RobLee: My Intro - Effexor, cancer and surgery

[RobLee]

I've been taking Effexor for about sixteen months.  It literally saved my life.  I've never been on any kind of psychoactive medication before... well, I suppose opiates... but anyway.  I got sick about four years ago.  My doctor(s) at the time pretty much dismissed everything.  And at a time when I needed some emotional support, my wife provided none.  In fact she made things worse by yelling at me.  A lot.  I found myself crying all the time, and she would belittle me for crying so much.

 

Eventually I found a new doctor and it turned out I had cancer.  Long story.  Now the treatments have ended and it looks like I won.  But at the time I was still having the crying fits.  My oncologist was no help.  I did some online research and eventually asked my GP for Effexor, as it seemed to have the ability to help people "forget".  I doubled my dose twice and have been at 150mg daily since January.  In April (nearly a year on Effexor) I started feeling much better.  It looked like I would probably be taking it for the rest of my life.

 

A month ago I started having some abdominal pains, saw my GP and he ordered a scan.  Turns out I have another cancer now.  This kind of thing normally doesn't happen to me.  Anyway, they have to cut me open and get past some organs to get to it.  Radiation and chemo don't work on this one.  Earlier this year I had some food poisoning and couldn't eat - or take Effexor - for a full day and started feeling this "swooshing" in my head.  More online research.  It's called brain zaps.

 

So I need to have surgery four weeks from today.  I will be unable to eat  - or take Effexor - for several days.  More online research.  I just discovered surviving antidpepressants last night.  There's an awful lot to read here.  Today I am trying to start tapering off Effexor, as I have some 75 and 37.5 mg caps, so am hoping to go with 112mg daily this week, or maybe two weeks.  My plan is to reduce the daily Effexor enough that if I can start Prozac I will be able to recover from the surgery without experiencing withdrawal at the same time.

 

I see my GP on Thursday and will present the Prozac bridge.  He is just a GP but has been willing to help me in any way he can, but last time I mentioned withdrawal from the Effexor he simply said "it isn't that bad".  So as with practically everything else, it appears that I'm on my own.

 

[Altostrata]

Hello, Rob.

 

I am sorry to hear you're going through so much.

 

Since you had "brain zaps" before, you are right to be concerned that stopping Effexor for the surgery might cause you problems.  Wouldn't you also be unable to take Prozac capsules?

 

However, there may be a way for you reduce the risk of withdrawal syndrome and to continue taking Effexor throughout your surgery. You might ask your surgeon if you can get regular Effexor liquid through your feeding tube or in an intravenous drip as you recover from surgery. It has a shorter half-life, so you'd have to take it twice a day. They should be able to compound it in the hospital, this kind of delivery is common practice for people who cannot take oral medication. See Tips for tapering off Effexor (venlafaxine) for more information about liquid Effexor.

 

Switching to Prozac runs the risk that the Prozac might not forestall Effexor withdrawal. See The Prozac switch or "bridging" with Prozac

 

Prozac comes in a prescription liquid and can also be delivered via feeding tube or drip.

 

Best wishes for a successful surgery and fast recovery.

[RobLee]

Thank you Alto... it is my understanding - having read both of the threads that you cited my first night on this MB (dutifully bookmarked and printed for presentation to my GP tomorrow) - that Effexor is not available as a liquid.  But as you said, the hospital may be able to make it up and deliver it, assuming I can convince them of the seriousness of my concerns.  I will definitely ask about that.

 

So I will put the possible Prozac bridge on the back burner for now.  No sense adding new complications, as I am also tapering off prednisone and several non-essential meds in preparation for the surgery.  Thanks again for your reply.

[Altostrata]

The hospital can make up liquid from immediate-release Effexor, not Effexor XR. It should be administered twice a day.

