PupperMintPatty Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Hi, I'm currently 1.5 months into a CT from .5mg of Lorazepam daily for three weeks and 20mg of Citalopram daily for two weeks. I theorize that, because I was never on strong doses nor have I ever been on anything for too long, my recovery wont take as long as some of the more severe cases that I see on this site. However, I could be mistaken because I still see people suffer and go through a lot even if they'd just been on a drug for three weeks or so. This is something very concerning to me. Currently, I feel tired/fatigued frequently, I'm experiencing a decent amount of nerve pain especially on my right side in my mouth and scalp/ back of my head, muscle spasms that have improved significantly, tight and stiff neck, shortness of breath, tightness of chest, anxiety/ panic attacks, agorophobic tendencies, hypochondria tendencies, and extreme isolation. I don't speak to anyone unless I really need to. I feel like I'm doing significantly better now than where I was last year because I had more symptoms and the ones I just mentioned were more severe as well. I didn't know AD's could be so damaging and therefore reinstated but then freaked out after learning. Which is why I decided to quit CT because I felt concerned of taking them longer than the recommended time. Especially the Benzo since it was my first time ever taking one. I guess I just feel extremely lonely and isolated and severely misunderstood. I have a tendency to hide the fear and anxiety that I experience behind a mask of anger. I can exhibit very aggressive and socially violent behaviors at times and so do my best to remain calm and not be around people so much. I used to experience strong suicidal/ homicidal ideation but that's calmed a bit. However, I do get these "flares" in those feelings/ tendencies. I have a very strong will power and can white knuckle my way for a lengthy amount of time but I won't decline to say that I feel afraid. I don't know if I can make it through all the way this time but feel more hopeful now that I have the awareness of what's going on and what it might take. April to June 2015: Sertraline 2016 to 2019: Cocktail of drugs: Trazodone, Fluoxitine, and Venlafaxine. Several cold turkeys during this period of time. Didn't stay on any drugs consistently, missed many doses and wouldn't take any for longer than a month or two. June 2021: Gabapentin 800mg twice daily for a week then CT also AD that I'm having trouble remembering also only took for one week then CT May 2022: Lorazepam .5mg daily for three weeks then CT. Also Citalopram 20mg for 2 weeks then CT. July 1st 2022: about 1.5 months CT. Also decided to lower magnesium glycinate from 400mg to 200mg since I took note that it could interfere with recovery. Dec. 25th 2022: about 7 months CT. No significant set-backs. Worst symptoms are mild to moderate brain zaps, irritability, mild to moderate anxiety/depression, and mild to moderate nerve pain. Taking electrolytes as needed and only managing symptoms with a Carnivore woe, sunlight, exercise, water, and deep sleep. This marks nearly 3 months of Carnivore so far. Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted June 23, 2022 Moderator Share Posted June 23, 2022 Hi @PupperMintPatty, welcome to SA. Thank you for completing your signature. It helps us advise you better. It is hard to predict how long withdrawal will take for a specific person. Our bodies and histories of drugs are complex. We find that if you have taken many drugs before and you have gone on and off drugs you brain is more sensitized but that doesn't mean everybody will have a hard time if that was in their history. Did you experience withdrawal symptoms after you came off of your drugs before (in 2019 and 2021)? What were your symptoms like. Sometimes withdrawal symptoms are confused with 'return of the disorder', whatever that means. Why did you start taking the drugs in May? What were your symptoms before/during and after taking the drugs? How did they change? Did the drugs help in any way? Did they make things worse? SSRIs are known to cause suicidal ideation and violent tendencies in some people so those could be side effects for you. Since you are only 1.5 months from taking these drugs it may be possible to reinstate a very small dose of the drugs to help with withdrawal symptoms. Let me know if you would be interested in that and we may suggest a dose. You can read about it below. About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms - Symptoms and self-care - Surviving Antidepressants Withdrawal can increase anger and irritability in people. As well as enhance other emotions. https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/14397-neuro-emotions/page/15/#comment-598023 Here are some ways in which other members have dealt with these emotions. Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms - Symptoms and self-care - Surviving Antidepressants Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems - Symptoms and self-care - Surviving Antidepressants Have a look at the links and let me know if you have more questions or would like some help, OMW "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
PupperMintPatty Posted June 23, 2022 Author Share Posted June 23, 2022 @Onmyway I did experience withdrawal when I came off the drugs in 2019. I mostly remember lots of irritability and anxiety. However, in 2021 I began to experience more severe symptoms like nerve pain, pins and needles, incontinence, numbness from my waist down, difficulty with speech, extreme irritability, rage, depression, suicidal tendencies, easily heat exhausted, severe muscle weakness, I couldn't walk straight and lost my balance frequently, anhedonia. My symptoms before May of this year were extreme hopelessness and despair, I had an impending sense of doom, I was terrified to go to sleep because I was convinced I wasn't going to wake up the next morning, fatigue, coldness in hand and feet, low grade fever, and what seems like Akathisia. During the Meds, I felt extremely suicidal to the point where I felt that I just couldn't stop contemplating it, I began to develop paranoid tendencies again (when I was originally put on SSRIs at 17 years old I was afraid to approach windows for fear of being sniped by someone in the trees since I live in a foresty area) this had returned, I would zone out a lot, felt like a vegetable. After I quit CT I developed extreme anxiety, restlessness, depression, agitation, irritability, I'd wake up in the middle of my sleep sweating and in fear, brain zaps. I began taking the drugs in may because I wasn't eating, showering and was basically just not taking care of myself at all. The Lorazepam initially helped me feel calm but I built a tolerance and dependency quickly and it soon became ineffective. The citalopram gave me this fake happy feeling which led me to feel extremely suicidal. As for reinstating, I don't feel sure about that. I have contemplated it, especially since I've heard that Recovery Can take longer if you go Cold Turkey, but I have heard of cases where that doesn't always happen. My main fear is that old symptoms will reappear and worsen to the point where I just can't handle it and am forced to check myself into the ER again because that seems to happen every few to several months or so. I usually am able to sleep which I believe helps. I was also on Keto for a whole year but it was odd because I felt better but still bad at the same time. April to June 2015: Sertraline 2016 to 2019: Cocktail of drugs: Trazodone, Fluoxitine, and Venlafaxine. Several cold turkeys during this period of time. Didn't stay on any drugs consistently, missed many doses and wouldn't take any for longer than a month or two. June 2021: Gabapentin 800mg twice daily for a week then CT also AD that I'm having trouble remembering also only took for one week then CT May 2022: Lorazepam .5mg daily for three weeks then CT. Also Citalopram 20mg for 2 weeks then CT. July 1st 2022: about 1.5 months CT. Also decided to lower magnesium glycinate from 400mg to 200mg since I took note that it could interfere with recovery. Dec. 25th 2022: about 7 months CT. No significant set-backs. Worst symptoms are mild to moderate brain zaps, irritability, mild to moderate anxiety/depression, and mild to moderate nerve pain. Taking electrolytes as needed and only managing symptoms with a Carnivore woe, sunlight, exercise, water, and deep sleep. This marks nearly 3 months of Carnivore so far. Link to comment
