Paquita: Tapering Paroxetine

[Paquita]

Hi there,

Been on Paroxetine 20mg since I was 17 years old (1996) for anxiety and panic attacks.

 

In the years to come, I tried a few times to quit. The advice back then was; take half the dose for a couple of weeks and then half again and then quit. Ofcourse too fast. So failed miserably.

Tried it again a few times, but failed again. Since 2019 I am tapering with special taper-strips. (got a new dr who knows a bit more about this and takes it seriously) Slowly, 1mg a month in small steps of 0.1 mg.

When I reached 15 mg, without a problem, I stabilized for a few months.
Did that again when I reached 10 mg. Started noticing some weird symptoms at around 11 mg. But manageable.The last couple of months have gotten really bad. So when I reached 5 mg, (took me more

than 18 months to get there) I went to my dr. Had panic attacks, feeling nervous and agitated all day long and night, heart pounding, fatigue, weird sensations like electricity ( I call it barbwire) vertigo, numb limbs.

Even less sleep than I already did  (always had insomnia while taking Paroxetine) and general depressive thoughts.

 

My dr. suggested to switch to Fluoxetine to cope with the withdrawal. My wish was to get off AD’s for good. But I couldn’t take it anymore and felt desperate.

He added 10 mg Fluoxetine.  I also got Lorazepam 1 mg ( I only take half) for when needed.  After I took Fluoxetine for about a month (first 2 weeks felt even worse),

I started with weaning off Paroxetine again.  A fast taper (5 mg to 0 mg in 6 weeks in 0.2 mg steps) I am now on 3 mg.

Can’t say I really feel better.. Had a few huge panic attacks and daily small ones.

My dr. said to try to up the Fluoxetine to 20 mg. I started taking 15 mg (by cutting it myself) more than a week ago, as I thought increasing with 10 mg at once was a bit fast.

Don’t know if it’s the right way either. Should I have stayed on 10 mg Fluoxetine a bit longer? Is it WD from Paroxetine and start effects from Fluoxetine at the same time that last so long. I don’t know.

Thing with anxiety thoughts is that you start to doubt everything because you feel like losing complete control.

 

I am 6.5 weeks on Fluoxetine now and desperately waiting for it to kick in. Still having major symptoms. Constantly agitated, can’t sleep at night unless I take Lorazepam, but I don’t want to do that all the time. But I had to

the last couple of weeks.

Also got Seroquel 50 mg for the night. But still haven’t taken that. Bit scared of that.
As soon as I lay down, the fear starts to escalate. Feeling like I can’t breathe, my throat is ‘shut’  tingling all over my body. And ofcourse almost no sleep makes me feel even more ‘hungover’ during the day.

Can’t really seem to do anything. And noticing I’m getting afraid to go to bed. Afraid for having another one of those nights and then days.  Feeling like ‘wil this ever end?’ It’s hard to stay positive.

Now that I have had panic attacks again I’ve noticed I’m stuck in that vicious circle again.

And the thing is I can rationalize everything, but it just doesn’t work. It’s still happening. I’m almost constantly in the ‘fight or flight-mode’ and it’s exhausting. It's hard to even stand on my feet.

I’ve read some topics in here that are helpfull.  I use the Dare app for support. My dr. wants to see me every few weeks. I have loved ones,  but still...

It’s hard to see light at the end of the tunnel. 

 

 

How do you manage to keep going?

Edited August 15, 2021 by arbor

[arbor]

Hello @Paquita,

Welcome to SA.

 

I'm so sorry you are experiencing withdrawal symptoms typical of tapering psycho-drugs.  These are hellish and frightening.  However, with time and patience people recover.  Time and patience and learning to keep ourselves calm--though very difficult--are very important.  I'm glad to read that you have strong support.  This goes a long way.  Also reaching out to other members on this site helps us to keep up our strength.

Thank you for listing your medication signature.  This will help us in responding to your questions now and in the future.

 

You've accomplished so much by tapering off Paroxetine this far.  Tapering from 5mg to 0mg in 6 weeks, however--and unfortunately--is usually too fast, and will bring on severe withdrawal symptoms.  We recommend going very slowly.  These links explains more:

why taper by 10%

Some people need to really slow down as the dose gets lower. Possibly making cuts between 1% - 5%.

The slowness of slow tapers 

Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases

 

Here is a link explaining our approach to reinstatement which recommends much smaller doses for the drug being introduced--(in your case, Prozac):

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

At this point it can be difficult to determine how much your symptoms are from withdrawal of Paroxetine and how much they may be reactions to too high a dose of Prozac.  After you have answered this post, I can share your situation with the other moderators to help you decide how you might want to continue with your dosage. 

 

To cope with your symptoms, I recommend further reading under:

symptoms and self care   

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

These links can get you started.  There is a wealth of material under both these sections that I hope you will help you deal with the awful symptoms you're experiencing.

 

We don't suggest many supplements, but 2 that many of us find helpful are magnesium and omega-3 fish oil. Here are the links for info about those. It is suggested to add one at a time, and start with a low dose to see how it affects you. 

 

Magnesium

 

Omega 3 Fish Oil

 

Melatonin 

 

This is your Introduction site where you can ask questions and connect with other members.

I'm glad you found us.  It will be a good day when you (and all of us) start feeling better.

Arbor

 

[Paquita]

Thank you for your answer! I already read a lot on this forum by now and it helps me

to see so many stories and nice people that are trying to help each other.

 

The fast taper was recommended by the apothecary who makes the tapering pills I use.

(These are one of the groups who are fighting for recognition of withdrawal symptoms in my country)

They also made and recommended the very slow taper I did before this. So I am aware of the necessity

of slow tapering. However when it became too hard my dr suggested the Prozac switch.

Because he had succesfully gotten other patients off Paroxetine this way. Except not patients

that took it so long as I have. So it was a bit of a gamble. Because most of those ppl just did it the CT way.

 

And now they don't want me to be on 2 ssri's for too long now. They do not think it is wise

now that I am on Prozac and because of the fact that even with slow tapering and stabilizing I suffer from WD.

Therefore, the fast taper decision for the last 5mg of Paroxetine, which I started after being on Prozac for 5 weeks.