[RobLee]

Week #1 of accelerated taper from Effexor... for six days now I have been taking one 75mg plus one 37.5mg caps daily instead of 2X 75mg (150mg daily).  I plan to continue this for one more full week before dropping back down to one 75mg cap daily for another two weeks.  If that sounds a bit confusing, that is:

Jan-Aug : 150mg daily

Sept 2-15 : 112.5mg daily

Sept 16-29: 75mg daily

Start liquid diet Sept 30, Surgery is Oct 1

Hopefully after two weeks stabilizing at 75mg daily, I can drop down to 37.5 daily and the hospital will be able to deliver that somehow while I am NPO.

 

So far this past week the SE's of taper are about the same as what I experienced when I first started Effexor last year... frequent dull headache and constant hissing sound in my head (not tinnitus).  If it gets no worse than this then I think I can tolerate it during recovery from laparotomy.

 

Very helpful information discovered on this site (survivingantidepressants.org) is do not alternate days, and maintain a constant level for two weeks to stabilize between dose reductions. Using these tips I think this is actually going to work out well.

 

I did see my GP this past week and he understands my concern about going without Effexor, but he was only able to conform that there is no IV form of the drug. This coming week I will have my pre-admission interview with the anesthesia dept and will mention my concern to them. Also I am hoping to consult with the surgeon once more before the big day and will hopefully get him going on coming up with a solution.

[mammaP]

Hi Rob, I am sorry to see that you have had such a bad time and need surgery. I had a nasty experience when I had a tummy bug and couldn't keep anything down. I also had the brain zaps and was rushed to hospital with suspected brain bleed. They didn't have effexor on the ward it was quite new then. I signed myself out when all scans were clear and when I took the effexor I felt better within hours.  Fast forward a few years and I also had cancer and needed a right hemicolectomy where they took away part of my bowel.  I was nil by mouth for several days after and of course had some withdrawal but it was not as bad as before.  As soon as I was able to sip water I could take the effexor again and I was fine. If I were you I would stick with the effexor, because you will get withdrawal from tapering fast, then the surgery while in withdrawal. The prozac bridge does not always help and I would hate to see you suffering from a failed bridge on top of the surgery. You will be reinstating after a few days. Try not to worry too much, you need to be calm and positive for the surgery and will be just fine.  You could stay at 112.5 if you are not too struggling with withdrawal. Hopefully the anaesthetist may be able to prescribe IV as Alto suggested,  they can often prescribe when doctors don't understand. I am not around much right now with family commitments but had to pop in when I saw your post. Let us know how you get on and try not to worry. 

Edited September 10, 2018 by mammaP
Corrected typos

[RobLee]

Thank you MammaP for sharing your story, and for your recommendations.  I had already pretty much decided to scrap the idea of trying the Prozac bridge, as it would likely just introduce additional complications.  Today is my last day at 112.5, which was a 25% reduction from my normal 150mg daily.  The headaches have diminished, and the buzzing noise is still prominent but I had already learned to live with that over the past 18 months.

 

Having stabilized at 112.5 for two weeks now, my plan is to drop down to 75mg tomorrow and stabilize there for another two weeks.  Most likely I will stay at 75mg for a while, though I'm not sure.  We'll have to see how it goes.  For the time being I will likely postpone the surgery in two weeks or perhaps cancel it entirely.  Yesterday I went to a national cancer center for evaluation and they would like to do more tests.  They may do the surgery later on or there may be other treatments.

 

I know the drop from 112 to 75 was a 25% reduction, and the drop from 112 to 75 will be a 33% reduction, but if the next two weeks go as well as have the past two weeks, then if nothing else I will have succeeded in dropping my dose by half.  I understand that tapering becomes more difficult at lower doses, so staying at 75 until after the latest crisis is over is probably the best idea before attempting to taper any further.

 

Emotionally I feel well (fortunately, especially for having yet another cancer) but I take comfort in knowing that I am doing something about it.  There is far less worry than my first time around.  Thanks once again for replying to my intro.

[RobLee]

On 9/15/2018 at 1:32 PM, RobLee said:

... the drop from 112 to 75 was a 25% reduction, and the drop from 112 to 75 will be a 33% reduction...

