Alan1234: desperately seeking help

[Alan1234]

Hi Altostrata 

 

Yesterday I had very high unremitting anxiety. I went for a walk.

I took 3.75mg mirtazapine last night again. I didn’t sleep a wink again last night as soon as I lay down the anxiety was constant and Akathisia kicked in. The Akathisia is becoming a big problem as it’s constant throughout the night or whenever I try to sit still or lie down. I’m feeling anxious as usual with my heart racing. I have a headache this morning which is very unusual for me. 
 

i have to meet my employer today as a last throw of the dice they are keen to get me back into work. I’m not sure how I will explain what is going on to them without going into too much details. I will listen to see what they say and do my best to give it one last shot.

[Rosetta]

How are you doing?

[Alan1234]

Hi Rosetta

 

overall I’m very happy with how I’m doing. I’m still taking 3.75mg Of Mirtazapine. I have taken it for the last 5nights. 
 

my anxiety is still constantly there but it is more wave like than last week. The background level of it isn’t as bad,  but then it’s very severe at nighttime and through the night. I’ve managed to sleep for a few hours every 3 nights. So the anxiety is so bad I can’t sleep for 2 nights then I think it’s because I’m that exhausted then I get some sleep on the 3rd night. This pattern  is very challenging and stressful and it seems is when my brain goes into some sort of automatic overdrive of uncontrollable thoughts.  

 

Also the smallest amount of stress soon provokes the daytime waves to to rise ridiculously inappropriately, but at least there’s some progress.

 

one big thing is my attitude, reaction and acceptance of the insomnia and anxiety. I have gained this from the posts yourself and the other moderators have directed me to, and especially seem to have gained some strength from your words and support. 
 

I know it’s very early days and expect that I will have some very dark days again but I know it’s how i think and react to them that will make the difference. 

[Altostrata]

This improvement is very promising, good to hear.

[Rosetta]

That’s wonderful!

 

Ok.  Now you need to make sure you have enough Mirt.  The advice I gave you earlier about dissolving — you will waste a lot that way.  The solution only lasts a few days or so.  After that the potency lessens, and you don’t want that.  So, if you are getting 3.75 by dissolving the pills, think about how to split them and find a way to use as much as you can before it expires.

 

Some doctors are very upset to find out a person is taking a tiny amount of an AD, and they stop prescribing.  The way some people prevent that disaster is to simply not tell the doctor.  They take whatever prescription the doctor gives them without discussing the fact that reinstatement of a very small dose is helping them.  Trying to explain to a doctor about WD, adverse reactions, extreme sensitivity — it’s sometimes very detrimental to one’s health.
 

Yes, you will have ups and downs.  Stay the course with this dose for at least a few months no matter how well you feel.  Even six months after the last drastic change in the dose of a medication can be too soon to make any changes.  Each time there is a change (dose, type, addition of a med) the system becomes more fragile.  We notice that with each successive change, the body’s reaction to a subsequent change is more severe.  People start feeling better during a window and think they can start a taper, but then are deeply sorry that they did.

 

There is also a hyper-active phase that can occur after a low point.  If you start to feel very good and very positive about life, check yourself.  Don’t make promises or take on more responsibilities.  Don’t let anyone tell you that you should be doing more because you should be well “by now.”  This syndrome is not like any other.  The recovery is not linear at all.  People will get frustrated that you had a good day or couple of days, but then go down again.  You will get frustrated, but this is the way it is.  The reason that people suffer more is because they can’t accept the windows and waves nature of PWS.  Our families can’t accept it, and we feel guilty about something over which we have no control.

 

I hope you can look up any odd symptoms you have in the forum here, and see that other people have them, too.  It’s a lot to slog through with a mixed up brain, but you will feel less alone.  Read success stories, too.  
 

After a few weeks, try a very small amount of magnesium or fish oil, one at a time.  

 

You will be good as new someday.  You will find a way to enjoy a much more quiet and slow life in the meanwhile.  

[Alan1234]

Hi Altostrata/Rosetta

 

thank you for your responses

the only new symptom is quite severe fatigue that’s started 2 days ago. By every afternoon it feels like I’ve been hit with a sledgehammer. I’m so tired, but I assume it’s the months of not sleeping and the recent dose changes and my nervous system. I feel so weak.  Is it ok to lie down and try and rest when this happens ?

