Early-morning waking - managing the morning cortisol spike

[Petunia]

 i found that on mornings when i was awake at the time the old cortisol began its uptick (for me, around 4am), i suffered a lot less under it than the mornings i actually was asleep and the cortisol woke me up and i woke into it. i found that the mix of the abrupt wake-up and the cortisol activation was terrifying.

 

During the winter of 2013 I was often awake, out and about when the cortisol struck. (this is before I understood what was going on)  A few mornings a week I would have to get up early to take my daughter to the train station.  I hated waking up anyway, no matter what the time, I still do.  It means the end of the relief which sleeping brings.  I remember one morning in particular, my alarm went off and I woke up, it was still dark and I remember getting out of bed, into the cold air and feeling an incredible sense of gratitude because I was feeling 'normal'.  I was having that 'normal' morning resistance to getting up, not wanting to leave the warmth of my bed, struggling to switch my brain to a waking state before its really ready.

 

I noticed that the usual agoraphobia, and resistance to leaving the house seemed to have miraculously disappeared and going outside and getting in the car was feeling oddly easy.  I was chatting to my daughter on the way, just like I used to do.  In my mind I started planning to go and get an early breakfast and coffee out, after I had dropped her off, it had been a long time since I'd been able to do anything like that.

 

But as I turned out of the train station, the sun came up over the horizon, and suddenly I was drenched in sweat, my body became tense, I couldn't breathe and half my brain function shut down.  The scenery around me took on an ominous appearance and what remained of my thought processes became fixated on trying to figure out where the danger was coming from.  All thoughts of breakfast disappeared, my stomach had become a swirling mass of nauseating surges anyway and all my attention became focused on getting home to safely as fast as possible.  Suddenly, the light, movement of cars, sounds and the cold air had become overwhelming, I was no longer able to tolerate any kind of information coming in through my senses and I needed to get home to the controlled environment of my bedroom.

 

For me, being woken by the cortisol surge has always been terrifying, but being out when it hits is worse.  As Dave suggests, probably the best way to reduce some of the terror is to be awake and somewhat psychologically prepared before it hits.  But I'm not sure if I would ever set my alarm and wake up before I absolutely had to, for me, my priority has always been trying to stay asleep as long as possible, trying to avoid the inevitable awfulness of the experience of being awake in all its varied levels of intensity.

 

With the help of magnesium, taurine and breathing techniques, I've taught myself how to calm down and shut off the racing thoughts and fall back to sleep after the earliest wake-ups, which begin around 5am these days.

 

I've recovered quite a lot over the last year and my mornings are nowhere near as bad as they were, but I would still rather be asleep than awake, especially in the mornings when its the worst, so I try and avoid waking up for as long as possible.

 

But for someone who has to get up anyway, I would certainly consider setting a gentle alarm and trying to be prepared.

[UselessSpork]

Yep. I used to hate going to sleep because of that. I even tried to stay up once to see if I could hold on to feeling normal into the next day.

Sleep definitely changes the brain, i have heard of people depriving themselves of sleep to avoid the depression from returning. and i have heard it can actually work, but you have to sleep eventually... and its probably not the most healthy thing. how did you turn out staying up? did you feel normal the next day? i couldnt really test this as my symptoms are never stable.. somedays i wake up and feel fine for most of the day otherdays i wake up feeling sh*tty.

[Addax]

Since I was already awake I didn't have that anxious jolt of fear and dread at 4am, so there was that. i think the onset of the symptoms just seemed more gradual, so it felt as if they were milder even though they may not actually have been. I was in such a bad state at the time it's honestly hard to say. I didn't try it again, so I must not have thought it made enough of a difference.

[UselessSpork]

Ahh i see. Man i hate that though, waking up and saying to myself "great.. im awake now im afraid of feeling like **** again" anticipatory anxiety is the absolute worst, it keeps you worried all the damn time. even if you feel fine... its still there in the back of your mind, just worrying about how your mood might change within the next hour. at least thats how it is for me. If i could predict how im going to feel i wouldn't have this stupid anticipatory anxiety, why oh why does my brain have to be so unpredictable.

