way since it seems to overwhelm me with personal history of the less-than-happy-happy-joy-joy variety.

 

So, that's my plan.

 

I have missed everyone here and look forward to getting caught back up over the next few days.

 

And Alto - I did see the David Healey article - what great timing that was for me. I am going to send a copy of it to this Dr. So good to know that Dr. Healey has looked at what else might enable us to completely taper without so much damn suffering.

 

more soon,

 

Crocus

[Altostrata]

Crocus, are you off Effexor completely?

 

So, effectively, you've switched to Prozac? What's the dose?

 

If I were you, I would not add Wellbutrin. What is it going to do for you the Prozac isn't? And, my take is your "depression" is from withdrawal. Wellbutrin won't do a thing for that except add more stress to your system. It's a noradrenergic -- it's stimulating. Insomnia and palpitations are common side effects.

 

Do you feel down this time of year? Maybe light therapy would help.

[Barbarannamated]

I'm in Scrooge mode too

[Crocus]

Hi Alto;

 

No, I am still on 86 beads of Effexor (staying down now) and the Dr. wants me to use the 10 mg Prozac to lessen the withdrawal side effects as I continue to wean at a slow pace.

 

I am not keen on adding any Wellbutrin and am taking the Prozac with caution.

 

I have read quite a bit about this method and if it works that'd sure be great. At least Prozac has a long half life and is not tough to get off of, so though it is really a tough choice the other option was to go back up on Effexor and I think this is a better choice.

 

You are so right - I need a light box desparately, but my finances won't accomodate that right now. I bundle up and stand outside - ha! Next year I hope to be better prepared for the Oct - Jan season.

[Altostrata]

Okay, effectively you're doing the cross-taper with Prozac.

 

The method I've heard is you take the Prozac and Effexor together for maybe 4 days, then drop the Effexor.

[Crocus]

Yes, that is the "original" cross-taper method to take Prozac for 4 days and then drop the Effexor, but the doctor and I finally agreed on somewhere around 6 months as a target. I do not think it makes sense for me to go as quickly as they used to think could be done.

 

I must say, I am shocked that my [Kaiser] doc is so on top of weaning and he had a lot of information and was quite familiar with Bob Whitakers books and many others. I have since spoken to two nurses there and they also seemed to have a lot of information about withdrawal syndrome. I was not expecting this at all. One of the nurses had actually had to do a taper herself and she was very vocal about how it is difficult but that if we take it slow I can come out of this drug free.

 

So, yay! that some professionals out there are getting familiar and becoming sensitive to the nightmare we deal with.

 

BTW, I do feel better today and had no barfing this a.m. probably by partly the Prozac dose and also changing my Effexor beads from 3 to 4 times daily with one dose upon rising with the Prozac.

 

Oofta! One day at a damn time for certain.

[Shanti]

So Crocus, you're going to stay on 10 mg of Prozac for the entire time you taper off of Effexor? Six months? Then taper off the Prozac? Just today I added 5 mg of Prozac and will increase to 10 mg in about a week. From there, I'm still not quite sure what I'll do. If I'll just quickly drop off the Paxil or not. Kind of a scary thought!

[Altostrata]

Good to hear you're doing better, Crocus.

 

I don't think I would take Effexor, or any other antidepressant, concurrently for long with Prozac. As I understand it, your brain just doesn't need that much serotonergic stimulation.

 

Crocus, if you can recommend these doctors for tapering, please add to Recommended doctors, therapists, or clinics.

 

Interesting that the nurse has had her own experience with withdrawal.

 

Were you taking the Effexor beads several times a day? They're timed-release, you don't need to do that.

[Crocus]

So Crocus, you're going to stay on 10 mg of Prozac for the entire time you taper off of Effexor? Six months? Then taper off the Prozac? Just today I added 5 mg of Prozac and will increase to 10 mg in about a week. From there, I'm still not quite sure what I'll do. If I'll just quickly drop off the Paxil or not. Kind of a scary thought!

 

 

Hi Shanti;

 

Well, I am going to have to take this one step at a time. Much depends on how I feel and if the Prozac does help the withdrawal. I hope that the Prozac gives you some relief as well, but I would hope you would slowly tape the Paxil.

 

I hope the cross taper may offer some help to those of us who cannot function as we get down to the small amounts of tapering, but don't think it makes a case for hurrying.

 

My best to you! Crocus

[Shanti]

 

So Crocus, you're going to stay on 10 mg of Prozac for the entire time you taper off of Effexor? Six months? Then taper off the Prozac? Just today I added 5 mg of Prozac and will increase to 10 mg in about a week. From there, I'm still not quite sure what I'll do. If I'll just quickly drop off the Paxil or not. Kind of a scary thought!

