laurel53: Introduction to the group. Please help me with my withdrawal

[laurel53]

Hello, I am in the beginning of citalopram withdrawal. This is day 14, going off at around 2.5 mg. after being on 5 mg. for 8 months. I tried to tell my doctor that I wanted and needed a very slow taper, since  he didn't think I should be on the citalopram with another AD. This cocktail had been prescribed by a different doctor in 2007. I had started at 20 mg. in combination with Cymbalta. Everyone in the particular current health care system is saying "redundant" and have tried to get me just to stop at 5 mg. I I've been with my current doctor for 2 years, and he is very frustrated that it has taken me so long to dump the drug. Iwas feeling great until the withdrawal symptoms started. I am having strong and loud  and occasionally painful heart palpitations, whoosh noises in my head, and cannot sleep the last several nights. Very tired and spacy, of course. I do get flashes of anxiety, which tend to push me into dark thoughts. Other weird somatic things that are less bothersome. I do have 21 10 mg. tablets left over, I would be interested in how to reinstate at a small dose (I had been trying to approximate 2.5 mg., but the generic pills are hard to cut.) , which seems to be the wisdom of this group. I had only taken that dose for around 3 weeks before quitting.

 

I am sensitive to meds, and had a wild ride getting off Prozac in 1992 (then back on 7 months later), Effexor in 2004, and the granddaddy, Klonopin, in 2006.

 

Now I can't remember what I am supposed to include in my sig file. Glad to be here. Thanks!

[ChessieCat]

Hi laurel and welcome to SA,

 

Here is the preferred format to create a drug signature:

 

A request: Would you summarize your history in a signature - ALL drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly?

• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 

• Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.
• Link to Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

The idea of reinstatement isn't to get rid of withdrawal symptoms completely but to bring them to a bearable level.  Please read Post #1 of the reinstatement topic.

 

Here are some helpful links:

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Important topics in the Tapering forum and FAQ (see the links to various drugs in Post #1 for your particular drug)

 

These helped me to understand SA's recommendations:

 

Brain Remodelling

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

It's important to learn and use Non-drug techniques to cope

 

This is your own introduction topic where you can ask questions and journal your progress.

[ChessieCat]

Here are a few more links:

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Stabilising - What Does That Mean?

Withdrawal Normal Description

 

Keep Notes on Paper

Rate Symptoms Daily to Check Patterns and Progress

[laurel53]

, Okay. Grateful for the science people on this site. As I mentioned in my intro post, on 1/1/18  I was off my not very perfectly cut 2.5 mg. of citralopam. After cutting do awn from 5 for half a yearI started feeling some anger issues on Wed. and Thurs. And the onset of difficult sleep. Over the weekend I had strong heart palps, little stabs of anxiety, and restlessness. No sleep, really, until last night. Heart noise loud as were ears. I woke up this morning feeling better, and good news of having slept. Heart rate stll high but not knocking me around.

 

Today another provider who gets it prescribed liquid citralopam for me and recommended 1 mg. Based on what I have said and what is posted about reinstatement on this site, would you recommend it for me, and if so, at what dose. I took tablets before, generic. Does switching to liquid present a problem?

 

I feel like I have a bad winter virus, with slight fever, chills, runny nose, headache. Or not a cold? No muscle pain. Maybe a flare up of a other condition, said my provider, who treats that.

 

I had been sleeping so well in Dec. Sigh. Now to do my Sig file.

 

 

 

 

 

[Downbutnotout]

On 1/14/2018 at 2:47 PM, Littlegrandma said:

I had emotional blunting the whole time on lexapro. Now, my mind races w/ the anxiety. Over-emotional. 

 No , I don’t see that light yet. I have flu like symptoms everyday. I just don’t feel well. The worse is the dp/dr. The foggy brain terrifies me. I sleep so little, I feel like a walking zombie. 

 

I was just on my hands and knees washing a small section of the floor and my tinnitus ramped up. Dang. Won’t do that again for awhile. 