 

Duh, typo... I meant to say the drop from 150 to 112 was a 25% reduction. 

Blame it on my Lupron brain. 75mg/day working out okay so far, four days into it.

[ChessieCat]

12 hours ago, RobLee said:

Most likely I myself do not intend to actually "count" beads, but hopefully just dump out about half from each capsule and eyeball it from there.... just to keep things simple.

 

Eyeballing it is NOT recommended.  Inconsistent doses can cause issues.  It is best to make the doses as consistent and accurate as possible.

 

At the higher doses inconsistent dosing may not cause issues (or bad issues) but the lower the dose gets the more accurate and consistent you will need to be.

 

Edited September 20, 2018 by ChessieCat
edited to add NOT

[ChessieCat]

8 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Eyeballing it is NOT recommended. 

 

Please note the correction I have made to my error in the above post.

[RobLee]

Thanks Chessie... I knew what you meant, and was going to post a note this morning pointing that out (something I hate to do).  I realize that the portion and accuracy of the taper becomes more critical at lower doses. Guess I'll find out when I get to that point.

 

For now, dropping down by whole capsule sizes (75 and 37.5) seems to have worked well.  I hope to be able to stabilize at 75mg for a while, hopefully may be able to get down to 37.5 again.

 

Thank you once again! This website is a treasure trove of valuable information, and I wish I had the energy and focus to be more active here.

[ChessieCat]

19 hours ago, RobLee said:

This forum (SA) seems to be organized as "everything goes into the intro thread" rather than individual threads being grouped by topic... specific types of drugs or various facets of tapering off A/D's.  Personally I do not have sufficient expertise to counsel others in their efforts, but it seems no one ever reads my intro.  They never post there anyway.  Yet I have seen where others may start a new thread topic, and their new post ends up getting moved to their intro by the mods.  (not criticizing anyone... I also have no experience moderating an online forum, so I'm sure they have their reasons).

 

SA works differently to many other forums.  Each member has their own Intro topic which is the place where they ask questions and can journal their progress.  This keeps their history in one place and also acts as a case study for any medical professionals who access the site.  Please see the quote below.

 

There are many topics on this site and we try and keep all the information about one topic together so that it makes it easier for members to find the information.

 

We encourage members to visit other members Intro topics and support each other.  Please remember that it is their Intro topic about them, so we appreciate members keeping discussion about their own issues to a minimum so that it doesn't clutter the member's Intro topic with unnecessary chatter which may result in the member not receiving the assistance they need for their situation.  If you wish to chit chat, you may find using personal messaging is a better option.

 

 

On 5/15/2011 at 5:22 AM, Altostrata said:

 

The personal stories on this site are documentation of an iatrogenic condition -- suffering caused by medical treatment -- that is almost always ignored, misdiagnosed, or denied by the medical establishment. Given the widespread prescription of antidepressants to tens of millions of people worldwide, withdrawal syndrome probably affects hundreds of thousands if not millions -- including newborns and children.

...

With our documentation of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome, we hope to educate the medical establishment about this problem.

Case studies are essential; they are evidence understood by doctors, the psychiatric industry, and government regulatory agencies.

 

 

Edited September 23, 2018 by ChessieCat

[RobLee]

Today starts week #2 at 75mg daily, which is week #4 of my taper from 150mg/day.  Physical symptoms are minimal... hissing sound is pronounced, but headaches are gone.  I have noticed "Auditory Anomalies" (not hallucinations) and would pose a question here to others if I felt anyone would read it. 

 

Most disturbing is that weepiness and choking up has begun to creep back in.  I had been mostly free of that for the past six months, and am now beginning to question the wisdom of my rapid taper. I have cancelled the surgery, which would have been next Monday.  It will still be necessary, but I have chosen to have more tests done at a regional cancer center to determine the extent of the disease.

 

Primarily I was quite disturbed by the answers I got at the local hospital when I voiced my concerns about being unable to take meds following surgery. Like many medical professionals, they essentially brushed aside my concerns, making me feel minimized.  In fact, that's pretty much how I have been treated by the medical community all along. 

