UserMan1775: Having trouble reinstating Prozac, looking for advice

[ChessieCat]

On 1/2/2022 at 2:57 AM, UserMan1775 said:

Question though, once you are not sensitized and your nervous system is not destablized, theoretically would you be able to try again and potentially be successful?

 

How long would that take? Theoretically.

 

 

 

Nobody knows how long it would take or if it would be possible, especially since the effect of psychiatric drugs is cumulative.  It is an unanswerable question.  And it is better to learn non drug coping techniques and learn life coping techniques so that you do not need to depend on a drug solution to try to fix your issues.

[UserMan1775]

Hello,

 

I wanted to give everyone a little update, been 8 days since my last 10mg prozac dose, after my finally attempt at many different doses to stabalize, clearly it did not work.

 

I am currently just doing what is in my signature, which is the ativan twice a day and the hydroxizine prn at night.

 

I will say very surprisingly, in only 8 days, my sleep has improved, not great by any means but improved. Last night for the first time I actually slept 11-5 vs 12-2/3, which I was shocked when I looked at the clock. Did not take the hydroxizine last night either, which was also surprising.

 

Every morning I wake up with a headache from what I believe was the minor neuronal damages from taking the prozac 20mg on that first day (still no idea why the first day of 20mg was fine, but day 2 was not), however, that headaches has been less pronounced each day and I do still wake up with anxiety but it is less, and it seems after my morning ativan dose I am calm enough to start functioning on my day.

 

I am also somehow, no idea how, feeling less depressed. I think because I am not sick all the time from taking the pill.

 

Nervous system feels calmer. I see my doc tomm, but I am very hesitant to try anything else after seeing the results of the last 8 days and gone through 2 half life cycles of prozac, probably around 2.5 mg in my system for SERT occupancy.

 

The funny thing with prozac, and as I said I have been on and off it many times in the past 14 years. Every time, first month is usually okay, then that 25-35 days hit where it's all out of your system and the anxiety and panic attacks start again, so that is in the back of my mind.

 

I have done this a few times before. Was always able to reinstate successfully though a few months later if I decided. Clearly not this time, batting 4/5.

 

One times when i got off as a teen, as I said in an earlier post. I got off prozac after 3 years, I had about 6-9 months of feeling blah, nothing like what people describe on here but bleh, but was still in school and totally functioning and after 9 months it faded, nothing like this though. When i say it was minor it was MINOR.

 

Somehow tho, feel kinda okay again today, will be slightly active and go from there.

[Kiasofia]

I'm so glad to hear that you have slept well and been feeling less depressed. Don't despair if it worsens again. It will also get better again.

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Please be kind to your central nervous system and don't try other drugs than what you are currently taking, for the next few months. It is likely that you will be recommended ECT or TMS since you are reacting badly to "antidepressants". These are also damaging treatments. So please don't be fooled, like I was.

 

Keep it simple, slow and stable

[UserMan1775]

2 hours ago, Kiasofia said:

I'm so glad to hear that you have slept well and been feeling less depressed. Don't despair if it worsens again. It will also get better again.

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Please be kind to your central nervous system and don't try other drugs than what you are currently taking, for the next few months. It is likely that you will be recommended ECT or TMS since you are reacting badly to "antidepressants". These are also damaging treatments. So please don't be fooled, like I was.

 

Keep it simple, slow and stable

 

 

They aren't that extreme, they just want to try another SSRI, but thank you for the warning, I do appreciate that.

 

Yeah, as for the nervous system, I bought magnesium, starting taking 200mg, which I probably needed anyway, so that is good too. If I do add supplements, I will do it one at a time as suggested, but magnesium seemed no problem.

 

Still very unhappy all this happened, I almost don't even want to talk about it, but I have to *sigh* go with my gut and do what I think is best, I will get my car back soon and start working again soon WFH, so hopefully that will bring some routine.

 

I always been researching natural ways for neurogenesis and stable nervous system stuff, and I went on a 30 min walk today, which funny enough I did have a mood boost after, I am not happy all this happened though, I am like very angry and many different emotions. 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

There are many existing topics on SA.  Before creating a new topic please do a search to see if one already exists.  Use site search or an internet search engine and add site:survivingantidepressants.org to the search term.

 

I've moved the new topic you created to the existing topic.  SA likes to keep similar information in one place so it is easier for members to find.

 

exercise-do-more-do-less-do-nothing-what-worked-for-you

 

[UserMan1775]

7 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

There are many existing topics on SA.  Before creating a new topic please do a search to see if one already exists.  Use site search or an internet search engine and add site:survivingantidepressants.org to the search term.

