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Dealing With Emotional Spirals


brassmonkey

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And another piece of the puzzle falls into place.  "Love" is listed as one of the things we can spiral around.  I feel so much better reading that as I have for the most part felt like I have a crush on an authority figure in my life that there is no way it could ever go the way my mind keeps trying to portray it to me.  I understand I don't feel towards him in a romantic way yet love the guy intensely.  It has made no sense to me so I keep thinking about it and questioning it.  I see him on an almost daily basis so that makes it hard but keep telling myself that I am not, nor will I ever be on his radar.  I thank God for that but it hasn't made the feelings go away either so I just do my best at my work and try to enjoy the fact that I am feeling the emotion of love at all.  I just would like it to be a little less intense.  

 

I will keep plugging away here as I am learning so much!

Been on antidepressants for at least 25 years.  Various kinds, various stops and starts.  Ended Effexor in the fall of 2018, it was a 2 1/2 year long withdrawal diligently planned and slowly executed.   I ended  Mirtazapine December of 2018.  I took that for sleep in very small dose and underestimated the impact of the withdrawal.  Such a tiny dose, 1/4 of a 7.5 mg pill every night for years.  Not enough due diligence and while I tapered, it did not taper slow enough or long enough.  I have been off for almost a year now the the symptoms of withdrawal linger on.

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I looked up anger spirals to see if there was anything in the forums about controlling them because I'm living in a halfway house at the moment and one of the women in my unit keeps stealing my food and I was again trying so hard not to go psycho hulk at her tonight because that will lead to violence and lead to me losing a place to live right now so it is so important that I manage my anger and this forum was soooo helpful. I can't believe how accurate just everything you explained was. It's soooo amazing to have someone able to explain this symptom (and others) of ADWD and tell me exactly how I can manage and defuse it. THANK YOU

1 year on citalopram (20mg)

1 year on sertraline (200mg)

8 years on venlafaxine (225mg then 300mg in later years)

A few months on quetiapine and another few months on risperidone. 

2019-present meds - buproprion 300mg + fluoxetine 10mg + pipamperone 40mg (European antipsychotic) + opipramol  50mg (European anxiolytic/AD) 

Down to 20mg Pipamperone and 25mg Opipramol now. 

 

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Add on to the emotional spiral on "love".  The intense feelings I was having for this person in my life have finally abated.  Thank God!  Still not totally normal but getting closer.  I can finally believe it will be okay.

Been on antidepressants for at least 25 years.  Various kinds, various stops and starts.  Ended Effexor in the fall of 2018, it was a 2 1/2 year long withdrawal diligently planned and slowly executed.   I ended  Mirtazapine December of 2018.  I took that for sleep in very small dose and underestimated the impact of the withdrawal.  Such a tiny dose, 1/4 of a 7.5 mg pill every night for years.  Not enough due diligence and while I tapered, it did not taper slow enough or long enough.  I have been off for almost a year now the the symptoms of withdrawal linger on.

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Hi Brassmonkey et al,

as i withdraw from the last of the lithium i am reminded of how i felt at the worst of effexor withdrawal.  I have these rage attacks and get so upset amd angry about things that don’t normally bother me.  It’s almost like i am looking for a reason to hsve one of these episodes.  I hate them amd they take so long to recover after my flight or fight response is activated so I don’t know why i let myself chase after something that could be upsetting.  So frustrating.  Any advice?

with thanks,

help

May 12th 2016 took last bead of effexor. 8 month taper.  Bridge = prozac 5mg, 300mg Lithium

May 31st took last of prozac. Lithium 300 mg, estrogen patch 150, magnesium.

June 14th reinstated 1mg Prozac due to intolerable emotional distress. Cont with lithium 300mg, 150 magnesium, re added omega 3, cont estrogen patch. June 15-july 5th had marked improvement of emotional wd symptoms, likely due to the reinstatement. July 5th intense emotional symptoms returned.

July 15 decreased 50 mg of lithium to see if it improved low heart rate.

July 19th - increased prozac to 1.5mg.

