Sofa: Mirtazapine CT withdrawal getting worse. Reinstatement? Need help!

[Scrountz]

Hey @Sofa,

 

Just wanted to share some words of encouragement. It sounds like you've had a really rough go of things lately. It's particularly distressing when symptoms get worse over time, not better.

 

One of the hardest parts of protracted withdrawal and autonomic nervous system instability is that there is no good way to control it or to predict when it's going to get better. It's extremely difficult to have to suffer through these symptoms, especially the really bad ones, without knowing when they're going to end. No one here can tell you when this is going to get better for you, nor do we have any magic advice to make it all go away.

 

It's probably going to last longer than you like. It's questionable whether taking anything else is going to help make it better, though that's ultimately up for you to decide. Fish oil and magnesium are pretty much the only recommended supplements on this site, and everything else is up to personal experimentation. Like a lot of us, you're basically out to sea with no easy way home.

 

The general wisdom on this forum though, as evidenced in people's case histories and their success stories is that people get better. This doesn't last forever. When you're in it, it feels like it's never going to end, but it eventually will. The nervous system has a way of finding stability again. These drugs are powerful stuff and can really knock us out of balance, but with time our bodies can heal.

 

When it was really bad for me, I just took things one day at a time. Sometimes one hour at a time. I stopped trying to get back to me and just tried my best to roll with what was happening. No one should have to roll with what we experience because it's awful, it's so so so awful and beyond description, but when you're in it, you've got no other choice. It goes away when it does, and that's all there is to it.

 

You might look at some of the non-drug coping techniques people post about on here. They won't make the symptoms go away, but they might help you cope with them better. At this point it's all about survival and just making it through the day. If you can find some resolve and grit you'll get there.

 

I hope things start to settle down for you soon. Take care of yourself in the meantime and let us know how you're doing on your intro topic.

 

 

 

[Sofa]

@Scrountz Thank you for really taking your time in replying! I really appreciate it. 
 

I wish i new about this forum a year ago, then Maybe a would have been healed today. 
 

I hope that i now, after all these drugs and setbacks, finally can start to heal. Right now it seems Impossible, but hopefully in a year i Feel much better. 
 

whenever a Doctor tells me to take medication now i will decline, and if my parents push it on me, i will withstand it. Hopefully i will get back to myself in not all too long, or at lest be at a stage were i can function and not only survive minute by minute. 
 

Over the last year i have been given so many drugs for something that was just insomnia and anxiety in the beginning. Had i only known. My biggest wish is to go back in time.

 

I know i am still here, its just that my body is dysfunctional now. Someday my body will be able to host me again.

[Sofa]

@Altostrata @Scrountz

 

My GP did some blood test, and says i al low in B-vitamins (B12, B9 and B6). 
 

In this forum its only recommended to take fish oil and magnesium as supplements, and i wondered if anyone new why taking B-vitamins might not be good in withdrawal? Why is it not recommended? 
 

I really want to be careful with my supplements, and my GP sadly does not noe anything about withdrawal

 

[Altostrata]

Many people whose system are sensitized find the B vitamins to be activating. If you have to supplement B vitamins, you might start taking a small chip of a vitamin B12 tablet at first and gradually increase over weeks. Same with the others. Chewable or sublingual tablets are best, they get absorbed in the mouth.

[Sofa]

@Altostrata 

Thank you! I will try that. 
 

My neurologist thinks i might have long covid because of my cognitive issues and severe brain fog. Fo you know if long covid symptoms and withdrawal symptoms can overlap? Or if covid can worsen withdrawal?

 

[Altostrata]

Withdrawal symptoms are often autonomic, as are long covid symptoms.

[Sofa]

@Altostrata

 

Sorry for all the questions!
 

I really like tea! But most tea had caffeine in it, and i try to stay away from caffeine. Dont want to worsen my symptoms.

 

I have heard Rooibos tea does not contain caffeine, but it says its a herbal tea.

 

I wondered if you had any experince/knowledge about this tea? 
Or if there is any other tea that is safe?

[ChessieCat]

I have moved your post to the relevant topic:

 

 

[Sofa]

@Altostrata @ChessieCat

 

Hi!

