mikeyboy: mirtazapine / Remeron taper, when to stop

[mikeyboy]

Admin note: link to benzo forum thread - mikeyboy: Help with Zoplicone taper

 

I've been trying to come off Mirtazapine, which I have been taking for 12 years, for 15 months now. I gradually reduced my dose from 15mg and then started tapering properly by 10% from 3mg 6 months ago. I got down to 1.8 mg and last week my doctor said I could just stop as it is not a therapeutic dose, which I did.

 

I feel ok, sleep is a bit more disturbed, but I'm worried this may not have been a low enough dose to stop at. If so, what is? 

 

Edited October 19, 2019 by Shep
added link to benzo forum thread

[Gridley]

On 4/9/2019 at 12:28 AM, mikeyboy said:

I'm worried this may not have been a low enough dose to stop at. If so, what is?

 

It's individual but 1.8 is too high.  (Doctors know nothing about tapering and the term "therapeutic dose" is a meaningless phrase concocted by the drug companies.)

 

How many days ago did you stop?  If it's only a couple of days, you could reinstate 1.8 and hold for a while until you stabilize, then start your 10% taper again.  It would be good if you could taper down to 0.1 or lower.  There is no hard and fast answer and you'll have to decide how low to go.  This link will give you some guidance.

 

When to end the taper and jump to zero?

 

When to end the taper and jump to zero?

 

If your post is about your personal taper, it's best to post in your own Introduction topic.  That way, all your information will be in one spot.

 

Edited April 13, 2019 by ChessieCat
added link

[mikeyboy]

Thanks for that. I stopped six days ago. That link doesn't;t work for some reason.

 

[ChessieCat]

Hi mikeyboy and welcome from me too,

 

Sorry for the delay in responding.  Some posts have not received the alerts which they usually do, which may have happened as a result of a software upgrade.

 

Here is the link:  When to end the taper and jump to zero?

[Carmie]

Hi mikeyboy, 

 

How are you doing since you jumped off 1.8mg? That’s quite a high dose to jump off, as Gridley said. These medications are really potent. I won’t be jumping off until I’m down to 0.0something myself. 

 

Did you end up updosing? Please let us know how you’re doing. 

 

Sending hugs🤗

[mikeyboy]

HI Carmie  Thanks for the hugs 😊. It's been over three weeks now and until recently was doing really well. First week was a bit shaky but ok, then I had really nice window of a week or so, but the last couple of days I've been suffering a bit. I still feel better than when I was on the medication though.

 

The worst thing has been the insomnia, cortisol spikes in the night. I've also feeling a loss of libido and reading some of the posts on here that scares me. I'm not sure now whether to reinstate and at what dose. Take it a bit easier. 

 

Some of the things that helped me to get to this stage is eating healthy, yoga, meditation, and believe it or not cold water swimming nearly every day. I'm lucky as I live by the sea, and I've been swimming since March when the sea is very cold here (I we are a wetsuit). I find it resets my nervous system, gives me a break from the symptoms and I get an endorphin high.

[Carmie]

Hi Mikeyboy, 

 

Yes, insomnia and cortisol spikes are so common in withdrawals. 

 

Do you go to bed snd get up at the same time each day. Do you stop looking at screens a couple of hours before going to bed. I’ve found both these things helpful. Some people have found making your room as dark as possible helps a little bit with the morning cortisol. 

 

Cold water swimming is fabulous for withdrawals for a lot of people. Cold water in general is good as it stimulates the vagus nerve. I’d love to live near the beach, it’s my happy place. 

 

Enjoy your swimming.💚

[mikeyboy]

I hd a really bad night last night and I decided to reinstate, I was originally down to 1.8mg and have started at about.5. Feel really disappointed and angry at myself. Gridley was right. Not sure if the dose is right but I will try.

 

 

[Carmie]

1 hour ago, mikeyboy said:

I hd a really bad night last night and I decided to reinstate, I was originally down to 1.8mg and have started at about.5. Feel really disappointed and angry at myself. Gridley was right. Not sure if the dose is right but I will try.

