Sesamepearls: Early days yet

[sesamepearls]

Hi all, 

 

After lurking here for quite some time, I think it’s about time I introduced myself. I’m a woman on the brink of turning 40 who has spent much of the past two decades on various different types of psych meds, and have very recently become drug-free after realising they were doing me more harm than good. I’ve since come to realise that I probably never needed them in the first place, especially since the issues which led to me being diagnosed with major depressive disorder were circumstantial, and that I could have fared better with psychotherapy and a decent support network instead. Like so many others, I bought into the lie that I had some sort of “chemical imbalance” which would require me to be on those wretched things for the rest of my days.

 

Now that I am off them, I’ve entered a whole strange new plane of existence which is a whole melange of things - terrifying, frightening and exhilarating, especially since I can now feel things more acutely than before. It is now nearly two months since I did a rapid taper 100mg of Zoloft, and I must confess that I am bracing myself for some pretty horrifying waves and setbacks - on the plus side, I’ve been able to go to work most of the time and function, although my job isn’t what one would call a high-stress occupation. 

 

Anyway, I’m looking forward to getting involved in this community and getting to know you all.

 

[sesamepearls]

And I’ve been waking up with some really awful cortisol spikes as well... terrible. 

[Gridley]

Hello, Sesamepearls and welcome to SA.  Congratulations on being medication-free.  You have a great attitude.

 

Thank you for posting your signature.  Could you please post a bit more information about your Zoloft taper, including the rate of taper, how long you held on each dose, and your dose when you stopped the drug.

 

Since you're preparing for some bad withdrawal symptoms, you're probably aware that you tapered much more rapidly than we recommend.  At SA, it is recommended that a person taper by no more than 10% of their current dose with at least a four week hold in-between decreases.  The 10% taper recommendation is a harm reduction approach to going off psychiatric drugs.  Some people may have to taper at a more conservative rate as they are sensitive to even the smallest drops.
Why taper by 10% of my dosage?  

 

Here is some excellent information on withdrawal:

What is withdrawal syndrome.

Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list.

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  Some people have found the information and explanations at these links helpful:

One theory of anti-depressant withdrawal syndrome

How your brain responds to psychiatric drugs - aka "Brain remodeling"

Youtube video, 4 minutes: Healing from antidepressants

 

Please be aware that sometime withdrawal symptoms don't appear immediately after a too-fast taper.

Delayed onset of withdrawal symptoms

 

It is understandable that you want to be drug-free as soon as possible.  I do want to present an option should the withdrawal become too difficult to bear.  

 

At this time, reinstatement of a very small dose of the original drug is the only known way to help alleviate withdrawal syndrome.  The only other alternative is to try and wait out the symptoms and manage as best you can until your central nervous system returns to homeostasis.  Unfortunately no one can give you an exact timeline as to when you will start feeling better and while some do recover relatively easily, for others it can take many months or longer.  

 

Reinstatement isn't a guarantee of diminished symptoms for everyone but it's the best tactic available.  You're still in the time period where reinstatement predictably works, up to 3 months after last dose.  It is best to reinstate as soon as possible after withdrawal symptoms occur. We usually suggest a much smaller reinstatement dose than your last dose.  Then, once you've stabilized on that dosage, you can begin a 10% per month taper down to zero.  

 

It is suggested that when a person tapered and the last dose was 1-3 months ago, go back to a very low dose, maybe 2mg-5mg to start with, increase after a week if it helped but isn't enough.   Try a very small dose (in case of hypersensitivity), such as 2mg.  If that helps but isn't enough, increase. If it doesn't help or makes symptoms worse, stop immediately.  Ultimately the decision is yours, but thought I should bring this to your attention so that you can make the best decision regarding your health and well-being.  

 

Please read the first few post of this topic on reinstatement.:

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms.

 

Whether you choose to reinstate or to wait out the symptoms, the techniques in these links have helped many members deal with withdrawal:

The Dr. Claire Weekes Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms.

 

Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

Please research all supplements first and only add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems. 

 

This is your introduction topic -- the place for you to ask questions, record symptoms, share your progress, and connect with other members of the SA community. I hope you'll find the information in the SA forums helpful for your situation. I'm sorry that you are in the position that you need the information, but I am glad that you found us.

