Dabhob33: introduction

[Dabhob33]

15 hours ago, Altostrata said:

My guess is doxylamine has gone paradoxical on you. If I were you, I'd stop taking it. That could be the reason for your sleep panic.

 

A paradoxical reaction means a drug does the opposite of what it's supposed to do.

 

When you take several things at the same time that supposedly would help you sleep, in the aggregate, they can be too much for your nervous system and cause a paradoxical reaction -- your nervous system fights against them. Such a combination might well be

 

First, If I were you, I'd stop taking doxylamine. Keep notes over several days to see if that helps your sleep.

 

Then, I would not take Valium and lithium at the same time at night. They need to be offset by at least a couple of hours. 

 

My guess is a paradoxical reaction also happens in the afternoon because the combination of lithium and Valium and maybe the eye drops, too, is too much for you. Your Valium schedule is also lopsided, with 5mg at 8 a.m. and 5mg at 10 p.m. There's a gap of 10 hours overnight and 14 hours during the day.

 

But overall, it looks to me like you're taking too much lithium or Valium or maybe both. (The eye drops must remain constant.) Have you worked with Shep on your Valium schedule? 

 

 

Those were suggestions made by @JanCarol . I would prefer she review your lithium intake. I am concerned about it being lopsided, too.

 

Let's say lithium does have a stabilizing effect for you. It would be better to stretch it out, and maybe get more of that influence into your sleeping time.

 

 

Don't overthink it. Keep good notes and look for patterns. If it seem saunas are beneficial, work more of them into your evenings. If the beneficial pattern does not bear out, take fewer saunas.

Ok...to bring everything together...

- stop the Doxylamine (take notes)

-  need to look at new times for lithium doses (Connect with @JanCarol?).  ie 2 hour spacing between lithium and valium.  Should I look at taking all 900mg lithium at night?

-  need to look at possibly restarting valium drop (connect with Shep).   Regarding current dosage times Shep had set me up for those times.  I’m open to changing, of course.  Should I look at taking valium 3x daily.    Say 9am 2.5mg, 3pm 2.5mg, 10pm 5mg?   I purchased the scale and am ready to start again.  

 

Anything im missing?

 

Are Shep and JanCarol seeing these posts?   Wasn’t sure... 

 

[Altostrata]

Doxylamine was an added problem. The interaction between your benzo and lithium is a fundamental problem, one that your doctor should have caught a long time ago, no matter how much he or she was a "fan" of lithium.

 

2 minutes ago, Dabhob33 said:

Ok...to bring everything together...

- stop the Doxylamine (take notes)

-  need to look at new times for lithium doses (Connect with @JanCarol?).  ie 2 hour spacing between lithium and valium.  Should I look at taking all 900mg lithium at night?

-  need to look at possibly restarting valium drop (connect with Shep).   Regarding current dosage times Shep had set me up for those times.  I’m open to changing, of course.  Should I look at taking valium 3x daily.    Say 9am 2.5mg, 3pm 2.5mg, 10pm 5mg?   I purchased the scale and am ready to start again.  

 

Anything im missing?

 

Are Shep and JanCarol seeing these posts?   Wasn’t sure... 

 

This is correct.

 

@JanCarol is on vacation. Please look at your topic in the Benzo forum.

[Dabhob33]

23 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Doxylamine was an added problem. The interaction between your benzo and lithium is a fundamental problem, one that your doctor should have caught a long time ago, no matter how much he or she was a "fan" of lithium.

 

 

This is correct.

 

@JanCarol is on vacation. Please look at your topic in the Benzo forum.

I posted a note to Shep over there.   Thank you altostrata.  

[Dabhob33]

7/12

 1 -2 - awake

3 - sleep

6 - awoke / sleep 

7 - woke

Anxiety in stomach / chest

Up for day 

****Started new online Sleep course called Go!to Sleep through the cleveland clinic.   Tracking sleep and using CBTI.  I’m meeting with creator of program Dr Drerup on 8/29/18 for sessions.   But others not in cleveland can use the online / remote course.   Might be something for others to consider who are having sleeping issues.   Here’s the link - https://my.clevelandclinic.org/-/scassets/8881218339914257bc112d6cb986b4e3.ashx

 

8 - breakfast -valium 5mg /eye drops / green smoothie

10 -  450mg Lithium 

11 - sauna 15/5 155 degrees - anxious beforehand and settled down after / coconut waterww 

12 - lunch  

1 - Charli es basketball camp 

Dozed off and woke up seconds later in panic. Ugh.... 

