AuntieBea: tapering Celexa and Wellbutrin

[AuntieBea]

Hello—I started tapering 8 months ago. Since I am trying to get off of 2 antidepressants I wasn’t sure if I should do one and then the other, or progressively do them both together. Since they work together, I decided to drop down one for a few months, and then the other. My starting dose was 10mg Celexa and 150mg Wellbutrin. I use a millimeter scale and have been doing a 10% reduction per month, first the Celexa until I brought it down to 6.6mg (1/3 total dose reduction) and then the Wellbutrin to 100mg (also a 1/3 dose reduction). That took 7 months. It is now the 8th month and I started reducing the Celexa again—another 10% bringing the dose down to an even 6mg. 

 

Up until now the process has been comfortable. There have been some digestive issues which I suspect may be related, but overall no problems. I’m 2 weeks into this last reduction and am experiencing insomnia, to the point that I simply cannot function. A friend suggested Benedryl. My body is so sensitive that I am very cautious about taking anything new that’s a drug, but being desperate I tried it. I’ve used it 3-4

times, and I do sleep and am calm and relaxed and productive the next day. But twice now, the day after the calm day my anxiety level has gone sky high to the point of being scary. I am scared, which is why I’m finally introducing myself on this forum even though I joined several months ago.

 

This anxiety is totally out of the blue. My first thought was I’d have to  give up on this taper altogether, and then I began to wonder about the Benedryl. I did some reading here on this site, and it seems that Benedryl could possibly be the source of the problem rather than the taper itself. I am suspicious of both the exceptional sense of calm one day, and then extreme anxiety the next day. I am definitely planning not to take the Benedryl again but am also wondering if I should drop back on the Celexa reduction to my previous dose of 6.6mg and just give this tapering process a rest for a couple of months. I really don’t want to have to give up on the whole thing. Anyway, I’m hoping for some advice on this. Maybe I should slow the whole thing down to a 5% reduction after getting restabalized again...? Maybe I shouldn’t be alternating between the two drugs...? Is there a better way? 

 

Unfortunately I haven’t written my history yet so it’s not there to refer to. But meanwhile any advice would be so appreciated. 

Thanks!

 

[Gridley]

Hello, AuntieBea, and welcome to SA.

 

For some reason, I'm not able to ick up the link, but please Google "Surviving Antdepressants.org benadryl."  Please take a look at the first thread, especially the sixth poster, Nadia, who noted increased anxiety after using it.  

 

Since things have been going well until recently, I certainly would not abandon the taper.  In the interest of stability, I would not updose the Celexa but rather hold at your current doses of Celexa and Wellbutrin for a couple of months and let things stabilize.  At that point you can determine if you want to continue at 10% or go slower at 5%.

 

The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable. 

 

To give members the best information, we ask them to summarize their medication history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly.

• Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years. 
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago) 
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016. 
• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses. 
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 
• Link to Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

Please include the dates of your taper, the rate at which you tapered, and whether you did every-other-day dosing.  Please keep your signature as simple and easy to read as possible.

 

At Surviving Antidepressants, as you know, it is recommended that a person taper by no more than 10% of their current dose with at least a four week hold in-between decreases.  The 10% taper recommendation is a harm reduction approach to going off psychiatric drugs.  Some people may have to taper at a more conservative rate as they are sensitive to even the smallest drops.
  

Before you begin tapering what you need to know

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Brain Remodelling

 

Tips for tapering off Celexa (citalopram)

 

Tips for tapering off Wellbutrin, SR, XR, XL (buproprion)

 

Here are some links to help you understand withdrawal:

 

To help you understand the symptoms you are experiencing, here is some information on withdrawal.  The withdrawal time doesn't necessarily correlate with the time you were on the drug.  These drugs alter the architecture of the brain, and the time necessary to heal the brain and return to homeostasis is, unfortunately, impossible to predict.  

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list.

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

Youtube video, 4 minutes: Healing from antidepressants

 

This is your introduction topic -- the place for you to ask questions, record symptoms, share your progress, and connect with other members of the SA community.  I hope you’ll find the information in the SA forums helpful for your situation.  I'm sorry that you are in the position that you need the information, but I am glad that you found us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AuntieBea]

Hello Gridley—

 

Thank you for welcoming me to SA. I’m so grateful to have found this forum. 

I’ve continued with the current doses of Celexa and Wellbutrin as you suggested. Also have been doing a lot of reading on the site, finding my way around. I’m definitely in the right place. Actually feeling a bit overwhelmed by so much information and so many other people’s stories.

 

I felt better yesterday, but now again today am feeling extreme anxiety. Not as bad as the other day, but I am really not very functional. Just barely putting one foot in front of the other. Still not sleeping. It’s hard to lie still because I’m too agitated but I can hardly sit up because I’m too tired. I don’t know if what I’m feeling is just from sleep deprivation or if it is actually withdrawal. 

It’s really hard for me to write anything at all right now, but I’m reaching out because I know there is help and that people on this forum do understand what I’m experiencing. It’s really scary stuff. I’ve been here before with this anxiety and I’ve only ended up being prescribed more drugs by drs. I did taper off Klonapin and Seroquel a few years ago over the course of about a year (I think), just going on what research I could do on my own online. No help from my psychiatrist who just told me I could cut up the pills with a knife and I’d be OK. Just give it a few weeks. Well I wasn’t OK, I was having crazy gastrointestinal symptoms, rashes, phobias, anxiety, etc. I never did find this forum back then, but now I have and I’m beginning to wonder if some of the symptoms I continue to have are actually related to withdrawal from that previous taper.