July 22 marked improvement of emotional symptoms...again, likely due to increase of prozac. However sudden agitation developed so decreased back down to 1.25mg prozac. Realizing increasing dose is dangerous because of these adverse effects and also seeing that wave is inevitable regardless of reinstatement.

Continuing 250 lithium, 1.25mg prozac, estrogen.

Oct 31st - continued 250 lithium, 1 mg prozac, estrogen patch.

Jan 2018  - off of prozac (bridge) as of Dec 2017.  Starting to taper Lithium 250 mg.  Will do 10% per month. 

May 2018 - lithium 115mg.  Still having waves but they aren’t as bad.  However, I really struggle with emotional symptoms about 1 week after a cut.  Even this past micro taper of 1.5% was tough.  That was after holding for a month.

dec 2018- 80mg lithium.  Tapering 1 mg per week since last June.  Symptoms improving overall but still very sensitive to light, sound, social stimulation and I cry a lot.

March 2019 - 65 mg lithium.  Still tapering 1mg per week.  

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2 years into this nightmare and I just blew another fuse as I’ll call this. In front of some really “special” visitors. Basically more family. It’s always a warning: I make any kind of “Commotion” in front of these people, my immediate family gets extremely angry at me even if it’s so much as a minor complaint or even an annoyance. So I keep quiet when they are around. Never had any problem with that. 

 

This time around, I tried but I couldn’t help it. The visitors (Basically inlaws)  were saying things about me that really pissed me off. Not nice things. Overheard it from the other room as I was trying to stay out of the way. I was angry about what they were saying but I kept to myself and blew it off successfully. 

 

Unfortunately, I then went and found one of them took something special of mine (A bottle of water that they don’t make anymore, go figure) and I exploded and screamed at the top of my lungs in anguish right out in front of these very special people that I’m not allowed to offend. My skin was on fire. I was flushing everywhere. The light in the room became extremely bright. My perception of the room got disoriented. My mother told me repeatedly to “GET OUT OF HERE!” in a way nobody ever told be before. 

 

I was doing so well. So well. Now I have to deal with everybody not wanting me around all over again. I guess I need to now figure out how to deal with two triggers in a row. It’s usually been just one. Also need to remember not to let my guard down. Just because I think this has gone away because it’s been a long time doesn’t mean it has. 

Prozac (2007-2008), Zoloft (2009-2017) Paxil (2017-2018), Celexa (2018), Luvox (2018-Current) Average 50-200. Nothing as of January 2019

Lorazepam 2007-Current 2MG 3 times a day

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@brassmonkey, can you explain more about this

 

One common form of Emotional Spiral experienced during ADWD is often referred to as the “Doom Cloud” Starting with some neuroemotions of fear that escalate through The Spiral ending not in an explosion, but rather in a deep black depression or dread, that is very difficult to break out of.  This can be a hard one to work with because of the neuroemotional trigger, but it can be minimized with the same techniques.

 

I havent experienced yet. Is it common? How does someone work through this

LZie, Zoloft 25 mg, 3/31-4/6, 

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brassmonkey

This is not reported all that much, but we have had several members go through it.  I did to an extent, but mine wasn't as dark as some people experience. It is pretty much described by it's name.  It is an intense, in some cases all consuming dread that the world is totally negative, everything is bad/wrong, there is nothing I can do about it and I'm being sucked into the abyss. The thing is there is nothing real about it, it is all controlled by neuroemotions.  There may be some outside influences, such as the current world situation, but they get so over blown and all consuming that a person can't see a way out. One interesting thing is that frequently there is little suicidal ideation involved, but there can be very unsettling violent thoughts that come up.

 

Getting through it can be very tough.  It requires a lot faith in one's underlying beliefs in their personal worth and a lot of AAF (Acknowledge, Accept, Float). I found it required a lot of interspection and self analysis to make sense of the thoughts. It ended up with the statement "where did that thought come from, I'd never do anything like that". In this manner it is possible to slowly work through things and allow the spiral to run it's course.  Like the rest of ADWD, it will demenish (spell checker is acting up again) and  resolve over time.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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@brassmonkey, if I may be honest, the neuroemotions seem to freak me out more than anything else. I am a mom of 5 kids. I don't want to frighten them or do something to hurt their heart or mind

Like the suicidal ideation. I have never had thoughts of suicide..the fact that it comes with this is hard for me. Dark depression...all of that. Your thread was very helpful. Is there anyway someone can feel it coming on? Any other techniques or habits that help? Like exercise or distraction. I know it passes when it comes but it's probably the most troubling aspect that I might have to face. 

