Fallensoul: introducing my story, a fallen soul, when happiness turns into horror

[Altostrata]

On 6/2/2021 at 12:44 PM, Fallensoul said:

Whats the opinion/experience on this site on tardive dysphoria? Esp

 in cases after 10-20 years of Ad use.

Is this permanent or does it improve over time in most cases?

 

Pretty sure we already discussed this as "emotional anesthesia" several time. Please read this topic from the beginning.

 

7 hours ago, Fallensoul said:

Still attacks of sudden fatique now, seems a normal benzo withdrawal response?

 

You're going to have to get used to random waves of symptoms, which may be withdrawal symptoms. You do not need to report transitory symptoms here. None of them should be a surprise by now.

 

We want to know if a symptom persists, or occurs at the same time of day over several days. If a symptom persists, stop tapering -- it might be from withdrawal.

[Fallensoul]

I'll take a look there, allthough I'm not having this anymore, I'm allmost happy with strong feelings, def. not blunted, no anxiety anymore, just some anticipation anxiety, scared it will come back. Have had so much of it, I have to trust my mind again.
Also had sweating during dreams.

I still are exhausted for a short time after wakeup, after an hour it fades, and come back after dinner.

Also had a racing mind, but today it seems calmer.

 

I'll report how it goes coming days. 

[Fallensoul]

Did go out the today to visite work.

Starting slowy next week.

 

I felt brainfog and still coudn't acces my old feelings yet, no anxiety.

Mood is still compromised, as it locked in some short of shock, difficult to explain. Motivation also lacking atm.

 

 

[Fallensoul]

Weird, normaly mood is improving at the late evenings, but not the last few days.
Feeling quite depressed actually.
I guess that's also part of benzo WD?

[Fallensoul]

Today a bad day. After a night with almost no sleep, exhausted and depressed.

Can do much then laying on the trusty couch.

[Fallensoul]

Awfull day, totall braindead no motivation, disphoria (the worst symptom) back deep down into missery.
It seems indeed to manifest in waves, with good moments in between last week. What a fight this is. Gladly the will to live is so strong, it feels like this isn't me. Only I miss my life so much....I had everthing a man could wish...was happy from dusk till dawn.

[Fallensoul]

Today after a good sleep, stll stressesd/panickly, jumpy by noises, agitation, no real anxiety, but I still can't liberate me from these symthoms.

 

Hopefully after dinner with a full belly things wil calm.

[Fallensoul]

Since I lowered the lorazepam my anxiety have decreased.

But I stll have extreme tiredness converting to stress quickly, after wakeup, which lessen during the day.

 

Mood is still compromised, if it's stucked together with intrussive thoughts,  about breathing and this missery.

It feels like being caught in feeling, while I also feel more normal, but the happynes stays away atm. This bothers me a lot. I also am agitated in the evening.

 

I have I feeling sooner or later I will break through this, but atm desparately waiting for the liberation.

 

Sleep is still some trouble, partially due long day light and hot weather here.

1 day good, two days broken, then pattern repeats.

[Fallensoul]

Another night with almost no sleep

Feeling burnout now.

 

[Fallensoul]

Somewhat broken sleep last night.

Still feel terrible, stressed, overstimulated, tired in head.

I guess I feel the lorazepam taper heavy now.

 

[Fallensoul]

How long are these issue's gonna take after each benzo drop?

Feeling so unstable, allmost everything makes me nervous/panickly.

Also the weather and long daylight is working against me, my sleep.

 

Not depressed atm.

 

I managed to work a few hours, it's pure survival.

 

I hope the coming time improve a bit, I still have 0,75x4 to taper.

I tried niacin to help, but it doesn't seem to do much.

[Fallensoul]

I hope somebody can respond, my nerves going crazy atm.

[Fallensoul]

Again bad sleep due warm weather icm with benzo taper.

Feeling demolishd and strange now. 

I wish someone would post how long to benzo issues last after a 10 and 5% drop.

Please do an educated guess so I can focus on something.

 

[Fallensoul]

Dog lover chimed in.
I hope I can ask my questions here, because in my intro topic I get no response.

I'm also tapering benzo,s.
The first step from 1mg to 0,9mg went fine, the second step from 0,90 to 0,80mg was tough, but manageable.

