veryamazing: what controls wakefulness/sleep rest/relaxation homoeostasis?

[veryamazing]

Admin note: link to benzo forum thread - Veryamazing: Does the brain heal from AD usage while on benzos?

 

Hi,

 

I have a big problem that I couldn't solve for 5 months and it's just getting worse and worse...

 

I was at the psychiatry and got quetiapine/seroquel for sleep and took it for about 7 days or so and then stopped....

 

I had a severe reaction to it but didn't think that it was the medication causing it at first as I got told these drugs are perfectly safe.... I also took mirtazapine there a few times there and a few days before which I didn't tolerate either...

 

Anyway I developed something called akathisia... where I was restlest 24/7...

 

The biggest problem though is that my sleep/rest/wakefulness/relaxation switch completely broke from there on...

 

Basically I was for 10 days at the psychiatry and sleep just didn't happen... it was like I was aware of my sleep or lying there but not falling asleep but neither being totally awake... but I just wouldn't sleep... or maybe dream for like a few hours or something,,,

 

When I discharged myself this would go on but become even more extreme... that's when the akathisia really started and the homeostatic broke switch was totally broken to this point...

 

It's been 5 months btw since I took my last dose of any of the medication... so it all started around octobre. (I maybe had 15 tablets mirtazapine in total and 7 Tablets Quetiapine & quit cold turkey)

 

I already had chronic fatigue syndrome and I was already pretty much done for the day when I'd just get 3 or 4 hours of sleep... man...

 

I haven't slept for an entire month... I thought how is this even possible... i was lying in bed and I was "aware" or my brain was awake all the time... I was just lying there and nothing happened... I would lie in bed the whole night and when morning came... I just got out of bed... ate breakfast & went crazy.... as you'd imagine I'd become completely psychotic after a while...

 

Well... I started using baclofen... finally slept every second night kind of... or at least had some dreams...

 

I couldn't understand how my body could keep me so awake... especially when I've had been experiencing severe fatigue before... like I couldn't understand...

 

Anyway... I was extremely suicidal at this point...

 

As you can imagine my body would spend all this energy... but there was no way to recuperate...

 

After a month or two I could suddenly "sleep" every night... but it wasn't the kind of of homeostatic sleep where you go to bed and you wake up in the morning and feel "alright, another day...." it was more "sleep" because of complete exhaustion... I would fall into a kind of coma mixed with dreams and stuff but most likely no deep sleep stages whatsoever.... like I was still kind of aware of being asleep or my brain was just "on" somehow...

There are no words to describe how you feel after a month of not sleeping... you basically go completely psychotic but you kind of adjust to being that way...

If you'd see me somewhere or if you'd talk to me you wouldn't notice anything wrong about me...

 

Anyway... I could "sleep" at night or "lie in a coma" with some dreams... but there was no homeostasis... and my brain was still extremely awake during the day...

Before that I needed to take lots of naps during the day which recharged my energy so I could do stuff again... That completely dissapeared... I forgot what it felt like to recharge...

 

I tried to lie down after doing something and I would just lie there with my brain wide awake... not getting into deeper relaxation in order to recharge...

Or when I would get my "sleep"... and say instead of laying there for 8 hours I layed there for 4 hours... it wasn't like I could make up for that in any way... I would have something to eat... and then later in the day... I would want to "catch" with a nap & relaxation for the "sleep loss"... but that wouldn't happen...

 

I would just lie there with my brain spending more and more energy instead of giving me some rest...

 

The homeostasis between rest/relax/sleep/wake/activity/etc.... was simply broken... my brain would alwaays spend more energy/waste energy just like that... and I couldn't catch up...

 

Well I upped my dosage of baclofen & later changed to a benzodiazepine for sleep but that didn't help much either....

 

Whenever I'd do something... and I'd try to recuperate... nothing would happen except my brain spending more energy than I'm making...

 

So how did this all progress???

 

I started "sleeping" every day... but it was not homeostatic... my awareness gradually started to diminish over a period of time... and I mean DRAMATICALLY....

 

I was probably on of the most aware people I know in my environment.. I would notice everything and anything around me and I'd feel every sensation in my body & was attentive to everybodies needs around me if I felt something was "off".... like I was very present naturally without doing anything...

 

Well, that gradually changed...

 

After being "kept" awake unnaturally for so long... that space or awareness started to drastically reduce... I wouldn't know when my blood sugar dropped... I've lost social intelligence and any kind of inhibition...in a negative way.. I wouldn't care about my appearance... Wouldn't care about making jokes or stupid comments... couldn't make any connections... basically anything that requires awareness... went down the toilet...

