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Iggy131313 validation is imminent


Iggy131313

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Oh, and Imeant to say that I have been on my period for 2 weeks, 2 whole weeks

 

Is your period usually regular. Is your period making your anxiety worse. Do you think withdrawal from Citalopram is the reason your period is so prolonged. Has this happened at any previous time during which you were taking Citalopram.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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I dont have any anger issues and never have, I have also never had anxiety at all, I was put on meds during a physical illness. You are right though my own anxietys are adding to the anxiety caused by the meds and the fact that I just dont know what to do for the best

 

Hi Iggy... I just saw this. It would seem then that the anxiety you feel is pretty much withdrawal related, and probably increased now by your period. Check out the meditation video I put in the message above, and I"ll look for a couple of others later.. Have you worked with mindfulness techniques before? They can help you pull the 'anxiety plug' so you don't feel so overwhelmed.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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what is adding to alot of this is the fact that I REALLY dont kno what to do

 

I was on citalopram for 2.5 years, I ddnt need it but I kept taking it because I thought it was such an innocent and harmless drug! ha!

 

So I quit CT in feb just because I had run out and thought well I have never needed it anyway

 

life was fine until 5 months later when I had my first panic attack then my second and third, I didnt know what the hell was going on

 

I went to the drs and got the Cit back and was launched straight into HELL

 

Akathisa and all sorts of REALLY bad stuff, I was traimatised but I kept taking it, I took it for 5.5 weeks and then couldnt stand it any longer and cut to 10, this gave me some relief but I was still very bad, thats when I did this pattern

 

5.5 weeks - 20mg

1 week - 10mg

2 days - 20mg

5 days - 30mg

3 days - 20mg

3.5 weeks 10mg

2 weeks 7.5mg

2 weeks 5mg

29th Oct - 2.5mg

 

could it be that I just couldnt tolerate 20mg because of the w/d and if I gave it a little longer at a stable dose on a lower dosage that things might take?

 

I was so detirmined to get off it once I was on 10mg for 3 weeks that I started getting lower because i had found relief at 10mg from 20, no where near normal, still in hell but not ACUTE hell - by this I mean the akathisia was less...

 

I continued to taper at what you can see is a fast rate to try and find relief, yes things get ALOT worse over my period and I have never been irregular before, I have certainly not bleed for 2 weeks straight its very weird.

 

To be honest all I want id relief from this, I dont care if I am on the drug, if I could get on and stabilise and feel normal for a year and then start a very very slow taper then I would be very happy to do that...maybe there is a chance,

damaged by citalopram - severe suffering for 3 years now...no improvement

 

akathsiia, pgad, dp/dr, terror, and so SO many more daily

 

severly disabled and lost everything

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Akathisa and all sorts of REALLY bad stuff, I was traimatised but I kept taking it, I took it for 5.5 weeks and then couldnt stand it any longer and cut to 10, this gave me some relief. I was so detirmined to get off it once I was on 10mg for 3 weeks that I started getting lower because i had found relief at 10mg from 20, no where near normal, still in hell but not ACUTE hell - by this I mean the akathisia was less...I continued to taper at what you can see is a fast rate to try and find relief, yes things get ALOT worse over my period and I have never been irregular before, I have certainly not bleed for 2 weeks straight its very weird.

 

To be honest all I want id relief from this, I dont care if I am on the drug, if I could get on and stabilise and feel normal for a year and then start a very very slow taper then I would be very happy to do that...maybe there is a chance,

 

The cut to 10 mgs helped reduce the symptoms, but did you have any further improvement as you went from 10 mgs down to 2.5 mgs? Did the akathisia become less.

 

I wonder if you might have a GYN issue that is not caused by withdrawal. Maybe you need to have this checked out by a GYN.

 

 

what is adding to alot of this is the fact that I REALLY dont kno what to do

Until you get a better sense, hold where you are?

 

 

Mindfulness strategies would help you to detach yourself from all the chemical anxiety in your body that is driven by withdrawal and GYN issues.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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oh and thanks for the meditation stuff, and for talking to me during this terrible time

damaged by citalopram - severe suffering for 3 years now...no improvement

 

akathsiia, pgad, dp/dr, terror, and so SO many more daily

 

severly disabled and lost everything

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I dont think its a GYN issue I think its my hormones in a state of chaos. I have seen alot of womens periods stop during w/d so it could make sense that mine has decided to come and stick around for a while.

 

I am lost and I dont think theres a wa home for me

damaged by citalopram - severe suffering for 3 years now...no improvement

 

akathsiia, pgad, dp/dr, terror, and so SO many more daily

 

severly disabled and lost everything

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  • Administrator

Iggy, if your sleep has settled down as you are holding, this is an indication your pushing through the taper is making you WORSE.

 

I think your other symptoms are because your entire taper has been irregular and too fast. Continuing to taper is only continuing to make the error.

 

I understand you're afraid of the medication but at this point, sleep is important for healing. Don't disturb this with another cut.