 

Anyway, I’m going to attempt to write down my history now. I’ll do the best I can with it, but except for the last two years dates will be very approximate and I don’t remember doses at all. I could use some encouragement right now I guess. I’m feeling really alone with this thing and I know I don’t have to be. Thanks.

 

[AuntieBea]

Hello again—I’m reading so much stuff that I have more and more questions. Do I raise questions about my personal situation here in introductions? 

 

Anyway, I feel pretty crazy right now.  I’m worried about whether I’m doing the right thing by staying with this 6mg dose of Celexa which I just tapered down to just two weeks ago on April 1. I had been doing very well, eight months into this taper, and then all of a sudden I stopped being able to sleep. Then I took Benedryl 3-4 times last week to help with the insomnia, and now not only can I not sleep but I have extreme anxiety. I won’t take Benedryl again because it seems to have gone paradoxical on me, as I have been reading about here. But still left with the question as to whether or not I should back up the Celexa dose again to where it was comfortable??? Seems like that in itself can be risky business. Hoping someone can help me out with this.

 

Also reading about whether to taper Benzo or AD first and realize based on Heather Ashton’s advice a few years ago I tapered the benzo and antipsychotic first. That was a few years ago. Now I’m thinking that was a mistake. But from what I’m reading the worse thing would be to add anything back in at this point. Nor am I inclined to. I just would like some confirmation on this from someone else because I am just going round and round in my own head right now.  Thanks.

[Gridley]

 Yes, here in Introductions is the place to raise questions about your personal situation.

 

Ideally, you would have tapered the benzo last but that is water under the bridge.  I definitely would not add anything back at this point.  

 

You apparently had an adverse or paradoxical  reaction to the Benadryl, similar to the anxiety the member reported in the thread I listed earlier.  I am hoping that things will stabilize soon.

 

We generally advise tapering only one drug at a time down to zero, then tapering the next drug.  When taking multiple psychiatric drugs, we recommend that you taper the more activating drug first, which in this case is Wellbutrin.  

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

 

I asked the other moderators about your situation, and Altostrata, the site's founder, responded as to which of your drugs to taper first:

 

"Generally the activating drug (Wellbutrin) but depends on the symptom pattern. If the Wellbutrin was added to keep the person awake, reducing the Wellbutrin will cause the person to be sleepy again.

 

If anxiety, palpitations, nervousness, or sleeplessness is a problem, definitely reduce Wellbutrin first -- but to differentiate from withdrawal symptoms, determine that the symptoms are worse after taking Wellbutrin by asking for daily symptom pattern."

 

Could you provide a symptom pattern of your day and tell me if your symptoms are worse after taking Wellbutrin?  

 

You may want to consider leaving the Celexa in place--hold rather than updose--and give yourself some time to stabilize after the Benadryl.  Then begin a taper of the more activating Wellbutrin.  This could result in both an improvement in sleep and a reduction in anxiety.

[AuntieBea]

Anxiety, palpitations, nervousness, and sleeplessness are definitely the issues. I will have to wait till tomorrow morning to start monitoring my symptoms. I take the Celexa and Wellbutrin first thing. 

 

I’ll continue on the same dose of Celexa as you have suggested. I understand what you’re saying about tapering down the Wellbutrin first. That makes sense given my symptoms. But that will only be later after I have stabilized again.

 

Thanks again for your help. I’ll be back in touch tomorrow.

[Gridley]

Sounds good, AuntieBea.

[AuntieBea]

Hello again,

 

I’m feeling much better today. Thankfully slept 5-6 hours.

 

When I got up there were still some palpitations and nervousness, but the extreme anxiety was gone.

 

I took my meds at 9:00AM and there has been no big change in symptoms throughout the day. It’s now 5:30PM. So I would say the symptoms are not worse after taking Wellbutrin.

I’m better than yesterday for sure. Still some nervousness and palpitations, but no extreme anxiety. I do not feel scared like I did before. I do feel somewhat “disconnected”, lightheaded maybe. So not entirely mentally stable. I would not drive a car, for instance or go into a store. Maybe a walk tomorrow. 

 

Seems like around mealtimes there is a slight increase in symptoms, but eating helps. Feels like a blood sugar issue. I’m guessing from everything I’ve read, that the body can become hypersensitive to things that weren’t necessarily problematic before. I guess that’s what my Benedryl reaction is about. Actually ever since my last taper off Klonopin and Seroquel, I have had food sensitivities that seriously restrict my diet. I always thought I had just developed a sensitive stomach for no particular reason and now I’m thinking it’s probably directly related to WD.

 

I’m leaving the  Celexa dose as is for now, and will see how I’m feeling tomorrow. 

Thanks Grindley! It means a lot to me to have your help through this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gridley]

Thanks for the symptom update, AuntieBea.  I'm glad you're feeling better--a very encouraging sign.  I have many food sensitivities I never experienced before--all WD-related.  Take that walk and please keep us updated.

[Marmot]

1 hour ago, AuntieBea said:

I always thought I had just developed a sensitive stomach for no particular reason and now I’m thinking it’s probably directly related to WD.