I absolutely noticed things getting even worse the first 2 or 3 weeks when I started Prozac btw.

I must say that I am lucky with a doctor who does take it seriously. He tries to help me as best as he can.

We really were hoping that we could make it work this time after the failed attempts in the past.

Only now it is a bit of a search on what is the right thing to do?

 

Ofcourse the original plan was to come off Paroxetine once and for all instead of switching to another ssri.

(I try to get the thoughts of being a failure out of my head)

Even with the very slow steps (0.1 mg pills, not cheap btw, even with health care)

I got severe withdrawal when I got under 10 mg. Apparently I am very sensitive

and I guess the fact that I've been on them for 25 years and started as a teen has something to do with it also.

Also I must say I've read the tips on here saying people need to avoid stress while tapering.

Unfortunately I've also had lots of stress the past year dus to familymembers getting seriously ill.

I should have called my doctor earlier on many months ago, instead of when it was actuallly already getting

out of control, but because of all the sadness I didn't really think

about WD symptoms that were increasing now that I look back on it. A few yes, like the zaps, some weird neurological symptoms, 

dizzyness, ringing in my ears and some increased anxiety. But I accepted that as part of the deal. Even though it was not a nice

feeling ofcourse.

But I figured it was normal I felt like crap because of everything that happened and just have to deal with it.

And because I really wanted to get through this I was a little late reaching out for help. I thought; well it's not strange that I feel

horrible, look what I've been through? Until suddenly the panic attacks arrived in horrible long lasting waves and I realised

that part of it was withdrawal becoming more and more intense. That this was panic like I've never felt before.

And then I still had to convince myself to call the dr again, and that it's ok to ask for help.
Ofcourse stress and withdrawal both ads up. (Also 'that time of the month, then it's triple fun)

I also feel very burn out. Would I have known it would become a very harsh time (and still is) I wouldn't have started tapering

yet. Now that I look back I probably should have stopped the tapering and stabilizing longer while going through all that hardship.

But at that time I just didn't think of that. Busy with thinking and caring for others.

 

So this decision of a switch was a bit of an emergency thing, hoping it would help. I didn't want to go back on a higher Paroxetine dose again and

start tapering even slower as I already did. As I figured that I will have WD symptoms anyway. I never thought it would be easy.

So part of it is my own fault.

And now I'm thinking, 'please Prozac start working' as I'm fed up with feeling this way. I can't function.

Atleast it's an ssri with a long half life. Paroxetine has always given me the feeling it didn't entirely work even

for the full 24 hours. Like I had a bit of withdrawal every morning and when I took it a few hours later by mistake I felt sick all day.

And the constant fuzziness in my head.

But as much as I can rationalize it all, it still makes me desperate when I'm in the middle of it. Thinking that it will never stop.

Worrying and doubting myself and my body. Am I doing the right thing, did I make a mistake? I still feel terrible so maybe I should've

just dealt with the Paroxetine WD. Did I make things even more complicated now with adding Prozac... Is something else wrong with me

with all these strange bodily sensations and weaknesses and my heart that keeps pounding and the feeling my throat is tightening?

When I do the laundy I am already exhausted and I also developed anxiety anticipation. Afraid to go to sleep because I know

it will be a tough night. And I know that's a vicious circle.

And I know I should stop those thoughts... I know how it works.
But the WD makes my mind out of control. And that's scary. All those doubts.

 

I've read Prozac acts a bit like a stimulant so maybe I should indeed stay a little longer

on the same dose instead of being tempted to increase it? I also read Prozac can take some time.

 

So I am looking for some recognition and confirmation. I will read through the links I've not yet read.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Greatful]

 @Paquita   Welcome to SA.  I am so sorry that you are going through this. 

I would stay away form the Seroquel.  I know how tempting it is to take anything to stop the pain.  I know you can find the strength to get through this.  The moderators will come up with a plan.  Hold on tight.

 

While you wait there is a lot to read here on SA.  Learning about these drugs and how the effect your brain and nervous systems is a real eye opener.  There is a forum on Systems & Self- Care that will help you navigate through all the many  Withdrawal symptoms you can get.  There are a lot of weird one, ones you wouldn't even think were from wd.  

 

 There is a forum from  members telling their success stories getting off their physic meds.  Very encouraging.

 

Post here and reach out, we are all in the same boat and know what it feels like to go through this. 

You are not alone. ♥️

[arbor]

Dear @Paquita

Withdrawal is truly challenging. 

58 minutes ago, Paquita said:

Only now it is a bit of a search on what is the right thing to do?

 

Is this a question you would like a moderator to advise you about?  For instance, a moderator with more experience than I have about dosages can give you their suggestions.  They would want very specific details about when during the day and night you are experiencing the symptoms and how they match up, for instance, with your drug schedule.

I agree with @Grateful's opinion regarding Seroquel.  It takes a lot of strength to resist a drug that offers relief--though many people find the opposite once they start using it.

 

As Grateful recommended, here is a link to   

Success stories: Recovery from psychiatric drug withdrawal

 

They really help to keep up our morale.

My best to you,

Arbor

 

[Cheeky]

@Paquita

Im so sorry your going through this. I’ve been on this nasty drug just as long as you have and have tried so many times trying to come off. I was on 40mg and now at 20mg but when I crashed I as added 50mg of Seroquel, it did help but now I have two drugs I have to taper off and Seroquel  is just as hard. Please don’t add anything , it will just prolong  getting off. I know how difficult this is and at the lower does it gets harder. I’m not a moderator but @brassmonkeywas on this drug for 20 years and got off . He knows alot and has helped me tremendously. You are definitely not alone in this , we all here know what your going through . This forum has been my life saver . Take every minute by minute hour by hour to get through .

Keeping posting for support.

Cheeky

[Paquita]

Greatful, Arbor and Cheeky:

Thank you so much for your kind words! It is funny to realize that some kind words of support

from strangers can help a bit. Even though there are literally seas and oceans between us.

 

Arbor: If it's not too much work maybe that's a good idea.

I need to keep more of a diary of my symptoms I think.

