Bee5: reinstated paroxetine, dose too high?

[Bee5]

@Carmie, please can you brief me on your quetiapine taper, specifically your jumps/drop between 200 mg and 100 mg. In what increments did you drop. I am feeling confident to do another 25 mg jump (slightly more than 10%), and I remember you saying that it was easier on the higher doses. I hate cutting tablets, so I thought I could go: 200, 175, 150, 125, and then start 12.5 mg steps from there? I managed that in my last quetiapine taper (I only started getting withdrawals at about 125 mg). I think my receptors are all saturated enough to handle it. My last withdrawal nightmare came from tapering the paroxetine too fast, not the quetiapine, I did that slowly over 8 months). Your thoughts?

[Carmie]

Hi Bee, 

 

I don’t remember my jumps between 200mg and 100mg very well. I didn’t know anything about tapering at the time and I didn’t keep notes. I do remember I still went through bad withdrawals though. I think I may have gone down by 25mg until under 150mg. But as I said, I went through some pretty bad withdrawals.

 

If I knew how to taper properly back then I wouldn’t have done that. At once stage I remember the akathisia flared up so bad that I felt like I was being electrocuted. It was horrific. After a week of that, I couldn’t tolerate much more, and I went back up to the last dose I was on. It worked and after a few days I was back to withdrawal normal. I probably didn’t need to updose that much though. I didn’t know anything about updosing. I just thought I might get better if I went back to my last dose and it worked. Phew! That was such a relief. 

 

I ended up splitting the tablets in half after that, and later on into quarters. When I learnt about water titrating I started to do that as it’s a lot more accurate. 

 

It’s better to be safe than sorry. I would still recommend not tapering by more than 10%. All the best with your continued tapering.💚 

 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Carmie
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[Bee5]

Thanks @Carmie. I will monitor myself closely during this month, and make a call at the end of the month about whether to jump by 25 mg (more than 10%) or 18.75 mg (less than 10%). I am just as scared of withdrawal symptoms as I am impatient to get to lower numbers faster. Do you think that the paroxetine and lamotrigine that I concurrently take with the quetiapine will act as a cushion for withdrawal symptoms, because @Altostrata mentioned that I am on really high doses on all my meds. Is it unrealistic to think they may shield some of the withdrawal symptoms?

[Altostrata]

On 2/5/2019 at 5:40 AM, Bee5 said:

Is it unrealistic to think they may shield some of the withdrawal symptoms?

 

Hi, Bee. While you're taking substantial amounts of paroxetine and quetiapine, we can't predict how much of your dosage is excess that you can drop without symptoms. The drugs also interact so that changes in one might cause more side effects from another.

 

Are you feeling any effects from the quetiapine reduction more than 2 weeks ago? What's your daily symptom pattern now?

 

Let's hope your initial reductions will uneventful. Which drug are you going to reduce first?

[Carmie]

Hi Bee, 

 

Just wondering how you’re doing?💚

[Bee5]

12 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Hi, Bee. While you're taking substantial amounts of paroxetine and quetiapine, we can't predict how much of your dosage is excess that you can drop without symptoms. The drugs also interact so that changes in one might cause more side effects from another.

 

Are you feeling any effects from the quetiapine reduction more than 2 weeks ago? What's your daily symptom pattern now?

 

Let's hope your initial reductions will uneventful. Which drug are you going to reduce first?

 

Thanks Alto. After the drop, I did not really have any symptoms. I have had a bad flu for 3 days now, so that would muddle things up symptom-wise. I have had lots of twitches and jerks during the flu, but magnesium seems to help with that.

 

I am planning on reducing the quetiapine first, in 25 mg jumps until I reach 125 mg, where I intend to start with 12.5 mg jumps. Last time I tapered quetiapine, this was a successful strategy and I managed to taper to zero without major symptoms. However, this time I intend on staying at 0 mg quetiapine for at least 6 months, to ensure that I don't get late-onset withdrawal.

 

On the topic of flu - do you know of other SA members who experience brain zaps during flu, because every time I have flu, I get brain zaps?

 

@Carmie, apart from my flu I am doing really well.

 

 

[shawny]

@Bee5 : how is ur tinnitus doing ?is it getting better ?

[Bee5]

Hi @shawny,

 

My tinnitus is much better. It's still there, but the reduction from 37.5 mg paroxetine to 32.5 mg paroxetine has made a big difference. I am sure it will improve further when I reduce paroxetine again.

 

Regards,

Bee

[shawny]

good so it gets better that's glad to hear , when i moved from 10mg to 0 mg , i got tinnitus , i'm waiting for it to go away it it ever goes i was on a drug only for 1 month and i ended up with tinnitus and vision issues 2 months into withdrawal as withdrawal starts once hte drug is out of ur body

[Bee5]

@shawny, you may have tapered too fast. I am not a mod, but the mods may advise you to reinstate a low dose to relieve symptoms. @Altostrata, @ChessieCat, @Shep, please can you weigh in?