 

 

 

Hi Mickeyboy, 

 

I’m so sorry you’re struggling so much. Yes, jumping off at 1.8mg was definitely too high. It’s amazing how potent these meds are. Someone was saying today that the doctor told them to jump off 30mg because it was a low dose.What???

 

Please don’t feel angry at yourself. We can’t change the past, we can only look forward. 

 

Let us know how you go on 0.5mgs. 

 

Sending hugs🤗

[Maca44]

Im picking good info up here and learning alot. I can see why dropping my Mirt so fast has caused problems, you feel ok so think lets drop again then after a few days or weeks it hits you and you panic.

[Santino]

Hi Mikey Boy

1.8 MG is definitely high buddy. You have used MIrt for so many years so jumping off at that dose it is bound to cause your problems. You can read my last dose at my signature which was really very low. I stoped at that one cause i had no possibility to go even lower.. and now i am 99% normal again.

I believe you will be good. For the cortisol spikes at night try to take Vit C before sleep. The Vit C plays a cortisol regulator role in the body so it might affect you in a positive way.

Let us know how you will do buddy. 
All the best

Santino

[mikeyboy]

I’m writing this at 5am. I’m in hell, with Wd hitting me like a train. Extreme anxiety, can’t sleep more than 2-3 hours. Shaking. It’s absolutely horrible. I decided to reinstate.the previous night I took 1mg and last night 1.5 (approximately, it’s so hard to weigh at those sizes. I spoke to my doctor yesterday and asked him for a prescription of the water-based Mirtazapine but he was reluctant and said I should try a different drug.

[mikeyboy]

Topic title:  Mirtazapine taper: should I switch to Prozac

 

Reading about half life on the net and some say that withdrawal could be easier with a med with a longer half life, like Prozac. I’m struggling with tapering Mirtazapine so was wondering about switching to Prozac. Thoughts?

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by ChessieCat
added topic title

[ChessieCat]

It's generally better to taper the drug you are taking.  The reason is that you can still get withdrawal from the current drug and you might experience start up/side effects/adverse reaction to the new drug.  You won't know what is causing any issues if they occur.

 

the-prozac-switch-or-bridging-with-prozac

 

[Chris11]

Just my 2 cents but I wouldn’t jump on Prozac. It’s tough but the side effects do pass. I tapered from 7.5mg to 0 over a 3 month period. It took about 6 weeks for the really difficult symptoms to alleviate after stopping my last dose. But they did. Exercise, specifically cardio is your friend. So swimming is perfect.

[mikeyboy]

I've been taking 1mg now for five nights, Stabilised the first few nights but last night was really bad, only 3 hours sleep and now feeling shaky, wired, no interest in life and anxious. Thinking about titrating up to the dose I originally jumped off at, 1.8. Or should I stick with this for a while?

 

[mikeyboy]

6 hours broken sleep last night. Some blessed respite from thus nightmare. Feeling a little better now. Took 1mg Mirt before bed and then when woke at 2am took another 0.1 and slept well. At what pace should I updose?

 

Feeling wired and shaky. 

[mikeyboy]

I need some help. I jumped off Mirtazapine at 1.8 after a 14 month taper 4 weeks ago. I was fine for 3 weeks and then boom, WD hit really bad:  I decided to reinstate, starting at .5, first night then to 1mg for the next five nights, then 1.1 last night. I had some relief at first but the agititation and anhedonia and other symptoms are still quite strong. I followed the advice to reinstate at a low dose but now I'm thinking of updating back to 1.8 or 2. I need to be able to function. Is that a good idea? At what speed should I titrate upwards if so?

[mikeyboy]

Less than three hours sleep last night. Had waves of tiredness later on but as soon as I started to drop off I would jerk awake. Feeling absolutely crap. Ruminating on death. 

[Santino]

Hey Mikeyboy

It is completely normal WD this situation of yours. Do not worry and just continue to push forward. On the bad days just push through and try to enjoy the windows on the good days. 

As far as the dosing is concerned, if i was you i would not go upper. I would just stay at 1 MG and try to normalize there. 

On the other side i would add some supplements on the picture:

- Magnesium, vit B and vit C at night before sleep. Magnesium is a muscle relaxant, Vit B is food for your nervous system and Vit C is a cortisol producing system stabilizer. 
- Eat a Banana or a pot of cherries every night before sleep. They have natural melatonin which would help you to fell asleep naturally.
- Omega 3 Fish oil in the morning would be good as well.