 

Edited February 9, 2018 by ChessieCat

[sesamepearls]

Thank you for your response.

 

As for my Zoloft taper,  it was way too rapid - I reduced my dosage by 25mg over fortnightly intervals over October and November. That was before I stumbled across this site and became aware of the 10% recommendation. I felt like there wasn't much else I could have done, though, as a really horrid psychiatrist I saw in August suggested that I go off the Zoloft cold turkey and replace it with Lexapro and Mirtazapine. My gut told me that something was very off about that, especially as they both have reputations as weight gaining drugs, and my depression issues partially stem from poor body image and low self-esteem. Yeah... how would that have helped me address my underlying causes? To add to that, most GPs are ignorant of the effects those drugs can have on others, and that has fractured my trust in them quite a lot.

 

Now, there's something I neglected to admit, and that was that I thought about giving prozac another shot upon seeing another GP in early December - that wasn't before this bright spark of a doctor suggested that I start taking the Zoloft at an increased dosage of 150mg. My main reasons for ceasing the Zoloft were because it had simply stopped working for me, and was leaving me with some hideous side-effects instead, and I strongly felt I would be digging my hole deeper by reinstating it at a higher dosage. So, after this GP suggested Effexor instead and I said no to that, I opted for the Prozac - mainly because I had put on a considerable amount of weight over the years which I wanted to lose, plus I read that it is used as a bridging drug. Big mistake. I was put on 20mg, and I immediately felt like my heart was going to explode through my chest upon taking the first dose. So, I halved it, much to his disapproval, and I still didn't feel much better, so I ceased it after a few days. And with that, I decided I wasn't going to be returning to that GP. To me, he seemed incredibly arrogant and decided that he knew my condition was "biological" and that he knew more about me than I did about myself within two visits.

 

So, I'm willing to roll the dice with waiting for my system to return to homeostasis. I've been taking measures since coming off medication to mitigate my withdrawal symptoms, such as exercising regularly, amending my diet, and also taking the magnesium and fish oil supplements.

 

Oh, and I'll be sure to amend my signature to include the second trial run of Prozac back in December. Sorry I neglected to mention that before! And thank you for the links!

[ChessieCat]

On 09/02/2018 at 5:24 AM, sesamepearls said:

And I’ve been waking up with some really awful cortisol spikes as well... terrible. 

 

Here is the link to SA's discussion: waking-with-panic-or-anxiety-managing-cortisol-spikes

 

[samanthaelizabeth]

On 2/8/2018 at 1:16 AM, sesamepearls said:

Hi all, 

 

After lurking here for quite some time, I think it’s about time I introduced myself. I’m a woman on the brink of turning 40 who has spent much of the past two decades on various different types of psych meds, and have very recently become drug-free after realising they were doing me more harm than good. I’ve since come to realise that I probably never needed them in the first place, especially since the issues which led to me being diagnosed with major depressive disorder were circumstantial, and that I could have fared better with psychotherapy and a decent support network instead. Like so many others, I bought into the lie that I had some sort of “chemical imbalance” which would require me to be on those wretched things for the rest of my days.

 

Now that I am off them, I’ve entered a whole strange new plane of existence which is a whole melange of things - terrifying, frightening and exhilarating, especially since I can now feel things more acutely than before. It is now nearly two months since I did a rapid taper 100mg of Zoloft, and I must confess that I am bracing myself for some pretty horrifying waves and setbacks - on the plus side, I’ve been able to go to work most of the time and function, although my job isn’t what one would call a high-stress occupation. 

 

Anyway, I’m looking forward to getting involved in this community and getting to know you all.

 

Nice to meet you Sesamepearls.  I also have been on Zoloft for 19 years...Not sure if I will ever get off of it, but I will be tapering in few months the Mirtazipine.  Glad you found us, this group is awesome!

[sesamepearls]

12 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Here is the link to SA's discussion: waking-with-panic-or-anxiety-managing-cortisol-spikes

 

 

This is bound to be helpful. Thank you for that!

