Clementine: Venlafaxine Struggle

[Clementine]

Having successfully, after many years of extraordinary struggle, come off Klonipin, I mistakenly assumed that tapering venlafaxine/Effexor would be a relatively mild and tolerable experience. Instead, it has been horrific. My psychopharmacologist is a decent person, but is not only resistant to the reality of this withdrawal - he actively presumes that withdrawal symptoms reflect recurrence, which I know to be incorrect. I know what “my” anxiety and depression feel like, and I know what withdrawal feels like. This is withdrawal, and it’s brutal. I have four kids and a husband and I am deeply reluctant to put them through another round of what I went through with Klonipin. I am frightened and desperate. Plan to go back up from the 37.5 I’m down to now and taper from 75 more slowly but need support.
 

I am a clinician and a writer with familiarity with and access to medical journals ans current relevant research - I knew that Effexor had a substantial withdrawal profile, which is why I think I avoided tapering foe so long. But early last May, I woke up with  idiopathic, unilateral tinnitus which has never for one moment subsided since then, and I discovered some clinical evidence suggesting a link between SSRI’s and tinnitus. That was the impetus foe finally making the attempt.

 

The first time, I failed. The withdrawal was too overwhelming and I was contending with the COVID crisis here in NYC. This time, I was fine dropping from 112.5 to 75mgs, but after three weeks at 75, I went down to 37.5 and it has been hell. 
 

I imagine I need to taper hyperbolically, reducing the doses by smaller increments, by percentage, as I go down, in order to stop these unbearable withdrawal symptoms. But I need support in determining how often to drop by an increment, and how large or small those increments should be.

 

I am grateful for any help you can provide. Thank you.

[getofflex]

Hello Clementine, and welcome to SA.  Kudos to you for doing the hard work of getting successfully off Klonopin!  I commend you for that.  We are a peer owned and run forum of people who have been or are getting off of psychiatric drugs.  

 

First of all, can you please give us specific information about your drug history?  This will allow us to give you the best guidance.  

 

How to List Drug History in Signature

 

This helps you understand what withdrawal syndrome is: 

 

What is Withdrawal Syndrome?

 

Here is some information about how these drugs actually work.  

 

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

You are absolutely right when you say we need to taper hyperbolically.

 

 Why Taper by 10% of my Dosage  

 

When we recover, there are times of feeling OK mixed in with times of feeling bad.  This is called waves and windows.  

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Here are some techniques to cope with symptoms: 

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Finally, increasing your dose, which we call reinstatement,  should be done very carefully.  There is some risk involved, and we need more specifics about your drug history before we can suggest a good dose at which to reinstate.  Here is some information about reinstatement.  

 

About Reinstating and Stabilizing to Reduce Withdrawal Symptoms

 

I've given you quite a bit of information here.  Please read through it, and mull it over, and we will take it from there. In the meantime, take care of yourself, and take heart.  We in this forum have been through this, and we understand first hand the pain and discomfort you are going through.  Please know that the brain is amazing in it's healing abilities.  It takes time, but healing can and will happen. 

Edited March 12, 2021 by getofflex
soften the wording so I'm not telling them what to do changed "advise" to "suggest"

[Clementine]

Having successfully, after many years of extraordinary struggle, come off Klonipin, I mistakenly assumed that tapering venlafaxine/Effexor would be a relatively mild and tolerable experience. Instead, it has been horrific. My psychopharmacologist is a decent person, but is not only resistant to the reality of this withdrawal - he actively presumes that withdrawal symptoms reflect recurrence, which I know to be incorrect. I know what “my” anxiety and depression feel like, and I know what withdrawal feels like. This is withdrawal, and it’s brutal. I have four kids and a husband and I am deeply reluctant to put them through another round of what I went through with Klonipin. I am frightened and desperate. Plan to go back up from the 37.5 I’m down to now and taper from 75 more slowly but need support. Am planning very gradual hyperbolic taper with compounding pharmacy nearby.