Ariel Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Hi @PupperMintPatty Welcome to SA. Just wanted to say hello and let you know how much I love your profile name! Makes me smile every time, so thank you. Best of luck to you on your healing journey, A. 1 1996-2018 - misc. polypharmacy, incl. SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics, lithium, benzos, stimulants, antihistamines, etc. (approx. 30+ drugs) 2012-2018 - 10mg lexapro/escitalopram (20mg?) Jan. 2018 - 10mg -> 5mg, then from 5mg -> 2.5mg, then 0mg --> July 2018 - 0mg 2017(?)-2020 - vyvanse/lisdexamfetamine 60-70mg 2020-2021 - 70mg down to 0mg --> July 2021 - 0mg March-April 2021 - vortioxetine 5-10mg (approx. 7 weeks total; CT) --> April 28th, 2021 - 0mg August 2021 - 2mg melatonin August 1, 2022 - 1mg melatonin March 31, 2023 - 0mg melatonin 2024 supplements update: electrolyte blend in water sipped throughout the day; 1 tsp fish oil blend w/ morning meal (incl. vit. A+D+E); calcium; vitamin C+zinc Courage is fear that has said its prayers. - Karle Wilson Baker love and justice are not two. without inner change, there can be no outer change; without collective change, no change matters. - Rev. angel Kyodo williams Holding multiple truths. Knowing that everyone has their own accurate view of the way things are. - text on homemade banner at Afiya house I am not a medical professional; this is not medical advice. Link to comment
PupperMintPatty Posted June 23, 2022 Author Share Posted June 23, 2022 @Ariel Hi, and Thanks for the support. April to June 2015: Sertraline 2016 to 2019: Cocktail of drugs: Trazodone, Fluoxitine, and Venlafaxine. Several cold turkeys during this period of time. Didn't stay on any drugs consistently, missed many doses and wouldn't take any for longer than a month or two. June 2021: Gabapentin 800mg twice daily for a week then CT also AD that I'm having trouble remembering also only took for one week then CT May 2022: Lorazepam .5mg daily for three weeks then CT. Also Citalopram 20mg for 2 weeks then CT. July 1st 2022: about 1.5 months CT. Also decided to lower magnesium glycinate from 400mg to 200mg since I took note that it could interfere with recovery. Dec. 25th 2022: about 7 months CT. No significant set-backs. Worst symptoms are mild to moderate brain zaps, irritability, mild to moderate anxiety/depression, and mild to moderate nerve pain. Taking electrolytes as needed and only managing symptoms with a Carnivore woe, sunlight, exercise, water, and deep sleep. This marks nearly 3 months of Carnivore so far. Link to comment
PupperMintPatty Posted June 24, 2022 Author Share Posted June 24, 2022 I'm currently a little over 6 weeks CT from Citalopram and Lorazepam. I'm feeling restless, anxious and scared. I've been experiencing lots of intrusive thoughts since last night over wanting to end myself. I didn't sleep well last night. I wasn't able to go into deep sleep so I think that's messing with me today. My relationships with loved ones are heavily strained and I feel that I can't connect with anyone. Still unsure about continuing CT but afraid to reinstate. I've been contemplating getting back on Keto and also trying the Lion diet by Mikhaila Peterson to see if that helps. April to June 2015: Sertraline 2016 to 2019: Cocktail of drugs: Trazodone, Fluoxitine, and Venlafaxine. Several cold turkeys during this period of time. Didn't stay on any drugs consistently, missed many doses and wouldn't take any for longer than a month or two. June 2021: Gabapentin 800mg twice daily for a week then CT also AD that I'm having trouble remembering also only took for one week then CT May 2022: Lorazepam .5mg daily for three weeks then CT. Also Citalopram 20mg for 2 weeks then CT. July 1st 2022: about 1.5 months CT. Also decided to lower magnesium glycinate from 400mg to 200mg since I took note that it could interfere with recovery. Dec. 25th 2022: about 7 months CT. No significant set-backs. Worst symptoms are mild to moderate brain zaps, irritability, mild to moderate anxiety/depression, and mild to moderate nerve pain. Taking electrolytes as needed and only managing symptoms with a Carnivore woe, sunlight, exercise, water, and deep sleep. This marks nearly 3 months of Carnivore so far. Link to comment
PupperMintPatty Posted June 24, 2022 Author Share Posted June 24, 2022 @OnmywayDo you think reinstating is a good idea at this point? I know it can be like a gamble but am also aware that CT can take much longer to recover from. How would I go about it since I was on both Lorazepam and Citalopram? April to June 2015: Sertraline 2016 to 2019: Cocktail of drugs: Trazodone, Fluoxitine, and Venlafaxine. Several cold turkeys during this period of time. Didn't stay on any drugs consistently, missed many doses and wouldn't take any for longer than a month or two. June 2021: Gabapentin 800mg twice daily for a week then CT also AD that I'm having trouble remembering also only took for one week then CT May 2022: Lorazepam .5mg daily for three weeks then CT. Also Citalopram 20mg for 2 weeks then CT. July 1st 2022: about 1.5 months CT. Also decided to lower magnesium glycinate from 400mg to 200mg since I took note that it could interfere with recovery. Dec. 25th 2022: about 7 months CT. No significant set-backs. Worst symptoms are mild to moderate brain zaps, irritability, mild to moderate anxiety/depression, and mild to moderate nerve pain. Taking electrolytes as needed and only managing symptoms with a Carnivore woe, sunlight, exercise, water, and deep sleep. This marks nearly 3 months of Carnivore so far. Link to comment
PupperMintPatty Posted June 24, 2022 Author Share Posted June 24, 2022 I really need advice for reinstating. I'm currently 1.5 months into CT withdrawal but I'm not sure that it's the best idea for me to continue. Anyone here that can help? April to June 2015: Sertraline 2016 to 2019: Cocktail of drugs: Trazodone, Fluoxitine, and Venlafaxine. Several cold turkeys during this period of time. Didn't stay on any drugs consistently, missed many doses and wouldn't take any for longer than a month or two. June 2021: Gabapentin 800mg twice daily for a week then CT also AD that I'm having trouble remembering also only took for one week then CT May 2022: Lorazepam .5mg daily for three weeks then CT. Also Citalopram 20mg for 2 weeks then CT. July 1st 2022: about 1.5 months CT. Also decided to lower magnesium glycinate from 400mg to 200mg since I took note that it could interfere with recovery. Dec. 25th 2022: about 7 months CT. No significant set-backs. Worst symptoms are mild to moderate brain zaps, irritability, mild to moderate anxiety/depression, and mild to moderate nerve pain. Taking electrolytes as needed and only managing symptoms with a Carnivore woe, sunlight, exercise, water, and deep sleep. This marks nearly 3 months of Carnivore so far. Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted June 24, 2022 Moderator Share Posted June 24, 2022 Hi @PupperMintPatty, have you read in detail the link to the reinstating thread? Reinstatement does carry a risk because you may be too sensitive to the drugs but it can also be helpful. We won't know which one until you actually do it. If you do decide to reinstate then we would advise a very small dose - maybe 1mg of citalopram and/or 0.1mg of lorazepam. You can start by reinstating 0.1 mg of lorazepam and then wait for a few days to see how you react. If it is not sufficient we can try to add citalopram. Let me check with the other moderators as well to see what their advice is. OMW "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
PupperMintPatty Posted June 24, 2022 Author Share Posted June 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Onmyway said: Hi @PupperMintPatty, have you read in detail the link to the reinstating thread? Reinstatement does carry a risk because you may be too sensitive to the drugs but it can also be helpful. We won't know which one until you actually do it. If you do decide to reinstate then we would advise a very small dose - maybe 1mg of citalopram and/or 0.1mg of lorazepam. You can start by reinstating 0.1 mg of lorazepam and then wait for a few days to see how you react. If it is not sufficient we can try to add citalopram. Let me check with the other moderators as well to see what their advice is. OMW Wouldn't it be better to stay away from Lorazepam since it is a Benzo? And just reinstate Citalopram? Thanks for responding. April to June 2015: Sertraline 2016 to 2019: Cocktail of drugs: Trazodone, Fluoxitine, and Venlafaxine. Several cold turkeys during this period of time. Didn't stay on any drugs consistently, missed many doses and wouldn't take any for longer than a month or two. June 2021: Gabapentin 800mg twice daily for a week then CT also AD that I'm having trouble remembering also only took for one week then CT May 2022: Lorazepam .5mg daily for three weeks then CT. Also Citalopram 20mg for 2 weeks then CT. July 1st 2022: about 1.5 months CT. Also decided to lower magnesium glycinate from 400mg to 200mg since I took note that it could interfere with recovery. Dec. 25th 2022: about 7 months CT. No significant set-backs. Worst symptoms are mild to moderate brain zaps, irritability, mild to moderate anxiety/depression, and mild to moderate nerve pain. Taking electrolytes as needed and only managing symptoms with a Carnivore woe, sunlight, exercise, water, and deep sleep. This marks nearly 3 months of Carnivore so far. Link to comment
