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dalsaan

Sleep and amino poop out - rotate aminos

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dalsaan

Hi everyone

 

I've been struggling with my sleep -again. Very broken from 11-3 then very little afterward. I often have a great initial response to a new supplement, particularly Amino acids. I have posted some of my sleep successes here. Trouble is, it doesn't last. I find after 3-4 days the effect wears off. Happened with taurine and more recently Glycine. This happens despite the fact that I am an eternal optimist (ironic isn't it, given what I'm trying to off)

 

This persistent insomnia and very temporary amino outcomes has started to get me wondering whether I will be able to go any lower that the dose I'm on now. My rule is always to wait until my sleep is manageable but that's not happening. My other thought has been to rotate the aminos so that I don't build up the tolerance to them (I've purchased a new one today (inositol).

 

This goes against e stability/minimum change philosophy but what's a girl to do. Does anyone have any thoughts/experience with a rotation of aminos to avoid them pooping out?

 

Advice much appreciated as always

 

Dalsaan

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peggy

Hi Dalsaan,

 

What dose of mirtazapine are you on at the moment? Is it possible that you tapered a bit far and you are 'catching up' so to speak? Maybe waiting until sleep was manageable is not enough with a drug that has such a STRONG hold on sleep.

 

I have absolutely no idea about rotating the supplements, but i can't see how it would hurt - if you had seven different supplements you could take a different one every night of the week :lol:

 

Seriously though, I guess you are doing some exercise everyday? I also don't know how this would work with drug withdrawal insomnia, but what if you were to get up when you wake up and don't go back to sleep after 10 mins - stay up and fold washing or iron or something until you are tired again and then go back to bed - if you don't fall asleep in 10 minutes get up again - and keep on going. Go to bed at the same time each night and get up at the same time. Believe it or not, before i changed professions i worked as a nurse - Once a year i ran a 6 week 'sleep better's group in a community health setting with a psychologist. This was well received and worked well for people - its a bit like controlled crying with children. The first few nights some people got NO sleep, but when they persevered they all ended up sleeping 6, 7 or 8 hours a night. They just really reprogrammed their bodies to sleep when they went to bed. But we excluded people who had other issues (like depression) in case it made them worse. When i was doing this job i didn't have my 'no sleep' phobia - i seem to lose all my common sense and ability to think reasonably when i am in withdrawal - I am two different people, like Jekyll and Hyde :lol:

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compsports

Hi Dalsaan,

 

I am sorry to hear about your experiences after you were hopeful about the glycine. But I sadly can't say I am surprised since this happens with sleep meds.

 

You have nothing to lose my rotating them in my opinion.

 

Hang in there.

 

CS

 

 

 

Hi everyone

 

I've been struggling with my sleep -again. Very broken from 11-3 then very little afterward. I often have a great initial response to a new supplement, particularly Amino acids. I have posted some of my sleep successes here. Trouble is, it doesn't last. I find after 3-4 days the effect wears off. Happened with taurine and more recently Glycine. This happens despite the fact that I am an eternal optimist (ironic isn't it, given what I'm trying to off)

 

This persistent insomnia and very temporary amino outcomes has started to get me wondering whether I will be able to go any lower that the dose I'm on now. My rule is always to wait until my sleep is manageable but that's not happening. My other thought has been to rotate the aminos so that I don't build up the tolerance to them (I've purchased a new one today (inositol).

 

This goes against e stability/minimum change philosophy but what's a girl to do. Does anyone have any thoughts/experience with a rotation of aminos to avoid them pooping out?

 

Advice much appreciated as always

 

Dalsaan

 

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dalsaan

Hi Peggy

 

I'm on 2ml of the mirtazapine. I've been in that for a while now.

 

I've tried the getting up stuff. It didn't work and when I have to work in the morning it's too much.