430 - pick up charlie from camp 

6 - dinner

10 - lithium 225mg / 5mg Valium

1030 - Sleep

7/13/18

530 - woke

[Altostrata]

Thanks for that link, I've posted in our Symptoms and Self-Care forum for others to see.

 

Looks like your sleep pattern is better.

[Dabhob33]

7/13/18

530 - woke

8 - breakfast -valium 5mg /eye drops / green smoothie / omega 3 / probiotics

Guided Imagery - felt restless 

Head pressure - hate this feeling

10 -  450mg Lithium 

12 - lunch  

1 - drop off charlie at basketball camp / take in stool sample (been having chills and diarrhea for over a week) / dropped off dental paperwork for Syd 

130 - head pressure all day 

2 - sauna - 15/5 155

430 - pick up charlie

6 - dinner at market district 

7 - movie - antman / wasp

*****Fell asleep for a few minutes and woke up screaming in panic.  Had to walk out to compose myself.   Embarrassing and feel awful in my head. 

10 - lithium 225mg / 5mg Valium

11 - Sleep

7/14/18

430 - woke in anxiety / dread / heavy head

Dozed in and out until 630

[Dabhob33]

Question for moderators:

I’m planning to stay up late (going out with another couple for first time in quite some time).   I won’t drink, actually haven’t for over 2 years.   

 

Do I take my evening meds at scheduled times?   9pm valium and 10pm Lithium.   Or adjust for later sleep time?   Then again, I’m assuming the meds are helping with my sleep.   I think I know the answer but just checking.     

[Altostrata]

Please take your drugs on the same schedule each day. Consistency is essential.

[Dabhob33]

7/14/18

430 - woke in anxiety

Dozed in and out until 630

 

8 - breakfast -valium 5mg /eye drops / green smoothie / omega 3 / probiotics

Guided Imagery - felt restless 

Head pressure - hate this feeling / worried about benzo wd 

 

Kids went with a inlaws for day and overnight 

 

10 -  450mg Lithium 

Watched Wimbledon on couch

12 - lunch  

1 - sauna - 15/5 155

Feel fatigued but afraid to take a nap

430 - feeling heavy head and nervous about going out tonight.   Have to live my life.  I will be alright.  

545 - dinner downtown with swboni’s 

Walked around lakeshore.   Feeling pressure in head.  Depressed. 

9 - 5mg Valium

10 - lithium 225mg / mag calm

11 - Sleep

7/14/18 

230 - woke - body burning

330 - sleep

500 - woke - anxious

[Dabhob33]

Answering Shep’s question re my lithium level.   I just had it taken last week.   I’m at .62 (range of .6-1.2).   

 

 

[Dabhob33]

7/15/18

230 - woke - body burning

330 - sleep

500 - woke - anxious  

8 - breakfast -valium 5mg /eye drops / green smoothie / omega 3 / probiotics

Breathing exercise - felt restless 

9 - watched Wimbledon

10 -  450mg Lithium 

1030 - picked up kids at grandma Raymond’s 

11 - World Cup final - France and Croatia 

12 - lunch  

1 - dropped charlie at Wills house 

2 - swimming with Syd and sauna 10/10

Heavy head/eyes and depressed / worried about sleep.  Feel fatigued.  

4 - dozed off and woke in panic 

6 - tea party with Syd 

7 - picked up charlie at wills - caustic feeling washed over me

8 - 5mg Valium

9 - fire pit at Santora’s before they move and marshmallows next door with Kids 

10 - lithium 225mg / mag calm

11 - Sleep

7/16/18

4 - woke - sense of doom / wake with anxiety. 

