Iggy131313 validation is imminent

[Iggy131313]

Does panicing and fearing the state Im in make things worse for me> I mean delay healing? I am very very stressed and anxious about w/d as well as having the symptoms ontop of that, so does panicing and obssesing hold back my recovery because its like putting myself under more stress and that in itself is acting on my nervous system?

 

I guess the answer to that would be yes, any stress makes things worse and certainly a massive stress like telling myself I will never recover and my life is over would act on the cns?

[Nadia]

Absolutely it can have an effect and snowball! Just like pushing toward a more positive mindframe can have an effect. Of course, your whole inertia right now is toward the negative, so a push toward the positive can seem to do nothing at all. You have to be much more insistent because you are going uphill instead of downhill. But it's still possible.

 

This isn't to say that what you are going through is "just in your head", but thoughts are powerful things. This is why they tell athletes to practice routines in their heads if they can't do it in person. Positive visualization has provable effects even for people who suffer from cancer. The brain is a very powerful organ.

 

Like I said in my thread, you don't have absolute control, but it's like steering a really heavy boat through difficult waters. The things you think and do have an impact, and you just have to patiently navigate. Right now you are at a point where you have really rough waters and you have to steer the boat in a different direction than you are going in (panic, fear, depression)... this is THE most difficult step.

 

Then, once you get the boat starting to go in a better direction, a huge wave might throw you off course again. But the key is not to give up! And just stay your course! Each time you do you are strengthening that "muscle". I have found that when I relapse, I now push myself to wellness much quicker. Sometimes I don't have the energy to push, but we do what we can.

 

Little triumphs count!

[Altostrata]

It's a good sign you're sleeping well, Iggy. This helps the nervous system to heal.

 

What is it you need to do to make an appointment with Dr. Healy?

[Iggy131313]

the appointment has come through tuesday 4th December so just a few days away

[Iggy131313]

I am having numbness and weakness in my left arm and leg, its mainly happening at night, is that normal?

[peggy]

December 4th for your appointment with Dr Healy is great news.

 

Can you download a guided meditation on itunes or a podcast - if you try and do 15 minutes of meditation a few times a day it will have a cumulative effect and help you to calm your nervous system. Even if you feel like it isn't doing anything, just do it and don't make a judgement on it. I am sure you will feel some positive benefit from it.

[Iggy131313]

this may sound very stupid but as I cant find the courage to leave the bedroom at the moment I do my own kind of meditation, where I take myself to a safe place.

 

I imagine Im on a cloud in the sky, it may be heaven but Im not a beliver but anyway, Im in heaven and I am told to rest on a cloud its very peaceful and I am given a puppy (yes sounds even more stupid now eh?) and I lay down with this little puppy on the cloud and a voice is saying ''now rest, rest''

 

I stay in this place for as long as my sub concious will allow, sometimes reality tris to break through with those anxiety and dread feelings so then I start the whole thing again. like I say its like my own meditation

[areyouthere]

this may sound very stupid but as I cant find the courage to leave the bedroom at the moment I do my own kind of meditation, where I take myself to a safe place.

 

I imagine Im on a cloud in the sky, it may be heaven but Im not a beliver but anyway, Im in heaven and I am told to rest on a cloud its very peaceful and I am given a puppy (yes sounds even more stupid now eh?) and I lay down with this little puppy on the cloud and a voice is saying ''now rest, rest''

 

I stay in this place for as long as my sub concious will allow, sometimes reality tris to break through with those anxiety and dread feelings so then I start the whole thing again. like I say its like my own meditation

 

Sounds very good. I have a spot by a lake I "go to" when I need it. I can hear the small waves lapping on the shore. It works. Don't knock it....

[Iggy131313]

ok so I saw De Healy today. he was very nice and listened to everything I said, he validated that it was ssri damage I was dealing with and said he would write to my GP to tell her that this was real.

 

Of course he couldnt offer much in the way of a cure, we alll knew that, I asked about trying another ssri, and he said if 2.5 years on an ssri has done me this much damage that he would recommend that I never touch them again.##

 

He said it would be horrible as I know but I will recover from it...

/

We spoke about getting off this last 2.5mg, ,he recommended I did a 0.5mg drop every 4 weeks, so I would be off the drug by March, but I bet you think thats too fast do you?

 

Im scared of whats gonna happen when Im off, but Im scared of whats happening now too.

 

He said to try not to shutdown but to try my best to be as physically and mentally active as possible.

/

what do you think, Im planning on dropping to 2mg tomorrow after now being on the 2.5 for 5 weeks?

[Altostrata]

Very interesting.

 

Are you feeling better now that Dr. Healy told you you're suffering from withdrawal?