[ten0275]

 

But for someone who has to get up anyway, I would certainly consider setting a gentle alarm and trying to be prepared.

 

casio makes a watch that vibrates on your wrist - it is what i utilize. it's fairly gentle. it vibrates more mildly than a mobile phone does. in fact, the reviews claimed that deep-sleepers weren't always awakened by it. that's when i said "perfect! sold!" ha ha. it took me awhile to get used to wearing a watch to bed - especially because this particular casio is a "g-shock" model meant to survive something along the lines of an enemy invasion. so it is rather bulky. but i don't even notice it anymore.

 

that's how i arise. 0345hrs, "buzzzz, buzzzz, buzzzz..." and off i go.

 

if i am in a period where i am particularly sensitive to cortisol, i will feel it spike as i am awake. but i am waiting for it and aware of it and it doesn't have nearly the mojo it had when it woke me out of sleep.

 

dave

[ten0275]

 

I am picturing cortisol as a viper that lays coiled until pre-dawn...

 

aw crap, WC!

 

and now my buzzing watch is the damn thing hissing at me thanks for the imagery! i'll think of you tomorrow @ 0345hrs when the viper is upon me!

 

dave

[antidepressantsNoMore]

TO LOWER/CONTROL CORTISOL , I TAKE:

 

2-3 GRAMS VITAMIN C

MAGNESIUM OIL OR 750 MG MAGNESIUM

 

AS SOON AS I WAKE UP, IT HELPS A LOT

[LoveandLight]

No was waking up so much in a panic way before pre dawn..12,2,3 and was in a right panic..

[antidepressantsNoMore]

7-KETO DHEA , it is non-hormonal and lowers cortisol

 

It works, I've tried it, but is expensive. Again it does not work like DHEA which increases estrogen. This works soley on lowering cortisol levels and associated with better mood and weight loss. However, everyone responds differently to supplements.

[Petunia]

I've also read that vitamin C can lower cortisol, but I don't know if its true.  If you wanted to try if for morning cortisol, you would need to take it in the morning I think.  I take 1000mg at night and for a while I was taking 1000mg in the morning also, but it didn't seem to make much difference, so I stopped.  Perhaps you have to take a higher dose for it to have an effect, I don't know. 

 

If you decide to try it, do let us know if it helps.

[antidepressantsNoMore]

I've also read that vitamin C can lower cortisol, but I don't know if its true.  If you wanted to try if for morning cortisol, you would need to take it in the morning I think.  I take 1000mg at night and for a while I was taking 1000mg in the morning also, but it didn't seem to make much difference, so I stopped.  Perhaps you have to take a higher dose for it to have an effect, I don't know. 

 

If you decide to try it, do let us know if it helps.

 

Yeah 1,000 mg is nothing. I take 3,000 mg vitamin C in the mornings and it has lowered cortisol significantly. My anxiety/peace of mind is better throughout the morning and most of the day.

[Meimeiquest]

Vitamin C at the very least supports the adrenals while they are working so hard. I take 1000mg twice daily.

[Petunia]

 I take 3,000 mg vitamin C in the mornings and it has lowered cortisol significantly. My anxiety/peace of mind is better throughout the morning and most of the day.

 

 

How long does it take before it starts 'working'?  What time to you usually take it?

 

Is it like you wake up with all the symptoms of high cortisol, you take 3000mg vitamin c and then X amount of time later you notice a significant decrease in those particular symptoms?

[antidepressantsNoMore]

 

 I take 3,000 mg vitamin C in the mornings and it has lowered cortisol significantly. My anxiety/peace of mind is better throughout the morning and most of the day.

 

 

How long does it take before it starts 'working'?  What time to you usually take it?

 

Is it like you wake up with all the symptoms of high cortisol, you take 3000mg vitamin c and then X amount of time later you notice a significant decrease in those particular symptoms?