 

Id be traveling also if not going through this. My husband still works but we had to put off a couple trips because of me. We go many weekends on the motorcycle in the summer-fall. Last year I could only make 2 day trips. I feel bad because this wd is affecting his life too. And all of my family. 

 

Do you follow Baylissa at all? Today’s inspiration had me in tears. Reading and listening to her has given me hope or assurance that this will end well, someday. 

What is dp/dr? Hope you’re doing better by now. 

[Littlegrandma]

2 minutes ago, Downbutnotout said:

What is dp/dr? Hope you’re doing better by now. 

Depersonalization/ derealization 

foggy brain

Its been a tough day. Didn’t start too bad, but got involved with some family chaos that sent me into a tailspin. Grandkids just left an hour ago. About ready for bed. Been up since 3:30ish. 

 

How was your day?

[Downbutnotout]

48 minutes ago, Littlegrandma said:

Depersonalization/ derealization 

foggy brain

Its been a tough day. Didn’t start too bad, but got involved with some family chaos that sent me into a tailspin. Grandkids just left an hour ago. About ready for bed. Been up since 3:30ish. 

 

How was your day?

It started out bad, got a little better. 

[Rosetta]

On January 14, 2018 at 2:28 PM, laurel53 said:

Hello, I am in the beginning of citalopram withdrawal. This is day 14, going off at around 2.5 mg. after being on 5 mg. for 8 months. I tried to tell my doctor that I wanted and needed a very slow taper, since  he didn't think I should be on the citalopram with another AD. This cocktail had been prescribed by a different doctor in 2007. I had started at 20 mg. in combination with Cymbalta. Everyone in the particular current health care system is saying "redundant" and have tried to get me just to stop at 5 mg. I I've been with my current doctor for 2 years, and he is very frustrated that it has taken me so long to dump the drug. Iwas feeling great until the withdrawal symptoms started. I am having strong and loud  and occasionally painful heart palpitations, whoosh noises in my head, and cannot sleep the last several nights. Very tired and spacy, of course. I do get flashes of anxiety, which tend to push me into dark thoughts. Other weird somatic things that are less bothersome. I do have 21 10 mg. tablets left over, I would be interested in how to reinstate at a small dose (I had been trying to approximate 2.5 mg., but the generic pills are hard to cut.) , which seems to be the wisdom of this group. I had only taken that dose for around 3 weeks before quitting.

 

I am sensitive to meds, and had a wild ride getting off Prozac in 1992 (then back on 7 months later), Effexor in 2004, and the granddaddy, Klonopin, in 2006.

 

Now I can't remember what I am supposed to include in my sig file. Glad to be here. Thanks!

 

Hi Laurel,

 

Welcome.  I'm glad you stood up to your doctor about a slow taper.  That's awesome!  The belief that one can stop these drugs without slow, careful tapers is so widespread and so very wrong.  

 

I'm one of those people who had initial insomnia that cleared up, then a euphoria period and then a slow slide down, down, down to the depths until at 5-6 months off the med I was extremely ill.  Then it got worse.  And then it got worse!  

 

So, I'm happy for you that at two weeks off the meds you know you need to reinstate.  I hope you have an easy task ahead!

 

Peace,

Rosetta

[laurel53]

Now I am nervous. Is 1 mg. too much for Reinstatement? Except for this cold, I feel okay today, and don't want to screw things up. 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, laurel.

 

1mg would be reasonable for your reinstatement of Celexa. If that makes you nervous, start at 0.5mg and see what that does. You'll have to give it at least 4 days to feel the whole effect. Please let us know how you're doing.

 

120mg Cymbalta is an excessive dosage, particularly with amitriptyline. If one doctor prescribed all these drugs for you, I would not take psychiatric drug advice from that doctor.

[laurel53]

I know. Even  my primary care doc always questions the dose. I do not see that doctor anymore. 