PupperMintPatty Posted June 24, 2022 Author Share Posted June 24, 2022 @Onmyway Please, get back to me asap. I know it's important to reinstate as soon as possible. I'm just not sure if it's better to do both. My doctors seem really hesitant in prescribing Lorazepam. April to June 2015: Sertraline 2016 to 2019: Cocktail of drugs: Trazodone, Fluoxitine, and Venlafaxine. Several cold turkeys during this period of time. Didn't stay on any drugs consistently, missed many doses and wouldn't take any for longer than a month or two. June 2021: Gabapentin 800mg twice daily for a week then CT also AD that I'm having trouble remembering also only took for one week then CT May 2022: Lorazepam .5mg daily for three weeks then CT. Also Citalopram 20mg for 2 weeks then CT. July 1st 2022: about 1.5 months CT. Also decided to lower magnesium glycinate from 400mg to 200mg since I took note that it could interfere with recovery. Dec. 25th 2022: about 7 months CT. No significant set-backs. Worst symptoms are mild to moderate brain zaps, irritability, mild to moderate anxiety/depression, and mild to moderate nerve pain. Taking electrolytes as needed and only managing symptoms with a Carnivore woe, sunlight, exercise, water, and deep sleep. This marks nearly 3 months of Carnivore so far. Link to comment
PupperMintPatty Posted June 24, 2022 Author Share Posted June 24, 2022 @Onmyway I just ordered the Citalopram through my local pharmacy. They're 20mg tablets. How do I make then into a solution so I'm only taking 1mg? April to June 2015: Sertraline 2016 to 2019: Cocktail of drugs: Trazodone, Fluoxitine, and Venlafaxine. Several cold turkeys during this period of time. Didn't stay on any drugs consistently, missed many doses and wouldn't take any for longer than a month or two. June 2021: Gabapentin 800mg twice daily for a week then CT also AD that I'm having trouble remembering also only took for one week then CT May 2022: Lorazepam .5mg daily for three weeks then CT. Also Citalopram 20mg for 2 weeks then CT. July 1st 2022: about 1.5 months CT. Also decided to lower magnesium glycinate from 400mg to 200mg since I took note that it could interfere with recovery. Dec. 25th 2022: about 7 months CT. No significant set-backs. Worst symptoms are mild to moderate brain zaps, irritability, mild to moderate anxiety/depression, and mild to moderate nerve pain. Taking electrolytes as needed and only managing symptoms with a Carnivore woe, sunlight, exercise, water, and deep sleep. This marks nearly 3 months of Carnivore so far. Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted June 25, 2022 Moderator Share Posted June 25, 2022 Ok, if your doctor won't prescribe lorazepam then your only choice is to reinstate citalopram. Try a 1mg, see how it makes you feel in a week. If it makes you feel better but not sufficiently better we can increase by a bit. If it makes you feel really bad after a week then we will stop that. It will mean that you are not a candidate for reinstatement and will have to ride it out. This will help you figure out how to get a low dose of citalopram "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted June 25, 2022 Moderator Share Posted June 25, 2022 I suggested lorazepam because it is more calming - in terms of physiological dependence we now know that ADs are just as prone to causing dependence as benzos but they do not cause tolerance as readily where you have to increase the dosage as far as we understand. Doctors denied benzo addiction and tolerance just as they are denying that for ADs at the time btw. "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
PupperMintPatty Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 13 minutes ago, Onmyway said: I suggested lorazepam because it is more calming - in terms of physiological dependence we now know that ADs are just as prone to causing dependence as benzos but they do not cause tolerance as readily where you have to increase the dosage as far as we understand. Doctors denied benzo addiction and tolerance just as they are denying that for ADs at the time btw. But reinstating the Citalopram could bring relief to the symptoms I'm experiencing right? I'm currently in bed most of the day, watching TV, and surfing this site and have come across how reckless CT can be. I've tried several CT's in the past and I seem to make it to the one year mark and then feel forced to reinstate. So I'm wondering if it's probably best that I just reinstate and taper off. April to June 2015: Sertraline 2016 to 2019: Cocktail of drugs: Trazodone, Fluoxitine, and Venlafaxine. Several cold turkeys during this period of time. Didn't stay on any drugs consistently, missed many doses and wouldn't take any for longer than a month or two. June 2021: Gabapentin 800mg twice daily for a week then CT also AD that I'm having trouble remembering also only took for one week then CT May 2022: Lorazepam .5mg daily for three weeks then CT. Also Citalopram 20mg for 2 weeks then CT. July 1st 2022: about 1.5 months CT. Also decided to lower magnesium glycinate from 400mg to 200mg since I took note that it could interfere with recovery. Dec. 25th 2022: about 7 months CT. No significant set-backs. Worst symptoms are mild to moderate brain zaps, irritability, mild to moderate anxiety/depression, and mild to moderate nerve pain. Taking electrolytes as needed and only managing symptoms with a Carnivore woe, sunlight, exercise, water, and deep sleep. This marks nearly 3 months of Carnivore so far. Link to comment
PupperMintPatty Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 Experiencing a window today after feeling really on edge yesterday. I wonder what this means in terms of healing? Is it unusual to experience windows this early on after a 1.5 month CT? April to June 2015: Sertraline 2016 to 2019: Cocktail of drugs: Trazodone, Fluoxitine, and Venlafaxine. Several cold turkeys during this period of time. Didn't stay on any drugs consistently, missed many doses and wouldn't take any for longer than a month or two. June 2021: Gabapentin 800mg twice daily for a week then CT also AD that I'm having trouble remembering also only took for one week then CT May 2022: Lorazepam .5mg daily for three weeks then CT. Also Citalopram 20mg for 2 weeks then CT. July 1st 2022: about 1.5 months CT. Also decided to lower magnesium glycinate from 400mg to 200mg since I took note that it could interfere with recovery. Dec. 25th 2022: about 7 months CT. No significant set-backs. Worst symptoms are mild to moderate brain zaps, irritability, mild to moderate anxiety/depression, and mild to moderate nerve pain. Taking electrolytes as needed and only managing symptoms with a Carnivore woe, sunlight, exercise, water, and deep sleep. This marks nearly 3 months of Carnivore so far. Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted June 25, 2022 Moderator Share Posted June 25, 2022 (edited) Hi @PupperMintPatty, the general answer is that everyone is unique and we don't know how their WD experience will progress. More specific answers will be on the respective threads - I don't know everything about every symptom. I highly recommend the Windows and Waves thread or the other threads in the Symptoms forum. Hope this helps, OMW Edited June 25, 2022 by Onmyway "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted June 25, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted June 25, 2022 I found this helpful: Video: Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery On 12/27/2015 at 6:37 AM, Altostrata said: Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are [...] to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work. It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were [...] to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and [...] to work in the building! You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while [...] is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves. The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made. * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Shep Posted June 26, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted June 26, 2022 