sofasogood: 6.5 years of Citalopram: After 3 months of tapering coping with withdrawal

[sofasogood]

Hello everyone.

 

I hope you are all doing well.

I apologize in advance for writing mistakes, that might occur, because english is not my native language.

 

I was put on Citaloram 20mg because of a burnout I had while trying to manage my own small company and trying to keep it afloat. I had severe vertigo sometimes, mind racing, loss of speech and insomnia.

After I was sent to the hospital and they released me by telling me I was perfectly fine I went to see a psychiatrist on my own. He told me, this was normal, I was overworked and I had, what he called fatigue depression. But he never told me, I should get counceling though and left me pretty much alone with the Citalopram afterwards.

My insurance was not paying for any counceling either way, and after stabilizing I could soldier on and for a while it worked out.

3 years into taking it I felt kind of "normal" again (but I was lacking the feeling of being able to really be happy) and so tried tapering off myself, by splitting my pills first in half then into quarters and so on, until I ended up taking little splits every 3 to 4 days. This ended in giving me severe heart racing, gut issues and panic attacks, so after 3 months of complete havoc I decided to go back on 10 mgs.

After another another 3 years my stomach and gut started to act out and after being introduced to leaky gut, I started to consult a funtional medicine doctor (these are hard to find here and I thought I was very fortunate to find one near me). She told me, I should get rid of my antidepressants, because those could be a contributing factor to my leaky gut and other issues I was having with my gut at that time. So I tapered off with ecitalopram drops in about 3 months. She also gave me 5htp (150mg) and DHEA (25mg) to support the taper. First I didn't notice much, but about 2 months later I had a severe crash in the morning with crying, restlesness and my mood was just really really bad. Fortunaly I have good friends, that took me for a walk immediatly and by the afternoon I was kind of stable again. But since then i feel very disconnected to my body, the challenges of life often feel crushingly heavy. I have histamine, almond, caseine intolerance as well as cross allergies associated with those as well as IBS. I have rosacea and I feel my wound healing has become incredibly slow. My body constantly feels out of energy and in the mornings my legs feel like they are made out of concrete. Sleep is not good and I am constantly overthinking everything. I have managed to get some understanding of the mechanisms I revert back to when I feel down, by going to therapy for the last 2 years, but after quitting Citalopram it feels as if I am starting square one.

Since I didn't know what was going on, I thought my gut was completely out of balance and tried one elimination diet after the other until I finally ended up going carnivore, which put too much pressure on me, because I heard horror stories of never being able to revert back from that (I want to be able to eat "normally" again some day). Currently I am bringing back plant foods one by one, to find out, which ones I tolerate (finger crossed).  

Only after discovering this site, did I start to understand what was happening to me. So I have been probably tapering off way to fast and I am now in the middle of trying to find out how to live with the symptoms.

I am still working (home office gives me the opportunity to schedule my day around my ups and downs) but since I am in a creative field I often struggle, because my creativity is almost non existent at the moment.

Libido is not working as well and Covid has been a huge challenge, as well as separating from my girlfriend last year.

So here I am on my journey and after reading a lot of succes stories I am determined to get back to health and happiness!

 

I wish you all fantastic healing

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by arbor

[arbor]

Welcome @sofasogood to SA.

I'm glad you found us.  The symptoms you describe while on Citalopram and during withdrawal, sadly, are not unusual.   I encourage you to browse the site as you will certainly find that you are not alone in the terrible suffering these drugs can cause.  The good news though, as you've already alluded to in the success stories, is that we do heal.  We can't predict how long it will take, but it sounds like you are doing many things that will help you.  Ultimately, time and patience are our allies.  If you haven't had a chance to read in the symptoms and self care section, I recommend it as a rich source of information and experience.  

 

Thank you for completing your signature.   I wonder if you could clarify when you took your last dose of escitalopram liquid?  You also mention that your doctor put you on

9 hours ago, sofasogood said:

5htp (150mg) and DHEA (25mg)

 

I want to mention that these can be problematic for some people during w/d as our systems are often extra sensitive.  You can of course, determine that for yourself.  

 

Because of such sensitivity, we don't suggest many supplements, but 3 that many of us find helpful are magnesium and omega-3 fish oil. Here are the links for info about these. It is suggested to add one at a time, and start with a low dose to see how it affects you.   

 

Magnesium

 

Omega 3 Fish Oil 

 

Melatonin 

 

You did go through a quick taper by the standards of SA.  We recommend around 10%.  However, you are now enough months out that reinstating and tapering more slowly may not be the best option.  Here is more information on that:

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

Tips for tapering off Celexa (citalopram)

 

The fact that you have managed w/d this long is a big accomplishment.  Your system is healing and while it is the symptoms can be excruciating.  Please know that you will gradually and the longer you are off these drugs, reclaim your health free of them.  let me share with you Alto's list:

Alto’s list:

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Neuro-emotions

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Easing your way into meditation for a stressed-out nervous system

 

Music for self-care: calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

Ways to cope with daily anxiety

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals 

 

Shame, guilt, regret, and self-criticism

 

This is your Introduction site where you can ask questions and connect with other members.

Let us know how you are doing. 

Arbor

[sofasogood]

Hello arbor.

 

Thank you for having me. I am very greatful to have somewhere to look for answers and clues!!!!

To reply to your question about 5htp and DHEA. I took them for about 3 months, but a week ago I  did a 4 day mimiking fast and since then I have not been taking them anymore. It was recommended to stop all supplements during that time. Havent't felt a difference so far.

Yesterday and today have been really good days, so I am hoping it will last a bit, because everything just feels so much better right now. Yesterday night though, I woke up with a weird stomach feeling with pain in the back and in the kidney area as well. After putting a hot water bottle onto my tummy it eventually got better and I went back to sleep. I also noticed, that I seem to wake up after dreaming vividly, but this has been discribed by some people in the sleep cycle thread, if I remember right. I started smoking again, which kind of gives me some comfort, but I want to get off it again, because I know that it will not help with my histamine intolerance. Still lots to do ! I have a boxing gym appointmet tomorrow.  I realized some weeks ago, that my crazy energy surges can be remedied lots by punching a pillow. It feels like trapped emotions, that I am not really able to release. I will have to figure out, how much I am able to do, without having to cope with recovery afterwards too much  though. I updated my signature as good as I could.

 

Hope you are doing well

 

Cheers

[arbor]

This is wonderful @sofasogood.  You are doing so many good things to help yourself heal.  (I can see how punching and boxing might get rid of the negative energy☺️)

6 hours ago, sofasogood said:

Yesterday and today have been really good days

Good news!  Even if they don't last, they're excellent signs of the direction you're headed☀️🌈🎈

 

Here is a link where members discuss smoking during w/d.  Perhaps it will be helpful, or you can add your comments and questions:

Smoking cessation, nicotine, e-cigs - Symptoms and self-care ...

Glad you tummy feels better,

Arbor

[sofasogood]

Hello Arbor. 
Thank you for your link and your wishes. It seems my window was short lived. I got my second vaccination shot the Friday after and that send me into the 

next wave. My mind is going in circles and I am fixated on my rosacea as if it could tell me if I am going in the right direction or not. Since I have been slowly

introducing vegetables back into my diet, my rosacea has been getting worse again and this makes me doubt everything I am doing and I feel I am going backwards instead of forwards. I am well aware, that this is also a side effect of withdrawal. But it is still hard to keep calm, when emotions just rush in and drown you. Logic just doesn‘t work in those situations.

 

I have read the link about smoking and have written there a bit as well. Very informative!

Boxing didn‘t work out, because I put too much pressure on myself about going. The night before I had bad stomach and intestinal pains and didn‘t sleep almost all night. Can‘t tell If that comes from withdrawal, stress or nutrition…that frustrates me.