 

They always act annoyed or irritated that I am wasting their valuable time with my petty problems.  Regarding my brief intro above, I had cried daily, sometimes all day and all night for over two years, until I DEMANDED an antidepressant from my doctor.  It was my own research that caused me to choose Effexor, and after the first year, it was very effective at stabilizing my emotions.

 

Now, just thinking about my reasons for wanting the A/D... the events in my life that put me on this path, my eyes are starting to water and my chest is getting tight. So I will have to end it here and put my mind to something else before I break down.

 

Thanks for reading.

[Altostrata]

4 hours ago, RobLee said:

Primarily I was quite disturbed by the answers I got at the local hospital when I voiced my concerns about being unable to take meds following surgery. Like many medical professionals, they essentially brushed aside my concerns, making me feel minimized.  In fact, that's pretty much how I have been treated by the medical community all along. 

 

Please don't take this personally, most of us have found we have to be assertive to get individualized attention.

 

Is there a support group for cancer patients in your area? You might find emotional support in talking to others. In my opinion, it's natural for you to be frightened and sad.

 

What is the pattern of the weepiness? Is it preceded by any particular thoughts or does it come out of the blue?

[RobLee]

The crying comes when I think of all the times in our marriage that should have been happy memories, but instead turned into her shouting at me and me crying about it for days, weeks or months.  They were totally unprovoked episodes.  I know this sounds like "a likely story", but she usually doesn't even remember these episodes.

 

She was schizophrenic and had been institutionalized in her youth.  We've been married nearly forty years, and I sometimes wonder if all this is tied to her history.  But I promised when we married that I would never bring up her past.  And I never tell anyone in RL about her past.  But it seems when I go out of my way to do something nice for her, she turns on me.  The greatest problem I've faced is that I have no one to talk with about all this.  I saw a therapist for a while but my wife complained about how much that was costing.  The therapist wants to meet her but she has declined, and I have not pushed her.

 

When the cancer finally made my situation unbearable I sought out a doctor who would be willing to prescribe Effexor. My research showed that it might help me forget, or at least be less reactive to her volatility.  After a year on it, we were able to have a discussion where I did not react emotionally.  We'd been okay since then, mainly because I could walk away from it.  I have never cried because of cancer.  The cancers have been difficult, but nothing compared to being her "whipping boy".

 

But today I crashed.  The taper seemed to have been going well, at least physically.  But posting this morning sent me off in a loop ruminating. I sobbed for an hour, took a booster dose of 37.5 Effexor (112.5mg total for today) and took a shower. That made me feel better.  I know the boost doesn't actually work right away, but I feel like I'm doing something about it.  "It's all in my head" as they say.

 

Some ppl in R/L ask why I'm trying to reduce my dosage. I figure if I'm going to be pushed off a cliff, I'd rather it be a 50ft cliff than a 100 ft cliff.

[RobLee]

I seem to be stuck at 112.5mg/day for now.  Doc is adding mirtazapine (CRF) hoping to bridge off venlafaxine for the surgery, which has now been postponed.  I'm adding the oral dissolving 30mg tablets starting next week.  We'll see how this goes.

[ChessieCat]

Please keep daily notes on paper so you refer back to it if needed.

[RobLee]

Yesterday I started my first week at 75mg/day, now with Remeron added for stability.  Last month I tried dropping whole capsule sizes every two weeks, and had a melt down at the start of my second week at 75.  So this is my second attempt to stabilize at 75.

 

If this week goes well then I hope to drop to 66mg next week and to 50mg the week after that. Hopefully by the day of surgery I will be at 37.5 and with the use of  Remeron oral dissolve tabs will be able to get by for a day or two without the Effexor.

 

Last week when starting the Mirt the hissing sound in my head was practically unbearable. It sounds very high pitched, like above canine frequency, constantly like chalk on a chalkboard. Seems to be not so bad this week, but now having a few visual anomalies... wavy lines and fluttering appearance when moving eyes. The visuals seem to be somewhat like the auditory anomalies that I had experienced last month, but which have now subsided somewhat.

