Skymanrob: Losing Hope

[skymanrob]

Hi all!

 

My history below.. i am lost and dont know where to go from here.

 

Im desperate as im self employed and scared to go to work! 

Venlafaxine 150mg 2 x 75mg per day, tapered far too fast (Due to Doctors Advice). Extreme withdrawal, depersonalisation, suicidal feelings.

Doctor reinstated dose at 150 mg xr, felt horrendous, constipation, disconnected unable to work.

 

Doctor then upped my dose to 300mg all the above symtoms but even worse.

Again followed doctors advice on discontinuing venlafaxine had awful withdrawals but no panic attacks.

Doctor perscribed sertraline to help withdraw which got rid of the brain zaps but was not helping in general so perscibed me citalopram starting at 20 and now to 40mg.

 

I am also taking Diazapam up to 8mg per day.

I am now experiencing HUGE anxiety and agrophobic symptoms and wondering if i am going through prolonged withdrawal from initial decrease in Venlafaxine .

 

Would i be better off re instating Venlafaxine at a lower dosage or do i stick with the Citalopram?

 

I do not want to turn agrophobic i am very scared i am or is this the Citaloprams initial side effects?

 

Any help would be a God send.

Edited October 13, 2013 by Karma
Added member name to introduction

[mammaP]

Hi Skyman, venlafaxine is a particularly nasty drug to get off and doctors don't have a clue

about tapering, usually a far too fast taper and reinstatement +more drugs when it goes wrong.

 

I'm glad you came here, it's the very best place to be, you will get the best advice and lots of support.

I'm not in a position to advise you but someone will be along who can. It will help if you can put your drug history 

in your signature line, what you were on, when you started tapering, and when other drugs were started.

Staff will be able to give the best advice when they have all the info.   Hang in there it will get better. 

[skymanrob]

Thanks MamaP its super scary though as i have just landed a huge contract at work and im on the verge of pulling out of it purely because of this anxiety/panic.

 

Its soul destroying. :-(

[Karma]

Hi Rob

 

Welcome to the forum.  How long ago did you completely discontinue effexor?  How long were you off effexor before you started these other drugs?  How long have you been on citalopram?

 

At the point that you were off of effexor and started to have withdrawals we would have recommended that you re-instate at a lesser dose than you were originally on. The actual amount wwould have dependent on how long you were completely off of effexor.

 

When we rapidly or abruptly stop our SSRIs it seems to sensitize our central nervous system and when we reintroduce the drug, we need to go with a lower dose.

 

After you answer the questions I asked, we will be able to help you figure this out a little better.

 

Karma

[skymanrob]

Hey Karma i stopped effexor roughy 2 months ago, i would say i have been on citalopram for a month now 2 weeks on 20mg then upped dose to 40mg. I had a HUGE panic attack roughly the same time i started Citalopram and have been struggling with anxiety/panic since. I am in a very difficult position where i dont know if i continue with cit or reinstate venlafaxine.

 

Thanks for your help!!

[Altostrata]

Welcome, skymanrob.

 

It's very possible the large dose of citalopram is causing your reaction. When faced with withdrawal syndrome, doctors often try to pound the symptoms down with overlarge doses of drugs, including the benzo that you're on.

 

It's possible only 5mg of citalopram might reduce withdrawal symptoms from Effexor.

 

If I were you, I'd try reducing citalopram to 20mg to see if your symptoms also decrease. You might also be having a paradoxical reaction to the benzo. How long have you been on it? What's your dosing pattern?

 

See this topic about reducing citalopram http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2023-tips-for-tapering-off-celexa-citalopram/

 

I have to caution, there are no easy answers for this. There are some doctors in the UK who you might be able to talk to, at least. See http://tinyurl.com/7cp8l8v

 

I know David Healy isn't close, he's in North Wales, but he's probably the most knowledgeable one. He will see people out of catchment.