 

 

Yeah. I'm starting to come towards the end of w/d. I take 3000 mg vitamin C every morning. I take it in powder form (asorbic acid) and I noticed a huge improvement in mood, stress reduction, anxiety and paranoia. I think since I overanalyze things, I put a lot of stress on my mind. Vitamin C elevates about 70-90 percent of that stress. I think more clearly and rationally. I don't get as upset as I used to either hence the mood improvement. And this is all due to Vitamin C and magnesium. My favorite combo for stress, anxiety, worry etc.

 

The first two weeks of doing this, I experienced loose stools and diarrahea but I stuck with it and I'm glad I did, because I can actually "feel" it working. Sometimes, I do have some bloating but the benefits outweigh the negative side effects so I'm going to stick with it for at least another few months maybe even longer.

[Petunia]

Thanks for replying aNM.  I decided to try the high dose vitamin C and it seems to have helped.  At first I was hesitant because after doing some research I learned that most vitamin c supplements are synthetic, not natural but instead ascorbic acid, which isn't actually vitamin c.  I had gone ahead and ordered some naturally sourced vitamin c supplements.

 

But last night/this morning I took 3000mg of the synthetic kind, which is all  I have at the moment, and this morning's cortisol/anxiety has been significantly less than what it usually is.  The difference is enough that I know its not placebo or my imagination.  I usually have a very unpleasant physical sensation in my gut which lasts for hours, starting from when I wake up until some time in the afternoon.  But its not there.  The adrenaline surges I usually get were very mild compared to what its normally like.

 

This is what I did.  Whenever I woke up in the night, I took a 1000mg tablet.  I'm not sure but I think I took them at about 2am, 5am and 7am.

 

My body is feeling much more relaxed than it usually does this time of the day, this is the best result I've had so far from trying anything, finally, something has helped

[Addax]

Ok. Wow! Vitamin C. Years ago I'd heard of taking vitamin C to counter the increase in cortisol after a strenuous workout. In fact, I've done it a couple times myself. I'm adding vitamin C after my next decrease.

[antidepressantsNoMore]

Thanks for replying aNM.  I decided to try the high dose vitamin C and it seems to have helped.  At first I was hesitant because after doing some research I learned that most vitamin c supplements are synthetic, not natural but instead ascorbic acid, which isn't actually vitamin c.  I had gone ahead and ordered some naturally sourced vitamin c supplements.

 

But last night/this morning I took 3000mg of the synthetic kind, which is all  I have at the moment, and this morning's cortisol/anxiety has been significantly less than what it usually is.  The difference is enough that I know its not placebo or my imagination.  I usually have a very unpleasant physical sensation in my gut which lasts for hours, starting from when I wake up until some time in the afternoon.  But its not there.  The adrenaline surges I usually get were very mild compared to what its normally like.

 

This is what I did.  Whenever I woke up in the night, I took a 1000mg tablet.  I'm not sure but I think I took them at about 2am, 5am and 7am.

 

My body is feeling much more relaxed than it usually does this time of the day, this is the best result I've had so far from trying anything, finally, something has helped

 

See, I told you. Yeah your adrenaline isn't as high either because of it. Vitamin C is a seriously good cortisol blocker. It is very much overlooked. I just take my dose in the morning. 3,000 mg. Sometimes I take a higher dose. It last quite a while. Def. worth the price.

[Petunia]

I'm finding I need to take the vitamin C about every 3 hours for it to continue 'working'.  But I'm seriously surprised and happy that its actually relieving one of my worst symptoms with so far, no negative consequences.

 

I've been taking one 1000mg tablet when I wake up in the night around 1am, 4am and because of this, I've been able sleep until after 7am, it seems to hold off the cortisol surges for about 3 hours, then I wake up.  So I've been taking another one when I wake around 7am. About 10am I'm feeling the pressure/tension/adrenaline start to come back, so I take another one and in about half an hour, I'm feeling physically relaxed again.

 

Its such a relief to have had 3 days free from ongoing surges of panic/terror.  It feels like my body is now able to calm down enough to really start its repair process properly.  I'm not in a state of fight/flight all day any more.  I've also noticed that I'm not exhausted by early evening like I usually am.