On the very bad nights, i would take a strong tea made of Linden and Chamomile and that would do the trick. Maintain 6 hours of sleep every night and you will be OK. Waves of tiredness and anhedonia at this stage are completely normal. But the good news is that they pass...


All the best 

Santino

[Santino]

Hey Mikeyboy

It is completely normal WD this situation of yours. Do not worry and just continue to push forward. On the bad days just push through and try to enjoy the windows on the good days. 

As far as the dosing is concerned, if i was you i would not go upper. I would just stay at 1 MG and try to normalize there. 

On the other side i would add some supplements on the picture:

- Magnesium, vit B and vit C at night before sleep. Magnesium is a muscle relaxant, Vit B is food for your nervous system and Vit C is a cortisol producing system stabilizer. 
- Eat a Banana or a pot of cherries every night before sleep. They have natural melatonin which would help you to fell asleep naturally.
- Omega 3 Fish oil in the morning would be good as well.

On the very bad nights, i would take a strong tea made of Linden and Chamomile and that would do the trick. Maintain 6 hours of sleep every night and you will be OK. Waves of tiredness and anhedonia at this stage are completely normal. But the good news is that they pass...


All the best 

Santino

[Gridley]

2 hours ago, Santino said:

Vit B is food for your nervous system

 

In withdrawal vitamins B can be overstimulating.

 

Hypersensitive to B Vitamin or B-Complex  

 

[Gridley]

19 hours ago, mikeyboy said:

I decided to reinstate, starting at .5, first night then to 1mg for the next five nights, then 1.1 last night.

 It takes about 4 days for a dose change to get to get to full state in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.  So give the updose time to work before going higher.

[mikeyboy]

Thanks Gridley

 

[Santino]

21 hours ago, Gridley said:

 

In withdrawal vitamins B can be overstimulating.

 

Hypersensitive to B Vitamin or B-Complex  

 

Hi Gridley...

You are right but not all people are hypersensitive to VIT B. Anyway that is the reason i have written "if i was you" to the message i have written. Vit B can be taken even naturally by just adding a can of sardines in someone's diet. 

All the best

 

[Altostrata]

Hi, mikey.

 

What date did you reinstate 1mg? Please update your signature.

 

Are you taking it at the same time each night? Can you summarize how you've been sleeping every night since the reinstatement?

 

A lot of people find fish oil and magnesium supplements helpful, see
https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

Try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

[mikeyboy]

Hi @Altostrata

 

I reinstated at 9 days ago - 26 April. I had a really rough few days last week: I had suicidal thoughts, plus shaking badly, lots of tingling in the extremities, loss of lobido and Anhedonia. Very little sleep, (average 4 hours interrupted). Two days ago I stayed at my girlfriends and she looked after me and I managed to get a total of 7 hours, and felt so much better most of yesterday -  a nice window I guess. Last night it came back a little but not so bad, but I didn't sleep much, maybe 3 hours in total. 

 

The worst thing is whenever my body starts to relax it jerks and I'm awake again.

 

Mikey

[mikeyboy]

I need some help. I am still taking 1.2 mg. Have been since May but I haven't stabilised. In fact things have got much worse. I now don't sleep more than an hour or a night and have really bad Hypnic jerks, I'm so tired but when I try to sleep some part of my body jerks, even sometimes my throat. Should I reinstate or taper?  I'm stuck. Doc has given me  benzo which helps but I can't use it long term obviously. I need to function.

[mikeyboy]

So the doctor gave me Zoplicone. Stupidly (because I was desperate) I didn’t read about this drug. It works great and has given me major relief from my symptoms but I realise this will wear off. So what do I do now? Which one do I taper first? Since the Zopiclone is giving me relief from The Mirtazapine maybe is should continue with the Mirt taper.  

[Bee5]

Zopiclone is a z-drug, and is dependence-forming, just like benzos. And you might get paradoxical reactions on it. I had a bad experience with zolpidem (a similar z-drug for sleep), and will not touch it again.