 

I hope you trip has been nice Rosseta

 

thanks

Alan 

 

 

[Alan1234]

I remember I felt like this once before when I came off paroxetine the first time. I felt so exhausted it felt like CFS/MS

[Alan1234]

59 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

That’s wonderful!

 

Ok.  Now you need to make sure you have enough Mirt.  The advice I gave you earlier about dissolving — you will waste a lot that way.  The solution only lasts a few days or so.  After that the potency lessens, and you don’t want that.  So, if you are getting 3.75 by dissolving the pills, think about how to split them and find a way to use as much as you can before it expires.

 

Some doctors are very upset to find out a person is taking a tiny amount of an AD, and they stop prescribing.  The way some people prevent that disaster is to simply not tell the doctor.  They take whatever prescription the doctor gives them without discussing the fact that reinstatement of a very small dose is helping them.  Trying to explain to a doctor about WD, adverse reactions, extreme sensitivity — it’s sometimes very detrimental to one’s health.
 

Yes, you will have ups and downs.  Stay the course with this dose for at least a few months no matter how well you feel.  Even six months after the last drastic change in the dose of a medication can be too soon to make any changes.  Each time there is a change (dose, type, addition of a med) the system becomes more fragile.  We notice that with each successive change, the body’s reaction to a subsequent change is more severe.  People start feeling better during a window and think they can start a taper, but then are deeply sorry that they did.

 

There is also a hyper-active phase that can occur after a low point.  If you start to feel very good and very positive about life, check yourself.  Don’t make promises or take on more responsibilities.  Don’t let anyone tell you that you should be doing more because you should be well “by now.”  This syndrome is not like any other.  The recovery is not linear at all.  People will get frustrated that you had a good day or couple of days, but then go down again.  You will get frustrated, but this is the way it is.  The reason that people suffer more is because they can’t accept the windows and waves nature of PWS.  Our families can’t accept it, and we feel guilty about something over which we have no control.

 

I hope you can look up any odd symptoms you have in the forum here, and see that other people have them, too.  It’s a lot to slog through with a mixed up brain, but you will feel less alone.  Read success stories, too.  
 

After a few weeks, try a very small amount of magnesium or fish oil, one at a time.  

 

You will be good as new someday.  You will find a way to enjoy a much more quiet and slow life in the meanwhile.  

Ok thank you for the advice 

I will look at 6mths on 3.75mg before lowering it, if my doctor will continue to prescribe. He already tried to push Olazapine on me when I told him I had stopped the paroxetine. 

[Rosetta]

Of course, you can rest anytime you like.  If your body will let you rest, do so.  You are like a person with a baby’s brain.  Have you ever heard people say, “Never wake a sleeping baby?”  Babies sleep when they sleep, and they are quietly sitting there sometimes.  We should never interfere with those times.  They are growing a brain.  So are you.

[Alan1234]

Hi Rosetta 

thanks for your ongoing support. 

I had a bad day yesterday but I know now this is to be expected and I’m doing well so far. 
my bad day was triggered I think by the psychiatrist ringing me to say that I’m not well and he wants me to start taking Aripiprazole over the telephone.

 

I told him I’m doing well and the meds just make me poorly. He probably means well but he said that I’m not myself and they just need to find the right meds for me, he can’t promise that I will be back to old self but they will get me close. Hearing all that has just made me anxious again and I was feeling pressured to take medication, like if I don’t i am on my own if I get really poorly again. I know it probably wasn’t meant by that but as I’ve only been on 3.75mg Mirtazapine a day for a short time and it’s a long road ahead it really hurt. The trouble is they won’t prescribe me any more Mirtazapine now as they want me to take this drug. I’m not going to take it but that puts an end to the 6mth stabilisation on the 3.75mg of mirtazapine  
 

[AlanC]

Hello Alan,

 

Remember that you're entitled to ask for another opinion if you don't like what the psychiatrist is suggesting.

 

As a first step do you think your GP would be reasonable if you went back and said the psychiatrist had switched you to paroxetine which made things worse, so you'd gone back on the mirtazapine and everything now seems to be improving, so you'd really prefer not to go through another switch or have another drug added?

 

I'd strongly suggest not dropping any hint that you've reduced the dose and are trying to get off the mirtazapine: I made the mistake of telling my GP I wanted to get off citalopram and was basically forced into a too fast taper as a result.

[Alan1234]

2 minutes ago, AlanC said:

Hello Alan,

 

Remember that you're entitled to ask for another opinion if you don't like what the psychiatrist is suggesting.