 

I'm still confused/concerned about the fact that regular vitamin C is actually ascorbic acid, a synthetic, not properly absorbed and possibly linked with some negative consequences, but its cheap.  According to some of the research I've done, the reason you have to take such high doses of ascorbic acid in order for it to really have an impact on illness is because only a small percentage is actually absorbed.

 

But for now, I don't really care, I'm getting some symptom relief with no negative down side and after almost 4 years of daily suffering, with no end in sight, this is.... well, it feels like a miracle and I'm not sure I believe it yet.

 

Thank you aNM, 

[Laura1981]

Hi Jemima, 

 

sorry for digging out this ancient quote. I started having cortisol mornings. I'm trying the sleep mask etc. 

 

Just wanted to ask if the Phosphatidylserine kept working for you or if it stopped / caused a rebound problem eventually. 

 

Thanks a bunch, 

 

Laura

 

I took Phosphatidylserine (100 mg.) for the first time today and I'm feeling almost supernaturally calm, certainly no bad side effects as of yet. I took it about ten hours ago. I'm hopeful that it will have some longer-term effects such as getting rid of the residual morning Cortisol jolt.

An update on this post:

I took a Phosphatidylserine cap at bedtime last night and did nor have any screwy dream memory upon awakening. I had also taken one after lunch yesterday and was able to take a nap. I had a dream while napping, but it was pleasant.

My lunchtime dose today has made me very sleepy, and here I am attending a webinar for CPE credit. (Two yawns!) I'm going to try changing this dosing schedule to taking one first thing in the morning when this sedative effect would be more welcome and another with dinner. The directions say it should be "preferably" taken with food, but it seems to work well without it.

 

[csm2014]

The saliva tests for cortisol are completely unreliable.

 

My PCP also believes this as well which is the opposite of what the alternative medical community believes. Can you provide some data to support your statement? I've used 24h urine, serum, and saliva, and have seen mixed results. With cortisol isn't what matters is the the diurnal rhythm more than the total amount? You only get to see this via 4x saliva testing. The problem with the 24h urine is that it only provides an average, whereas the 4x saliva provides some type of diurnal curve. Serum would be best but one would have to have to collect multiple specimens within a 15h window which is a logistical issue.

[Meimeiquest]

The book The Adrenal Reset Diet delineates different symptom patterns typical of different abnormalities. Personally, although I have had blood, saliva, and urine testing in the 15 plus years I haven't felt well, you can feel if you don't feel right, and then get on with fixing it.

[Addax]

Articles pertaining to Vitamin-C helping to reduce cortisol

 

Based on a few reports from members here that supplementing with vitamin C has helped reduce or even eliminate symptoms associated with their withdrawal, particularly having to do with cortisol, I thought I'd past some links to articles from popular media and a few journal articles that suggest similar benefits to taking vitamin C. I had first heard of Vitamin C helping to reduce cortisol years ago in regards to exercise, particularly after intense exercise. I'd almost completely forgotten about this.

 

Here are some articles. The one caveat is that many studies use saliva to measure cortisol, the reliability or which is often questioned.

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200304/vitamin-c-stress-buster

 

http://www.livestrong.com/article/487642-vitamin-c-dosage-to-reduce-cortisol/

 

http://bodybuilding.about.com/od/supplementationbasics/tp/reducecortisol.htm

 

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/gill3.htm

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11590482(Vitamin C supplementation attenuates the increases in circulating cortisol, adrenaline and anti-inflammatory polypeptides following ultramarathon running.)

Edited April 17, 2015 by Petunia
added title from merged topic

[Petunia]

Thank you for finding and posting these Addax. (I moved them from the media section)

 

I'm still having success with the high dose vitamin C keeping me relaxed, but finding I have to take it every 2 - 3 hours through the night and morning, because no matter how much I take, I seem to metabolize it very fast.  So I just ordered a sustained release version.

[btdt]

I have sustained release 1000mg but they are so large i can't swallow them.  With recent illness I put them in a coffee grinder and added it to apple sauce.  Since reading your post today I tried again as I generally only take it when I am ill.  Not sure if it is related but I had a huge sugar craving that is all I have to report. 