 

I will just have to plow on and give my body time to heal.

 

All the best wishes to everyone, that might read this!

 

Have a very nice day!

 

[arbor]

Dear @sofasogood  I'm so sorry you're having these symptoms.  I had a strong recurrence of early w/d symptoms after my second vaccine.  This seems to happen for some of us.  The symptoms have slowly been returning to where I was prior to getting the vaccine.  Have you followed the conversations and recent studies in this link on the Covid vaccine?   

 

COVID19 vaccine and withdrawal

 

As you say, your symptoms could also be part of the typical pattern of waves and windows.  This link might be useful if you haven't read it:

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

22 hours ago, sofasogood said:

Logic just doesn‘t work in those situations.

 

This aspect is maddening, isn't it?!

22 hours ago, sofasogood said:

Boxing didn‘t work out, because I put too much pressure on myself about going. The night before I had bad stomach and intestinal pains and didn‘t sleep almost all night.

 

 This happens to me as well whenever something is on my mind.  Are there calming things you like to read or listen to before going to bed?  (I find videos too visually activating at that time--)

22 hours ago, sofasogood said:

I will just have to plow on and give my body time to heal.

I wish it were easier for all of us.  Meanwhile, my thoughts are with you.

It's good to hear from you,

Arbor

[sofasogood]

Hello Arbor.

I am so very grateful for your replies.

Yes I actually have found calming things to have around me in situations, whenever I might get anxious. I light a candle and read something. That makes my surroundings much more comfortable. Perhaps I can find some music that might fit into that situation as well. I will try it for sure.

I have found some people in this forum talking about skinproblems in their own stories (and as far as I could find out a lot of it heals away the more you heal all together), but is there a possibility of asking around for help in this matter? Or perhaps I did overlook a thread about skincare? I still have to find out so much more….

The link for the COVID vaccine is not working somehow, but I will search for it in the forum myself. Thank you for providing it!

It is somehow comforting, that other people get stomach problems as well, if they have some kind of pressure (and I really don‘t want anyone to have any pain, please don‘t get me wrong!) It‘s just so good to know you‘re not alone and crazy. I hope so much, that everything will get better!

3 hours ago, arbor said:

This aspect is maddening, isn't it?!

Yes totally, and even more so, because I am someone, that relies very much on logic thinking :D….well perhaps it is a good lesson in getting more in touch with my emotional side. Since I have a tendency to think too much instead of going to action. I noticed, that I was much more straight forward before I had my burnout. Afterwards, I tried to think through all possibilities (to prepare for all outcomes and also because I am such a perfectionist) and that often keeps me from actually doing things, because I go round in circles and miss opportunities.

 

hope you are doing well!

 

Sincerely

[arbor]

Hello @sofasogood

 

I send you best wishes.  Here's a link I found for skin issues:

Skin issues: hives, acne, dryness, itching etc. - Symptoms

I hope it works.  Here's another try at the Covid link:

 

Coronavirus / covid19, and psychiatric drug tapering 

 

The search box on this site doesn't work that well.  If you're looking for information, I recommend using your main browser to type in the subject you're interested in--(vaccine, for example): survivingantidepressants.org. 

It would look like this:  eczema: survivingantidepressants.org.

18 hours ago, sofasogood said:

It‘s just so good to know you‘re not alone and crazy.

Personally, this makes a huge difference.  Plus I appreciate the kindness people extend to each other.  We're lucky you've joined us--but it's very, very, very unlucky and unfortunate and terrible that you are suffering, that we all are suffering, at the hands of a disastrous medical nightmare.  Wheeoo--any German adjectives that could be added?!

 

I hope your day goes well today🕊️

Arbor

[sofasogood]

Hello Arbor.

 

Thank you for giving me the link again. It works now and I will have a read. I actually posted in the skin issues thread, but I did do a mistake and put my name underneath. Is there a way to edit that somehow. I was really tired and foggy, when I wrote that comment, and after having written a lot of other messages that day, it slipped my mind, that I shouldn’t sign with my own name

Kindness and understanding are the most important things, when you are in the situation we are all facing right now. People sympathetic and also with a background understanding. It so often seems to us, we are facing these goliaths all on our own, because this stuff is not widely accepted yet. So a little love goes very far! 
What do you mean with German adjectives in this case…sorry it seems I am a little slow to understand 😞.

My latest days are kind of ok, nothing out of the ordinary, but very flat feeling wise. I still have this fixation on my face an the rosacea, and therefore a terrible fear of making it worse again by eating the wrong things…. I hope this will improve with time, I so really do!

 

Have a beautiful day, whenever you read this.

 

sincerely

[arbor]

Hi @sofasogood

 

I went to your post under skin issues, and found that Brassmonkey had removed your name.   I've added a response on that link.  I hope it's useful.

Also, allow me to mention that AD's and w/d syndrome disrupt our neurotransmitters, including the dopamine receptors.  From what I've read, this effect can produce obsessive behaviors in us.  Forgive my science as I'm not a biochemist, but picking at our skin (or clothes, or overly checking our screens, etc.) are ways of getting "dopamine hits".  I try to be aware of the restless feeling that leads to these obsessions so that they don't hijack my attention.  Or sometimes it can be soothing to direct the restless, dopamine-seeking behavior into other activities that are repetitive and somewhat productive--like weeding in the garden, or knitting, or walking.  This restless worry is part of akathisia which will with time improve and finally fade.  Teaching yourself to calm your mind when the akathisia comes up can help in the short term as well as speed up recovery.  There are many approaches in the Self care section.  Perhaps you are beginning to find approaches of your own to help calm and steady yourself.  

On 8/11/2021 at 7:07 AM, sofasogood said:

a little love goes very far!

Bring on lots of support to yourself!!  This can be so very hard.  Reach out whenever you need.

 

To explain about "German adjectives", I meant that I had used so many English adjectives (unlucky, unfortunate, terrible, disastrous!!) that I wondered what German words could be added as well.  My brain has had so little sleep that I have to recognize that it makes no sense  when I'm communicating...

I hope you are sleeping🍀

Arbor

 

PS--I hope you were safe from the recent flooding.  We have 40C today.  Take care sofasogood.

[sofasogood]

Hello @arbor.

4 hours ago, arbor said:

Also, allow me to mention that AD's and w/d syndrome disrupt our neurotransmitters, including the dopamine receptors.  From what I've read, this effect can produce obsessive behaviors in us.

That makes a lot of sense! That is probably why smoking came creeping in the back door so easily again. 

 

4 hours ago, arbor said:

Forgive my science as I'm not a biochemist, but picking at our skin (or clothes, or overly checking our screens, etc.) are ways of getting "dopamine hits".

Yessss. I feel an „urgent“ need to look in the mirror, to see if my face has gotten worse or better. If it has gone redder, I feel depressed and if it didn‘t I really don‘t feel that relieved. Which will make me look in the mirror soon again…and so the (dopamine) hits keep on coming.

 

4 hours ago, arbor said:

Or sometimes it can be soothing to direct the restless, dopamine-seeking behavior into other activities that are repetitive and somewhat productive--like weeding in the garden, or knitting

I will try to find something, that does just that…I mean besides walking. I would love to own a garden I could weed, but taking care of some plants at home already made me feel like I could take care of something and keeping them alive just makes me a little proud 🙂.

 

4 hours ago, arbor said:

My brain has had so little sleep that I have to recognize that it makes no sense  when I'm communicating...

For one: do still have sleepless nights, or is taking care of the forum keeping you from having enough, or perhaps my brain is funky again and it is a figure of speech? Secondly I think I would counter the adjectives unlucky unfortunate and so on with wundervoll, unbeschreiblich and herzlich. Those mean wonderful, inexpressible and heartily. As in, how wonderful it was to discover I am not nuts and alone in this, inexpressible how people help each other here and how heartily people take care of each other! I am still just struck how amazing this is!