 

If I were you, I would continue to hold until you see Dr. Healy.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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ok, do you think I can use sleep as an indicator? it doesnt seem to have a massive impact on how I feel during the day...

 

At the moment from about 11pm onwards I feel as I usually would in the mornings, wide awake and pretty normal, I cant GET to sleep until maybe 1am but thats no big deal, because I find relief at that time Im pretty content to lie awake and revel in my normalness and without that horrific feeling that I cant tell is anxiety or akathesia.

 

But when I first started this RI for weeks and weeks I would be bolted awake very early (You know all about this alto, I know) and there was NO CHANCE of me trying to sleep, once I dropped to 10mg that improved alot and since then I have been able to sleep until 10.30am or 11am every day.

 

There are nights I can fall asleep earlier than 1am but not many,

 

When I dropped to 2.5 I once again started to wake very early and even when I could force myself back to sleep it was very unsettled and that kind of half sleep half awake troubled stuff.

 

I also started to wake a few times through the night, not with a start but just my eyes would open as if I had not been asleep at all, as If I had been laying there awake the whole time!

 

Anyway yes that has settled down and Im not waking through the night and able to sleep in until as I said maybe 10.30. So Im getting plenty of sleep. Do you really think that sleep aids recovery?

damaged by citalopram - severe suffering for 3 years now...no improvement

 

akathsiia, pgad, dp/dr, terror, and so SO many more daily

 

severly disabled and lost everything

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But once again I have to ask Alto, I had already gone into w/d before I started this RI, at 5 months, and after a CT from 20mg, stupid stupid...surely no matter what, once I come off this I am going to be in a protracted w/d for a long long time. That was always coming and theres nothing I can do now to prevent it.

 

I do wonder that because I felt absolutly fine up until the 5 month mark, how severe my w/d would have been if I had left everything alone, I was so scared by what was happening with the panic attacks I was deffo adding to things, but NOW I have reinstateted and kindled AGAIN the next w/d is going to be even worse.

 

It breaks my heart that you struggle as you do after so long, its so unfair and I know I am destined to follow in your footsteps, although saying that I dont have your strength, I would get on the drugs merry go round after a couple of years if this doesnt end

damaged by citalopram - severe suffering for 3 years now...no improvement

 

akathsiia, pgad, dp/dr, terror, and so SO many more daily

 

severly disabled and lost everything

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Yes, you can use sleep as a indicator. Yes, sleep is important to healing.

 

Iggy, I think many of your assumptions about withdrawal syndrome and your destiny are incorrect. It is possible for healing to happen while you are tapering, and while you have a small amount of Celexa in your body.

 

Healing means stabilization of the nervous system. The excessive dosage of Celexa and the many ups and downs in your dosage since then has kept your nervous system in an uproar. Stop making changes and let your nervous system settle down.

 

As I've said many times, if I were you, I'd hold the Celexa dosage, stop worrying about your destiny, and do what you can to help healing.

 

If you can send Dr. Healy e-mail, you might send him a link to this topic so he can see what you're going through.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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If you can send Dr. Healy e-mail, you might send him a link to this topic so he can see what you're going through.

 

Alto's is a great idea. And if you cannot send him a link, print the info out and take it with you. You have done a great job explaining your most unfortunate journey .

 

Your 'destiny' is your anxiety talking, and your anxiety is fueled by neuroemotions (withdrawal related emotions). The fact you feel with such intensity does not mean there is validity to the worry.. only that emotions fueled by withdrawal are a force to be reckoned with. You can do this, but you need to be able to pull back from the panic and fear that are threatening to overwhelm. Listen to the audio meditation file in the previous post,it this helps, I'll look for a couple of others.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Uninterrupted sleep is a gift that will help you get through this Iggy. Try this: when you are laying awake at night during that time before sleep and you feel normal, use that time for positive, thoughtful, self affirmations that you can and will get better......

because you will.

Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone

1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox.

b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b]

2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax

November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b

Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax

My mantra " go slow & with the flow "

3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day)

4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day.

10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro.

1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms.

1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. :) 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut.

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Thanks guys I will stay at 2.5 for now and see.

 

Im having a very VERY difficult time at the moment switching off from withdrawal victim mode, I dont know how to do it.... Im scared to be with my family and I dont know why, the only thing I can focus on is this sh1t, I seem to spend all my time on these forums searching for a way out but I know that there isnt one.

 

I know I should try to distract myself from it but I find it so hard to even THINK about anything else, whatever I am doing the constant thoughts about how my life is over because of this w/d are with me 24/7.

 

I really dont know how much I am adding to the chemical fear myself, but I have ZERO confidence...part of it is that when I am downstairs with my family and not hiding in the bedroom things feel so 'wrong' and 'off' maybe its some DP/DR but it scares me so much that I can only take it for a few minutes and then Im running back to the bedroom again.

 

Being on the bedroom doesnt take the feelings away and being on these forums doesnt take the feelings away, but at least its something that occupies my mind, when I try to do anything else my mind always comes back to focus on how I am feeling, that things feel wrong that I feel out of control and that Im loosing my mind.