[Fitby50]

Hang in there skymanrob, WE ALL know how horribly scary this can be, the feelings of helplessness and going crazy only wanting someone to tell us exactly what we need to do to feel better ASAP.  The best thing to try and do, even though it is so hard, is to have patience and faith it will get better, but only slowly.  I got off of Effexor too fast as well and had late hitting withdrawl. My doc tried to put me on Generic Lexapro and I felt worse within a day of taking the small dose, I gave it a try for 4 days and had to stop because the anxiety it was causing was worse then being on nothing at all.  I had taken this same drug before in my lifetime and had no issues with it at all, and actually did good on it.  Sometimes its hard to know what is causing what.  There can be so many factors that make our symptoms better or worse so we really have to track what we take or eat or do, so maybe we can find a pattern, but then sometimes we feel bad or better for no reason at all, so its not easy, hence having patience and faith.  I think one thing most of us have found that helps ease the anxiety and crazy mind, is exercise, as long as its not overdone.  Try and read as much as you can on this website, it has a wealth of knowledge. Just remember there is no QUICK fix even though we ALL want one.

[skymanrob]

Alto- My dosing with Diazapam is spardic i take it as and when i feel i need it (usualy before work) or other events where i will be leaving the area meetings etc.

 

Fitby- Im also starting to wonder if joining a Gym would help me releive some anxietys but then again i get anxious going to the gym catch 22.

 

Woke up this morning after a terrile nights sleep feeling Panicy and hopeless, im wondering if a small reinstatment of effexor may be the best course of treatment here?

 

I have an appointment with the doctor at 11.30 so im wondering what course i should take. At least on Venlafaxine i didnt have crippling anxiety and panic.

 

I am really worried now as i have work pilling up and im too anxious to tackle it, what do i do? power through? I am so scared of having another panic attack away from home, this is why i feel im developing agraphobia or is this just the Citalopram messing with me? Do i stick it out???

 

Thanks again every one.

[Petunia]

Hi Rob,

I'm sorry you are having such an awful time at the moment.  I read through your thread and its not surprising with all the changes of medication and dosages in such a short time, it sounds to me like your nervous system has become destabilized by it all.

 

My understanding is that for your symptoms to settle down, you need to stabilize on the lowest possible dose of a medication you can tolerate and then just wait.  Ideally, it should be the medication which you are currently on, because what seems to happen is that the more changes you make, the worse it gets.

 

I'm also a little concerned about the way you are taking Diazapam.  When taken irregularly, especially when someone is in withdrawal, benzos can cause inter dose, rebound effects, which might be making your symptoms worse.

 

I'm still fairly new here, so hopefully someone with a bit more experience will be along soon to add their suggestions.  I hope your doctor appointment goes well.

 

Petu.

[skymanrob]

Thanks for the reply Petu, do you suggest taking the Diazapam more regularly? The Doctors advice was two 3 times daily.

 

Im worried that a decrease in the Citalopram may make me feel worse.

 

Im also really debating to go back on the venlafaxine as i had no panic etc on that?

 

I will see what the doctor says as he did mention re introducing the Venlafaxine.

 

I dont bloody know anymore haha! 

[Petunia]

It's very possible the large dose of citalopram is causing your reaction. When faced with withdrawal syndrome, doctors often try to pound the symptoms down with overlarge doses of drugs, including the benzo that you're on.It's possible only 5mg of citalopram might reduce withdrawal symptoms from Effexor.If I were you, I'd try reducing citalopram to 20mg to see if your symptoms also decrease. You might also be having a paradoxical reaction to the benzo.

 

I quoted Alto's earlier suggestion because she really is the most experienced person here when it comes to getting off these medications.  From what I've learned, it seems that most doctors don't really understand withdrawal, let alone know what to do about it.

 

Ideally, I think in the long run, you would be better not taking any Diazapam at all, but if you can't manage without it, then taking it on a regular basis would be less destabilizing to your nervous system.  But, then you are going to become addicted to another medication and will eventually have to taper and withdraw from that.