 

So this isn't something that being patient when angry can help? 

LZie, Zoloft 25 mg, 3/31-4/6, 

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@brassmonkey, I have been working with @Altostrata and she has been great and has handled so many of my questions. I do have one for you though, I am mostly getting mild to moderate symptoms overall... With moments I would say would characterize as severe... Does that get worse or do things naturally move up slowly... like is regression possible? Also what characterizes something as severe? Thanks 

LZie, Zoloft 25 mg, 3/31-4/6, 

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@brassmonkey i think i had neuto anger/rage for the first time today. It literally came out of nowhere...I got angry for no reason, my face even flushed. I had to change the channel and go on with life. but it was a battle and it came on so quickly. Is it always that quick? I saw that you said "dont go there", breathed and walk away. I reminded myself it was a neuro emotion...it was weird because I got this headache at the same time. how long does it take to really kinda master that one? I am hoping I wont feel that often...does it also come in waves?

 

any other ways you can think that would help me with this? thanks. I am still feeling like it...like it hasnt completely gone. is that normal?

 

 

LZie, Zoloft 25 mg, 3/31-4/6, 

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brassmonkey

Hi Lz-- scary stuff when it happens out of the blue.  It use to really freak me out until i figured out that most of the time I could see it coming and was able to take action to make it easier. The neuroanger is caused by a build up of tension in the body (hence the headache) and a chemical component similar to crying. I would start to notice a change in my body a couple of days before things exploded.  The changes were quite subtle but after a while were fairly easy to spot. It was a combination of a slight headache, brain fog, irritability and muscle tension.  This would start a spiral of small unsettling thoughts that would build over several hours or days until some minor, unrelated thing would set off the explosion.

 

When I would sense the build up starting I would do everything possible to disarm it, changing thought patterns, confronting the thoughts as they appeared and being super careful around situations that could trigger things. That's where the "just walk away" really came into play. Some times the explosion had to happen to relieve the tension, so I would try to do it in a "safe" manner such as "alone yelling and screaming at the moon". It reminds me of the scene under the train bridge from "Cabaret".  Other times I could let it dissipate over several hours.  Either way there would be "hangover" that lasted doe a couple of days.  It is a very intense thing to go through and the o'l bod needed time to recover.

 

I found that the outbursts happened on a fairly regular schedule of about two and a half to three months. Sometimes there were small events mixed in along the way. However, I always ended up feeling better once it was over, so I really believe that it is related to healing.  Sort of a cathartic release of unneeded tension.

 

So carefully watch for build up and triggers, don't OCD it, but rather pay attention to things. Pre-plan how to handle different situations and when you see them developing put those plans into action. I always found it was much easier to apologize for being rude than having to do damage control for being angry. Also remember that in the eyes of society the angry/violent person is always viewed as being in the wrong, no matter how right it seems to them at the time.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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@brassmonkey, it's interesting that you said it's cathartic... I have the best cathartic crying right now

 

Do you think mine will always present with a headache. The headache was piercing and my skin turned hot. I had to go outside and do something to get the energy out. I want to be able to stay ahead of the neuroanger so I don't do something stupid. It was really fierce. 

 

Do you think working out would help lessen the tension?