 

Fingers crossed on the inositol and rotation strategy (pending other feedback)

 

Cheers

 

Dalsaan

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peggy

I totally understand not being able to do 'controlled sleeping' - you really have to be off work to do something as drastic as that.

 

I am looking forward to hearing how the inositol goes tonight.

 

Sending you sleepy time zzzzzz's

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Nikki

Dalsaan....

 

There are CD's that are targeted for sleep that you listen to while laying down at night.

What about journaling about the sleep while in bed? You can address a letter Dear Sleep, and journal about whatever and keep going till you get it up and out on paper.

 

You can tell sleep that you need to draw truce. This practice is used by some clinicians for people with HIV and other illnesses. It can't hurt.

 

I need to take my own advise. Last night I worked until Midnight and I have a huge issue 'winding down' when I work after 6-7pm, especially if I eat when I come home.

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tezza

Hi Dalsaan,

 

I'm so sorry about your sleep problems. That has to be very troublesome for someone that has to work the next day.

 

I don't think there is an issue with rotating supplements that aid with sleep. The way I understand it, the problem comes with meds or supplements that cross the blood brain barrier.

 

Tryptophan is one that is believed to possibly cause 'down regulation' and Alto told me I could take it occasionally, so I think you would be ok in rotating yours.

 

I hope it gets better soon!

 

Hugs,

Tezza

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Altostrata

Absolutely, rotate the aminos.

 

This is very common with supplements, they'll work for a while, they stop working. Maybe they get topped up and your system can't feel the additions any more.

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Francis

Dalsaan- Im not sure how we havent seen one anothers posts before...

The same thing happened with me and glycine- it didnt make me sleep more, but I still felt more rested from the few hours of sleep I got. Also happened with inositol back in December. Maybe its time I gave inositol a try again. I took glycine for a week, was off it for a week, tried it again and... nothing. I wonder how long I have to be away from it to have it work again... and conversely, I wonder how frequently (as with your rotation plan) I can take it without it "pooping out."

 

Ive always loved sleep, but never before did I feel like my entire life was wrapped up in it. I remain hopeful that I can develop a more healthy relationship with sleep and that my body can heal to a point when I can relax/sleep adequately. I sure am hopeful that this is just withdrawal and my body can still heal.

 

Francis

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dalsaan

Thanks everyone for your help

 

I'm going to try a 3 day rotation ie take nothing for longer than 3 days in a row and see how that goes.

 

I've tried all the cd stuff and I use a sleep hypnosis app on my phone with sleep headphones to get to sleep. This doesn't work in terms of getting back to sleep when I've woken up early in the night

 

Anyway see how the rotation policy goes. I'm thinking the trick is to rotate before poop out sets in or you may have to wait a fair while before it works again

 

Francis, let me know how you get on

 

Dalsaan

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basildev

Hi Dalsaan,

 

So sorry you're having trouble sleeping.

 

My answer is: absolutely - this happens to me with any and every supplement I take (amino or otherwise). I took melatonin for a few days, that was great then didn't work at all. Same with Lactium.

 

I don't know what it is about my body but it seems to adapt really quickly to any 'foreign body'. I'm not one to take supplements just for the sake of it. They have to make me feel different in a good way. Maybe as Alto says, rotate them and see if that helps.

 

I'm no expert on tapering but I'd want to stabilize my sleeping before lowering the dose.

 

I hope you get some good quality sleep soon.

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Jemima

Have you tried Phosphatidyl Serine? It's supposed to help regulate cortisol. I'm taking it now, 100 mg. at lunch and dinner and it seems to help prevent early morning awakenings.

 

So sorry you're having all these problems with sleep. They seem to be one of the worst parts of withdrawal.

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dalsaan

Hi Jemima

 

I have tried it, didnt do much at the time but I think I was in extreme withdrawal. Might try it again

 

cheers

 

Dalsaan

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Francis

Dalsaan, so how has the rotation been working for you? I pooped out on the inositol, unfortunately. It worked great for around 5 days and now nothing. I guess your 3 days max plan might be a better plan for me too. I think tryptophan helped me in the past but only for a few days, so maybe I can try that again as well. Which calming aminos are you rotating? I wonder how long I need to be off the inositol and glycine before they can help again.