 

You're not alone with that 

[AuntieBea]

Good morning—I didn’t sleep much last night so am feeling pretty awful today. Seems like sleep deprivation is a trigger in itself for all these WD symptons. Wish I could say I’m feeling good today but I’m not. Depression, anxiety, palpitations and generally overwhelmed by everything. I drove down to the store to get Epsom salts and was reminded of why I didn’t go out yesterday. I feel

like I’m in a fog, just not fully in my “right mind”. Definitely shouldn’t be driving.

 

I’m reading more and more on the forum to the point where I’m getting utterly overwhelmed by it. I want to respond to so many people’s posts but my mind is racing ahead faster than I can write. Plus I have never been on a forum before and I don’t really know how to do things. I don’t have a “kid” around anymore who knows how to do all this stuff either. I used to depend on that. I read so many stories that are my story in one way or another, and one thing leads to the next. I realize I’ve been totally alone with this for so long, trying to fit into the world’s standard of normal, and as a result mostly feeling abnormal and a misfit, way too sensitive and not even sure if I can trust myself to know what I’m feeling because no one else seems to be feeling that, so maybe I’m imagining it. Drug sensitivities, food sensitivities, sensitivity to light, sound, sensory input of all kinds, and all the physical symptoms that go with it, it’s liberating to find myself communicating with other people who know exactly what I’m talking about. People who know a lot more than me. For the first time I can remember I feel that what I’m experiencing IS normal, normal for someone in WD. And then I feel overwhelmed with sheer gratitude for everyone on this forum, for sharing their experience, strength and hope (forgive me for borrowing a 12-step phrase), and for so generously reaching out and helping one another with the blow by blow strategies for dealing with this horrible affliction. I even got out my globe so I could really visualize this worldwide network of people helping each other, from New York to Equador to Australia, the UK, Europe, Canada, and then some. Seems like a miracle. I’m totally overwhelmed by it. I just really needed to express that. So thank you from the bottom of my heart to everyone here! Hopefully I’ll be able to communicate and respond more, maybe even have help to offer someone else when I figure out how to manuever on here a bit better. 

 

Meanwhile, I’m looking at magnesium to help with sleep and I did get the Epsom salts, but now I’m seeing that there are lots of different “magnesiums” for soaking in and my mind is not clear enough to sort it all out. Same with the magnesium supplement. If I was thinking clearly I could figure it out with all the information on this site, but I’m just overwhelmed at the moment. Hoping for some help...are Epsom salts OK? Which magnesium should I try first, if at all given my sensitivity at the moment? And what amount...I’m guessing start with 25mg???

 

I have lots of questions regarding tapering Celexa and Wellbutrin, but I guess my priority is just trying to get some sleep. Or is it possible that further reducing the Wellbutrin (given it’s the activating drug) might be part of the solution? I don’t notice any particular increase in symptoms when I take the Wellbutrin, but maybe that’s because it has a long half life. It is since reducing Celexa again on April1 that this insomnia has kicked in and subsequently all these other symptoms, and I guess I’m wondering if some delicate balance between the the two drugs was disrupted when the percentage of Celexa to Wellbutrin was reduced. Maybe they don’t work that way, I don’t know. When I was first prescribed Wellbutrin it was after having been on Prozac for some years, and I think there was something about it being “activating” that pulled me out of the slump I was in with Prozac alone. Later the Prozac was switched to Celexa (it was a “cleaner” drug I was told—at this point I don’t think there is such a thing). Anyway, it was the progression in which those two drugs were prescribed that gave me the idea they worked together to balance each other and would best be tapered together. It’s just a further question related to our previous conversation about the usual recommendation of tapering one drug at a time.

 

Well, I’m going to send this off now. Thanks ahead of time, for helping me out!!

 

 

 

[Gridley]

AuntieBea,

 

As I understand it, April 1 is the date of your last reduction of Celexa and also the beginning of your insomnia.  Since iIt takes about 4 days for a dose change to get to full state in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain, I don't think the reduction in Celexa or the disturbance of a balance between the two drugs is the cause of your insomnia, since the drop wouldn't have had time to kick in yet by April 1.  I suggest you wait until the first of May, then start your taper (whether 5% or 10%) of Wellbutrin while leaving the Celexa on hold at 6 mg.

.

Regular Epsom salts for soaking are fine.  There's no need to differentiate among the various kinds.  I researched the different kinds of magnesium and learned that magnesium glycinate is the best for anxiety.  25mg would be fine to start.  I take 50, which is a low dose, but I am very sensitive to it.  Many members can take higher doses.  Work higher gradually.  Another idea is to dissolve the magnesium in water and sip it throughout the day.

 

 

[AuntieBea]

20 hours ago, Marmot said:

 

You're not alone with that 

Always good to hear I’m not alone!!

Until I found this forum which was really recently, I felt quite alone with all my “unusual” symptoms. There’s so much healing that happens just in being connected to others.

Thanks for being in touch.

[AuntieBea]

OK. That makes sense about the Wellbutrin. 

I’ll also get some of the magnesium glycinate. 

Hoping for some sleep tonight. Thanks!

[AuntieBea]

Hello everyone...