[Dabhob33]

7/16/18

4 - woke - sense of doom 

Drift in and out until 7 

8 - breakfast -valium 5mg /eye drops / green smoothie / omega 3 / probiotics

Breathing exercise - felt restless 

9 - breakfast with Dad mom and Kids for bday 

10 -  450mg Lithium 

***Starting at 1030am - Feeling low - heavy head - tight - fatigued

12 - lunch  

1 - magnesium calm drink 

2 - daisy Vet appt 

230 - Tylenol 162mg

3 - charlie guitar lessons 

6 - charlie baseball playoff game 

***feel very agitated / tight head / very hot temp / depressed

8 - 5mg Valium

830 - Tylenol 162mg

10 - lithium 225mg / Sleep

1130 - Sleep - woke in panic 

7/17/18

330 - woke - achy / magnesium calm drink

Doze in and out - up rest of night

Not getting enough consistent sleep is really creating a lot of worry and depression.   Feeling hopeless.  Also worried abort benzo taper.   

[Shep]

Dabhob, now that you've spaced your lithium and valium out, please post your thoughts on which drug you would like to taper first. Some questions that can guide this answer:

 

1. Which drug makes you feel more sedated? 

 

2. Since Valium is the first drug of the day, do you feel tired or lethargic when you take it? Can you feel it "kicking in"? If so, is that feeling a "sedative" type of feel, especially prior to taking the Lithium? 

 

3. Same question about Lithium - can you feel it "kicking in"? If so, how does it feel? Any sedation at all? 

 

From your journal, sometimes the morning Valium makes you restless, but you don't post having that same feeling with your nighttime Valium dose. So it's likely you'll do better with a microtaper from one of your morning doses, but please let us know what your thoughts are and if you have a preference for which drug you wish to remove. 

 

[Dabhob33]

7 minutes ago, Shep said:

Dabhob, now that you've spaced your lithium and valium out, please post your thoughts on which drug you would like to taper first. Some questions that can guide this answer:

 

1. Which drug makes you feel more sedated?    

*definitely valium, but interesting thing is that I’m not getting good sleep with it and it hits me hard from a depression perspective.  

 

2. Since Valium is the first drug of the day, do you feel tired or lethargic when you take it? Can you feel it "kicking in"? If so, is that feeling a "sedative" type of feel, especially prior to taking the Lithium? 

* I definitely feel the valium “wash” over me, depressing me and heavy headed, sedated feel.   

 

3. Same question about Lithium - can you feel it "kicking in"? If so, how does it feel? Any sedation at all?    

*don't notice it kick in, unless I’m still feeling the effects of valium and it’s masking the valium.  

 

From your journal, sometimes the morning Valium makes you restless, but you don't post having that same feeling with your nighttime Valium dose. So it's likely you'll do better with a microtaper from one of your morning doses, but please let us know what your thoughts are and if you have a preference for which drug you wish to remove. 

*I'm thinking the taper from the morning valium.  

 

 

[Altostrata]

The eye drops may also be interacting with Valium. Dabhob, why are you taking them at the same time in the morning?

 

Why are you taking the Tylenol?

[Dabhob33]

5 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

The eye drops may also be interacting with Valium. Dabhob, why are you taking them at the same time in the morning?

 

Why are you taking the Tylenol?

Time I was instructed to take by opthamologist.

 

Tylenol due to my migraines.   

[Altostrata]

Do you get migraines regularly? I don't seem them in your symptom pattern.

[Dabhob33]

Just now, Altostrata said:

Do you get migraines regularly? I don't seem them in your symptom pattern.

Whenever I take the Tylenol.   Not sure why I don’t list it as such.  It just such a part of me.  I got them before benzos.   I’ll be sure to include when have.  

[Altostrata]

Is it possible the eye drops trigger your migraines? Did you ever discuss adverse effects from the eye drops with your ophthalmologist?

[Dabhob33]

I’ve had migraines since my 20s.  Now 46.   They’re not as bad as they were early on and 30s.   

[Dabhob33]

It seems I’m short of breath.   Always tired.  I wake in a panic after drifting off.   It shows that Valium and lithium can cause shortness of breath.   Do you think this could be what’s causing they sleep issues.   Gasping for air bc shortness of breath.  

[Altostrata]

I believe we've discussed this several times -- you are taking too much in the way of "brakes."

[Dabhob33]

Just now, Altostrata said:

I believe we've discussed this several times -- you are taking too much in the way of "brakes."

I know we did.   It’s so distressing.  I need to come down soon.   I can’t take this.  