 

As a first step do you think your GP would be reasonable if you went back and said the psychiatrist had switched you to paroxetine which made things worse, so you'd gone back on the mirtazapine and everything now seems to be improving, so you'd really prefer not to go through another switch or have another drug added?

 

I'd strongly suggest not dropping any hint that you've reduced the dose and are trying to get off the mirtazapine: I made the mistake of telling my GP I wanted to get off citalopram and was basically forced into a too fast taper as a result.

Thanks for the advice Alan, I really appreciate your support.

 

Yes I’ve already asked my GP to prescribe me Mirtazapine liquid which is available so I can taper my doses more accurately, however he has declined this request 🤦🏻. 

[Rosetta]

Aripriprazole is used for bi-polar disorder and schizophrenia.  You have neither.  The side effects of that drug, sold as Abilify, are quite serious. About 10 percent of people or more get akathisia, headaches and/or INSOMNIA.  It affects the function of the pancreas. It can turn people into gamblers, obsessive shoppers, and people who “strongly crave” sex.  Lovely, huh?  Just what you need right now.  So, the possible side effects are all good reasons to respectfully decline the suggestion.
 

I’m going to post access to a link.  You can print out the document at the link and take it to your shrink.  Go to

 

The very first post has a link to something you can print out from the Royal College of Psychiatry. It explains WD from these drugs, and mirtazapine is right there in the column of drugs that have WD effects.

If I were you, I would keep taking the mirt until you see the shrink, and I would just tell him that you want back on mirt.  Let him choose the dose and then do what you’ve been doing to get 3.75.  That’s what I would do. 

 

That topic I gave you coaches people in how to talk to a doctor about WD and tapering.  Do not talk about tapering!  This guy wants you on a drug.  He thinks you have bipolar disorder (which is absurd.  Have you even been manic at all? I doubt it, but even if you have, WD and insomnia can make you feel that way.)

 

If I were you, I would give him what he wants: you will take a drug, but you feel very, very strongly that it must be mirtazapine.  He needs to feel respected.  Try to make him feel that way while politely requesting that your feelings be respected, too.  He decides the dose.  
 

You think you are in WD.  Here’s the thing you found from the Royal College.  Isn’t this interesting?  It sounds exactly like what you are experiencing.  Can he help you prove or disprove that by giving you mirtazapine, please?

 

Don’t even bring up tapering — in the future, in your next life, whether anyone should ever taper — nothing!  You wish you had never gone off mirtazapine.  What a mistake!  How could you have ever been so mistaken, etc., etc.
 

How much do you have left?

 

 

[AlanC]

Hello Alan,

 

So sorry to hear your GP isn't inclined to help.

 

I see Rosetta has already linked to the talking to doctors thread, and the RCPsych leaflet, but there's one one more thing that might be useful: the NICE guidelines on switching antidepressants. If you scroll down to the section about Mirtazapine you'll see it suggests that you "cautiously cross-taper" when switching, and not do an abrupt change as the psychiatrist had you do when attempting to switch to paroxetine.

 

You might be able to use that to get your GP or psychiatrist to recognise that the abrupt switches between drugs have caused you problems, and that if they are willing to let you continue on the Mirtazapine then everything should improve. Like Rosetta said, tell them what they want to hear: that going back on the Mirtazapine has helped you.

 

Having to deal with this while you're suffering horrible withdrawal symptoms isn't going to be easy, but you've seen some real improvements with the lower dose of Mirtazapine so it's really worth trying.

[Alan1234]

5 hours ago, AlanC said:

Hello Alan,

 

So sorry to hear your GP isn't inclined to help.

 

I see Rosetta has already linked to the talking to doctors thread, and the RCPsych leaflet, but there's one one more thing that might be useful: the NICE guidelines on switching antidepressants. If you scroll down to the section about Mirtazapine you'll see it suggests that you "cautiously cross-taper" when switching, and not do an abrupt change as the psychiatrist had you do when attempting to switch to paroxetine.

 

You might be able to use that to get your GP or psychiatrist to recognise that the abrupt switches between drugs have caused you problems, and that if they are willing to let you continue on the Mirtazapine then everything should improve. Like Rosetta said, tell them what they want to hear: that going back on the Mirtazapine has helped you.

 

Having to deal with this while you're suffering horrible withdrawal symptoms isn't going to be easy, but you've seen some real improvements with the lower dose of Mirtazapine so it's really worth trying.

