Bea123: amitriptyline

[Bea123]

Hello,

I am a 31 years old italian doctor. I was prescribed amytriptiline for tension headache by a neurologist. I started with a very small dose ( 2 drops 4 mg First 3 days and 6 mg 9 days). After the second days i started to have fasciculations so on the 12th day i stopped cold Turkey because the doc said the dose was so small and also the duration that i could Just stop It. So i did but u started to have burn all over my body, head shakiness specially during the night, bad fasciculations, my heartbeats changed became faster but less Powerful. I cant stand now and im intolerant to efforts. Ive Lost 7 lgs of muscles and i had tonic breats which Is now fluffy. Also i had mental changes, in part due to the med (brain noise) and i cant feeel emotions, only desperation.

This made me so depressed i wanted to die and ive got checked by a neurologist Who told me It was fine so send me to a psychiatrist Who put me on Prozac. 

I also dont have sensitivity all over my body and this effect also my sexual sensitivity. 

What do you think? I think It Is a permanent damage. Maybe the drug destroyed some neuronal cells (muscles, sensitivity and brain ). Do you have any advice?

Thank you,

Beatrice

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Bea.

 

Some people have immediate severe bad reactions to serotonergics. After they quit, they continue to have symptoms very much like post-acute withdrawal syndrome (PAWS). As in withdrawal syndrome and PAWS, this means your nervous system was shaken up by the drug and needs time to settle down. Recovery tends to be very gradual, please be patient.

 

Read What is withdrawal syndrome?

 

Are you taking Prozac now? What is the dosage? When did you start it? Have you felt any changes in your symptom pattern? Do you feel better or worse?

[Bea123]

Thank you very much for your reply. I feel hopeless because i know the cells ive Lost i Will never recover them. Im convinced It Is a permanent damage. I took amy from the 2nf of Jan to the 12th of Jan. So It Is a lot of time and instead of improvements im getting worse. 

I started Prozac 1 month ago. I started with 10 mg and im now on 30 mg. I feel worse since then. Mioclonus and noisy brain. Also i feel more intolerant to sounds and light than before. 

Should i start amytriptiline again and taper slowly? 

[Altostrata]

No, it's not permanent, please be patient. Recovery is very slow, your nerve cells have to fix themselves.

 

If you feel worse on 30mg Prozac, I would go back to 10mg. People who are hypersensitive from drug adverse reactions often react poorly to "normal" drug dosages.

 

Are you taking any other drugs? To help us out, follow these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

 

How much amitriptyline were you taking, in milligrams?

[Bea123]

I also have Lost sensitivity all over my body and genital numbness and ive read that these drugs can destroy nervous tissue and It wont regenerate as before. Also since then i dont have libido anymore and my face changed due to the loss of muscles all over my body.

I took 4 mg of Amytriptiline for 3 days (from the 2nd of january to the 4th ) and 6 mg from the 4th to the 12th of january. I used the drops not the Pills. So Just 2 drops for 3 days and 4 drops for 9 days. Nobody believed my symptoms because the dosage and the duration was very short and small. 

I only take Eutirox for my hashimoto thiroiditis. Sometimes when i cant sleep i was prescribed Clonazepam (15 drops) but i only took It 3 times in a month.

I Will complete my signature very soon.  

[Altostrata]

No, nervous tissue is not lost or destroyed. The hormonal messengers are confused. They will get back in order, but it will take time.

 

Those symptoms are well known to us here. They are from nervous system dysregulation, not from destruction. We have seen people recover from them.

 

Right now, you may be feeling adverse effects from the Prozac. How is your sleep now? Did you use clonazepam before you went on Prozac?

 

If I were you, I'd go back to 10mg Prozac, let us know how you're doing every day. You may feel changes over a couple of weeks as the Prozac is metabolized, it has a long half-life.

 

What type of medicine do you practice?

[Bea123]

Thank you very much for your replies. 

 

Those symptoms are well known to us here. They are from nervous system dysregulation, not from destruction. We have seen people recover from them.

i think it's a permanent damage because in 2 weeks ive Lost 7 kgs of muscles. How can i regain them? Also ive Lost the sympathetic system and it's like i have an energetic parasympathetic system. My nature was to be the opposite before the drug. 

i know it's a One case in a million but i think i had worse damages than the usual. I really think i got Cell Lost because of the loss of muscles. Before the loss i had fasciculations, which Is tipycal when you have muscle atrophy. Also have you ever heard of the c fibers? I have Lost them and they are responsible of the finest sensitivity, which i Lost also in my genitals and nipples and all over my body. I dont feel anything. The strange thing Is also my breast, before the drug was super dense now is very not dense. It's like i became 30 years older in 2 weeks. 