[Dabhob33]

7/17/18

330 - woke - achy / magnesium calm drink

Doze in and out - up rest of night

8 - breakfast -valium 5mg /eye drops / green smoothie / omega 3 / probiotics

10 -  450mg Lithium

1030 - sauna - 27 mins - 22/5 - cool shower in between 

12 - lunch  

2 - Jurassic Park with charlie and Del 

Diarrhea 

4 - doze off - panic - absolute horrific feeling.  I dread sleep. 

630 - Charlie baseball meeting for parents for next spring/summer season

8 - 5mg Valium

10 - lithium 225mg

10 - sleep

7/18/18

12 - woke

330 - woke - dozed - up for the day

[JanCarol]

Hey Dabhob - 

 

On 7/5/2018 at 1:38 AM, Dabhob33 said:

1030 - woke / 25mg doxylamine

 

Your signature says your last dose of this was in May, please keep your signature updated?

 

While this may offer temporary relief, I'm concerned that it is destabilising overall, and can cause waves in its wake.

 

I'm sorry to come out with one stern request, but I cannot do more tonight, and promise to keep reading tomorrow.

[Dabhob33]

No problem.  Done.  

Also updated latest lithium blood test. .60. 

[JanCarol]

Hey Dabhob - 

 

On 7/7/2018 at 8:44 PM, Dabhob33 said:

7 - Cleveland Indians baseball game with Raymond’s, Scott and Shelly 

 

OMG - that same night, I was at the Indianapolis Indians (vs. Columbus, OH), which is the Minor League feeder team for Cleveland.  We had a great night, and it was an awesome treat for my Lil Sis to be at live Baseball.

 

It really sounds like you have a rich, supportive social life.  I hope you can express gratitude to all of the people around you - they may support you in invisible ways.  Maybe not direct support for your taper & withdrawal - but social support, someone to carry you when you are just drifting along.

On 7/7/2018 at 9:38 PM, Dabhob33 said:

The only “bad thing” I see on the list is caffeine.  

 

And the copper.

 

And the shotgun spray of aminos, in what ratio? 

 

And the B6 - can be activating for many.

 

If you benefitted from this, I would recommend trying some of the ingredients, singly.  One at a time, and carefully, gradually - starting with a small amount (some say, what will fit on the tine of a fork) to ensure no reactions.  Shep's suggestion that Glycine might help with your sleep is a good one.  Single ingredients are better than these huge mixed bag cocktails.

 

Like inositol has been known to help many people with blood sugar spikes, anxiety, and sleep.  Chromium also helps with blood sugar spikes.  (this might indicate that blood sugar may be important for you to manage - managing blood sugar is not just for diabetics and hypoglycemics, it's an essential key to health and mood stability - blood sugar spikes can cause anxiety, and drops can cause depression,  or paradoxically, anxiety).  Was there sugar in the drink?

 

Taurine is excellent for racing heart, palpitations.  Others here have benefitted from Tyrosine, but more have reacted to it than benefited.

 

Niacin is excellent for mood stabilisation - enough niacin can stop full blown hallucinations (you won't need that much).

 

On 7/11/2018 at 8:08 AM, Dabhob33 said:

Supplements...   what to do?  Not do?   I’m literally obsessed about it.  And research endlessly.  I think it revs  my symptoms as well.  

 

One school of thought is to not do anything.  Some people think they would've healed faster if they didn't experiment around with various remedies for all of the symptoms that come up during withdrawal, and many are quite vehement about not fiddling with the nervous system - saving the supplements for when you are healed from the drugs, and use them to build up your health.

 

Or, while you are holding - you can try supplements, but please try them one at a time.  Shep's suggestion of glycine is fairly safe (but again, start small - smaller than a single dose, and build up gradually to a half dose or eventually, a full dose of anything), and my suggestion of inositol is helpful, too.  Though since Shep was talking about not adding "brakes,"  perhaps you could try the Niacin route.  Orthomolecular medicine recommends GRAMS of niacin (sometimes up to 20-30 a day, which sounds excessive) for mood control.  I have managed my "bipolar" symptoms using about 1 gram of niacin (inostitol hexanicotinate = non flush, easily absorbed) daily.  But I built up to it.