[sesamepearls]

7 minutes ago, samanthaelizabeth said:

Nice to meet you Sesamepearls.  I also have been on Zoloft for 19 years...Not sure if I will ever get off of it, but I will be tapering in few months the Mirtazipine.  Glad you found us, this group is awesome!

 

Glad to meet you too! I'm sorry you've been drugged with that nasty stuff for so long - here's hoping that you do come off it eventually!

[Gridley]

Good reasoning, sesamepearls.  Please let us know how things go.

[sesamepearls]

I will do. Right now, I feel like I'm barely treading water with all of those horrid symptoms I've been getting. And certain monthly cycles don't do much to alleviate the situation, either.

 

[sesamepearls]

And I had a really draining crying fit just now while in the shower. I can’t help but grieve for the person I used to be before I got started on those horrid things, and I distinctly remember my father giving me a hard time for being on them all those years ago. Even though we didn’t have the best relationship when I was younger, I now regret not listening to him, especially since we have a better relationship nowadays.

 

As for other symptoms I’ve been having, gastrointestinal issues have also been a thing, as well as being overly sensitised to noise, tinnitus and this electrifying brain sensation. Something tells me that this isn’t the worst to come, though I did have some really hideous flu-like symptoms and dizziness when I was fresh off the Zoloft.

[powerback]

3 minutes ago, sesamepearls said:

And I had a really draining crying fit just now while in the shower. I can’t help but grieve for the person I used to be before I got started on those horrid things, and I distinctly remember my father giving me a hard time for being on them all those years ago. Even though we didn’t have the best relationship when I was younger, I now regret not listening to him, especially since we have a better relationship nowadays.

 

As for other symptoms I’ve been having, gastrointestinal issues have also been a thing, as well as being overly sensitised to noise, tinnitus and this electrifying brain sensation. Something tells me that this isn’t the worst to come, though I did have some really hideous flu-like symptoms and dizziness when I was fresh off the Zoloft.

HI sesamepearls welcome .please don't be hard on yourself ,you did what we all did ,you put trust in a system and a profession that has let us down .

we will come out the other end stronger .hold on to that relationship you have know with your dad and cherish it .

I understand about the grief you talk about .be careful of the neuro emotions over whelming you .

I'm having a very reflect evening myself ,its less judgment and more comforting my soul with some nice music .

Be kind to yourself ,we will heal ,we are worth it . 

[sesamepearls]

Thanks, powerback. I will do my best to not let those neuro-emotions consume me, even though it is proving to be quite a struggle. Then again, it is morning where I am, and I do know that things will settle down later in the day, even though it seems like it will be a struggle for me. Being here assures me that I am not alone, at least.

[powerback]

1 minute ago, sesamepearls said:

Thanks, powerback. I will do my best to not let those neuro-emotions consume me, even though it is proving to be quite a struggle. Then again, it is morning where I am, and I do know that things will settle down later in the day, even though it seems like it will be a struggle for me. Being here assures me that I am not alone, at least.

Your vey  welcome ,be very aware  of them and get good at it ,looking back more than a year and a half ,they ripped me apart and just about ruined me .

I have a sister that emigrated to OZ so my thinking does be in OZ time ,is she up or in bed lol.

You are far from alone here ,you are among people than understand and can actually empathize .

Take care .

[sesamepearls]

I will, and I suppose it would be difficult to make that distinction if one is too caught up in them! Fortunately, crying it out does have very cathartic effects, and I’m feeling somewhat better now.

 

And timezones can be a bit of a hassle, huh. I have friends in the U.K. and Finland, and trying to guess what they are up to at any given moment tends to be a crapshoot!

 

Thanks once again. I’m glad to have found this community. 

[sesamepearls]

Here’s to yet another day. I’m amazed that I didn’t feel the urge to shut myself inside a toilet cubicle and sob my guts out at work. Instead, I felt this all too pervading anxiety about my living situation. As much as I’d like to get the hell out of there, it seems that it will be easier said than done, and if feeling dread about going home isn’t a sign that I have to go, then I don’t know what is.

[AliG]

On 2/8/2018 at 7:16 PM, sesamepearls said:

recently become drug-free after realising they were doing me more harm than good. I’ve since come to realise that I probably never needed them in the first place, especially since the issues which led to me being diagnosed with major depressive disorder were circumstantial, and that I could have fared better with psychotherapy and a decent support network instead. Like so many others, I bought into the lie that I had some sort of “chemical imbalance” which would require me to be on those wretched things for the rest of my days.