 

 

Hi Shanti;

 

Well, I am going to have to take this one step at a time. Much depends on how I feel and if the Prozac does help the withdrawal. I hope that the Prozac gives you some relief as well, but I would hope you would slowly tape the Paxil.

 

I hope the cross taper may offer some help to those of us who cannot function as we get down to the small amounts of tapering, but don't think it makes a case for hurrying.

 

My best to you! Crocus

 

Yeah, I'm going to take it one step at a time too. I will not get in a hurry to taper off the Paxil. But I won't go too slow, as I feel that drug is pure evil and I want it far from me. I feel the Prozac is less evil. I hope this cross taper helps too! We'll be a couple more testimonies to it if it does.

[Crocus]

Hi everyone;

 

Well here is my latest:

 

I did go ahead and do what the pdoc suggested. I do my homework I assure you, but I have been weaning from Effexor since last February and at times it has been hell. This last reduction triggered nausea and vomiting and after 3 1/2 weeks of that I was in a state of total despair as well. The doc thinks the illness was withdrawal syndrome and that my despair is from my seasonal problem with depression. I cannot dispute this, in fact there is situational depression as well given that my husband and I cannot find jobs and do not know how we will keep our house - that is depressing.

 

At any rate, I had been using 3 separate doses of Effexor beads daily. (yes I know it has a coating but so does the original cap it comes in. Ever throw one in your sink and see how many days before it dissolves?) At any rate, this was suggested some time ago and worked for me.

 

I did add the 10 mg. Prozac and still had some nausea but in talking with a nurse who had gotten off Effexor herself, she wondered if I should not divide my beads into 4 doses and take one the minute I got up with the Prozac. So I did.

 

The nausea has stopped now. Can I say with 100% certainty that it is the changes I made? no, but I believe it did.

 

As for despair, I had reached a limit with pure suffering - I have taken the Wellbutrin and it has helped (albeit the old dry mouth stuff) me to feel part of the world again.

 

So, in my mind I have not gone over to the dark side here, but perhaps I have found a way to fight fire with fire and that taking the other 2 meds will enable me to get off the Effexor. Perhaps I should have been tapered in a different way from the original "cocktail" when a non-profit had me get rid of what was easy first then do Effexor tapering last.

 

So, I hope others here will learn from this. I may be sorry, but today I feel okay and like I can keep going. The doc wanted me to taper by 4 beads every 5 days but we agreed on 3 beads every 7 days. I pray that this works as I do not know what else to do at this time. I am not concerned about getting off of Prozac or Wellbutrin.

 

So, any questions I am game.

 

Shanti, I hope you are doing well with the Prozac you are taking. It seems that tapering makes us so sensitive to meds and supplements and - ugh, it makes it a whole different undertaking to use them again.

[InNeedOfHope]

Hope this works for you. I am always interested in those weaning from Effexor as I think it similar to Cymbalta, short half life, two transmitters etc. When did you decide to take the beads at various times of the day? Did you notice a big change doing this. You are right in that it does indeed feel like the dark side. I am not brave enough to try Prozac given my reaction to all medicines and even supplements, but I hope it does work for you.

 

How is your sleep? I have found sleep crucial for me in suriving, if only for the fact there are less hours to be consious for the pain. My sleep has improved a bit, not fantastic but better than even a couple of weeks ago. I am glad that your sickness has improved, perhaps this is a sign this will work now for you. You seem a very positive person, which is half the battle, I am trying in that area. I think sometimes we are just looking for a glimmer of hope; for a sign it can be done, which can then see us through the down times.

[Barbarannamated]

Hi everyone;

 

Well here is my latest:

 

I did go ahead and do what the pdoc suggested. I do my homework I assure you, but I have been weaning from Effexor since last February and at times it has been hell. This last reduction triggered nausea and vomiting and after 3 1/2 weeks of that I was in a state of total despair as well. The doc thinks the illness was withdrawal syndrome and that my despair is from my seasonal problem with depression. I cannot dispute this, in fact there is situational depression as well given that my husband and I cannot find jobs and do not know how we will keep our house - that is depressing.

So, in my mind I have not gone over to the dark side here, but perhaps I have found a way to fight fire with fire and that taking the other 2 meds will enable me to get off the Effexor. Perhaps I should have been tapered in a different way from the original "cocktail" when a non-profit had me get rid of what was easy first then do Effexor tapering last.

So, I hope others here will learn from this. I may be sorry, but today I feel okay and like I can keep going. The doc wanted me to taper by 4 beads every 5 days but we agreed on 3 beads every 7 days. I pray that this works as I do not know what else to do at this time. I am not concerned about getting off of Prozac or Wellbutrin.

So, any questions I am game.