 

I’m reaching out again, after feeling some relief from symptoms yesterday I am feeling awful again today. Took an Epsom salt bath last night—three cups Epsom salts—and I did sleep through the night, but woke up feeling dizzy, palpitations and anxiety, brain fog and fatigue. Dizziness has let up but the other symptoms have continued. I have big bags under my eyes and dark circles like I didn’t sleep at all, but I was actually out for 6-7 hours, not even up to pee. Whatever it was it wasn’t deep, restorative sleep. I guess I won’t be using Epsom salts again. Or maybe I just should use less. 

 

I’ve been sensitive all my life, but this is over the top. I guess it’s my new normal, at least for now. I know I’ll be fine, and I’m not feeling scared like I have been.

 

Just ordered magnesium glycinate yesterday, but now feeling pretty cautious about using it. There’s a lot of information here on SA about magnesium and clearly most people tolerate it well or it wouldn’t be suggested. There are stories of other people not tolerating it so well, but I’m too exhausted and brain fogged to keep researching. I guess it’s enough for me to know that I have to be careful with it. Insomnia is still a big problem though, which is how I got into this pickle trying to solve insomnia with Benedryl. I have had some good results from using YouTube sleep videos, specifically self-hypnosis ones by Michael Sealey. Twice I’ve used those and awakened from 4-5 hours of sleep feeling wonderfully refreshed. Got that idea from Shep’s toolbox. So I’ll do that again tonight. 

 

Feeling pretty useless right now, especially because my husband could use MY support right now having had hand surgery yesterday and level 10 pain. Painkillers aren’t helping so far. I think he’s feeling pretty abandoned by me. Meanwhile,

I can hardly think a straight thought, can hardly even help myself. The only reason I mention it is because it is an emotionally stressful situation which is contributing to my anxiety I’m sure.

 

Any suggestions about the magnesium would be very welcome. I don’t know if anyone will even read all this, but writing in itself seems to help me not feel so alone with it. 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Hello, AuntieBea. That sounds like a good result from magnesium!

 

It may take you some time to catch up on sleep.

 

Sleeplessness is a very common withdrawal symptom, as are the waves of anxiety. This indicates you've reduced the Celexa too far. If I were you, I'd updose a bit, maybe to 6.5mg Celexa. Otherwise, sounds like you've been doing everything right.

 

After you do this, it would be a good idea to stop tapering either drug for a good while, maybe a couple of months, and let your nervous system settle down. Perhaps take up meditative breathing in the meantime, that will help calm your nervous system as well.

 

Most people have no problem with magnesium glycinate. Magnesium citrate is another well-absorbed magnesium, but too much at one time may cause diarrhea, which makes it a good choice for people who tend to be constipated.

 

You might try a partial capsule of mag glycinate to start, to see how it affects you.

 

Many people do better with fish oil supplements as well, see

 

 

 

[AuntieBea]

Hello Altostrata—Thanks for being in touch. I’m confused about the magnesium though....I’m feeling so terrible today and was relating that to the Epsom salt bath (the absorption of magnesium). Are you suggesting that the flare up of these symptoms

after feeling better the day before is a continued consequence of the Celexa issue? I was thinking I had an adverse reaction to the magnesium.

 

I’ll try that updose and see what happens. After that, taking a break for a couple of months sounds like a good idea. One of the moderators suggested that going forward it would be best to taper the Wellbutrin down to zero first (I have been alternating), because it is the activating drug. I had thought the two drugs worked together to maintain an activating/sedating balance and should be tapered together. But that is just my logical approach and withdrawal doesn’t seem to be based on logic. So I guess when the time comes the point is to start with Wellbutrin, go slowly, and ask for help with that as I go along.

 

Meantime, if you would please clarify about the magnesium. Many thanks!

 

[Altostrata]

The chronology is a little confusing because you are alternating tapering Celexa and Wellbutrin, but sleeplessness is a common withdrawal symptom from Celexa.

 

Because Wellbutrin tends to be activating, it is less likely that the sleeplessness was caused by those reductions.

 

It's also possible that as you reduced Wellbutrin, it caused the Celexa to be metabolized faster, giving the effect of a larger decrease in Celexa.

 

9 hours ago, AuntieBea said:

Took an Epsom salt bath last night—three cups Epsom salts—and I did sleep through the night, but woke up feeling dizzy, palpitations and anxiety, brain fog and fatigue. Dizziness has let up but the other symptoms have continued. I have big bags under my eyes and dark circles like I didn’t sleep at all, but I was actually out for 6-7 hours, not even up to pee.

 

Sleeping 6-7 hours solid is an unusual occurrence, correct? Sounds like the magnesium caused you to sleep, and your system got confused by that and kicked up a little in a paradoxical reaction. This is common and very confusing in withdrawal.

 

I would consider this a good result from magnesium.

[AuntieBea]

Thanks Altostrata. I am so grateful for your knowledge and experience, and your ability to think this stuff through.

 

Yes, sleeping 6-7 hours is an unusual occurrence. So, from what you are saying the magnesium did a good job and I possibly had a paradoxical reaction because my system got confused. Are you suggesting that it is worth (safe) to try the Epsom salt bath again (maybe start with less than 3 cups)? 

 

The symptoms subsided as the day went on yesterday and I slept 6 hours last night even without the bath. I did use a YouTube sleep video. There are some mild symptons today, but completely manageable. 

 

I updosed the Celexa this morning as you suggested. It makes sense that the Celexa might have been metabolized faster because of the previous Wellbutrin reductions, thus giving the effect of a larger reduction. I’m guessing that is one good reason for not alternating tapering Celexa and Wellbutrin. Anyway, I’m not reducing anything further until my body has stabilized again.

