gloworm: Tapered 10 mg Prozac over 6 months, Dr wants me to reinstate

[gloworm]

Is this really WD....I received a e-mail from a church friend who is a councilor which read :

 

I have a cardiologist friend who got hooked on Klonopin,  He said Prozac was a good substitute .....your brain chemistry probably got permanently altered.  (the Dr. said this she didn't) 

 

I then e-mailed a friend who is a neurologist and asked him. this was his response"

I have never heard of a drug changing the brain permanently .  On the other hand, it can take a long time to get over the effects.  I don't think Prozac is a great drug, however it can blunt emotions and maybe that's what you need right now.

 

What do I make off all this ?   I'm suffering terribly and I don't know why.  The obsessing over fear thoughts never end.....its making me sick, so very sick. My stomach burns, my body burns from all this adrenaline .  I am utterly hopeless to the very core, I live by the minutes.  I became so dramatic its not funny.  I'm scared to re-instate for fear of going of the edge.  I almost feel like the CNS damage is so great that it wont help.  I have POTS like symptoms now and NEVER had issues until off Prozac.  I have this feeling in my head all the time like air is flowing thru it ...like this head rush that NEVER leaves (woozy but not dizzy)  Maybe I have permanent damage fro the Klonopin ?  If it can cause dementia / Alzheimer's ...isn't that permanent damage ?  Should I go to neurologist , get a EEG ....this just does not get better.  I cant care for my ill 85 year old father, I am so needy its sick, I feel like I have DEEP emotional issues....I berate myself to the very core of my being .  These feelings STARTED BEFORE I was put on the Prozac.  When they increased my K to 3 x day is when the body burning and rage staeted.  they put me on low dose of Prozac (2 mg) and it was like butter on my brain and melted all that away.  That is when I started to taper the Klonopin over 2 years.  ALl these horrid emotions have filtered into my beliefs and its not good.

 

Does anyone know if there is a Doctor I could speak with .....ANYONE PLease ???  I really am in a bad way

 

 

 

 

[akrontes]

Hi gloworm. I am afraid I cannot help with you with a Doctor. I can tell you that I genuinely think I feel like the most evil person on Earth. I have been an absolute disaster with this whole process, and have been a disaster at this whole process and recognising it for what it is. I have the severest OCD whereby literally I have destroyed the meaning of EVERYTHING to the smallest detail, and the whole reason I have literally been beyond suicidal for the past year(getting worse) Is because of something I did 5 months into withdrawal trying to deal with the torment in my head. Something that for everyone else was entirely innocuous, made worst by a therapist who made be push my fear even further, and then made worst by telling people about. I won't go into it now but basically believe I have done the most evil thing on Earth whereas everyone else thinks I have done nothing wrong apart from the way I am reacting to it, I have made life hell for my Mother and family, am alienating myself to such a degree, I have lost all rational though and believe that is punishable in itself. I was very religious (albeit very irrational a year ago). Now I have literally resigned myself to hell, I cannot conceive of forgiveness, I can't imagine how ever I can exist when I have these (what everybody else calls thoughts in my head). I have been blaming my Mother about doing the Withdrawal, and don't believe it, yet am reluctant to go on meds. Everytime my Mother tells me to go on the site, I refuse saying there is no point that I am a million times worse than everyone elese, that no one has done what I have done. I have messed up every step of the way especially in this last year, and dwell constantly on the past and what is wrong, rather than solutions. It is too powerful, I cannot deal with this evil in my head.

 

[DrugfreeProf]

Gridley, thank you. I appreciate your kind words.  BTW, your country, Ecuador, is the one country in the world I would love to move to. I visited it a couple of years ago and fell in love with it. In fact, I was in Ecuador when I started to go through WD from Prozac/Ritalin. Visited Quito, Cuenca, Lojas. . .I love Ecuador!

[gloworm]

This awful feeling like I have head rushes .....like air flowing through by head 24 / 7 ......I had this a little before the Prozac was given to me .....now its horrible. 

I keep wondering is this too much glutamate in my brain ?  Would re-instating help this glutamate issue ....my gosh if I just knew what was wrong with me ....I don't know if this is WD...I feel so damaged .  How can I EVER heal with this much anxiety / stress and despair.....this can not be normal.

[gloworm]

Has anyone heard of this program:  The Dynamic Neural Retraining System™ is a natural, drug- free, neuroplasticity-based healing program ....

I called them .....it specifically targets the Limbic System.....I can not get out of fear mode......I wish I could just take a pill and this be gone.  I can not understand why this started with waves and just got progressively worse until this is all I live .....everything is bad - evil - sinful .....my brain perceives everything as a threat.