 

thanks for writing me back in the skin section. It really helps to get some confidence, that it will pass.

 

I hope you find well intended rest and I am so very grateful, that you are writing to me.

 

sincerely

 

P.S: Thanks to brassmonkey for take care of my fauxpas 

[arbor]

Hi @sofasogood,

These are wonderful!!

On 8/12/2021 at 5:12 PM, sofasogood said:

I would counter the adjectives unlucky unfortunate and so on with wundervoll, unbeschreiblich and herzlich. Those mean wonderful, inexpressible and heartily. As in, how wonderful it was to discover I am not nuts and alone in this, inexpressible how people help each other here and how heartily people take care of each other! I am still just struck how amazing this is!

I agree--I am so very grateful.

Thinking of you,

Arbor

 

 

[sofasogood]

Hello everyone!

 

So I had a week at my parents house, which was a great "holiday"! I do not have much money at the moment, flying is not that much an option because of covid and my diet needs some preparing, so I struggle with a normal holiday idea a lot. I actually was so nervous to drive the 3 hours to my parents house and having to deal with my lifestyle out of the safety of my home, that the night before I got really bad gut problems again. Once there I realised, that it was much less of a problem than I thought. My parents really helped me and I had the possibility of letting go a bit. I slept 10 hours a night and I a missing it now being back in my appartment. My best friend came over from London and I met my goddaughter for the first time in 2 years! I had to introduce myself all over again. And man has she gotten big! I also had long walks with my best friend, and it was talking just like in the good old days. That's what friendship is all about for me! I still had to bad waves during that time and needed a good crying to just get it out. But I am greatful that my parents do understand my situation. Much of it is actually due to this forum! I read them some of the success stories to showcase, what we are going through and where we want to be heading. They where shocked and my mum actually said to me, she would like to knock the gy out that put me on the meds

Waves just hit me so very hard and they are always so unexpected. It just comes over me, like a storm and everything just becomes pitch black and negative. At least I now know that crying is a very good way of getting to release some of that emotion, so it doesn't drown you. I used to eat it when I was younger, mistaking it for strength. And because I was taught, that everything can be resolved by thinking it through and rationalising it...well now I am certain, that the only way of dealing with all that stuff is through emotion! You might know where it comes from, but that doesn't give you much to go on when train hits you with full force. 

Right now I am trying to regain control of my regular workdays (kinda hard because my day/night rythm is still f***ed) and to keep myself busy by meeting some friends and going bouldering. Smoking is still an issue, I am trying to go off it, but am struggeling much (smoking further supresses DOA, the stuff getting rid of histamine in your body) and still need to figure out a strategy. I don't wanna take the long road over e-cigs again ( I did that years ago), so yeah I will have to think of something. At least I know that if I smoke in the mornings, it just makes my body feel really heavy and somehow numb....so I will try and not do that.

 

I am constantly thinking of all the people healing right now, because they found this site! Keep on going!

 

Sincerely yours 

 

sofa

[arbor]

Thank you for this wonderful post, @sofasogood.  It did my heart good to hear about your parents and friend and goddaughter.  The best medicine a person in withdrawal can have!💗

 

On 8/18/2021 at 4:15 PM, sofasogood said:

Waves just hit me so very hard and they are always so unexpected. It just comes over me, like a storm and everything just becomes pitch black and negative.

Yes, so true.  They're really challenging, aren't they.

 

On 8/18/2021 at 4:15 PM, sofasogood said:

At least I now know that crying is a very good way of getting to release some of that emotion, so it doesn't drown you.

The slightest thing--happy or sad--makes me cry these days.

 

It's good to hear how you're coping with all this.  Thanks for sharing🙏🍀🌞

Arbor

[sofasogood]

Hello @arbor

 

On 8/20/2021 at 5:06 AM, arbor said:

The slightest thing--happy or sad--makes me cry these days.

I feel you on that one. It seems like a default setting for me as well. Did it get better for you since the last time you wrote? Or do you feel this as a relief? I hope your life is full of wonderful events!

 

I have been stable for some time now, and it seems that is a good thing in itself. I am doing gratefullness exercises every day in the evening and this made me realize (after 3 months or so) how much I tend to forget positive events during the day. They are just shoved aside! This a pattern that seems to be happening to me a lot. So these exercises do work....but they need time and until now most of the time I stopped early, because the instant gratification wasn't happening.

It's the same with all the other issues as well it seems. I am very focussed on instant change and get frustrated quickly if the changes I make don't yeal results fast enough. The last few days were a bit better than the rest, so I think this could be called a window. But today I had a downer, by looking into the backview mirror of my car. Since I see myself as very "abnormally red" in the face I just couldn't take the hit in that moment. But a part of me at least said, that if I want to get through this, I need to be prepared to step up and give myself the possibility of healing. It seems there is a conversation going on in me. I'll take that a s a good sign.

Nights are still unregular, and I often wake up in the middle of the night and feel exhausted the next day. Heavy legs and exhaustion are my biggest enemies during the day. Often, if I still go for a walk or take the stairs instead of the elevator, I find myself having more energy in me than I expected. But the push to do so mentally strains me very much.

I just often feel tired and out of energy.

I smoke once and so ofen, keeping myself from reestablishing a habit, but since I have been eating a low histamine, low foodmap, ketogenic diet, there is not much enjoyment around food right now, and this gives me some feeling of a treat somehow. I know that it is bad for me, but I cannot do it all at once.

I will be going to a functional medicine clinic for 10 days in the near future. Perhaps they can give me some hints about all the food related topics. But I also know, that I need to keep listening to myself first. So if this goes sideways I will not just listen to what the doctors say.

 

That's it so far. My days often feel like a battle telling myself at each instance, not to give in to the negative thought process and to keep on training the positve mindset patterns. But it still fells like a constant battle, with not much of a holiday in between.

 

@ Arbor I hope you are doing well and I am very grateful for all the answers you are providing...especially about the picky behaviour, that seems to be a major part of my life right now.

Lots of love!

 

 

sofa

[arbor]

Hi @sofasogoodWonderful to hear from you.  I can relate to everything you are describing.  🥴 

2 hours ago, sofasogood said:

My days often feel like a battle telling myself at each instance, not to give in to the negative thought process and to keep on training the positve mindset patterns. But it still fells like a constant battle, with not much of a holiday in between.

Your gratitude practice inspires me to try it again.  Somewhere along the line, I'd let it lapse.  (Despair can be a hard battle for sure.)  I notice that I cry more on the days after a sleepless night.  Any kind of stress sets me up for rocky sleep.  Your determination to promote positive thoughts also inspires me.  If you feel like sharing, what helps you to return to the positive?

 

3 hours ago, sofasogood said:

I will be going to a functional medicine clinic for 10 days

Wow, that will be interesting.  Do they understand AD w/d?

I really appreciate how attentive you are being to your state of mind.

3 hours ago, sofasogood said:

I am very focussed on instant change and get frustrated quickly if the changes I make don't yeal results fast enough.

So true for me as well.  But you also mention it's getting better, and I would say that's happening for me--that I can watch my mind better and cool it down more comfortably.  You even mention that you've come into a window.  Oh, I hope it gives you a reprieve🙏

 

3 hours ago, sofasogood said:

I also know, that I need to keep listening to myself first.

Good!  I've grown suspicious of doctors' abilities to listen and not dictate.

There's so much here, and I'm enjoying hearing all of it.  Thank you.