 

I've moved the new topic you created to the existing topic.  SA likes to keep similar information in one place so it is easier for members to find.

 

exercise-do-more-do-less-do-nothing-what-worked-for-you

 

 

I didn't know that, no problem.

[Kiasofia]

15 hours ago, UserMan1775 said:

they just want to try another SSRI

I'm relieved they are not suggesting ECT/TMS, but concerned that they want to try another SSRI. It's the last thing your brain needs right now. The best a (very low dose) SSRI can do is relieve withdrawal symptoms, but you are also suffering from an adverse reaction and reinstatement is not advised in that case. It will batter the brain even more.

 

Gentle exercise is very good so it's great you were able to take a walk❤️

[UserMan1775]

On 1/4/2022 at 8:32 AM, Kiasofia said:

I'm relieved they are not suggesting ECT/TMS, but concerned that they want to try another SSRI. It's the last thing your brain needs right now. The best a (very low dose) SSRI can do is relieve withdrawal symptoms, but you are also suffering from an adverse reaction and reinstatement is not advised in that case. It will batter the brain even more.

 

Gentle exercise is very good so it's great you were able to take a walk❤️

Do you have any idea why when i wake up at night, with my insomnia, I have headaches?

 

The longer I sleep the more headaches I have, and after my adverse reaction it feels like i have such hard difficulty getting to sleep where I did not before.

 

Granted, they are less than what they were.

 

Will i ever be sleepy or able to sleep normal ever again?

 

Do you know anyone who got the head burning who was?

[UserMan1775]

Also, I have to be honest with you guys, I am not sure if any of the mods were aware of this, while I did get 20 hr burning headaches and could not sleep, i took 10-20mg(avg) of prozac for approximately 8 weeks, it was definitely still working after the 4th week my depression and anxiety was much less. I still had other s/x but i could tell it was working.

 

So in this case, it sounds like even though i was 'kindling' or had the severe side effects, it clearly still has the therapeutic effect with me. That in part was why I kept trying, because I could tell it still 'worked' in me.

 

Just wanted to put that out there for information in case any of you were unaware of this. It may be possible you have more severe side effects but after the time it takes to build it, it may have both therapeutic effect and just also more side effects.

 

Obviously anecdoctal, but I thought I would let you know for forum records.

[manymoretodays]

Hi there UserMan1775,

 

On 1/5/2022 at 5:14 PM, UserMan1775 said:

Also, I have to be honest with you guys, I am not sure if any of the mods were aware of this, while I did get 20 hr burning headaches and could not sleep, i took 10-20mg(avg) of prozac for approximately 8 weeks, it was definitely still working after the 4th week my depression and anxiety was much less. I still had other s/x but i could tell it was working.

 

I don't really get this ^.  You'll willingly suffer burning headaches and no sleep, to stay on a drug.

If you do want to continue with your full support of MI(or mental illness) and the use of drugs to treat,  I wonder if you might be better served at DepressionForums.org or PatientsLikeMe.com.

 

I am noting your response though, above, or responding to it now......for our forum records.    Trust me, you are not the first here, who felt strongly about their AD, or AD's working wonders, or being more helpful than going without them. 

 

I tend to think your symptoms were/are WD.  And not due to any inherent "depression or anxiety" that you have.......I mean in that biological way, your depression and anxiety. 

At one time, like most of us, your docs really thought that a drug would help or even cure maybe a natural reaction to your environment or situation.  And then I think you too, may have been convinced of that too.

It can take a long time to shift paradigms, I get that.  And I'm no doctor, just someone who had to take another path to achieve better health and wellness.

  

On 1/1/2022 at 6:37 PM, UserMan1775 said:

Do you get any headaches? Did the doxepin help you sleep immediately?

 

Try not to drug shop here,  UserMan1775.

- Drug shopping or recommending drugs
This is a site for going off drugs. It is not a site for finding out what drug to take next, comparing drug cocktails, or recommending what drug to add. This could be dangerous. People could be hurt by your advice.

I took the above from the Read This First forum.  And I see you were not offering advice, just asking about ?possibly another drug to try??  Many don't read the Read This First forum, before they get going on site.......so I am just showing you the forum, in the hopes you want to get more familiar with what we are about here at survivingantidepressants.org.

 

Is the head burning or sleep difficulties improving at all, since you last posted here, on your topic?

Would you also put a date into your signature, as far as when you started the ativan?  I do see the dosage noted there.  Just go to AccountSettings/signature to edit, and then be sure to hit the SAVE button too, when done.  Thanks.

