kikkirimo009: ten plus years, now trying this

[kikkirimo009]

I wanted to post in the Finding Meaning forum, but I do not think I have the right permissions, so here we go. 

I have been reading peoples' experiences on here and feeling seen and related to. But I'm curious if anyone else feels this way. Basically - my antidepressant use gave me no bad side effects. They really seem to improve my life by all empirical standards. I do better in school or work, I am more social and popular, and of course, I am happier. I feel like a radically more pleasurable person to be around. The only "downside" is that I am less sexually inclined, but to be honest I see this as a good thing, as I feel like it can be a superficial distraction and also something that drains your spiritual and creative energy.

 

But recently, I have decided to try quitting antidepressants in the most serious way I ever have. But if I tend to do so well with them, and I have no bad side effects, why am I doing this? 

 

The short answer is that I am unsure, and I'm not convinced. But there is something deep down telling me I need to give this a go, here is why:

 

I'm 27. I went on Prozac at age 15 for reasons psychiatrists called manic depression. I did have quite problematic behaviour (weirder than normal teen stuff), so I can see why. It has been over ten years and I have not questioned it. If anything, I accepted and liked that I was a "darker" human, always getting spurts of depression every now and then. It was cyclical and obviously chronic. Sometimes I would get lazy and forget about my medication. This would inevitably always catch up with me, and I would soon resume it, and feel happy and normal again. So for the most part, I never sought to stop. And starting Wellbutrin in my early adulthood seemed like a Godsend too, as it made me more productive and skinnier.

 

Recently I went through a breakup, and also just getting older I think I am realizing that I lived very fast for many years, and essentially very superficially. Not in the sense that I was being a bad person, but I could easily drop friendships, move to different cities, change career paths. Nothing phased me. This worked well, I have had so many experiences, and I felt like a fearless human. When the breakup happened, I realized I never thought properly or deeply about what I want, and what would give meaning to my life, and what is the true moral path. I started flirting with the idea of religion and God (a huge shock to myself, a smug atheist), and genuinely asking the question, why am I like this? Why, when I stop my antidepressants for any longer than a few weeks, do I start feeling severely ill? It is not a matter of just ruminating thoughts and bad mood, I have a horrible feeling in my body, I get physically sick, I can't move and I am bedridden. I question how humanity got through this for thousands of years without medicine, and why I can't, and what this means. Nobody can tell me why this happens to me, while other people can function in life normally.  

 

Basically I have committed to quitting them because I think I will find some Truth, but it is really an experiment, and some days I wonder why I am doing this and if I can get through it. Especially considering that all elements of my life are better with them.  10+ years is a long time, and I was relieved to find this forum with people relaying experiences of withdrawals lasting years, because BS I am reading online of prozac leaving your body in 25 days was making me feel crazy.  It has been weird for me - I felt fine for months and months upon quitting. Then about a month ago, it all it me so bad, I really started having the worst mental breakdown I've ever known. 

 

Anyways, getting back to why I wanted to post this on Finding Meaning - I am wondering if anyone is similar to me in the sense that their life quality is very good on antidepressants. People like me, with no bad side effects. If this applies to you, why are you quitting? 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, @kikkirimo009

 

One very common adverse effect of antidepressants is they cause an emotional detachment. You have viewed this as a benefit. This is one of the many papers written about the adverse effect. Sansone, R. A., & Sansone, L. A. (2010). SSRI-Induced Indifference. Psychiatry (Edgmont), 7(10), 14–18. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2989833/

 

On 8/16/2022 at 7:40 PM, kikkirimo009 said:

Why, when I stop my antidepressants for any longer than a few weeks, do I start feeling severely ill? It is not a matter of just ruminating thoughts and bad mood, I have a horrible feeling in my body, I get physically sick, I can't move and I am bedridden.

 

That is withdrawal syndrome. The 18,000 members of this site have had similar experiences.

 

You went off Prozac in February 2022, what are your current withdrawal symptoms?

 

Your body will go through a natural process of adaptation to any psychotropic drug you take daily, prescribed or not. This brings on a physiological dependency, with withdrawal being what happens if you no longer feed it. We have seen it usually very gradually goes away over many months.

 

We do not persuade people to go off their drugs here, we help people who voluntarily decide they want to live drug-free. You might look around, engage our members, and learn what you can learn. 

[kikkirimo009]

Thank you for the response, I appreciate it. I do believe and agree they're withdrawal symptoms. I just find it strange and hard to find information regarding why it took so long to catch up with me. I felt fine for months when quitting, and then about a month ago it hit me like a ton of bricks.
 

My withdrawal symptoms are mostly psychological. I feel near continuous dread and despair. A lot of rumination. Prior depressive phases I've had have been mostly classic depression -- not many thoughts, just very low energy. This time it feels different because of the constant rumination and worrying. I have been exercising twice daily but this has hardly helped. It is also slightly physical in that I find it hard to eat, and my body feels tense with anxiety at all times. But no brain zaps or any of the classic symptoms. I am functioning ok with my day-to-day tasks, such as work.  