Although I do feel now that I have to pull through this and maybe make no further changes

regarding the Prozac for now. I think the increase to 15mg added to my severe panic attacks from

the last week and a half. I don't know if going back to 10 mg maybe shakes things up a little more now.

It is hard when every person reacts differently. It's always a gamble.

 

I feel things starting to settle down for a little bit. Had a sleepless night again, but the panic

didn't take over. Trying more to accept the situation and not fighting it.

Because then it get's worse. Tips on this forum have helped me.

It's hard though. Especially in the mornings like now. I understand that a lot of people experience

more anxiety then. It feels like the panic wants to manifest itself constantly. That nervous and tingling sensation,

hot flushes along with that nauseas feeling in your stomach. I take my medication in the morning at about 10 am.

Then in the midday the agitation settles down for a bit. And then later on I'm having a throwback, feeling

very nervous again, then in the evening it settles down a bit once more. Going into the night; again getting

more agitated. I am starting to see a bit of a pattern. Except for the days when it's 24/7 panic feelings, sensations and thoughts.

The real bad ones. Overall the exhausted feeling constantly. Panic really wears you out!

I feel that temperature changes also has an effect. It can trigger anxiety when feeling hot.

And some sensations never stop, try to accept them as usual WD effects. My ears buzzing, the dizzyness etc.

I also have a kid running around (the terrible two's - age 🥴) and I feel oversensitized from the noise.

Ofcourse also feel guilt because in my opinion I can't be the happy parent a kid deserves. Too tired for walks and playgrounds now.

Even though my partner tries to convince me all the time that I shouldn't feel guilty and that when a kid is loved and protected

it's the most important thing. But still... those thoughts.

 

I haven't taken Seroquel yet and I will try to withstand it. Thank you.

My dr. did warn me about it btw. Saying only to take it when I really feel desperate. As having enough sleep deprivation

can cause delirium. And he doesn't want to add sleeping pills.
And I reached a point the last couple of weeks that I felt like wanting to call an ambulance or crisis service.

I literally got through with my partner holding my hand at night and reassuring me. That is why I got Seroquel.

He also said that when I reach 0 mg Paroxetine not to start tapering Prozac right away for WD symptoms can take a long time

even after quitting, that's for the future.

In my thought I have switched from one to another now and failed, but I also feel he's right that I need to get the thought of

going off ssri's for good out of my mind atleast for now. (even though he is very in favor of trying to get off certain medication)

First stabilize for atleast 6 months after. Maybe then try

to get back on 10 mg. and go from there. Also because too much things have happened and my stress level is too high right now.

I think he's right but that feeling of failure I find hard to deal with.

Even though if it would be about someone else I would probably say the same 'Ofcourse you didn't fail!'

But it's always hard to think that about yourself.

How do you deal with those thoughts? Go with the flow?

 

Thank you again for your support 🧡

 

[Greatful]

3 hours ago, Paquita said:

there are literally seas and oceans between us.

It is amazing how big SA is and how much love, support and compassion there is here.

The sad part is there is so much pain and suffering from the miss handling of these drugs.  It reaches all corners of the world.  The medical field really needs be better educated on the harmful affects these drugs and how they are changing our brains.  Trusting in the pharmaceutical industry is like wearing blinders.

 

3 hours ago, Paquita said:

How do you deal with those thoughts?

The wonderful world of those unrelenting thoughts.   

You may start to notice that you are having more intense thoughts in WD and this is normal, try and not get caught up in the panic when them try to take over.

I found the  biggest help in learning how to deal with thoughts is learning how to meditate.

Our thoughts are just that thoughts, they can't hurt you.  

Meditation helps you acknowledge thoughts, but not engage with them, (reason with them, fight against them ,ponder on them) once you acknowledge them you, gently go back to focusing on your breath.  This will help transfer to mindfulness during the day.  Thoughts are always running around your brain.  Again acknowledge the thought, then refocus your attention on something else.  A picture, something in nature, (describe it in the deepest detail, color, size texture etc) get up and move, or if you are in the middle of something refocus on what you are doing.  I mean really focus on it.  You can even describe it in your mind what you are doing.

 

Another way to distract yourself from your thoughts is to stop and listen for 3 different sounds you hear around you.  This activates a different part of your brain.

3 hours ago, Paquita said:

Saying only to take it when I really feel desperate. As having enough sleep deprivation

can cause delirium.

Please look into non-drugging skills to get sleep, there is so much information and members that have helpful advice on insomnia and how to deal with it.

Seroquel is a strong drug and was not created for sleep.  A lot of these drugs are given out like candy for things that they were not developed for and they are not even approved by the FDA for.  I don't want to scare you and I really understand pain and how all you want is for it to stop.  If you decide you need to take it, please research it first so you can feel you are making a  informed decision that is right for you.

 

Have you tried melatonin?  If you try it start with a low dose, more is not always better.

There is a link up at the top of your thread that Arber posted on melatonin

 

 I know this is all new and very scary, but hang in there.  We are all hear for you and will help in anyway we can.❤️

You can and will heal.♥️

[Paquita]

Hi Greatful,

I've been trying to focus on my breathing

yet sometimes that makes things even worse. Because then I'm noticing that chest tightness

and feel like I can't completely take a breath. I notice everything shakes when I'm breathing.

I have that tightness and cramps alot, expecially when I lie down. I know it's probably the vicious circle of anxiety

and the constant nervous feeling and heart palpiations from WD. Restless legs and muscle tension.

It makes it very hard to focus on something else. An at night the anxiety rises. And because of the severe lack of sleep

during the day I'm almost in a constant dizzy lethargic state.  (takes me a while to type this)

 

Quote

Another way to distract yourself from your thoughts is to stop and listen for 3 different sounds you hear around you.  This activates a different part of your brain.

Quote

 

 

 

Thank you sometimes it helps getting the edge off anxiety. Those are called grounding techniques right?

It's something I already do a bit automatically. Like trying to think of other things, the alphabet from Z to A,

how many movie titles I can come up with. Or sometimes just touching something cold.

 

I haven't tried melatonin yet. I've read there are pro's and con's to it.