 

Hi Sesamepearls. Welcome. This statement is so true for most of us and it certainly rings true for me ~ I felt exactly the same.

 

As it has only been approximately 2 or so months out, I would hope that you might seriously consider a small reinstatement to help out with withdrawal symptoms and ease the pain, as well as to keep your life on track. Withdrawal and particularly cold turkey W/D can so often derail it ... to such a huge degree. Reinstatement can help to soften withdrawal symptoms and help you to keep functioning as normal.

 

8 hours ago, sesamepearls said:

As much as I’d like to get the hell out of there, it seems that it will be easier said than done, and if feeling dread about going home isn’t a sign that I have to go, then I don’t know what is.

 

It's best not to make any definite, major life decisions whilst in the midst of withdrawal :     I often had a certain amount of dread about going home or even being home, for that matter ~ in fact, there was really nowhere that I felt comfortable ... including my own skin. I always felt like I was ready to jump out of it. It's such a horrible feeling, only known to us ... in W/D.

 

On 2/9/2018 at 7:44 AM, Gridley said:

Please be aware that sometime withdrawal symptoms don't appear immediately after a too-fast taper.

Delayed onset of withdrawal symptoms

 

It is understandable that you want to be drug-free as soon as possible.  I do want to present an option should the withdrawal become too difficult to bear.  

 

At this time, reinstatement of a very small dose of the original drug is the only known way to help alleviate withdrawal syndrome.  The only other alternative is to try and wait out the symptoms and manage as best you can until your central nervous system returns to homeostasis.  Unfortunately no one can give you an exact timeline as to when you will start feeling better and while some do recover relatively easily, for others it can take many months or longer.  

 

Reinstatement isn't a guarantee of diminished symptoms for everyone but it's the best tactic available.  You're still in the time period where reinstatement predictably works, up to 3 months after last dose.  It is best to reinstate as soon as possible after withdrawal symptoms occur. We usually suggest a much smaller reinstatement dose than your last dose.  Then, once you've stabilized on that dosage, you can begin a 10% per month taper down to zero.  

 

It is suggested that when a person tapered and the last dose was 1-3 months ago, go back to a very low dose, maybe 2mg-5mg to start with, increase after a week if it helped but isn't enough.   Try a very small dose (in case of hypersensitivity), such as 2mg.  If that helps but isn't enough, increase. If it doesn't help or makes symptoms worse, stop immediately.  Ultimately the decision is yours, but thought I should bring this to your attention so that you can make the best decision regarding your health and well-being.

 

Gridley, laid this out so well : I can only reiterate, that perhaps a small reinstatement may be your best course of action, at this time.

 

If this is something that you feel comfortable with ~ please let us know and we can advise a starting dose.

 

Ali

[Rosetta]

The feeling of being uncomfortable in my own home is very familiar to me.  I sit and tell myself all the objective reasons that I am safe in my home . It works, but I have to do it over and over, everyday or even more than once day.

[sesamepearls]

5 hours ago, AliG said:

 

Hi Sesamepearls. Welcome. This statement is so true for most of us and it certainly rings true for me ~ I felt exactly the same.

 

As it has only been approximately 2 or so months out, I would hope that you might seriously consider a small reinstatement to help out with withdrawal symptoms and ease the pain, as well as to keep your life on track. Withdrawal and particularly cold turkey W/D can so often derail it ... to such a huge degree. Reinstatement can help to soften withdrawal symptoms and help you to keep functioning as normal.

 

 

It's best not to make any definite, major life decisions whilst in the midst of withdrawal :     I often had a certain amount of dread about going home or even being home, for that matter ~ in fact, there was really nowhere that I felt comfortable ... including my own skin. I always felt like I was ready to jump out of it. It's such a horrible feeling, only known to us ... in W/D.

 

 

Gridley, laid this out so well : I can only reiterate, that perhaps a small reinstatement may be your best course of action, at this time.

 

If this is something that you feel comfortable with ~ please let us know and we can advise a starting dose.