And I also wanted to send you commiseration about visions in the mirror.  The red could be the result of a number of issues caused by the drug.  You've identified the histamine.  I had my mast cells checked which were found to be in a normal range.  So, today I'm choosing to wonder whether my skin issues have to do with my autoimmune system.  Probably my speculation is another example of my "picking"!  Anyway, I think the recommended supplements still are the best approach in my case.  Your skin eventually will heal, @sofasogood.  I'll hold that knowledge for you--until the time you're living it!

Hugs to you,

Arbor💗

[sofasogood]

Hello @arbor

 

It has been some time since my last entry. I have been going through some rough patches lately. I went on vacation in Italy for the last one and a half weeks, to relax and wrap my head around other things, than just sitting in my appartment, doing home office or trying to cope with the symptoms that I have. I was really anxious to go though, because my mind tried to trick me into staying home, to be safe and secure (just before we left I tried to find any kind of reason to stay, I was shaking and nervous and not real nice)

 

On 9/6/2021 at 3:28 AM, arbor said:

Probably my speculation is another example of my "picking"

My therapist calls it "the driver". The part of my personality, that wants to keep me "safe" and makes me reclude from life outside, so I cannot be hurt( or what "it" thinks could be hurting me) I don't know if this is part of w/d, but each time I try to overcome my fears, it takes all of my energy to even make the first step. And I find, that if I reach a state of deep relaxation, almost immediatly afterwards my mind and body kick into hyperdrive making all of my worst fears come to life. Its like rebounding from a wall and being propelled into the other direction.

When I was in Italy with my very best friends, there were some days I was feeling very relaxed and satisfied, but the rebounds were horrible and left me scared and frozen. As I already talked about before, I obsess over my rosacea, and am feeling ugly and I do think that no one will ever like and love me like I am. And that it only will get worse. I will glow hot red and this will make be die alone and withdrawn. 

Like so many people here before me have done and its being mentioned in the success stories as well. Hopelessness deep to the bone. I also have been diagnosed with body dismorphia, which makes the problem of obsessing over my face even worse. Crying still helps, but pushing on is soooo difficult. I still have lots of problems with different foods and I am afraid of eating anything else than the stuff I eat now. Which are about 6 foods in total. Yes I know I am repeating myself, but I feel like a broken record and I don't like the tune. 

I still try very hard to remeber the good moments and taking mental and physical pictures is very important. Something (the ominous driver) in me tries to prevent me from taking those. I do realise this but it is a sneaky son of b**ch. There is still psychological stuff to figure out and different battles to fight at different fronts. Do you sometimes "forget" you have w/d because the symtoms just are so overwhelming, you just don't remember the underlaying cause? That happens to me. I have to forcibly remind myself, that there is a condition, that I am trying to overcome right now, and that could be causing a lot of the symtoms I am experiencing. But there always is this nagging voice, that says: What if its not? What if you stay ugly and broken? You are just imagining things...other people heal....but perhaps you're different and you will just stay that way. As if I was trying to take away all possibility of getting back on my feet. Is that something people here do experience? From the success stories I gather that there is hopelessness and that you have to just keep on going.

The positive part of the trip was, that I got to experience, that I am able to deeply relax....just for a little bit at least. So not all hope is lost, I just have to prepare for the aftermath. That one is hard though.

And there was the beautiful meditarranean sea and sun ( as much as I could with the inflamed face) and long talks with my friends. It helps in the moments you are enjoying it, but it is much harder to recall it when you are in need of an anchor to hold you in a rough patch. Does it happen, that you go from good mood to bad to good to bad in one day? I had that 2 times this vacation. Always when I had some quiet in my mind before.

On 9/6/2021 at 3:28 AM, arbor said:

Good!  I've grown suspicious of doctors' abilities to listen and not dictate.

I still am very afraid, that they could make it worse! IBut I also know, that if I am to stressed and afraid, the results only can be bad. So I have to somehow make myself open to the idea, that they actually could help me. Hopefully they can try and tell me something about histmaine intolerance and how to get along with it. I am also trying some facial products for the redness.

 

On 9/6/2021 at 3:28 AM, arbor said:

that I can watch my mind better and cool it down more comfortably.

Did you achieve this with meditation or something similar, or is it just time, that makes it easier?

 

On 9/6/2021 at 3:28 AM, arbor said:

If you feel like sharing, what helps you to return to the positive?

For one, just the fact, that I realize, that I am tricking myself into forgetting, so much good stuff that happens during the day. Secondly I cherish good and long talks with my friends, and I am happy to say, that I have those kind of people, that don't tire of hearing me speak of the same things over and over again, because they just understand my situation. Friends or family are most important. I think you need people like that, and if you haven't, than try reaching out to support groups or find people that are alone as well, so you can comfort each other. I recently heard that there is telephone hotlines, that connect people to each other, who have been feeling alone or discouraged. Human contact is a wonder and compassion is a weapon against evil and dispair!

Everybody should be able to experiece that. And I often find, the only person taking that away from us, is ourselves (because we think we aren't worth it).

And thirdly I would say, being able to win every day, is something that inspires me as well. I got this quote from Mardy Fish (Tennis player). In his documentary about his mental health problems he said: Everyday is still a battle, but I win it now (or something in the ballpark :)) That made realize, that winning another day is a big accomplishment in the life of someone going through, what we are going through.

 

Hope eveybody is doing well and I wish for everyone having these w/d symptoms a speedy way to great health again!

 

Love to everyone!

 

Sofa

 

[arbor]

Dear @sofasogood🙏

 

What a beautiful post.  There are so many things that you've written here that give me strength and touch my heart.  Thank you for taking the time to share it.  

17 hours ago, sofasogood said:

winning another day is a big accomplishment in the life of someone going through, what we are going through.

I could never have imagined before getting involved with psycho-drugs how desperately challenging this experience is.  Sometimes words escape me--so I appreciate your writing them down. 

 

17 hours ago, sofasogood said:

Human contact is a wonder and compassion is a weapon against evil and dispair!

I will never take these for granted in the same way again--

 

You ask how I've been cultivating the ability to calm my mind.  It's veryveryveryvery hard....I do what you're doing, it sounds like, which is stepping outside my reactions to the symptoms of w/d, and training my mind to observe them arising and passing.  I try not to identify with any symptoms (or fears, desires, regrets).  Our minds have been messed with.  Our reactions to the effects of these drugs is chemical--not personal, and have nothing to do with our characters.  This is where I wish the mental health care system knew more about w/d syndrome.  In my view no diagnoses are valid except "w/d syndrome" that is, drug-induced reactions.  Something like the experience of overly worrying about aspects of our bodies is "normal" during w/d.  It's also common when people are overly stressed.  There need not be, in my opinion, any diagnostic label attached to it.  It comes and goes according to stress and we learn to accept that the mind needs to be soothed with healthy alternative thoughts and environments.  I think you're doing that on your own--label or no label, stigma or no stigma.  It could get harder for you.  Or at least it has for me as the months have weakened my system.  However, as you describe, we keep each other going.  I have no doubt that you will eventually recover.  Your beautiful heart will carry you.  I feel lucky to be included in your journey, Sofa.🕊️

Arbor💗

 

 

[sofasogood]

Hey @arbor.

 

Thank you for your last reply. It is sometimes hard to find your own way through the maze of "experts" scientists and gurus, that all promise, that their way is the one that is going to save you at last. Fear does play a big part in this as well.

 

As I recently mentioned, I went to this naturopathic clinic, to get myself looked at and perhaps to figure out, what was causing my massive digestive issues the last 2 weeks. What I've learned is, that w/d is not known by most doctors and doesn't play a major role in the treatments. If they are nice, they nod and listen, but in the end it doesn't really influence the treatment. It took them 4 days to give me food, that I could eat, and I had to fast my first day, because the kitchen was already closed....a bit chaotic in here. Most of the stuff they offer here I already do in bigger amounts and I am well aware, that I am not their standard patient. They don't really know much about carbohydrate sensitivity or insuline resistance either, so I need to figure out stuff on my own.