 

Btw, I've had the awful panic attacks you mention all day long. Driving me crazy. I did deep breathing. They just keep on coming. Anyway to stop them. How would I use your trigger program with this? I don't understand that one exactly. And the insomnia spirals. Both issues I am dealing with

 

This has been so helpful already. Thx

LZie, Zoloft 25 mg, 3/31-4/6, 

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brassmonkey

The headache and hot skin sound more like an offshoot of the panic attacks then from the anger. There is a huge amount of bodily tension involved with those that can affect a person in ways that they don't expect.  Now that you've been through several of the panic attacks you should be realizing that they do end at some point and because you've made it through these you should know that you will make it through any others that come along.  When you start to feel one building stop everything, close your eyes and force yourself to relax, take some deep breaths and say something like "here we go again, let's just get it over with" with practice I was able to stop them with "I don't have time for this now". Be sure to use the same phrase each time, don't fight it, but rather accept that it is happening, let the symptoms flow over you and off into space. Let yourself feel the relief when ever they drop in intensity. What you are doing is training your body to react to the panic with relaxation instead of with more panic and the phrase will help trigger that response with practice.  One interesting note is that the bodily feelings of panic are identical to those of excitement which can be used to your advantage.

 

I would be careful with using exercise to blow off the tension.  Getting outside, taking a walk, gardening, enjoying nature are all good, any form of grounding. Cardio, power lifting and the like can trigger other symptoms during ADWD so we don't recommend them. It can work well one or two times, but almost every member who has tried always ends up with more problems, insomnia and disrupted sleep being a major ones.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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getofflex
On 5/2/2020 at 12:03 AM, brassmonkey said:

 

I would be careful with using exercise to blow off the tension.  Getting outside, taking a walk, gardening, enjoying nature are all good, any form of grounding. Cardio, power lifting and the like can trigger other symptoms during ADWD so we don't recommend them. It can work well one or two times, but almost every member who has tried always ends up with more problems, insomnia and disrupted sleep being a major ones.

I had no idea.  I'm really glad to hear this.  I was wondering why at times the day after exercising more than usual I felt so bad.  Thank you!  Jennifer

***Please note this is not medical advice.  Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a doctor who understands psych meds and how to withdraw from them, if you can find one.

Lexapro   Started Apr 15 02 - 10 mg;  Apr 2 20  0.18 mg; Jul 16  0.17 mg, Aug 23  0.16 mg, Oct 7  0.15 mg, Nov 8 - 0.14, Jan 16 '21 - 0.13, Feb 7 - 0.12, Feb 22 - 0.11, Mar 26 - 0.10 

Trazodone.  used 50 mg once every 4-7 days for sleep, stopped

Xanax. used 0.5 mg once every 4-7 days for sleep, stopped

Benadryl 50 mg, Ibuprofen 800 mg, or Tylenol 1000 mg

other meds: Levothyroxine 75 mg

suppl AM: fish oil, flax oil, multivitamin, vit C, vit E, calcium

suppl PM: magnesium 350 mg, GABA 750 mg, Estroven, melatonin 3 mg, calcium

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baquejohn
On 5/2/2020 at 1:03 AM, brassmonkey said:

 

 

Prozac january 2010 to  october 2016 dose started at 10mg and went up to 80mg

welbutrin october 2014 to october 2016 dose up to 400mg

effexor october 2015 to march 2016 150mg

geodon january 2016 to july 2016 80mg

i did a rapid taper off everything in 8 months time span from march 2016 to october 2016

drug free for 2 years and 7 months

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persistente
On 4/26/2020 at 9:51 PM, brassmonkey said:

This is not reported all that much, but we have had several members go through it.  I did to an extent, but mine wasn't as dark as some people experience. It is pretty much described by it's name.  It is an intense, in some cases all consuming dread that the world is totally negative, everything is bad/wrong, there is nothing I can do about it and I'm being sucked into the abyss. The thing is there is nothing real about it, it is all controlled by neuroemotions.  There may be some outside influences, such as the current world situation, but they get so over blown and all consuming that a person can't see a way out. One interesting thing is that frequently there is little suicidal ideation involved, but there can be very unsettling violent thoughts that come up.