Edited March 7, 2021 by Gridley

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Clementine.

 

Doctors know nothing about withdrawal.  They are not taught about withdrawal in school and receive their information about psychiatric drugs from the pharmaceutical companies, who are obviously reluctant to spread information about the extreme difficulties withdrawing from the product they make their money from.  Very slowly withdrawal is beginning to be acknowledged, but the medical profession in the U.S. lags far behind countries such as the U.K. in this respect.

 

You may want to print this article out. It's from the U.K. Royal College of Psychiatry (RCP):

 

Stopping antidepressants

 

And here's an article with leaders in the RCP explaining why they wrote that. 

 

Psychiatry’s Top Experts Acknowledge Lasting Harms of Antidepressant Withdrawal

 

You may find this thread helpful, from the Journals section:

 

Papers about prolonged antidepressant withdrawal syndrome

 

You may also want to get a copy of this book. Robert Whitaker's writings come highly recommended here: 

 

Anatomy of an Epidemic

 

Scroll down that page and you'll see hyperlinks for the source documents, including for antidepressants. 

 

Here is the book trailer video for Whitaker's book: 

 

Robert Whitaker, author Anatomy of an Epidemic video (11.5 minutes)

 

If you think it's not a waste of time, before you meet with your doctor, you may want to go through this thread:

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

 

We recommend tapering by no more than 10% of your current dose every four weeks.  A hyperbolic taper using a compounding pharmacy is a good plan. Wait until you've stabilized from your updose to 75mg before beginning your taper.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

This link is specifically about tapering Venlafaxine.  

 

Tips for tapering off venlafaxine (Effexor)

 

So that you have a better idea of what you've experienced and are experiencing, here is some information about withdrawal and he healing process.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

When we take psychiatric medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

These explain the healing process really well.

 

Brain Remodelling 

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems. Get supplements that ae single ingredient (not mixed with other types of supplements).

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

[JesusSavemefromWD]

1 hour ago, Clementine said:

Having successfully, after many years of extraordinary struggle, come off Klonipin, I mistakenly assumed that tapering venlafaxine/Effexor would be a relatively mild and tolerable experience. Instead, it has been horrific. My psychopharmacologist is a decent person, but is not only resistant to the reality of this withdrawal - he actively presumes that withdrawal symptoms reflect recurrence, which I know to be incorrect. I know what “my” anxiety and depression feel like, and I know what withdrawal feels like. This is withdrawal, and it’s brutal. I have four kids and a husband and I am deeply reluctant to put them through another round of what I went through with Klonipin. I am frightened and desperate. Plan to go back up from the 37.5 I’m down to now and taper from 75 more slowly but need support. Am planning very gradual hyperbolic taper with compounding pharmacy nearby.

I am sorry u have also been a victim of psychiatrists. Don’t let your “decent” psychiatrist convince u is recurrence and not withdrawal. I took Zoloft for few weeks cause I just had chest tightness. I stopped Zoloft cause I had severe side effects including inner terror/anxiety/restlessness, soul penetrating sadness/dreadful feeling, SI, depersonalization and derealization, and still suffer from these symptoms despite being completely OFF Zoloft for 4 months now. Never had these symptoms before Zoloft so my doctor can not use the term “recurrent” so instead she is trying to convince me it’s an underlying disease that just happened to manifest while I took Zoloft. If I wasn’t suffering so much I would laugh at my case. My point is, listen to yourself and moderators here, they know more than most psychiatrists. Good luck to you. By the way, I understand ur point about ur husband and kids suffering with u, I feel the same way But I came up to realize that it is actually me (and you) who suffers the most intense and inhuman symptoms, so during Withdrawal we have to put ourselves above all If we want to make it.  Good luck  and may God help u in this process. 

[Shep]

@ClementineI merged your two introduction topics. Please continue posting here instead of starting new threads. That way, all of your information is in one place. Thank you.