 

I am an hematologist, but im not working since january because of this. I miss my job and my patients so much. 

 

i know you think i can return to normality but i think what happened to me was different to anyone else. Also the muscles i have Lost on my face make me look like another Person. .

Ive read about cholinergic rebound when someone stop to take an anticholinergic like amytriptiline can cause loss of cells because the signals are too Powerful due to the sensitivity of the receptors so the neuronal cells die. 

[Altostrata]

We counsel people on the presumption they will recover. If you don't believe you can recover, our ability to help you is limited.

 

Are you interested in trying less Prozac? Please answer:

 

38 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

How is your sleep now? Did you use clonazepam before you went on Prozac?

 

[Bea123]

Thank you very much.

So have you Heard those symptoms before? (Muscle atrophy, reduction of sympathetic system, reduction of sensitivity)

 

Yes i want to taper Prozac. So you suggest to go from 30 to 10? 

[Bea123]

My sleep Is bad due to desperation and i pass all my time on bed. No ive never tried clonazepam before Prozac. The psychiatrist gave me them together.

But the great damage done by the amytriptiline was done before 

[Bea123]

Does anyone have experience in cholinergic rebound?

[Bea123]

On 4/2/2020 at 11:25 PM, Altostrata said:

Welcome, Bea.

 

Some people have immediate severe bad reactions to serotonergics. After they quit, they continue to have symptoms very much like post-acute withdrawal syndrome (PAWS). As in withdrawal syndrome and PAWS, this means your nervous system was shaken up by the drug and needs time to settle down. Recovery tends to be very gradual, please be patient.

 

Read What is withdrawal syndrome?

 

Are you taking Prozac now? What is the dosage? When did you start it? Have you felt any changes in your symptom pattern? Do you feel better or worse?

Do you think my bad reaction Is due to serotonine or cholinergic rebound and cholinergic receptors hypersensitivity?

[Icip]

Hi @Bea123,

 

I can't counsel you medically (i'm a politics student), but i can assure you that you will get better.

 

I took Sertraline/Zoloft for five days at 25mg and had an adverse reaction with much of the same symptoms as you. I have light sensitivity, tinnitus, visual after-images, and i used to have the weird bodily sensations like you have - they will go as everything up there calms down a little. They did for me, but it's taken five months for me to feel somewhat 'OK'.

 

The will to die is quite strongly chemical-based. Your brain doesn't know what to do and is probably just as scared as your conscious. Try to calm and enjoy the time you're taking off of your work - yes it sucks and you longing to return will only become greater relative to how long you're 'on-hold' recovering. I've had to take a year out of my degree (as of three days ago) giving myself sometime to calm myself, hopefully inducing healing.

 

I've had depersonalisation/derealisation, chemical-dread/fear, muscle and joint pain - the pain has been the worst, it's slowly subsided over the months, but comes back in minor fits and troves when tired. This till be the same pattern for healing hopefully - it will all just fade into the background. I have some minor, but noticeable visual disturbances so it's a little harder for me to just forget about it all. I'm praying for that to happen one day.

 

I hope you're doing okay amidst the current pandemic; especially being Italian (if you live in Italy that is) but nevertheless, surround yourself with people whom you love, and just try to appreciate the small things, appreciate the normality as it slowly comes back to you - because i can promise that it's the most freeing sensation I've ever felt: feeling alive again.

 

You can message me if you need someone to talk to, to ask about symptoms, or anything! Please take care,

 

Icip.

[Bea123]

15 minutes ago, Icip said:

Hi @Bea123,

 

I can't counsel you medically (i'm a politics student), but i can assure you that you will get better.

 

I took Sertraline/Zoloft for five days at 25mg and had an adverse reaction with much of the same symptoms as you. I have light sensitivity, tinnitus, visual after-images, and i used to have the weird bodily sensations like you have - they will go as everything up there calms down a little. They did for me, but it's taken five months for me to feel somewhat 'OK'.

 

The will to die is quite strongly chemical-based. Your brain doesn't know what to do and is probably just as scared as your conscious. Try to calm and enjoy the time you're taking off of your work - yes it sucks and you longing to return will only become greater relative to how long you're 'on-hold' recovering. I've had to take a year out of my degree (as of three days ago) giving myself sometime to calm myself, hopefully inducing healing.