 

Another school of thought is to get the supplements via diet.  Many of the benefits of nutrition can be found in food.  For example, bone broth (beef or chicken).  You can buy a powder, or make it yourself - it is very nourishing, easy to digest, and chock full of happy amino acids to soothe your system.  And it is food based - so it is safer than taking a capsule which could be too strong.  I love my herb teas - chamomile, passionflower, hibiscus, tulsi, green tea.  Celestial Seasonings has a "Sleepytime tea" that if you use it as a daily ritual, can be part of your sleep hygiene routine. 

 

Which brings us to sleep hygiene...

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/348-what-is-the-sleep-cycle/ 

and

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/53-sleep-problems-that-awful-withdrawal-insomnia/ 

and

TV or Computer use in Evening Can Disrupt Sleep 

 

Are you avoiding devices/screens within 3 hours of your bedtime?  (TV is better than computers & devices, if only because you are further away from the screen - but it can still disrupt sleep).  Are you taking in natural sunlight every day?  Maybe you could benefit from light/dark therapy (a full spectrum lamp for 15 minutes in the morning seems to help mood and sleep issues).  Do you sleep in a quiet, darkened room (no TV in the bedroom, please).  Do you follow a routine, the same every night, to prepare for sleep?

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1470-light-boxes-for-depression-and-sleep-disorders/ 

 

Also - when I read this about researching revving your symptoms - I thought of "health anxiety":
Health Anxiety, Hypochondria, and Obsession with Symptoms 

 

On 7/11/2018 at 7:36 AM, Dabhob33 said:

***i can take at 10am and 10pm.  How does that sound?

 

That sounds excellent.

 

On 7/11/2018 at 7:34 AM, Dabhob33 said:

Sometimes I fall asleep before my last doses and wake up and take them.   No?  Or should I skip them?

 

No you shouldn't skip them.  So the 1 am dosing was an aberration?  It doesn't happen often?

 

On 7/11/2018 at 10:34 PM, Dabhob33 said:

I’m thinking of going to the ER.  

 

Are you still in danger of being pink slipped? 

 

All the ER can do is give you some sort of brake (you're already on 2) and maybe give you some rest - but at what cost?  All of the brakes can be disruptive to the nervous system, and as you come down off of them, can cause disruption and destabilisation in their wake.  Every intervention is like hitting a basketball - you want the basketball to settle and be still, but each time you intervene, make a change, it bounces the basketball again.  (this is an argument for the case of no supplements during withdrawal).

 

If you have to nap in the daytime, then do so.  We had one member/moderator who survived on microsleeps throughout the day.  If you're not working, then sleep when you are sleepy, and find something creative to do when you are not.

 

On 7/12/2018 at 5:35 AM, Dabhob33 said:

I’ve taken doxylamine 2-3 time’s over last few weeks.  

 

Please update your signature.  As Alto says:

 

On 7/12/2018 at 3:50 PM, Altostrata said:

My guess is doxylamine has gone paradoxical on you. If I were you, I'd stop taking it. That could be the reason for your sleep panic.

 

Each time you take the doxy, it amounts to bouncing the basketball again.  Destabilising.

 

On 7/11/2018 at 11:28 PM, Bee5 said:

I am not an expert, but could this be protracted withdrawal from ADs, rather than withdrawal from benzos?

 

I agree with Bee, on this (though I do not agree that a reinstatement is in order).  You are only 6 months out from a bunch of major changes to antidepressants.  This is a small amount of time for your system to totally heal.

 

You effectively did a Cold Turkey (CT) withdrawal, and honestly, they can knock you about for 2-3 years (or longer) after CT.  It's been so long (6-7 months) that I'm not keen on a reinstatement, and definitely not a reinstatement of Pristiq.  If it were me, under severe duress (like a pink slip possibility), I would submit to 5 beads of Effexor, Pristiq's older brother.  Beads - when you have brand name Effexor, it is time released, made up into little beads inside the capsule (generics have different arrangements), 5 beads is sometimes enough to stabilise someone when they have suffered SSRI withdrawal.  But I do not recommend or even suggest this!  I am only saying what I would submit to, if I were faced with a pink slip.  I would ask for a 37.5 mg script of Effexor, open up the capsule, and take 5 beads daily only.  Especially considering how long it has been since you've CT'd.

 

On 7/12/2018 at 3:50 PM, Altostrata said:

Those were suggestions made by @JanCarol . I would prefer she review your lithium intake. I am concerned about it being lopsided, too.

