luvkids: What do I do now?

[Gridley]

11 hours ago, luvkids said:

more delayed withdrawal, or just covid anxiety?

The covid thing is affecting everyone, especially those of us in WD.  It sounds to me like it's covid fear that's ramping up your withdrawal symptoms.  And it's probably also the reverse: WD magnifies everyday problems, fears and aches and pains.    It's common for different symptoms to appear throughout the recovery process.  No one knows when this covid thing will end so the best thing to do is use non-drug coping skills.  Here are some specific ones for anxiety:

 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes
 

VIDEO:  Peace from Nervous Suffering - Claire Weekes (1 hour) (http://sendvid.com/vgquc1dg)
 

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help …

 

10 minute Restorative Yoga for Relaxation | Up the wall

 

I've had good results from the yoga pose.

 

Here are some more non-drug skills that you might take a look at:

 

 Non-drug techniques to cope

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium (glycinate is a good form) and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

 

 

 

[Gridley]

On 7/6/2020 at 7:44 PM, luvkids said:

, is this more delayed withdrawal,

 

 One of our moderators, Brassmonkey, who was on Paxil for many years before tapering off, wrote a post, "It doesn't end at zero," which he's currently updating and which should be available soon.  The upshot of the post, as the title indicates, is that withdrawal doesn't end at zero and there are often going to be waves of withdrawal symptoms at various times months and months out.  So what you're experiencing is completely normal and is typical of post-zero withdrawal.  

 

Regarding anxiety, I've found this restorative yoga pose to be very helpful in dealing with anxiety.

 

10 minute Restorative Yoga for Relaxation | Up the wall

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

 

[luvkids]

Completely normal, but horridly awful!!  So I need to resist the urge to start some kind of med when things are really bad?  When I have a good day, or part of a day I can convince myself that things will get completely better.  But when it is bad, I just long for relief.

[Gridley]

1 minute ago, luvkids said:

So I need to resist the urge to start some kind of med when things are really bad? 

That would be my recommendation.  You have made it this far, you are healing, and you have made great progress.  Plus you have no idea what effect the new drug will have. Things will get better, as you realize when you're having a good day.

 

 Everyone's different, and I can't give you a timeline, but it doesn't go on forever.  When @brassmonkey posts his update on "It doesn't end at zero," I will alert you when I see it.  I think you'll find it very helpful.

[brassmonkey]

If you're meaning that portion of the thread "Are We There Yet? How Long Will Withdrawal Take?"  it has been released and can be found here:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/23081-are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take/?tab=comments#comment-492502

 

[luvkids]

Well, I learned a hard lesson this afternoon.  I had my 2 granddaughters over to do a sewing lesson.  I was not sure they were coming, and I had to do a bunch of last minute preparations before they arrived.  And the younger one had to do some reading with me too.  Most of the time they come over and just play, which is actually healing for me....watching them play and have fun and interacting with them..  But this was very stressful trying to keep them both involved in sewing, putting up with the little one's whining and saying, "This is TOO hard!", etc.  My anxiety shot thru the roof, and I realized I should have just had them over to play.  Had I not been going thru a delayed withdrawal wave, I would likely have been fine.  No more lessons till this latest withdrawal period ends.

[ChessieCat]

We all make mistakes.  So long as we learn from them.

 

It's always good to have a backup plan/Plan B or sometimes we need an escape plan so that if things don't go to plan we can change to something easier/more suitable without having to try to think of something when we aren't coping well.

[luvkids]

On 7/16/2020 at 12:43 PM, Gridley said:

That would be my recommendation.  You have made it this far, you are healing, and you have made great progress.  Plus you have no idea what effect the new drug will have. Things will get better, as you realize when you're having a good day.

 

 Everyone's different, and I can't give you a timeline, but it doesn't go on forever.  When @brassmonkey posts his update on "It doesn't end at zero," I will alert you when I see it.  I think you'll find it very helpful.

Thanks for the encouragement.   It has been really bad the last few days, and with hardly any sleep, I can barely function.  My time release sleep aid (melatonin plus a few other things) is no longer working.   Husband is beginning to.pressure me to go to the doctor.  Part of me wants to give up and get help....any help.  I have an appt. with a psychologist this week....hopefully he can help me figure out how to cope with the covid anxiety that set this all off.  Crazy thing is that I had no real reason to go off Paxil.  I was doing fine and just decided I no longer wanted to be on a drug.  Plus the reason for starting it had loooooong since resolved itself.  I am beginning to doubt that decision.  Please help!