 

Getting through it can be very tough.  It requires a lot faith in one's underlying beliefs in their personal worth and a lot of AAF (Acknowledge, Accept, Float). I found it required a lot of interspection and self analysis to make sense of the thoughts. It ended up with the statement "where did that thought come from, I'd never do anything like that". In this manner it is possible to slowly work through things and allow the spiral to run it's course.  Like the rest of ADWD, it will demenish (spell checker is acting up again) and  resolve over time.

i do not know is this something what happens to me in my waves. it describes very well what i feel at those horrible days or weeks but it is more about how i perceive myself and not the world.

my fear that i will not be able to take care of myself if something happens to my parents has its reasons. i have physical disability (problems with balance and coordination). however, i could probably continue life on my own with some adjustments even if there were no my parents and my disability would not stop me from living and fighting to recover as much as possible. adwd on the other hand probably would stop me since in my waves i can not eat, think, move...

 

reading about neuroemotions and triggers it ocured to me that my fear of future causes the waves of complete depression, adhedonia and no motivation to do absolutely anything. it completly takes over me and i only sit and wait in agony while my parent keep me alive. of course, since they keep me alive in those days, my fear that i could not live without them looks so realistic and my circle of negative spirals starts.

 

am i getting this right?

3/2012 - sertralin 50 mg, no major side effects

1/2014 - ct sertralin 50 mg (tappered 3 weeks as doctor ordered)

7/2014 - back to sertalin 50 mg, no issues

4/2016 - ct sertralin 50 mg (tappered 3 weeks, my decision)

12/2016 - back to sertalin, major side effects from the first pill and the begginning of hell

2/2017 - mirtazepine 15 mg added for insomnia

6/2017 - stopped sertralin (2 months tapper)

9/2017 - stopped mirtazepine (3 weeks taper)

waves and windows

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brassmonkey

Your descriptions sound just like what I was talking about, both the doom cloud and spiral thinking. Now that you have identified that thinking about certain things can trigger the spiral of thoughts you can learn to control it. Work on breaking out of the spiral when you notice it starting to happen. Carefully start making plans on how to take back control of your life and become less dependent on others. Work on the plans rationally and in small bits so as to not trip off the spiral. If you notice some subject that will trip off a spiral, carefully explore it and try to work out some solutions.

 

Qi Gong exercises can really help with balance and coordination problems, there are many good videos on line.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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persistente

thank you for all your suggestions. there is so much work to be done and not so much strength left to me but i hope to be able to work on this. you are full of wisdom and although it is sometimes very hard to accept all you say, work and the help you have done here at SA is amazing.

3/2012 - sertralin 50 mg, no major side effects

1/2014 - ct sertralin 50 mg (tappered 3 weeks as doctor ordered)

7/2014 - back to sertalin 50 mg, no issues

4/2016 - ct sertralin 50 mg (tappered 3 weeks, my decision)

12/2016 - back to sertalin, major side effects from the first pill and the begginning of hell

2/2017 - mirtazepine 15 mg added for insomnia

6/2017 - stopped sertralin (2 months tapper)

9/2017 - stopped mirtazepine (3 weeks taper)

waves and windows

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  • 4 weeks later...
LiferButOK
Quote
On 11/15/2016 at 8:29 PM, brassmonkey said:

I frequently use a stern "don't go there" close my eyes, take a deep breath and concentrate on what I was originally doing.   

 

I like this. Thank-you, Brass Monkey.

1990 -  1996 Buspar for anx/depression.  (Previous tries with some others).

1996 BEGAN EFFEXOR for anxiety, depression, painful bladder spasms.

2006 breast cancer treatment year, including chemo.  I’m still here 🌾🌞 

2007, 2008, 2016 3x tried synthroid, Tirosint for low thyroid. Leg cramps +, foul mood.

2008-2011 Catapres 0.2mg clonidine patch for BP + anx added to Effexor; had to discontinue for possibility it was harming my memory (at work).

2013 Got retired early due to memory failures and mood control breakdown.

Dec2018 tried Mirtazapine 15mg to boost mood; it zonked me + my muscles!

Apr2020 tried Abilify 2mg with my 150 Effexor. BAD cardiac effect in 11days.

May 2020 direct switch from 150mg Effexor XR to 50mg Pristiq. AWASH in 4d.

23May2020 BACK again to just 150mg Effexor XR brand (now on it for 24yrs).