 

I will try the magnesium glycinate tonight. 25mg was suggested to start with. This current episode with WD has really strengthened my commitment to approach the recovery process with great caution and respect.

 

Thanks again Alto.

 

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Don't overdo the Epsom salts baths, your body might get used to them and not get sleepy. If you can get a couple of nights of sleep out of one bath, good enough.

 

Sleep is healing. Good to hear your nervous system got a little vacation and took a snooze. Be patient, it will very slowly revert to normal patterns.

[AuntieBea]

Got it. Thanks Alto!

[AuntieBea]

Hello. Good Morning! Here is an update—

 

—I started the Celexa updose Sat AM. Felt well all day Sat.

—Hardly slept Sat night. Took 25mg magnesium prior to bed. There was also a highly charged emotional issue with my husband.

just before bed (not good). Woke after 3 hours with dizziness and palpitations.

—Felt terrible all day Sun. Palpitations, agitation, depression, emotional “disconnect”, fatigue, anger, GI issues.

—Got some sleep last night. Four hours, then two hours. Awoke with severe palpitations and agitation. Waiting to see how I’m feeling as the day goes on.

 

Is all this typical with an updose? Would you recommend that I stay steady with the 6.5mg, or should I drop down maybe to 6.3mg?

 

I’m sure as I get more familiar with these fluctuating symptoms I won’t feel so alarmed by them, and will be better able to “feel my way” with the reductions, updoses, holds etc. I had been feeling so well throughout the first eight months of this taper that this round of WD symptoms has really shaken me up. I have experienced this before in my previous taper, but it seems so long ago that I had almost forgotten. Maybe it wasn’t really so long ago within the time frame of WD. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DMV64]

Hello this morning! How are you feeling? I woke up with the usual cortisol spike but it seems to be calming down. I hope it continues this way. It is rainy here, I went for a little run anyway.

[AuntieBea]

Good for you! Going out to run even with the rain!! It’s raining here as well but I haven’t had it in me to get out and do my usual walking. I hardly slept at all last night, so I’m feeling pretty low energy overall. I’ve been blind sided by this start of WD symptoms—I was eight months into this taper and doing really well when all of a sudden I started having symptoms. I’ve been proceeding very cautiously because I was aware of this possibility, but the reality of it is something else—disconcerting at best, and downright scary at worst. I’m feeling “disconnected” and emotionally numb today...it’s very strange and uncomfortable.

 

I made a plan today to go and stay with a friend for a while. I’m very isolated here at home, as well as exposed to many emotional triggers which are compounding my anxiety and inability to sleep. So I’m thinking that being in a neutral environment and in the company of a loving friend will probably help. 

 

Question...Did I read somewhere on one of your posts about there being a connection between antihistamines and UTI’s or interstitial cystitis?

[AuntieBea]

Hello again! Here’s a weekly update...

 

I felt “normal” and rested yesterday. Today, not so good.

There have been many recurring symptoms over the last two weeks:

                             

                             brain fog, insomnia, palpitations, anxiety, low energy, extreme fatigue, feeling “disconnected”,

                             emotionally numb, depression, difficulty concentrating, crying spells, slow brain function,

                             dizzy (spinning), cortisol spikes, tinnitus. 

 

The symptoms come and go, interspersed by occasional periods of wellness. I’ve begun to understand that even though I

feel well one day,  it may be (probably will be) different the next day. Not to be negative, just to be realistic. It makes me

wonder what “stable” really means in terms of knowing when to begin reducing again. Anyway, I’m not even close to that.

 

I do know that going forward with this taper I will be even more cautious, more respectful of my body and the healing process than ever before. So far this experience has shown me that maintaining stability along the way is ultimately so much more important than getting off the drugs. I will get off the drugs eventually, but my first commitment is to stay stable as I go along. I am feeling so vulnerable. I’ve never appreciated my mental, emotional, and physical stability as much as I do now.

 

Yesterday I switched over  to using a liquid solution for measuring the Celexa rather than the scale. I was not feeling confident 

the scale was accurate. Hope that wasn’t a mistake. Thinking about it, it seems like the drug would be absorbed way faster

by my body dissolving straight on my tongue in the liquid (tastes terrible). I’m feeling worse again today so of course am

thinking maybe that’s the reason. I’m hoping one of the moderators could give me some advice on that.

 

It’s so easy to feel alone with this. Friends try to understand, but it’s awfully hard for anyone who hasn’t experienced it to

really get it. So thanks to everyone for being here, for sharing all your experience and knowledge, intelligence, understanding,

and hope. I’ve gotten more help on this forum than from any doctor, ever.

[AuntieBea]

Wondering why the that previous post is so choppy. I didn’t actually write it that way...?

[Waterfall]

Hey.  

I just wanted to come and say hi. 

And ask how you were doing.  

Your last post mentioned feeling alone.  

I know that feeling well.  

The one where no one gets it.  

Also the frustrating of the ups and downs, 

that don't seem to have any rhyme or reason. 

Looking for reasons for a worse day.  

Or a better one.  

 

So I just stopped by to say, I get it.  

I hope you've been feeling better.  

I hope your new liquid solution has gone well. 

I hope that staying with a friend helped you.  