I always Feel worse and more spaced out after a nap. My symptoms always get worse, but they never go back down again. If i try to relax i only Feel worse and have a new worse baseline. Is this normal? Is this why i continue to get worse? 

Anyone know why or the physiology behind it?

[Sofa]

Scared i am permanently damaged

Got PSSD after quitting Remeron this christmas. Had a bad reaction to the last pill.

 

Since i have gotten worse, and i Feel like i have screwd up all chances of recovery!

I have taken supplements (l-Theanine, c-vitamin, zinc, magnesium and d-vitamin) because i thought i just had anxiety. Had no idea what PSSD was. 

 

Have drinken herbal teas like lavendel and ginger.

 

Have taken benzo (valium 5 mg x3) and zopiclone.

 

Scared i have ***** up badly the last three months. Had i only known what PSSD was. 

Scared i permanently crashed from ginger ice tea. Had no idea it could be bad. Did i ruin it?

 

Am i *****? All the stories of permanent crashes scare me, and i am afraid since i just keep getting worse. 

Please someone give me some hope!!

I Feel ruined. My mental symptom are way worse now than the sexual onse.

[Scrountz]

@Sofa

 

No can say for sure what is actually going on for you. There really isn't a good theory of PSSD out there. It might be that supplements have set you back, but its equally plausible that the random nature of withdrawal/ADR means these are the symptoms that you're dealing with now.

 

When things get bad for me I try to remind myself it's not forever. The wisdom of this forum is that people get better, even if it takes a very long time. I could be wrong in this, but you don't really see anyone on this forum who is 10, 15 or 20 years out and still experiencing really bad symptoms. People get better. The nervous system heals, and you will too, it's just that no one can say when or what you're going to need to go through first.

[Altostrata]

Please review this topic from the beginning to prior discussion about this.

[LostPhil]

I felt really bad after quitting mirt and did it too quick. Thought I had stuffed myself up so bad. But now I’m feeling better. Bodies and the nervous system will heal themselves - it’s just a matter of time. You might have quite a few issues going on sofa (such as anxiety) that are making it hard to unpack it all. Its scary when you are in the middle of it and can’t see the light. But you will get through it. Hang in there and look after yourself as best you can

[Sofa]

@ChessieCat @Altostrata

 

is it possible to develope aphantasia from this? I am so scared. 
 

i cant visualize at all. Its all Black in my mind. Its so scary. I Feel trapped in my head not working.

[ChessieCat]

Have you tried doing a search on SA for this?

[Sofa]

5 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Have you tried doing a search on SA for this?

Yes, did not find much information sadly

[Sofa]

Hi, i just need some help! I have read about the window and waves, but is it normal for symptoms to have different patterns? 
 

Is it normal to have some symptoms get progressivly worse without Windows and waves, and then just level out? And then have other symptoms with clear waves and Windows pattern? 
 

Is also normal to get new symptoms a few months into withdrawal? 
 

I am just clueless about what is happening. I keep getting worse and new symptoms appear, and i just dont understand whats happening. 

[Altostrata]

You're doing a pretty good job describing windows and waves, @Sofa. 

 

Please try to get your health anxiety in hand. Your symptoms will fluctuate for a while, as explained many times.

[ChessieCat]

https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/healthanxiety.htm

[Sofa]

Last question!

 

When i took Remeron/mirtazapine for sleep, i took 15 mg on and off. My Doctor said it was a really low dose and fine.

 

I would take it for Maybe a week, and then not for a day, the take it four days, and then not again for three days. Then i would take it one day, and then not again for five-six days, before i took it once again for sleep. The last time i Did it i had not taken it for a week, and got an immediate reaction to the pill that was way different from the other times. 
 

Did i basically CT 15 mg several times in a month? And then reinstate? And then have an adverse reaction? 
 

Sorry if this is badly written, i an just trying to understand my mistakes and How bad they are. 

[Scrountz]

13 hours ago, Sofa said:

Last question!

 

When i took Remeron/mirtazapine for sleep, i took 15 mg on and off. My Doctor said it was a really low dose and fine.

 

I would take it for Maybe a week, and then not for a day, the take it four days, and then not again for three days. Then i would take it one day, and then not again for five-six days, before i took it once again for sleep. The last time i Did it i had not taken it for a week, and got an immediate reaction to the pill that was way different from the other times. 
 