[ChessieCat]

Q:  What dose of melatonin are you taking?

 

Q:  And what other things?

 

Q:  Have you tried having an epsom salt (magnesium) bath?  Don't use too much to start with.

 

Q:  What non drug coping techniques are you using?

 

Check out the list of topics on this page.  Scroll down the page a bit for the links for self help. 

 

https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/selfhelp.htm

 

If the psychiatrist suggests a drug, I suggest that you post here about what has been prescribed BEFORE taking it.

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by ChessieCat

[luvkids]

My sleep supplement is Sleep 3, which has 3 layers and is time released.  I contains a total of 10 mg. melatonin, tho it is not released all at once., plus 200 mg l-theanine, and chamomile, lavender, lemon balm, and valerian.  Before this covid thing started, it usually worked well for me, putting me to sleep and helping me go back to sleep when I awoke during the night.  I also take 600 mg. of magnesium glycinate at bedtime.  I have tried different formulations of melatonin over the years....some chewable and some not.  All seemed to help...for awhile.  I also take a multi vitamin plus extra vitamin d, c, and calcium.  These are things I have taken for many years.  And Vitamin k-2 for my osteoporosis.  10 months ago when I went thru my first episode of delayed withdrawal, I tried using CBD oil, and it really helped ease the anxiety, many times making it disappear.  I had not used it since last September, but have been trying it again, but it does not seem to help like it did before.

I have never tried an Epsom salt bath.  What does that do?  

For coping techniques, I have tried deep breathing, to no avail, exercise (jumping on my mini-trampoline and going for walks) which rarely seems to help.  Regardless, I walk daily, and sometimes try to do some core and strengthening exercises. I tried the "up the wall" yoga pose suggested by someone on here, but that did nothing.  Lots and lots of prayer!  I keep a daily log of symptoms and times they occur which helps me remember when I had good days, tho there have been none lately.  Have you found any coping skills that really help?

The one other long withdrawal episode I had lasted about a month.  I am pretty sure the anxiety over covid is what set me off this time, and since it could continue who know how long, I am not sure I can continue to cope for an endless amount of time.

[ChessieCat]

3 hours ago, luvkids said:

I also take a multi vitamin plus extra vitamin d, c, and calcium. 

 

When do you take these?

 

Vitamin D is best taken first thing in the morning.

 

The multivitamin probably contained B6 which can be activating so it would also be best taken in the morning.

 

Calcium if taken at the same time as magnesium or within two hours cancels out the magnesium

 

To get relief from anxiety it is better to take magnesium throughout the day.  I've stopped my magnesium several and restarted it and noticed a difference in my anxiety each time.  I've found taking it twice daily is helpful and if I am feeling more anxiety I sometimes take an extra half a tablet in the middle of the day.

 

3 hours ago, luvkids said:

I have never tried an Epsom salt bath.  What does that do? 

 

Epsom salts is magnesium and it is absorbs through the skin.  You need to be careful not to use too much, especially if you are also taking magnesium.  See the Magnesium topic.

 

3 hours ago, luvkids said:

For coping techniques, I have tried deep breathing, to no avail, exercise (jumping on my mini-trampoline and going for walks) which rarely seems to help.  Regardless, I walk daily, and sometimes try to do some core and strengthening exercises. I tried the "up the wall" yoga pose suggested by someone on here, but that did nothing.  Lots and lots of prayer!  I keep a daily log of symptoms and times they occur which helps me remember when I had good days, tho there have been none lately.  Have you found any coping skills that really help?

 

Some non-drug coping work straight away.  However, the effect of some/many are cumulative.  For example relaxation techniques.  The idea is to incorporate them several times a day.  Set a reminder so you don't forget.  That way instead of waiting until the anxiety/stress is at its peak you can help to nip it in the bud.  And once you have practised it for a while it becomes second nature.  You can recognise earlier when you are starting to become anxiety and you more automatically use your relaxation technique.

 

So instead of      oooooooooooooooooooooooo

it's more              ooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

4 hours ago, luvkids said:

contains a total of 10 mg. melatonin, tho it is not released all at once.

 

Even if it's not released all at one, 10mg seems like a large dose.  Does the bottle tell you what period it is released over?