[AuntieBea]

It’s been over a year since my last post. I did a long hold starting last May and then started tapering again maybe in November. I honestly don’t remember when. That’s a good reason to stay updated here no matter what’s going on, just for the sake of keeping a record for myself of what I’ve been doing. I have proceeded very, very slowly since then, determined to maintain stability above all else. So I haven’t really reduced by much but I have been stable and symptom free. Until now.

 

It finally occurred to me a couple of weeks ago when I woke up (or should I say finally got up after being awake for hours) that all the various discomforts I had been experiencing for days were WD symptoms. The early morning cortisol spikes, palpitations, intense anxiety, and insomnia...the feeling that I shouldn’t be driving a car, over-the-top emotional reactions, brain fog and that disconcerting experience that I’m not really able to “connect” with life, with others, with nature. It’s out there it but I am in a bubble that separates me. I can see out of it, but I can’t really connect with anything beyond myself. It feels unreal. There’s probably a name for that experience. Anyway, here it is again.

 

I’ve been going over all of my posts from a year ago, my own and those of moderators and other members. I’ve definitely done a good job with “simple, slow, and stable”, but there’s a very important piece of advice that I did not heed which was that when I began tapering again I should start with the Wellbutrin and taper it down to zero and then go back to tapering the Celexa.  So why did I start with the Celexa? Well, I just wanted to get the Celexa down to a nice, simple 5mg because it would be so much easier to cut a 10mg pill in half and take that while at the same time getting into the more complicated calculations and measurements involved with tapering the Wellbutrin. That was really dumb, and the only reason I’m taking the trouble to write all of this down now is so that it will be a reminder to me to not do dumb things like that in the future. Like putting convenience over what’s actually safe. 

 

 

I had tapered the Celexa down to 5mg as of April 15 and within about a week I really fell apart. The trouble started before that though, probably with one or two of the earlier reductions. So I bumped the Celexa back up to 5.4mg and have stayed steady with that. Meanwhile I remembered that in the last couple of months I have also taken two different antibiotics for UTI’s and I am wondering if that is what really got this round of WD symptoms started. I am so sensitive at this point to drugs of all kinds it was a risk taking those antibiotics. But I was at my wits end dealing with UTI’s so I went ahead. It helped, but then there has been the residual yeast infection to deal with despite all my diligence with probiotics, etc. The doctor prescribed Fluconazole which I have resisted taking after reading on the Mayo Clinic website that it is not recommended to be taken with Celexa. Fluconazole can alter the way certain other drugs are metabolized and Celexa is one of them. So I thought better of taking it despite my doctor’s assurance as well as the pharmacist’s that it would not be a problem. What I do know is that if I do take it and do have a problem I’ll be totally on my own dealing with it. The doctor and the pharmacist will just shake their heads and say they never heard of that before. Thank goodness for this forum though, because everything I’m experiencing in WD no one else has ever heard of before. 

 

Well that’s enough of this long, boring post. Thanks to everyone for being here and sharing your experiences. Especially thanks to all the moderators for all the work you put into this forum and the specific help and support offered to all. I am so grateful.

 

 

[RichT]

Auntie,

 

’I didn’t think your post was long and boring atall. Drugs.com confirms exactly what you say about the interactions of your drugs. There is a major interaction between them.  Isn’t it surprising that doctors and pharmacists don’t check drug interactions before pronouncing on them? 

[AuntieBea]

Hey Rich, 

 

I know it’s goofy but it I started to cry reading your response to my not so “long and boring post”. I am so unaccustomed to anyone taking my health concerns seriously, not to mention having any real understanding or knowledge regarding the consequences of drug use, withdrawal, etc. I know that’s the very reason we all take refuge here on this forum but I haven’t been here for a while and it literally took me by surprise to be so affirmed. So there it is, that’s how it feels to be heard and understood. Thanks!

 

Yeah, it’s very surprising how casually drugs get prescribed, and even when the patient (me) expresses concern about an interaction it’s just not taken seriously. The pharmacist even looked it up himself and decided it was’t enough of a risk to be worried about. He clearly doesn’t have the kind of sensitivity going on in his body that I do...maybe it’s an instance of needing to experience it yourself before you believe it. That would be a dangerous approach for any medical professional to have. We really do have to be our own advocates thru all this.

 

All the best to you!

[AuntieBea]

I so enjoyed this morning. Feeling quite normal, I could “feel” and “connect” with the world around me. It was a very small world, just the candle burning in front of me, my African violets in bloom,  the early morning light shining inside the window and springtime on the outside (even though it is grey and gloomy and wet, again). It touched my heart. Yesterday I couldn’t “feel” or “connect” with anything. I felt dead inside. Nothing touched me. That is a real experience of loneliness. Yet another symptom, I guess, and now it’s passed.

 

The blunted feelings of yesterday were coupled with what felt like unrelenting cortisol spikes throughout the morning. My feet were freezing cold all day long as well. I kept busy with things around the house, catching up with some of the many things that get neglected and left undone when I am not feeling well. I also spent a good bit of time here on SA researching symptoms and self-care. I read such a lot and on many topics, but there was one that really stuck with me...”What is happening in your brain?” 

As its author hoped it would, it made me feel safe and encouraged. It normalized the symptoms I’d been having all day, it normalized the whole experience of WD, not to the point of removing the discomforts, but to the point that I could feel at peace with them somehow. 

 

I slept really well last night. That’s always a surprise. 