I will look into it and will talk to my doctor about it. https://www.drugs.com/tips/melatonin-patient-tips

 

On occasion I take a 400mg Magnesium Citrate tablet. Don't really know if it works though.

And paracetamol for the headaches.

 

The ironic thing is, whenever there is a moment I feel a bit better, I'm starting to not trust that. Thinking

how long will this last and when will it fall to pieces again. I notice I am still fighting against those waves

and dreading it. I know it's not helping.

 

Thank you for your kind words 💚

 

 

 

 

 

 

[brassmonkey]

Hi Paquita-- Welcome to SA. I'm so glad you found us but so sorry that you needed to.

 

The "Prozac Bridge" as this is often referred to is quite popular among doctors because of prozac's longer half life and it's being "easier to taper". What they don't seem to understand is just how hard paxil is to get off of. From what I have seen here and on other forums the success rate for making the switch between these two is less that 50%. This leaves the person suffering from a CT/Fast taper of the paxil and a second ssri that is not covering up the symptoms. If the Bridge were to work it would be evident right from the beginning, without a period of intense symptoms while the body adjusts.

 

What you are feeling are the symptoms of a paxil CT that the prozac is failing to cover up. I hate to say it but this pattern will keep up for the length of time it takes a paxil CT to resolve. Which is quite a while. Adding other drugs to the mix to help relieve some of the symptoms is just adding fuel to the fire and will cause more problems.

 

First off I would avoid adding any new drugs to the mix.  I would also avoid using the lorazepam if at all possible. Even very limited PRN usage can lead to the problems with having to taper off of it, which in itself can be pretty difficult.

 

Small doses of melatonin to help with sleep could be helpful. Half a milligram should be plenty

 

Magnesium can be quite useful. It works subtly. It doesn't make you feel great, but you will notice being calmer and less "edgy". Don't take more than you are already because it can go paradoxical and can cause digestive problems.

 

The main problem is how fast you have come off the paxil. That is what is causing all the symptoms. I would suggest  reversing the Bridge to get rig of the prozac and carefully increase the paxil. Just a small updose should help relive some of the symptoms. Possibly just going up to 3.5mg will be a big help. I would aim to bridge back to 5mg and hold there. It will take several weeks for the bridge and then several weeks to several months to stabilize. Once good and stable you can start a slow and controlled taper. Until you stabilize your symptoms will be all over the place hour by hour, day by day, but they will calm down to a dull roar as you stabilize.

[Greatful]

@Paquita  Hang in there.  Looks like you have some  good advice.  Self care and patience is the next step.

 

If you want someone to see your post you @ and start to type their name it will show up in a box, click on the name and it will highlight blue like @Paquita,  This will that person that they are tagged. They will then get back to you sooner.

9 hours ago, Paquita said:

The ironic thing is, whenever there is a moment I feel a bit better, I'm starting to not trust that. Thinking

how long will this last and when will it fall to pieces again. I notice I am still fighting against those waves

and dreading it. I know it's not helping.

You and everyone else here goes through this, you are defiantly not alone.  I'm glad to  see that you are already identifying with the need for acceptance.  It is hard, but a necessary tool to learn, it will lesson some of the misery of the wave.  I am thinking the same thing today.  I feel a little better and say no,no,no when I feel things shift.  Nasty stuff these meds do to our systems 😆

 

9 hours ago, Paquita said:

Because then I'm noticing that chest tightness

and feel like I can't completely take a breath. I notice everything shakes when I'm breathing.

I have that tightness and cramps alot, expecially when I lie down

Are you laying down when you meditate?  If so, try find a more comfortable position.  Maybe a recliner?  Keep at it, even if all you can do is 5 minutes to start.    (You can do it several times a day at 5 minutes a pop)Practice and patients will win out.  You do not have to take deep breaths, just breath like you would watching tv.  There is no right way to do this,  your just learning to redirect you thoughts to your breathing.

Would a guided meditation help?

 

Please look through the links that arbor pasted on the start of your thread.  Melatonin, Magnesium and Omega 3

I take Magnesium glycinate and take it over the coarse of the day.  This is explained in the Magnesium  link.  I have noticed a benefit when I take it.  Sometimes I notice it fairly quickly and other times not so much. I really appreciate it when it does help.  Glycinate absorbs easier.  It should help with cramping too.  

 

You are doing a great job holding it together.  Once you get your plan in place, things will start to fall into place.  

Keep posting and reaching out♥️

 

[Colonial]

Welcome Paquita!

 

Very nice to "meet" you. 🙂

 

I noticed that you started to have trouble with your Paxil taper around the 10mg mark.

This is almost exactly when I started having many symptoms with mine as well!

For me it was going under 12mgs when I really needed to slow down.

Once I stabilized for 9 months and slowed down to dropping about 5% of my last dose every 2 months I did well again.

 

You: "And now they don't want me to be on 2 ssri's for too long now. They do not think it is wise

now that I am on Prozac and because of the fact that even with slow tapering and stabilizing I suffer from WD."

 

With all due respect to Your doctor, I do not think you've been on a "Slow" taper.

You've dropped from 20 to 5 mgs in a short period of time, 7 to 18 months by your signature.

 

The U.K. Psychiatrist board recommends at least 40 drops from 20 mgs to 0.

Those need to be spaced out with as much time in between them to not be symptomatic.

There is no right or wrong amount of time we need in between drops, so Your NOT a failure, Paxil is just a very difficult medication.

 

Many people coming of Paxil, once they get just so low, do better with the Brassmonkey slide method which uses much smaller drops.

Dropping 10% of Paxil at lower levels all at once is often not realistic, due to the mechanism of how Paxil works and secretes itself out of the brain.

 

Another anecdotal thing I have seen with both myself and others, is for certain people there is only a maximum amount we can drop during certain extended intervals along the way regardless of what our maximum for any one drop can be and if we rush that, we have trouble.

 

For example, there was a maximum amount I could drop any specific time, a total amount I could drop in any given 6 month period (which was about equal to my individual max times 5), and a total per year, which was even lower that the 6 month total.

 

So if my total per drop for any 1 time was 10% of my current dose my total per 6 months would be equal to 5 ten percent drops, and over a year it may be about 9 ten percent drops. I found it was not just about what is 10% of my current amount, but an over all percentage drop over time had to be respected as well.