Thanks for this Alan 

[Alan1234]

I’m having a really bad day today. 
ive been feeling more down and anxious since the Psychiatrist phoned me 2/3 days ago and said in a very patronising way that I’m not well and he wants me to start on an anti psychotic. I know he probably means well but it’s still rocked me. To compound this my wife has just told me that she doesn’t want me back and my 17year old daughter doesn’t want to talk to me. I have a fascist and scalp rash that I think is  seborrhoea dermatitis that only started when I was coming off Venlafaxine in 2020. My whole scalp, eyebrows, moustache, beard and cheeks go very red and sore every few days then all the skins flakes off everywhere then the process repeats. I look awful and my GP and Pharmacist don’t seem to know how to get rid of it. 
 

im feeling so low today, I can’t even get rid of whatever the skin condition is, it’s just getting worse and now i feel completely alone. I’m 47 yrs old ive lost my family, I’m in constant pain and I’m due a spinal fusion at the end of the year, I just don’t know when all this will end. I can’t even get rid of a rash for goodness sake 

 

Edited April 11, 2021 by ChessieCat
fixed up font colour

[ChessieCat]

Just because a medical professional suggests something does not mean that you have to take it.

 

It's important to understand that it is easy for a medical professional to think that they know what they are doing because many of us have been brought up to believe that they do, but they are human beings.  If they prescribe something and it makes you worse, you are the one who will suffer, not them.

 

I suggest that you watch these videos.  Gwen Olsen was a pharmaceutical representative for 15 years and experienced her own psychiatric drug issues and also saw what bad medical advice caused her niece.

 

Interview:  Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher (51 minutes Gwen Olsen - ex pharmaceutical representative)
 

Video:  Ex-Big Pharma Rep:  We’re Trained To Misinform -The Drugs ARE Dangerous (6 minute video)
 

Video:  Ex-Big Pharma Rep:  Manipulating Doctors to Sell More Drugs (10 minute video)

 

 

Edited April 11, 2021 by ChessieCat

[Alan1234]

9 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Just because a medical professional suggests something does not mean that you have to take it.

 

It's important to understand that it is easy for a medical professional to think that they know what they are doing because many of us have been brought up to believe that they do, but they are human beings.  If they prescribe something and it makes you worse, you are the one who will suffer, not them.

 

I suggest that you watch these videos.  Gwen Olsen was a pharmaceutical representative for 15 years and experienced her own psychiatric drug issues and also saw what bad medical advice caused her niece.

 

Interview:  Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher (51 minutes Gwen Olsen - ex pharmaceutical representative)
 

Video:  Ex-Big Pharma Rep:  We’re Trained To Misinform -The Drugs ARE Dangerous (6 minute video)
 

Video:  Ex-Big Pharma Rep:  Manipulating Doctors to Sell More Drugs (10 minute video)

 

 

Thanks appreciate your help 

[Rosetta]

Alan,

 

Hi.  Oh my.  How can I help?  Anything I say — it’s just words on a page from a person you have never met.  
 

I’m sorry this rambles.  I can’t edit it right now.
 

This is very important: you have survived withdrawal from two of the most notoriously difficult to taper antidepressants - Paroxetine (Paxil) and Venlafaxine (Effexor).  You are now using mirtazapine, which is a TCA, a tricyclic anti-depressant.  I don’t know where it falls on the range of “easy” to difficult to taper drugs, but I do believe that it’s very good news that you are well past the days when you took Paxil and Effexor.  While it’s possible that you are, in fact, dealing with Post-WD syndrome from V, at least it’s been nearly at least 9 months since you took it.  I’m hoping that you will have an easier time due to that fact.
 

I have been very, very low at times, too, of course.  I was lucky that my husband stayed by me.  It has been pretty awful for him through all of this.   The damage to our relationship continues to this day.  It’s sad.
 

I’m very sorry that your wife is reacting this way.  You know, even people who take medicines they are prescribed for the first time don’t always get better.  It often makes people worse. Anti-depressants always made things worse for me either right away or eventually.
 

The fact that you were able to tolerate those drugs so well all those years was lucky.  Your wife may think that if they worked the last time they will work this time.  She’s mistaken, but it must seem logical to her.  I’m sorry, but I have no advice for you when it comes to her.  You could send that print out, the one I suggested you show to the doctor, to her, I suppose, but you may not want to see her reaction.  I really can’t think of anything to say about her.
 