[shawny]

They have bee  

they have been very very helpful  

[Bee5]

Great, good luck in your healing.

[shawny]

They have bee  

they have been very very helpful  

i used it for a month so it was brutal no point in going back again is what they said  

 

so im livin each day 

[Bee5]

Hi SA peeps, 

Does anyone experience a low mood and heightened anxiety when they have flu, while tapering? If so, how long does it take for mood to return to the mood before the flu? 

Bee

[powerback]

3 minutes ago, Bee5 said:

Hi SA peeps, 

Does anyone experience a low mood and heightened anxiety when they have flu, while tapering? If so, how long does it take for mood to return to the mood before the flu? 

Bee

How long is a piece of string I suppose Bee5 .

its natural  for our moods to dip when our bodies are fighting off colds and flu ,ide look into how to look after yourself emotionaly and nutritionally during this time .Up your fluids and rest .there's no magic fix ,that dreaded word time and patience .

Take care. 

[Bee5]

Thanks @powerback, it has been a week now, and mood is still low. I am just wondering in general about mood while your body fights infections. I thought that it would be a known fact, but I haven't been able to find much info on it (did try a search for flu on SA, but most posts are about the flu-like symptoms of withdrawal). 

[ChessieCat]

11 hours ago, Bee5 said:

Does anyone experience a low mood and heightened anxiety when they have flu, while tapering?

 

Any additional stress can cause symptoms to increase.  External stresses (eg argument, change of routine, travel - even a holiday, Christmas season, poor night of sleep), illness, sometimes something we eat or drink, or overdo, too much/strenuous exercise, and even good stress can increase them, eg if you are excited/looking forward to something.

[Bee5]

Thanks @ChessieCat, I am learning that any heightened emotional state can increase symptoms. I have been reading up about "flu brain" a lot, and I just wanted to see if other SA members experience it.

[Carmie]

Hi Bee, 

 

How are you doing? How’s your mood? I’ve actually got a virus at the moment too, but I’m in good spirits. Are you totally over the flu now? Take care💚

[Bee5]

I am about 90% recovered, almost 2 weeks down the line. Have had ups and downs in symptoms. I am glad that your virus is not triggering symptoms. 

[Carmie]

Glad to hear your virus is nearly gone Bee. My virus didn’t seem to ramp up my symptoms, just the usual CFS stuck in bed kind of thing. Nothing different. Did end up in tears this afternoon though, but it had nothing to do with the virus or withdrawals.

 

I’ve been playing word games on my iPad. I like just playing against the computer and not people, it’s less stressful that way as people can be so competitive. I just do it for distraction and I like learning new words. 

 

Hope you’re having a good weekend💚

[Bee5]

I have been struggling with symptoms lately, specifically anxiety and nightmares. I am taking things easy though, so hopefully I'll be back to my cheerful self soon. 

Have you finished your cross-taper? 

[Carmie]

I’m sorry you’re struggling with anxiety and nightmares Bee, 

 

Yes, I’m back on my original tablet. It’s day 17 since I’ve been on just the tablet. So great not having to do two different water titrations every night. The crossover went really well all the way through, so much better than going through the three months of waves I went through when I knew nothing of crossovers. About a week into being just on the tablet my symptoms ramped up a little for a few days, but all in all, it’s been a good crossover. I’ll probably wait another fortnight or so before I start tapering again. 

 

You tapered by more than 10%, that’s never a good idea. I was hoping you would go a bit slower. Please go slower next time.💚

 

 

Edited February 23, 2019 by Carmie
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[Bee5]

@Carmie Just remember that on top of the quetiapine, I also have paroxetine and lamotrigine, so it should buffer some of my withdrawals, and I am terrified of poop-out so I need to balance tapering and holding. Regardless, on top on flu, I also had a yeast infection, and I had to get 5 vaccinations for travel to a foreign country. This all undoubtedly wreaked havoc on my immune system and my CNS (I seem to be in the minority on this website where my immune system affects my CNS). I am holding though, on 200 mg, until I am symptom-free for a while. My sleep is better, but I am still getting a bit anxious in the evenings.

 

To the SA members: I looked up "choline" on this site, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of info on it. Have any members found benefit from using choline as a supplement (specifically in the form of soy lecithin)?

[Carmie]

Hi Bee, 

 

Yes, all the other stressors you’ve gone through certainly could have ramped up your symptoms as well. I’m sorry you’re on so many meds as well. 

 

Glad to hear you’re holding at 200mg until you stabilise. Are you going to taper by 10% after you’ve stabilised?

 

Wishing you all the best in your tapering journey💚

 

 

 

[Bee5]

I'm going to do three more 25 mg jumps until I get to 125 mg, then I will start making 12.5 mg jumps. I used this regime last time I tapered, and it seemed to work. I have the cold again, even though it's summer in my country. I just want not to be sick for a change.