 

Onward and Downward !!!

[RobLee]

Today I am under 70mg/day and am reducing by 2mg/day.  My caps have beads that weigh close to 1mg each so that makes it easier (or I should say, "close enough"). Hopefully I will be able to continue dropping 2mg/day until surgery in two weeks. Maybe I'll be able to get by on 37.5 once I am able to eat again.

 

The Remeron added some side effects of its own... mainly that my legs ache terribly from the moment I got up in the morning. Normally my legs wait until evening before the pain becomes crippling, so I stopped taking it two days ago. There appear to be no "new" SE's from discontinuing the Remeron, but my old friends buzzing in the head, auditory and some visual anomalies persist but I have become accustomed to them. Will update my signature eventually.

[Juan]

Hello @RobLee, how are you today?

So you have stopped taking Remeron, how long were you on it?

I see in your signature a rocket, is that for the 'California Rocket Fuel'? btw, I'm on it as you can see.

 

About Effexor, are you taking the capsules so you can manage the beads like me?

 

[Altostrata]

On 10/14/2018 at 1:31 PM, RobLee said:

Today I am under 70mg/day and am reducing by 2mg/day.  My caps have beads that weigh close to 1mg each so that makes it easier (or I should say, "close enough"). Hopefully I will be able to continue dropping 2mg/day until surgery in two weeks. Maybe I'll be able to get by on 37.5 once I am able to eat again.

 

The Remeron added some side effects of its own... mainly that my legs ache terribly from the moment I got up in the morning. Normally my legs wait until evening before the pain becomes crippling, so I stopped taking it two days ago. There appear to be no "new" SE's from discontinuing the Remeron, but my old friends buzzing in the head, auditory and some visual anomalies persist but I have become accustomed to them. Will update my signature eventually.

 

I am puzzled why you are adding new drugs and their side effects to the problems of tapering Effexor.

 

Did you ask your care team if you could continue your daily Effexor dose via intravenous liquid or feeding tube?

On 9/4/2018 at 6:35 PM, Altostrata said:

However, there may be a way for you reduce the risk of withdrawal syndrome and to continue taking Effexor throughout your surgery. You might ask your surgeon if you can get regular Effexor liquid through your feeding tube or in an intravenous drip as you recover from surgery. It has a shorter half-life, so you'd have to take it twice a day. They should be able to compound it in the hospital, this kind of delivery is common practice for people who cannot take oral medication. See Tips for tapering off Effexor (venlafaxine) for more information about liquid Effexor.

 

[RobLee]

Alto - Simple questions with complex answers.  Yes I spoke with several doctors and nurses about administering Effexor while I am on liquids and none of them seemed to care much. They said there was no liquid form they could order and making a special request seemed unthinkable.  So I'm back to the only person being concerned about it is me.   I made a list of concerns (there are other complicating matters as well) which I gave to the surgeon, the hospital admissions, and will give to the anesthesiologist.

 

In the meantime, a friend of my wife's told her that I should not be attempting to taper off A/D's without having a psychiatrist involved, and gave us her number. It was the psychiatrist who prescribed adding Remeron (Mirt) to the Effexor to keep me stable during my taper. That it did, but I also put on a lot of weight and had nightmares. Also it made my back and legs ache terribly, all day.  I had an accident twelve years ago that has left me partly disabled but most days I can get by until evening when my pain picks up and I can take something for it. The Mirt made me ache all day. So I stopped before I became dependent on it.

 

Juan - yes, the combination of Effexor and Remeron are know as California Rocket Fuel.  I found that online. Admittedly, the first couple days on Mirt gave me an extra boost and I got a lot done during those first few days and slept very well, but by the second week the side effects became overwhelming, and I stopped taking it. Yes, I have been counting Effexor beads and am down to about 50mg/day now. The Remeron did help keep me stable emotionally during the big drop under 75mg, which is where I had melted down before.