 

If I were you, I would see what your doctor says, wait for a few more suggestions from members here and then make the best decision you can.  But repeating what Alto also wrote - there are no easy answers for this.  At this stage, its unlikely that anything you take will relieve all your current symptoms, it can often take several weeks to stabilize after any change in medication, sometimes longer.

 

Have a look at our symptoms and self-care section for non-drug methods of managing symptoms:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/8-symptoms-and-self-care/

[skymanrob]

Hi Petu 

 

Just arrived back from the doctors surgery and he has suggested i taper down to 20mg of Citalopram for a week then reduce Citalopram to 10 mg and reinstate Venlafaxine 37.5mg twice daily.

 

I can see the logic as my panic attacks really have only been since i was Citalopram...

 

Im still lost because ive got you guys who are really helpful and then the Doctor with almost conflicting recomendations.

 

Ahh

[Meimeiquest]

People come with different goals...are you here to get off meds or to feel better after your med changes?

[Altostrata]

Skyman, as you are an experiment of one, it's impossible to predict which avenue will be best for you.

 

What we've seen is that doctors tend to overmedicate withdrawal syndrome and make it worse.

 

What we know now is that it seemed sertraline helped a bit; 40mg citalopram is not helping. Switching back to Effexor may or may not help.

 

The nervous system is dynamic. What worked before may not work again as your nervous system has become sensitized by withdrawal. You cannot fix a nervous system by formula.

 

In situations like these, making changes slowly and systematically is the best way to reduce confounding factors.

 

Try reducing the citalopram first to 20mg and then 10mg by stages of at least a week and see if that helps.

 

I would minimize taking the diazepam. It also incurs physical dependency and you will need eventually to taper off that as well.

[Trying]

I,am not an Einstein in this, but could,t it be that the diazepam is chausing the problems?

 

I had the same thing happening to me on the oxazepam, i worked againsed me....

 

Just a thought.....

 

Whising you well.

 

X

[skymanrob]

An update.. Fellings of extreme panic then feelings (momentaraly) of hope, could this be symtoms than the citalopram is making me worse before better.

 

Trying.. Unfortunatly without the diazapam i would probably be six foot under by now i have been using it to tough out the deep despair following the advice from one of doctor Claire weekes' books.

 

Im wondering if i should give the Citalopram another week or so in hope of stabilization before i mess with any more dosages or decreases like the doctor advised?

 

And to those wondering i am looking to be Anti Depressant free but right now i just need to stabilize, after a year of withdrawal i just want some rest.

 

You guys are all so helpfull especially for those of us from the UK where getting the correct help is basicly impossible.

[kaza31]

hi skymanrob

 

welcome to the forum

 

what amount of Effexor are you currently taking? I saw in your signature you were on 300mg and your were withdrawing??

 

I too am withdrawing off Effexor 150mg since February, down to 87mg its been very tough.. im currently giving my body a break, this past 5 weeks and  maybe even for another month or so before I reduce again I just need a rest from it all...

 

I agree with you about getting proper help and advice, I never found any doctor understood my withdrawal...my doctor keeps telling me im going to slow with my taper, but I keep telling him he isn't living inside my body so he cant possibly know how bad its been, and ill go as slow as I feel is right for me.. he usually just gives me "that look" of you don't know what your talking about lol..

 

this forum has been a godsend, and the only way ive found out lots of information that has helped my withdrawal immensely..

 

anyway I hope you start to feeling even a little better soon

 

all the best

Kx

[skymanrob]

Hey Kazza im sorry to hear that! It seems most of us are on a pretty rubbish journey here, im not on any Effexor at the moment i came of far to quickly (following doctors advice) and now im paying for it!!