Once physiologically dependent on benzo's, which can happen in just 2 weeks, we would recommend tapering to get off those as well.  Same principles, the 10% or less of each previous dose, done cautiously at 4 weeks intervals, and learning how from your own body, you might react to that kind of WD too.

 

And I wanted to also mention benzobuddies.org too, as another forum where you might find what you need too, as far as more like minded, to have discussions with. 

 

Do use Drugs.com  always to look on up any drug you are contemplating from here on out.  And do use caution as to the risks/benefits of any of the psychoactives.  If you plug in any drug in the top search box there, you'll get more on each individual drug, and see the side effects, adverse effect profiles too.

 

And caution too, on starting anything really, this includes supplements as well.  Many of us have found ourselves much more sensitive to everything under the Sun after long periods of psychoactives and then indiscriminate tapers or drug changes.

 

These are the only 2 supplements we recommend:

BASIC SUPPLEMENT TOOLKIT

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

And then, as with everything, just one change at a time, and if trying anything new, start low, go slow too.

 

I'm wondering if you might not still be just gaining stability post all the changes you had done with Prozac.  Those were about a month or so ago?  And it's not unusual for things to slowly stabilize after changes, while your CNS is attempting to re-adapt.

 

Wishing you well.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

I added a link to your benzo tapering topic in your first post here, in your Introduction.

And here it is again, for you:  How would I do an ativan to klonopin crosstaper?

 

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2022 by manymoretodays
additional, clarity, added link to benzo tapering topic

[UserMan1775]

I never thought AD were a cure, it's obviously you are controlling symptoms and dealing with side effects in return for the benefits, this goes with any medication. Pros and cons.

 

I have IBS-D also with horrendous stomach spasms and diahrea multiple times a day, for my entire life, i tried every natural thing under the sun, nothing worked, so they fact that I could take a AD with low side effects and great long term profile like prozac and put that IBS into remission, the pros were greater than the cons. Along with my anxiety and panic, which as much as you guys love to puts quotes around everything, I can assure you is very real before I took any medication at all.

 

I made one mistake, wanted to see how i did after a few years on, that i was completely unaware of the risks getting off and not told by my incompetent psych, so obviously I am here looking for answers. Also the experience is different for everyone, you are 5 years off everything, ive been there before, you get jaded, you forget how awful it is, everyday i live in hell, so please try to be compassionate as I am on here doing my best trying to figure out what is going on and looking for solutions other than the only answer on here from vet members on here which is essentially 'hey have fun living in hell for 6 years and then maybe you will be better be maybe you won't. But try some magnesium and fish oil' by the way of which I take both, they are not bad but it is certainly no fix and is a minimal help.

 

I am not trying to drug shop or offend anybody, i am trying to find the best option at this time in crisis, and much of the staff while thank you for providing good information, would be helpful to understand the struggle I and many members am going through especially the vets over the hump, i know it is hard to relate once you feel better, but i am doing my best and the criticism on here is the biggest complaint from every single person i have spoken too, from people simply looking for answers and help.

 

Most of us are here by accident, had i known this could potentially happen i would have just taken the damn thing forever, i had no idea an AD you once took could potentially not work again, i told my psych my full plan and was supervised and she was severely incompetent, i told her too before i switched people, this is awful

 

sorry for the vent, i am trying my best and criticism is not helping.

[ChessieCat]

On 1/3/2022 at 6:51 AM, ChessieCat said:

the effect of psychiatric drugs is cumulative

 

Sidenote: No other drug gives me issue, caffiene(unless it's a lot), ativan, hydroxizine, clonazepam, advil, ambien, all work fine no problem, it has just been Prozac so far. Very confusing.

 

I have already mentioned this early in January but thought I would expound on it.

 

The effect of psychiatric drugs, changing drugs and doses, has a cumulative effect.  What worked before may not work in the future, either taking the drug itself of getting off it.  We have members here who managed to chop and change drugs and doses for many years and then boom, one day the wheels fell off.

[UserMan1775]

2 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Sidenote: No other drug gives me issue, caffiene(unless it's a lot), ativan, hydroxizine, clonazepam, advil, ambien, all work fine no problem, it has just been Prozac so far. Very confusing.

 

I have already mentioned this early in January but thought I would expound on it.

 

The effect of psychiatric drugs, changing drugs and doses, has a cumulative effect.  What worked before may not work in the future, either taking the drug itself of getting off it.  We have members here who managed to chop and change drugs and doses for many years and then boom, one day the wheels fell off.