 

Maybe these thoughts are all part of it, If Im honest I wish I could get back on the drug and just be ok again without all these thoughts and anxiety, whether t be my own or chemical.

 

I feel OBSSESSED by what is happening to me and I cant seem to break free, I want to be able to wake up and say, its over now, but I will NEVER be able to do that.

 

what should I do? Im so so scared

damaged by citalopram - severe suffering for 3 years now...no improvement

 

akathsiia, pgad, dp/dr, terror, and so SO many more daily

 

severly disabled and lost everything

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Also Alto, you say my assessment of the what awaits me is wrong, how can it be? do you mean there is a chance I will avoid a severe and long lasting w/d syndrome, I cant possibly see how I can avoid it?

 

I was already in w/d when I did this failed RI so now I have kindled and no matter how slowly I come off this 2.5 I will go straight into a protracted w/d. are you saying there is a chance this may not happen? what would make you think there is a chance?

damaged by citalopram - severe suffering for 3 years now...no improvement

 

akathsiia, pgad, dp/dr, terror, and so SO many more daily

 

severly disabled and lost everything

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Iggy, I think we can all relate to being obsessed about our condition - i think the key is to look at that as a symptom of the condition, rather than your reality forever.

 

Also, it is important to keep reminding yourself that no matter how someone else's withdrawal has played out, yours will be different. There are no guarantees that someone can CT without withdrawal, just as there is no certainty that every CT will result in protracted withdrawal.

Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg

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I think its pretty nailed on the CT results in a very very long protracted life ruining w/d. I have a 3 year old boy and I will never see him grow up, well I may see it but I wont feel it and I wont be there, I really want to kill myself because of the way I am, Im so lost and I dont know what to do

damaged by citalopram - severe suffering for 3 years now...no improvement

 

akathsiia, pgad, dp/dr, terror, and so SO many more daily

 

severly disabled and lost everything

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I think its pretty nailed on the CT results in a very very long protracted life ruining w/d. I have a 3 year old boy and I will never see him grow up, well I may see it but I wont feel it and I wont be there, I really want to kill myself because of the way I am, Im so lost and I dont know what to do

 

Hi iggy.. I'm very concerned about you. You keep thinking of the worst case scenario (and one that virtually never happens) as a fait accompli. This is very dysfunctional and can lead you to take aggressive taper cuts to meet your expectations. Doing this would probably be very harmful, while remaining on the same dose you are now will give you time to heal. You need to ask yourself why you are holding onto misapprehensions so steadfastly. It's as if you are afraid to let go of the anger you acquired from your withdrawal experience because you may lose control of it if you do. I wonder if you considered working with a therapist on this?

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Im confused about this, I had already entered protracted w/d at 5 months off, have made things worse with this failed RI, am in hell, even if I stabalise on this dose of 2.5 Im not going to be normal on it, how is there a chance Im NOT going to have a very long protracted w/d?

 

If I had only been on the meds for the 4 months and had not been on them for 2.5 years before and if I was not in the posiiton I am now, scared of everything, racing thoughts, anhedonia, severe anxiety etc, then yes I could see that someone in that position (only being on meds 4 months and a slow taper off) would be fine.

 

But thats NOT the position I am in. You say its rare? but its the norm? and it had already started to happen to me.

 

Please if you think there is a chance of me not having a long and protracted w/d then explain your thinking, it may comfort me.

 

I have done my research and I know that there are people who are still suffering 7 and 8 years out, for NO REASON, they havent done the wrong things or taken any other drugs....

 

SOME people seem to be able to heal within 3 years or 4 years, and yes I would put myself in the WORST position, because my symptoms are so severe.

 

If there was some way I could get 100% stable on this medication or another, maybe paxil then did a super slow taper then I would think I had a better chance of recovery.

 

I dont want to work with a therapist and anyway you cant get them here in the UK, Im destoyed and so sad, I feel like Im living a horror film or am the bi product of a nazi experiment, Im too scared to be with my son...its already happening to me so how can I possibly avoid it?

damaged by citalopram - severe suffering for 3 years now...no improvement

 

akathsiia, pgad, dp/dr, terror, and so SO many more daily

 

severly disabled and lost everything

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The reason I take the cuts is to see if it could make me feel any BETTER, Im trying to do anything that could make this go away but it dosnt go away, god help me.

damaged by citalopram - severe suffering for 3 years now...no improvement

 

akathsiia, pgad, dp/dr, terror, and so SO many more daily

 

severly disabled and lost everything

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Oh and Alto, my sleep has always been ok through this, it was NOT OK when I was on the 20mg that was hell and I hardly slept and had the 4am wake up call. But for the rest of the time its been ok, the same as now, but I had maybe a week of it being more restless after the drop from 5 to 2.5 but again this was during my pms week.

damaged by citalopram - severe suffering for 3 years now...no improvement

 

akathsiia, pgad, dp/dr, terror, and so SO many more daily

 

severly disabled and lost everything

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Im confused about this, I had already entered protracted w/d at 5 months off, have made things worse with this failed RI, am in hell, even if I stabalise on this dose of 2.5 Im not going to be normal on it, how is there a chance Im NOT going to have a very long protracted w/d?