[Abilifyneedhelp88]

Hi Skyman,

 

As far as your work goes, I would try to keep my mind on it as much as possible because then you are focusing on that and not your symptoms. Unfortunately the doctors are so eager to help but end up not helping at all and as I found out there really are no guidelines for discontinuation on most of these drugs as I found out with my situation. But you need to listen to your body at this point and perhaps try some complementary medicine for some of your symptoms. We tend to turn to doctors thinking they have all the answers and even when we are in their precense it seems like they do or we are hoping that they do but all too often, they are the source of our suffering when it comes to psychiatry where it is hit or miss. It sounds like you are beginning to realize this (He took you down on your dose, you had symptoms, you went back to him, he gave you more, you continue to have symptoms,)It sounds like somehow you need to break the cycle. These doctors can sound very convincing as if they know the answer but most times they are just as clueless and not wanting liability issues. Keep Reading on this board but remember each person is different and on different combinations for different periods of time and everybody has different life issues. Hope you find the answers you are looking for but you know yourself the best. Better than any doctor...

[kaza31]

hi skymanrob

 

sorry I read your post wrong, I thought you were still on Effexor withdrawing but you are off them..

 

I can relate to how your feeling, my first attempt at withdrawal was too quick(like you upon doctors advice) and when I stopped I felt horrendous, I had severe anxiety, depersonalisation like you described as well as a host of other symptoms....

I only wish I had of know about this site then to get advice from someone as stupidly I went back on the full dosage again after doctors recommendations instead of reinstating just at a small dosage.. this will be my second attempt and im doing it very slowly this time

 

 

one bit of advice I would give is to keep a diary/journal through this process.... 

 

I have done this from the very beginning when I first came of Effexor too fast and became ill.. every day I wrote down how I felt, symptoms etc just to keep a record, its also useful for doctor visits to show proof of what you are going through..

 

when I began my second attempt at withdrawal of Effexor I continued to journal,

its a good way of seeing a pattern developing with regards reduction of meds.. I found after I reduced my meds for eg I would have symptoms for up to maybe a week to ten days, then I would start to feel better, until  I felt somewhat normal again... then when I reduced  my meds again, I would notice the same thing happening..

 

its also a good reminder to be able to look back at how far you have come, and also a way to show that you have had good days through withdrawal especially at times when things feel so bad for you.... 

 

are you currently trying to reduce the citalopram or are you trying to just let your body stabilise for a while??

 

Kx

[skymanrob]

Hi everyone.

 

After finally getting referred to a specialist he advised me to come off the Venlafaxine doing alternate day taper method from 37.5 - 0 - 37.5 - 0 and so on. I ignored this method and did 18.75 daily. He also perscribed me olanzapine because i said i felt like i was loosing my mind.

 

I was in such a mess after the 18.75 - 0 i rang my surgery and requested Fluoxitine as i had read that it helps with the withdrawal and it did! It stopped the brain zapps.

 

I felt ok for about 7 days.

 

I had an appointment with the specialist 2 days ago and he was furious about the fact i had taken the Fluoxetine as his words are he wants to see me without any medication in my system so he can persribe the correct medication.

 

At the appointment he perscribed me Atarax an anti histimine and told me to taper of the prozac doing 20 - 0 - 20 - 0 for two weeks then off.

 

This all bring me to now where i have had the worst 2 days of my life, i feel suicidal (thoughts ruminating), depressed, no appetite, extreme anxiety.

 

It is three weeks till my next appointment and i cant do 3 weeks of this hell.

 

So to Clarify i am on 

 

Fluoxitine 20mg alternate days

Olanzapine 5 mg daily

Atarax 50 mg daily

 

I honestly want to stop the Fluoxitine as i belive its that making me feel so horrific, i called the specialist and his assistant said its just anxiety etc etc, i feel like im being tortured until my next session with him i cant imagine 3 weeks of this hell. Any ideas as what to do now..

 

Help!!

[mammaP]

Hi Skyman, I moved your post to your intro thread because it is about you specifically 

and is best being with your history. 