Im definitely having cortisol surges in the morning again, waking up around 4am sweaty, heart beating hard and chest tightness. Ugh.

When I sleep and wake up calm, its like pure magic- I feel wonderful and my day goes by so smoothly no matter what happens externally!

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baffled

hi there i have been using tryptophan to fall asleep for about a month now it seems to work most nights. I tried melatonin but it didn't work for me but i wonder if i should go back to 5htp and rotate with the tryptophan??? Tryptophan worked best for me but it could be coming to and end it hasn't been working lately. But i don't know if this is because i am trying to start to go back to the gym and on the nights i workout i can't sleep no matter what i take..Im hoping this will eventually calm down. but for now i just keep taking the tryptophan because there is nothing like falling asleep and waking up its wonderful and i feel human.. on the nights i can't sleep trying to sleep is the worst part of all this its been alitlle over 3 months now,,

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baffled

yeah I'm pretty sure the tryptophan is not working anymore haven't been able to fall asleep for a few days now. there is nothing like that tossing and turning to make me dread going to sleep.. But i keep taking the tryptophan in hopes it will work. Im gonna try and not take it tonight but i wonder at this point if it is working like a placebo just because i think its gonna work eventually again.. I don't know if my nervous system can heal if i can't get any sleep?

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indigo

I started taking 50 mg of 5-HTP at night. It did help me sleep but invariably woke with a headache. Because it seemed to be helping me sleep and improve my mood I kept taking it in spite of the headaches. Then after a couple of weeks I noticed I was getting very anxious and weepy.

I hadn't been dropping from prozac for eight months but this felt like bad withdrawal symptoms. I stopped the 5-HTP and the anxiety and crying let up. Wonder if anyone else had this kind of experience.

I also tried taking 500 mg of L-Tryptophan in the mornings with B6. I always had a strange prickling sensation in my skin, mild nausea and feeling out of breath afterwards. A bit like a flush after taking Niacin but not the same. I can't find any reports of this as a known side effect. Anyone else had this experience or know the cause?

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Rockingchaircat

I started taking 50 mg of 5-HTP at night. It did help me sleep but invariably woke with a headache. Because it seemed to be helping me sleep and improve my mood I kept taking it in spite of the headaches. Then after a couple of weeks I noticed I was getting very anxious and weepy.

I hadn't been dropping from prozac for eight months but this felt like bad withdrawal symptoms. I stopped the 5-HTP and the anxiety and crying let up. Wonder if anyone else had this kind of experience.

I also tried taking 500 mg of L-Tryptophan in the mornings with B6. I always had a strange prickling sensation in my skin, mild nausea and feeling out of breath afterwards. A bit like a flush after taking Niacin but not the same. I can't find any reports of this as a known side effect. Anyone else had this experience or know the cause?

I got a lot of that during my times of taking 5-HTP. I got tired of it.

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M1111

Hi fellow insomniacs..

 

sleep has been one of the biggest withdrawal symptoms for me..im 1 and a half years off fluroxetine SSRI and I have no trouble falling asleep..but get 3..4..5 hours max a night..what I would do to get 8 or 9 hours of sleep. My body feels hot and agitated when I wake, i have no anxiety just an inability to stay asleep..Weird thing is most days I am able to get through work etc but I am heavily brain fogged and surreal for most days. I haven't tried any Amino acids yet and i'm wondering could they help with sleep? Which ones should i try?

 

Any suggesstions i'd be so grateful..i'm beyond desperate right now x

 

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manymoretodays

What have you tried so far M1111?

We have another topic on Tips to help sleep-that awful W/D insomnia  that you might find helpful.

I'll leave your post here though......in case any of the amino users come around.

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