Did i basically CT 15 mg several times in a month? And then reinstate? And then have an adverse reaction? 
 

Sorry if this is badly written, i an just trying to understand my mistakes and How bad they are. 

 

Even low doses of SSRIs can have a pretty potent effect on the nervous system. A lot of doctors don't appreciate that the minimal dose of an antidepressant medication is still really strong. This link here illustrates this. If you don't have a science background it can be a bit hard to understand, but basically even the lowest dose of an antidepressant still fills about 80% of the receptor sites that its supposed to. Increasing the dose of medication does not increase its effectiveness proportionately. So even though you were only taking 15mg doses, it would still effect your body very strongly.

 

I'm no doctor so I cant say for sure, but its likely that starting and stopping the medication several times in a single month was destabilizing for your nervous system. If you've read some of the other articles on this site, you might have come across discussions of how antidepressants work. Antidepressants don't work like medications such as aspirin or Benadryl, where you take one, it exerts its effect, and then you stop. Antidepressants are meant to be taken at regular dose intervals, and ultimately when you take them consistently, your body will make changes to adapt to the presence of the drug. It does this to maintain a state of balance, also called homeostasis. Our bodies like to maintain a certain set of conditions that are best for us. When we take something that changes those conditions, the body will make adaptations and adjustments so it can find those conditions again. 

 

When you stop taking the medication, those changes don't just magically go away. They've happened, and now they need time to come undone. This is in essence what medication withdrawal is. The body is still acting as though the medication is present, and it needs time to figure out that the medication isn't there and change back.

 

So if you stop taking the drug, then start taking it again, then stop taking it again, then start taking it again, your body is going to get very confused. Its going to have a really hard time figuring out how to get back to a balanced state, since so many changes have happened over a short period of time.

 

I wouldn't quite think of your situation as CTing several times, but you can think about it as sending your nervous system through a real roller coaster ride. Just because you've done this doesn't necessarily mean you're going to go through an experience several times worse than someone who simply discontinued too quickly one single time. Really, when we look at withdrawal from antidepressants, we may not be looking at the kind of classical "withdrawal" we think of at all, but rather a separate, unique condition that the abrupt discontinuation of our medication brings on. Its like that for a lot of us that what we're dealing with is some kind of temporary damage to our nervous systems, which slowly resolves over time. This is why you see people suffering in a similar way despite taking different medications for different periods of time and discontinuing at different rates. See this article for more insight into that. 

 

It sounds like your symptom pattern has changed recently. Getting better and then feeling worse again, or even feeling significantly worse than you did before, definitely happens to people. I think there are a lot of people on this forum who feel worse before they feel better, or feel better, then worse again, then better again, then worse etc. It helps me sometimes to read success stories from people who had it really rough and made it through.

 

@Irishwill2015CTed off of 40mg of Paxil and then went through a 6 month cocktail of basically every class of medication before finally discontinuing everything. Ultimately though it looks like he's made it through.

 

LossLeader went through a 4 year long withdrawal period that he described as truly awful, but it looks like he made it through too.

 

Baylissa's webinars also really helped bring me some hope. Check her website out if you haven't already: https://baylissa.com/withdrawal-resources/

She went through a hell of withdrawal herself for over two years and ultimately made it through. She's helped plenty of people since then, and has a lot of insight into the journey of others. Her sense was that everyone ultimately gets better, and I'm inclined to believe her. While there may be some people who suffer for a really, really long time, you don't hear of a lot of people on this forum who are 10, 15 or 20 years out and haven't experienced healing and relief. 

 

Keep going @Sofaand take care!

[Sofa]

Anyone know why my symtoms always gets worse after naps and sleep? 
 

I dont dare to take naps anymore because my symptoms always worsens and it feels like a new worse baseline that never get better 

[Ariel]

Hi @Sofa

 

Sounds like the cortisol spike phenomenon:

 

 

 

[Sofa]

@Ariel is it possible to have this if i nap in the day as well? Its not just in the morning. If i take a nap at 4 p.m. or 7 p.m. i still wake up feeling not good. And my symptoms seem to be permanently worsened after these naps 

[Ariel]

@Sofa

I'm not an expert but I have heard of that, yes.

 

[Sofa]

Is it normal to have reduced sence of smell? 
 