Protracted does not mean endless, only drawn out. So you made things worse by reinstating at such a high dose, a lot of people on this site have had missteps and they have improved. If you stabilize on 2.5 mgs you will continue to improve as you hold. You can maintain that improvement with a VERY slow taper when you are ready to start again, but not before. We are not giving you more advice on this because you will be seeing Dr. Healy and he is respected. If you aggressively taper, your system will not stabilize, you will have the hellish experience you fear.

 

Why do you believe withdrawal will be endless? We don't believe this here.. were this so, none of us would be helping on this site, I for sure would not. Dr. Healy believes he can help, ... Who is giving you this info and why do you believe it for It is NOT correct.

 

You have the power to decide who and what you want to believe. Iggy... we cannot make this choice for you. At this point, you need to reread our responses for we have given you all the info we possess.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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I have read so many stories of people still suffering a long way out, Alto is not the only one who is over 7 years and still having symptoms, I know of at least 5 others who are still suffering in this timeframe.

 

But what makes you think I will stabalise on this dose? if stabalise means get back to normal then its not going to happen....if stablisise means staying like this then whats the point? Im only prolonging the suffering.

 

If I could get TRULY stable and be normal then I would be more than happy to do a slow taper, but I wont, and I have no desire to suffer through this hell tapering over a year only to be faced with another god knows hhow many years of protracted w/d after that?

 

Its just confusing, I am very suicidal, and yes I know, if Im suicidal I should get help but I dont want professional help, they will just lock me up on a mental ward and what help will that be?

 

I pray to god that I die in my sleep every niht but it doesnt happen, this is the most inhuman and ungodly and cruel hell that could ever happen to someone, I cannpt believe it is happening to me and I cannot live my life in this torture.

 

I would prefer to physically tortured than to endure this pain

damaged by citalopram - severe suffering for 3 years now...no improvement

 

akathsiia, pgad, dp/dr, terror, and so SO many more daily

 

severly disabled and lost everything

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and I have to reiterate that I AM having that hellish experience, its already happening to me, my life is unvearable and unlivable, every day is torture and all I can think about is killing myself to end the pain. Im not going to do it now, I will give myself a fighting chance to recover but I have been in pure hell for nearly 5 months now without a window no breaks no relief and im so desperate

damaged by citalopram - severe suffering for 3 years now...no improvement

 

akathsiia, pgad, dp/dr, terror, and so SO many more daily

 

severly disabled and lost everything

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  • Moderator Emeritus

I have read so many stories of people still suffering a long way out, Alto is not the only one who is over 7 years and still having symptoms, I know of at least 5 others who are still suffering in this timeframe.

Then it's time to stop reading. Alto did not tell you you will have a journey that is as prolonged as the one she had, nor does she believe you will.

 

But what makes you think I will stabalise on this dose? if stabalise means get back to normal then its not going to happen....if stablisise means staying like this then whats the point? Im only prolonging the suffering.

First you stabilize, then you return to normal. If you can stabilize, and you have shown improvement already, then you can return to normal, or a state very close to this.

 

Iggy, you need to reread our previous responses.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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I am very grateful for all your help, I really am.

 

Sadly no one can asuure me that I wont suffer for years, and that is what is so upsetting.

 

So do you think I will be able to improve from the state I am in now by holding the dose? how do I know that the 2.5 isnt doing further harm? also I will deffo have a bad w/d once this is out of my system so I will have that looming over me, but maybe if I get stable I could updose?

 

I dont know I just want to be normal and happy, the past 5 months have been the most horrific time and I am deeply traumatised already, I cannot function at all and when I try to its the most uncomfortable and horrible time.

 

Thankyou so much for trying to help and advise me, as you can see I am a lost cause.

 

Im really sorry, I know how desperate I am coming across and its so not me, Sorry

 

Caroline

damaged by citalopram - severe suffering for 3 years now...no improvement

 

akathsiia, pgad, dp/dr, terror, and so SO many more daily

 

severly disabled and lost everything

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Thankyou so much for trying to help and advise me, as you can see I am a lost cause.

Caroline

 

I do like Caroline better than iggy... lovely name you have.

 

You are only a lost cause if you decide you are.

 

Dr. Healy can address many of your questions in more detail when you see him.

 

Why won't it harm you to stay on 2.5 mgs .. (Alto told you this yesterday in one of her posts) You are holding on this dose now and improving. The fact you are sleeping is excellent... and yes, withdrawal can cause dreadful insomnia.. you described rebound insomnia that has now gotten better.

 

Stop obsessing, and if you cannot, you need to ask yourself what you are gaining by doing so.

 

Regarding reading other accounts... Your story is your own, and on one elses. We here have responded to your personal journey. You need to stop reading all sorts of ugly narratives that only fuel your fears.

 

Caroline, Take a deep breath and reread the responses we have given.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Caroline.. you might like to read this thread.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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I have read so many stories of people still suffering a long way out, Alto is not the only one who is over 7 years and still having symptoms, I know of at least 5 others who are still suffering in this timeframe.