 

I have great regard for Dr. Healy, but I think you'll do better with a 10% per month decrease, as we've discussed so many times before. This will enable you to slide very gradually off the drug without, I would hope, a lot of increased withdrawal symptoms, such as sleeplessness.

[Iggy131313]

do I feel better? no not really but I do feel validated so Im pleased about that...

 

If I did the 10% drops from 2.5 how long would it take alto? probably a year yes? I dont think I can do a year, not when I know Im still going to have a long and very unplesant w/d, if there was a chance that I could taper 10% and then be fine after I would but thats not possible is it?

 

I know things may get worse, and I am scared but I like the idea of going off at 0.5 per month

[strawberry17]

I know you want someone to tell you exactly what to do and how to proceed, and Dr Healy has given you his suggestion, but I don't think anyone can decide for you, I think you have to proceed in the way you feel comfortable with, you haven't got to stick to a rigid 4 weekly taper, if you want to wait longer before making another cut do that, try and listen to what your body and heart is telling you. Have you got a husband/partner who you can chew it over with? did anyone accompany you to your appointment with Dr Healy? one blessing is that you are sleeping well.

 

He is right about keeping active as much as you can, when I've gone through withdrawals I have found tough though it is, making the effort to keep up with outside interests, and taking exercise, long walks if possible, really helps chip away at it.

[Iggy131313]

Sleep yes, but its the only thing I have, I have ZERO quality of life, nothing, I just think about killing myself every second of every day and I have for months, my mother in law came with me and she of course thinks to do as Healy says, so does my hubby, but Im still worried.

 

I think Ill have to go with his suggestion, 9 months or more of tapering off this 2.5 will kill me, especially as I know whats waiting for me at the nd, this RI was a disaster, I decided to come off it after 6 weeks and I have spent now 14 weeks tapering off, another 9 months or more will kill me...

 

I know you say I am recovering as I taper, but Healy seems to think that recovery starts when the drug is out?

[Iggy131313]

Alto I dont have the brain power to work it out, what would a 10% taper look like?

[jr1985]

Thanks for sharing how it went with Healy. As I suspected, he more or less told you what you already knew. But I imagine it feels good to be validated. It has been recommended I see him, but given the costs of travel/private treatment (I doubt I could get it on NHS) and the fact he told you what you already know, I'm just gonna see how it goes by myself for now. If its a disaster then ill reconsider of course.

 

10% could take a while, yes, but I think it depends in where your symptoms are coming from. If its withdrawal then you're going to want to go slow. What if you made a 10% reduction for the first month, then if you feel better you can go faster?

 

PS. did he mention what kind of exercise you should do? Walking or something more strenuous?

[Iggy131313]

Jr you can ONLY see him through the NHS and you have the right to choose, its called patient choice, you just say patient choice to your dr and they have to refer you!

 

he said swimming, walking whatever you can do and to start small and build it up over time, he said just as you taper down with a drug you should taper up with the exercise buuiilding it up, he acknowledged it when I said that too much exercise can cause the symptoms to get worse and said thats why you should do what you can handle and build on it.

 

As for my taper, I just dont know, I thought seeing Healy today would cement it and I would do what he suggested but as always Im back to not knowing...my lasy drop was 50% it hit me hard, but it was 50% so doing a drop of 0.5 is better than that surly? Im not sure where my symptoms are coming from, I imagine a combination of the w/d I am already going through from my CT in Feb, the fact that I had such a bad reaction to trying the drug again, and the drops I have been making since, but its all hell.

[Iggy131313]

But its not just physical exercise that he recommends he says mental exercise, interacting with people etc, he thinks it will help the brain make connections etc and also help to refashion nerve endings.

[Skyler]

But its not just physical exercise that he recommends he says mental exercise, interacting with people etc, he thinks it will help the brain make connections etc and also help to refashion nerve endings.

Iggy.. stop trying to figure it all out and reduce by 10% off the previous months dose until you step off at the end? Be good to your nerves and take the decision away from yourself...

 

We'll help you figure the drop you need to take month by month.. I've had it worked out for two months in advance several times now.. but every time I get ready to enter, I envision your wanting to know up front all the way through.. Seriously, I tend to obsess, and when I get into an endless loop it makes me CRAZY! I can only imagine how being fixated on this is making you feel...not so good methinks.

[Iggy131313]

I cant do it month by month, I need a plan and I need to know long its gonna take, It has to be 6 months, I really cant do any more than 6 months, please, someone work me out a taper schedule over 6 months please please, Ive been on 2.5 for 5 weeks now and I have to titrate the liquid so I can do either 0.5mg drops or 0.25 drops anything else will be impossible to do accuratly with titrating, please help me

[Iggy131313]

what do you think of this

 

2mg - 1 month

1.5mg - 1 month

1.25 i month

1mg 1 month

0.75 1 month

0.5 1 month

off?