 

It's sort of related to how much of a med you CAN take over extended periods. My bottle of Tylenol says I can take a dose every 4 hours, but NOT more than 4 dosages a day, and while I can take 4 dosages on any given day, not to do that for more than a total of 4 days a week. Over time, you cannot keep taking the same amount of Tylenol every 4 hours every day.

 

I've noticed making a WD taper plan is a bit like that, but in reverse.

Over extended periods of time a lesser cumulative amount needs to be respected or it catches up with us.

 

You noticed a bit of what may be Interdose WD even before you tried the switch.

You remarked about symptoms in the few hours before taking your dose.

I had that as well when I switched from the Paxil extended release pill to the instant release liquid.

 

If I took it at night, I had a miserable time in the early evening before it was time to take it again.

When I switched to taking it during the morning hours to test, I started having horrible nightmares and being woken up early.

Once I followed the doctors recommendation of taking half my dose every 12 hours, the symptoms resolved in 3 days.

 

Now that your in a full blown WD episode, you may want to think about doing that "split dosing".

You take half of your daily Paxil dose every 12 hours.

Many people who suffer for months report improvement after doing this.

 

You also reported having negative issues very soon after starting the Prozac.

This could be either an Adverse reaction to the drug itself, or an adverse reaction to the combination of being on both meds while in WD.

You are also taking a significant dose of  Prozac, 15 mgs of that med alone will interact with about 75% of your receptors.

 

Your doctor suggested the bridge AFTER already being in difficulty.

This complicates knowing if You would have done better attempting the bridge before you were in significant Paxil WD.

 

There seems to be this belief that switching out one med for another will magically cure or prevent any WD from the first medication.

The Prozac bridge, if done BEFORE someone is in distress and from a med that is not so notorious for problems like Paxil may have a higher success rate.

Once someone is already in significant distress and doctors begin adding in tranquilizers and sleep aid, it can become more problematic.

 

While I don't have the amount of case history and studying as other members, I have to concur with Brassmonkey that Your best bet may very well be to abort this attempt before You drop any more Paxil out of Your brain. Paxil seems to be a harder medication to "switch out".

 

That you had negative symptoms adding the Prozac right from the beginning is a red flag.

The good news is because You still have, from what I see, 3mgs in your system, you did not commit a cold turkey and all the problems that can bring.

 

Is it possible to add actual dates, if You remember them to the drug history?

It will help in understanding a bit more what is happening, for example:

 

2019 - Start taper Paroxetine

2021 June - tapered till 5 mg.

 

Can you fill in what month the taper started?

That is a taper somewhere between  7 and 18 months and to be honest?

Even if you started the taper in January and dropped from 20 to 5 mgs in 18 months, for Paxil that is fast.

If you dropped that in only a year June 2020 to July 2021, that is problematic.

 

I think Your in a good position to stablize if you increase the Paxil.

If You continue to drop it, no about of Prozac is going to help.

Your already taking enough to lock down 3/4th of your receptors so taking more of that, I d not think will assist you.

 

2021 July - added Fluoxetine 10 mg

 

Again, if you can add dates, it will be more helpful.

Knowing whether you have been on this for 3 weeks as opposed to almost 7 will give a better idea as to what to expect if you decide to stop taking it.

Which I think is the better plan, but it's nice to know what you are looking at symptom wise.

 

I'm glad you've had a chance to read many of the helpful forums!

There's so much great information here.

Welcome aboard!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cheeky]

Hey @Paquita,

I hope your having more confidence with what’s happening to you . @brassmonkey and @Colonial have given you great advise. 
I know how overwhelming this all is but we’re  all here for you. Hugs 🫂 

[Paquita]

@brassmonkey  @Greatful @Colonial

 

Thank you very much for your input! It has given me already more insight.

I have a lot to think about....

I started tapering more than 18 months ago. Comparing it to the old and classic ='taper in 4 weeks'= method

it is a lot slower 😉

I will look back at the tapering orders to give more

of a precise date. Because of all kinds of tragic familiy circumstances, it all has been kind of a blur.

That is also the reason why the WD symptoms have been kind of dismissed by myself and why

I was way too late to ask for help.

 

I will get back to it all.

 

Weird thing is, the last day and a half the anxiety has stabilized a bit. Yes, I'm still very exhausted

and have WD symptoms, but the 24/7 anxiety and heart palpitations have been more at ease.

I've slept about 4 to 5 hours the last 2 nights instead of the 1 or 2 hours. Makes a huge difference.

Hadn't had that in quite some time.

Don't know if the Prozac maybe is finally giving some relief or if this is a window. Or both.

 

Kinda also makes me fear when it will go worse again. But I try hard to not let those negative thoughts take me over.

 

@Cheeky  Hugs to you too!

[92sharks]

@PaquitaI am so, so sorry for the terrible time you are having. I can feel so many of the things you describe as things I've experienced or are experiencing in trying to get completely off of Effexor. You are doing a terrific job, but I can tell how frightened and how bad you feel at times. I wanted to include my voice in those sending love and support. You are being given excellent advice on SA. The things I wanted to say from my own experience are from taking Prozac for a very short time many years ago, it really agitated me so it didn't surprise me that you have had panic feelings and panic attacks from it. The other thing is I understand that you have had many stressful family situations over the last few months. I'm so sorry. I too, have had some pretty heavy family issues over the last year and 1/2 that made me forget I was tapering and that some of the emotional and psychological issues I was experiencing could be from w/d. In hindsight, I think I was having w/d symptoms, but I continued to taper, thinking the tapering wasn't effecting me at all. It wasn't until a couple of weeks ago when I began having physical w/d symptoms (vertigo, h/a, head fullness) that I realized I had probably been having w/d symptoms for many weeks/months. Since they were "only" emotional/psychological ones, I thought it was just stress from all of the family issues. I still don't quite know the truth, but I sure as heck am going to hold where I am right now. The vertigo has cleared. I am still  experiencing crippling anxiety for several hours a day, but I think much of that has to do with responsibilities at home. It sound like you still have lots of responsibilities at home, especially having a little one. It sounds like your partner is wonderful. You are so, so lucky.  Be sure and tell them so. The things I am trying to so to help diminish the anxiety: I started meditating. It is ridiculous....I can concentrate only for one breath and my mind wanders...another breath and my mind wanders. It is a CONSTANT refocusing. I am trying to meditate 5-10 min a day in order to learn how and to start the habit. It is really ugly, it is pretty comical actually, but the practice of doing it and trying it is helping. I read your experience about focusing on your breath. I agree with trying to sit up. And if you're sensing the tightness, you're not focusing on your breathing, so try to refocus, just on the breath moving in and moving out. 🥴 Good luck. I also have started going to acupuncture-only twice so far. I walk on the treadmill 15 min & stationary bike 5 min 3xweek. But I have to FORCE myself to do it, but I always feel better after I sweat. If I can only get on there and walk slowly, that is ok. I have tried to start a 10 min yoga Apple video. I can only do a little of it, but it's the trying it that is hard, but that is important. Try writing down the things you DO get done in a day. With a 2 year old it is hard to feel like you accomplished anything. But changing a diaper or putting down food is an accomplishment. I just want you to know all that you are feeling is understood by so many of us. You are not alone. I know you hope every day you will feel better. You can get through this. Sending much love and support. ❤️ 