It is not good to taper with the every other day method, doctors usually recommend it

but have no idea how it sick it makes people! 

 

There have been a lot of changes and I'd rather let someone with more experience 

advise you the best way forward. I do know that every other day will NOT be recommended!

 

Someone will be along soon who can help, I hope you can find what is right for you very soon. 

[bubble]

Dear Sky,

 

I'm very sorry you are going through this hell and I totally understand that desperate need to do something,anything in the hope things will be better.

 

After a too quick taper following doctor's advice (common mantra) I ended up here and thank God for that. after 2 months I see the same things which people here have warned you about.

 

1) Understandably but unfortunately, after reading your tread I can see that you completely disregarded advice you got here.

 

2) People here told you that doctors don't understand withdrawal and that what they suggest makes things worse. it seems you didn't read stories here which testify to that truth but followed doctors' advice which repeatedly led you from bad to worse.

 

3) sorry to be so strict with you but you didn't even give a try at what expert by experience,that is Alto advised.

 

4) everybody repetedly tells you there is no quick fix. It took me 2 months to very gradually get better.Accept that! Impatient attempts at getting a quick fix will make things last longer. Accept the possibility that you might have to give up the job or not finish on time until you feel better.

 

5) you have done the exact opposite to what everyone here has told you:don't make any drastic and sudden changes.

 

6) it's logical that we trust doctors as 'experts' but how many times do they have to fail you for you to start doubting their 'wisdom'?

 

7) Many people on this forum have been reading similar stories for years and have their own painful example. after beining here for only 2 months, I can just say that totally illogical advice of your doctors who have no clue about what they are doing is actually the worst you can do to your brain. Alto even explained their rationale. You are doing exactly the opposite of what is advised here and reading about your dradtic and sudden changes of medication really scares me. Unfortunately, it is just further distabilising your nervous system.

 

I wish you took time to read things on this site and a lot would be clearer.

 

Once again,I'm sorry I was strict with you...

 

Wishing you all the best!

 

And can't urge you enough to follow Alto's advice? If she finds the time to examine your case enough. From my very small experience,your latest changes made an already complicated situation even more so. Now it will be even more difficult to tell what to do.

 

The sooner you accept things will take time, the sooner they will settle.

 

Bubble

[Zoe]

Hi Sky- I agree with Bubble in the fact that the Dr.s have no clue about withdrawal. I also know that the every other day system doesn't work. I tried that because I read about it on another site before I found this site. These people on this site are the most knowledgeable about withdrawal that you will find. Not only do they have the knowledge, but they have been through this hell themselves. I know it's hard to be patient, we all want to be fixed immediately. Hang in there. Hugs & prayers being sent your way. 

[Altostrata]

I certainly don't know everything there is to know, and I'm not a doctor. However, Skymanrob, the specialist you're seeing is definitely not a specialist in coming off drugs. The advice he gave you was terrible. It sounds like he's a specialist in mixing up drug cocktails to overmedicate people.

 

If I were you, I'd never see that "specialist" again. Any M.D. can prescribe psychiatric drugs.

 

With all the drug switches, it's hard to tell what's causing what. How much fluoxetine were you taking when you were feeling better?

 

First of all, stop skipping dose of fluoxetine. You are getting "horrific" withdrawal symptoms from that. If I were you, I'd take 10mg per day, at the same time each day. To titrate fluoxetine, see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/759-tips-for-tapering-off-prozac-fluoxetine/

 

How long have you been taking the olanzapine? What is it supposed to do for you? Do you feel any benefit from it?

 

How long have you been taking the Atarax? What is it supposed to do for you? Do you feel any benefit from it?

 

Also -- if you're committed to a life on psychiatric drugs, this is probably not the right place to ask for advice, as the objective of this site is to help people get off psychiatric drugs. It's best for your health to minimize taking any drugs and go off those you don't absolutely need.