[gloworm]

I wake up at 3:00 I'm o fire ....burn from inside out ....I dot want to do this ....How can re-instatement stop this adrenal damage ??? HOW ? I'm fried up .......my eye sockets ache from fear and stress 

[bheb]

Hi gloworm. Sorry to hear about your suffering. I'm in a similar place of confusion about which drug is causing which symptoms. Bad akathisia, terror and burning too.

 

i have not heard of that program, and looking it up I don't know what to make of it. If it is some kind of mindfulness practice or meditation, it may be worth it. But I'd ask around a bit before trying.

[gloworm]

OMG.....why do I burn inside like I'm on fire with a blow torch head to toe ?  My body feels like cement ....what is this ? Is this adrenals ? The rage ....I cant live like this ....I should of never came off that Prozac I don't think....I need relief.  I didn't eat much dinner last evening and not enough food makes it feel worse I think .......someone tell me what is happening to me ? PLEASE ?

[gloworm]

If this is neuro-toxicity is this permanent damage ?

[gloworm]

I think I need to go back on Prozac ....I just cant cope anymore its too painful .....the anxiety is off any normal person has to deal with.  I have to wait until Friday cause my dad as 2 doctor appointments ..... Maybe if I go on a couple MG's it will make me ok ?  I fight with everyone, its just not working any longer.  I tried, I really tried.  All these benzo people just scared the crap out of me ....

[joy2730]

Reinstating a little is probably a good plan if you are very uncomfortable.  I can't see signatures at present, how long have you taken to get where you are? From what dose to what?  Reinstating does not mean you are giving up, it is just acknowledging where you are right now and saying enough is enough.

 

Keep us informed.

 

Joy

[gloworm]

Thank You Joy, I was giving the Prozac due to a paradoxal reaction to Klonopin ( 28 years low dose 0.5 1xday ) 10 Mg of Prozac about 3 1/2 years did a 6 month taper and have been off 1 year exactly.  This would be a whole lot easier if I knew what I was suffering from.  I don't know if this is Klonopin WD or Prozac WD or just me.  All I know is its not getting better and I wonder if there is permanent damage from the Klonopin of being on it so long. I have this airy woozy feeling in my brain that is awful, it never leaves.  I had this to some degree before I went on Prozac, I had kept a journal.  I probably should go to a neurologist ....something just feels very very wrong in my brain, my brain actually feels tired.  Or this is some kind of mental akathesia......I wish I knew......thank you for responding .... and the rage, paranoia, insomnia ect ect ect is too much .....this all got really bad being off Prozac

[joy2730]

Gloworm, are you older and female, both of which can make this withdrawal worse apparently.

 

People here seem to be saying that they get improvements 2 years off ADs but I don't know, I find it all very hard.  I do know years ago I tried and tried and tried to get off dothiepin and ended up in a real mess, and got on to citalopram to try to get sorted.  I didn't do well at all and thought it was my depression/anxiety/bipolar in full force but looking back, and knowing what I know now, I strongly suspect it was withdrawal only.

 

This was years before any withdrawal symptoms were recognised in society generally, and I was so ill I went to our local A&E department, 25 miles away, and a nurse there said to me 'Your body and mind get used to the drug and can't manage without it' - I thought nothing of it at the time, but it makes sense now.  I am glad I got on to the citalopram instead as the side effects from citalopram for me have not been as  bad as the side effects from dothiepin.  However, now I struggle to even reduce the citalopram, so I have swapped one for another, but citalopram doesn't muddle my thinking as much as dothiepin.

 

It is so easy to jump to the conclusion it is our mental health and not the drugs, but the reality is it is probably the drugs, but as we will never really know it is a question of whether you want to try reinstating or not to gain some quality of life back.

 

I know that medicine and health care should not be like this, but it is what it is.

 

My own GP said it is better to take a small amount of something than walk around day after day feeling wretched and miserable.  Sadly, I now tend to agree.  In an ideal world it would never be like this, but a perfect world is never going to happen, so we have to work with what we have.  What we have is the choice whether to try reinstating or not.  Not much of a choice, but better than no choice.

 

Will you feel a failure if you reinstate or will you feel you are taking control to try to resolve your health difficulties.

 

Examine how you honestly feel, what are you thinking?

 

If you are young and planning a pregnancy that would be an added reason to stay off, likewise wanting to breastfeed?  If those are not issues for you then you are lucky.  I had to do 2 pregnancies full of psychiatric drugs, and it went well really, but that is horrible.  Do you have family and a job that are being affected by the way you feel now.  Family and jobs are important, don't let anyone say they aren't, as loss of family and employment causes further distress.

 

I know 2 people who regularly reduce Prozac to a level that it is no longer effective and then reinstate on a regular basis.