 

Ali

 

I have to confess I’m not entirely comfortable with it, especially when I consider the reasons why I stopped the Zoloft in the first place. Not only did it poop out on me, but I was left with gastrointestinal issues, and a whole bunch of horrendous intrusive thoughts were starting to surface, not to mention the weight gain I suffered on it. What kind of dosage would you suggest, if push comes to shove?

 

As for those thoughts about me wanting to move house, they only surfaced in the past couple of months, so it could very well be the withdrawal speaking. But it’s worth mentioning that it’s an old rental property that is falling apart on us, plus it’s in a noisy area, has cracks on the walls in every room, is badly ventilated and infested with cockroaches. I share it with my brother, and he apparently isn’t all that keen on leaving, even with the apartment being in this deplorable state. I’d so badly like to live in a quieter area surrounded by parkland and greenery, but I probably should really hold off for now.

 

 

[sesamepearls]

4 hours ago, Rosetta said:

The feeling of being uncomfortable in my own home is very familiar to me.  I sit and tell myself all the objective reasons that I am safe in my home . It works, but I have to do it over and over, everyday or even more than once day.

 

I make do with what I can in my surroundings, and while I know I’m safe, I feel like I’m being buried alive by continuing to live there.

[Rosetta]

Sesame, Ah, I understand about the apartment.  That's not ideal.  I'm glad that you know you are safe though.  That's important.

[sesamepearls]

Thanks. We’ve been living there for nearly 15 years now, so I do believe it’s time to go. Easier said than done, however.

[sesamepearls]

It’s been a few days, so I thought I’d check in. I’m increasingly starting to feel like I am being backed into a corner, and now I’m starting to contemplate whether reinstatement would be a good thing. I do have some fluoxetine lying around from my brief stint with it in December, and yet it triggered some hideous anxiety within me when I took it, so I have some serious misgivings on that front. On the other hand, I threw out the remainder of my sertraline - I didn’t see much point in continuing to take it if it had pooped out on me and left me with negative side effects in the end. 

 

Now, I’d very much like to interact with others on their threads - thing is, I’m at a loss as to what to say much of the time, since giving advice/support isn’t really my strong suit, so I apologise for that. 

[ChessieCat]

SA's recommendation for reinstatement is to start with a very low dose.  

 

On 09/10/2012 at 10:17 AM, Altostrata said:

What is known about reinstatement
from my reading and from patient experience as posted on online support sites:

• According to medical knowledge, reinstatement is the only way to alleviate withdrawal symptoms.
• Reinstatement is best done immediately upon appearance of withdrawal symptoms. The more time that passes, the less likely it is to work.
• The length of this window of opportunity varies according to the individual. Sometimes people can reinstate successfully months after quitting. Others cannot.
• Often a partial dose will relieve withdrawal symptoms. If, for example, you were taking 20mg Paxil and quit rapidly only a few days ago, 5mg or 10mg may be enough. Others find they need a higher dose.
• Start low to see what you need. You can always increase if necessary. If you've been off the drug for a month or more, many people can find relief from antidepressant withdrawal symptoms by reinstating as little as 1mg-5mg.

Additional reasons to reinstate only a partial dose
Reinstating at a low dose reduces the risk of severe adverse reactions in case reinstatement does not work.

• Experiencing withdrawal may have sensitized you to drugs and a larger dose will cause an adverse reaction.
• These drugs are vastly more powerful than they need to be; often reinstatement at half dosage AT MOST is sufficient and many people do well with a lot less. You want to be taking only the lowest EFFECTIVE dose.
• Your receptors may have adjusted somewhat (upregulated) during the time you were tapering or had withdrawal symptoms.
• If you can stabilize on a lower dose, you have less to taper when you finally do go off.
• If you had adverse reactions while you were taking the drug, a low dose may not trigger the adverse reactions but still reduce withdrawal symptoms. Adverse reactions tend to be dosage-related: The higher the dose, the worse the reaction.
• You can always adjust the dosage upward if you find you need to.

 

I've highlighted several things in green and purple.

[sesamepearls]

Thanks for that, Chessie. I’ll definitely consider it, should I really find myself backed into a corner. 