[92sharks]

@PaquitaOne other thing I have been doing several times a day is breathing that stimulates the vagus nerve. I have had VERY good luck with using it for anxiety. You can watch a youtube video; that's how I learned. Take a breath in counting to 5, hold your breath for 2 seconds, then exhale to a count of 8. Do this three times. I feel it is a safe practice and I am amazed that it helps. The anxiety does return often, but it is something easy to do that takes no energy or effort to try as often as you wish.  

[Paquita]

On 8/20/2021 at 1:47 AM, 92sharks said:

I too, have had some pretty heavy family issues over the last year and 1/2 that made me forget I was tapering and that some of the emotional and psychological issues I was experiencing could be from w/d. In hindsight, I think I was having w/d symptoms, but I continued to taper, thinking the tapering wasn't effecting me at all. It wasn't until a couple of weeks ago when I began having physical w/d symptoms (vertigo, h/a, head fullness) that I realized I had probably been having w/d symptoms for many weeks/months.

@92sharks (Hi!) Yes, that is exactly how I have felt! It is intertwining with each other

(if I say that correctly, English is not my native language)

And therefore it was hard to know what is what. Certain circumstances are enough to give you a burnout even without being on a tapering journey.

And the stress from all that contributes to more WD symptoms. I see in your medicine history you've had some really tough times. 💙

 

Also the bad sleep is a very big part of it.

Whenever I have a night of about an hour or 2, during the day the electric surges are almost constant and I feel very lethargic.

 

On 8/20/2021 at 1:47 AM, 92sharks said:

I walk on the treadmill 15 min & stationary bike 5 min 3xweek. But I have to FORCE myself to do it

 

I recognize a lot from your experiences. Also with the breathing. I am trying to practice like you said.

I do not wish this for anyone ofcourse, but it is reassuring there are many similarities and the feeling that you are not alone.

Exercise is hard. I just went for a little walk, sometimes it helps, sometimes it adds to the agitation. Like everything

is oversensitized. Literally walking feeling faint and with shaky legs. And then afterwards feeling exhausted.

And some days even sounds and lights are too much.

I know I should think: But I did it! Trying to get those negative thoughts out of my head.

 

The thing is, I literally can't stop tapering the paroxetine right now. 😬 I only have the pills from the tapering strips.

I can't decide for myself to stop for a while. I will have to go to my doctor. He will have to make a new plan, fill

out forms and order it at the pharmacy, who will then make it and delivers it.

And that can take up to a week and a half. So the only thing I can do now is go on. (I'm on 2.2 mg now)

It's all about safety regulations.

Even though I would've done things differently if I knew in advance. And I really appreciate all the thinking of others that are trying to help

me on this forum.

Because things have settled down a bit regarding the anxiety and I'm having a bit of a window, my doctor's advice is try the prozac a little longer.

And see what happens the next two weeks. I've decided to agree to that for now.

 

I haven't touched the Seroquel yet and I'm not planning to either. The last 4 days and nights I haven't taken any Lorazepam.

Some nights have been rough but not as rough as the weeks before. And last night I've slept a few hours in a row and it didn't take me so long

as usual to fall asleep. Less agitation about it. I've sat on the couch a few times just trying to stay calm and not overthink it too much.

Thinking about wanting to sleep gives a lot of pressure. It is hard to let that go. But I know worrying about it makes it worse.

Been listening to the Dare app. It also has breathing exercises and some calming words.

 

Hope you have a bit on an ok day

 

 

 

 

 

[Greatful]

@Paquita  Hi, is see you are hanging in there☺️

4 hours ago, Paquita said:

Exercise is hard. I just went for a little walk, sometimes it helps, sometimes it adds to the agitation. Like everything

is over sensitized. Literally walking feeling faint and with shaky legs. And then afterwards feeling exhausted.

And some days even sounds and lights are too much.

That is a weird feeling when your legs feel weak and shaky.  I try to walk 6 days a week.  My upper arms muscles are  weak a lot. 

I go through waves of being sensitive to sounds.  Going to stores can be to stimulating.  It has gotten a little better.  A slow process.🤥  But our brains are healing slowly everyday❤️

4 hours ago, Paquita said:

things have settled down a bit regarding the anxiety and I'm having a bit of a window, 

This is good to hear...... a bit of a window.  They sure are welcomed☺️

 

4 hours ago, Paquita said:

it is reassuring there are many similarities and the feeling that you are not alone.

Yes it is very reassuring we are not alone.  This journey is hard and scary enough,  I couldn't imagine trying to get through this without the support and encouragement from everyone here on SA.❤️

[Paquita]

Thank you  @Greatful

 

Going to stores can be indeed challenging. Before I took meds I suffered from agoraphobia.

And now because the anxiety is triggered again, it is back.

I'm again scared again of going outside or to public places.

Those WD symptoms really suck. Feel like I have to start all over again.