 

But their are also positive sides to this trip. I slept a lot and I actually get tired at around eleven now, which suggests a somehow normal rythm to me. I still wake up several times at night, but there is progress to be seen. We did muscle relaxation techniques after Jacobsen, and those chilled me out in a way I have not been for ages! In that session I realized, that my idea of a relaxed body and mind is far far from being really realxed and loose. When I started loosening during the exercise, my boddy tried to jerk me back into attack mode several times. Small lightning bolts into different body parts at times. But in the end I provailed and completely dozed off 😃😅.

So I am going to use this exercise for getting tired in the evening and to cool down from the day.

I also learned, that diarrhea actually is most of the times just happening because you put some food in the system from the top and the bowel needs to make space for it. The diarrhea content has been sitting in your colon for longer and the food culpable of triggering it has been eaten mostly 2 days earlier. Food takes between 2 to 3 days to pass the intestinal tract. That makes the food reintroduction tests that I do a bit easier to understand. 

 

I think my diarrhea ultimately came from fear of going to the clinic, having to deal with people that don't understand and being isolated. It started a week before I needed to check in, made me feel sluggish and triggered another wave with crying bad thoughts and neuro-emotions.

 

Right now, after one week in the clinic, I feel pretty good and I think this is due to the facts that ai gave myself some rest (no work, no commitments), I prevailed in getting good, healthy food and I actually trust myself now in making the right choices for myself, even if other people in my life might be sceptical. Some huge steps I think have been made. I am going to ride the window as long as possible!

 

Btw. I read @Cocopuffz17 success story, and I do believe, that nutrition does play a major role in getting our body healthy and whole again. I read somewhere, that we need to get everything out of the way, that hinders our body in doing, what it does best....healing. Since I am also struggling with stuff like smoking, fear of food sensitivities and my rosacea I hope this can make an impact in my life as well, when I have found the diet that works for me. Everybody is different and that is a wonderful thing. Being like the next person only makes you boring.

 

I will try and not give my symptoms stigmatized names, practice gratitude and try and stay the course. 

 

Big love to all the ones struggling and surviving another day, week, month....you rock!

 

Cheers

 

Sofa

 

 

 

[arbor]

What a wonderful message @sofasogood!!!

I've been dealing with some issues, and therefore haven't been able to read and respond to my mail until now.  It's such a treat to read your update.  I'm glad that even though the clinic is not up-to-date about w/d, at least you've gotten such good care, and that you were willing to try it despite the symptoms you're coping with.  I sense your recovery is building, and already beginning to reclaim your health and stability.

On 10/10/2021 at 4:12 AM, sofasogood said:

We did muscle relaxation techniques after Jacobsen, and those chilled me out in a way I have not been for ages! In that session I realized, that my idea of a relaxed body and mind is far far from being really realxed and loose. When I started loosening during the exercise, my boddy tried to jerk me back into attack mode several times. Small lightning bolts into different body parts at times. But in the end I provailed and completely dozed off 😃😅.

So I am going to use this exercise for getting tired in the evening and to cool down from the day.

Thank you for sharing this.  I'm going to look into this technique.  It was also interesting to learn more about diarrhea, such a problem for many of us.

On 10/10/2021 at 4:12 AM, sofasogood said:

I think my diarrhea ultimately came from fear of going to the clinic, having to deal with people that don't understand and being isolated. It started a week before I needed to check in, made me feel sluggish and triggered another wave with crying bad thoughts and neuro-emotions.

And yet, you still went.  Talk about courage! 💜

On 10/10/2021 at 4:12 AM, sofasogood said:

I feel pretty good and I think this is due to the facts that ai gave myself some rest (no work, no commitments), I prevailed in getting good, healthy food and I actually trust myself now in making the right choices for myself, even if other people in my life might be sceptical. Some huge steps I think have been made. I am going to ride the window as long as possible!

I definitely agree that you can trust yourself--that you're showing yourself that you can--which is not easy even at the best of times. 💗

On 10/10/2021 at 4:12 AM, sofasogood said:

Big love to all the ones struggling and surviving another day, week, month....you rock!

Thank you, Sofa, so do you🙏🌈🕊️🌞

Thinking of you,

Arbor

[sofasogood]

Hello. 

 

It's been a while. I've been struggling a lot these past days as I have been thrown into a wave again. It feels as if everything will continue to be bad forever, or even get worse over time. I cry often and feel alone.

I keep on having the thought of me not being able to find another partner, because I am so ugly, that no one will ever accept and love me again. I just can't get rid of that. It haunts me. 

It migth be, that my rosacea get worse, when I am in a wave, but that is just a theory. I went to do an IPL treatment on my rosacea last week, and for a couple of days it actually looked better, but now it is back and I feel discouraged. I know I should not put my hopes into stuff like this, but as desperate as one gets sometimes, I still did. And feel disappointed

I still go out and force myself to mingle, but especially in wave times it is hard! Wanted to go to the movies tonight, to not be home and brood over my own thoughts, but the movie I wanted to watch was sold out and now I feel stuck at home. That made me really angry. Didn't have that kind of emotional response until now. I punched a pillow and that helped a bit.

But still...was a new experience. Let's see if that kind of thing happens again.

Libido is not really returning, but I get kind of small rushs just randomly. 2 until now. Disappear again very quickly, but perhaps there is som ehope in that.

Therapy is also helping and revealing some emotional trap doors I have installed in my life since childhood. Even after w/d there is still the possibility of those impairing my view on life and I want to detangle those as well, accept them and move on if possible.

Gut problems are back, with gurgling, diarrhea and painful bloating. I try to accept, that it is not because I did something wrong, but because my body is on another healing round. Self-hate and believing to be responsible for all the horrible stuff happening is a major issue I have to deal with. Sometimes I feel my energy is just out the window, never to come back.

It's just sooo exhausting! During waves, everything that you felt was a good step, a good plan or a good decision are put in question again. I am better at changing the channel nowadays, but spirals always try to creep up at me. Body and mind a strained right now. I really hope I will heal and i am trying my best to get there.

@ arbor how are you doing? You said, you were dealing with some issues of your own. I hope it was nothing too bad and you have been able to resolve them quickly? I am very sorry, I am answering only now, but I really tried to keep myself busy outside of the house as much as possible.

Hope you are doing better every day. I wish you all the best!!!!!

 

Thinking of  you 

 

Sofa

 

[arbor]

Good to hear from you, @sofasogood--

W/d from Citalopram (like the others) is Hell.  I'm so sorry you're having to suffer.  Learning to change the channel as well as the work you're doing in therapy sounds really positive.  It takes incredible fortitude to make those changes, especially when our nervous systems are deranged by the drugs and their w/d.  You have a deep spirit and a deep well of resiliance.  I hope you'll never have to draw on them as much as you're having to now.  Someday, w/d will be behind you.  Have you found support in reading the success stories?  I have some of their words printed and posted on my refrigerator.

Recovery Success Stories

 

I understand the distress we feel when we're not feeling attractive.  I do believe though, that a good partner is someone who sees deeper.  That person will see you dispite the rosacea.  You are an exceptional person.  The people in your life are lucky.

Thank you for your well wishes.  They really help!

Big hugs to you (((((((((((((Sofa)))))))))))))

Arbor

[sofasogood]

Hey @arbor

 

16 minutes ago, arbor said:

Thank you for your well wishes.  They really help!

Then I will reinforce my wishes ten fold

 

3 minutes ago, arbor said:

I understand the distress we feel when we're not feeling attractive.  I do believe though, that a good partner is someone who sees deeper.  That person will see you dispite the rosacea. 