[freespirit]

I take 600 mg. of vitamin c twice daily to help with histamine sensitivity. I'm wary of taking more, because of having kidney issues in the past. That being said, I'm back to doing a monthly Meyer's Cocktail through the naturopath: http://www.altmedrev.com/publications/7/5/389.pdf You'll see that it contains other vitamins and minerals, which the naturopath varies according to how I'm doing. While I've sometimes felt I'd like to receive one more often, I can't afford to do that. Also, it mostly seems to hold me through the month. It's helped with everything from insomnia to pain and mood. I was doing these when I first started seeing him, which went a long way to increasing energy and reducing fibromyalgia symptoms.

 

While I find the Meyer's to be relaxing, taking oral vit c is stimulating for me. I have to take it earlier in the day, by lunchtime, or it keeps me awake at night.

[RubyTuesday]

Dave,

re: setting alarm for 345: I believe I have been using a variant of this solution in that I force myself out of bed at 6am to attend a 7am AA meeting. This short-circuits the whole cortisol thing. and i get to wake up for an hour with a group of folks who are trying to live a sober lifestyle. when i try to "sleep in" it is actually impossible as i just end up lying in bed and quivering and crying indefinitely and it is hell.

also the yogis call the 4am zone "the ambrosia hours". it is supposed to be the best time to wake up and practice, and maybe they knew something we don't.

Ruby

 

p.s. can anyone explain to me how to reply to a specific couple of lines like you guys copy the lines in question in a kind of subscript that makes it clear what you are replying to, when I copy & paste it just comes up in the same type

[Rhiannon]

Thank you for finding and posting these Addax. (I moved them from the media section)

 

I'm still having success with the high dose vitamin C keeping me relaxed, but finding I have to take it every 2 - 3 hours through the night and morning, because no matter how much I take, I seem to metabolize it very fast.  So I just ordered a sustained release version.

Just as an FYI, that's pretty normal, vitamin C is water soluble and once our cells take up what they're going to use the rest goes right out through the kidneys pretty fast. You can get a form that's complexed with minerals that doesn't cause as much diarrhea and is absorbed a little more slowly. If you're not getting diarrhea, don't worry about it, your body is absorbing all the C you're taking so it's not staying in the bowel.

 

As far as the vitamin C and ascorbic acid thing you are referring to, I don't understand it. Vitamin C IS ascorbic acid. That's what it is. If you get it from natural sources you probably get more cofactors with it, so maybe they're referring to vitamin C with all the other bioflavonoids it's usually associated with. But the actual vitamin C itself is just ascorbic acid.

 

I take a form of C that's a mineral ascorbate and packaged with quercitin because I take it for its antihistamine effects as much as anything. (Especially this year, we've had an early spring and it seems like everything is blooming, even the cats!) Quercitin (a bioflavonoid) also has antihistamine effects too.

 

I'm so glad the C is helping you so much! Yay! Like I said in your thread, there may be a histamine connection for you too. Personally I just don't want to deal with the limitations of the low histamine diet and the C does the trick for me.

[indigo]

My 4 am dreads are less dreadful these days. I have added 1000 mg of C and Curcumin.(turmeric).

They may have something to do with the improvement but I also have a new strategy that really helps.

When I wake up at 4 am, instead of lying there  anxiously obsessing, I listen to an audio book.

The story distracts my mind until I fall back to sleep.  Very soothing, like being read a bedtime story. 

[ladybug]

I wake up with some anxiety most of the time, but my biggest (and newest) symptom for the past few months has been waking up with awful nausea every single day. Does anyone else have this and can it also be attributed to cortisol? Another question I have is, I know cortisol fluctuates throughout the day and is at its highest in the morning, but let's say you are not someone on a normal sleep schedule. For instance, I usually don't awaken til around noon. Would high cortisol still be a factor at that hour or later?