 

Joy

[gloworm]

Thank you for you kind response joy , I am 56 soon to be 57.  Thing s I was having some of these issues BEFORE they put me the Prozac .  I strongly suspect that this in part is from klonopin .  And now I'm wondering if this is permanent damage ?  Main reason I don't want back on is that the Prozac may turn on me as well ? And then what when I'm older ?  Also , what if it makes me worse ?  My memory is also really messed up , I can't figure how to use my phone calculator , I won't drive as o don't trust myself , I get so confused and I'm wondering dementia ?

[joy2730]

I am 58 and think that my brain has been rewired so much from a lifetime of psychiatric drugs, which I am struggling with accepting.   However, I also accept I have been very ill over the years with anxiety and depression.  It is the not knowing what is illness and what is withdrawal that upsets me.

 

If you did reinstate a small dose and the symptoms eased then it would show it was withdrawal, but if it took about 6 to 8 weeks to take effect that would suggest it is illness and not withdrawal.

 

If you feel really bad, can you feel even worse?  Also if Prozac gave up on you in the future there is, sadly, quite a few others to go to.

 

Have you got a doctor you trust?  I don't really trust any of them now, as I feel I was overmedicated for many years.

 

Klonopin is like diazepam isn't it, a benzodiazepine, you may still have withdrawal from that.  When I withdrew from diazepam as soon as one week after my last dose I felt so much better, as if I had never taken it, but everyone is different.. I took diazepam from being 18 to being about 50 and found that my brain healed completely.

 

However, I feel that withdrawing from citalopram is much harder than diazepam.

 

You could set yourself a time limit, say if you don't feel any better 4 weeks from now, you will then reinstate a small dose to test the water - to see how you will react.

 

It is tough knowing what to do, it is like living in no man's land.

 

Have you listened to James Moore's podcasts 'Let's talk withdrawal' - those are really good, there are loads of people all over the world struggling in just the same way with these pills.  We are not alone.

 

Let me know how you feel this next week and what you are thinking.  Do you have anyone you can confide in about this difficulty.  I have no daughter, but no one else knows of my problems, well my husband knows of them but doesn't believe it is a problem - he just thinks take the pills.

 

Sadly you could be starting with dementia, have you asked your doctor about that?  Or mild cognitive impairment, the fore runner to dementia, but it is more likely to be other things such as stress and the psychiatric drugs.  Withdrawal does cause memory problems and well as everyday use causing memory problems.  When I get down lower in dose in citalopram I find my memory gets better and better.

 

Are you feeling a bit more positive than a few days ago?  You sound more positive.

 

Joy

 

 

 

[gloworm]

Will re-instatement Stop this cortisol / Adrenaline ?  Please I have to re-instate , my heart was 200...I cant take this. INTENSE anxiety and despair ....I tried to tough this out but its humanly impossible , I need to get thru my dad doctors appt. tomorrow and he had one Monday,  and I don't think I can wait that long .....I cant even stand from the despair it so bad....I think I have a rough time believing this is WD.....Still could be the Klonopin too.

[gloworm]

Someone mentioned to me if this were TRUE WD that a dose of re-instating would help ?  ( Joy mentioned this above )

or

If this is WD from Klonopin and Prozac covered it, would it still Help ?

 

 

 

[joy2730]

Yes if it is withdrawal your body/brain would respond to a reinstatement.  What are you thinking now?

 

Joy

 

[gloworm]

I feel like I have schizophrenia or something ....or psychotic or something ...... I don't live in reality ......la, st night I took a 1/ 4 of a tablet of B12 (my blood labs are low 300's), I got hot, agitated .....this just isn't getting better, I don't sleep harldy

[joy2730]

This may be withdrawal only, you probably don't have anything seriously wrong with you like schizophrenia, it is probably withdrawal, anxiety and/or depression or all three put together.

 

Joy 

[gloworm]

Joy, I had this boaty / airy / paranoid feeling BEFORE they put me on Prozac and BEFORE they upped my Klonopin dosage with that paradoxical reaction.  I was on Tamoxifen (for breast cancer) I was told in the benzo groups I had reached tolerance to the Klonopin and when up-dosed it went reverse on me.  OH GOD I need help....I need someone to talk to who knows these drugs.

[Terry]

I am so sorry for all your pain.  I don't have any medical advice for you, but I will pray for you.

[Altostrata]

gloworm, if you read through your Intro topic, you will see the staff has repeatedly and consistently told you that you probably have a combination of benzodiazepine and Prozac withdrawal syndrome. We have many people here with similar symptoms. They are all in great distress.

 

We have also told you many times to stay calm as you can, because your own worry and anxiety will add to your symptoms and make them worse.

 

Because you have had adverse drugs reactions, we have discussed 1) reinstating a benzo at a very low dose; or 2) reinstating Prozac at a very low dose. We have explained that the reason you might try a very low dose is because if you have a bad reaction, it will be a smaller bad reaction. It is possible your system is so sensitive, a very low dose will be sufficient to take the edge off your symptoms.