My secret wish is just that. But my mind keeps on screwing with me, that this is not an option for me. Because I am especially ugly. Even when I read this, a part of me just starts laughing, because it just sounds insane.

I recently understood my dilemma. If I accept my condition and just don't obsess on it that much anymore, I would actually be able to focus more on what I WANT to DO in my life and get some kind of relaxation going. But since I learned since childhood, that you have to give it 

your all, always and a 150 percent in everything you do (if not your not worthy of love), I actually fear the not obsessing part, because it feels like a stand still. And being in a stand still, you don't give enough. And those two thoughts cancel each other out. Smart isn't it. 

And since I can't accept myself,

in that moment I cannot not believe someone would accept me even with my flaws.

 

12 minutes ago, arbor said:

Have you found support in reading the success stories?

Yes I really have. Some of them are so good to read and offer a lot of help as well. The most helpful was this one:

 

1. Stay as positive as you possibly can

If you let yourself always see the bad things, then eventually this is all you will see.

The harder the symptoms, the more healing is taking place. Make it a positive thing.

2. Acceptance

If you accept, the symptoms no longer have the power over you that they once had. They’re still there, but just acknowledge them and move on. There’s nothing you can do about them, so just let them happen. It just means more healing.

3. Time

There are no shortcuts, no magic pills. Be patient and wait for your brain and CNS to heal. You have to go through it.

Each day you go through is one day closer to your ultimate healing so don’t give up.

4. Distract

Find something that you can use to distract yourself and make the time go by. The more you’re able to distract yourself, the more healing takes place without you worrying about it.

• Long walks
• Painting
• Board games

5. Keep track of the good days

Write notes to yourself reminding yourself that you can feel good again. Go back on the hard days.

 

 

I modified and shortened it a bit. But it is a wonderful idea to print it and put it somewhere I can always read it. Thank you for that idea!

 

Have a wonderful day and may it be blessed with happy feelings.

 

Thoughts to you!

 

sofa

 

[arbor]

Thank you for this post @sofasogood--I read it just as I was nestling into a dark circle of negative thoughts.  I've changed my focus to the radient colors of the autumn trees.  Itwillgetbetteritwillgetbetter🙏

❤️to you,

Arbor

[sofasogood]

Hello hello.

 

It's been a while since my last post. I had a lot on my plate and was not able to write much during that time.

 

December was a pretty dark month for me with lots of negative thinking and just the overall thought, that it just will not end. I had these moments, when I cried and laughed almost at the same time. I felt relieved afterwards, but that didn't last long. So I figured I needed a change of scenery and went to be with my parents for two weeks up until after Christmas. I felt safer there and my father took long walks with me and I am very grateful he listened to me repeat the same problems over and over again, assuring me, that I was experiencing withdrawal and that the only thing for me to remember, was to give myself time to heal.

 

At the time my fear of rosacea was immense although my IBS started to get better. But then I started getting pins and needles. First in my left big toe. That didn't go away for a week at least. Then after Christmas, when I went to visit friends on Italy to spend New Year's at their place, my left heal started to tingle and get numb sometimes. I feared that my nerve endings were dying because of all kinds of horrible things: Diabetes, MS, cancer, you name it. Without the constant help of my wonderful friends, this would have driven me completely nuts. Even when we drove home and the soles of my feet started burning, they helped me stay calm and collected. So I gave it some time and yoga practice and started visiting my chiropractor again. I also went to the doctor's but since the symptoms have largely gone away and are coming back mostly, when I am sedentary for longer periods, the physician said, that probably I seem to have pinched the nerve rather than something else.

 

Bloodwork is not perfect but shows no immediate signs of risk so far. So I am plowing on. Last week I had a few days of window and enjoyed that immensely. It is still mind-boggling to me, that there can be periods in my life, where I don't worry, obsess or try to explain everything in my life. Just being able to enjoy without anything else is unbelievable. No need to talk about problems, no deep rooted sadness, just a normal view of things. That is so special! Did some projects I wanted to do for a long time during that period, because I felt like I had enough energy at last. Well, I fell back into the well afterwards, but I notice, that I seem to bounce back faster from the most severe thoughts and symptoms now. Rosacea still there, still eating carnivore and I am still afraid of it, because of the mainstream opinion, that you have to eat veggies and fiber to be healthy.

 

But not having bloating and stomach pain seems to be plus so I will try to continue. Dry skin and sleep problems persist as well as tinnitus. Had one wisdom tooth removed with severe complications which left me with two weeks of Ibuprofen, before they could resolve the issue. Window ended after that, so perhaps there is side effects. I know now, that keeping to myself for too long agrevates my symptoms too, so I try to be around positive people as much as I can. It costs so much energy to get myself to go outside, sometimes I don't know where to take it from. But I will keep on going. 

 

@arbor how are you doing? Hope you are well and have had some nice holidays over Christmas and New Year's?

 

To all people in withdrawal: I wish you to have the most speedy recovery you can have!!!! Keep going!

 

Much lovely

 

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by ChessieCat
added paragraph spacing for easier reading

[arbor]

Dear @sofasogoodIt's so good to hear from you and to get an update on how you're doing.   I had been thinking of you, hoping that the symptoms weren't troubling you.  It does seem that few people escape the terrible effects of AD w/d.  Your good will and resolute spirit touch me very much and help me as I too navigate the waves.  They have been challenging recently, so I wasn't able to respond here as immediately as I would've liked.  

On 1/30/2022 at 1:26 PM, sofasogood said:

It is still mind-boggling to me, that there can be periods in my life, where I don't worry, obsess or try to explain everything in my life. Just being able to enjoy without anything else is unbelievable. No need to talk about problems, no deep rooted sadness, just a normal view of things.

This is truly a positive sign, Sofa.   It tells me you will eventually recover and be able to reclaim your natural, beautiful nature.

 

On 1/30/2022 at 1:26 PM, sofasogood said:

not having bloating and stomach pain seems to be plus

This will certainly help your healing.

On 1/30/2022 at 1:26 PM, sofasogood said:

It costs so much energy to get myself to go outside, sometimes I don't know where to take it from. But I will keep on going. 

I can relate to what you're saying.  I'm glad you have good people in your life.  They are one of the best medicines--wish I'd turned more to them and less to doctors in the past!

 

If it's useful information, I'll share that my face flushing with mild rosacea has stopped, though during stress, my face still flushes and then clears pretty quickly.  I have a friend who's had rosacea for a longer time, but nobody but she, herself, sees it as unattractive.  A warm looking person can seem inviting--

 

Thank you for your well wishes and encouragements.  They go a long way!

Arbor🙏💗🌞

 

 

 

 

[sofasogood]

Hello aand good day.

 

@arbor

 

On 2/1/2022 at 6:11 PM, arbor said:

f it's useful information, I'll share that my face flushing with mild rosacea has stopped, though during stress, my face still flushes and then clears pretty quickly.  I have a friend who's had rosacea for a longer time, but nobody but she, herself, sees it as unattractive.  A warm looking person can seem inviting--

That helped a lot actually. I know I am overreacting often, but it is very hard to judge these things with a twisted sense of reality. I still feel, I don't look normal and this prevents me from being more open towards other people. I also have no sex drive at all..seems that PSSD is still in effect. This makes it sooo hard to think about having a relationship at all!

 

I recently got my wisdom teeth removed, which resulted in two operation almost 2 hours long each and in a reinfection after 4 weeks. I now have taken antibiotics for 4 days and somehow I feel worse than before. It could also be the thiamin, that I have been taking for about a week and a half, as I heard, if you have too much of b-vitamins, this makes you over agitated. I feel like somebody plugged an additional power supply into me. Strangely overconcious, if that makes sense.