 

thats a compromise isnt it? making smaller drops towards the end, that way Im doing what healy said and also what you guys think and throwing in what I want which is a time frame?

[Iggy131313]

I could even do a couple of weeks on 0.25 before I step off?

[Skyler]

I cant do it month by month, I need a plan and I need to know long its gonna take, It has to be 6 months, I really cant do any more than 6 months, please, someone work me out a taper schedule over 6 months please please, Ive been on 2.5 for 5 weeks now and I have to titrate the liquid so I can do either 0.5mg drops or 0.25 drops anything else will be impossible to do accuratly with titrating, please help me

Iggy, I don't know how you should do a 6 month plan.. I had to go month by month with the person who coached me. A 10% drop will take you to 2.25 mgs, so you reduce by .25 mgs. I'm not sure how that works out in mgs, what mgs is to a cc... people more familiar with ADs need to chime in on that.

 

I'm stymied as to why you only have 6 moths... something happens at that point? Do you run out of medication? That would be unfortunate, as you will have fewer symptoms longer by keeping to the 10% of the previous month rate. You can opt to go off sooner, but this will delay the overall healing time.

[Iggy131313]

perhaps you think I have this all wrong, but Im going to have a 2 or 3 year w/d once I come off the drug, ive read enough accounts to see that i think, I know Brandy will kill me for saying that as she tells me that that is NOT guarenteed.

 

But I have been suffering for 5 months, if I take another 9 months or more to taper off then thats over a year in hell before I even start to go into the w/d phase.

 

As I have said before, If my life was livable now, if I could have any quality of life at all then I would be happy to go slow, but I dont at all, and if Im going to have to suffer for a few years in w/d then im going to spend the next 9 months or however long it takes not only in hell but scared stiff of whats to come.

 

If there was a guarentee that I wouldnt have a protracted w/d when I come off then yes i can see the point but Alto has already said that I will still have to recover from w/d symdrome no matter how I taper off the 2.5.

 

So spending the next god knows how long coming off this 2.5 and having the dread of whats coming and suffering with no quality of life for all that time, and then going into w/d for years after that, as I was already in w/d before this failed RI, I swear I wouldnt be able to take it and would become a harm to myself, I cant take longer than 6 months to come off, I started tapering off after 6 weeks on, how can I have 6 weeks on and a year to taper off?

 

I know I am being annoying, I knnow that but I cant help it, Healy says healing doesnt start until the drug is out.

[Iggy131313]

I was feeling reletavly calm but now Ive gone into a panic attack again, I cant cope with this, I thought Healy would give me the right advice, but you say its wrong and I should take longer, how long? Is it guarenteed to make things better for me? is it guarenteed to shorten my withdrawal?

[Skyler]

I was feeling reletavly calm but now Ive gone into a panic attack again, I cant cope with this, I thought Healy would give me the right advice, but you say its wrong and I should take longer, how long? Is it guaranteed to make things better for me? is it guarenteed to shorten my withdrawal?

Iggy... there is NO guarantee. I think we give you the best advice, but you and only you can decide. There is no way anyone can absorb your anxiety, as much as they (me in this case) would like to. This is really what you are asking us to do. Can you see what you are looking for is a way forward that will take away your fear? Unfortunately, your withdrawal symptoms come in the form of anxiety on jet skis, and we can only tell you how best to minimize them.

[Timinjapan]

Iggy, thanks very much for writing about your visit to Dr. Healy. Sometimes it is impossible not to panic, so don't put yourself down for that. But breathing slow and deep will help put the brakes on.

 

Dr. Healy told you you also need mental exercise. Good. Planning and carrying out a taper is good mental exercise. I think your compromise plan is workable. So you can put that into effect and see how it goes. People are recommending 10% per month because your brain is sensitive to dose changes, but going faster after a failed RI may be OK too. Dr. Healy seems to think so.

 

Best of luck with your taper and your journey through and out of hell.

[Skyler]

Dr. Healy told you you also need mental exercise. Good. Planning and carrying out a taper is good mental exercise. I think your compromise plan is workable. So you can put that into effect and see how it goes. People are recommending 10% per month because your brain is sensitive to dose changes, but going faster after a failed RI may be OK too. Dr. Healy seems to think so.

Thanks Tim, I get so much into the 'ten % solution' as to sometimes lose the larger picture, and I agree with you... well said. I choose the slow boat, but that is me, and this does not mean it's right for everyone in all circumstances. Caroline, we'll support you whatever you decide.