 

I've had depersonalisation/derealisation, chemical-dread/fear, muscle and joint pain - the pain has been the worst, it's slowly subsided over the months, but comes back in minor fits and troves when tired. This till be the same pattern for healing hopefully - it will all just fade into the background. I have some minor, but noticeable visual disturbances so it's a little harder for me to just forget about it all. I'm praying for that to happen one day.

 

I hope you're doing okay amidst the current pandemic; especially being Italian (if you live in Italy that is) but nevertheless, surround yourself with people whom you love, and just try to appreciate the small things, appreciate the normality as it slowly comes back to you - because i can promise that it's the most freeing sensation I've ever felt: feeling alive again.

 

You can message me if you need someone to talk to, to ask about symptoms, or anything! Please take care,

 

Icip.

Thank you very much for your reply!

Did you experience also loss of sensitivity all over your body? Also genitals? 

The thing that scared me the most was the muscles atrophy. This means i had a neuronal cells damage. 

I have visual disturbance aswell. During the night i dont see well even if there are light on and i see Shadows moving all the time. Im hypersensitive to light and noise. The muscle atrophy appeared also on my face making me change expression. This was depressing and i dont think i can fix It. 

In Italy it's a mess. Being a doc ID like to help more but im stuck here because of a **** med.

Have a nice night,

Speak soon

[Icip]

@Bea123,

 

It's never been something I've really had at the forefront of my mind - I have increased sensitivity over my body (psychoactive drugs can work both ways), but yes genital numbness (it also feels a tad smaller down there), and my hearing - I've always had super-sensitive hearing, it used to keep me up all night as I would be so vigilant to every creak and footstep. I can now sleep soundly which i hate, i loved being so aware of everything!

Serotonin effects almost all processes in your body, you've had 'damage' but it's not permanent - it will feel like you're stuck for some time but after a while (I'm praying for full recovery before the 1.5 years mark which sounds long, but your body and brain need time to heal, and they will do).

 

I have those exact problems with my sight! I've had them for four out of five months of withdrawal and they suck. I know, prescribed to fix things - but they fix our problems by essentially going into our brains, messing up everything they see which diverts our brain's attention from whatever anxiety, panic attack, or in your case, pressure headache which was causing problems for your brain in the first place. Sorry for messy writing, it's late here as it is for you.

 

The best tip i can give you, which flies in the face of what I'm doing, and have done over the course of my illness - is to sleep well, and sleep early. Not sleeping makes our symptoms worse as the brain right now needs as much energy, rest, and peace as it can get.

 

You too! Rest easy!

 

[Bea123]

https://rxisk.org/pssd-withdrawal-small-fiber-neuropathy/

 

I suggest you to read this. 

I think that could have happened to me 

[Icip]

@Bea123,

 

Myself, and everyone else here will urge you to stay away from worst-case scenarios + websites like RxIsk. You have only taken the culprit drug for nine days - your nervous system is in chaos and just needs time to settle, heal, and find it's feet again. People often garner problems like that after long-term use. You just have to hold onto the idea that you will get better, as impossible as that may sound right now - I've been there, crawled right into my bedroom corner sobbing, shaking, muscle twitches, and staring at the static in my vision everywhere, these drugs dehumanise you. You will feel more human soon, you just have to let your brain find it's place again.

 

I agree with Alto in that maybe a dosage reduction may be helpful for you, no reduction further than that unless doing a 10% taper. See Brassmonkey's method on tapering in the 'Tapering' section which you can find on the homepage - or see here:

Do this only if you ever want to stop Prozac, maybe wait till you feel a little bit better in general to do this? I'm no way near qualified to be saying all of this to a doctor hehe. Search around the site + research here for anything you need info or help with like symptoms. This really is a treasure trove of knowledge for the betterment of us all.

 

I'd wait for @Altostratato reply if you want any advice which is a bit more reliable or factual. But until then, or despite that - please ask away and i'll try to help you in anyway that i can.

In the meantime, please stay away from resources like RxIsk - yes we may have all damaged ourselves horribly, but there's atleast an inkling of hope flying around that we will all get better one day; try to hang onto that + read the esteemed success stories, they're not much (the majority of people recover, then never come back to tell us), but they're something.

 

I'm just advising from experience, i hope i can be of some help + not overstep my mark in anyway,

 

Icip.

[Icip]

Watch these instead! I recommend the second if you are only going to watch one, it was a turning point in my perspective!