I will stop the thiamin for a bit and see, if that makes it better. I even can't watch tv right now, because moving cameras make me dizzy. It's a bit much I feel, after the infection and all the trouble with my teeth. I know, that it is all related to withdrawal, but still, it always seems to take you by suprise.

 

I am happy for you @arbor, that the rosacea has stopped and another part of healing seems to have taken place. I recently heard about the Kill Bind Sweat protocol, which removes toxic molds and biofilms from your body. I will have a look at this and perhaps try it sometime. Just gotta get my head right first again.

In general I feel, that I bounce back from a wave much quicker now. The hits themselves have not lost so much severity, but sometimes I am able to tell myself, that this is NOT my normal state of mind, but that there is something much nicer waiting on the other side of the wave. crying helps and accepting, that it will pass does too. You just have to keep telling you this, like a mantra, over and over again.

 

To everyone else, who might be reading here.

I think its getting a bit better for me, so it will surely improve for you as well. Keep going, it is worth the effort, even if in the beginning, you might not even know why.

 

Love to everyone

 

sofa

[arbor]

Dear @sofasogood,  You have certainly been going through a lot recently.  The dental procedures must have been challenging, and now the temporary, but very difficult effects on your recovering nervous system.  Perhaps you have followed other members' experiences of being exposed to antibiotics as well as anesthetics.  You can type into your browser, antibiotics: survivingantidepressants.org (same for anesthetics) which will bring up several links.   It sounds as if the ordeal may have triggered akathisia.  

3 hours ago, sofasogood said:

I feel like somebody plugged an additional power supply into me. Strangely overconcious,

I hope this passes soon for you.  

 

3 hours ago, sofasogood said:

I even can't watch tv right now, because moving cameras make me dizzy. It's a bit much I feel, after the infection and all the trouble with my teeth. I know, that it is all related to withdrawal, but still, it always seems to take you by suprise.

Yes--the hits take me by surprise everytime, too...

 

By the way, there are studies associating rosacea with autoimmune issues.  I've had a lot of autoimmune issues while on and now off the AD's.  There are studies also associating antidepressant drugs with autoimune problems.  I can see that some of my autoimmune concerns are improving the longer I've been off the drugs.  I admire your strength, endurance, and good will as you continue to heal, Sofa.  I trust that good relationships will be a part of your future.  (I can share the studies if you'd like.  I found them on pubmed.)

3 hours ago, sofasogood said:

In general I feel, that I bounce back from a wave much quicker now. The hits themselves have not lost so much severity, but sometimes I am able to tell myself, that this is NOT my normal state of mind, but that there is something much nicer waiting on the other side of the wave. crying helps and accepting, that it will pass does too. You just have to keep telling you this, like a mantra, over and over again.

 

Thank you for this.

 

3 hours ago, sofasogood said:

To everyone else, who might be reading here.

I think its getting a bit better for me, so it will surely improve for you as well. Keep going, it is worth the effort, even if in the beginning, you might not even know why.

And for this!

 

I know that you know best what's best for your body.  Because our bodies are currently working so hard to rid us of the drugs themselves, I hesitate to introduce other forms of cleanses.  Do you find the supplements recommended here useful?  How is your gut doing after the dental issues?  Personally, I think keeping the gut regular is very important.  I often take yogurt and/or sauerkraut.  Other people do other things.  Please forgive me if I'm making too many suggestions.  Probably the most valuable medicine is time, and it so happens, we share this time--and all it's unknowns and challenges--together.  Thank you for your update.  I know someday you'll be free of withdrawal. 💜

Arbor

[sofasogood]

Hello @arbor.

It is so good to hear from you.

17 minutes ago, arbor said:

It sounds as if the ordeal may have triggered akathisia.  

I figured something like that. I have to see how it develops. It comes and goes.

 

26 minutes ago, arbor said:

How is your gut doing after the dental issues?

I am anxious about the side effects of the antibiotics and want the infection to go away as clean as possible, as not to have a lingering inflamation, that could cause more harm.

28 minutes ago, arbor said:

By the way, there are studies associating rosacea with autoimmune issues.  I've had a lot of autoimmune issues while on and now off the AD's.  There are studies also associating antidepressant drugs with autoimune problems.  I can see that some of my autoimmune concerns are improving the longer I've been off the drugs. 

❤️Thank you sooooo much for this comment. My hope is just that. The more time I let pass my body will be able to recover from all that sh** that has happened to it.

29 minutes ago, arbor said:

Do you find the supplements recommended here useful? 

 I always took the magnesium. Haven't done the fish oil in a while, I don't even know why I stopped it. Sauerkraut and yogurt don't work for me, because I have histamine intolerance. At least I had... I haven't checked any of these since I started carnivore. Just want to give my body time to heal and hopefully get rid of these intolerances. I take vitamin C and D as well.

 

20 minutes ago, arbor said:

know that you know best what's best for your body.  Because our bodies are currently working so hard to rid us of the drugs themselves, I hesitate to introduce other forms of cleanses. 

I know what you mean. It might backfire big time!

When I did my research on gut health I stumbled upon a lot of functional medicine parctitioners, saying, that even with the right diet, often people don't recover, because there is bugs hidden in the flora. Often those, which have biofilm, a hide mimicking gut tissue, so the immune system cannot get rid of them. Most commonly known ones seem to be viruses like epstein barr or compounds that induce lyme. But heavy metals and other bad stuff as well. I actually want to do a hair analysis to get my heavy metals checked, but it is so expensive and I have to save up for stuff like this. My health journey has eaten up most of my finacials last year...sigh. But the doctors mentioned, that histamine intolerance and mcas have shown strong relation to having gut bugs and toxicity. So I want to give this a go in the future.

 

How are you doing at the moment? Did you have more contact with other people? I long more and more for it, since I realized, that I feel so much better after meeting someone. But getting my ass out the door has not become ANY easier at all. Even if I know, that it is so good for me.

 

Thank you for always answering me. I am very grateful to be able to write with you.

I send you my appreciation!

 

Best 

 

sofa

[arbor]

Hi @sofasogood--

 

Thank you for the information about gut health.  Wheeoo, it's so complicated--like everything to do with our health.  

Thank you, too, for asking about my recovery.  I'm mostly in a wave, it seems, though there are patches of time where I feel some relief.  Spending time with certain people can be uplifting.  Unfortunately, I find most of contemporary life around me too stressful.  I long to be more resilient.  Going out takes discipline.  I walk everyday, and that's invigorating, but grocery shopping is stressful if I'm not careful to be extra patient, focused, calm.  I cry a lot--like many of us.  When I see babies or little children or pets, I have to restrain my tears.  Watching the News, I just plain cry.  I'm many months into withdrawal, but I think my circumstances on the drugs (and perhaps my genetic predisposition) may make my recovery time longer than what others like you will have to endure.  I want all of us to recover right now--

 

Getting tests could be helpful, Sofa.  They have been for me.  Especially, I don't want to over-supplement if I don't need something.  

Sending you healing wishes🙏

Arbor

[arbor]

Happy New Year's @sofasogood  How is your recovery doing these days?

Best wishes to you,

Arbor

[sofasogood]

Hello @arbor.

Happy yew year to you as well.