 

But the step from 0,80 to 0,75 went wrong. Agitation, panic, stress, exhaisted due stress or no sleep etc, even moments of depression, sad mood.

 

First taper was 26 march, second was 20 may, and the third  7 june.

Was the third, despite the lower 0,05mg drop, too quicky? Should I ride it out, how soon will the issues ease on averidge? Still struggling with sleep now and panic, but that seems to ease now a bit, but the lack of sleep is paying its toll.
 

[Frogie]

@Fallensoul
 

You are tapering too fast. Even though you are doing 10% you really need to listen to your body and hold longer if needed until the symptoms are very manageable.

 

You could go back up and see if that helps. Then hold for a while to wait for symptoms to go away and then try to taper again.

 

I found my benzo taper a lot more difficult to get through than the ad taper. A lot of different symptoms.

 

Let me know if that helps😊

[Fallensoul]

Thanks frogie, I'm so stressed and nervours, getting crazy from it, its indeed very though.
Esp. when sleep is compromising. I go back to 0,80, so up 0.05 see if it helps when things don't improve the coming days.

[Frogie]

@Fallensoul
 

Just take some deep breaths. And relax. I know it’s very stressful and terrifying, but I would try the updose and see how you do. 
 

Have you tried melatonin? They suggest .3mg to start. You might see if that helps with your sleep issues.

 

Let me know how you are doing.

[Fallensoul]

Yeah, so unstable, feeling awfull unreal. Did you also have sudden attacks of depression?
I have melatonin, also Aschwanga, but it don't do much against the benzotaper right now.

If sleep don't improve I'll will dose up 0,05mg, back too 0,80mg.

[Fallensoul]

Also moodswings: sometimes normal, suddenly panic, then unmotivated, agitated, jumpy from sounds etc. 
Unable to calm yourself, intrussive thoughts, feeling to go crazy, bah.

Smoking make things even (way) worse, so I try to keep that as low as possible.

[Frogie]

I was a smoker for 40 years and quit 5 years ago, so I understand smoking to try to feel better. But I can honestly say that I do feel better since I quit.

 

It is very normal, unfortunately, to have the symptoms your are having. It’s all part of wd. I have/had all the symptoms you listed plus many more.

 

I would try an updose if needed and hold to see if the symptoms fade some. 
 

Take care…

[Fallensoul]

I wish I had the power to quit, I want to, but I also still like it so much.

But I know I eventially get over it and even on a day timecycle I feel a lot more calm and less anxious when I hold off the sigs.

 

The problem I have with updosing, I wasn't symtomfree on the original dose, but I don't know if its is from tapering paroxetine, which is on hold  at near 5 mg on Alto's advice to taper the benzo's first, or paradoxial reactions on the benzo's, (I am at least deep into tolerance) or adverse reaction from clomipramine, 22mg (tapered from 50)

 

But when taking  the higher dose lorazepam  I could sleep at least and l had less stress in my body, but I still had anxiety and bad mood. 

 

I'm still knee deep into this vicious cocktail and I don't know for sure which cause the most problems now. (It started like hell with the paroxetine poopout).

 

Thanks for response and are you completely on track, or still with left overs from a dark time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Frogie]

You just have to take life one day at a time.

 

You are going to have dark days, but there will be light. These drugs are difficult to taper off of.

 

Hang in there and please keep me posted.

[Fallensoul]

Yeah I know.

Yesterday was not so bad and last night I got a good sleep again.

But today I'am exhausted, probably due all the stress from the last days, and the fact the body is adapting to the lower dose and now coming to a rest, so feeling exhausted recovering from all the stress I guess.

I am allmost tied to the couch today.

I still have not updosed, If I sleep again coming night, I don't think its needed anymore.

Do you agree?

[Fallensoul]

After a long struggle, now clearer in head and less fatique.

Also much less stressed.

[Frogie]

@Fallensoul

 

It sounds like you are starting to stabilize on the lower dose if you can think a little clearer and sleeping better.

 

My suggestion would be keep holding at that dose and see how you do.

 

Keep me posted😊

[Fallensoul]

Thanks, will let you know how it goes. Again tired and feeling like another good night sleep is coming.
Btw, the first 30 mins after wakeup are the worst, exhausted and stressed together, completely off this world for a short time.