 

But what makes you think I will stabalise on this dose? if stabalise means get back to normal then its not going to happen....if stablisise means staying like this then whats the point? Im only prolonging the suffering.

 

If I could get TRULY stable and be normal then I would be more than happy to do a slow taper, but I wont, and I have no desire to suffer through this hell tapering over a year only to be faced with another god knows hhow many years of protracted w/d after that?

 

Its just confusing, I am very suicidal, and yes I know, if Im suicidal I should get help but I dont want professional help, they will just lock me up on a mental ward and what help will that be?

 

I pray to god that I die in my sleep every niht but it doesnt happen, this is the most inhuman and ungodly and cruel hell that could ever happen to someone, I cannpt believe it is happening to me and I cannot live my life in this torture.

 

I would prefer to physically tortured than to endure this pain

 

Oh, Iggy, this really resonates with me. I remember first seeing that people were taking years to heal and despairing, because I felt I couldn't deal with another day of what I was going through, much less a month or years! And what you say about hoping you die in your sleep, I have had those thoughts every time I'm feeling awful.

 

But listen... it's true there are no guarantees, and everyone is different, but very few people take that long to get better. AND, provided you don't panic and start taking steps to do what you can to feel better (which means, first of all, accepting the awful situation you are in), you will experience considerable improvement that will help you handle what is to come. This isn't going to be easy and it isn't going to be linear... you will get better in fits and starts. What is essential is you approach your situation with as much calm as you can muster.

 

I know, that sounds impossible, and believe me, I fail at it continually. But it's the only way... there isn't going to be a magic solution. Someone else posted on another thread that you have to think of it as having the flu, or being on a boat and being sick but you can't get off. In other words, ACCEPT first... and then, within that, find ways to be as kind to yourself as possible with what you are going through. Observe what you are going through as if it were happening to someone else. It's awful, but if you can get a small measure of distance, you can maybe not "believe" the anxiety or the suicidal feelings. You can just observe that you are having them. You can say to yourself "I observe that I am experiencing anxiety", for example. It's uncomfortable, it's awful, for sure. But the important thing is not to fuel the fire with thoughts.

 

I really recommend reading "The Reality Slap: Finding Peace and Fulfillment When Life Hurts" by Russ Harris. It's in the same series as The Happiness Trap, and is based on Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. The Happiness Trap website has some free resources as well, look for the worksheets. It's a disappointing answer, I know. How much we would love to be able to flip the switch and go back to normal. But as that is not possible, we have to approach our situation with courage and empathy for ourselves.

 

You are NOT a lost cause! I thank people on here who have reminded me of that every time I despair (which is pretty much every time I take a turn for the worse after seeing improvement!). They have really helped me get back on track, picking myself up and finding the strength to keep going. I had a particularly rough spot about a month ago which really got me down as I had been, up and down, doing so much better than last year. Right now I'm feeling close to the best I've felt. So there IS hope!

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

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Thanks Nadia, you know if I didnt have a 3 year old beautiful son I think this would be so much easier but I do and I know he should be my reason for trying to stay strong but its so wrong that I am now scared to be around him, what am I scared of, god knows, scared of not being who I used to be scared of alwats pretending and everything I say and do is not me, I think he sees it too, but how can I be natural and relaxed when I cant feel myself and I hate myself and Im alwasy scared?

 

Its so damn unfair what has been done to us, and I always thought I was so clever avoiding drugs, well, they slipped this one in didnt they, and now my whole life is over I dont know how Im gonna get through another second and Its a certainty that I will suffer for at least another 2 years

damaged by citalopram - severe suffering for 3 years now...no improvement

 

akathsiia, pgad, dp/dr, terror, and so SO many more daily

 

severly disabled and lost everything

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Thanks Nadia, you know if I didnt have a 3 year old beautiful son I think this would be so much easier but I do and I know he should be my reason for trying to stay strong but its so wrong that I am now scared to be around him, what am I scared of, god knows, scared of not being who I used to be scared of alwats pretending and everything I say and do is not me, I think he sees it too, but how can I be natural and relaxed when I cant feel myself and I hate myself and Im alwasy scared?

 

Its so damn unfair what has been done to us, and I always thought I was so clever avoiding drugs, well, they slipped this one in didnt they, and now my whole life is over I dont know how Im gonna get through another second and Its a certainty that I will suffer for at least another 2 years

 

This is a long one. I've been thinking of you and wanting to correspond more lately, but frankly you've been posting so many things in so many places that concern me and call for examination, my mind is reeling. It's like trying to watch a fast tennnis game. I never could even follow what was happening in a chess game lol. Aaaack.

 

It's been getting harder for some time for me to write long posts, and I know that some people in w/d find it hard to follow long posts. But some people have told me they appreciated my explaining in more detail about some things. So I (less and less often) still try at times to do that when I think it's important. I think this is a situation where it is. I should proofread it (I'm the queen of malaprops and general ****-ups), but I totally hate proofreading, and I have a very "assertive" cat who is waiting for her dinner.