 

[laurel53]

I did not start the reinstatement because I had such a bad cold or flu with fever and other symptoms. Now it is day 19, and I wonder if I still can. I hate thinking how awful things might be down the road.. Feel like I screwed myself over royally. I have no appetite, elevated pulse, some sleep issues, and feel anxious. Dark thought are flooding in again. Need some feedback and support and courage. I woke up yesterday with the thought "I don't like people." That is not me. I am frightened.

 

 

 

 

[Rosetta]

Laurel,

 

I understand that frightened feeling.  You have been through this before with Prozac WD? And Effexor I suppose.  I don't know much about reinstating, but I do think that the advice I've seen here is that 19 days is not too late and even a month or more out is ok.  It all depends on your body and how it handles it, but please try not to worry about the future now.  Do what you can to prevent the WD from getting worse.    

 

I know all about those dark thoughts even the thought "I don't like people."  I didn't realize I was in WD back then.  Remember the thoughts go away.  You've done a good job so far of protecting your system with the slow taper.  You might be surprised and reinstatement is a perfect fix.

 

Try to visualize everything being fine.  Maybe the Cymbalta will smooth it all out for you more than you expect.

 

Oh, the flu!  That's rough.  Keep taking in fluids and make sure you get some citrus fruit.  I know food isn't very much fun for you right now, but try to remember what it used to taste like.  Visualize that.

 

Even if it's bumpy, you know it's WD; you're a veteran.  You won't be confused or likely to take rash action.  You can do this and ride it out.

 

Do you have any magnesium or Epsom salts for a bath?  Can you put on a guided meditation?

 

Rosetta

 

I see Altostrata said 

On January 16, 2018 at 3:54 PM, Altostrata said:

If that makes you nervous, start at 0.5mg and see what that does. You'll have to give it at least 4 days to feel the whole effect. Please let us know how you're doing.

[laurel53]

Finally attempted a reinstatement because I was hurting so badly. I have done a full week of 1 mg citalopram liquid. Not sure I am better. I have crazy sleep, some nights I do and others not at all. Think the twitching is better. Around midmorning I have intense symptoms that physically hurt and create a cascade of unrelenting painful thoughts and emotions. Spasms of depression and heart pounding anxiety. I have had to go out in our very cold winter weather and do some extreme walking to cope. Then, mid-afternoon I have a reprieve and feel "normal" for a while, until I start to worry around bedtime.

 

I have had no luck with my doctor's office getting validation for what is happening. I Can't believe what they don't know and how they are prone to patronizing patients. The therapist who runs a group I attend is totally cognizant of AD withdrawal. Very supportive.

 

So, thoughts about my now being on this 1 mg of citalopram and what to do with this hellish situation? Thanks so much!

[Gridley]

Remember that symptoms won't improve right away.  It takes about 4 days to for your nervous system to notice a change and then a week or longer to stabilize at that dose, so it may take a while to sort it all out. 

 

Would you say that symptoms are slightly better since reinstatement?  You did mention you thought the twitching was better and that you had a reprieve.  That is encouraging.  

 

Or would you say that symptoms are about the same?  Or would you say that symptoms are worse since the reinstatement?  

 

Please keep notes on paper of your symptoms and the times of your dose(s). This post has a useful format for a daily log:
Take notes of doses and symptoms.

 

I'm sorry you're getting no validation from your doctor.  Very few doctors know anything about withdrawal. 

[Rosetta]

Hi, Laurel,

 

I'm glad your therapist understands.  It is shocking that the doctors are so clueless.

 

I hope the reinstatement works for you!  

 

I suggest you keep track of the time of each dose of each of the 3 medications and the time of your various symptoms on paper.  Then post here how each day goes. Altostrata may be able to use that info to help you determine if the dose is too much or not.  She might be able to see from the timing of dose and symptoms if any of medications are causing a side effect in the hours after you take them.  

 

You have a mid-afternoon reprieve and then anxiety at bedtime?  Is the worry about whether you will sleep or about other subjects? Do you take any med at dinner or before bed?

 

i would put the reinstatement in your drug signature, too, with the date and the milligrams.

 

Wishing you relief soon,

Rosetta

[laurel53]

Will do.

