dream: relapse due to Paxil reduction

[Altostrata]

On 10/28/2021 at 5:17 PM, Altostrata said:

@dream, going off paroxetine can be extraordinarily difficult, especially tapering the lower doses.

 

 

This is a rather large decrease in paroxetine, amounting to a 25% reduction. Can you put your dose back to 1.75mg and see if that helps?

 

Have you also been taking clonazepam since June? Do you take clonazepam at the same times each day?

 

23 hours ago, Altostrata said:

@dream, measuring with the dropper is not going to be exact enough. Please ask your pharmacist for a 5mL oral syringe or 2mL if they have it. Veterinarians may also carry them. 

 

Ask your pharmacist to show you how to measure out 1.75mg of the paroxetine liquid.

 

I would not suggest this if I thought it would not work. Updosing a little is a very common correction when you've tapered too fast and gotten withdrawal symptoms. Hundreds of people on this site have done this.

 

I don't know how long your withdrawal symptoms will last without updose. Paroxetine is extraordinarily difficult to go off. Updosing may not work.

 

To help us out, follow these instructions Please summarize your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this. We need this before answering any more of your questions.

[dream]

@Altostrata

since last post, I have had days with good symptom relief, so I waited to turn up the dose. yesterday and today, however, a significant increase in symptoms, severe insomnia, like having taken 10 steps backwards. What happen?

[Altostrata]

Did you change your paroxetine or clonazepam dosing in the last week?

[dream]

@Altostrata

Absolutely not

[dream]

@Altostrata Only tonight after two unbearable days and insomnia in order to sleep I took 20 drops of clonazepam, if I don't sleep my life rolls down. I try to increase paroxetine as you told me. Nobody explained to me how to add up to 1.75 mg with water

[dream]

@Altostrata I'm in panic, I was so close to victory I don't know what to do anymore, instinct leads me to increase benzodiazepines to get on I have a job and a family to look after...

[Altostrata]

The pharmacist would not show you how to measure 1.75mg paroxetine liquid with an oral syringe?

 

You've been taking clonazepam every day since June? What has been your clonazepam schedule in the last 2 weeks?

[dream]

@Altostrata The same as I have already written, 5 drops every 3 hours. Only from 2 nights to sleep I take 20 drops. Only for two nights, as already written. I repeat, from June 5 drops every 3 hours.

[dream]

@Altostrata

i increased paroxetine as directed by you, if it works, how many days should i see it?
if instead I don't see results, should I go back to 1.5 mg?

[Altostrata]

I cannot tell how much clonazepam you're taking by the number of drops. How much are you taking in milligrams, in each dose?

 

How do you feel after taking 1.5mg paroxetine for more than a month? Better, worse, the same?

[dream]

@Altostrata

sorry I did not understand. I have been taking clonazepam 0.5 mg every 8 hours since September, but for a few days, due to terrible insomnia, I have been taking 1 mg in the evening.
with paroxetine at 1.5, for a month and a half, I feel worse, a few days better, but when I feel bad the symptoms are more severe. then for 4 days I tried to increase the dose as you advised me. in your opinion when should I be able to see if the upside has worked?

[dream]

@Altostrata

Hello, as recommended since November 8, I went up to 1.75 mg of paroxetine but I have not seen any improvement. Should I go back to 1.5? Should I have seen any benefits by now?

[Altostrata]

Your symptoms may be from the clonazepam, especially if you've changed your schedule. When did you change your dosing schedule?

 

Please keep daily notes of times o’clock you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. We need to know how you feel before and after taking each drug, and your symptoms in between. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time o’clock on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. This can show if your symptoms are adverse effects from one of your drugs.

[dream]

@Altostrata

6:30 I already get up anxiously (morning cortisol ??) and tired (last night's insomnia)

7:00 breakfast, I take 0.5mg clonazepam and 1.5mg paroxetine, omega 3, vitamin D, C, B3, B5, B12, taurine

I feel tired, because I have slept little and a knot in my stomach

10:00 slightly improves tiredness, but increases the knot in the stomach

12:00 lunch i take omega 3.

13:30 after lunch it increases fatigue and tacchycardia a lot, tremors, I take 0,5mg clonazepam, and helps me to contain it. once I was able to take a nap, now that I'm in abstinence I don't sleep anymore.  