 

When I use the laptop... it's like I am only aware of the laptop and me... instead of everything else that is going on in that room... (maybe that's how most people feel, idk, lol.)

Or if I have a conversation in a group... I'd only be able to concentrate on one conversation at the time... if there was more going on... I would almost feel like going unconscious....

 

So my body kept me awake... but instead I'm only 1/4 conscious than normal... it continues up to this point... where I'm simply losing more and more energy than I'm making because the homeostasis is broken....

The last few months I've been lying in bed more... I'd sleep or lie there for 11-12 hours instead of 8-10... because completely exhausted... and now I'm also able to do naps & close my eyes... but again... it's because I've lost so much energy so quickly that my body is just completely exhausted... when I do naps at this point I feel like I'm not even aware or almost unconscious... yet still kind of awake... completely different, than a normal nap... where you just get up and everything is normal again... my "naps" feel psychotic because I'm barely aware and everything feels far away...

 

Like I'm being kept aware/Awake at a threshold that shouldn't actually be possible... the body should actually seek homeostasis & keep me in a state where I'm lying in bed completely exhausted & let me sleep/relax but have "normal" awareness of things if you know what I mean...

 

Instead I'm awake with 1/4 of my awareness where I feel extremely stupid compared to how I was before because most stuff just doesn't register... it's quite a psychotic state to be in but nobody notices...

It gets worse and worse and I'm losing energy at a rate of 10% a week... it's been like that for 5 months... it just got worse while my function within that state got better because I adapted to this state... but seriously... I have no idea how to reverse this... I just realize that the more time passes the more awareness I seem to lose... where people talk and I can't even proccess anything or remember something because I'm barely aware & being kept awake with so little energy that it's completely absurd...

 

My brain just wastes away energy because something is broken... I'm losing more than I'm making and it is very noticable week after week... that there's no homeostasis which keeps things in balance..

 

I feel like in a life or death situation every day I wake up because things deteriorate so quickly at this point and I always fear a point of no return...

 

The biggest problem is that it's turned my life upside down completely... but at the same time it is mostly invisible to other people... like "what do you mean you are less aware or you're losing awareness"...

Again my body keeps me awake at a threshold you couldn't be awake at with normal homeostatic control... For me... every day feels like I haven't slept in 10 days or something... I've been saying that 2 months ago... now I feel it's probably more like 20? You're completely and utterly exhausted and you're barely able to comprehend anything yet at the same time you're awake...

Do you have any idea on how to reverse this? It's runining my life like I couldn't have ever imagined.

 

I guess I've spent all todays energy in writing this post.... hope somebody can help me out...

 

 it's been 5 months since I took the last dose... and that problem hasn't left me & it's driving me insane nearly every minute of the day since I haven't found a simple solution to it...

Edited July 10, 2019 by Shep
added link to benzo forum thread

[Altostrata]

Welcome, very.

 

Some people are extremely sensitive to psychiatric drugs and have bad reactions very shortly after starting them. You appear to be one of those people.

 

The sleeplessness is very familiar to us here. It is common in withdrawal syndrome. You have experienced as a consequence of severe adverse reactions.

 

The healing pattern is the same: Very gradual, almost imperceptible progress. It sounds like you have seen some of this yourself, from sleeplessness to poor sleep to what you call "non-homeostatic" sleep.

 

You are correct in that the homeostasis has been perturbed by the drug reaction. However, the nervous system is very adaptable and tends to return to factory-installed settings, which you will experience as healing. Keep as calm as possible and do what you can to take care of yourself with good, fresh food and regular sleep hours.

 

You may be interested in Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems

 

What is your current daily symptom pattern? Are you taking any other drugs?

[ChessieCat]

Hi veryamazing and welcome from me too,

 

We ask all members to create a drug signature.  This appears below every post you make.  Please update it whenever you make a change.  This is the preferred format which makes it easier for us to see your drug history at a glance:

 

A request: Would you summarize your history in a signature - ALL drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly?

• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 

• Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.
• Link to Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

This is your own Intro topic where you can ask questions and journal your progress.  We suggest that members visit each others Intro topics so that can support and encourage each other.

[veryamazing]

Hi,

 

thanks a lot for chiming in

On 24.2.2018 at 8:23 AM, Altostrata said:

 

 

The healing pattern is the same: Very gradual, almost imperceptible progress. It sounds like you have seen some of this yourself, from sleeplessness to poor sleep to what you call "non-homeostatic" sleep.

 

Keep as calm as possible and do what you can to take care of yourself with good, fresh food and regular sleep hours.

 

What is your current daily symptom pattern? Are you taking any other drugs?