 

Crocus,

I'm so glad you found a formula that's helping! Your description of how you feel w/Wellbutrin is exactly how I feel w/Vyvanse. It doesn't speed my up or give me energy, but seems to lift the cloud of dread enough to get me out of bed. I haven't had any for over a week and I'm doing ok, which is a relief. Frankly, I'm a tad more comfortable with immediate-acting meds at this point. I have Dexedrine, but that does nothing for me even though it's just a lysine ring(?) short of Vyvanse. I've tried taking OTC lysine + dex to no avail (a long shot, I know).

My husband went to school w/a psychopharmacologist (who, incidentally, is cited in Peter Breggin's work). I'm hoping to find out why there is such a difference.

 

I'm sorry to hear of your job situation. So sorry. We lost a house a few years ago. I know how stressful that is. Ironically, both of our credit scores are higher than ever. Go figure!

When do you think you may start with Dr. Foster? His website ROCKS! So well done....beautiful. Love the videos. Can we clone him, pleeease?

[Barbarannamated]

Crocus,

When I was in Nashville, I met with an MSW who works for the state and heads up the Certified Peer Specialists in a large part of TN (several different agencies that employ them). It was a very interesting meeting. She is clearly anti DSM ("'normal' is a setting on the dryer, not a label for people") and the traditional MH system. Tennessee has a large network and several organized programs w/places for people to go for support while avoiding hospitals and meds. I can get her info for you.

Many CPSs seem to be 'dissident' (stealing that word from Bruce Levine, PhD). I'm curious about anyone else's thoughts on the Peer Specialist network.

[Altostrata]

Bar, please add that information to Recommended doctors, therapists, or clinics, too!

[Crocus]

Hope this works for you. I am always interested in those weaning from Effexor as I think it similar to Cymbalta, short half life, two transmitters etc. When did you decide to take the beads at various times of the day? Did you notice a big change doing this. You are right in that it does indeed feel like the dark side. I am not brave enough to try Prozac given my reaction to all medicines and even supplements, but I hope it does work for you.

 

How is your sleep? I have found sleep crucial for me in suriving, if only for the fact there are less hours to be consious for the pain. My sleep has improved a bit, not fantastic but better than even a couple of weeks ago. I am glad that your sickness has improved, perhaps this is a sign this will work now for you. You seem a very positive person, which is half the battle, I am trying in that area. I think sometimes we are just looking for a glimmer of hope; for a sign it can be done, which can then see us through the down times.

 

InNeed;

 

Sorry for taking so long to respond. I was given a recommendation to take the beads in separate increments back when I was down to 53 mg. For me that 53 mg point was a tough one. I began taking some a night as it made the a.m. withdrawal anxiety lessen. So this was back in May, and since when I have had a tough time a.m. or p.m. I try to adjust the increments. It is a pain to count out beads this much and I may try going down to less doses, but I know that taking just 10 beads in the p.m. really lessened my anxiety in the a.m. Weird, this drug.

 

Thank you so much for your support and caring - it means a lot. Crocus

[Crocus]

 

Hi everyone;

 

Well here is my latest:

 

I did go ahead and do what the pdoc suggested. I do my homework I assure you, but I have been weaning from Effexor since last February and at times it has been hell. This last reduction triggered nausea and vomiting and after 3 1/2 weeks of that I was in a state of total despair as well. The doc thinks the illness was withdrawal syndrome and that my despair is from my seasonal problem with depression. I cannot dispute this, in fact there is situational depression as well given that my husband and I cannot find jobs and do not know how we will keep our house - that is depressing.

So, in my mind I have not gone over to the dark side here, but perhaps I have found a way to fight fire with fire and that taking the other 2 meds will enable me to get off the Effexor. Perhaps I should have been tapered in a different way from the original "cocktail" when a non-profit had me get rid of what was easy first then do Effexor tapering last.

So, I hope others here will learn from this. I may be sorry, but today I feel okay and like I can keep going. The doc wanted me to taper by 4 beads every 5 days but we agreed on 3 beads every 7 days. I pray that this works as I do not know what else to do at this time. I am not concerned about getting off of Prozac or Wellbutrin.

So, any questions I am game.

 

Crocus,

I'm so glad you found a formula that's helping! Your description of how you feel w/Wellbutrin is exactly how I feel w/Vyvanse. It doesn't speed my up or give me energy, but seems to lift the cloud of dread enough to get me out of bed. I haven't had any for over a week and I'm doing ok, which is a relief. Frankly, I'm a tad more comfortable with immediate-acting meds at this point. I have Dexedrine, but that does nothing for me even though it's just a lysine ring(?) short of Vyvanse. I've tried taking OTC lysine + dex to no avail (a long shot, I know).