 

[mstimc]

Bea, I encourage you to take Icip's advice and try to resist the temptation to ruminate on your physical symptoms.  Some members here have fallen into that trap and are stuck in a never-ending spiral of trying to explain every symptom and negative feeling.   During my own withdrawal, I  was caught up in my physical symptoms and wasted a lot of energy and time worrying about them instead of recovery. Many of us, including me, took medication for years and were able to fully recover.  The best way to handle the symptoms is to find and practice ways of managing the thoughts, feelings, and emotions that cause them.  I did a post on this a few days ago:

 

 

[Bea123]

The thing Is i know what i was before the drug and what i am now and i cant even looking at myself at the mirror. Im another Person now and i cant live with the fact i ruined myself for nothing. I should have done more research beofre taking the med 

[mstimc]

You haven't ruined yourself at all.  You are suffering withdrawal and feeling its effects.  No, you are not the same person you were.  None of us are or will be.  Any event, good or bad, makes us different from who we were.  From my withdrawal experience, I've learned to be more empathetic and understanding of other peoples' suffering, which is why I try to help others here.  You are not your withdrawal. 

[Bea123]

But It changed my whole body

How can i accept that?

[mstimc]

As Altostrata and Icip said, don't assume its changed your body.   Its temporarily affected your nervous system.  You can get your balance back if you give yourself the chance.  When I was in the worst of my WD, I thought I'd never get better, but I did.  It takes time and self-forgiveness.  You are judging yourself way too harshly and making some very serious assumptions while you're unable to think clearly.  Recovery takes time and patience.  It stinks, but you will get better.

[Bea123]

Thank you for the advices. 

I thought so at First but then when i started to lose muscles and have muscle atrophy i wondered It was permanent. It happened also on my face. How can that be reversible?

[mstimc]

You can get your musculature back if you move and work out, even a little.  And it will improve your mental state.  Concerning your facial problems, remember what Alto said,  "They are from nervous system dysregulation, not from destruction. We have seen people recover from them".   In withdrawal, I've seen people who were convinced they had heart disease, strokes, permanent digestive issues and a lot more chronic physical problems.  The mind is powerful and can affect your body in many ways.  Unless you've received a definitive diagnosis from a doctor whose done the proper tests, don't assume there is anything permanently wrong with you.  

 

[Bea123]

Ive been tested and they found out i have lack of chathecolamines so my sympathetic nervous system Is not working properly and also my Blood pressure Is very low. I had my Heart checked through ekg during the night and they found a lot of arrithmia like II grave Atrio ventricular block which ive never had before. 

[mstimc]

Did they give you any guidance on what to do?  I googled "low chtahecolamines" and got this from the University of Michigan medical school:   "Low levels of catecholamines usually do not indicate a problem".  It also said a ventricular block isn't necessary serious, depending on its severity.  Did they recommend any follow-up?

[Bea123]

I know it's compatibile with Life but it's not what i was used to be. I was the opposite to that. I used to be very anxious so my chathecolamines should have been higher. My Blood pressure was ok. 

The strange thing Is that my nervous system doesnt respond to the stimulus. For example when i get scared my Heart doesnt accelerate like It used to. It's scary i feel like im a robot

[mstimc]

Ok, but were your test results reviewed by a doctor or other health professional, and if so, did that person tell you that you needed treatment or nay kind of additional care?

[Bea123]

No they said After covid to do test for dysautonomia because now is All closed 

And they put me on Prozac 

[mstimc]

Yes, Covid is certainly causing a lot of disruption everywhere.  It appears there are a lot of causes of dysautonomia from simple to quite unusual and rare.   Most seem to be manageable.  So lets' assume for a moment you have it; you know you can manage it.  You're a doctor, what would you recommend to a patient with sysautonomia symptoms?  What kind of management actions would you suggest?  Then apply those to yourself. 

[Bea123]

Basically they didnt believe what happened to me with that med because they said it was a small dose for a short period. They even wanted to force me to take antipsichotics because they thought It was all in my head. It was horrendous. I think the depression increased even because of the way i was treated in hospital. And im a doctor. Italy Is a medioeval country 

[mstimc]

Well, its not any better in the US.  Most doctors don't believe in the negative effects of these drugs nor in withdrawal.  That just make it worse for people trying to recover.  You sound like you know the meds did this to you, which is good--now you just need to choose a path to healing.  As I said, it takes time and patience but you can recover--I'm living proof of that!

[Bea123]

Since i dont find oriented im scared to go back to work and damage patients 

[mstimc]

I understand your concern and its probably the right thing for you right now.  But often helping others is a great way to make yourself feel better.  Are there other ways you can use your training to help during the crisis like helping with staff work? 

[Bea123]

It's so sad, how did you find the stenght?