 

Reading around the internet, I wonder if this nausea upon waking could also be caused by acid reflux? In my case it could be "silent" reflux as I don't usually experience common symptoms like heartburn, etc. I do however have this thing where if I drink any amount of liquid or eat I get these strange, random hiccups where I take in a lot of air involuntarily. Other people who experience these said their doctor told them it was due to acid reflux. Anyway, throwing stuff out there and seeing if anyone has experienced it.

[mattinsmom]

Hi Ladybug

 

I too wake up later in the day and I am re-experiencing trouble with the first hour or so of waking. I'm thinking that mine is affected by hormonal shifts. When my diet has had a lot of salt in it my mornings tend to be worse with anxiety and hot flashes. I've never understood the cortisol so I will leave that to those who do.

 

However, I do know some about about reflux. Your hiccups raise my eyebrow more than the nausea. One very simple test is to raise your head when sleeping. My doctor had suggested placing a brick or two under the box spring. I've propped on pillows too and found that just as effective. You'll have some ideas within a couple of days. Diet has been the thing that has had the largest impact on resolving my reflux (after d/cing Wellbutrin). I will admit right now that I don't often follow my Drs recommendations but when I do, they work. Limiting the amount of food eaten before bed gives food time to digest before you are horizontal...limit foods that are acidic, no chocolate (I do not follow that one )...limit dairy...no caffeine...frequent, small meals (that one I do). 

 

I hope that this resolves for you.

[Petunia]

At the moment  I'm taking NOW brand C-1000 with Rose Hips and Bioflavonoids from iHerb

 

But I've ordered some other brands of sustained release, because these only seem to work for about 2 hours at a time, for me anyway.

[ladybug]

Hi Ladybug

 

I too wake up later in the day and I am re-experiencing trouble with the first hour or so of waking. I'm thinking that mine is affected by hormonal shifts. When my diet has had a lot of salt in it my mornings tend to be worse with anxiety and hot flashes. I've never understood the cortisol so I will leave that to those who do.

 

However, I do know some about about reflux. Your hiccups raise my eyebrow more than the nausea. One very simple test is to raise your head when sleeping. My doctor had suggested placing a brick or two under the box spring. I've propped on pillows too and found that just as effective. You'll have some ideas within a couple of days. Diet has been the thing that has had the largest impact on resolving my reflux (after d/cing Wellbutrin). I will admit right now that I don't often follow my Drs recommendations but when I do, they work. Limiting the amount of food eaten before bed gives food time to digest before you are horizontal...limit foods that are acidic, no chocolate (I do not follow that one )...limit dairy...no caffeine...frequent, small meals (that one I do). 

 

I hope that this resolves for you.

 

Thank you, MattinsMom! I definitely feel all my WD symptoms are made worse by my hormones. My worst time of the month is day 5-16 of my cycle and this is when the nausea is at its worst as well. It's so unusual that I feel much worse after my period than I do before. I have no idea what that is about.

 

Strangely enough, I had to wake up early the other day for a job interview (I haven't worked in years) and I only got about 4 hours sleep but when I woke up I had no nausea! Later in the day I had a sandwich and took a nap and the nausea came back. I must admit all the things you mentioned NOT to do are things I do quite often, so maybe that's problem! I love acidic foods, dairy and chocolate and I have a bad habit of eating one snack upon waking and then one big meal for dinner. Not good. I do stay away from caffeine as I am pretty sensitive to it. Thanks again for the tips. I will definitely try sleeping propped up and see if that makes a difference in the hiccups and maybe even the nausea.

[RubyTuesday]

 

 

 

Thank you, MattinsMom! I definitely feel all my WD symptoms are made worse by my hormones. My worst time of the month is day 5-16 of my cycle and this is when the nausea is at its worst as well. It's so unusual that I feel much worse after my period than I do before. I have no idea what that is about.

 

towards the end of both my menstrual madness as well as my run on SSRIs, (although i did not know at the time that it was the end) I started feeling way worse after the period rather than before, including nausea, just after the bleeding slowed down, also dizzy, weak. at the time I thought it was the overdose of Aleve, but it could have been perimenopause and/or psych med overdose also, I realize now

a bit earlier in the game i had horrendous cramps while ovulating, then I cut out all non-organic dairy/eggs etc., and it cleared up by about 80% immediately

[csm2014]

I also suffer from what I call the morning cortisol surge, however, even prior to using psych meds,  I've had issues with dysregulated cortisol rhythms for years before starting any of these meds. It's just more acute now, especially during withdrawal.