18:00 always at this time, regardless of what I do, anxiety, tacchycardia, tremors and fatigue decrease

20:00 dinner, i take vitamine D, C

21:30 i take 1 mg colazepam and 1 mg melatonine. I can fall asleep, but then I always wake up at 4 and I don't sleep anymore. this weakens me a lot and makes my days unpleasant.

[Altostrata]

Why do you take clonazepam and paroxetine together in the morning?

 

Clonazepam needs to be taken only twice a day. Why are you taking it 3 times a day? 

 

How long have you been taking your drugs on this schedule?

 

@Frogie will consult on the clonazepam schedule.

 

Vitamin D is a daytime vitamin and should be taken in the morning.

[Frogie]

@dream

 

So sorry I didn't get to you sooner. I just saw the notification.

 

You need to take clonazepam an hour before or an hour after taking anything else. It is very sedating also.

 

I would like to see you only take it twice a day, as @Altostratarecommends. So, you can take your 1330 dose and move it up an hour everyday until you are taking it at the same time as your morning dose. Your total morning dose would then be 1 mg. Once you get that dose up to the morning, then please move the whole 1 mg dose either up one hour or down one hour from your other medications.

 

You can move your night dose either up one hour or down one hour now so you aren't taking it with the melatonin.

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to reach out to me.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

 

 

[dream]

@Frogie

Thanks for the reply. it was the doctor who suggested that I take it in 3 divided doses.
why do you say two doses are preferable?
am I taking a very high total dosage? (total 1.5 mg / day)
you who know him best, from a lot of addiction? will it be difficult to take off?
thank you with all my heart

 

since my problem is insomnia, wouldn't it be better for me to take the higher dose in the evening before bed?

[dream]

@Frogie

Did I see you took magnesium citrate?
could it be useful if I integrated it?

[Frogie]

I just say take it in two divided doses so it is equally distributed in your body and stays in your system equally as well. 
 

I take magnesium citrate. I take 200 mg morning and 200 mg evening and find that it does help with my anxiety. I just found the magnesium citrate agreed with my stomach the best. If you want to try magnesium, take a small amount to start out just to see how your body reacts. You can always increase the dosage. You can try any magnesium you feel would suit you the best.

[dream]

@ranocchio

I taking a very high total dosage? (total 1.5 mg / day) of clonazepam?
you who know him best, from a lot of addiction? will it be difficult to take off?

[dream]

@Claudius

hi, i could not find all the posts about your withdrawal, i am in full withdrawal from paxil despite slow withdrawal, i have started to climb from 15 mg since june 2020. i am at 1.5 mg but i suffer from severe insomnia, a lot a lot of tiredness, tacchycardia, anxiety and very sensitive to any stress.
did you experience similar symptoms? do you have any advice?

[dream]

@Frogie

Prendo un dosaggio totale molto alto? (totale 1,5 mg/die) di clonazepam?
tu che lo conosci meglio, da tanta dipendenza? sarà difficile decollare?

 

DeepL Translation:

 

Do I take a very high total dosage? (total 1.5 mg/day) of clonazepam?
you who know it best, is it so addictive? will it be difficult to take off?

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by ChessieCat
added translation

[Frogie]

It's a pretty high dose, but not dangerous.

 

I wish I could tell you won't have any symptoms but everyone is different.

 

[dream]

@Altostrata

Hello, why during the withdrawal period and with withdrawal symptoms the nervous system is so delicate and sensitive to everything? It takes very little to destabilize it...

[dream]

@Altostrata

Hello, I need help and comfort .. I don't know if it may be due to this, I took 3 doses covid vaccine and after a few days I took a seasonal flu; before I had seen improvements, after these two episodes the symptoms came back all and strong .. but how is that possible?? Will there ever be an end? I am destroyed and demoralized..

[Altostrata]

I hope you did not get all 3 doses within a week.

 

Most likely, you will gradually recover in a week or so.

[dream]

@Altostrata

No the first in June, the second in August and the third in December. Could this be the cause? Or am I in a wave?

 

[Sebas]

9 hours ago, dream said:

@Altostrata

No the first in June, the second in August and the third in December. Could this be the cause? Or am I in a wave?