[Cheeky]

Hey Papuota,

Just wanted to say hi and I’ve noticed you have alot  of good advice here . I have a 9 and 18 year old and I find it hard  but having a toddler and going through this is enormous. This is the most awful thing we will ever have to go through . How is your support system ?

 

 

[Greatful]

@Paquita  Hi how are you doing?

[Paquita]

Hi @Cheeky  and @Greatful

 

Been having a few off days again.

Sleeping bad, feeling depressed, thinking about the future, and more anxious.

My support system is good, I'm lucky.

 

[Cheeky]

1 hour ago, Paquita said:

Hi @Cheeky  and @Greatful

 

Been having a few off days again.

Sleeping bad, feeling depressed, thinking about the future, and more anxious.

My support system is good, I'm lucky.

 

Im

hapoy you have support, don’t  think of the future , just get through the day . If I think of the future it depresses me more ( even though I do everyday) your going to make it hun 🌈 

[Paquita]

Feeling of a tight chest and shortness of breath don't go away for the last couple of days.
When I try to do something I get out of breath, like I ran a marathon. Need to sit down again, really dizzy and electric sensations.

Like everything is overstimulating to me. Even walking up the stairs.

The chest and throat tightness starting to make me feel scared, which I know will make it even worse. 🙄

But it is so hard not to pay attention to something that is there all the time, even in rest.

 

 

[Bea81]

@Paquita, I wanted to come on your own thread since I saw your reply on mine. I can so well relate to what you are describing here. It feels like everything is a strain on both body and mind, right? But it is not dangerous! And it will all heal. I know you know this already but wanted to say it anyway. I am here when you want to talk. We can and will beat this! 💙

[Greatful]

@Paquita  I know these are scary sensations but that is all they are is sensations in the body like anxiety.  It is crazy how the wd symptoms will move around to different things.  I want to share with you a story that I saw on SA,  What is happening in your brain  It is by a women who recovered from benzos.  Read it I think you will find some comfort in it  Let me know what you think.

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/10914-what-is-happening-in-your-brain/

 

2 hours ago, Paquita said:

Need to sit down again, really dizzy and electric sensations.

Is the   electricity running through your body or brain,  I get it both ways.  When I get really dizzy it feels like my brain is shorting out. One big buzzing and tingling blob.

 

Hang in there, give yourself a big hug and say you are strong  and say I am doing a great job getting through each day..❤️

[Paquita]

@Bea81

Thank you, it can get so scary sometimes! Start to doubt everything.

 

@Greatful I also have those electric surges in my head and body. And the dizzyness is even when I sit still.

Thank you for that link, I will read it. 

 

💜

[Bea81]

Are you ok, @Paquita?

[Paquita]

Hi @Bea81

 

Thanks for asking.

The last week I've been extremely tired. I just don't have any energy.

I think I'm oversensitized or something? Light, sounds.. Electric sensations and anxious all the time and chest tightness.

I have to lie down every day now. Still sleep bad though. It's hard for me to concentrate so I have not been very

active online.

How are you?

[Greatful]

@Paquita

On 9/11/2021 at 1:07 PM, Paquita said:

I think I'm oversensitized or something? Light, sounds.. Electric sensations and anxious all the time and chest tightness.

Sadly this is very common in WD  I sometimes have a hard time with the sound of my husbands voice, or I can't listen to guided meditations, my husband get his bowl out for cereal and how loud it sounds when he sets the bowl down.  Can you wear ear plugs or headphones to help block out the noise?  This does get better, it seems that is is always there but not as intense all the time. To much activity going on around me, like going to a store or trying to watch tv, hearing people talking all can be overwhelming at times.

 

On 9/11/2021 at 1:07 PM, Paquita said:

Electric sensations and anxious all the time

I have electricity and anxious, panic  in my brain as well as in my body, this can be very unsettling and scary.  I think all of this, the brain sensations, the sound sensitivity the slowness in thought, focus, and cognitive numbness all go together.  Someday it seems I have to really concentrate to  think or process what I want to say or ever follow what other people are saying.  Do you feel like your thoughts are cut short or maybe your thoughts are blunted?  Again there are so many different wd symptoms, try not get over think them.  There are threads on Symptoms and Self-care forum on the many things we can experience when in WD.

 

What method are you using to cut your Paxil?  The brassmonkey taper is highly recommended here.  I see you are cutting pretty fast.  Remember the lower you get the lower the % cuts.  You may want to hold here for awhile.

 

Hang in there.  This can be a rough journey but you can do it.❤️

[Paquita]

17 hours ago, Greatful said:

What method are you using to cut your Paxil?  The brassmonkey taper is highly recommended here.  I see you are cutting pretty fast. 

Hi I used tapering strips. I tapered very slowly but due to severe withdrawal, my dr tried the Prozac bridge.

Then didn't want me to be on 2 ssri's for too long so the pharmacy made a quick taper for the last 5mg of Paxil.

I didn't have any other tablets so I couldn't alter or cut them myself.

A few days ago I was on 0mg. So the Paxil is gone.

 

I still have severe insomnia. Last night not even an hour of sleep. I also think I have developed sleep anxiety.

The last couple of months I've had bad panic attacks at night triggered by my chest and throat feeling so tight.

I also had sleep paralysis. The -- I can't breathe feeling --

 

Now I notice that I get anxious when feeling the moment I lose control. That moment when you feel sleepy and start feeling heavy.

The chest tightness gets worse at that point and I'm simply afraid of letting go.

The jolts I'm having keep me awake and anxious. I'm very tired but simply cannot rest.

I would like to hear if anyone else has experienced this?

It's a vicious cycle now. The lack of sleep exarcebates panic attacks and the panic attacks cause lack of sleep.

Breathing exercises don't really work. I sometimes listen to an audio book for distraction.

 

 

17 hours ago, Greatful said:

To much activity going on around me, like going to a store or trying to watch tv, hearing people talking all can be overwhelming at times.

Very overwhelming.

 

17 hours ago, Greatful said:

Do you feel like your thoughts are cut short or maybe your thoughts are blunted?

Yes I do feel foggy. Not clear in my mind. I forget things sometimes.