[lalala]

On 5/14/2019 at 10:57 PM, AuntieBea said:

I so enjoyed this morning. Feeling quite normal, I could “feel” and “connect” with the world around me. It was a very small world, just the candle burning in front of me, my African violets in bloom,  the early morning light shining inside the window and springtime on the outside (even though it is grey and gloomy and wet, again). It touched my heart. Yesterday I couldn’t “feel” or “connect” with anything. I felt dead inside. Nothing touched me. That is a real experience of loneliness. Yet another symptom, I guess, and now it’s passed.

 

The blunted feelings of yesterday were coupled with what felt like unrelenting cortisol spikes throughout the morning. My feet were freezing cold all day long as well. I kept busy with things around the house, catching up with some of the many things that get neglected and left undone when I am not feeling well. I also spent a good bit of time here on SA researching symptoms and self-care. I read such a lot and on many topics, but there was one that really stuck with me...”What is happening in your brain?” 

As its author hoped it would, it made me feel safe and encouraged. It normalized the symptoms I’d been having all day, it normalized the whole experience of WD, not to the point of removing the discomforts, but to the point that I could feel at peace with them somehow. 

 

I slept really well last night. That’s always a surprise. 

Hi I see your sig. you came off klonopin and seroquel better  celexa, did you sleep suffer ?... I been having bad sleep since  I came off ssri especially paxil  took klonpin and reinstalled celexa 5mg  I reduced k quite a bit and thinking of reducing the ssri now... just wondering if you suffered from sleep coming of  this drugs... it also has to do with stress my poor sleep  sometimes I sleep well

[AuntieBea]

Hello to everyone here at SA!

I am in need of some guidance from a moderator.

 

I started having WD symptoms in early April and haven’t posted anything since May. I was beginning to feel better through June and then discovered that I have a problem with my vision (Central Serous Chorioretinopathy). It is a direct result of stress and high blood pressure. It was a surprise as I have never had high blood pressure in my life. 

 

As I explained in an earlier post, I continued tapering last fall and I did not heed the advice I was given to continue first by tapering down the Wellbutrin to zero, and then to taper down the Celexa. I wish I had of course. I had wanted to get the Celexa down to an even 5mg and then work on the Wellbutrin to keep things “simple” (my hospital visit in July confirmed that it wasn’t an entirely bad idea as they refused to give me my required dose of 5.4mg). I was started on Amlodipine for high blood pressure while in the hospital. It’s been a nightmare of side effects ever since, many of which resemble WD symptoms but I don’t really know which is which. I’m trying to find a solution for the high blood pressure but it is challenging because of the side effects. I know that my nervous system is particularly sensitive because of my drug history. Meanwhile my vision is at stake so that is extremely stressful in itself.

 

My question is this: Is it possible that the Wellbutrin is causing or contributing to the high blood pressure, possibly made worse by the fact that I continued reducing the Celexa even further? I’ve been holding since April at 100mg Wellbutrin/5.4mg Celexa, so my next question is where do I go from here? I plan to continue holding until my body stabilizes, but also wonder if there might be some urgency about getting the Wellbutrin level down. I’m just guessing here and my doctor is not helpful, so of course I am hoping for advice from the moderators who actually know something.   

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

[AuntieBea]

@Gridley

Hello, Good Morning!

You were guiding me during my first experience with withdrawal (Mar-May 2018), along with some input from Alto. After a long hold I began tapering again in Aug 2018. I started at 100mg Wellbutrin and 6.5mg Celexa. Contrary to what was advised (which I regret of course), I continued to taper the Celexa hoping to get it down to an even 5mg before switching back over to taper the Wellbutrin down to zero. Your advice had been to leave the Celexa where it was at 6.5mg and go straight to tapering down the Wellbutrin to zero because it is the activating medication.

 

Subsequently I was inactive here on SA for several months and began posting again last April (2019) when WD symptoms started to recur. During Apr-May (2019) WD symptoms were similar to the previous occurrence, then in June I was diagnosed with a retinal disorder and high blood pressure.The retinal disorder was brought on by stress and by the high blood pressure. I have never had high blood pressure before in my life.

 

In July I started on Amlodipine for the blood pressure. The side effects, many of which resemble WD symptoms, were intolerable. I finally did stop taking it a couple of weeks ago, but after a few days my blood pressure shot up and out of fear I agreed to try a different med (Nifedipine). After two days I am in depression and despair from this med, along with other symptoms/side effects

as listed below. At this point I don’t know what is causing what, and am reaching out here on SA hoping for some advice.

 

Overall the symptoms/side effects come and go, and they vary. It’s been hard to see any kind of pattern, in part because the dose of BP med has been inconsistent. It’s been raised up, lowered back down, tapered off of, restarted, tapered off of again. There are occasional good days. Some days start out OK, only to have symptoms flare up out of nowhere or visa versa. My doctor is attributing the range of symptoms/side effects I am reporting to anxiety. He doesn’t know anything about Withdrawal Syndrome.I suspect that because of my long medication history, my nervous system is highly sensitized and cannot tolerate any more drugs of any kind!

 

in addition to all of the above, I am wondering about the Wellbutrin that I take. I am wondering if it is possibly causing the high blood pressure. I’m quite sure that it began around the same time all the other WD symptoms began in April. I am currently taking 100mg Wellbutrin and 5.4mg Celexa. This is as far as I got with my taper before running into problems last April. I have been holding at this amount since then.