As to your daughter, I’m relieved to hear that your daughter is 17.  I was worried that she was little, and your chance of a relationship with her might be lost.  It’s very nice to find that you have all ready formed a relationship with her.  That cannot be taken away so easily.

 

At 17 years old, she’s completely self-absorbed, without life experience, and incapable of understanding that her father might have challenges that interfere with putting her needs first.  That must be so hard for you.  I find it hard when my 9 year old doesn’t understand my limitations.  

You should pat yourself on the back that you brought her this far, in my opinion.  These drugs can turn on us at any point.  It may be a tough year for her, but I’m guessing that you have been struggling with the side effects of the drugs for a while — perhaps without realizing it — and having brought her to 16 or 17 years old is an achievement, in my opinion.
 

However your daughter handles this, and whatever lack of insight and compassion she exhibits right now, please know that 17 years of being her father can’t be washed away by the present circumstances of your illness.  As she grows and learns, she will come to understand better how this affected you.  You have to try to continue to show her that you love her during this time and in the next year or two, of course, but that bond that you have formed can’t be broken by this.  It may seem that it has been, but that’s simply not possible.
 

She’s old enough to form her own opinions that are different her mother’s.  She is about to see for herself that good intentions don’t make our lives what we want them to be. She is going to be experiencing things that help her learn that life is messy, and we can’t always do things the way we would like to do them.
 

A card, a voice message, a little gift you ask your mother to give her when they see each other — those will help.  If you never get responses don’t assume there is no effect from your efforts.  She will not forget that you tried.  Write letters to her and keep copies for her to read later when she has grown up.  Later, she will be able see that you are a human being, not just a man who “should be” doing things for her without any illness or medical mistakes or accidents interfering.  Many parents give up when a child pushes them away.  This is a mistake.  
 

You can’t let your wife’s attitude determine how your daughter feels about you years from now.  It’s going to be really demoralizing if your daughter doesn’t respond or doesn’t respond positively, but you can’t give up.  Your daughter needs to be able to look back and see that you tried to remain in touch with her despite any refusal to reciprocate or angry responses on her part.
 

She’s not going to stop loving you.  That’s impossible.  Even abused children love their mothers and fathers.  When she is older, and she looks back on this, she is going to realize you were very sick, but you still loved her.  Especially when she has children, she will see that we are all human, and we have challenges that are very difficult.  We can’t always do what we want to do for our children.  There are some illnesses that are too severe.

 

Over the next 10 years, this issue of ADs and the iatrogenic damage they have caused will be in the news over and over.  Your daughter will see it.  She will put two and two together.  When she’s old enough to have compassion for your predicament, your relationship will be so important.
 

After all, you are actually doing what your wife and mother want you to do — you are taking action to help your brain heal.  The fact that they are mistaken about how that should be done does not make your efforts invalid.  You are going to heal and be able to function again.
 

For now, you need to survive this and do what needs to be done to shorten the time you are ill.  That is what you owe your daughter.  You owe it to her to love her and do everything you can right now to get better and be capable of being there for her when she is older.  No more.  You have no more to give at the moment.
 

As you get well you will be able to do more.  She’s going to need you whether she is angry or not, and you will be able to provide for her again someday.  It might be even more important at that time than it is now.  We don’t know what the future holds.  We just have to try to be around when it comes.
 

As sad as it is, I think it might be a good thing that you aren’t living with your daughter right now.  Having been through this horrendous experience, I can tell you there is no way I could have provided for my daughter without my husband’s help. She was only 5 when I fast tapered/CT’d Zoloft and Trazodone.  I wish she had not seen me having akathisia, but I’m grateful that my husband believed that she needed me at that young age.  He made sure we stayed together so that I could be her mother when I was able to function.  She never felt abandoned.

 

For a teenager there are so many way to help them see they are not abandoned.  You have options I did not have.  The fact that you have been there through your daughter’s formative years will make an enormous difference.  Seeing you struggle every day is probably something she should not see.

 

It’s very painful right now that she won’t talk to you, I know.  She can’t see this from your viewpoint at her age.  It must be really hard to imagine what you can do for her right now.  Try to think of what you would want if you were a child with a parent in the same circumstances — the SAME circumstances — not perfect circumstances in which you could work and pay rent.  What do you want her to remember when she is old enough to understand you could not work?