 

Sometimes when you are taking too much of a drug/s and/or supplement which is sedating, you can get a paradoxical reaction.  If the brain/body senses that you are too sedated it tries to keep you awake.

 

From the Melatonin topic:

 

On 4/7/2011 at 11:26 AM, Altostrata said:

Large doses of melatonin do NOT aid sleep -- they might cause your oversensitive brain to wake up, instead. I found when I took more than 2mg of melatonin, I was weepy in the morning. If you get this or a paradoxical reaction (waking) or are dopey in the morning, it's a sign you're taking too much.

[luvkids]

I take all my vitamins, except the magnesium and melatonin, in the morning with breakfast.  I forgot to mention that I also take fish oil.  Should the fish oil be taken all at once or broken up over 2 or more times during the day?  I use 4 capsules, so I could break it up.  Nothing on the package indicates how long the melatonin takes to release.  The first layer has l-theanine plus the herbs, the middle layer has quick release melatonin, and the bottom layer has time release melatonin.  It used to work like a charm for me, combined with magnesium.  Ok, my calcium citrate supplement has magnesium in it.  

so perhaps I should take 1 magnesium in the morning and take the calcium with lunch, and then 2 more magnesium at bedtime?  I am taking far less calcium than was recommended for osteoporosis , since I also get some from my diet and do not want the excess calcium to line my arteries.

[ChessieCat]

I take my fish oil twice a day.  Omega-3 Fish Oil

 

1 hour ago, luvkids said:

so perhaps I should take 1 magnesium in the morning and take the calcium with lunch, and then 2 more magnesium at bedtime? 

 

You could try doing that and see how it goes.

 

However, only make one change at a time, otherwise if things worsen/improve you won't know what was caused it.

 

the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable

 

[luvkids]

Oh, man.....the  insomnia and anxiety are drowning me!  I have tried lots of the suggestions for sleep, to no avail.  Some nights I do not go to sleep at all, and rarely get more than 4 hours of broken sleep.This cannot continue.  I can barely function with this level of exhaustion....afraid to drive since it probably is not safe with being so tired.  I am a slim person, and I have lost 10 pounds in the past 4 months, mainly from anxiety....if that is what you call a pounding heart, ache in chest, lump in throat, and waves of awful feeling thru my torso.  I have to do something, but I don't know what.  Has anyone used magnesium water to successfully ease anxiety?  Last night the anxiety raged all night long.....I usually do not have it at night....still going on 15 hours later....and I got zero sleep last nite.  Talked to my doctor who suggested trazodone ( tried some years ago to no avail) or gabapentin for sleep.  How can I heal if I cannot sleep???

[ChessieCat]

I apologise in advance if I repeat something which I have already posted.

 

1 hour ago, luvkids said:

Has anyone used magnesium water to successfully ease anxiety?

 

You can add magnesium to water yourself.  You don't have to buy "magnesium water".  Magnesium

 

 

Melatonin.  You could try taking a "simple" metatonin instead of the complex that you are taking.  Some members find that something which did work stops working.  It might be that one of the ingredients has done this.

 

 

Please note that it is best to try things one at a time and to only start with a small amount to see how your react.

 

the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable

 

1 hour ago, luvkids said:

I have tried lots of the suggestions for sleep, to no avail.

 

Q:  What have you tried?

 

Q:  Do you get 1/2 hour gentle exercise, eg walking, during the day?

 

Q:  Do you drink/eat anything containing caffeine, eg coffee, cola, tea, chocolate?

 

Q:  Do you drink alcohol?

 

Q:  Do you do any relaxation, calming or meditation throughout the day?

 

You might find these helpful.  One is a female voice, the other a male voice.

 

https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/music/FirstAidPanicF.mp3

 

https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/music/FirstAidPanicM.mp3

 

Sometimes when we experience a withdrawal symptom we can make it worse because we are scared.  This is called "second fear".  Learning and using non drug coping techniques can help with this.

 

Have you check out Claire Weekes.  There are some YouTube videos, just do a search for her name.