 

 

I totally appreciate that, but I had no idea, no one told me that, my psych didn't tell me that, I am doing my best all these months in, but this is not going good, i understand what you are saying though, I am just very upset.

[ChessieCat]

We understand that members can be upset and angry, and this is normal.  We trusted our medical professionals.  We expected them to know what to do.  This in itself is bad enough, but to have to deal with the fall out of their treatment makes it so much worse.

 

Staff do not need to remember what they went through personally, or experience a particular issue themselves, to understand what a member is going through.  We are constantly reminded of the effect of psychiatric drugs, on, off and trying to get off them, because we see time and time again here at SA when responding to members.

 

There is basically two types of members, the ones who followed the advice of a medical professional and the ones who tried to do things themselves.

 

The first type tend to have anger and be upset with the doctor, whereas the second type can be angry and upset with themselves, for causing the situation that they find themselves in.

 

For both types of members part of the process of the psychiatric drug journey is to learn to accept that what has happened has happened and there is nothing that can be done to go back and change it.  It is in the past, it is history.  Yes it is a fact that it has happened but staying emotional about it is not helpful to your recovery.  Yes it can be hard to do, but it is often the first hurdle to get over.  Once you can accept the situation, there is less stress, and less stress allows the body and brain a chance to do what it has to do to recover, instead of dealing with the stress.

 

And I have seen the difference it makes once a member accepts their situation and then focuses on doing what they need to do to recover (and I don't mean taking supplements, but self care and non drug coping, tapering carefully, holding as needed etc).  We find ourselves on a horrible roller coaster against our will.  We are buckled in our seat and cannot get off it whilst it is moving.  But we do have a choice and control over how we feel during the ride.  We can get emotional and kick and scream and keep telling ourselves we are scared, angry, etc or we can hold on as best we can, try to sit as comfortably as we can (instead of flinging ourselves around), accept that we have to go through it and believe that it will come to an end.  And just like being on a scary rollercoaster, it generally seems to take much longer than it actually is.

 

We feel like we need to do something to fix the situation.  We feel like doing nothing is just that, doing nothing.  However, doing nothing IS actually doing something.  It is giving the brain the time it needs to make the adjustments that it needs to make to regain homeostasis, which it is constantly trying to do.

[UserMan1775]

Maybe you can tell me this, why is it only serotonin drugs that seems to not agree after this last withdrawal, nothing else seems to mess with me, i have other effects like my sleep is **** and other symptoms i rather not dwell on, by why, do my receptors need to reset?

 

What is the neurological reason for the serotonin receptor hypersensitivity, i have read all the theories on here behind why it happens, but that is exactly what they are, theories, the brain is so complex and everyone is different.. How the heck is this even happening and how long until they go back to homeostasis and reset, (I am sure it's everyone is different so same answer ) i wish there was a professional that would study this field and give us some real god damn answers, this has ruined so many lives. 

 

Like my friend was addicted to heroin for 10 years, then some guy comes along invents suboxone, gets my friends off the street slowly tapers off that, now he's been clean for 5 years.

 

People might use that analogy and say prozac but the problem the drug i was on was prozac, or get some stem cells send them into the brain, or some other solution, this **** is just insane i cannot get over it.

 

Btw, not a dig at you chessie or the mods, the frustration is just overwhelming. BTW grats on 0 pristiq, I hope you feel great.

[UserMan1775]

Hello,

 

Is there a diet any of you all follow to keep cortisol spikes low at night, and any other suppse beside the omega and magnesium, these cortisol panic attack wakeups are bonkers.

[ChessieCat]

early-morning-waking-managing-the-morning-cortisol-spike

 

[UserMan1775]

Updated sig

[Fosca]

Hi!  I found your thread and I think we are both in somewhat similar situations.  How are you doing?  What are your current symptoms?  Have you seen any improvements since stopping prozac?  Unfortunately I kindled extremely badly, so I don't have much hope for my situation, but I hope you are doing better. 

[UserMan1775]

4 hours ago, Fosca said:

Hi!  I found your thread and I think we are both in somewhat similar situations.  How are you doing?  What are your current symptoms?  Have you seen any improvements since stopping prozac?  Unfortunately I kindled extremely badly, so I don't have much hope for my situation, but I hope you are doing better. 

I don't have hope for my situation either, I haven't been on this board in quite some time because it is so depressing, but I wanted to update my number.

 

A few things got better after stopping, I would get these burning headaches and constant neasea and dizziness and they stopped after I discontinued serotenergic agents, I am working with a psychiatrist who had one other patient who had this, but unfortunately as everyone says on the site, there is literally no solution, some people get better some don't in our boats.
 