Other:  Krill oil, vit D drops, infreq 100%B vit.  Hibiscus or ginger/turmeric, or dandelion root teas seem helpful.  Believe in Source.  Starting MgCl2 in aloe w some glycerin as skin lotion.  Minimal coffee.  Trying to put play before work.  

 

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  • 2 months later...

Just came here to read this again. They have been back again after being gone for quite some time. 

Prozac (2007-2008), Zoloft (2009-2017) Paxil (2017-2018), Celexa (2018), Luvox (2018-Current) Average 50-200. Nothing as of January 2019

Lorazepam 2007-Current 2MG 3 times a day

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  • 2 weeks later...

I wish I'd read this 2 weeks ago. I have been going downhill for a few months now. I even told a few people I wasn't feeling the best. Normally I can hold it together, and not let on I'm dying inside. But I let something boil up at work. A colleague reported me. I am not long in the job, and am worried ill be let go. I am upset at myself, but also my colleague. 

Sertraline 50mg  May 2020 3 days, got severe tinnitus, then quit. Tinnitus ongoing 30 days later. 

Sertraline 50mg Oct 2019 2 weeks, piling on weight, then quit. 

Cipramil 2002 - 2008, OK on them, decided to stop myself. Went a bit loopy. Did some regrettable things. 

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Dealing with emotionnal spirals is a large part of my journey.

With time, I've noticed that in order to be able to not dive into it, I need to use several steps. 

Thought I could share these steps with you and hope it might help some folks ☺

These steps take practice but I found that the more I use them the more they come automatically.

These steps won't erase symptoms, but they might help to live with them and to create new mind-habits (and we love neuroplasticity ;) ).

 

 

Let's use anxiety symptoms as an example :

 

Step 1 : Aknowledge anxiety 

instead of panicking like " oh no, what's happening again" / " I'm feeling strange, something is really wrong" ...

I try to simply recognize symptoms without judgments :

"Ok, it seems that I'm feeling anxiety symptoms".

It can help to recognize it 'physically' :

" I'm feeling a bit dizzy, and my belly is heavy".

 

Step 2 : Give yourself permission to feel these symptoms. It is ok to have these feelings, this anxiety.

"These symptoms are normal, my brain is working to heal"

"These symptoms are ok, they mean my body is still working"

"These symptoms are normal, I'm in a place full of people and I don't like that"

....

 

Step 3 : Breath I take some deep belly breaths.

 

Step 4 : Use a kind internal dialogue :

Instead of sentences like :

" I'm such a failure" / "I'll never feel better"...

I use sentences like :

"Wow, you're very strong" / "Im proud of myself for keeping on trying" / "Thank you my brain for working hard to heal " / " well, this hour might be uncomfortable, it's ok, I know I'm strong enough"

....

(Some people use "I" to talk to themselves, others use "you". Personnaly I let my brain choose and it can vary 😄).

 

Step 5 : Try to make fun of the situation.

This one is particularly tricky, but I find that if I can find something funny in the situation it helps my mind to not catastrophize.

 

Step 6 : Change the channel-move now it's time to focus on something else, if you can : go for a walk, cook, do a puzzle, sing,....

 

☀️

 

(Had issues to find the right English words to write this post, hope you can get the general idea)

Edited by Erell
English corrections

2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper

2018 to August 2019 : Paroxetine 20mg taper (3% every 15 days).

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg)

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

April 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details topic/21457-

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

 

Current medication :  7mg Fluoxetine (since 20 Aug 2020)

+ 1mg Diazepam (since 29 Aug 2020)

(Toothpick Paroxetine from September 2020 to 17th March 2021)

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@Erell I just read through all of this and found t very helpful. I think you're such a strong person and have become such a warrior on this journey. Here's something i've been during bad spells of symptoms. I set my timer for ten minutes and close my eyes and focus on m breath. I also keep meditation music playing in the background. I focus on very simple phrases such as, "your brain is amazing, it is always working to heal".