[Fallensoul]

Today after a reasonable sleep, shortly panick feelings a few minutes after wakeup, then quickly heavy physicall symtoms, first exhausted, then extreme stressed body, evolving to fatique again later.

So symtoms went more physicall.

Did a walk with the dog for 15 mins, but that's it for now.

This is realy heavy. No anxiety and think and mood tend to get a bit more normal btw.

 

I wonder why it's always so bad after wake up, and how deeper the sleep, the tougher the fist hours are.

 

I hope it lifts soon a bit, I must work, or I lose everything. (Job, house, car)

 

[Wim1952]

Fallen hello how are you doping?

[Wim1952]

Doing

[Fallensoul]

Hello Wim, well after a reasonable sleep, shortly panick feelings a few minutes after wakeup, then quickly heavy physicall symtoms, first exhausted, then extreme stressed body, evolving to fatique again later.

So symtoms went more physicall.

 

Did a walk with the dog for 15 mins, but that's it for now.

This is realy heavy. No anxiety and think and mood tend to get a bit more normal btw.

 

I wonder why it's always so bad after wake up, and how deeper the sleep, the tougher the fist hours are.

 

For reference, I'm only tapering the benzo's atm.

 

I hope it lifts soon a bit, I must work, or I lose everything. (Job, house, car)

 

How are you doing?

[Wim1952]

Hallo Fallen,

 

Holding at the moment( olanzapine) because of planned vacation in Austria in juli.

walking every day for 3 or 4 hours does help me stabilise.

i can recemmond that , try to exercise more iT helps with sleep to.

Hope you manage to go and work, don’t worry to miuch about iT.

hartelijke groet Wim

[Mia1]

Hi Fallensoul,

 I just read through your thread and it certainly seems like you have been going through a lot. I know it’s difficult dealing with the uncertainty of w/d but there are things you can do to make it more manageable.  

When dealing with difficult emotions such as anxiety it helps to be accepting of our emotions. The less resistance we create the less suffering we will create. @Hanna72said it perfectly, you want to change your relationship to the anxiety and not the anxiety itself. Substitute any other emotion and it works as well. Even if today you may not be experiencing anxiety this is something you may want to look into as many symptoms will come and go as you continue this journey and you really can empower yourself with a good perspective.

 I actually deal with a lot of OCD thoughts during w/d and developed a swallowing one during my amitriptyline withdrawal where I would be consciously swallowing almost all day long. I knew not to create fear around it. I let it happen while at the same time continued to live my life without giving it another thought. It was gone in a week. Because I put the work in for other thoughts I knew what to do. This is why doing the work, learning non drug ways to cope is so important not only for our recovery but our success in life.

 I know it’s hard but do try to practice not being reactive to symptoms. It’s basically acceptance. If you can do something about it great but if it is something you truly cannot change then perhaps the kindest thing you can do for yourself is to let it go. Trust you will get better because you will.

@brassmonkey suggested you start posting some positive aspects of your day. I would recommend a gratitude journal. By writing down what you are grateful for each day you are retraining your brain to focus on the positive aspects of life. They are there, you just have to see them!!

I know it’s not easy when so much is going on but if you just do a little work each day it will have great payoffs down the line. I wish you the very best in your recovery.

 

[Shep]

On 6/16/2021 at 2:44 PM, Fallensoul said:

I tried niacin to help, but it doesn't seem to do much.

 

On 6/18/2021 at 1:23 PM, Fallensoul said:

I have melatonin, also Aschwanga, but it don't do much against the benzotaper right now.

 

@FallensoulPlease note I moved several of your latests posts off of Frogie's thread and here to your own thread. I also wanted to address the use of supplements, as it's possible that adding in so many supplements in the attempt to help with sleep may be turning paradoxical. This means these supplements may be making your insomnia worse. The more you sedate the nervous system, the more it fights to stay alert. 

 

So please be careful with supplements. We don't recommend a lot of supplements, as many members report their nervous systems are simply too fragile to handle them. However, magnesium and fish oil tend to be calming to the nervous system and many people report they do help. Please only add in one supplement at a time and at a small dose. For more, please see:

 

 King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

You may find some helpful information to handle your symptoms here: 

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

 

On 6/16/2021 at 2:44 PM, Fallensoul said:

How long are these issue's gonna take after each benzo drop?