The problem with these drugs is everyone's nervous system is so different, really the trend I see though should be if you have been on the drug over 5 years and ESPECIALLY over 10 years, that tends to be when this is most probable to happen, if you are susceptible. 
 

Some people quit Prozac cold after 20 years though and have no problem, everyone's nervous system is different. Either way there needs to be more research over the number of years on the drug and the psychiatrist/physicians duty to make the patient aware this can happen and let

them know when starting long term use and especially if they bring up stopping after being on the drug for many years. That's the most common trend I notice from almost every post. There are exceptions obviously. 
 

Problem is people stop their meds every day sometimes with no supervision, but 495k people is wayyy to many and I am sure many more who don't even know about this website. there needs to be a 60 minutes or something. A lot of people have killed themselves, indefinite use after a certain point with no exceptions, even the EXTREMELY slow tapers encouraged on this website can get botched, you need to do it PERFECT to work. I would honestly just encourage indefinite use after some point, that's what I should have done and not ***** my entire life up. 
 

I was there too, I was planning to take forever, covid just messed with me, and here I am, if work would have continued 5 days a week as normal

so would my pill, it enrages me.

 

I can eat like almost no foods, I've lost 80 pounds in 7 months, my sleep is garbage, the anxiety is horrific, except at night it is better, I developed panic disorder with agoraphobia and unfortunately the cortisol spike bullsh*t on this website seems to be right, as insane as it first sounded to me, the AM is torture, I have tried changing my sleep oh goodness I have tried everything, I was sleeping like 2 hrs a night for months, I finally snapped and tried to off myself, didn't work, they gave me temazepam in the hospital, it's garbage sleep still but more than two hours now. I tried all Natural remedies, melatonin did absolutely nothing, did the micro doses for weeks and all Way up To 9 mg, no help. I think fish oil and magnesium is fine if you want to go that route, otherwise your body now reacts to normal things in weird ways.

 

my dad was concerned he sent me to a program and a psych who has seen this to try to rebuild my skills, it is not going great but I'm trying, it fluctuates. I am living in a group house but I am obviously the least functional.

 

Night is DEFINITELY the best though, I feel much calmer.

 

I don't have too much to add except I am sorry this also happened to you. I don't mean to scare you maybe you will get better.

[Fosca]

Hi, thanks for taking the time to reply.  I understand how it can be depressing being on this board. 

 

19 hours ago, UserMan1775 said:

I would get these burning headaches and constant neasea and dizziness and they stopped after I discontinued serotenergic agents

 

That's sounds like a good sign to me!  I had the burning headache thing as well when I kindled.  Unfortunately I'm still dealing with nerve pain and aching in my head and neck.  It got better for a while but now seems to be getting worse again, so I don't know how it will progress in my case.

 

19 hours ago, UserMan1775 said:

I am working with a psychiatrist who had one other patient who had this, but unfortunately as everyone says on the site, there is literally no solution, some people get better some don't in our boats.

 

Is the psychiatrist suggesting anything other than time?  Do they have you taking any other medications?  I know some people on here have had success with small doses of anticonvulsants like Lamictal, though it's obviously a gamble.  I have yet to find any doctor that understands this, so I'd be curious to know what your doctor is saying.

 

I'm sorry for the suffering you are enduring.  Please hang in there.  It sounds like your symptoms are ones that will slowly get better with time, and might completely resolve at some point.  

 

 

[UserMan1775]

Had a window I think today, is that possible while being on temazepam for sleep and Ativan during the day?

 

I thought you could

only get windows when off everything, maybe I am wrong 

[Roserdl]

1 hour ago, UserMan1775 said:

Had a window I think today, is that possible while being on temazepam for sleep and Ativan during the day?

 

I thought you could

only get windows when off everything, maybe I am wrong 

No you can get windows while healing off drug or reinstatement or multiple drugs.  People stabilize after existing drug changes while still on other meds

[ChessieCat]

7 hours ago, UserMan1775 said:

I thought you could

only get windows when off everything, maybe I am wrong 

 

A window is any period of time (it can be of any length) where symptoms improve.

[UserMan1775]

Had I think another window today, where noise and laughter and other things did not bother me, i also slept and woke up without shaking and did not have severe depression, i ate some more foods that use to give me headaches either did not give me headache or gave me only light head pressure, also for the first time in months went on a website i used to enjoy for fun, it was very difficult to focus, but found it a bit easier as i did it more.

[UserMan1775]

had a window today, boy are they rare i want to k*ll myself most days, sig update