On 6/23/2022 at 2:53 AM, PupperMintPatty said: I usually am able to sleep which I believe helps. On 6/23/2022 at 8:00 PM, PupperMintPatty said: I didn't sleep well last night. I wasn't able to go into deep sleep so I think that's messing with me today. On 6/24/2022 at 8:37 PM, PupperMintPatty said: I'm currently in bed most of the day, watching TV, and surfing this site and have come across how reckless CT can be. I've tried several CT's in the past and I seem to make it to the one year mark and then feel forced to reinstate. So I'm wondering if it's probably best that I just reinstate and taper off. On 6/25/2022 at 1:49 AM, PupperMintPatty said: Experiencing a window today after feeling really on edge yesterday. I wonder what this means in terms of healing? Is it unusual to experience windows this early on after a 1.5 month CT? PupperMintPatty, I pulled a few quotes from your recent posts in order to ask a few questions. It looks like you were sleeping up until a couple of nights ago. Is that correct? And then you went for 2 or 3 nights without much sleep. This can cause anyone to feel like they're spinning out of control. Before you stopped sleeping, were you spending the day watching TV and reading sites on the internet? Or did you take to your bed with this recent episode of insomnia? Since your last post mentions a window, did you get some sleep? When looking at the healing process, it can be helpful to look at your "overall" healing. Do you feel better now than you felt back in May when you went CT? What day in May did you stop taking both your drugs? The reason I ask is that the best reinstatement timeframe for a benzo is within a month of coming off (you have several months to safely reinstate an antidepressant). You mention you might not be able to get more benzos prescribed, so that may be the determining factor in your decision, but I wanted to give you all of the information we have on this. Here is more information: Benzo - Notes on Reinstatement Sorry for bombarding you with questions, but knowing this information can help us guide you in whether or not a reinstatement is the best course of action. Link to comment
PupperMintPatty Posted June 26, 2022 Author Share Posted June 26, 2022 41 minutes ago, Shep said: PupperMintPatty, I pulled a few quotes from your recent posts in order to ask a few questions. It looks like you were sleeping up until a couple of nights ago. Is that correct? And then you went for 2 or 3 nights without much sleep. This can cause anyone to feel like they're spinning out of control. Before you stopped sleeping, were you spending the day watching TV and reading sites on the internet? Or did you take to your bed with this recent episode of insomnia? Since your last post mentions a window, did you get some sleep? When looking at the healing process, it can be helpful to look at your "overall" healing. Do you feel better now than you felt back in May when you went CT? What day in May did you stop taking both your drugs? The reason I ask is that the best reinstatement timeframe for a benzo is within a month of coming off (you have several months to safely reinstate an antidepressant). You mention you might not be able to get more benzos prescribed, so that may be the determining factor in your decision, but I wanted to give you all of the information we have on this. Here is more information: Benzo - Notes on Reinstatement Sorry for bombarding you with questions, but knowing this information can help us guide you in whether or not a reinstatement is the best course of action. Hi Shep, thank you so much for replying I'm more than happy to answer your questions. 1. My sleep patterns are a bit weird. I think I'm sleeping most nights but I have had a handful of nights (maybe 5 or so) where I've really struggled to enter deep sleep or got less than 5 hours of rest. 2. I spend a lot of my days watching TV and doing research on the internet but do make the effort to sleep even if I feel really anxious. I go to bed anywhere between 10 pm to 12 am and lie there watching videos until I feel tired or decide to put the phone down and attempt to sleep. 3. Yes, I have gotten sleep since my last window. Last night I slept about 5 hours. 4. I believe I do feel better compared to how I felt when I quit CT in May. I immediately experienced withdrawal and went into a windows/ waves pattern. 5. I stopped taking both drugs on May 10th, 2022. April to June 2015: Sertraline 2016 to 2019: Cocktail of drugs: Trazodone, Fluoxitine, and Venlafaxine. Several cold turkeys during this period of time. Didn't stay on any drugs consistently, missed many doses and wouldn't take any for longer than a month or two. June 2021: Gabapentin 800mg twice daily for a week then CT also AD that I'm having trouble remembering also only took for one week then CT May 2022: Lorazepam .5mg daily for three weeks then CT. Also Citalopram 20mg for 2 weeks then CT. July 1st 2022: about 1.5 months CT. Also decided to lower magnesium glycinate from 400mg to 200mg since I took note that it could interfere with recovery. Dec. 25th 2022: about 7 months CT. No significant set-backs. Worst symptoms are mild to moderate brain zaps, irritability, mild to moderate anxiety/depression, and mild to moderate nerve pain. Taking electrolytes as needed and only managing symptoms with a Carnivore woe, sunlight, exercise, water, and deep sleep. This marks nearly 3 months of Carnivore so far. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Shep Posted June 26, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted June 26, 2022 @PupperMintPatty Thanks for your answers. I'm wondering if you might be better served not reinstating and instead, adding in some fish oil along with the magnesium you're currently taking to see if that helps calm the nervous system. We don't recommend a lot of supplements, as many members report their nervous systems are simply too fragile to handle them. However, magnesium and fish oil tend to be calming to the nervous system and many people report they do help. Please only add in one supplement at a time and at a small dose to see if your nervous system can tolerate it. For more, please see: King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker It's been about 6 weeks since you stopped the drugs, so reinstating the benzo is riskier than reinstating the antidepressant at this point. But with only two weeks on the citalopam, I'm not sure how much that drug is really playing into your symptoms, which may be the withdrawals you've had in the past catching up to you. There's something called "nervous system kindling." Kindling is trauma to the nervous system from repeated exposure to psychotropic drugs, especially with abrupt changes. You may also want to check out the tips here to help with sleep: Tips to help sleep: so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia Wearing a sleep mask, wearing blue-blocking glasses, and keeping to a regular daily routine and bedtime can all be helpful in getting a better night's sleep. 18 minutes ago, PupperMintPatty said: I spend a lot of my days watching TV and doing research on the internet but do make the effort to sleep even if I feel really anxious. I go to bed anywhere between 10 pm to 12 am and lie there watching videos until I feel tired or decide to put the phone down and attempt to sleep. Are you getting any exercise? A gentle walk in the sunshine, especially in nature, can be very helpful. If you're watching videos and looking at your cell phone, you may be disrupting your sleep cycle. Try avoiding screens for a couple of hours before bed and perhaps read or work a jigsaw puzzle until bedtime and see if your sleep improves. If you have an iPod or an MP3 player, you can download podcasts to listen to in the evening. I've downloaded a lot of old radio shows I've found on YouTube, converted them to MP3's, and saved them on an old iPod Nano to listen to in the evenings in order to avoid screens. How is your appetite? Are you eating healthy foods, avoiding alcohol, sugar, and too many carbs? Are you getting enough lean protein and drinking plenty of water? Low blood sugar from not eating and dehydration can also cause some of the same symptoms of withdrawal. Please post your thoughts - do you think these kinds of things might be better to do before trying a reinstatement? Link to comment