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by ChessieCat

[luvkids]

For sleep I have tried varying doses of melatonin, magnesium at bedtime, deep breathing, "up the wall" yoga pose, and listening to a sleep hypnosis you tube while in bed.  I take a 30+ minute walk daily.  My doctor told me to walk fast to get my heart rate up to 1.5 times its normal rate for 20-30 minutes, since that is what it takes to release those "feel good" endorphins.  Not a good idea?  I normally have 1 cup of coffee with breakfast, but stopped that about a week ago.  No soda or tea.  Occasional piece of chocolate.  No alcohol.  Multiple times during the day I do "belly breathing" deep breathing.  I find it sometimes helps if the anxiety is  very mild, but not so much if it is bad.  I started listening to Claire  Weekes, but did not get much beyond her introduction stuff.  Have not tried any other calming activities.  Suggestions?   Thanks for your speedy replies!

[ChessieCat]

6 hours ago, luvkids said:

I take a 30+ minute walk daily.

 

Q:  What time of day do you walk?  If you walk late in the day you might find it better to walk earlier because the increased activity late in the day may hype you up and make it more difficult to sleep.

 

Q:  Do you watch any activating TV programs or play activating games before bed?

 

Q:  Do you use your computer or phone during the evening?

 

Q:  How close to bedtime do you have your dinner?

 

Q:  Do you have a calming routine leading up to bedtime?  This can help to signal to your brain/body that it is time for rest.

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by ChessieCat

[ChessieCat]

I've just found the list of links which Alto, SA's owner, gives members:

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

What is the sleep cycle?

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

 

White noise devices for sleep

 

Nightmare While Awake? Sleep Paralysis, Hypnogogic Hallucinations, etc.

[bijay]

Hi Luvkids, seems like you are taking a lot of supplements.  In my own experience, even the most innocent of supplements can interfere with sleep.  This includes collagen, vitamin D, vitamin b12.  Multiple vitamins in particular can have levels of b vitamins much, much higher than the RDA.  More is not necessarily better, and as mentioned earlier, that also applies to melatonin.

 

A couple of tips that have helped me ...

 

- I have a single, calming ritual I do every night that signifies I am going to bed.  For me, after turning off the light, I listen the same 10 minute guided meditation from the Calm app.  It has almost become a conditioned response to sleep when I hear that voice.  
 

- If I can’t  sleep because of a busy or anxious mind, I count breaths.  First,  I breathe in while counting to eight, hold for eight, then exhale for eight.  I say the numbers in my head, sometimes even picture drawing them on a chalkboard.  I do that until it tires me out, then do more natural, slower breathing, four counts in, six counts out.  I just start again if my mind wanders.  This works both for falling asleep and for times I wake up too early. 
 

But whatever tips or tricks you try, think of these not as attempts to sleep, but attempts to build good sleep habits.  Sleep we cannot control, but we can build consistency in how we support our sleep, and our brains love that.  

[luvkids]

Hi bijay.  I have the Calm app, but have not yet used it.  Which guided meditation do you use?  I take all my vitamins, except for magnesium, first thing in the morning with breakfast.  Do you think taking them early still might interfere with sleep?  I know vitamin d is very important for us seniors since we no longer can synthesize it very well from the sunshine.  And since I have osteoporosis, I feel I do need to take it.

[luvkids]

ChessieCat, I try to do my walk in the morning, although occasionally I walk after dinner.  I pretty much watch no TV, except a movie in the evening now and then; maybe I should use my blue light blocking glasses for movies.  I do use my computer and phone in the evening, but on both devices I have blue light blocking apps that change the light emitted at sunset.  I also have some blue light blocking glasses that I use when I read in bed, which I do till my eyes slam shut.   We eat dinner about 3 hours before bedtime.  As for a bedtime routine, I shower, get in bed, and read till I cannot keep my eyes open any longer.  I think part of what is going on now is fear/anxiety about not being able to get to sleep, which seems hard to overcome.  I do have the Calm app, and I think I will try some of the things on that.

[ChessieCat]

35 minutes ago, luvkids said:

maybe I should use my blue light blocking glasses for movies. 

 

That would probably be a good idea.

 

35 minutes ago, luvkids said:

I think part of what is going on now is fear/anxiety about not being able to get to sleep, which seems hard to overcome.

 

Yes, it's called anticipatory anxiety.  And I understand what it's like and have experienced it recently.

 

Have you every done CBT, Cognitive Behaviour Therapy?  I call it Change Bad Thinking.  About 5 or so years ago I did an online free CBT course with real person support which the Australian government has provided through a university and I found it very helpful.

 

This website has excellent self help resources.  Scroll down the page to see the list.