 

The thing is that there was no progress. I did not went from sleeplessness, to poor sleep, to non-homeostatic sleep. It was quite the opposite... I just got more and more exhausted in the process of being kept "awake" all the time which gave me some "poor non-sleep" & "non-homeostatic" sleep. My energy levels before this were already extremely low so that explains the downfall. It's not as much a sleep problem as it's a "brain part being awake" at an improper thresold that wouldn't be possible naturally.

 

I wish there would be an explanation regarding what exactly is going on and how to fix it...

 

I am taking flurazepam, a long acting benzo. It helps me to not go totally insane in this situation but I am planning to taper. It doesn't help much with the "brain awake" feeling though...

 

Thanks a lot for the advice. I'd love to have you comment once more..

[ChessieCat]

Thank you for creating your drug signature.  Please add years to the dates.  In the future, just having the date with no year, it will not make sense.  Please remember to update it whenever you make a change so that it remains current and we can see your drug details at a glance.  Thank you.

 

I'm going to give you lots of links to check out.  Please don't feel overwhelmed, just work your way through them one at a time as you feel able.

 

SA recommends tapering by no more than 10% of the previous dose followed by a hold at that dose for about 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.  This is because psychiatric drugs create a physiological dependence, not physical like caffeine or nicotine.

 

Patience is needed to get off these drugs.  We suggest throwing out the calendar and listening to your body and your symptoms.  If after 4 weeks you don't feel stable or life circumstances are a bit more stressful than usual (for example the Christmas period, winter time, or job change) it is better to stay at that dose for a bit longer until things settle down.

 

Before you begin tapering what you need to know

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

 

Brain Remodelling

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

Keep Notes on Paper

 

Rate Symptoms Daily to Check Patterns and Progress

Tapering Calculator

 

It is best to make only 1 change at a time.  It is also better not to start taking a complex vitamin because if you experience issues you will not know what exactly is causing it.  B vitamins can be stimulating especially B6.  hypersensitive-to-b-vitamin-or-b-vitamin-complex  If trying anything new, start with a small amount to see how you react and build up to the recommended amount.  The only supplements which SA recommends are Magnesium and Omega-3 Fish Oil.  Try a small amount one at a time to see how you react.

 

Even with a careful and slow taper you will most likely experience times of discomfort.  It is helpful to learn and use Non-drug techniques to cope

 

There are many existing topics and discussions on this site.  You can use the site search function at the top right, or use a search engine and include survivingantidepressants.org in your search string.

 

As I said, lots of information, but I really want you to have what you need to help with your taper.

[veryamazing]

Thanks.. I have added years and bought fish oil.

 

Can't do much with the tapering info as I don't take any antidepressant now..

 

Any help with my current situation?

 

I feel like I'm dying from my brain inappropriately keeping me awake all day... I can't handle another day..

 

Cam somebody explain the mechamism?

[veryamazing]

It's been 5 months since it started but quetiapine blew a fuse in my brain... it's been awake 24/7 since then. I can't homeostatically relax/sleep/recuperate... my energy gets wasted without me having to do anything...

My body simply doesn't get it back... there is no feedback loop or system to balance things out... every single day for about 5 months I woke up with less energy than the day before... and I couldn't do anything during the day to gain energy back or anything like that... becuase just trying to relax and take a nap my brain would be hyperexcited and awake... I am exhausted beyond exhausted, but some brain part just doesn't shut off...

 

Anybody knows a mechanism as to why this is happening? This has nothing to do with insomnia, it's beyond anything called insomnia as it's just inappropriate wakefulness... my brain keeps me awake at a thresold that would be impossible naturally...I feel like I haven't slept for 10 days every single day. I'm craving to just fall into bed and sleep for 3 days straight to just have the feeling of "normal consciousness" back... instead my brain keeps me awake...

 

Why would it do that... what do these drugs do to the receptors that does something like that... It makes no sense. Beyond comprehension.

[ChessieCat]

14 hours ago, veryamazing said:

Can't do much with the tapering info as I don't take any antidepressant now..

 

Sorry.  I got carried away.  I'm so used to providing the information to members who are tapering.

 

You might find this topic helpful.  What is Happening in Your Brain  The following is in the Post #1:

 

"Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are [...] to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were [...] to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and [...] to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while [...] is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made. 
And just like the Twin Towers- it's possible - but the building is a major effort -and it takes a good year or more sometimes."

[ChessieCat]

These topics might help:

 

what-is-the-sleep-cycle

 

methods-to-reset-a-messed-up-sleeping-pattern

 

waking-with-panic-or-anxiety-managing-cortisol-spikes

[veryamazing]

Hi,

 

this doesn't solve the problem with wakefulness though  And it's been 5 months... And why do my posts come back to my introduction topic. I feel like nobody will ever read it.