 

I've been offline a few days as I've been seeing a lot of doctors regarding my upcoming surgery, now eleven days away. I'm having some trouble sleeping, perhaps a residual effect of having taken the Remeron last week. So I've had to take an Ativan round 2AM when I find myself waking up a lot. Not a big deal. I've been thru this before when withdrawing from other drugs. What worries me is that the big day is rapidly approaching, and I have no idea what I will be told when I wake up from surgery... assuming that I do.

[Juan]

Dear @RobLee,

First of all, let's hope and pray that you will have good medical results and going to be ok during and after the surgery. Please let me/us know how it goes.

 

Btw, do you think you got a lot of weight on Mirtazapine because you were more hungry, or because it changed your metabolism, or both?

[RobLee]

23 hours ago, Juan said:

Btw, do you think you got a lot of weight on Mirtazapine because you were more hungry, or because it changed your metabolism, or both?

 

It must have affected my metabolism, because I did not seem to eat any differently.  I hear some have cravings for sweets, but I just ate normally but every morning I was a pound heavier.

 

Thank you for your kind thoughts.  I will certainly keep everyone informed how things go.

[RobLee]

It appears that I have successfully bridged to Cymbalta. That was not the original plan, but hopefully this will work out well.

 

As the day of surgery approaches I have had to discontinue all pain meds, including COX2 and NSAIDS due to bleeding risk. Not sure if I mentioned it previously but I am partially disabled due to a severe leg injury in 2005 and have relied on a number of pain meds over the years. Fortunately my pain is worst in the evenings, at least until my second week on Remeron. And the increased low back and primarily leg pain was the main incentive to discontinue Mirt a couple weeks ago.

 

The taper from Effexor was not moving fast enough, and even at 37.5mg once daily I was still concerned about how to take that while in the hospital. So about ten days ago I started adding a low dose of duloxetine to the venlafaxine, and over the following week increased that and eventually stopped taking the ven about five days ago.

 

So I am now on 60mg Cymbalta daily, which has helped with my OA pain somewhat in the absence of anti-inflammatories. And hopefully it will be less caustic on my stomach while on a liquid diet. There are still some auditory anomalies... hissing sound in my head and the "shoop" sound when I turn my head. I saw my shrink two days ago and he said those generally only occur during withdrawal, but for me the shooping has been going on for months and the hissing for years.

 

If the duloxetine keeps me out of the pit of despair (especially post anesthesia) then I'm guessing I'll likely remain on that "for life" or until the next crisis. If it poops out I guess I can always go back to Effexor.

[RobLee]

The deed is done. Surgery was eight days ago and I was on clear liquids until Saturday.  I took one 30mg Cymbalta the morning of surgery and was without any oral meds for about three days. I had a pain pump and the combination of opioid dreams plus the chirping sound in my head (from SNRI discontinuation) was irritating but I got thru it just fine.

 

The tumor appears to be non-malignant, but the pathologists still have not identified exactly what it was. About 10% of my small bowel was removed, near the stomach (where the liver and pancreas all join in) plus some blood vessels, so they did not want to give me any oral meds until fluids started moving again. With nowhere to go, even ice chips and saliva caused tremendous reflux the first few days.

 

I believe the Cymbalta bridge was a good move. If nothing else, it was gentler on my stomach than Effexor would have been. How well it works as an A/D and as an analgesic remains to be seen. It seems to be less powerful than Effexor, but I am under a lot less stress now so a gentler drug may work okay.  I did have a major crying fit just before leaving the hospital and was weepy for the rest of the day, but that is to be expected after such an experience.

 

Now I feel good. This may be my final post here. Thank you to those who contributed, and good luck to you all.

[Juan]

Hello @RobLee,

I'm glad to hear from you, thanks for being open about your medical condition and treatment.

Why are you leaving?

Are you planning to stay on Cymbalta?

I'm not judging you, because I can see that you have to deal with a lot, I have a chronic medical condition myself and we just can't scape from it, those medicines and their side effects.