 

https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/selfhelp.htm

[luvkids]

Actually, I am scheduled to start CBT this week.  I found out that the psychiatry dept. of my health insurer provides it.  Also am taking an online sleep class tomorrow thru them.  Hope

they help.

[ChessieCat]

👍 ☺️

[bijay]

@luvkids I also know exactly what you mean about the fear of not falling asleep.  
 

Calm is a great app.  I use the 10 minute “Deep Sleep” by Tamara Levitt, which you can find by pressing the “Sleep” tab at the bottom. I find her voice very soothing.  Calm has a lot of resources specific to sleep and anxiety that have helped me, including meditations, music, even bedtime stories.  A good place to start would be the 7 Days of Sleep meditation series.

 

 I once was wired for two days after taking a b vitamin supplement in the morning, so it didn’t matter the time of day I took it.  But the amounts taken matter too.  If you are sensitive, like I am, you may at least want to steer clear of the kinds of megadoses that are common now, unless your doctor has directed you otherwise.  It may not be the root cause of your sleep issues, but it may not be helping either.

[luvkids]

Ok friends.  I was freaking out my husband yesterday with my delayed withdrawal symptoms....crying. rocking, moaning, and being completely non-functional.  It has been hell.....much worse than the months of symptoms I went thru last August/September.   One of the worst parts is the horrific insomnia....literally lying awake ALL night with awful anxiety.   Trying deep breathing,  visualization, sleep meditations, more deep breathing,  to no avail.  Anyway, he called my healthcare office to make an appointment In psychiatry for me. Have not yet gotten an appt. and have never been to a psychiatrist. I will occasionally take xanax at nite just to get one nite of sleep.  But I only have a few left, and doc will give me no more.  He prescribed trazodone which I have yet to take.  I will usually have a somewhat better day if I do sleep.  But I cannot continue like this with little or no sleep.  My fear of not getting to sleep is now huge.  I am 72, and much as I hate the idea, am wondering if I should just go on some AD and realize that I will likely be on it for the rest of my life.  I realize that this idea is not supported here, but when I am ceasing to function and only looking forward to that occasional night of taking xanax and being oblivious to the hell, for a night,  I realize something has to give.  While on paxil I had no problems,  side effects,  or issues.....just decided to stop it.  Beginning to think that was a stupid idea.  I am certain covid and all the unrest in our nation is what set me off, and God only knows when that will end.  This is not living.  Since my previous wave lasted about a month, with a mix of good and bad days, I have given myself a month this time before seeking medical help.  That month is about up.  Is there ever a legitimate reason to use antidepressants? 

[Gridley]

@luvkids

 

I'm sorry you're going through this.  I have sleep problems too and I sympathize.  We can't tell you whether or not to go back on AD's.  That has to be your decision.  But  I'd like to raise a few points for you to consider.

 

1.  You've succeeded in getting off Paxil, probably the most difficult AD to break free of.  That's a remarkable accomplishment.

2.  You over a year into the healing process.  You have had some good days and that shows you're healing. Healing is not linear; there will be good days and bad.  But the trend in healing will be slowly upward.  It's frustrating slow but it is happening every moment.

3.  I know you're desperate for sleep and relief, but there is no guarantee that a different AD will help with your withdrawal.  These drugs are all different and a new drug may have no effect on your sleep or other WD symptoms.  

 

This post from Brassmonkey was recently updated:

 

 It Doesn’t end at “0”

 

This post from Apace43, one of our moderators and a veteran of the sleep wars, was helpful to me in my attitude toward the terrible WD insomnia.

 

There is, unfortunately, no "silver bullet" to withdrawal or any of its symptoms, including insomnia.  If there were, SA would be a much smaller site than it is at this point.  Sadly, it continues to grow as more and more people get caught in the psychiatric medication "web."

 

Insomnia and disordered sleeping is a hallmark of psychiatric medication withdrawal.  It starts earlier than that with many studies making it clear that SSRIs (and other psych meds) frequently suppress REM sleep for those who take the meds.  https://www.sleepio.com/articles/sleep-aids/antidepressants-and-sleep/  Given this as a backdrop, it should be no surprise that coming off the meds can wreak havoc on sleep.  The good news, however, is that the brain works hard to achieve homeostasis and, all other things being equal, the brain will return to a place where sleep becomes, as it should be, a matter of routine.  How long that takes for any one person is impossible to predict. 