 

 

OKAY, if you are bound and determined to tough it out - no ER visits, no pink slips - we can adjust your lithium.  I'm not suggesting that you taper, no sirree.

 

But you might consider splitting the doses evenly - 337.5 morning and night.  Or, if you are freaked out about splitting the tablets (you will have to get over that when you want to taper), 450 at night and 225 in the morning.  It depends - which symptoms bother you the most:  the anxiety in the daytime? (a case for 450 in the morning) or the lack of sleep at night?  (a case for 450 at night).  Splitting the tablets just means that it's not Extended or Sustained Release anymore.  Since you are dosing 2x daily, that's fine for the half-life of lithium.  Twice daily dosing of immediate release is how I got off the stuff.

 

My first best choice would be 337.5 (half your total daily dose) morning and night, to try and level things out.

But if sleep is the main issue (and it seems to be) - then I would consider putting the 450 at night.  (and then you might complain of more anxiety in the daytime - so - it's up to you).

 

On 7/12/2018 at 9:08 PM, Dabhob33 said:

1145 - Acupuncture 

Feeling agitated, paralyzed on what to do, not do.  Heavy eyes and tight head 

 

This is an indicator that the 450 mg in the morning might be too strong.  Lithium tends to manifest as heaviness, dullness, leaden feelings - and this can be anxiety inducing if you want to get anything done.

 

On 7/13/2018 at 4:53 AM, Dabhob33 said:

But my psychiatrist is a fan of the lithium.  

 

Most psychiatrists are.  I mean, it's the "lightest mineral," it's a "natural substance," what could possibly go wrong?

 

Most psychiatrists have not taken the drug themselves.

 

On 7/13/2018 at 4:34 AM, Altostrata said:

Perhaps you want to discuss reducing the Valium again?

 

It does sound like most of your symptoms are related to the Valium.  

 

I know I've been all over the shop - so I'm going to draw some conclusions.

1.  Maybe no supplement adjustments just yet.

2.  You could try and split the lithium more equally, or put the larger dose at night, to see if that has any benefit, or

3.  You could work on a Valium taper.

4.  You could continue to hold, and learn to tolerate your symptoms using non-drug techniques.

 

Working on #2 or #3 will tell you right away where your troubles are greater - whether it is the lithium or the valium.

 

If an adjustment to the lithium causes no change - then your trouble is the valium.  If decreasing your valium causes no change, then you might be suffering depression of your nervous system by the lithium.
 

Finding out where the trouble lies could be invaluable.  You might have to tolerate a bit of upset (any change can cause upset, as you are learning), but what you will learn from that will be invaluable, and will help us all going forward.

 

If it were me, I would level out the lithium for a month, to see if that has any effect, and then launch into benzo tapering.  Having the lithium at steady state in your system is a good foundation for the benzo tapering, anyway.  You have normal cortisol shifts during the day, and sleep and wake, light and dark, and meals - many things can disrupt your steady state.  So having a steady state of your drugs is a good idea before starting your taper.

I'm still a page behind, but this is wayyyyyy tooo long......I hope you see the Sun today!

 

Edited July 19, 2018 by JanCarol

[JanCarol]

On 7/14/2018 at 9:49 PM, Dabhob33 said:

take in stool sample (been having chills and diarrhea for over a week)

 

What was the result of this?

Unfortunately, chills and digestive distress are common in antidepressant withdrawal - so if you come up with something conclusive, it is important for us to know.

 

Vital:  if you are having diarrhea, it is super duper important to stay hydrated - drinking water, taking electrolytes (like Pedialyte, Gatorade, or coconut water with a little himalayan salt).  Lithium wreaks havoc with your hydration system, and having diarrhea makes this a double whammy.

 

Staying hydrated also might mean avoiding dehydrating beverages like coffee (anything with caffeine), or sodas (the chemical cocktail in a soda), or artificial sweeteners.

 

On 7/18/2018 at 4:48 AM, Dabhob33 said:

Tylenol due to my migraines.   

 

Migraines are another reason to stay hydrated.  I reckon, with the amount of lithium you are on, you cannot drink too much water.  Imagine it, as a salt, pulling all the moisture from your muscles, organs, and cells.  At your dose, it would take 30 litres or more of water daily to be equivalent to the lithium in natural lithium water.  So - the 6-8 litres recommended by most health practitioners sounds much more reasonable, eh?