 

I was thinking I would like to do whatever is quickest, that is why I cold turkey'd it, but it is becoming unbearable so I am seeing a doctor this week to hopefully resume some medication, although I feel a bit disappointed by this. If anyone has any ideas regarding doses/medications I would love to hear. Thank you in advance. 

 

[ChessieCat]

Please read Post #1 of this topic and note that SA recommends starting with a small dose and gradually increase IF needed.  If you take too much it might make things worse:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

Post #1 of this topic has links to other topics including Tips for Tapering various drugs, in which the Post #1 of that topic explains ways to get non standard doses.

 

Important topics in the Tapering forum and FAQ

[UserMan1775]

You are in a protracted withdrawal from stopping cold turkey. There are two phases, acute withdrawal, which happens sometimes with Prozac other times it does not, Prozac takes over 35+ days to be mostly out of your system. Prozac is unique as to other SSRI's due to it's very long half-life. Also, I NEVER ENCOURAGE OR PROMOTE COLD TURKEY OFF ANY DRUG, it is UNSAFE. The below is simply because of your circumstance.

 

4-6 day half-life after chronic use: let's say ~5

Quit Day

40mg +5 days

20mg +5 days

10mg +5 days

5mg +5 days

2.5mg +5 days

1.25 mg +5 days

.625mg +5 days

.3125mg +5 days This is 99% out of your body after 40 days not using Prozac, this is not common knowledge but should be, it takes over a month. You might feel nothing acute for over a month.

.15625mg +5 days

.078125mg +5 days

.0390625mg +5 days

.01953125mg +5 days

.009765625mg +5 days

.0048828125mg +5 days

.00244140625mg +5 days

.00122070312mg +5 days

.00061035156mg +5 days

.00030517578mg +5 days This is 99.999% out of your body after 80 days, This would be considered trace amounts still in blood.

 

You are way beyond this, what you are describing 6 months out would be considered PWS or a protracted withdrawal. There are warnings about reinstating at this juncture, start VERY LOW and VERY SLOW, seeing how it effects you, or accepting where you are and riding the course.

 

It typically gets worse before it gets better, how long have you been feeling poorly? weeks months etc.,?

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

@UserMan1775 is correct, you might not have felt withdrawal from Prozac until some time afterward because its long half-life means drug washout takes weeks.

 

What are your current symptoms that arose since you went off Prozac?

[kikkirimo009]

Thank you for the responses everyone. I have been reading all the info on this website and have been trying to learn. I am finally seeing a doctor tomorrow. 

 

@UserMan1775

On 8/22/2022 at 10:21 PM, UserMan1775 said:

It typically gets worse before it gets better, how long have you been feeling poorly? weeks months etc.,?

 

About a month only, maybe just over that. And it came on like a tonne of bricks. I was really feeling normal for a long time. And then one week I got hit with severe dread and despair. I had been drinking alcohol that week and was on my period so I thought it was just that. But then a week passed and I was still feeling that way, and I feel like it has been getting worse every day since then. I am really at my wits end. 

 

@Altostrata

36 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

What are your current symptoms that arose since you went off Prozac?

It has seemed to be mostly mental --  lots of rumination. The worst despair and dread I've ever felt. I have no control over my mind, it is like a constant reel of past memories and guilt, and worrying about the future. I've become scared to go outside. I had a minor altercation because of some weird lady telling me not to jaywalk on a country road -- it led me to cry for hours. Something like this would have never have bothered me before. I feel tense and on edge virtually all of the time. It is hard to eat. I cry throughout the day, every day. Physically I am mostly fine, my hands get tingly, I'm not sure if that is related.

 

 

So I have decided reinstate.  Originally I was thinking to just get back to what I was on (40 mg) and start fresh that way and then begin to taper, but from what I am reading on here that seems to be a bad idea. Would 20 mg be good? 

I just talked to my dad too, he is a doctor. He is actually an addictions doctor and pretty reasonable, but he is not a psychiatrist. He deals mostly with people using opioids. He finds it unethical to intervene in family medical issues so he has always encouraged me to see my own doctors, and has actually been telling me for years that the Prozac has been making me too flat, and that I was on too much and I should reevaluate. Last year he finally got me to see a psychiatrist, and he wrote detailed notes saying how the Prozac was making me too flat and to lessen the dose, and ultimately the psychiatrist just said my dose was fine. He is saying he blames himself for this whole thing somehow. Like I said he is reasonable though, like he is very anti-benzos, he actually does talks to other Canadian doctors trying to advocate lessening their usage. 

 

He believed me regarding this being withdrawals and not a depressive relapse. He had a different term for it but I forget what. 

 

He gave me a rundown of some options. He said most doctors would put me on Cipralex/Escitalopram at this point. He said if I were his patient he would put me on Effexor/Pristiq because it would make me less flat. He did emphasize Effexor has bad side effects if not taken on time. 