 

It would be so much easier, in the short term, if we had been in accidents.  Then maybe our families would understand more easily.  But, brain injuries from accidents don’t always heal.  We are so lucky that we can heal from this.  It’s such a miracle. There are a lot of mistakes doctors make that cannot heal.  

Rosetta

 

[Alan1234]

Hi Rosetta 

 

it doesn’t ramble it all makes sense and gets to the point.
I will keep referring back to your words  when I feel like I do at the moment,  and when I need to renew my hope in this situation. I feel so alone and I don’t really have any friends. Somehow I need to correct this and start connecting with people but it’s so hard when you feel like this 

[marie123]

Hi Alan. I see you have been having a tough time dealing with mirtazapine and doctors. Rosetta is right, you need to play the game with doctors. This is what I have done. I don't mention how badly I feel during tapering or even that I've started tapering. I smile and put on "an act" for the doctor so he keeps my supply of med. You can just tell your general practicioner that "I feel so much better taking mirtazapine". Ignore the other doctor's suggestion of other drugs. Just say I feel better now on mirt. I am tapering mirt using a liquid and it's going okay. Get stable on mirt and go slow. You'll get off of it that way. And do not tell the doctors you are tapering and have symptoms.

 

I see you were on trazodone for a week. By the time I was done with my taper I had over 1000 pills left. My main reason for going to my doctor was getting an ongoing script. So I just was very pleasant and smiled while I asked for a refill. I hoarded them. I hope you feel better soon. Marie.

[marie123]

Alan I forgot to mention this.  I am getting rashes from Mirt in different places on my body as I taper. Strange rashes that I believe will fade once I'm off. Marie.

[Alan1234]

16 hours ago, marie123 said:

Alan I forgot to mention this.  I am getting rashes from Mirt in different places on my body as I taper. Strange rashes that I believe will fade once I'm off. Marie.

Thanks for this Marie, I think mine are related to the Venlafaxine withdrawal as that’s when they started when I was starting my now to know far to fast taper off it.  But hopefully like you say it’s all our nervous system so it should eventually recover 

[Rosetta]

I hope you start feeling better soon.  It’s a very hard thing to go through.  I’m sorry you don’t have friends.  That’s rough.  I don’t have any close friends.  It makes me very sad.  I keep hoping that I can change that, but when my brain is so unreliable, it’s hard to make connections.  Other people are on these drugs, too.  You never know who is, and how that affects the way they go about their lives.   Being unable to drink makes it harder to make friends, too, but drinking will prevent stabilization, so . .  ..  
 

Just focus on getting well.  You will be lonely, especially with Covid out there making everything a mess.  Some people play online video games in order to have friends. It will mess with your sleep if you don’t stop at least 2 hours before bed, and I had to go to bed at 8 because I would wake up at 5 with cortisol spikes.  Otherwise, I couldn’t get enough sleep to heal.

 

Getting out for walks in a park (not by a busy road) did more for me than anything.  Learning a language and to play violin helped my brain re-wire itself, too.

 

Hang in there.  It will get better!

[Alan1234]

2 hours ago, Rosetta said:

I hope you start feeling better soon.  It’s a very hard thing to go through.  I’m sorry you don’t have friends.  That’s rough.  I don’t have any close friends.  It makes me very sad.  I keep hoping that I can change that, but when my brain is so unreliable, it’s hard to make connections.  Other people are on these drugs, too.  You never know who is, and how that affects the way they go about their lives.   Being unable to drink makes it harder to make friends, too, but drinking will prevent stabilization, so . .  ..  
 

Just focus on getting well.  You will be lonely, especially with Covid out there making everything a mess.  Some people play online video games in order to have friends. It will mess with your sleep if you don’t stop at least 2 hours before bed, and I had to go to bed at 8 because I would wake up at 5 with cortisol spikes.  Otherwise, I couldn’t get enough sleep to heal.

 

Getting out for walks in a park (not by a busy road) did more for me than anything.  Learning a language and to play violin helped my brain re-wire itself, too.

 

Hang in there.  It will get better!

It’s fine I kind of like my own company anyway. It just makes me sad when I see family’s out together or groups of people having a good time but It only feels really rough because if what’s happened with my wife and family but I need to realise how lucky I am and take it steady.
I used to drink and take illegal drugs of which I now realise I was doing to fit in and deal with social anxiety and my depression. I spent a time in rehab for that 8yrs ago and now I’m totally clean, that’s why getting off these prescription drugs will hopefully give me closure for that period in my life as I’m a completely different person now.

ive actually managed to go back to some part time work to help me be distracted from the withdrawal which is a blessing. I’m now exercising with what I can do over the last 3 weeks too. I’m pretty exhausted but compared to how I was i am actually managing to get more sleep too. 
 