PupperMintPatty Posted June 26, 2022 Author Share Posted June 26, 2022 1 hour ago, Shep said: @PupperMintPatty Thanks for your answers. I'm wondering if you might be better served not reinstating and instead, adding in some fish oil along with the magnesium you're currently taking to see if that helps calm the nervous system. We don't recommend a lot of supplements, as many members report their nervous systems are simply too fragile to handle them. However, magnesium and fish oil tend to be calming to the nervous system and many people report they do help. Please only add in one supplement at a time and at a small dose to see if your nervous system can tolerate it. For more, please see: King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker It's been about 6 weeks since you stopped the drugs, so reinstating the benzo is riskier than reinstating the antidepressant at this point. But with only two weeks on the citalopam, I'm not sure how much that drug is really playing into your symptoms, which may be the withdrawals you've had in the past catching up to you. There's something called "nervous system kindling." Kindling is trauma to the nervous system from repeated exposure to psychotropic drugs, especially with abrupt changes. You may also want to check out the tips here to help with sleep: Tips to help sleep: so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia Wearing a sleep mask, wearing blue-blocking glasses, and keeping to a regular daily routine and bedtime can all be helpful in getting a better night's sleep. Are you getting any exercise? A gentle walk in the sunshine, especially in nature, can be very helpful. If you're watching videos and looking at your cell phone, you may be disrupting your sleep cycle. Try avoiding screens for a couple of hours before bed and perhaps read or work a jigsaw puzzle until bedtime and see if your sleep improves. If you have an iPod or an MP3 player, you can download podcasts to listen to in the evening. I've downloaded a lot of old radio shows I've found on YouTube, converted them to MP3's, and saved them on an old iPod Nano to listen to in the evenings in order to avoid screens. How is your appetite? Are you eating healthy foods, avoiding alcohol, sugar, and too many carbs? Are you getting enough lean protein and drinking plenty of water? Low blood sugar from not eating and dehydration can also cause some of the same symptoms of withdrawal. Please post your thoughts - do you think these kinds of things might be better to do before trying a reinstatement? Thank you for being so kind and understanding. I struggle with immense loneliness and you're making a difference in that. 1. I do get exercise by walking for about 20 to 30 mins every day. 2. My appetite isn't great but I make sure to eat anyway. I know people struggle with swallowing and eating but I can actually eat despite not having an appetite. 3. I'm currently following the Lion Diet by Mikhaila Peterson. I've done KETO in the past which did help me feel better but I decided to come off because I felt it was having a negative effect on me mentally and emotionally. However, Lion/Carnivore isn't the same in that you eliminate Carbs 100% so I'm thinking this will make a positive difference. 4. I think I'd rather continue CT rather than reinstating. The only reason I kept reinstating was because I didn't know it was the drugs causing the symptoms and distress the whole time. I was scared and the people that I live with don't believe nor support me. When I go to them for help they just tell me that I'm mentally ill and need to be medicated which is very stressful and heart breaking. April to June 2015: Sertraline 2016 to 2019: Cocktail of drugs: Trazodone, Fluoxitine, and Venlafaxine. Several cold turkeys during this period of time. Didn't stay on any drugs consistently, missed many doses and wouldn't take any for longer than a month or two. June 2021: Gabapentin 800mg twice daily for a week then CT also AD that I'm having trouble remembering also only took for one week then CT May 2022: Lorazepam .5mg daily for three weeks then CT. Also Citalopram 20mg for 2 weeks then CT. July 1st 2022: about 1.5 months CT. Also decided to lower magnesium glycinate from 400mg to 200mg since I took note that it could interfere with recovery. Dec. 25th 2022: about 7 months CT. No significant set-backs. Worst symptoms are mild to moderate brain zaps, irritability, mild to moderate anxiety/depression, and mild to moderate nerve pain. Taking electrolytes as needed and only managing symptoms with a Carnivore woe, sunlight, exercise, water, and deep sleep. This marks nearly 3 months of Carnivore so far. Link to comment
Ariel Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 2 minutes ago, PupperMintPatty said: I was scared and the people that I live with don't believe nor support me. When I go to them for help they just tell me that I'm mentally ill and need to be medicated which is very stressful and heart breaking. I'm really sorry to hear this, @PupperMintPatty Sending you a big HUG 1 1996-2018 - misc. polypharmacy, incl. SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics, lithium, benzos, stimulants, antihistamines, etc. (approx. 30+ drugs) 2012-2018 - 10mg lexapro/escitalopram (20mg?) Jan. 2018 - 10mg -> 5mg, then from 5mg -> 2.5mg, then 0mg --> July 2018 - 0mg 2017(?)-2020 - vyvanse/lisdexamfetamine 60-70mg 2020-2021 - 70mg down to 0mg --> July 2021 - 0mg March-April 2021 - vortioxetine 5-10mg (approx. 7 weeks total; CT) --> April 28th, 2021 - 0mg August 2021 - 2mg melatonin August 1, 2022 - 1mg melatonin March 31, 2023 - 0mg melatonin 2024 supplements update: electrolyte blend in water sipped throughout the day; 1 tsp fish oil blend w/ morning meal (incl. vit. A+D+E); calcium; vitamin C+zinc Courage is fear that has said its prayers. - Karle Wilson Baker love and justice are not two. without inner change, there can be no outer change; without collective change, no change matters. - Rev. angel Kyodo williams Holding multiple truths. Knowing that everyone has their own accurate view of the way things are. - text on homemade banner at Afiya house I am not a medical professional; this is not medical advice. Link to comment
PupperMintPatty Posted June 26, 2022 Author Share Posted June 26, 2022 2 minutes ago, Ariel said: I'm really sorry to hear this, @PupperMintPatty Sending you a big HUG Yeah, I love my family despite their lack of understanding. It feels like hell but I still love them. I'm extremely loyal and it's extremely painful to not be able to connect with them or hang out. I really want my life back and to reconnect with the people I love but for now that really seems not possible. Thank you for being so kind. It really does help. April to June 2015: Sertraline 2016 to 2019: Cocktail of drugs: Trazodone, Fluoxitine, and Venlafaxine. Several cold turkeys during this period of time. Didn't stay on any drugs consistently, missed many doses and wouldn't take any for longer than a month or two. June 2021: Gabapentin 800mg twice daily for a week then CT also AD that I'm having trouble remembering also only took for one week then CT May 2022: Lorazepam .5mg daily for three weeks then CT. Also Citalopram 20mg for 2 weeks then CT. July 1st 2022: about 1.5 months CT. Also decided to lower magnesium glycinate from 400mg to 200mg since I took note that it could interfere with recovery. Dec. 25th 2022: about 7 months CT. No significant set-backs. Worst symptoms are mild to moderate brain zaps, irritability, mild to moderate anxiety/depression, and mild to moderate nerve pain. Taking electrolytes as needed and only managing symptoms with a Carnivore woe, sunlight, exercise, water, and deep sleep. This marks nearly 3 months of Carnivore so far. Link to comment
Ariel Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 Just now, PupperMintPatty said: Yeah, I love my family despite their lack of understanding. It feels like hell but I still love them. I'm extremely loyal and it's extremely painful to not be able to connect with them or hang out. I really want my life back and to reconnect with the people I love but for now that really seems not possible. I hear you. I think many of us can relate. WD can be a very lonely, isolating experience. That's one of the ways in which SA is such a godsend. For now you just have to do what you need to do to get through this. If that means protecting yourself from undue stress and spending more time alone, then maybe that's the lesser of two imperfect scenarios right now. Only you can know -- listen to your needs and put yourself first, even if that risks making you temporarily unpopular. Do you have any pets? Or anywhere you can go to be with animals, or even just in nature surroundings with trees? That can make a big difference, I find. Take gentle care of yourself and hang in there. You are very brave. It gets better <3 1 1996-2018 - misc. polypharmacy, incl. SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics, lithium, benzos, stimulants, antihistamines, etc. (approx. 30+ drugs) 2012-2018 - 10mg lexapro/escitalopram (20mg?) Jan. 2018 - 10mg -> 5mg, then from 5mg -> 2.5mg, then 0mg --> July 2018 - 0mg 2017(?)-2020 - vyvanse/lisdexamfetamine 60-70mg 2020-2021 - 70mg down to 0mg --> July 2021 - 0mg March-April 2021 - vortioxetine 5-10mg (approx. 7 weeks total; CT) --> April 28th, 2021 - 0mg August 2021 - 2mg melatonin August 1, 2022 - 1mg melatonin March 31, 2023 - 0mg melatonin 2024 supplements update: electrolyte blend in water sipped throughout the day; 1 tsp fish oil blend w/ morning meal (incl. vit. A+D+E); calcium; vitamin C+zinc Courage is fear that has said its prayers. - Karle Wilson Baker love and justice are not two. without inner change, there can be no outer change; without collective change, no change matters. - Rev. angel Kyodo williams Holding multiple truths. Knowing that everyone has their own accurate view of the way things are. - text on homemade banner at Afiya house I am not a medical professional; this is not medical advice. Link to comment