 

And perhaps that amount of hydration (it's hard, I know - I can only get in about 4 litres at best) will stave off the headaches, too.

 

On 7/17/2018 at 11:00 PM, Dabhob33 said:

*I'm thinking the taper from the morning valium.  

 

Okay!

 

On 7/15/2018 at 4:52 AM, Dabhob33 said:

 

Do I take my evening meds at scheduled times?   9pm valium and 10pm Lithium.

 

Your Benzo thread suggests  8 pm valium and 10 pm lithium.  

 

On 7/16/2018 at 6:20 AM, Dabhob33 said:

Answering Shep’s question re my lithium level.   I just had it taken last week.   I’m at .62 (range of .6-1.2).   

 

That is good news.  Just because you are at the bottom of the fictional "therapeutic range," do not let your Doctor increase it.  So are you on 900 mg or 675 mg daily?  I saw somewhere where you asked "take the whole 900 mg once a day"? I meant to say NO, you need 2x daily dosing in order to get off the drug - but that post got lost...

 

You may have been dehydrated when you got your lithium test before when you were above the top of the "therapeutic range."

 

On 7/18/2018 at 6:31 AM, Dabhob33 said:

It seems I’m short of breath.   Always tired.  I wake in a panic after drifting off.   It shows that Valium and lithium can cause shortness of breath.   Do you think this could be what’s causing they sleep issues.   Gasping for air bc shortness of breath.  

 

I know that lithium took my wind away.  I got winded just trying to jog from one end of the gym to the other.  Lithium degraded my thyroid (eventually had to have it removed, due to large unhealthy goitre) making energy a huge issue.  Have you had your thyroid tested?  Also - when they test for serum lithium, are they also testing your kidney and liver function?  These are vital tests for anyone taking lithium:  thyroid, kidney, liver.

 

Valium will increase tiredness, which might feel similar.

 

As far as sleep issues - they kept trying to tell me "sleep apnea" but I've come to the conclusion that it's a "sleep paralysis" issue (for me).  Have you had any sleep studies done?  Did they do that at the Sleep Clinic at Cleveland Clinic?  Anymore, they don't have to do the intrusive EEG cap, they can learn a lot with a wrist monitor that you take home.  Then, if it's warranted, they can book you in for the more intrusive sleep study.

 

From your signature:

Quote

Take doxylamine sporadically (between 12mg and 25mg).  Last taken on 7/5/18.  Don’t plan on continuing to take.  

I'm in Australia.  The rest of the world reads that date as 7th of May.  Americans read it as 5th July.  Please spell out the month (or an abbreviation of it) in your signature so that all the mods around the world can read it correctly.  Sorry to be pedantic, but it makes your signature readable by anyone in any country.

[Dabhob33]

7/18/18

12 - woke

330 - woke - dozed - up for the day 

8 - breakfast -valium 5mg /eye drops / green smoothie / omega 3 / probiotics

10 -  450mg Lithium

1030 - dropped Kids at inlaws.  Very depressed.   Feel slow.   Heavy headed.  

11 - sauna 20/5

1145 - acupuncture 

12 - lunch  

3 - heavy head and depressed.  Dozed off and panic.  Unbearable depression. 

630 - charlie finish baseball game - won / magnesium calm drink 

8 - 5mg Valium

10 - lithium 225mg

1030 - sleep

7/19/18

1130 - woke 

230 - woke - up for the night.  Choppiness and Lack of sleep has me really concerned.  

[Dabhob33]

On 7/19/2018 at 1:49 AM, JanCarol said:

 

What was the result of this?

Unfortunately, chills and digestive distress are common in antidepressant withdrawal - so if you come up with something conclusive, it is important for us to know.

 

Vital:  if you are having diarrhea, it is super duper important to stay hydrated - drinking water, taking electrolytes (like Pedialyte, Gatorade, or coconut water with a little himalayan salt).  Lithium wreaks havoc with your hydration system, and having diarrhea makes this a double whammy.

 

Staying hydrated also might mean avoiding dehydrating beverages like coffee (anything with caffeine), or sodas (the chemical cocktail in a soda), or artificial sweeteners.