 

OK, I truly hate proofreading. If anything doesn't make sense or sounds wrong in any way, let me know and I'll explain. I think it's very healthy that in recent years I have an overwhelming urge to NOT think about w/d lol. But I want to help other people, especially to learn from my and so many other people's mistakes. Then at least some good will come out of what I went through.

 

Here's what I just wrote:

Caroline, I haven't forgotten you by not replying (by email and/or posting here) sooner.

 

On the contrary, you've been on my mind a great deal. I even had to keep reminding myself to concentrate on the movie I went to see last night. My mind kept wandering to you and all the things you've been mentioning lately in emails and posts on numerous groups. (I didn't even know some of those groups existed!)

 

That reminds me - I think it might be helpful to keep certain information on your journal threads (and as much as possible in sigs) on all your various journals etc. In addition to double-checking on the histories of various cases you mention that frighten you (because I "know" most of these people - online - often from WAY back and their cases are significantly different from yours in important ways, and therefore NOT valid bases for comparison with your situation; i.e., you're scaring yourself needlessly!), I'm trying to piece together the pieces of the "jigsaw puzzle."

 

But before I go do essential errands now that businesses are open again after the holiday here yesterday, I did a quick check on this thread and want to mention a few things. As always, what I write is based on my own experiences (which include numerous meds and c/t's and too-fast tapers, as well as cold switches, of various kinds of meds, over the years) and having read countless thousands of posts over many years and corresponded with numerous people.

 

But I want to post some things here rather than in emails so that if anyone here has different takes on anything I write, I hope they add their knowledge and perspectives.

 

Getting on to your post above --

 

With some of us who have (or in my case, had) DR and the blind terror I had (and which I've been discussing often with Belaqua - don't know if you're still in touch with her too, but you both bring up a lot of the same things), we experience what I came to believe are altered perceptions. This is absolutely reversible - I haven't had those in years now, thank goodness.

 

But I will never forget what it was like. I DON'T normally think about it. I remember clearly thinking (every day!), "I'll be traumatized for life by this. How could I not be?"

 

Well, I wasn't. I don't know how that's possible, but as I told you (or maybe it was "A" aka Bela???), it's now like a nightmare I had where suddenly during the day you remember a horrible nightmare you had that night. And when people mention the kinds of things you do, of course I remember experiencing it. And the hopelessness I felt at that time - day after endlessly long day.

 

But I don't even think about it unless something reminds me. Like you, I came to think I couldn't possibly recover (though I kept hoping), and I thought even if I did recover, I couldn't possibly not be severely traumatized by what I'd experienced. That's what my brain was certain of.

 

It was wrong.

 

I am not in any way minimizing what I went through - including the suicidal ideations, and also many symptoms you've never even mentioned.

 

But I was so indescribably worried and frightened - and just plain horrified to the nth degree - needlessly. My suffering wouldn't have been any less at the time, but the horror of it all would have been more tolerable, if I just knew there was an end in sight and that I would enjoy life as passionately as I did before. So now I try to help others as best I can.

 

My life became a horror story in non-withdrawal ways during the last year or two. Life circumstances I haven't told anyone about online. A rollercoaster of hope and despair. Life throws unexpected curveballs, and I've been going through a devastating process of coming to acceptance of that. Some of these life circumstances may get better; others I've had to accept I can do nothing more. Going through pretty much the classic stages of grief.

 

But amazingly, with that acceptance, I'm finally starting to once again enjoy (whenever time permits) things again. Like never before. I appreciate things I took for granted before w/d. And even starting to have glimmers of thinking in terms of rebuilding my life again after the non-w/d life circumstances that basically crashed everything in my life.

 

We have a strong life force that we can lose touch with in w/d. As I think I've mentioned in emails, I realized while in w/d that this is a "disconnect" like when you turn off the lights and you don't see the things in a room. They're still there, but you can't see them.

 

Or - referring to your post - they can look strange and even ominous in the dark. This is why kids are afraid of the dark. (And it happened to me literally in w/d. Even in the light, of course. But especially when the lights were off. For a time, I had to keep the lights blazing even during the night.)

 

With kids, they can be frightened in the dark. You turn the lights on, and everything's fine again.

 

It's like that with the w/d terrors and distorted perceptions. Not everyone gets these symptoms, but for those of us who do, the world becomes a terrifying place. And ironically, it's most painful when our sensory perceptions change for the things we normally love most.

 

I've been there.

 

I cannot urge this strongly enough. Accept that this is happening to you now, and yes, it is absolutely horrible. But it's an illusion, caused by out-of-balance biochemistry, and that biochemistry will return to normal. It takes some healing, and I will have to go into more detail in other posts that a lot of the things you seem certain of for some reason (length of time it will last, and what particularly concerns me - saying that you won't heal until you're totally off the med or that you will be in terrible worse condition when you do go off, etc.) are just not necessarily so.