PupperMintPatty Posted June 26, 2022 Author Share Posted June 26, 2022 1 minute ago, Ariel said: I hear you. I think many of us can relate. WD can be a very lonely, isolating experience. That's one of the ways in which SA is such a godsend. For now you just have to do what you need to do to get through this. If that means protecting yourself from undue stress and spending more time alone, then maybe that's the lesser of two imperfect scenarios right now. Only you can know -- listen to your needs and put yourself first, even if that risks making you temporarily unpopular. Do you have any pets? Or anywhere you can go to be with animals, or even just in nature surroundings with trees? That can make a big difference, I find. Take gentle care of yourself and hang in there. You are very brave. It gets better ❤️ Yes, I have a dog. His name is Bear and I also live in a foresty area with lots of birds. I'm doing my best to take care but I do lose my edge at times and freak out/ panic over potentially having something else wrong with me. But deep down inside I truly do believe it's been withdrawal the whole time. I'm glad this website was created and that I finally decided to educate myself because I was in the blind for so long. One of things that really stresses me out is my finances because I maxed out two credit cards and feel that I just can't hold a job right now. I also owe the IRS tax money and freak out about being thrown in jail for not paying it off. I feel this only makes things much harder but have finally decided to stop fighting it and just let it be for now. I need to prioritize my health and then get to paying all of that once I'm healed and feeling better. April to June 2015: Sertraline 2016 to 2019: Cocktail of drugs: Trazodone, Fluoxitine, and Venlafaxine. Several cold turkeys during this period of time. Didn't stay on any drugs consistently, missed many doses and wouldn't take any for longer than a month or two. June 2021: Gabapentin 800mg twice daily for a week then CT also AD that I'm having trouble remembering also only took for one week then CT May 2022: Lorazepam .5mg daily for three weeks then CT. Also Citalopram 20mg for 2 weeks then CT. July 1st 2022: about 1.5 months CT. Also decided to lower magnesium glycinate from 400mg to 200mg since I took note that it could interfere with recovery. Dec. 25th 2022: about 7 months CT. No significant set-backs. Worst symptoms are mild to moderate brain zaps, irritability, mild to moderate anxiety/depression, and mild to moderate nerve pain. Taking electrolytes as needed and only managing symptoms with a Carnivore woe, sunlight, exercise, water, and deep sleep. This marks nearly 3 months of Carnivore so far. Link to comment
Ariel Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 2 minutes ago, PupperMintPatty said: Yes, I have a dog. His name is Bear and I also live in a foresty area with lots of birds. Glad to hear this, PupperMintPatty. Bear is a great name. Such companions and nature can be of invaluable help to us on our healing journeys. 3 minutes ago, PupperMintPatty said: I'm doing my best to take care but I do lose my edge at times and freak out/ panic over potentially having something else wrong with me. But deep down inside I truly do believe it's been withdrawal the whole time. I'm glad this website was created and that I finally decided to educate myself because I was in the blind for so long. One of things that really stresses me out is my finances because I maxed out two credit cards and feel that I just can't hold a job right now. I also owe the IRS tax money and freak out about being thrown in jail for not paying it off. I feel this only makes things much harder but have finally decided to stop fighting it and just let it be for now. I need to prioritize my health and then get to paying all of that once I'm healed and feeling better. It's good that you are prioritizing your health. One of the big challenges in WD is how it can affect our whole lives, incl. health, social relationships, finances, etc. Anything you can do to limit undue stress will help facilitate rest and recovery. Take care of yourself and any urgent responsibilities (so as not to make things worse for yourself down the line); beyond that give yourself lots of time and space to heal. Wishing you the very best of luck on your healing journey <3 1 1996-2018 - misc. polypharmacy, incl. SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics, lithium, benzos, stimulants, antihistamines, etc. (approx. 30+ drugs) 2012-2018 - 10mg lexapro/escitalopram (20mg?) Jan. 2018 - 10mg -> 5mg, then from 5mg -> 2.5mg, then 0mg --> July 2018 - 0mg 2017(?)-2020 - vyvanse/lisdexamfetamine 60-70mg 2020-2021 - 70mg down to 0mg --> July 2021 - 0mg March-April 2021 - vortioxetine 5-10mg (approx. 7 weeks total; CT) --> April 28th, 2021 - 0mg August 2021 - 2mg melatonin August 1, 2022 - 1mg melatonin March 31, 2023 - 0mg melatonin 2024 supplements update: electrolyte blend in water sipped throughout the day; 1 tsp fish oil blend w/ morning meal (incl. vit. A+D+E); calcium; vitamin C+zinc Courage is fear that has said its prayers. - Karle Wilson Baker love and justice are not two. without inner change, there can be no outer change; without collective change, no change matters. - Rev. angel Kyodo williams Holding multiple truths. Knowing that everyone has their own accurate view of the way things are. - text on homemade banner at Afiya house I am not a medical professional; this is not medical advice. Link to comment
PupperMintPatty Posted June 26, 2022 Author Share Posted June 26, 2022 33 minutes ago, Ariel said: Glad to hear this, PupperMintPatty. Bear is a great name. Such companions and nature can be of invaluable help to us on our healing journeys. It's good that you are prioritizing your health. One of the big challenges in WD is how it can affect our whole lives, incl. health, social relationships, finances, etc. Anything you can do to limit undue stress will help facilitate rest and recovery. Take care of yourself and any urgent responsibilities (so as not to make things worse for yourself down the line); beyond that give yourself lots of time and space to heal. Wishing you the very best of luck on your healing journey ❤️ Thank you, Ariel. Your words are encouraging and you came through at a critical time for me. April to June 2015: Sertraline 2016 to 2019: Cocktail of drugs: Trazodone, Fluoxitine, and Venlafaxine. Several cold turkeys during this period of time. Didn't stay on any drugs consistently, missed many doses and wouldn't take any for longer than a month or two. June 2021: Gabapentin 800mg twice daily for a week then CT also AD that I'm having trouble remembering also only took for one week then CT May 2022: Lorazepam .5mg daily for three weeks then CT. Also Citalopram 20mg for 2 weeks then CT. July 1st 2022: about 1.5 months CT. Also decided to lower magnesium glycinate from 400mg to 200mg since I took note that it could interfere with recovery. Dec. 25th 2022: about 7 months CT. No significant set-backs. Worst symptoms are mild to moderate brain zaps, irritability, mild to moderate anxiety/depression, and mild to moderate nerve pain. Taking electrolytes as needed and only managing symptoms with a Carnivore woe, sunlight, exercise, water, and deep sleep. This marks nearly 3 months of Carnivore so far. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Shep Posted June 27, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted June 27, 2022 21 hours ago, PupperMintPatty said: Thank you for being so kind and understanding. I struggle with immense loneliness and you're making a difference in that. 1. I do get exercise by walking for about 20 to 30 mins every day. Thank you for writing out your answers. Very helpful. Walking 20 to 30 minutes a day is a great thing to do during withdrawal, especially in summer when you can get out and enjoy nature. And yes, this site is excellent for helping with the loneliness of isolation. I'm very glad you found us. 21 hours ago, PupperMintPatty said: 3. I'm currently following the Lion Diet by Mikhaila Peterson. I've done KETO in the past which did help me feel better but I decided to come off because I felt it was having a negative effect on me mentally and emotionally. However, Lion/Carnivore isn't the same in that you eliminate Carbs 100% so I'm thinking this will make a positive difference. I'm familiar with the Lion Diet and Mikhaila Peterson's story (and her father, Jordan, who also suffered from benzo and SSRI withdrawal). Are you eating organ meats? It's still possible to have nutritional deficiencies, but eating organ meats can help. I'm on a Paleo diet, which is high protein, low carb diet. But my understanding of the Lion / Carnivore diet is the exclusion of carbs, so it does throw you into ketosis. Is that correct? Are you eating a modified version of the Lion Diet to stay out of ketosis? 21 hours ago, PupperMintPatty said: 4. I think I'd rather continue CT rather than reinstating. The only reason I kept reinstating was because I didn't know it was the drugs causing the symptoms and distress the whole time. I was scared and the people that I live with don't believe nor support me. When I go to them for help they just tell me that I'm mentally ill and need to be medicated which is very stressful and heart breaking. Completely understandable given the number of drug changes and also the short duration of the latest cocktail. Please know that reinstatement doesn't reinforce the concept of you needing medication for some so-called "mental illness." It's simply a way to give your body a chance to stabilize from having been exposed to a neuro-toxic chemical that your body had adapted to. Just want to make sure you're not reinstating for the right reason and not to prove you aren't "mentally ill." You may want to share this with your family: On 9/28/2020 at 6:53 PM, Shep said: From CEPUK, 9/24/2020: Major milestone: Royal College releases new guidance on stopping antidepressants And here is the leaflet from Royal College of Psychiatry website: PRINT OUT: Stopping antidepressants Might be useful to print out and take to doctors ignorant of withdrawal. May also be helpful for helping family members understand. You may want to focus on neuroplasticity in healing, such as what you're already doing (a clean diet and walking). Here is more on that: Healing from antidepressants: The power of neuroplasticity video (7.5 minutes) Please let us know how you're doing over the coming days. Link to comment
PupperMintPatty Posted June 27, 2022 Author Share Posted June 27, 2022 6 hours ago, Shep said: Thank you for writing out your answers. Very helpful. Walking 20 to 30 minutes a day is a great thing to do during withdrawal, especially in summer when you can get out and enjoy nature. And yes, this site is excellent for helping with the loneliness of isolation. I'm very glad you found us. I'm familiar with the Lion Diet and Mikhaila Peterson's story (and her father, Jordan, who also suffered from benzo and SSRI withdrawal). Are you eating organ meats? It's still possible to have nutritional deficiencies, but eating organ meats can help. I'm on a Paleo diet, which is high protein, low carb diet. But my understanding of the Lion / Carnivore diet is the exclusion of carbs, so it does throw you into ketosis. Is that correct? Are you eating a modified version of the Lion Diet to stay out of ketosis? Completely understandable given the number of drug changes and also the short duration of the latest cocktail. Please know that reinstatement doesn't reinforce the concept of you needing medication for some so-called "mental illness." It's simply a way to give your body a chance to stabilize from having been exposed to a neuro-toxic chemical that your body had adapted to. Just want to make sure you're not reinstating for the right reason and not to prove you aren't "mentally ill." You may want to share this with your family: You may want to focus on neuroplasticity in healing, such as what you're already doing (a clean diet and walking). Here is more on that: Healing from antidepressants: The power of neuroplasticity video (7.5 minutes) Please let us know how you're doing over the coming days. Hi Shep, I'm once again grateful for you and this site. It really does help me feel better. 1. I'm not eating organs yet but will be eating beef liver later on in my journey. I did a good amount of research on the diet and lots of people do well without organs. There's a risk of getting too much vitamins from liver since it's so nutrient dense so I'll eat it occasionally maybe just once or twice a month or so. 2. And yes, The Lion Diet will put me into Ketosis which is actually what I want. I believe Ketosis has the power to heal me because when I'm in it I feel less physical pain. I think the inflammation in my body goes down drastically so that helps. It's the mental/ emotional pain that I have difficulty coping with. Mikhaila has a theory that all Carbs cause pain/ physical symptoms from SSRI withdrawal and I'm beginning to believe it because when I was on KETO I was eating less than 20 net carbs per day and still felt quite bad. Today is day three Lion Diet and what bothers me most is anxiety and intrusive dark thoughts. Do you know if this last reinstatement will set me back? I made a lot of progress healing from last year. Recovered from many symptoms that really scared me like severe loss of balance and coordination. I also had severe nerve pain that I thought I had trigeminal neuralgia/ MS. Sometimes I still get scared and wonder if it's undiagnosed MS. I did get an MRI of my brain, which came back clear, but still feel afraid that the doctors may have missed something. It could just be me letting fear get the best out of me. April to June 2015: Sertraline 2016 to 2019: Cocktail of drugs: Trazodone, Fluoxitine, and Venlafaxine. Several cold turkeys during this period of time. Didn't stay on any drugs consistently, missed many doses and wouldn't take any for longer than a month or two. June 2021: Gabapentin 800mg twice daily for a week then CT also AD that I'm having trouble remembering also only took for one week then CT May 2022: Lorazepam .5mg daily for three weeks then CT. Also Citalopram 20mg for 2 weeks then CT. July 1st 2022: about 1.5 months CT. Also decided to lower magnesium glycinate from 400mg to 200mg since I took note that it could interfere with recovery. Dec. 25th 2022: about 7 months CT. No significant set-backs. Worst symptoms are mild to moderate brain zaps, irritability, mild to moderate anxiety/depression, and mild to moderate nerve pain. Taking electrolytes as needed and only managing symptoms with a Carnivore woe, sunlight, exercise, water, and deep sleep. This marks nearly 3 months of Carnivore so far. Link to comment
PupperMintPatty Posted June 27, 2022 Author Share Posted June 27, 2022 Hey, I've got a site that I would like to link for you guys that'll help you make some money. I know some of you don't feel capable of working and this site is just a British survey site which has more well paid surveys than American survey sites. They pay in pounds sterling which are the equivalent of 1 pound to 1.23 in USD currently. You can transfer the money to paypal and then convert it to whatever currency you need and then transfer it to your bank account. I've made $457.47 USD since Late October last year just doing surveys. I just don't know where to post the link so I'll post here in my introduction for now. https://www.prolific.co/ April to June 2015: Sertraline 2016 to 2019: Cocktail of drugs: Trazodone, Fluoxitine, and Venlafaxine. Several cold turkeys during this period of time. Didn't stay on any drugs consistently, missed many doses and wouldn't take any for longer than a month or two. June 2021: Gabapentin 800mg twice daily for a week then CT also AD that I'm having trouble remembering also only took for one week then CT May 2022: Lorazepam .5mg daily for three weeks then CT. Also Citalopram 20mg for 2 weeks then CT. July 1st 2022: about 1.5 months CT. Also decided to lower magnesium glycinate from 400mg to 200mg since I took note that it could interfere with recovery. Dec. 25th 2022: about 7 months CT. No significant set-backs. Worst symptoms are mild to moderate brain zaps, irritability, mild to moderate anxiety/depression, and mild to moderate nerve pain. Taking electrolytes as needed and only managing symptoms with a Carnivore woe, sunlight, exercise, water, and deep sleep. This marks nearly 3 months of Carnivore so far. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Shep Posted June 28, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted June 28, 2022 17 hours ago, PupperMintPatty said: Mikhaila has a theory that all Carbs cause pain/ physical symptoms from SSRI withdrawal and I'm beginning to believe it because when I was on KETO I was eating less than 20 net carbs per day and still felt quite bad. Today is day three Lion Diet and what bothers me most is anxiety and intrusive dark thoughts. I'm not sure this theory is true. We have people getting through withdrawal on all sorts of diets. It's really individual. If you feel better on the Lion diet and it serves you well, that's a good thing. We generally recommend people eat foods that don't trigger symptoms but still provide all of the nutrients needed. We have people healing on Paleo and Keto but also some are vegan and vegetarians (although low vitamin B12 can be a risk factor for vegans and vegetarians who aren't able to tolerate B12 supplements). We also have people on low-histamine diets, low FODMAP diets, etc. So it's highly individual. Elimination or exclusion diets for reactions to food (food intolerance) 17 hours ago, PupperMintPatty said: Do you know if this last reinstatement will set me back? I made a lot of progress healing from last year. Recovered from many symptoms that really scared me like severe loss of balance and coordination. I also had severe nerve pain that I thought I had trigeminal neuralgia/ MS. Sometimes I still get scared and wonder if it's undiagnosed MS. I did get an MRI of my brain, which came back clear, but still feel afraid that the doctors may have missed something. It could just be me letting fear get the best out of me. It's going to take time, but there's no reason to think you won't recover. The human body is incredibly resilient. If you're having a lot of reoccurring thoughts that may be health anxiety, please see: Health anxiety, hypochondria and obsession with symptoms You've just gone back to the Lion Diet and are heading into Ketosis, which can ramp up symptoms, but that should fade out. Please let us know how you're doing over the coming days. 1 Link to comment
PupperMintPatty Posted June 28, 2022 Author Share Posted June 28, 2022 @Shep Yeah, I understand that diet can help depending on the individual. So far I seem to feel better on this Lion Diet. Mostly just anxiety and intrusive thoughts that are bothering me. April to June 2015: Sertraline 2016 to 2019: Cocktail of drugs: Trazodone, Fluoxitine, and Venlafaxine. Several cold turkeys during this period of time. Didn't stay on any drugs consistently, missed many doses and wouldn't take any for longer than a month or two. June 2021: Gabapentin 800mg twice daily for a week then CT also AD that I'm having trouble remembering also only took for one week then CT May 2022: Lorazepam .5mg daily for three weeks then CT. Also Citalopram 20mg for 2 weeks then CT. July 1st 2022: about 1.5 months CT. Also decided to lower magnesium glycinate from 400mg to 200mg since I took note that it could interfere with recovery. Dec. 25th 2022: about 7 months CT. No significant set-backs. Worst symptoms are mild to moderate brain zaps, irritability, mild to moderate anxiety/depression, and mild to moderate nerve pain. Taking electrolytes as needed and only managing symptoms with a Carnivore woe, sunlight, exercise, water, and deep sleep. This marks nearly 3 months of Carnivore so far. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Shep Posted June 29, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted June 29, 2022 @PupperMintPatty See if these links may help with the anxiety and intrusive thoughts: Withdrawal causing intrusive or repetitive thoughts, rumination, and increased panic? Obsessive Compulsive Disorder or OCD: Repetitive, intrusive thoughts, compulsive behaviors Easing your way into meditation for a stressed-out nervous system During the day, distraction can be helpful. Mindfulness techniques, such as letting your thoughts pass without engaging in them, can be helpful. In the evenings, you may want to search YouTube for guided meditations dealing with intrusive thoughts to help ease you into sleep. This is a good one and there thousands more out there on YouTube: Guided Meditation for Detachment From Over-Thinking (Anxiety / OCD / Depression) video (42 minutes) You may also find this post comforting: Benzo Lies That Have Been Busted Link to comment
PupperMintPatty Posted December 23, 2022 Author Share Posted December 23, 2022 12/23/2022 Update: It's been a while since I was last here. I do my best to stay away because I have a tendency to doom scroll and I know that's not good for my health. However, I'm back with an update. I'm currently 11 weeks into meat only carnivore and it's helped me out significantly. I'm still experiencing brain zaps/ neurological pain (though this has also lessened significantly) but I've managed to improve lots of other things. My goal is to stick to carnivore for as long as it provides me with benefits and then introduce carbohydrates slowly to see what my body is OK with. I fear that I'll have to do it for the rest of my life because that's now what I want. Carnivore is providing me with the following benefits: fibromyalgia - gone, cfs - gone, sleep - restful and healing, anxiety 45% better, depression 40% better, brain fog 65% improved, tinnitus 65% better, sound sentitvity 80% better, light sensitivity 75% better, heat-intolerance 80% better, libido - better, erectile disfunction - improving, muscle mass - increasing, body tone/definition- improving, nerve pain - more tolerable, brain zaps 45% better, psoriasis/ rash on my face - nearly gone, sciatica in both legs 85% better, gait 55% better, hand-eye coordination - improved, hair - growing back thicker and darker, vision 80% better, dandruff 85% better, gum inflammation 95% gone, bad breath - gone, teeth sensitivity - gone, neck stiffness - gone. I may have missed some things but that's what's most important to me right now. I want to go back to work soon so I can do some blood work to check my diabetic/ thyroid markers. I suspect that I am an undiagnosed diabetic with a thyroid injury. I became seriously ill several times after getting infected with covid multiple times. I fear that the damages dealt by antidepressant withdrawal were exploited by each of these covid infections and may have triggered auto immunity for me. I still struggle from day to day and don't believe that KETO is the optimal human diet due to a variety of issues such as electrolyte imbalances, trouble falling asleep and thyroid dysregulation. I'm not providing anyone with advice and am simply stating my personal experience for you guys to see. I believe carnivore can help a lot of people but it is considered extreme by many. I feel scared because I hear about changes that occur in the gut microbiome after eating this way for so long but, based on my research, it is possible to introduce carbohydrates after eating only meat for years at a time. 2 April to June 2015: Sertraline 2016 to 2019: Cocktail of drugs: Trazodone, Fluoxitine, and Venlafaxine. Several cold turkeys during this period of time. Didn't stay on any drugs consistently, missed many doses and wouldn't take any for longer than a month or two. June 2021: Gabapentin 800mg twice daily for a week then CT also AD that I'm having trouble remembering also only took for one week then CT May 2022: Lorazepam .5mg daily for three weeks then CT. Also Citalopram 20mg for 2 weeks then CT. July 1st 2022: about 1.5 months CT. Also decided to lower magnesium glycinate from 400mg to 200mg since I took note that it could interfere with recovery. Dec. 25th 2022: about 7 months CT. No significant set-backs. Worst symptoms are mild to moderate brain zaps, irritability, mild to moderate anxiety/depression, and mild to moderate nerve pain. Taking electrolytes as needed and only managing symptoms with a Carnivore woe, sunlight, exercise, water, and deep sleep. This marks nearly 3 months of Carnivore so far. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Shep Posted December 23, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 23, 2022 @PupperMintPattyThank you for coming back with an update with all that is helping you. This is important information. I'm glad you're finding the Lion diet to be helpful and are doing the appropriate research to learn the dangers of the long term. Learning to research and advocate for our own health is one of the best things we can take away from this experience. Link to comment
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