 

You have rejected all of these suggestions, yet you still are asking for solutions. We can't tell you what will fix you right away. We don't know. Nobody knows.

 

As an online peer support group, there's only so much we can do. We've done the best we can. Please review this topic again, keep as calm as possible, and make your own decisions.

 

You are in such a state, I strongly advise you to find someone near you to talk to frequently about your fears. Perhaps a mental health professional can coach you in stress-reduction techniques.

[gloworm]

I'm sorry .....I know I keep repeating myself but this is part of my problem....I ruminate and obsess .....I cant do this, I tried so hard.  I never saw to re-instate a benzo -----NO WAY could I do that, the drug totally went paradoxical on me ..... 

 

[gloworm]

I called al least 5 places to get help, nothing worked out 

 

[gloworm]

I have some questions:

 

If I re-instate Prozac will that help DECREASE  glutamate ?  

[gloworm]

This also started with toxic naps, now its toxic sleep.....if I do get to sleep and a deep dream state, I wake with terror....why does that happen ?

[gloworm]

Why was it that when I was on Klonopin for 30 years I had agoraphobia issues, went on Prozac and it went away.....now that I'm off both I'm in HELL....I want my life back .....2years it was the happiest I ever was....now my body stings, insomnia, crushing chest pain, panic, monophobia, agoraphobia, deep depression , foods bother me, cant take supplements, MY LIFE IS OVER

[ChessieCat]

On 31/10/2017 at 12:10 PM, gloworm said:

I called al least 5 places to get help, nothing worked out 

 

Were you not able to get an appointment?

[gloworm]

no....we have a shortage of psychiatrists where I live .....not taking new patients.....its so disheartening 

[ChessieCat]

regular doctors can prescribe

[gloworm]

I really wanted someone to follow me

[ChessieCat]

It doesn't sound like you will be able to do it the way you want to.  This is one of the reasons why SA exists.

 

It is possible, if you do seriously want to try reinstatement, to do it yourself with the information you can find here and the support of members of this site which is what many, if not most, of the members here are doing.  However you need to change the way you think and unpatient yourself.

[joy2730]

I agree with ChessieCat - try to own the problem and answer yourself.  A doctor or psychiatrist cannot know what is going on in your body and mind like you do, and they can't take away your anxiety.  You need to make a plan and follow it through, giving it plenty of time and patience and try not to stress about it.  All these days/weeks of worry are doing you no good and will be making you worse.

 

You need to get a routine visit to anyone who will prescribe and then try to sort it yourself.  Don't start the pills and then stop, start then stop like a lot of people seem to do, take them exactly as they should be taken and wait and see, at least a month.

 

I once had this type of horrid sleep in a hospital environment and reinstatement of my old antidepressant was my only solution, and being an inpatient only seemed to make things worse, not better.  Even in hospital no one really looks after you or follows your case properly, they just wait until the drugs take effect.

[gloworm]

I need to talk / vent .  A good friend called me, he said I need to get help, I am ill and illnesses get worse.  I believe him.  I was reading about the glutamate storms from Altostrata , will a reinstatement make it worse ?  I went out a bit yesterday and my eyes couldn't handle the stress from lights and being out.  I'm scared for my life now.  My CNS is so disabled I don't think re-instatement will work or I will think it wont work. But its the last hope I have so I just hold onto it.  I'm sick...so very sick.... I was also reading about the limbic system from Dr. Amen and he says sometimes we need Limbic Medications. Look, I was on Klonopin low dose for 30 years, chemo ad 32 rounds of radiation to my breast in 08 / 09 . Maybe I have permanent changes in my brain ?????  I cant believe I let this happen to myself.  For me the stress is making me so much worse......I cant fight this off.    I bought some Camu Camu and took 1/4 teasp last night ....I started to get the rage.  There is no help for me......

[bheb]

gloworm I am so sorry for you're suffering. I have a lot of the same thoughts (really hopeless, painful thoughts) as you do but I try not let them surface because they cause me further distress. I know, no matter how much reassurance you get from other people that you will heal or that you will get better, sometimes the message just can't get through. This means that even if you get the answer you want ("no its not permanent" or "healing will come") you won't really accept it. So sometimes you just need to disinvite your own thoughts that raise these questions. Your questions are all valid. But right now they won't help you.

 

This is what I try to do. I recognize that my suffering is real and terrible and that I have a right to have these hopeless questions. But I tell myself that they have to wait. Ask again in a day, ask again in a month, I'll say. But right now just use any machine-like instincts you have and just power through this moment. Easier said than done for sure. But see if you can prohibit yourself from asking. Just ward off the questions for a few minutes, then an hour, and so on.