 

Tim, Welcome to the forum.

[jr1985]

Iggy, have you read any books by Dr Claire Weekes? I found them really helpful when I had withdrawal anxiety. You can buy her book "Hope and Help for Your Nerves" from amazon, or iTunes has an audio version. I actually prefer the audio because her calm voice is very reassuring. .

[Altostrata]

Iggy, I suggest you start with a 10% reduction to see how it affects your sleep.

 

It seemed the reductions were affecting your sleep, remember? We don't want you to be suffering withdrawal insomnia on top of everything else.

 

(Did you tell Dr. Healy about this?)

 

A 10% reduction on 2.5mg would be .25mg. The dose would be 2.25mg.

 

Hold that for 2 weeks and see if your sleep is stable. If it is, make another cut after 3 or 4 weeks.

 

If it does not affect your sleep, you may be able to make reductions of 10% more often every month, perhaps every 2 weeks, totaling 20% per month. That is the compromise.

 

Here is a 10% reduction schedule based on a starting dosage of 2.5mg:

 

1) 2.25mg

2) 2.02

3) 1.82

4) 1.64

5) 1.48

6) 1.33

7) 1.20

8) 1.08

9) 0.97

10) 0.87

11) 0.79

12) 0.71

13) 0.64

14) 0.58

15) 0.52

16) 0.47

17) 0.42

18) 0.38

19) 0.34

20) 0.31

21) 0.28

22) 0.25

23) 0.23

22) 0.20

23) 0.18

24) 0.16

25) 0.15

24) 0.14

25) 0.13

26) 0.12

27) 0.11

28) 0.10

none (maybe)

 

Whether this takes 28 months or 28 weeks or 14 weeks depends on the tolerance of your nervous system. You wouldn't want to go faster than that, right?

[Iggy131313]

Hi Alto, I have already dropped to 2mg. I will see how I am, Im slightly confused at the 28 months 28 weeks 14 weeks thing, will I know within a week how things are after my drop? obviously Im not going to spend the next 2 years tapering off this 2.5, Im not going to do 14 months either. I cant think of anything worse. not when I know whats waiting at the end.

 

Also as I have said I cant do those very accurate cuts, I have no money for scales or anything I havent been able to pay the rent for 5 months now, I have a 5mg syringe and have cut down to 2mg by titrating 1 drop (2.5) with 5ml of water and have taken 4ml of that water, so 2mg citalopram.

 

I have done that for 2 days now (including today) its also so hard to tell if a drop has had an impact on me, how do I tell when my days are so unpreidictable, its eaither hell or super hell and the state I am in each day doesnt seem to have a catalyst. should I use sleep as a measure?

 

the smallest cauts I can do with this titrating is 0.25mg and even that isnt as accurate as the 0.5mg drops

[Iggy131313]

Oh and regarding my sleep, its hard for me to get to sleep at night, has been from the start but once I do (usually around 2 or 3am) I sleep until 11 or 12, and dont wake up during the night.

[Skyler]

Hi Caroline.. Alto spent some time working out the a step by step schedule on your request.. She did not ask for a firm commit of any sort, and she gives freely and generously of her time. No word of thanks?

[Iggy131313]

Im sorry, your totally right, Alto, thankyou so much for trying to help me and for spending the time working out that taper for me, Im sorry all I can feel is panic and fear, its unlike me not to be grateful.

[Iggy131313]

and your right Alto I want to go with what my cns can tolerate, so now I have dropped to 2mg a 0.5mg drop, should I monitor myself by my sleep?

[Altostrata]

Yes, Iggy, if your sleep deteriorates over a few days, it's too big a drop for you.

[Iggy131313]

thanks Alto, I really am sorry about how abrupt I was earlier, your post scared me, very much and sent me into a panic, please forgive my manners it was horrid of me.

 

You would all be very proud of me, Ive taken what Dr Healy said onn board and today I went to a massive shopping mall, then walked for a while and then picked up my son from school...it was a horror ride, every second of it, but I did it, Im really trying to be physically and mentally active.

 

my main issues are

 

1) severe anxiety and aggitation

2) anhedonia - cant connect to anything positive at all, in fact when I think of something I know I like I actually feel fear or anxiety.

3) numb limbs - this is fairly new, I wake up with completely dead legs I cannot feel them at all, I can move them though and when I start to wiggle them I get the feeling back.

 

of course I have many other things, this week I have not had DP or DR and no weird voices shouting my name as I fall asleep.

 

I havent had akathisia since dropping from 20.

 

Thanks again Alto and please accept my apologies I really mean them.