I need to look for positive things like you did to rewire my brain. 
 

thank you for your support, it’s been my biggest foundation to be able to progress to how far I’ve managed to come in only a few weeks. Without everybodies help on hear I dread to think where I would be now.  I know the scary bit is, it’s going to go on for a lot longer yet, but knowing there are kind people who understand and have walked in these shoes, gives me the strength to continue on this journey where three weeks ago i literally couldn’t even put one foot in front of the other 

[Rosetta]

I’m so glad we could help you.  It’s nice to hear you getting everything under control and getting some sleep.

 

🦋Rosetta

[Rosetta]

Alan,
 

How are you doing?

 

Rosetta

[Alan1234]

18 hours ago, Rosetta said:

Alan,
 

How are you doing?

 

Rosetta

Hi Rosetta

im doing pretty amazing all things considered. Don’t get me wrong I’m still having some really down and tearful days but they aren’t the norm. I still have a lot of inappropriate background anxiety but I’m living again. My sleep isn’t great but to where it was it’s so much better. I can now get 3hrs then I wake up and sometimes can’t get back to sleep for the anxiety but sometimes I can and get almost 6hours a day now!! 😃. 
 

My employers decided to keep my job open for me and have paid for sessions with a therapist for me. They have even agreed to pay for 4 sessions with my family to see if I can repair any relationships there so I can see my daughter again. So I’ve been back in work again so I have less time to think and worry about myself as I can keep busy. 
 

So all in all I’m feeling very blessed and thankful. 
 

I know I couldn’t of got to this point without yours and the other moderators help and Alan. Those words in the very very dark times someone gave me hope and belief. 
 

I know this is going to be a long long battle as the years of the drugs and what they will have done to my system can’t just be forgotten but I have so much hope now. 
 

I managed to get liquid Mirtazapine prescribed by my Doctor. I’m taking 3.5mg a day. It was against his and the Psychiatrists advice as they labelled me bi polar but I have read all the literature which everyone directed me to and have deep belief in my decision.
 

I know I’m going to struggle on my own when my therapy finishes very shortly and life will be a bigger test then again. I’m looking at AA/NA recovery groups in my area to hopefully gain strength, support and hopefully when I’m better help others. 
 

Rosetta I hope you and your family are well. I was only thinking of you yesterday. 
 

Thank you 🙏  

[AlanC]

Hello Alan,

 

I was just wondering how you were getting on. That's really good news all round. 🙂

 

I hope the therapy works well. Way back during my initial bout of depression (20+ years ago) I was able to do the same: it took a while for them to find out what worked and to get me to open up and talk, but once I did it was far more helpful than the antidepressants. So if it does help, it really is worth keeping practicing what you learn. And remember the fact the company you work for obviously value you: something like that can really help, too.

[Rosetta]

I’m so happy to hear that you are able to work and getting support from your employer!  That’s truly wonderful.  Good for you for insisting that you will take a tiny dose.  I’m glad your doctor wasn’t a jerk about it.

 

I hope you can repair the issues with your kids.  That must be very stressful.
 

AA/NA — there is a thread here about the experiences people have had.  It might help you to read it beforehand.
Don’t let anyone tell you that you have to cold turkey mirt in order to be accepted or “truly” be in recovery.  However, if you avoid all alcohol for the next several years, you will be much better off, and being with people who do so would help you do that.  Even one glass of wine can cause kindling and set back a recovery for some people even years later, and no one knows which ones.  
 

Be prepared to meet people who deny that ADs cause protracted withdrawal and who insist that they are a godsend.  ADs are prescribed to alcoholics at times, and some people feel very threatened if what they believe to be saving them is called out as dangerous for some people.
 

Getting your teeth worked on is another pitfall like alcohol.  Insist upon a non-adrenaline numbing agent.  Find out what color the cartridges are and verify that you are getting what you asked for.  I found out the hard way that a dentist will smile and agree with you, inject epinephrine into your gums, and then joke about your reaction.  Some of them think that a little heart pounding could be that bad, and they have never been educated about the fact that the consequences can be much worse.