 

So, what do you do?  In no particular order, some of the things to try:

• Don't place too much significance on sleep.  Rest should be the key and when your body absolutely needs to sleep it will.  The anxiety that comes with lying awake and saying "I must sleep" is far worse than the not sleeping.  It's hard but it can be done.
• Try a journaling practice before bed -- get out the things that are on your mind and add 3 things you are grateful for from the day
• Get a sleep ritual in place so that you do the same thing day after day and start to repair your circadian rhythms
• Take a warm bath with epsom salts few hours before bedtime and add in a cup of chamomile tea
• Use lavender essential oils in a diffuser at bedtime
• Exercise early in the day so that you aren't activated near bedtimeGet outside and get some sunlight early in the day so that your rhythms are reestablished
• Make sure you have a consistent bedtime 
• Try not to be too activated in the couple of hours before bed and, of course, no caffeine
• Add a meditation practice
• Try yoga
• Go for walks in nature

Most insomnia is the result of the body being "hyperstimulated."  It is very hard to calm down an overstimulated body, especially when it is the result of chemical cascades that come as a result of medication use and withdrawal.  But, it can be done to a certain degree and the skills learned will provide valuable as your body improves over time.  

 

From my own perspective, my sleep is still not great, but it it better than it was.  I went through many stretches of 2 or 3 days with zero or an hour or two a night of sleep.  At this point, I have the occasional sleepless night, but most nights I'm good for at least 5 and usually closer to 6 hours.  By "normal" people standards that's not great, but it feels pretty good when compared to 0 or 2-3 hours a night.  As the saying goes, "in the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king!"

 

Try not to let it become the dominant factor in your life.  Over time, it will get better and you will heal.  Just do your best to continue to live your life what your brain is repairing itself.

 

----

For encouragement, take a look at this post from NZ11, one of our members from a few years back.

"12 months drug free is a big accomplishment to throw away please think very carefully.

I would like to tell you that I was pretty much non functional, unemployed and unemployable for the first three years of wdl .

It is only in the 7th yr I have returned to work and  I am now holding down a job I couldnt have done it any sooner.

I don't say this to scare you but so that you can see things in perspective and that this is a long journey. 

There is no guarantee that a ri will work and in fact I have witnessed many in which things got terribly worse.

The first two years I found very difficult but slowly and gradually things  improved. I am talking years. So we need to be thinking years not months here.

Many report improvements in year two and more so in yr three. I will be honest and tell you that at 12 months I also thought much about ri to find relief. I was encouraged to stay the course and I did. I am so glad I did. At about 18 months I got my first window.  

Say you do go ahead and ri and improve...then what? you suddenly want to taper off again. I can tell you now from my experience that every successive ri preceeded a more difficult exit attempt. imo it is better to be out wishing you were in than in wishing you were out. 

 

What would I do if I were you? I would continue to stay the course drug free. Refuse to ever take a psychoactive drug again. Period. 

Your brain and cns are working frantically behind the scenes to repair this pharmaceutical assault please be patient. We have all had to learn a new level of patience here. It may appear that things are getting worse at times and that may well be the case it happened with me also but then there would be a few days of blue sky. I started to see worse days as the body going into overtime with healing. Please don't give up hope."

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

[Hanna72]

@luvkids I am sorry to hear about your struggles.
There is a lot of thoughts and emotions that hit everyone in this COVID situation we are in now. 

25 minutes ago, Gridley said:

1.  You've succeeded in getting off Paxil, probably the most difficult AD to break free of.  That's a remarkable accomplishment.

2.  You over a year into the healing process.  You have had some good days and that shows you're healing. Healing is not linear; there will be good days and bad.  But the trend in healing will be slowly upward.  It's frustrating slow but it is happening every moment.

3.  I know you're desperate for sleep and relief, but there is no guarantee that a different AD will help with your withdrawal.  These drugs are all different and a new drug may have no effect on your sleep or other WD symptoms.  

I totally agree with Gridley, what a huge accomplishment getting off Paxil. Well done. With that said, we have to find it within ourselves to keep our thoughts and emotions under control. Yes we can always get back on meds and be numb or we can reach within ourselves and find comfort. It’s harder then being medicated, but so much more gratifying being clear minded in the end.

Stay safe, and hugs to you🙏

[bijay]

Dear @luvkids my heart goes out to you.  Please be gentle on yourself and remember that anyone can have problems sleeping, regardless of any past history with ADs.