 

Hope you're doing better,

J.

[RobLee]

Thank you @Juan, and good luck dealing with your own medical problems.  How to get beyond my necessary surgery without going thru withdrawal from Effexor was the primary problem that brought me here to SA. First I tried to taper, then tried to bridge, then finally just changed antidepressants.  Now that the surgery is behind me, I have no problem remaining on Cymbalta or Effexor "for life".  It does keep me more stable emotionally. The only annoying SE is the hissing noise in my head that is worse some days than others... but is a small price to pay for the improved stability and reduced volatility.

 

There are still some sad days. It happens. I may adjust the Cymbalta or go back to Effexor.  I am fortunate that my depression is situational... the result of circumstances in my life, rather than a primary condition due to, say, a chemical imbalance. And as I only have maybe 20 years left of my life, I may as well spend that time happy, rather than suffering with endless attempts to discontinue one med or another.

 

Certainly you should be able to understand that, as you too have to live with a potentially fatal disease every day. We never know what day will be our last. I'd rather not agonize over medications other than those that may be absolutely necessary to keep us alive. Thank you for your friendship.

[ChessieCat]

25 minutes ago, RobLee said:

a chemical imbalance

 

That is a myth.  It was debunked many, many years ago.  Unfortunately it is still being touted.  The drugs cause a chemical imbalance.

 

again-chemical-imbalance-is-a-myth-stop-the-lies-please

 

28 minutes ago, RobLee said:

I am fortunate that my depression is situational... the result of circumstances in my life

 

All the drugs do is numb the emotions.  They don't solve the problems.  They can actually cause the issues which they are supposed to help.  I suggest you read Your Drug May Be Your Problem by Dr Peter Breggin and Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker.

 

Learning the truth about psychiatric drugs will mean that you can make informed decisions.

 

It is also important to learn non drug coping techniques.  This is what I wrote to a member who was considering starting an antidepressant because he was experiencing live stresses.

 

"My own situation is that I had many major life stresses (ie external stress) from the age of 19 and ended up on an antidepressant in my mid-30s.  I'm now 61.  I've been on an antidepressant for about 25 years now.  If I had been taught non drug ways to cope when I was young, I most probably would not have ended up on an AD.

We all want an easy and quick fix.  ADs are not the magic pill that we are led to believe.  Gwen Olsen was a drug rep for 15 years.  Short video:  We are trained to misinform

 

The thing to understand is that ADs numb the emotions, they don't make the problems go away.  Most external stressors, and I understand not all (my husband got sick after we had been married for 2 years so that particular stress was on-going), generally resolve over time or at least lessen.  I learnt CBT 4 years ago and wish that I had been taught this before going an an AD.  I also didn't receive any counselling "back then".

 

My suggestion would be to explore all other avenues of non-drug methods of coping before even considering taking an AD. 

 

I think it would also be helpful if you learned more about the history and issues of psychiatric drugs.  Two good books are Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker (this book also explains the history of drugs) and Your Drug May Be Your Problem by Dr Peter Breggin.  This is a good start:  Video:  Simple Truths About Psychiatry - Series of 10 by Dr Peter Breggin

 

I also suggest that you check out some links on my website of things I have found on the internet (about half way down the page) https://adwithdrawal.weebly.com/information-links.html.  Also check out page 1 of my site too."

 

 

Some links:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

dealing-with-emotional-spirals

 

Dr Claire Weekes suffered from anxiety and learned and taught ways of coping.  There are videos available on YouTube.

 

Claire Weekes' Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

 

Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT) for anxiety, depression

 

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)
 

CBT Course:  An Introductory Self-Help Course in Cognitive Behaviour Therapy
 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes
 

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help ...

[RobLee]

Chessie, I understand that this message board is all about getting off of antidepressants, but for some such as myself that is not a goal in itself. Effexor served its purpose well and over the past few months presented an obstacle to resolving a more important problem.

 

I do not know what might be the most serious health issue that you or anyone else here may have faced in their lifetime, but for me, at this time, battling antidepressant withdrawal is just not a priority. This stage is now behind me. Thank you for your understanding.