 

I emphasized to him that I am just thinking I want to resume Prozac because my ultimate goal is to taper off completely, and I do not want to complicate things, and he said that should be good too. 

 

What do you all think about simply resuming the Prozac? 

 

[Altostrata]

If you are experiencing withdrawal from a psychiatric drug, drinking any amount of alcohol could set you back. We advise people not to drink at all, or they'll be making their own problems.

 

Women often see withdrawal symptoms become more intense at times in their menstrual cycle.

 

To begin, you might try 1mg Prozac per day, taken in liquid form using an oral syringe, as explained in Tips for tapering off fluoxetine (Prozac) We have observed that even this small amount can reverse withdrawal symptoms. You'd stabilize for some time and taper off by tiny amounts later. 

 

Given Prozac's long half-life, you might see very subtle benefit at first, but it will increase over a few weeks as the drug reaches steady state. Please let us know how you're doing.

[kikkirimo009]

So I feel a bit guilty saying this because of all of the great resources on this website and the advice to reinstate at a smaller dose, but I'll just be honest in that I got a prescription for 10mg of Prozac. 

 

The doctors encouraged more, but I felt like 10 could be good, and I think I am not quite capable of managing liquid prozac. 

 

It really felt like every day was getting harder, I was seeing no progress. And since my WD effects took so long to come on after quitting in February, I do tend to think that it would just keep getting worse as maybe my body is still weening off my original medication? I know it seems insane to think it would be in my system that long, but I was on it for 12 years so who knows. 

If anyone comes across this and hasn't seen this post already, I have found this very helpful:

 

What is happening in your brain?

 

Although it is about benzos, it seems like the same idea for antidepressants. 

 

Also, Meta symptoms of SSRI withdrawal

 

I'm not sure who this person is, but someone linked his blog in a post and I really resonate with the descriptions of regret and guilt, and compulsive memories. It is very strange to me how things I haven't thought about in years are constantly coming to mind and causing me regret. I'm talking, events from decades ago. 

 

Both of these pages help me see things more objectively, and I try to remind myself that these ruminations are a symptom of WD. The ruminating is constant so reminding myself this is only temporary relief, but it helps a bit. 

 

[Altostrata]

Do you feel better now, taking 10mg fluoxetine?

 

1 minute ago, kikkirimo009 said:

I do tend to think that it would just keep getting worse as maybe my body is still weening off my original medication?

 

Withdrawal syndrome arises from the absence of the drug, not the presence of the drug. That is why you were getting worse.

[kikkirimo009]

1 minute ago, Altostrata said:

Do you feel better now, taking 10mg fluoxetine?

 

I think possibly.. nothing too noticeable yet if it is. And it has just been a few days so it may be placebo. I know that the day I got the prescription I felt a lot of relief. I am just so ready to stabilize so I can be in a good situation to taper off properly. It was getting to the point where I was getting agoraphobic and couldn't go outside to exercise, or even drive a car to my exercise classes, which was the only thing that was helping me.

 

[kikkirimo009]

An update. I feel more functional. Prior to this reinstating I was having trouble going outside (getting agoraphobic). At least now I am back to exercising and being able to take my dog on walks. Also I have a bit more energy. Have been doing some cooking and baking. 

 

I have gotten extremely anxious though. I wake up very anxious every day. I had some life news that probably would have been quite devastating even despite the withdrawals. I had a pretty full on mental breakdown when that happened and had to cancel some social plans I was looking forward to. The next two days I cried for hours with to parents which I would have never done or thought of doing prior. I have always been very emotionally closed off, especially with them. 

 

So I am very anxious (more than before) and I am ruminating, but in a different way. I am ruminating much less about the past (guilt etc.) and more about the future. I can't stop thinking about what my next steps should be. Like, considering I moved home to my parents and still have an apartment, career and relationship decisions... being 27 I feel so anxious to resume life, it is very hard to accept I am not well enough to go live on my own again, even though I think that is what I want eventually. I just can't picture going back to my apartment where I lived alone though. I also work remote so I'm in there most of the day, it truly drove me crazy when I started becoming unwell and the WDs started. 

 

One day when I was almost fully in terror and couldn't stop crying to my family for hours on end my aunt gave me a bunch of vitamins she takes. It immediately calmed me down. Generally I know my body is sensitive and I should be wary and slow to try new things but I was in a desperate state. It did help significantly though so I may look into them. One I have been taking some days when I wake up feeling horrible is ashwagandha, but I'm not sure if it helps. 

 

I'll keep posting here as I like seeing my progress. Hope everyone is well. 

[Altostrata]

Hello, @kikkirimo009 It sounds like the Prozac reinstatement is working, but perhaps you have new worries? The accompanying anxiety might be amplified by your sensitized nervous system.

 

What time o'clock do you take your drugs, with their dosages?

[Altostrata]

Hello, @kikkirimo009 how are you doing?