 

Hello dreamy,

Yes covid vaccin like any external source can trigger (light) wave. May take a few weeks for your CNS to become stabile again. Telling from experience. Try to accept and take some extra rest and avoid other triggers. Hold at current dose. If at start of 2022 you can overcome this wave, you can achieve anything this year arrivedecci🤌👊😉

 

ps Erell currently has wd-problems of her own.

[Sebas]

Fast or slow heartrythm, insomnia, stomach issues, feeling very tired, sensitivity are all known (paxil) wd sympoms. Some people also have experienced bad side effects on B, C or D supplements, sometimes even omega 3 during wd (anything that is neuro related). Try to minimalise changes at the sime period of time (tapering or updosing AND vaccin AND supplements AND two drugs together). If possible one thing at a time. Take it slow and steady. 

[Aurorax]

Hi, @dream!

 

I will answer you here instead.

 

Yes, I had many wd symptoms during my taper and was very ill from 5 mg, and onwards. The symptoms will disappear given enough time. Until then you just have to hold on. If I were you, I would try to stabilize on 1,5 mg, and then perhaps cut 5% every four weeks. But that's just my personal opinion. The moderators have more experience with tapering and can give you better advice.

 

Try to keep calm and trust that you will heal, no matter how terrible things feel right now. We can endure so much more than we believe.

 

I wish you a Happy New Year. ✨ I get that you may not feel like celebrating right now, but you have managed to taper to 1,5 mg, and that's a huge feat. Just trust the process, and you will get through this!

 

Aurorax

 

[dream]

@aurorax

Thank you so much. your words are very heartening. thank you. I hope these horrible symptoms pass ..

[Sebas]

On 12/1/2021 at 10:38 AM, dream said:

13:30 after lunch it increases fatigue and tacchycardia a lot, tremors, I take 0,5mg clonazepam, and helps me to contain it. once I was able to take a nap, now that I'm in abstinence I don't sleep anymore.  

What do you normally have for lunch? 

 

In general you may want to use less different supplements throughout the day. Especially when nerve system is already destabilised. At breakfast, at lunch, at diner, before going to bed, this way nerve system is constantly adjusting to new triggers during withdrawal. 

 

Trying to suppress insomnia (which is a wd symptom) by updosing clonazepam (and the use of melatonine) can be a new trigger on the nerve system. If you're unable to sleep which we all know is very disturbing, then try accept just to lay down and rest (without falling asleep). 

 

Just want to help by giving you some insights from my own experience. 

 

Goodluck stabilising 🍀🌻

[Altostrata]

@dream did you accidentally skip doses of any of your drugs?

[dream]

 

@Altostrata

no, but some mottos I add a few drops of rivotril to sleep, but only when needed and if at all I'm completely insomniac ..
 

I read your 11-year history of withdrawal symptoms… I have heartbreak for you… But have they always been on the acute level?

[dream]

@Sebas

thank you very much, with all my heart, in fact sometimes I increase the clonazepam To be able to sleep ... For me, insomnia is the most horrible symptom ... Have you suffered from it? Even for days in a row? I thank you with all my heart you do not know how much your suggestions help me❤️

[Sebas]

34 minutes ago, dream said:

thank you very much, with all my heart, in fact sometimes I increase the clonazepam To be able to sleep ... For me, insomnia is the most horrible symptom ... Have you suffered from it? Even for days in a row? I thank you with all my heart you do not know how much your suggestions help me

 

You're welcome, here to help eachother. Yes I've experienced several awful withdrawal symptoms, even worse than insomnia. Heartrate problems, cognitiv issues, work fall out, stomach and (long term) food issues, migraine and dizzyness, etc. Vaccine issues, anesthesie issues. But still standing and currently doing fine.

 

Insomnia is definitely drastic, still i would recommend to mimimalise the use of clonazepam. Withdrawal symptoms will eventually fade away. Doctors who recommend this for insomnia are not well aware of paxil withdrawal and drug interactions.

 

https://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/clonazepam-with-paxil-703-0-1800-1156.html

 

In stead of clonazepam you better slow down paxil taper. You went down to fast from 3 mg (50%!!). Normally we recommend 5-10% steps every 4-6 weeks, the lower you get the lower these steps should be. Some people take 1 or 2% steps. For example 1.5, 1.4, 1.3 etc. 

But first focus on becoming stable again. Give it some time. And slow down at work.