 

You will fine.  If you are all ready feeling better that is such fantastic news!

 

Rosetta

[Rosetta]

I would be nervous about the spinal fusion.  The anesthesia might be a problem.  You have plenty of time to research it.   Maybe there is some way you can delay it.

[Rosetta]

How are you doing, Alan?

[Alan1234]

Hi Rosetta

 

ive not been doing too good, feels like back to square one. I’ve been getting severe panic attacks on a daily basis and the anxiety is through the roof. 
 

I ended up at the ER a couple of nights ago as I was convinced I was dying with a Heart attack as I’ve passed out a couple of times and been struggling with breathing. The panic attack are pretty scary as I go really dizzy and have to stop what I’m doing. Now I know what they are I just need to learn to deal with them. I’m also finding it hard to sleep again. Doctors are putting pressure on me again to take stuff for the anxiety. I haven’t done i just need to keep finding strength to get through this and find strength from people who have overcome this. I’ve never had a panic attack in my life before coming off Anti Depressants and never known anxiety like this before. I’ve been taking 3.75mg of mirtazapine for the last two months but now I question if I’ve made any progress. I’ll keep going but it’s getting unbearable again and struggling to be able to work. 
 

thank you for your kind thoughts. I have been reading inspirational messages on here to help me to keep going.

[Rosetta]

I’m glad to are able to resist the pressure to take drugs.  I wish there were a solution in that direction, but more tinkering with the nervous system is going to irritate it.  Yes, it will seem you have made no progress, but you can’t see it yet.  When you get a break from the anxiety, even for an hour, that’s evidence of your body’s ability to fix this.  
 

There is a lot of inspiration on this site.  I’m really glad you found it.

[Rosetta]

How are you, Alan?

 

I saw your post about BB.  While you are sorting that out, I can’t remember whether you have tried magnesium.  
 

You can take an Epsom salts bath, make a magnesium oil for your skin out of Epsom salts or ingest mag dissolved in water.  I don’t recommend that you follow the directions on the powdered mag container.  Use a lot less and work your way up to see how much you can tolerate.  If you take too much, it causes diarrhea.  So, Alto recommends that you take a little at a time throughout the day instead of drinking a whole glass at once.   A lot of people in WD are low in mag, I think.  Do you have muscle cramps in your calves?  That is a symptom of low mag.
 

After you try mag and determine that you are having no negative reaction, you can add fish oil.  In the US, one can buy fish oil in a bottle that is refrigerated and tastes like key lime pie.  Some people eat fish which are high in omega 3s.  You need to avoid MSG if you are eating fish that is processed such as frozen, breaded filets.  Check the labels.

 

I hope you feel better soon.

[Alan1234]

5 hours ago, Rosetta said:

How are you, Alan?

 

I saw your post about BB.  While you are sorting that out, I can’t remember whether you have tried magnesium.  
 

You can take an Epsom salts bath, make a magnesium oil for your skin out of Epsom salts or ingest mag dissolved in water.  I don’t recommend that you follow the directions on the powdered mag container.  Use a lot less and work your way up to see how much you can tolerate.  If you take too much, it causes diarrhea.  So, Alto recommends that you take a little at a time throughout the day instead of drinking a whole glass at once.   A lot of people in WD are low in mag, I think.  Do you have muscle cramps in your calves?  That is a symptom of low mag.
 

After you try mag and determine that you are having no negative reaction, you can add fish oil.  In the US, one can buy fish oil in a bottle that is refrigerated and tastes like key lime pie.  Some people eat fish which are high in omega 3s.  You need to avoid MSG if you are eating fish that is processed such as frozen, breaded filets.  Check the labels.

 

I hope you feel better soon.

Hi Rosetta

im not very good I’m afraid.

I have been telling my doctor about my heart rate being 30bpm higher at rest and that it feels like my heart has been stopping for 12mths. Well I had an Ecg last week then a 24hr one.

it turns out that my heart went into VF during it with the symptoms I’ve been complaining about. I received a call from a cardiologist yesterday and I have to do into hospital for more tests tomorrow. He thinks I have myocarditis but because of the length of time it’s been going on for and over the last few months I also have chest pain and passed out twice and with the VF on the ECG that I have some damage to my heart. He says I will require medication and possibly a ICD fitted.

im just in shock really still. I’ve been telling my doctor my symptoms for the last 12 mths and he kept telling me it’s just anxiety and kept pressing me to take drugs