 

 

2008: start Lexapro 10 mg which is quickly upped to 20 mg. 2008:2013 try at least four individual times to get off Lexapro, never get lower than 5mg, settle at 15 mg. 2015: again, attempt to get off Lexapro and get to 5 mg. After 6 months, feel i'm stabilizing but go back on a higher dose because of one stressful event. 2016: go to 20 mg from 15 mg due to work stresses, hit severe tolerance for the first time and become very suicidal. 2016-2017: try viibryd and cymbata in an attempt to feel better. Also add Lamictal 150 at some point. 2017: eventually land on paxil 37.5 and Lamictal 150. January 2018: cut paxil to 25. April-July 2018: reduce Lamictal in 50 mg increments till im off August. 2018: reduce paxil to 20 mg. december 2018: dropped Paxil to 18 mg, SEVERE CRASH. March updosed to 20 mg April 11: dropped to 19.4 mg due to akathsia (still experiencing akathsia symptoms from updose) April 20: 19 mg Paxil May 4: 18.7 Paxil July 5: 18.2 July 12: 17.8 Aug 19: 17.5 Aug 26: 17.3 Oct 20: 17.1 Nov 3: 16.9, 8/17/20: 16.6 after nine month hold, 8/24/20: 16.4, 8/31/20:16.2, 9/14/2020: 16.0, 9/21/20: 15.8, 9/28/20: 15.6, 10/19/20:15.4, 10/26/20: 15.2, 11/2/20: 15.1, 11/7/20: 14.8, 3/6/2-: 14.5, 3/20/20: 14.3, 4/3/20: 13.9, 4/10/2021: 13.7. 4/21/21: 13.5, 5/5/2021: 13.1

 

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2 hours ago, Adili13 said:

@Erell I just read through all of this and found t very helpful. I think you're such a strong person and have become such a warrior on this journey. Here's something i've been during bad spells of symptoms. I set my timer for ten minutes and close my eyes and focus on m breath. I also keep meditation music playing in the background. I focus on very simple phrases such as, "your brain is amazing, it is always working to heal".

 

 

 

 

1994 began Paxil 20. Jan2018-began taper @ 2.5 mg every 6 wks. 10mg Paxil on May 12/2018

May 2019 - 9.75 mg Paxil; July 12/19 9.5 mg

July 20/19 -9.75 mg

Aug  12/19 10 mg Paxil 10 mg Prozac, “Prozac bridge” ;Vit D 1000iu 6 per day, magnesium bis-glycinate 200mgx3, Omega 3 600mg x3, gaba 600mgx2, Inositol powder

Meditation, tapping, breathing and grounding, tai chi, yoga, art

Aug 21 dropped Prozac; increase Paxil to 15mg

March 8/2021. Reinstated to 20 mg Paxil

 

 

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Thank you for your words. Our brains are amazing and they are healing 

 

1994 began Paxil 20. Jan2018-began taper @ 2.5 mg every 6 wks. 10mg Paxil on May 12/2018

May 2019 - 9.75 mg Paxil; July 12/19 9.5 mg

July 20/19 -9.75 mg

Aug  12/19 10 mg Paxil 10 mg Prozac, “Prozac bridge” ;Vit D 1000iu 6 per day, magnesium bis-glycinate 200mgx3, Omega 3 600mg x3, gaba 600mgx2, Inositol powder

Meditation, tapping, breathing and grounding, tai chi, yoga, art

Aug 21 dropped Prozac; increase Paxil to 15mg

March 8/2021. Reinstated to 20 mg Paxil

 

 

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  • 5 months later...

I used to do this, did it for years, walking away, changing chanel. Kept finding people excuses, I can find a damn excuse for anything someone does, beside me of course:)). As @Barbarannamated said, therapist told me to react, that people are abusing me. Internalizing it is what made me sick, one day I snapped. How is this "walking away" done? for me it;s just taking it all in.  How can I leave it all out?