Edited February 3, 2018 by laurel53
Figured out how to edit signature

[Rosetta]

Try this link http://survivingantidepressants.org/settings/signature/

[laurel53]

Thank youI 

[nz11]

Laurel would you give consideration to making a submission to the Scottish govt.

Be great if you could.

see my drug sig for details.

nz11

[laurel53]

Have been keeping track of my meds and symptoms. Started to feel better, then had three good days. On those days the heart  palpitations seemed less bothersome and I only had intermittent anxiety. Yesterday, I had all the discomfort again, and today feels similar. Twitches, Chest  hurts in a vague but irritating way, and I am not at all in a good frame of mind. 

 

I am sleeping better with white noise..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rosetta]

That's good that the white noise is helping.  You need sleep most of all.  Three good days!! Yeah! Wonderful.  Thats a good sign.

[laurel53]

Thanks, Rosetta! I hope things improve again. Yesterday was a very twitchy day, as was this morning when I woke up early. How do I tell if I am on too much or not enough citalopram? Should I have not reinstated? Overwhelmed by these thoughts. Frustrated that I cannot talk to my doctor and have him believe me. I see from reading around the forum that my experiences mirror those of others. 

 

Does anyone have suggestions for how to work with this in therapy?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[laurel53]

Also, when I began the reinstatement I took the first dose in the afternoon. I have been keeping to that schedule. Would there be a better time to take it?

[Rosetta]

On February 3, 2018 at 2:23 PM, Gridley said:

Please keep notes on paper of your symptoms and the times of your dose(s). This post has a useful format for a daily log:
Take notes of doses and symptoms.

[Gridley]

The afternoon is fine unless you think the Cymbalta is interfering with your sleep.  It's important to take your drugs, including Cymbalta, at more or less consistent time every day.  Remember, your nervous system craves stability.

[Rosetta]

I know you are keeping notes of your dose times and your symptoms in relation to your dose times (all four of them).  Maybe if you post that info here daily that will help the Mods tell you how the reinstatement is going.  It may be hard for you to do an assessment of your symptoms yourself because of brain fog or confusion?  Maybe a Mod would see a pattern you don't see?  I have no experience with reinstating, but I see the Mods ask for this info and then suggest holding or updosing or other options.  

[laurel53]

I will do that, Rosetta.

 

 

 

 

 

[laurel53]

The more I read others' stories, the more I want to get off Cymbalta. I can't believe I trusted someone who dosed me to 120mg. Plus threw a handful of other drugss into the mix. I left that provider for a number of reasons, but I AM in no less a difficult situation with this citalopram problem. First things first..

 

I suppose there is never a perfect time, but my current psychiatrist stopped my citalopram RX right when I was feeling good and was still in outpatient day treatment for anxiety and depression following a brief hospitalization in Oct.. I had ten wonderful weeks of loving life! It didn't take long for me to slip into the WD void after stopping the drug. Yes, I have gotten off other ADs and a benzo, but I am feeling things I don't remember and finding difficult to articulate.. <sigh>

 

 

[laurel53]

Another question or two. 

 

I have been a big fan of acupuncture for a long time. I found a clinic in my metro area that includes treatment for AD withdrawal on their webpage. So, I get that no stimulating treatments should be given, as well as no detoxes. 

 

Speaking of detox, I have been taking botanical antimicrobials for Lyme disease for 9 months. One of the formulas I take is a detox formula. Does this sound like something problematical? It is 2 drops a day. I do see my Lyme provider this week. And can someone explain what the danger is with detoxing? I want to be well prepared to meet with my Lyme doc. 

 

Thanks!

 

[laurel53]

Here are notes for several days since reinstatement.