 

Also, please consider giving your CBT counselor a chance to address your anxiety around insomnia before going back on an AD.  You still have an appointment coming up soon?

 

And here is something easy to do that has helped me some desperate nights, as recommended by my therapist.  If you are tired of lying in bed feeling anxious, stop doing it.   Get up and do something relatively calming for you.  For me it was lying down on the sofa, lights low, reading or watching infomercials.  Trying to stay awake helped me feel more in control, helped soften the anxiety, and whether I dozed off or not, it was better than what I was doing before.   

 

Sending good thoughts your way. 

[ChessieCat]

Just now, bijay said:

Also, please consider giving your CBT counselor a chance to address your anxiety around insomnia before going back on an AD.  You still have an appointment coming up soon?

 

Good suggestion.

[luvkids]

Well, getting off Paxil was actually pretty easy....no symptoms at all while tapering off over a 7 month period.  No problem at all until 3 months out (one month of nasty delayed withdrawal) and now,  14 months out.  I realize that my experience has probably been a lot easier than most people on this site, but that knowledge does not make what I am currently in the middle of feel any easier.  I also know that there is no guarantee that going back on a drug will solve the problems.  I was never "numb" on Paxil nor were there any bad side effects...I just felt well and free from depression.  And in general, my sleep was better than before taking it. It really did work well for me, but never in all those  years on it did anyone ever suggest discontinuing it.  Monday I have my first appt. with the psychiatrist, which is necessary before beginning CBT.  Even tho I do not like taking sleep meds, I plan on asking him if he could give me a prescription for Xanax to use OCASSIONALLY when i cannot take the exhaustion any more.  It is the only one I have tried that puts me right to sleep and which I wake up without feeling super groggy.  And it does not seem to affect my WD symptoms.  My GP won't prescribe it, but I was told psych. might.  I am fully aware of the dangers of addiction and misuse, and have used it in a very limited fashion over the years.  As mentioned, GP prescribed Trazodone, but I am a bit leery about trying that.  Anybody have thoughts on Trazodone?  Also, suggestions how to respectfully talk to the psychiatrist about what I believe I am going thru, since I assume he will not believe that withdrawal could be happening so far out?

[luvkids]

Just got a call from health care....earliest appt. to begin CBT is August 18.  I told them I was getting desperate, and they said they would try to get me in sooner.  Even then, I have no idea how frequent the therapy appt. will occur.  Apparently with all the mental health issues due to covid, they are slammed with patients.  Tried trazodone last nite....not good.  Will not take it again.  Soooo groggy today.  Another symptom I have not seen addressed here is loss of appetite and weight loss.  A year ago when I had my first wd symptoms, I was briefly depressed and had a hard time eating....lost 5 lbs. in maybe 2 weeks.  I am a slim person who does not need to lose weight.   This time, so far, I am down 10 lbs. and looking way too skinny.  For the last several months I have eaten fairly normal meals, but rarely anything in between meals.  Appetite is definitely down.  But the last week I have been having to almost force myself to eat and eating a lot less.  Simply cannot choke down more food.  Up till now I have not felt that depression was a main symptom....more the anxiety and awful gut feelings, plus the horrific insomnia.  When I am so exhausted, nothing seems good, so not sure if that is depression or just exhaustion.  When I manage to have a calmer day, things definitely look better.  The weight loss does have me concerned.  

[Gridley]

20 hours ago, luvkids said:

Anybody have thoughts on Trazodone? 

 

This link explains the problems associated with Trazodone.  It has negative interactions with many otherpsychiatic drugs should you decide to go back on AD's. 

 

Tips for tapering off trazodone (Desyrel)

 

 

 

 

 

[bijay]

@luvkids That is not an extraordinarily long wait time to see someone, regardless of the pandemic.  During your first appointment you can work with your therapist to decide how often you see him/her.  Teletherapy is a good option too now.
 

Stress can cause weight loss.  When someone is in fight-flight mode, digestion is pretty low on the list of priorities in the body.   If there is anything you can do that is calming, such as deep breathing, try it before and after meals.  The app Calm has short breathing exercises under the More tab.

[luvkids]

I do deep breathing many tines a day.  Will try before eating.  Just getting hard to eat at all.

[bijay]

Me too - the side effects of the drug I am weaning from have really affected my digestion, and have also caused a lot of weight loss.  Good for you for all the deep breathing you do.  Keep at it kiddo ...