I am currently not so good. I fell back into a waves pattern about a month ago.  First I started  a new job. I really like it, but it is much faster than the old one and adjusting to it is still in progress. For someone in a normal state that is already something, but for people like us it is much harder. I felt exhausted all the time and needed to go to bed at 9 to have enough sleep. But I at least slept decently. Then it all started with with me being introduced to a doctor, that finally made some sense of lots of my symptoms. He found out I had severe leaky gut, a formaldehyde poisoning and zinc deficiency. Together with all my intolerances, that made a hell of a combination. He is trying to fix my gut now with several supplements like L-glutamine and some probiotics. After about a month and a half of starting the regiment, I met my now girlfriend ( I am incredibly happy with her) This led to a period of time with less sleep and lots more activity! I discovered, that my PSSD actually had become better, although I still often feel kind of detached during the act. But shortly after my sleep became bad and interrupted again. I wake up at least 3 to 4 times a night and that comes with a new set of problems now. There is forgetfulness and the loss of the right wording. I find it hard to concentrate and focus during the day. Conversations are especially hard in a professional environment. It is not like this all the time, but it is a scary feeling. I tried to use Melatonin to go to sleep, but it seems the doctor didn't know too much about it, because he prescribed me a dose of 10mg, which made me feel drowsy and I didn't really wake up the day after. So I read the thread about Melatonin here on the forum and I am now going to consult the doc about it again. I am 2 years out after my last dose of Citalopram and the summer was actually quite ok... but now I am back and it feels awful. During the winter holidays I tried screaming in the car and it seems to help. Been doing it now several times. I am so angry and tired about new stuff just appearing and the old stuff not being gone yet. Don't get me wrong, I am able to cope with the situations much better now and I have great friends, that help me along the way. But I am so sick of it, because you never now, when you are going to trigger another wave. Could it be the supplements that started this? A lot of people seem to have reactions on them. When the brain starts doing stuff again and you cannot explain it scares the crap out of me. My.doctor says it has to do with my gut trying to repair itself too. And I actually want to trust this doctor for once because he made lots of connections and had some understanding of WD as well. Perhaps I need to discuss this with him further. It is really hard to work my job, when I am having such a slow brain. I am in the creative field and it is like tying to wade through honey to get where you need to go.

Sleep problems don't help either I guess. How have you been doing?

Last time you told me, that spending time outside was still stressful, when too many peoe wäre around. Has that lifted a bit? Do you still walk every day? I cry still very often. Music and films especially. Can't hold it in. Resilience is something that takes soo much time. And I myself don't give myself enough credit for what I am doing often enough. I hope you are better and thank you for asking about my health.

 

I wish everyone a quick healing journey.

 

Sofa

[arbor]

Dear Sofa,

It's good to hear from you.  I truly can commiserate with how upsetting these persistent symptoms are.  My experience and what I read on this site testify to similar patterns that you're describing.  When waves return, I wrack my brain trying to figure out how I brought it about.  Much of the time I can't determine the causes and can only once again summon patience and forbearance to ride them out as gently as I can.  About the lack of sleep, however, I can be clear that it causes in me just as you describe:

7 hours ago, sofasogood said:

There is forgetfulness and the loss of the right wording. I find it hard to concentrate and focus during the day. Conversations are especially hard in a professional environment. It is not like this all the time, but it is a scary feeling.

TBH, I had become very frightened by this.  It effected my work.  I want you to be reassured to know that for right now, these problems have passed, and short term memory issues also have improved.  What reassures me about this, is that it shows that these problems are fluid--unlike typical neurological disorders which (in my understanding) generally just deteriorate.  I consider Alto a shining example of someone who has gotten well.  

 

Unfortunately, you're 2 years out and I'm 4.  These are not numbers I could ever have imagined before w/d.  I can relate to your frustration.  Not only is my brain currently predisposed to anger by the chemical trauma of w/d, but the lack of ethics in the medical world is enraging to me.  I've dedicated myself to calming this anger because calmness helps me sleep.  And calm is among the feelings--such as peacefulness and empathy--that I wish to reclaim.  

 

What good news that you've found a doctor who can be helpful, especially with the leaky gut issues.  They can be so tricky.  Also, I'm happy for you, Sofa, to have found a girl friend you can be close to.  W/d can be isolating, but connection is a gift, especially for healing--

 

Thank you for asking about my situation.  I still walk daily and don't notice being bothered by crowds.  I see certain strangers also walking every day, so by now, we nod and smile.  I particularly enjoy their dogs.  I still cry easily, so those closest to me often censor certain aspects of the media.  I'm very lucky for all kindness that comes my way.  I wish I were hardier, but am grateful for the improvements that continue to develop

8 hours ago, sofasogood said:

Resilience is something that takes soo much time. And I myself don't give myself enough credit for what I am doing often enough.

Isn't this the truth!  Allow me to join you in giving you a ton of credit for all that you are doing and all that you've gone through, dear Sofa!!!

Yours,

Arbor

 

PS--I wish I wrote in German as well as you do in English--

[sofasogood]

Hello @arbor.

 

First of all I want to say, that after reading your introduction and some of your posts again, I have to say: What you've accomplished is impressive! You've come such a long way! 

16 hours ago, arbor said:

I particularly enjoy their dogs.

I love dogs. They make me smile and also I can be a little child again, playing with them. They give love and comfort without question if you treat them equally.

 

16 hours ago, arbor said:

On 1/24/2023 at 2:36 PM, sofasogood said:

this all the time, but it is a scary feeling.

TBH, I had become very frightened by this.  It effected my work.  I want you to be reassured to know that for right now, these problems have passed, and short term memory issues also have improved.  What reassures me about this, is that it shows that these problems are fluid--unlike typical neurological disorders which (in my understanding) generally just deteriorate.  I consider Alto a shining example of someone who has gotten well.

Thank you soo much. I know, that a lot of people here cope with those kind of reactions, but it is so comforting to hear you say, that you have gone through this as well and gotten better. I always was someone that could rely on a quick mind and a very efficient vocabulary. My gf said to me recently, that life gives us clues throughout our journey.and by thinking about that I realized, that I'd often rather should listen more and perhaps talk a little less. Words are and were my space. But I am generally getting better at keeping calm.

My day today is quite challenging again. The night was pretty bad with me waking up every hour or so. I still feel quite awake in the mornings, but after that, I can definitely feel the lack of sleep. Just trying to push through. 

16 hours ago, arbor said:

Much of the time I can't determine the causes and can only once again summon patience and forbearance to ride them out as gently as I can. 

I really try to keep my calm, but I also can feel your anger, because it bursts up inside of me so often. Most of the time I don't even recognize it as such. I only later realize, that it has been building up inside and I need to deal with it. Well at least I recognise it now. I noticed that if I become angry or unsteady, I get really cold real fast. This is a good indicator that something is wrong.

 

I will have to be patient as always. And since there is no number to recovery, I will have to take it one step at a time. Just like my skin problems popping up again....sigh. 

 

I wish a pleasant day to everyone who is reading this.

 

Sofa

[arbor]

Thank you @sofasogood  Please know I'm thinking of you,

Arbor

[sofasogood]

Hello @arbor.

 

Last few days were hell. I accidentally read something about CIRS (chronic inflammation reaction syndrome) on Friday and since then I've been in a very bad wave. I still have memory issues and I feel like I am slowly deteriorating. I always prided myself with being good with languages, but right now I mix everything up. I even have to translate English words into German to remember a German word I just cannot grasp in that moment I am thinking about it. Today, my left eye won't focus the way it normally does. I am ridden by the feeling it will never get better again and how I will go on from here with half a brain and my creativity almost gone. My job as an artist is really hard at the moment. When the wave hits, creativity diminishes rapidly. On my way to work now and I am terrified of talking to colleagues or not being able to do work properly. I am constantly trying to get out of the spiral, but it is so hard, when you are reminded about your handicap every time you speak. This takes up soo much energy . I was so happy, that I had reached a good stable point in my life last year and now it feels like I am going backwards again. I would like to let go and just let it run its path...but I still don't know how!

 

I hope @arbor that you are having a good day! I keep you in my thoughts.

 

I hope this day gets better.

 

Lots of courage to everyone!

 

Sofa