 

I guess the only only other thing holding me back from doing that is my desire for my CNS to right itself as soon as possible. That, and I terribly miss my old, pre-drugged self. 

[AliG]

Sesame. Please don't leave it too late ~ It would be hard to see you lose the opportunity to reinstate. If you lose this window, it can sometimes be hard to come back from. The more time that passes, the less likely it is to work.

 

We are only talking a few mg's - perhaps 1 or 2. If you don't have success ~ you can stop immediately.

 

Let us know if this is something you want to pursue. It's totally your call ~ up to you. We just want you to be aware of what is available in these early days of withdrawal ~ so as to make an informed decision. As time goes on - it can become much harder.

 

Ali

[sesamepearls]

7 hours ago, AliG said:

Sesame. Please don't leave it too late ~ It would be hard to see you lose the opportunity to reinstate. If you lose this window, it can sometimes be hard to come back from. The more time that passes, the less likely it is to work.

 

We are only talking a few mg's - perhaps 1 or 2. If you don't have success ~ you can stop immediately.

 

Let us know if this is something you want to pursue. It's totally your call ~ up to you. We just want you to be aware of what is available in these early days of withdrawal ~ so as to make an informed decision. As time goes on - it can become much harder.

 

Ali

 

I caved in and took 1mg this morning, but not without any hesitation. Those hideous cortisol spikes I get upon waking up are a problem for me still, and I wondered if I should roll the dice with that as Prozac has only served to amplify my anxiety in the past. So, I did. The form of Prozac I have can be dissolved in water, so I dissolved a 20mg tablet in 100ml water, and consumed 5ml of that. Needless to say, I did feel my pulse increase, though I am feeling somewhat lighter now.

 

In all honesty, I’d rather not be a slave to antidepressants for any longer. What can I do, though? 

[Gridley]

Wait until you stabilize.  This can take some months.  Then taper 10% per month.  Be patient.  No one wants to be a slave to these drugs but it takes time to get off them safely.

[sesamepearls]

I took 1mg this morning, and now I’m thinking I may be too sensitive to that :/

[ChessieCat]

What symptom/s makes you say that?

 

How long after taking your dose did the symptom happen?

 

Please keep daily notes on paper:  Keep Notes on Paper

[sesamepearls]

2 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

What symptom/s makes you say that?

 

How long after taking your dose did the symptom happen?

 

Please keep daily notes on paper:  Keep Notes on Paper

 

The rapid heartbeat, agitation and anxiety, though it was minor compared to what it was when I thought I’d try again at 20mg. It happened straight away and kept going for the next few hours. Whether that will interfere with my sleep is yet to be seen, and it’s not as though those early morning cortisol spikes were problematic enough.

 

And yes, I shall do so. 

[Gridley]

Sesamepearls,

 

How are you doing now?  Were you able to sleep?   

 

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Gridley

[sesamepearls]

I was able to, yes. Still woke up with my heart pounding, though.

 

[Gridley]

That you were able to sleep is very encouraging.  How are the other symptoms?

[FarmGirlWorks]

On 2/10/2018 at 1:23 PM, sesamepearls said:

I can’t help but grieve for the person I used to be before I got started on those horrid things, and I distinctly remember my father giving me a hard time for being on them all those years ago. Even though we didn’t have the best relationship when I was younger, I now regret not listening to him, especially since we have a better relationship nowadays.

Totally get that, SesamePearls! I have a friend who was just plain anti-psych drugs and had an almost belligerent thrust against them. And I was just as belligerent defending them :-(    Now, I wish I hadn't ever put the poison in me but it is part of our culture and bucking it is also tough to do.

 

Welcome -- this forum is indeed a great support.

[sesamepearls]

45 minutes ago, Gridley said:

That you were able to sleep is very encouraging.  How are the other symptoms?

I’ve still been getting tearful and crying throughout the day at work, plus the anxiety still lingers somewhat. Plus I still have the gastrointestinal issues and sensitivity to sudden loud noises, as well as those strange sensations in my head - not quite brain zaps, but more like this feeling of goose pimples in my head which are still present, if that makes any sense. Although they’re more intense during the day, they usually die down later on (fingers crossed).