 

 

Migraines are another reason to stay hydrated.  I reckon, with the amount of lithium you are on, you cannot drink too much water.  Imagine it, as a salt, pulling all the moisture from your muscles, organs, and cells.  At your dose, it would take 30 litres or more of water daily to be equivalent to the lithium in natural lithium water.  So - the 6-8 litres recommended by most health practitioners sounds much more reasonable, eh?

 

And perhaps that amount of hydration (it's hard, I know - I can only get in about 4 litres at best) will stave off the headaches, too.

 

 

Okay!

 

 

Your Benzo thread suggests  8 pm valium and 10 pm lithium.  

 

 

That is good news.  Just because you are at the bottom of the fictional "therapeutic range," do not let your Doctor increase it.  So are you on 900 mg or 675 mg daily?  I saw somewhere where you asked "take the whole 900 mg once a day"? I meant to say NO, you need 2x daily dosing in order to get off the drug - but that post got lost...

 

You may have been dehydrated when you got your lithium test before when you were above the top of the "therapeutic range."

 

 

I know that lithium took my wind away.  I got winded just trying to jog from one end of the gym to the other.  Lithium degraded my thyroid (eventually had to have it removed, due to large unhealthy goitre) making energy a huge issue.  Have you had your thyroid tested?  Also - when they test for serum lithium, are they also testing your kidney and liver function?  These are vital tests for anyone taking lithium:  thyroid, kidney, liver.

 

Valium will increase tiredness, which might feel similar.

 

As far as sleep issues - they kept trying to tell me "sleep apnea" but I've come to the conclusion that it's a "sleep paralysis" issue (for me).  Have you had any sleep studies done?  Did they do that at the Sleep Clinic at Cleveland Clinic?  Anymore, they don't have to do the intrusive EEG cap, they can learn a lot with a wrist monitor that you take home.  Then, if it's warranted, they can book you in for the more intrusive sleep study.

 

From your signature:

I'm in Australia.  The rest of the world reads that date as 7th of May.  Americans read it as 5th July.  Please spell out the month (or an abbreviation of it) in your signature so that all the mods around the world can read it correctly.  Sorry to be pedantic, but it makes your signature readable by anyone in any country.

Tests for diarrhea came back negative.   I drink coconut water and Gatorade.   Overall, I drink between 2-3 liters of water a day. 

[Dabhob33]

7/19/18

1130 - woke 

230 - woke - up for the night

7 - extremely anxious ahead of my psychiatrist appt.  not sure what to do.  Paralyzed. 

8 - breakfast -valium 5mg /eye drops / green smoothie / omega 3 / probiotics

10 -  450mg Lithium

1030 - psychiatrist appt

Heavy head and feel doomed

11 - sauna 20 mins

12 - lunch  

6 - Charlie’s baseball game - won 6-3

630 - 5mg Valium

10 - lithium 225mg

945 - sleep

12 - woke 

7/20/18

630 - woke

[Altostrata]

Why do you feel anxious before your psychiatrist appointment?

 

Do you have sleep apnea?

[Dabhob33]

Not sure why anxious.  Always nervous with docs.  

 

I do

habe apnea.   Wear custom mouth  piece at night.  Juts lower jaw forward and keeps me from snoring.   

 

Have another home Sleep study set for end of August.   

[Dabhob33]

7/20/18

630 - woke - heavy head. 

8 - breakfast -valium 5mg /eye drops / green smoothie / omega 3 / probiotics

10 -  450mg Lithium

Laid on couch for good part of morning.  Heavy head

12 - lunch 

2 - took Syd to orthodontist appt

Head pressure is huge

6 - Charlie’s baseball game.  Won championship 5-3.  

630 - 5mg Valium

10 - lithium 225mg

11 - sleep

7/21/18

6 - woke

Laid in bed until 930

sore throat 

[Altostrata]

I am wondering what role your sleep apnea plays in your sleep pattern. Please see

 

[Dabhob33]

29 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

I am wondering what role your sleep apnea plays in your sleep pattern. Please see

 

Not sure if apnea has anything to do with sleep issues, particularly the naps.   I don’t even fall asleep and I feel panic.  Even laying on my side or stomach.  

 

I wear a mouth appliance that juts my jaw out alleviating the snoring.   So we’re good there.  Don’t think apnea is the culprit.