[ChessieCat]

I certainly do understand.

 

Because of my own experience from being an AD for 25 years and also because of what I have learned in the last 3 years about psychiatric drugs, I just want to make sure that you have the information about them and that there are lots of non drug ways of coping.

 

At least you know that if you do decide to go off your drug that you will need to taper it.  I'm pleased about that.  Many members, like me, ended up here when we had gone off/reduced our drug too quickly.

 

I hope you also realise that you may not "need" to take your drug long term.  Many of the members have been told that we need the drug like a diabetic needs insulin.  That is absolute garbage.  And it's also good to be aware that psychiatric drugs can cause issues/turn on us, the response by the medical profession to which seems to be to increase the dose and/or add another drug.  I have seen some members which have ended up on frightening drug cocktails, sometimes with major drug interactions.

 

I wish you all the best for the future.

[RobLee]

UPDATE:  my surgery was eighteen months ago. Without a suitable intravenous substitute for venlafaxine, I had successfully tapered down to 38mg and crossed to Cymbalta.  As I had suspected, I was unable to eat solid food for a week, but by mid-week I was able to take Cymbalta and the withdrawal was not terribly bad.  Post-op I had the depression that I have come to expect from anesthesia, and eventually identified it as being caused by the muscle relaxant. Over the following months I did go back to Effexor, increased to 225mg, but then at the psych's urging tapered back to 150, which is where I now remain. And I believe that life with the AD is far better than without it, notwithstanding the side effects. I am emotionally much more stable now. And now nearing age 70 I suspect that I will be taking it as long as it keeps working... except, of course, when I will inevitably face another medical procedure which may require me to taper off. Which I now know I can do successfully.

 

Thank you (everyone) for all the information on this website. I have referred several others to this site also, because it has been so helpful.

[Cocopuffz17]

1 hour ago, RobLee said:

UPDATE:  my surgery was eighteen months ago. Without a suitable intravenous substitute for venlafaxine, I had successfully tapered down to 38mg and crossed to Cymbalta.  As I had suspected, I was unable to eat solid food for a week, but by mid-week I was able to take Cymbalta and the withdrawal was not terribly bad.  Post-op I had the depression that I have come to expect from anesthesia, and eventually identified it as being caused by the muscle relaxant. Over the following months I did go back to Effexor, increased to 225mg, but then at the psych's urging tapered back to 150, which is where I now remain. And I believe that life with the AD is far better than without it, notwithstanding the side effects. I am emotionally much more stable now. And now nearing age 70 I suspect that I will be taking it as long as it keeps working... except, of course, when I will inevitably face another medical procedure which may require me to taper off. Which I now know I can do successfully.

 

Thank you (everyone) for all the information on this website. I have referred several others to this site also, because it has been so helpful.

 

That is great to hear! Glad you are doing well and beat cancer twice! Amazing story  

[Rosetta]

Mmm, just in case someday you wish someone had told you:

Having reduced an AD once is thought to be a risk factor for future problems with reducing an AD. The brain seems to hold it against one.  Each time the degree of misery is possibly worse.  It’s not the case that because you did well this time you are simply that lucky guy who has no problem reducing an AD quickly.  
 

Please consider following a reduction method of 10% per month if you ever need to reduce again.  It seems that the first time is a freebie for some people.  Reducing by 10% per month may not be possible if you suddenly need to stop the drug, so, it would be best if you started a taper while you are feeling good.
 

I think many of us here at SA, including me, feel that slowly tapering off ADs NOW is the best choice for just about everyone.  There are always exceptions, of course.  Having 20 years left isn’t one.  I’m writing this for those who read your thread as I doubt you will change your mind.  However, I think having to taper at the age of 75 or 80 would be worse than being almost 70 and in good health.  At least consider reading the books that were recommended.  You don’t have to do anything you don’t agree is right for you, but being fully informed — well, the future you will wish the present you had read the books, I can tell you that with certainty.