I have done extensive cortisol serum, urine, and saliva testing over the last several months to track the effects and determine a correlation. I also test for urine and serum catecholamines (epinephrine, norepinephrine, dopamine). The alternative medical community believes that 4 x's saliva testing is the gold standard, but I have not found that my symptoms do not always correlate to the levels I've found with saliva testing. In fact, they were normal when I was symptomatic. Blood and urine, however, showed a connection, especially recently, in which both serum and urine cortisol levels were elevated. I ruled out Cushing’s (did a dexa suppression test which was negative). Not surprisingly, my doc stated that 24h urine cortisol can become elevated during withdrawal. No kidding.

Of anyone I know, I have tried just about every OTC supplement on the market and mentioned in this thread. Although these supplements help mitigate the severity, I have found none that completely eliminate the symptoms entirely, and if I take too many calming supps and herbs, I get a dumbed-down, depressed-type lethargy commingled with anxiety which is worse because you don't want to get out of bed which is when the anxiety starts to reverse. Case in point was a few weeks back, when I once again tried some Seriphos the night before and prior to my usual cortisol surge (although I see that it has helped many others) and felt worse, as I did when I trialed PS a few times as well. Magnesium is one of the few that do not cause this, but it's so mild and doesn't do much to relieve the anxiety either. The only one I haven't tried that was mentioned is Lactium, however, I would be concerned with the casein since I am sensitive to it.

 

If anyone is looking for a very effective and bioavailable Vitamin C supp, I would recommend this one (1 scoop is 4 grams and is non-acidic): http://www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com/vitality-c-powder-ribose-AN200-p-american-nutriceuticals.html?kpid=vitality-c-powder-ribose-AN200&gclid=CIj6jvPtkMUCFQiDfgodDFYAdA

In addition to Vitamin C, DHEA has an inverse relationship with cortisol. Has anyone else tried it to help reduce the morning surge and w/d symptoms in general? I take 25mg daily. If I don’t take it, my levels fall to low normal.

Some links on DHEA:

 

DHEA - The Real Story
http://www.drdebe.com/articles/dhea-the-real-story

DHEA lessens depressive-like behavior via GABA-ergic modulation of the mesolimbic system.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18496525

But in this study, it showed that older adults (60 to 79 years), DHEA treatment worsened cognitive function:

Impact of DHEA on GABA-agonist Challenge in Healthy Young and Older adults:

http://d-scholarship.pitt.edu/9363/

Following are some links from Dr. Jonathan Prousky that I’d like to share that I thought would be helpful for those wanting to look into other alternative remedies in addition to the cortisol-reducing effects of ascorbic acid that may be helpful for anxiety peri and post withdrawal, especially with respect to the morning cortisol anxiety:
 
Tapering Off Psychiatric Drugs So They Don’t Ruin Your Life:
https://app.box.com/s/ksnz7p4w4ivu4shqoz6plzy5ra8sgsk9

The Manifestations and Triggers of Mental Breakdown, and its Effective Treatment by Increasing Stress Resilience with Psychosocial Strategies, Therapeutic Lifestyle Changes, and Orthomolecular Interventions:
https://app.box.com/s/3sjb65unv0ss1txyhmp4pkhyi5d4owbz

Tapering Off Psychotropic Drugs: Using Patient Cases to Understand Reasons for Success and Failure:
https://app.box.com/s/tlp79ocmv5fqtllvh59fuondji82qq29

Please share your thoughts on these links!

I am nearly done with my Lamictal taper and other than the morning anxiety, have been doing well the last couple weeks. Am apprehensive as hell about tapering Klonopin, and that’s up next!
 

[Petunia]

I take 600 mg. of vitamin c twice daily to help with histamine sensitivity. I'm wary of taking more, because of having kidney issues in the past.