 

Here is a list of symptoms/side effects that I have experienced since all this began in April. The palpitations, flushing, and insomnia have been constant, the others come and go:

            palpitations, flushing throughout my body, chills, insomnia, fatigue, extreme anxiety, DP/DR, depression/despair,    

            detachment, agitation, lack of emotion, brain fog, vision changes, blurred vision, eye pain, headache, rash, edema, loss of 

            libido, appetite loss, hair loss....

           

I don’t know where to go from here. I’m concerned that I may not be able to tolerate any BP med at this point. It’s complicated because Withdrawal Syndrome is a factor. Since my doctor knows nothing about it, it’s not being looked at as part of the total picture. I need to get my blood pressure down for the sake of my eyes...there is already vision loss which hopefully will eventually resolve. I am frustrated and scared and really need help sorting this out.

 

Hopefully I’ve been able to clearly explain my situation. I have specific questions but think it’s more important to send this off now in hopes of getting some sort of conversation going. I would be most grateful for any guidance you can give me.

 

AuntieBea

[Gridley]

54 minutes ago, AuntieBea said:

in addition to all of the above, I am wondering about the Wellbutrin that I take

 

AuntieBea,

 

This is a complicated situation, especially since, as you said, the doctor is not factoring in withdrawal symptoms and is attributing them to anxiety.  We can't advise you on the blood pressure medication, as that is outside our area of knowledge.

Below is a list of common side effects of Wellbutrin, some of which you have mentioned.  These also, of course, could be attributed to withdrawal.  Of particular interest is the following sentence from the end of the side effect list:

 

Wellbutrin may interact with many medications including medications used to prevent blood clots, heart or blood pressure medications,

 

You also mentioned the possibility that the Wellbutrin might be causing your high blood pressure.  This may well be the case, as high blood pressure is another side effect of Wellbutrin:

 

Bupropion and Hypertension

Bupropion has the potential to increase blood pressure because it affects the levels of certain neurotransmitters produced by the brain, known as catecholamines, which regulate not only mood but blood pressure. ... This appears true whether a person has had a prior history of hypertension or not.Aug 27, 2018

 

You can Google "Wellbutrin high blood pressure" for more information.

 

Given these two known side effects of Wellbutrin, it seems to me that tapering the Wellbutrin might be the best course, given the gravity of the blood pressure situation.  Sometimes Wellbutrin can be tapered faster than other psychiatric drugs, but care must still be taken.  This link gives specific information on how to taper Wellbutrin, including the rate of the taper.

 

Tips for tapering off Wellbutrin, SR, XR, XL (buproprion)

 

I hope this is helpful.

 

Gridley

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Common side effects of Wellbutrin include:

• agitation, 
• dry mouth, 
• insomnia, 
• headache, 
• nausea, 
• vomiting, 
• constipation, 
• stomach pain, 
• dizziness, 
• ringing in the ears, 
• vision problems or blurred vision, 
• loss of interest in sex, 
• sore throat, 
• muscle pain, 
• itching or skin rash, 
• increased sweating, 
• increased urination, 
• tremor, 
• changes in appetite, 
• weight loss or gain, 
• joint aches, 
• strange taste in the mouth, 
• diarrhea, and 
• seizures (especially at higher doses).

The usual dose of Wellbutrin is 150 to 450 mg daily. Wellbutrin may interact with many medications including medications used to prevent blood clots, heart or blood pressure medications,

[AuntieBea]

@Gridley

Hello again,

 

Thank you. Yes, that is very helpful. I notice Alto mentions in the link you suggested that in her own personal experience Bupropion caused blood pressure spikes (I can’t seem to figure out how to insert the quote here). I have a strong feeling that’s what’s going on with me.

 

I’ve taken Wellbutrin for many years without a blood pressure issue, but I’m guessing that my body’s response could have changed due to tapering, age, stress levels, etc. Does that make sense?

 

I have actually wondered for a while about the Wellbutrin and whether it might be advisable for me to begin tapering it now instead of continuing to hold given the urgency of the situation. That is the very thing that you have now mentioned as a possibility. The “Tips for tapering Wellbutrin” is a really thorough guide which I hadn’t looked over in a long time. I already use immediate release Wellbutrin as I had planned all along to make a liquid for tapering. I will be starting a cross over to the liquid tomorrow.

 

I understand that you can’t advise me on the BP medication. As I mentioned before, I’m not sure I’ll be able to tolerate any of them. So getting to the cause of the high blood pressure makes a whole lot of sense. If I could get my doctor on board with this it would be most helpful. Maybe not possible though. With that in mind I’ll mention another quote from Alto that I came across (which I also don’t know how to insert), which would be helpful for me to be really clear about in talking with my doctor.

     

     “Because of withdrawal syndrome, your autonomic nervous system overall may be hypersensitive to any neurologically 

      active drugs, including those to regulate blood pressure.”

 

If BP meds are neurologically active, then it makes sense that a person with withdrawal syndrome could be hypersensitive to them...am I understanding this correctly? My doctor has been disbelieving the intensity and number of symptoms I’ve been reporting, hence his conclusion that it must all be caused by underlying anxiety. 

 

I feel a huge huge sense of relief to have made a start with this today. I will continue to update as I go along. Thank you so much for your help, Gridley.

 

AuntieBea