 

You will need some time for healing, and you may have to "pretend" as you mention, for a while. I certainly did - I was taking care of a dying father with NO help whatsoever - during my horrific w/d. He knew I was "sick" - I had to get him to understand that I had to make changes in how I'd been doing things for him. Although I assured him that I would make sure that he got everything he needed and that I would continue to be the companionship and help I had been.

 

I can go into detail about how it was both unimaginably hard and also incredibly rewarding how I managed to take care of him until he died (holding my hand). But I don't want you to have to think about difficult (though as I said, truly rewarding) things like that when you're going through such a hard time.

 

Suffice it to say that I did it (looking back, can't imagine how, but I did), and that he never knew what was wrong with me. His choice, not mine. (If you knew my father, you'd know that was totally in character!)

 

It may take a little longer - and especially holding steady at a dose rather than all the ups and downs in doses you've been doing - before "acting normal" with your son gets easier and you're able to take a true interest in what he has to tell you and in his playing - even when you're still experiencing some feelings of DP/DR "unreality" and fear. But in a while you will have more and more periods of being able to do things with him and relate to him more normally, as was the case before this last large drop. (Please go back and read your earlier entries in your journal on "the site with no name" lol.)

 

And when you least expect it, you will see your son again as he really is - with love and seeing all the beauty that he is.

 

Right now you're seeing him like a reflection in a carnival distorted mirror. But he hasn't changed. Just your vision of it. Keep reminding yourself that it's distorted perception, and that distortion is temporary. You just have to accept that it's your condition at this time.

 

And a strong suggestion here: For YOUR sake, please, please force yourself to stop saying things like "now my whole life is over... and Its a certainty that I will suffer for at least another 2 years."

 

Someone I don't normally agree with (LOL) once pointed out something I very much agree with on "the site with no name" (lol). She pointed out that the brain LIES in w/d.

 

That is true. Just as you know (and grieve over) that your perceptions of your son are not normal or accurate at this time, due to w/d, the same is true of your perception of what you term "horror stories."

 

It would probably crash this site's server if I listed and pointed out the inaccuracies and fallacies in your assessment of so many stories you're applying to your own assessment of your condition! Even if you can't change the past, you are still tapering and can control how you do it - unlike the other cases you often refer to (and for that matter, to my own - I was almost a year off paxil when I found a w/d group - and ironically, sick as I was, I joined because I really wanted to send a PM to a then-member named... Altostrata!).

 

I understand that you had a bad reaction to reinstating your med. But given the amount of time you were on it, not only in the RI, but previously (until earlier this year), I think it's still crucial to go slowly.

 

The brain does NOT like big and sudden changes. The brain is capable of amazing neuroplasticity, but we have to work with it in the ways it can handle and the pact it can handle.

 

We will never know if you would have had at least fewer problems if you had reinstated slowly at a tiny dose and then possibly tiny increases, the way Alto advises people to do if they want to see if reinstating might help. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. But even when it doesn't, it generally minimizes the impact. Like bumping into a wall when walking at a slow pace, as opposed to hitting a wall when running fast.

 

Don't dwell on that since that's water under the bridge. But please learn from it. The brain almost invariably needs changes to be slow, tiny changes. Up or down. The brain knows how to heal, and we have to work with how it functions.

 

Slow tiny changes does NOT mean slow, tiny improvement. The opposite is true.

 

Please give it a try. You certainly can change how you do things in the future if you choose to. But I really think you'll find that although you still have to go through a healing process, things will be easier and if you really use will power (for some reason people really want to rush as you get lower in dose - the worst possible time for doing that!!!), I think you can avert the "disaster" you're so sure will happen when finally going off the med. And very possibly feeling much better once you've s-l-o-w-l-y gotten lower in dose.

 

I'll explain my reasoning more in an email if you like. This is based on good reasons, not flight of fancy. Let me know.

 

But please try it and give it enough time. I wish so much I had known to do that during my much-too-fast taper. I wish to god I had known. And please don't torture yourself with predictions and rigid taper schedules (more on that later) that have nothing to do with reality. I literally had to learn to "talk back" firmly to my brain (in my thoughts - didn't want my neighbors to think I was truly crazy!). That takes effort and a strong will (which I know you have!). And persistence. But it's so very important.

I was "TryingToGetWell" (aka TTGW) on paxilprogress. I also was one of the original members here on Surviving Antidepressants

 

I had horrific and protracted withdrawal from paxil, but now am back to enjoying life with enthusiasm to the max, some residual physical symptoms continued but largely improve. The horror, severe derealization, anhedonia, akathisia, and so much more, are long over.

 

My signature is a temporary scribble from year 2013. I'll rewrite it when I can.

 

If you want to read it, click on http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/209-brandy-anyone/?p=110343

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Caroline,

 

I don't have a child, but I had those same feelings around my family. I can only imagine how much worse it would feel in relation to a child you are responsible for! I quit ADs to get pregnant, and have not had any luck so far, and often have thought it was for the best because I was afraid I wouldn't even be able to feel love for the child with what I was experiencing in early withdrawal.