JUNE 2019 Tried Coaxil ,wellbutrin, cipralex, mirtazapine, effexor, sertraline, benzoS for 5 months.November 2019 started prozac 30 mg, took till May 2020 and started tapering 5 mg at a time till reached 2.5mg once every 2 3 days.January 2020 stopped benzos (tapered for 2 months).27 December 2020 stopped Prozac, 2 bad weeks.January and  february was feeling well.I am taking 2 mg of lorazepam /year.Tried 5Htp 100mg Febr 2020 for a copule of days, vomited non stop. Stopped right away.No supplements, possibly allergic to excipients now. 30 mg of Ulipristil acetate on 25th of febr.

Reinstated 0.4 mg of prozac 12 march  , had 0.2mg 13 march. Stopped reinstatement, feeling better. 

 

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brassmonkey

The "walking away" that I'm talking about in this article is the physical act of leaving the area where the trigger is taking place.  It is better to "walk away" from the situation, leave the room, then to allow it to escalate into something that is out of control. Once a person is away from the situation they can allow themselves to "cool off", take some deep breaths and let the tension/anger dissipate. It is a way to defuse a bad situation that could become much worse. As I pointed out, the person who is openly angry is always considered to be in the wrong no matter how provoked they were.

 

Once a person has "cooled down" they can take the time to revisit the situation in a more unbias manner and work out just what it was about the situation that caused the problem. More often than not it is their reaction to the triggering event that is causing the problem. Yes, the other guy started it and wouldn't let up, but that is their problem. You are in control of how you react. By revisiting and understanding the situation from a safe place (after walking away) you can make a plan of how to better handle it the next time it happens.

 

For many it is working on reaching a place where what others think or say or do is a reflection on the other person and has nothing to do with ones self. The point where "what others think really doesn't matter because you know yourself better". It takes a lot of self-analysis and thinking through and shaping your beliefs, but it is a much healthier place once you get there.

 

If there is a nice thing about going through ADWD it's the fact that we are given a second chance to get our life right. For many, their emotions, relationships and personal beliefs are torn away to the point they must question everything and rebuild from the ground up. Luckily our core beliefs will remain intact through it all, we just have to find them, dust them off and start working with them.

 

Surviving ADWD can give a person such a deep self understanding and inner strength, if they let it, that they will have a much greater control and understanding of the rest of their lives. People who never go through ADWD, seldom get the chance to do the self analysis and personal building that we do. In the end we know what we can survive and how to do it, we know what we believe and can incorporate it into our daily lives. We know what is important and what is not and are stronger for it.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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LiferButOK

I LOVE this.  I have a sister who enjoys pushing my buttons and another who enjoys dumping on me.  I habitually got very angry or upset that they purposefully sent such bad feelings to me.  Why do they hate me so???  But finally I stopped being so ego-centric and took a bigger view.  Wow, they act that way to everyone!!!  Not just me.  Finally I saw it was them, it was their way.  Now I can dislike the behavior without taking it personally and spiraling down into the pit.  Phew.  It only took me 55yrs to figure it out.  

1990 -  1996 Buspar for anx/depression.  (Previous tries with some others).

1996 BEGAN EFFEXOR for anxiety, depression, painful bladder spasms.

2006 breast cancer treatment year, including chemo.  I’m still here 🌾🌞 

2007, 2008, 2016 3x tried synthroid, Tirosint for low thyroid. Leg cramps +, foul mood.

2008-2011 Catapres 0.2mg clonidine patch for BP + anx added to Effexor; had to discontinue for possibility it was harming my memory (at work).

2013 Got retired early due to memory failures and mood control breakdown.

Dec2018 tried Mirtazapine 15mg to boost mood; it zonked me + my muscles!

Apr2020 tried Abilify 2mg with my 150 Effexor. BAD cardiac effect in 11days.

May 2020 direct switch from 150mg Effexor XR to 50mg Pristiq. AWASH in 4d.

23May2020 BACK again to just 150mg Effexor XR brand (now on it for 24yrs).

Other:  Krill oil, vit D drops, infreq 100%B vit.  Hibiscus or ginger/turmeric, or dandelion root teas seem helpful.  Believe in Source.  Starting MgCl2 in aloe w some glycerin as skin lotion.  Minimal coffee.  Trying to put play before work.  

 

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brassmonkey

Well done Lifer.

 

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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