My husband went to school w/a psychopharmacologist (who, incidentally, is cited in Peter Breggin's work). I'm hoping to find out why there is such a difference.

 

I'm sorry to hear of your job situation. So sorry. We lost a house a few years ago. I know how stressful that is. Ironically, both of our credit scores are higher than ever. Go figure!

When do you think you may start with Dr. Foster? His website ROCKS! So well done....beautiful. Love the videos. Can we clone him, pleeease?

 

Hi Barb;

 

Yes, there are a few docs I'd like to clone....many more I would like to see sterilized I appreciate the feedback on your having one of the drugs be pretty "side effect free" for you. The Wellbutrin is helping me back out of this despair. Amazing how hard it is to remember that it does not last forever - sure feels like it when I am going through it.

 

Thank you for your continued suppport - I sure appreciate it. Crocus

[Crocus]

Well, here is the latest;

 

I got to the point of feeling okay and so did a 2 bead reduction. Yesterday was day 7. I woke up nauseated and could not keep anything down for much of the day. I did add the 2 beads back in when I realized what was up, and I think that helped me to recover as today I feel okay again.

 

So, e-mailed the Dr to see what his thoughts are on this. I am very disappointed. I do think I will share David Healy's article with him.

 

I do try to remember that 51 mg. was like this- I could not reduce and that now I am at 31.5 so I have to remember that I have navigated my way through these tough times.

 

My best to everyone and I am glad to be "back".

[Altostrata]

Welcome back, Crocus!

[Karma]

Hi Crocus

 

I'm new here - I am also tapering down on Effexor, but I use the immediate release tablets. I got down to 18.75 mg total and had to go back up to 43.75 mg. This is the first time tapering that I've had the dread and anxiety. Well, I've had anxiety from tapering too quickly, but not with the dread component - I don't like that one bit. I'm being assailed by irrational fears - it needs to stop because I have things to do.

 

Is the prozac helping with the taper?

 

I live in the Denver area and am very interested in the idea of a support group in the area.

 

"I have to remember that I have navigated my way through these tough times," this comment was very helpful to me tonight

 

All my best to you,

Karma

[InNeedOfHope]

.

 

I do try to remember that 51 mg. was like this- I could not reduce and that now I am at 31.5 so I have to remember that I have navigated my way through these tough times.

 

 

You say you could not reduce at 51mg. I am interested as to what changed. Did you just keep going? Or did things get better? I am stuck at 18.5mmg of Cymbalta. I don't feel as if I am improving if anything,just this last week I feel worse than ever and don't know how I will ever be able to come down. I have no intention of reducing before Christmas, but then, well, I don't know. I am pretty much confined to the sofa and any attempt to get going again costs me dearly in pain. I feel useless and a burden. Most days I just don't want to be here anymore, because I can just see years and years of this ahead of me and don't even know if a full recovery is even possible. Sorry to hijack your thread, I just wondered what changed at 51mg. Hope you are ok.

[Crocus]

 

 

You say you could not reduce at 51mg. I am interested as to what changed. Did you just keep going? Or did things get better? I am stuck at 18.5mmg of Cymbalta. I don't feel as if I am improving if anything,just this last week I feel worse than ever and don't know how I will ever be able to come down. I have no intention of reducing before Christmas, but then, well, I don't know. I am pretty much confined to the sofa and any attempt to get going again costs me dearly in pain. I feel useless and a burden. Most days I just don't want to be here anymore, because I can just see years and years of this ahead of me and don't even know if a full recovery is even possible. Sorry to hijack your thread, I just wondered what changed at 51mg. Hope you are ok.

 

InNeed;

 

No worries about any hijacking - I am glad to hear more of what you are going through. I feel like my best friend is my sofa at times and can really relate to feeling "useless and a burden". THIS TAPERING nightmare just happens to be our jobs right now and that is what I try to remember when I feel that way. You have a more-than-full-time job in doing this and it takes everything you have at times.

 

 

I do not know a lot about Cymbalta except it seems to give people as much trouble as Effexor. I did feel "stuck" at 51 mg. I remember thinking I wonder if I will ever get to take just the one (37.5 mg ) capsule. It seemed impossible. What I did back then is to slow down reducing - a lot. I also divided the beads to take a few in the p.m. to get away from the a.m. withdrawal symptoms - though I am not recommending that.

 

I do think that you will get past the 18.5 of Cymbalta. I think it is wise not to do any reduction during Christmas - it certainly makes sense to me. Stressors can really upset my system easily.

 

I will sure let you know what the pdoc says. He has not been in and I hope to hear from him today. Today I feel good so the good news is that I am getting better at identifying what is going on and it only takes a small adjustment to get back on track.

 

We can get through this. Crocus