 

However, let me tell you that it is NOT a certainty that you will suffer for 2 years! I've been going through this for 2 years, but even then it wasn't the hell that I was in at first. Things have gotten better and worse, and like I said I had the really bad "relapse" last month, probably from the hydrocortisone, but I'm back on my feet a couple of weeks later!

 

When I was at my very, very worst, in July of 2011, I also thought the outlook was extremely grim. Then, in September of that same year I was doing remarkably well. By October and part of November I felt almost normal. You will have moments of rest along the way in your recovery. The important part is that you need to think positive and act positive.

 

Don't worry too much about what you are feeling or not feeling towards your son. Know that it is something you can't help and something TEMPORARY. Do whatever you can to be as well as you can. Don't expect immediate results. Try not to expect anything, if you can. I know this is horrible, but you will get through it. And it's not a matter of stiff courage, either. Hug yourself and allow yourself to feel the pain of what you are going through. But don't wallow in it, either.

 

Are you eating well and walking? Or at least stretching if you can't manage that?

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

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Thanks Brandy and Nadia,

 

Sadly I still dont understnad, do you think that by tapering slowly off this 2.5 that I may not go into w/d? I cant see how that is possible when I had already gone into it before this failed ri.

 

Yes I can see that if I go too fast that it could get worse than it is now as inconcievable as that seems I do know it could be even worse. But I cant spend years coming off this and living in hell and then go into hell anyway, from what I have read even the most stable people who have tapered get sent back into hell at 5 months off, even if they had been fine until that point, I wont even be fine until that point. I will still be in hell.

 

Im so so grateful for your advice Brandy, and I wish I believed that I would heal in less than 2 or 3 years but from all the research and reading I have done that just doesnt ring true, those who DO recover and indeed there are many who do not, at all, seem to do so in 2 or 3 years.

 

I have come accross the very rare story where people have healed in 18 months or maybe slightly less but they ARE rare and have no rhyme or reason to them.

 

I will try to hang onto the belief that I have a chance of healing in the end be it in 2 or more years, maybe I will aim for 18 months, but that 18 months will only start when the drug is out of my system, I know you say I can heal whilst its there, but I have seen a million people who taper slowly and carefully and STILL get hit with the w/d once the drug is out, thats the only time that you will know once you have stopped taking it, if I miss a year of my sons life whilst I taper, and then miss another 2 or 3 whilst I go through w/d he will be 8 years old (as he turns 4 soon) and I have missed the whole of my beloved sons childhood.

 

No one can say that an ultra slow taper off this 2.5 will prevent a full blown w/d once I come off the drug and I will fear it all the time, through the whole taper, if I went at the 10% rule it would take me 3 years, and that I am not prepared to do, I would seriously kill myself.

 

I dont know what else to say

damaged by citalopram - severe suffering for 3 years now...no improvement

 

akathsiia, pgad, dp/dr, terror, and so SO many more daily

 

severly disabled and lost everything

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  • Administrator

Yes, you will need to recover from withdrawal syndrome no matter how you taper off 2.5mg citalopram. How long this will take is unknown.

 

While you are stabilizing on that small amount of citalopram, your nervous system is recovering. In addition, that small amount of citalopram is helping to preserve your sleep.

 

Please stop focusing on 2.5mg citalopram being the root of your problems. Your problems are because you tapered too fast and your nervous system is in an uproar. The nervous system thrives on stability. Give it stability, not more uproar.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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But I can recover from withdrawal symdrome right? Ican recover and become myself again?

damaged by citalopram - severe suffering for 3 years now...no improvement

 

akathsiia, pgad, dp/dr, terror, and so SO many more daily

 

severly disabled and lost everything

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Okay... way worse on the editing problems today.. maybe one of the staff would like to take out the previous redundant posts?

 

Add David Healy t this list Alto, in the UK.

Also I am going to ask him to recommend to me anyone local in england who understands this so I hope to have more names

Alto follows the work of David Healy as well as that of other well regarded practitioners/researchers. (A good number of whom hold her in high esteem and draw upon the work she does.) David Healy in particular is very well known, and has been quoted in the New York Times as well as media outlets in GB. Caroline, I'm very surprised you do not realize we already know who he is. Have you read any of the outside sources Alto and others of us rely upon? And you can gain a broader perspective by searching this forum: Go to the search box in the upper right hand side of this screen and (for example) enter David Healy. Choose the search forum option. Or you can search with Google... enter the string... site:survivingantidepressants.org David Healy. Experts don't all agree on the finer points, but there is a general consensus about the 10% (of the previous dose) reduction rate over a month.

 

Our advice is drawn from our own journeys, accounts we have read (in my case hundreds, in Altos, thousands), and well regarded sources. Why do you think we tell you to go slow if there is nothing to be gained by so doing.. worse, lead you on a course that would be more hurtful. Have we been so seriously mislead by the experts?

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Yes of course I know you know who Healy is, its just that he wasnt on the main list thats all.

damaged by citalopram - severe suffering for 3 years now...no improvement

 

akathsiia, pgad, dp/dr, terror, and so SO many more daily

 

severly disabled and lost everything

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