 

February 3

4:30 AM woke up

9:00  AM diarrhea

11:30 AM 120 mg Cymbalta, 800 mg gabapentin, 20 mg Buspar

9-2 PM intense anxiety, feelings of depression, suicidal thoughts 

2 PM 1 mg liquid citalopram 

Reprieve from symptoms rest of day

9:45 PM 800 mg gabapentin, 10 mg, amitryptillin, 20 mg Buspar

10 PM stomach ache and sweating

BED

 

February 4 

6:30 AM woke up sick feeling in gut, desire to sleep/zone out, muscle twitches

9:30 MORNING meds

Loose stools

Several attacks of chest pain/anxiety

1 PM citalopram

Reprieve from symptoms in afternoon 

Edgy anxiety in evening

9 PM night meds

10PM sweating 20 min, heart palps, restlessness before falling asleep

 

February 9

4:30 AM woke up with intense anxiety, chest discomfort, muscle twitches, painful emotions and thoughts

9 AM LIGHT  breakfast of fruit

10:30 AM morning meds

Continuing pain and anxiety until around noon

Lunch

1:30 citalopram

Reprieve during afternoon but also crying jag

6PM dinner

9 PM night  meds 

10 PM reading before falling asleep with white noise

 

February 10

Midnight woke up but able to go back to slee, lots of dreams

5 AM woke up with anxiety and muscle twitching  --  put on Hulu on tablet and was lulled back to sleep by voices talking

8 AM awake with intense anxiety/pain in gut, ebbs after a while by general sense of unease and discomfort in chest

10 AM breakfast of fruit

10:30 morning meds

Restlessness, hard time relaxing or distracting:

12 PM light lunch

1:30 citalopram 

Difficult thoughts and cryi g

3 PM lifting of some anxiety and physical sensations

6:30 dinner

Evening watching Olympics

9 PM night meds (plan)

10 PM reading before bed (plan)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[laurel53]

February 11, 2018

6 AM woke up - no jerks or twitches, minimal anxiety, feeling a .little revved up

8 AM Lyme had

9 AM breakfast

10:30 AM morning meds

Faint heart palpitations 

11:30 protein snack

12:30 PM lunch

1:30 PM took citalopram

3:05 PM feeling warmish and experiencing "normal" anxiety

5:30 PM Lyme meds

7 PM dinner

10 PM  night meds 

11:30 bed - light sweating on legs

 

Overall  a GOOD day, mostly lazy, watching dog show and Olympics, reading paper

 

Has anyone used milky oats or oatstraw tea for reducing cortisol?

 

 

 

[laurel53]

Forgot to mention that I have been taking Cal/mag/zinc and vitamin D3 for years, plus a particular multi my Lyme provider recommended for 8 months. Also use magnesium oil on tops of feet and backs of legs at bedtime.

 

[Gridley]

You asked earlier about dangers of detoxing.  Here is what Alto wrote about detoxes.  I don't know if it applies to your particular detox and whether the need to treat the Lyme disease would outweigh the extra stress that detoxing might have on you.  Provided for your information..  

 

"My belief is that, our bodies and nervous systems being under so much stress from withdrawal, detoxing the liver or any other ritual of purification only adds further stress and doesn't do anything positive for proper withdrawal. (Liver detox was developed for serious, identifiable heavy metal poisoning.) Liver cleansing is one of those things naturopathic medicine routinely recommends for all kinds of ills, with very little evidence it helps any of them. I do not think it's appropriate for withdrawal syndrome."

[Rosetta]

Hi Laurel,

 

It looks like you had a good day on Feb 11.  That's a good sign.  I'm sorry to see you were having a lot of anxiety and all those other symptoms in the days before.  

 

I don't know the answers to your questions, sorry.  You could try eliminating each of the things in question for a few days -- one thing at a time -- the multi vitamin, the Vitamin D and the Detox formula.  You could also type "survivingantidepressants detox" into the search engine of your choice (without the quotes).  I understand that the site's search engine isn't as useful as Google is at finding threads about some topics.

 

Take care, Rosetta

[Rosetta]

(Laughing) @Gridley, this is getting weird.  Ha, ha, ha!!  Laurel, he and I often post on the same thread within an hour of each other.  Of course, he usually has all the answers, and I'm usually just in time to learn something new from him by complete accident. --Rosetta