 

The evidence linking vitamin C supplements with an increased rate of kidney stones is inconclusive, it seems this is one of those longstanding myths, based on a theory, without any clear proof to back it up.

 

 

In addition to Vitamin C, DHEA has an inverse relationship with cortisol. Has anyone else tried it to help reduce the morning surge and w/d symptoms in general? I take 25mg daily. If I don’t take it, my levels fall to low normal.

 

Some links on DHEA:

 

DHEA - The Real Story

http://www.drdebe.com/articles/dhea-the-real-story

 

DHEA lessens depressive-like behavior via GABA-ergic modulation of the mesolimbic system.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18496525

 

 

Thank you for all these links csm, I haven't read through all of them yet, but after reading through our thread on DHEA here:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/808-dhea-dehydroepiandrosterone/

 

I started thinking about trying a small dose, so I've ordered some. But I'm not sure if I'll actually receive it, because DHEA is a restricted substance here in Australia, only available by prescription, so it may be confiscated by customs. If it arrives, I'll probably try 2.5mg to start.

 

The Camu Camu (natural vitamin c) supplements I ordered got through, and that's restricted also, goodness knows why, apparently customs also often seizes any supplements in powder form.

[csm2014]

 

I take 600 mg. of vitamin c twice daily to help with histamine sensitivity. I'm wary of taking more, because of having kidney issues in the past.

 

The evidence linking vitamin C supplements with an increased rate of kidney stones is inconclusive, it seems this is one of those longstanding myths, based on a theory, without any clear proof to back it up.

 

 

In addition to Vitamin C, DHEA has an inverse relationship with cortisol. Has anyone else tried it to help reduce the morning surge and w/d symptoms in general? I take 25mg daily. If I don’t take it, my levels fall to low normal.

 

Some links on DHEA:

 

DHEA - The Real Story

http://www.drdebe.com/articles/dhea-the-real-story

 

DHEA lessens depressive-like behavior via GABA-ergic modulation of the mesolimbic system.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18496525

 

 

Thank you for all these links csm, I haven't read through all of them yet, but after reading through our thread on DHEA here:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/808-dhea-dehydroepiandrosterone/

 

I started thinking about trying a small dose, so I've ordered some. But I'm not sure if I'll actually receive it, because DHEA is a restricted substance here in Australia, only available by prescription, so it may be confiscated by customs. If it arrives, I'll probably try 2.5mg to start.

 

The Camu Camu (natural vitamin c) supplements I ordered got through, and that's restricted also, goodness knows why, apparently customs also often seizes any supplements in powder form.

 

Wow, there doesn't seem to be a supplement that hasn't already been reviewed here - which is great. Will read through that link on DHEA, thanks.  Hope it gets through stupid customs!

 

Another little tidbit that may help: Injectable Magnesium Sulfate works so much better than anything oral. I shot 1g IM before bed last night and woke up without any anxiety surge this morning - first time in weeks I felt this good! Can't say for sure the Mg had anything to do with it, as I've injected it before bed before and it didn't seem to have any effect either way, so may just be a coincidence, but certainly can't hurt since it balances BOTH adrenalin and cortisol. You will need an Rx from your doc for this though. There are many vial sizes and it's fairly inexpensive. Next, I want to try injectable glycine and theanine, as that's another anxiety reliever. There is actually a formulation available called CALM:  http://defymedical.com/services/83-calm-injection-therapy

[Bear in mind that both taurine and of course GABA are gaba agonists, which, if you're withdrawing from benzos, may not be a good idea as elucidated in this forum: http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/54028-treating-anxiety-safely-effectively/; and 5-HTP increases serotonin which if you're on SSRIs can cause serotonin syndrome]. 

 

For those concerned about ascorbic acid causing kidney stones, I also agree that is is inconclusive, but to err on the side of caution would recommend potassium and magnesium citrate powder which will dissolve stones and alkalinize the urine. I should know, as I passed one three years ago, the most excruciating experience I've ever endured that I'd wish on no one.