 

 

17 hours ago, Greatful said:

Hang in there.  This can be a rough journey but you can do it.❤️

Thank you  💚

[Greatful]

@Paquita

 

1 hour ago, Paquita said:

pharmacy made a quick taper for the last 5mg of Paxil.

 

Are you still on Prozac?

 

It looks like you went from 3mg to 0mg in 1 month.   I am worried that you have went to fast and now are going to be on a bumpy road for

awhile.  I am not sure about the math but here they recommend no more than 10% reduction a month and hold for 2 weeks.  

I want you to contact a mod if things get to bad.  There are a lot of people here that have done quick tapers/ ct's and are healing.  Have you read any success stories to help encourage you.  KenA has a great story about his WD and his success.

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/22768-☼-kena-8-months-in-withdrawal-after-ct/?tab=comments#comment-484027

 

 

1 hour ago, Paquita said:

The last couple of months I've had bad panic attacks at night triggered by my chest and throat feeling so tight.

I also had sleep paralysis. The -- I can't breathe feeling --

I know that @Mia1 had really bad sleep issues and throat tightening and @Selfhealerhad the air hunger feeling .  You should contact them for advice.

 

I really feel bad for you.  All the crazy and scary things that we go through from these drugs.  It goes to show how strong and how much they disrupted our chemical make up.  Remember you are not alone and keep reaching out for support.  This may be the one of the hardest things you face in your life, but know that you will heal.  Panicking is not a option, nothing bad is going to happen to you, it just feels like it will and every thought will seem so real and true.  Remember they are very distorted.  I have had the most crazy out of this world things happen to me when I ct'd  Seroquel, I started to think "What if the birds are trying to tell me something."  My filter in my brain is way off and distorted. I will still get very distorted thoughts,  I am learning that it is my brain not working right and try not to dwell on it.  I have a story I think you would enjoy.  It will explain the what is happening in your brain when it is healing and why you are having some crazy symptoms.

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/10914-what-is-happening-in-your-brain/

 

 

Everyday can change,  some days I feel panic and fear, I have to remind myself I have nothing to fear.  It can be a merry-go-round of" what am I going to wake up with today".

 

How is the meditating going?  I can't say it enough that it is so helpful.  Even on the days when I can hardly think and my brain is in panic with thoughts I still do it.  You will only get better and will keep getting better at not getting stuck in the though spiral all day long.  Yes you will have thoughts but you can just let them be there and not focus on them. 

Remember they are very distorted. We have the choice of what thoughts we want to follow or not.  If it is one you don't want to follow just say "OH thought"  calmly and move on to something else, what you were doing or your breath.  This also works with anxiety also,  just say OH feeling and move on again.  Accept it as a sensation in your body and nothing else.

 

If you need any  help with this read Mia1 thread,  reach out to her.

 

Again we are all here for you.  Think of SA as a huge life raft that is supporting people from all over the world suffering from these drugs.❤️

[Hanna72]

Hi @Paquita

I have been reading through your thread, as I also switched from Paxil to Fluoxetine (bridged) recommended also by my doctor as I could not get passed the 10 mg Paxil.

I wanted to come in here and give you some hope.
Even though I had major bumps in the road and had to reinstate fluoxetine after very fast taper from both drugs, I DID stabilise eventually, to the point I could begin a slow taper again off of the fluoxetine.

I do experience the usual windows and wave patterns and some days are harder then others, but I can function and live with those symptoms even though it can be frustrating and hard at times.

 

1 hour ago, Paquita said:

The chest tightness gets worse at that point and I'm simply afraid of letting go.

I have numerous times had those symptoms. But with time it has eased and is not as frequent.

1 hour ago, Paquita said:

The lack of sleep exarcebates panic attacks and the panic attacks cause lack of sleep.

I was having panic attacks left and right for a while. It was at its highest when Paxil was gone from my body. Now I hardly ever have them.

 

I know this is such a hard journey and I am sorry that you have to go through this. 
I sincerely hope it will work for you.

 

Crossing my fingers for you and wishing you all the best🙏

 

[Paquita]

@Greatful  and @Hanna72

 

Thank you for your replies and kind words.

I haven't been much online lately because I feel extremily fatigue, dizzy and oversensitized.

I am out of breath constantly even when I am doing nothing? I'm gasping. 😩 My heart is racing with everything.

I find it hard to deal with that constant agitated feeling and that tight chest. Especially at night.

 

In some of my previous posts I explained why there was a quick taper for the last 5mg of Paroxetine.

Reinstatement seemed like a bad idea.

It was, and is, a gamble. I am still on Fluoxetine now, really hoping it wil stabilize soon. I will not taper Fluoxetine

until I feel better and more stable. I am very sensitive to changes.

It's hard, you never know what is the right thing to do. But I do think I'm having CT withdrawal the last couple of weeks.

 

I'm trying to meditate. Still having trouble with focussing on my breathing. Listening to guided meditations and audiobooks

for distraction. But sometimes even sounds are too much.

Right now I am not even drinking tea with caffeine anymore, even moving my head gives me vertigo.

Typing this is making me feel tired.

 

But I really wanted to let you all know I am thinking of you and your struggles as well!

 

 

 

[Greatful]

@Paquita

4 hours ago, Paquita said:

I am still on Fluoxetine now, really hoping it wil stabilize soon. I will not taper Fluoxetine

until I feel better and more stable. I am very sensitive to changes.

I know this is a very frustrating path that we are going down, but know that you will heal.  I can relate to being very sensitive to changes. I am glad that you are still trying to meditate.  Every little bit helps to get us through the days and weeks.  Man these buggers have done a number on us.   Strong for such little pills.

 

4 hours ago, Paquita said:

But sometimes even sounds are too much.

Being so sensitive to sounds and movement really makes it a challenge. 

I have a hard time with noise too, it comes and goes like everything else does when in wd.

Check you multi vitamin, B vitamins can be activating. 

You may want to up your omegas to everyday and start  magnesium. Magnesium glycinate is really easy to absorb into the body.

Magnesium is good for anxiety.

 

Hang in there.  Everyday that goes by you are  slowly healing. ❤️  

[Greatful]

@PaquitaHow are you doing?❤️