[Carmie]

Hi Bee, 

 

Hope you’re having a good day. As you already know the jumps you are going to do are too high, but it’s up to you if you decide to do them. I’m glad it worked last time, let’s hope it works this time too. The thing is the more we’ve been on and off meds the more sensitised our systems become, and what worked once worked might not work again. Let’s hope it works and your waves aren’t too severe. 

 

I’m sorry you have a cold. I’m just getting over one too, I’m almost there. It’s warm here in Queensland as well. I just noticed you live in South Africa. What are the beaches like there? they look beautiful 🌊🌊🌊

 

Take care💚

 

[Bee5]

Yes, the worst part is that our systems become more sensitised. A cold or flu never used to affect my mood this severely. And having a cold and flu in summer is terrible. I am focusing really hard on only changing one thing at a time, so form now the only changes I am making are to the quetiapine. Everything else stays unchanged.

I live in Johannesburg, so I am far from the beaches, but yes, all of our beaches are amazing, both the west and east coast beaches. I prefer east coast because it is the warm Indian Ocean. 

[Carmie]

Hope you’ve gotten over your cold Bee. 

 

Yes, my system is extremely sensitised too, so many things affect me as well. I was put on and off so many meds, I don’t remember all the names of them, and now I have to be careful with so many things. When I tried magnesium a little while ago it didn’t like me whatsoever, it really ramped up my symptoms. Maybe another type might be okay, I don’t know, but for now I’m not going to worry about trying it. 

 

Take care💚

 

 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Carmie
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[Carmie]

Hi Bee, 

 

How is that cold of yours going?💚

 

 

 

 

[Bee5]

Hi Carmie,

You won't believe it, but I am still in the tail-end of the cold, but I think another day or two and it will be gone. 

I have dropped quetiapine to 175 mg. If this drop is not tolerated well, I will slow my taper to 12.5 mg for the next drop. So far, the symptoms are not too bad, but I do have bedtime anxiety, but I am able to fall asleep.

Thanks for checking up on me. I see you have made your next drop - how are you feeling?

Regards,

Bee

[Carmie]

Hi again Bee, 

 

I’m sorry you still have your cold, but I’m glad you’re at the end of it. 

 

Yes, I dropped last night. No extra symptoms so far. Withdrawals are never linear, but a lot of the time I would feel drops by about the fifth day or so. I’ve tapered by just over 3%. 

 

Nice to hear you’re thinking of slowing down your taper. I know that when I went too fast, before I knew about tapering, I payed for it. I can’t remember exactly, as I didn’t keep notes, but it was one of the drops in the 100’s that caused the akathisia to be so bad that I felt like I had my finger in a power socket and was being electrocuted. It may have been jumping from 175mg to 150. I’m not one hundred percent sure though if it was that drop or the next one.  All I know, is that after a week of absolute torture I couldn’t stand it anymore and just went back up to the last dose. After a few days it settled. I’m fortunate the updose worked.

 

Wishing you all the best with your continued tapering💚

[Bee5]

Thanks Carmie, I am learning to be aware of which symptoms are bearable (and I can push through those) and which are unbearable (e.g. akathisia). I am on the alert for any alarming symptoms. Last time I tapered quetiapine I started the slower jumps at 125 mg, and I know this time it might be different, but I am going to try anyway, and back off if it becomes too much. The taper of my three meds is going to take YEARS, and I am also conscious of the fact that the longer I am on them, the more damage I incur to my nervous system. 

[Carmie]

How are you going since your last drop Bee?💚

[Bee5]

Hi Carmie,

Going ok so far. Got ANOTHER cold. I have a toddler, so it's par for the course, but it does ramp up some symptoms; for instance, I get brain zaps when I have a viral infection. No major withdrawal symptoms though, just some bedtime anxiety and nightmares.

How are you doing on your new dose?

Bee

[Carmie]

On 3/15/2019 at 10:44 PM, Bee5 said:

Hi Carmie,

Going ok so far. Got ANOTHER cold. I have a toddler, so it's par for the course, but it does ramp up some symptoms; for instance, I get brain zaps when I have a viral infection. No major withdrawal symptoms though, just some bedtime anxiety and nightmares.

How are you doing on your new dose?

Bee

 

Hi Bee, 

 

I’m glad you’re doing well so far. How is that new cold of yours going? I hope it’s getting a bit better, Yes one cold after another is definitely no fun. Mine lasted about a week and a half, but I haven’t had another one since. Before then I don’t remember the last time I had a cold. I always killed them before they eventuated into anything. 

 

I’m not too bad on my new dose, my symptoms have ramped up a bit, but they’re bearable. I’ve had insomnia for the last week though. How about you? Are your withdrawals still at the minimum?

 

Take care, and I hope you’re over your cold soon💚