 

I can't handle another day. It's extremely difficult. Only took the drug for 7 days..

[ChessieCat]

Even though this topic doesn't answer your question directly if you read Post #1 you will see how these drugs and getting off them can affect certain functions:  What is Happening in Your Brain

 

15 minutes ago, veryamazing said:

Only took the drug for 7 days..

 

Yes, you took quetiapine for 7 days - anti-psychotic drug

 

You then took baclofen - It is used as a central nervous system depressant and skeletal muscle relaxant.

 

And you are currently taking flurazepam - a benzodiazepine derivative. It possesses anxiolytic, anticonvulsant, hypnotic, sedative and skeletal muscle relaxant properties. It produces a metabolite with a long half-life, which may stay in the bloodstream for days.

 

It is had to say whether it is being caused by the quetiapine or from going off it, going or or going off baclofen, or from being on flurazepam.

 

This site has lots of information.  However, we don't have all the answers.  This is just a thought, it may be that you are experiencing cortisol spikes but the flurazepam is dampening the physical reaction.  As I said just a hypothesis.  We don't know what is causing it.

[veryamazing]

Yes, but quetiapine caused the problem from the beginning. My cortisol reserves are pretty much gone by now.

[Rabe]

 

How can I forget my clonazepam!!!  But I did....again!  Wondered if Id taken it last night and awake now with ears ringing and headache knowing this will be awful  before this evening.  Please...any suggestions?  Things are challenging enuf with electrolyte issues and trying to stay stable without doing this.  Had it in my hand and went to eat some banana with it and don't remember taking it. But thot I must have!  Wonder if I will ever get body mind and feelings back!!!

Thank you for your help!!!

 

 

 

 

 

[LilBit]

I am glad I found this.   I feel like this describes EXACTLY what I am going through after my ridiculous drug history, and it has really intensified over the past week.  I am pretty scared and not sure what to do at this point but feel like I have tried everything.

[veryamazing]

Hi,

 

 

it's been almost 2 years ct and the gradual reduction in awareness is still happening.

 

Will this fix itself at some point?

 

[ChessieCat]

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

[veryamazing]

Is healing also taking place with ct after short time use?

[Gridley]

3 hours ago, veryamazing said:

Is healing also taking place with ct after short time use?

 

Yes, just as it does after longer term use.  The brain and central nervous system are working to regain homeostasis.  Unfortunately, it's a slow and often frustrating process, one whose duration is impossible to predict.  But the brain has a remarkable ability to heal itself, known as neuroplasticity.

 

Healing from antidepressants: The power of neuroplasticity video (7.5 minutes)

 

Patterns of Recovery

 

[veryamazing]

Thanks but it Drives me nuts that I can't find anybody having similar issues.

[ChessieCat]

I've moved your new topic to an existing topic:  derealization-or-depersonalization-dr-and-dp

 

There are many existing topics on SA and we like to keep similar information together so it is easier for members to find.  You can either use the site search function, or use google and add survivingantidepressants.org to the search term.

 

[veryamazing]

Could Somebody chime in please?

I have not seen anybody with my Symptoms. I've just 22 months of continuous reduction in awareness. It started with my brain running with 20x the Vorlage and now I'm left with this.

Didn't Care Last year as I could compensate well but now it doesn't feel funny anymore as everything I do is affected. I had No waves or Windows with this particular Symptom & the acute other ones & known symptoms went away after 6 months.

I'm scared as I have no Idea when & how the Recovery from this is going to be..

[veryamazing]

4 hours ago, veryamazing said:

Could Somebody chime in please?

I have not seen anybody with my Symptoms. I've just 22 months of continuous reduction in awareness. It started with my brain running with 20x the Vorlage and now I'm left with this.

Didn't Care Last year as I could compensate well but now it doesn't feel funny anymore as everything I do is affected. I had No waves or Windows with this particular Symptom & the acute other ones & known symptoms went away after 6 months.

I'm scared as I have no Idea when & how the Recovery from this is going to be..

I mean voltage

[veryamazing]

On 7/17/2019 at 2:33 PM, veryamazing said:

 

Anything?

[Tooawake]

Is this Forum Kind of dead?

Seems Like there was way more Activity years ago.

[Jen1234]

Hi,

 

I have your symptoms. I can’t feel myself sleep. if I am sleeping it’s not restorative because I feel dreadful the next day. It’s been a year for me. No progress. No waves. No windows. Exactly the same. It’s horrific and I fear I might be like this for a very long time. I’m sorry you are dealing with this too. I wish I could offer advice but nothing is working for me. Just know you’re not alone.