 

 

You may find this thread helpful:

 

Are We There Yet? How Long is Withdrawal Going to Take?

 

 

 

[Surviving82]

18 hours ago, Mia1 said:

Hi Fallensoul,

 I just read through your thread and it certainly seems like you have been going through a lot. I know it’s difficult dealing with the uncertainty of w/d but there are things you can do to make it more manageable.  

When dealing with difficult emotions such as anxiety it helps to be accepting of our emotions. The less resistance we create the less suffering we will create. @Hanna72said it perfectly, you want to change your relationship to the anxiety and not the anxiety itself. Substitute any other emotion and it works as well. Even if today you may not be experiencing anxiety this is something you may want to look into as many symptoms will come and go as you continue this journey and you really can empower yourself with a good perspective.

 I actually deal with a lot of OCD thoughts during w/d and developed a swallowing one during my amitriptyline withdrawal where I would be consciously swallowing almost all day long. I knew not to create fear around it. I let it happen while at the same time continued to live my life without giving it another thought. It was gone in a week. Because I put the work in for other thoughts I knew what to do. This is why doing the work, learning non drug ways to cope is so important not only for our recovery but our success in life.

 I know it’s hard but do try to practice not being reactive to symptoms. It’s basically acceptance. If you can do something about it great but if it is something you truly cannot change then perhaps the kindest thing you can do for yourself is to let it go. Trust you will get better because you will.

@brassmonkey suggested you start posting some positive aspects of your day. I would recommend a gratitude journal. By writing down what you are grateful for each day you are retraining your brain to focus on the positive aspects of life. They are there, you just have to see them!!

I know it’s not easy when so much is going on but if you just do a little work each day it will have great payoffs down the line. I wish you the very best in your recovery.

 

@Mia1, @Fallensoul, beautifully said Mia! Acceptance is key for living with anxiety, no matter the cause of it. The more we fear our symptoms, the more anxiety we create, that in turn creates more symptoms and so on. This is a vicious circle. I found the book "DARE Approach to anxiety" helped me deal with my own strange sensations, thoughts, and feelings. Now when I experience a symptom, I first acknowledge that I feel it. Then I recall that I have already felt this way before and it did not hurt me. It went away. So, it cannot hurt me this time either. As much as the symptom is uncomfortable, it is not going to do anything bad to me. I am safe. And then I do my best to switch my attention to something else. It is not an overnight cure, but I notice that the more I do it today, the next day my symptoms tend to be a tad bit less. I hope this helps. And I do hope that you feel better very soon!

[Fallensoul]

@Wim1952 thanks for the tips, my energy level fluctuate, but I walk with the dog as much possible.
Goede vakantie!

 

@Mia1Yes it's really though, emotial symtoms seems to lessen though, its now more my nerves and stresscapacity whats compromising me.
I feel extremely overstumulated and stressed.
Allthough also the breathing OCD is still arround, it's a complicated one, not easy to egnore. Its like continue thinking about this and manually breathing, afraid or impossible to let loose sometimes.
I will look for the coping strategies. Thanks for the tips, I am working on it to let it just be there and know it won't hurt me. And automatic breathing is always working.
I'm gratefull I still managed to work a few hours today.

 

@Shep Ok I will dish the aschanga, it did also allmost nothing. And I think the niacine impact is allmost zero too, does niacine hurts?
I'm also fase out gaba, tyrosine and lithium orotate, it does nothing, and gaba doesn't pass the blood brain barrier anyway.
I will concentrate on fishoil and magnesium.
Thanks for merging and the links.

@Surviving82
Thanks for pointing out this, I will have to change my mindset, going to work with this.

Toady again exhausted at start, probably allmost burnout, nerves are in constant stress, allmost nonstop since a drop the last 5% off my benzo (0,80->0,75 mg)
I slept even better last night though. So hopefully things will ease a bit coming days.

[Fallensoul]

Hoi Gerben,

 

ja zo zijn er velen door die rotmedicatie. En het begon allemaal voor een pilletje voor wat stress, sympthomen die niet in de schaduw staat van het afbouwen en niet meer werken van die rotzooi nu. Wist ik maar beter toen....

Ik ga dat boek bekijken, bedankt voor de tip!

Jij ook succes en sterkte, het houd een keer op idd

Sorry for the Dutch smalltalk fellowmembers