I used to have a Great smell, but now i can smell almost nothing 

[ChessieCat]

There are many existing topics on SA.  You can use the site search function or use an internet search engine and add site:survivingantidepressants.org to the search term.

 

There is a topic about smell.

[Fairsome]

On 5/6/2022 at 12:37 PM, Sofa said:

Is it normal to have reduced sence of smell? 
 

I used to have a Great smell, but now i can smell almost nothing 

I have altered smell (and also taste). I would say that everything smells bad for me, and I am nauseous almost all of the time. Obviosly it has to do with the autonomic nervous system that couldn't take it anymore...

[Sofa]

At this point i just feel brain damaged

 

I Feel like i have gotten some werid processing disorder in my brain at the same time as my vision is bad and i cant focus my eyes properly! My brain wont process hearing normally either!

 

Bad vision processing and trouble focusing eyes

 

When i look at things i Feel like my frontal lobe cant «see» it or register what i am seeing. 

 

I can look at a picture, but its like looking at a blank wall because my brain wont process it or give it meaning, or attatch emotions to it! Like i can see the picture or the video, but its like my brain itself has trouble seeing it. 

When i read i can see the words, but my brain wont register the word, so i have to stop at think what it means.
 
I recently checked my eyes, and my eye sight has not changed much from before. It is still the same.
My eye sight still feels way worse. Everything is blurry and out of focus. I have to constantly squint my eyes to look at things when i did not have to before, and they are still blurry and i feel like i dont see it properly. 
 
I really struggle with focusing my eyes. They have to strain a lot, and even then its hard to focus. When i look at things they are often blurry in the middle. I focus on my moms face and the middle is still blurry and i never get a clear picture. Same when i read!
 
My eyes also cant focus on bigger areas at the same time. Like my computer screen just looks weird and slightly streched out! Its like what is not in the direct center of my vision gets streched out and seems funky. And what i focus on is still blurry. 
 
its hard to explain, but my vision is something like this i feel: )
 
It not a smiley, but my eyes looking at the screen. My vision is sort of like that, like my vision is bending sort of. The werid is that sometimes its like this as well:  : ( 
 
It also feels like my vision cant «reach» what i am seeing, so i have to squint to see it, but i still cant «reach» it and feel/see it properly. 
 
Its the same when i read! I have most issues with screens and books!

I think this ties in with the fact that my brain wont «see» it properly, and associate it with meaning or emotion. So i myself feel like i dont see it, and try to focus harder on it. My eyes sees it, but my brain dont!
 
My brain has trouble processing vision

I also struggle to visualize images in my head. I have always been good at this, but my ability had just declined and faded away. Its really scary actually!

 

When i visualize its in the back of my head now (when i manage to get a small picture), and not in the front of my head/whole head like before. Like i mentioned i feel like my frontal lobe is gone!

 

Weird hearing issues

 

One of my more uncomfortable symptoms is my brain processing hearing.  It's like I hear things and as it goes into my ear it's processed differently and everything is a little off.  By the time it registers in my brain it sounds so unfamiliar and it's very disorientating, distracting and uncomfortable.  
 

Hearing my own voice causes me anxiety and is sometimes and is disorientating/confusion. 
 

It's almost as if my brain is scrambling the hearing process.  I hear my voice louder but it sounds distant and distorted and that causes great discomfort and anxiety. This happens with other sounds as well. Its like my brain cant point out where the sounds come from, and i dont hear voices clearly in my head. When i listen to music sometimes i struggle to make meaning of the words and they all scramble together and it sounds like gibberish! It also sounds distant and distorted too some times!

 

Its worst when i have earbuds in. Its like my brain does not understand the sound when it comes from both ears!

 

Music does not fill my whole head. I can only hear it in the back of my head and i cant hear it in the front of my head. Its so disturbing.

It just souds so weird in my head! I hear it in the back of my head on one side of my head! So strange! Its like my two brain halves are not connected! 

Sometimes music and speech just sounds like gibberish. I cant really process it and the words just float together. I can hear the music, but like with vision, my brain does not process or understand or attatch emotions to it. Speech and music soundsweird. 

 

It's scary, it's like my hearing mechanism is on some weird acid trip.

 

Sometimes i Feel like there is something in the way inside my brain almost, which is stopping my brain from processing and understanding things fully! Like this werid pressure and dense feeling that makes my brain strain to be fully present and to take things in. Its really scary!

 

Sorry if this was a long and weird post, but this is really bothering me and stops me from studying because i literally cant read at all, and i really struggle with screens like on computers. And i also used to love music, but it sounds so weird now, and my brain just cant process it. 
 

It all gives me anxiety! 
 

Is this really withdrawal? It just Feels like brain damaged. It had been like this for months now!

[ChessieCat]

Another member wrote this recently:

  

On 5/9/2022 at 11:32 AM, tomatosquasher65 said:

I think I’m also learning a lot about accepting suffering and not making it worse than it is. I can have really frustrating intrusive thoughts, which I think I had before getting on the drug, and I’m learning to observe them without judgement. All that is very encouraging, I just hope to be on the upswing again soon. 

 

My response to them:

 

On 5/9/2022 at 1:10 PM, ChessieCat said:

When we can accept and observe it is not as stressful on us because we aren't "fighting" the situation.

 

The more you focus on your symptoms, the more worried and scared you are going to be about them.  And the more worried and scared you are the more stress your are causing to your body.  I think that when the brain is dealing with the stress it is diverted away from working on stabilising other issues related to the psychiatric drugs.

 

Acceptance

[Sofa]

@ChessieCat

 

Is this normal symptoms though?

[Averus32]

35 minutes ago, Sofa said:

@ChessieCat

 

Is this normal symptoms though?

Yes. I've had all this and it does get better. 

Learn to calm yourself down. 

 

Meditate and learn box breathing - it's a technique that focuses on numbers and your breath. 

 

I felt completely broken coming off Mirtazapine and one of the worst things is the anxiety it gave me. 

The best thing I can say is drink chamomile tea, get some fresh air and if you can, don't smoke! 

[ChessieCat]

Have you seen this list of withdrawal symptoms?  Read through them very carefully and you will see that there is a wide variety of things and that they can affect different parts of the body; physically, mentally and emotionally.  Your symptom might not be exactly the same as what is described but there might be similarities so don't think that because your symptom is not listed that it is unusual to have that symptom.

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

[ChessieCat]

And to Averus's suggestions I would add include some gentle exercise.

 

Also it is helpful to learn and use non drug techniques and ways to distract yourself.

 

Non-drug techniques

[Sofa]

@Averus32

 

3 hours ago, Averus32 said:

Yes. I've had all this and it does get better. 

Learn to calm yourself down. 

 

Meditate and learn box breathing - it's a technique that focuses on numbers and your breath. 

 

I felt completely broken coming off Mirtazapine and one of the worst things is the anxiety it gave me. 

The best thing I can say is drink chamomile tea, get some fresh air and if you can, don't smoke! 

 

How long was it like this for you? For me it has come on gradually and gotten worse the past months. Its just so hard to distract when watching tv in itself is hard, and i get sad trying to listen to music because it just sounds so weird. I used to love listening to music!

[Averus32]

3 hours ago, Sofa said:

@Averus32

 

 

How long was it like this for you? For me it has come on gradually and gotten worse the past months. Its just so hard to distract when watching tv in itself is hard, and i get sad trying to listen to music because it just sounds so weird. I used to love listening to music!

For me, it's been around since October. 

However, I was deeply Depersonalised which lifted slightly when I switched from Prozac to Trazodone. 

 

I've been off Trazodone now for a couple of months since late March and it's ONLY been in the last couple of days where I've seen a window in my Depersonalisation and my thinking feeling more like mine and having more control. 

 

I'm still not a hundred percent, I'm still not getting my kick, but touch feels better, I can take in what's in front of me better. 

I actually had tears in my eyes just looking at sunlight. 

 

When all this is over, I will never take my feelings for granted again. 

This healing may take years - but trust me when I say I don't want to go back to what I was before because it was ******* miserable - I wanna look forwards, heal from the demons in the past and with some therapy put some demons in the dark. 

 

Stay strong Sofa. I think I've seen you on some various FB groups and I think I've even told you to PM me. 

You have my deepest sympathy and my upmost support. 

Meditate, accept this and learn to cry - this is just pain leaving the body - it's gonna take some time.