Jump to content
Altostrata

Tips to help sleep: so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

Recommended Posts

Altostrata

All of us on this site who have withdrawal insomnia have sleep disturbance from chemical poisoning, aka neurological dysregulation from psychiatric drugs.

 

Calling it brain damage is a little too specific for withdrawal syndrome, implying organic tissue damage, but it may be similar to what you're suffering from.

 

Personally, I would not take 3mg melatonin right off. I'd start with .5mg to begin and titrate up to whatever dosage is effective for you. See Melatonin for sleep

 

Too much melatonin may make you sluggish or weepy in the morning.

 

Some of us have had good results with blue-blocking glasses or sunglasses, and reducing light stimulation. See Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems

 

Your doctor seems unusually enlightened. Is he familiar with the problems of psychiatric drug withdrawal syndromes?


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
neurosoup

Thanks Alostrata

 

I was just wondering if its ok to wear the glasses while looking at the computer in the hours before bed ? Since i have these glasses now i think i can keep the lights on but just dimmed.

 

I don't think the sleep specialist i saw was unusually enlightened. He just coincidentally has another patient suffering from sleep problems after lithium poisoning (which is a form of chemical poisoning). I WAS SHOCKED BECAUSE IT IS SO RARE TO FIND SOMEONE WITH LITHIUM POISONING! Shocked in a good way because it validates everything i know about lithium which is that it is toxic and does cause sleep problems for the majority of people who are on it.

 

 

I got my glasses from a website called blublocker.com but today i was considering looking for blue blocking goggles wince light is coming in from the top and bottom and i was wondering if that makes a difference?

 

Anyways this website is really great, I much prefer it to ****** where i first remember reading your posts. It is so informative. Even thought i don't have antidepressant problems i WAS ON lithium and antipsychotics (and lamictal) I still find it a great resource.

 

Recently I have been doing something called TMS , for all those out there (and who might be aware of frontal lobe problems) I highly recommend it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jemima

Also one more question - should i take melatonin 2 hours before bed or at sun down which would be more like 3 hours before ? Also can you go on the computer or cell phone with glasses on before bed or does that ruin it?

 

So many details i don't know what to do???

 

Thanks!

 

I found that taking Melatonin one to two hours before bedtime worked best, rather than taking it at sundown. Any earlier than two hours from bedtime and it seemed to wear off before I tried to go to sleep. You could try what your doctor said and if that doesn't work, you can always take it at sundown the next night.

 

The glasses work well for the computer, but personally I've found it best to avoid anything at all stimulating in the evenings, and that would include using the computer or cell phone.

 

My sympathies on the sleeping problems. Have you tried a sleep mask and/or keeping your bedroom as dark as possible? Both were a big help for me.


Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1588-introducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6263-success-jemima-survives-lexapro-and-dr-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dalsaan

I have had some success with hynosis for sleep. I have a app on my phone that is like a guided meditation. I also have sleep phones that I can wear to bed to listen to the app. It took a little while but after a week or so of doing it I started to be able to drop off to sleep. I had been lying there for hours. Now I take 30 mins or so. This is better than it has been for a long time.

 

I don't 'try' to fall asleep. I just focus on relaxing as much as possible.


Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Altostrata

What an excellent tip, dalsaan.

 

What is the app?


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dalsaan

The app I use is called 'I can' insomnia free for an I phoone. But there are heaps of relaxation or sleep apps (and CDs or DVDs). I tried quite a few and I think you have to find to one that's right for you. The persons voice is important. If it's annoying it won't be relaxing. Also I found some of them were asking me to breathe deeply but in a way that didn't work for me


Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Altostrata

This will really help some people, thank you.

 

Here's an article I found that describes a few insomnia apps for the iPhone http://phdtalk.blogspot.com/2012/03/using-iphone-to-battle-insomnia.html


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rhiannon

Can anyone give me info about sources for buying Epsom salts and baking soda in large bulk quantities?


Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Altostrata

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jfrank17

I've recently been searching and trying some MP3s with guided relaxation for sleep. I agree this is quite a variable thing as far as voice and methods that individuals will find helpful.

 

With my increased neuro-sensitivity as I am trying to go to sleep, I find it more difficult to find a voice that is just right. I tried one that sounded fine during the day, and even fine when I first start playing it at night, but as I am relaxing and beginning to drift there's something about the voice that when she speaks again it startles me more awake again.

 

The nice thing on browsing Amazon MP3s is that it's easy to go through samples. I am going to try a new one tonight. The sample has some rainy sounding background and the woman does not seem to stress consonants at all in her speech.


Self-tapered off Effexor after being on for 9 years around 2001

Medication-free until 2006

In 2006 went through divorce and placed on Celexa 20 mg and p.r.n. clonazepam

Stayed on 20 mg until 2011 when began cutting in half and taking 10 mg (Didn't really notice withdrawal symptoms)

Began to plan to come off in spring/summer 2012, continuing 10 mg Jan/Feb.

Tapered to 5 mg March/April (about 1 week mild withdrawal symptoms).

Tapered to sliver of tablet, estimated 2-2.5 mg in (1-2 weeks of withdrawal symptoms progressively diminishing and then stopping)

May 18, 2012: Stopped Celexa.

July 5, 2012: Reinstated Celexa at 5 mg.

July 13, 2012: Increased Celexa to 10 mg.

August 30, 2012: Increased Celexa 15 mg.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Altostrata

Soft meditation music on a continuous loop without a narrator may be more to your liking.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Camm63

Using some of the advice I've found in this website I've had two of the best night's sleep in a row I've had in years, even before WD. Keeping the room cool, getting off the computer for an hour or more before bedtime and stopping vitamin supplements has helped tremendously.

 

I was just taking a low-dose multivitamin but apparently that was having an adverse effect.

 

Last night wasn't as good - I took longer to go to sleep and my sleep wasn't as refreshing and as a result I've had quite a lot of anxiety today. I tend to focus too much on how good or bad I've slept and get myself upset over it.

 

But I am realizing from reading all of the histories and advice on here that WD is a roller-coaster and not a straight progression by any means. So I am learning to cope with the bad days as well as be grateful for the good days.

 

I am also realizing that I tend to have AM anxiety and also an anxiety 'window' about 3 PM which seems odd. But that's my pattern.

 

So thanks for all the help - I wish I knew enough to help someone here but I'm still learning and pretty clueless.


20 + years on anti-depressants for depression, anxiety, PTSD. Titrated off 10 mg of Lexapro over the last 18 months - last dose was May 15, 2012.

Have mild brain zaps but mainly struggling with anxiety and disturbed sleep/insomnia. Also have a diagnosis of fibromyalgia, but do not take any other meds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
spectio

Hi, Camm; congratulations for WDing completely! That's a real accomplishment!! 20 years is a long time to be on AD's. I remember the first few months entirely off AD's my sleep was pretty dicey. It's not much fun but the brain has to readjust to not having AD's any more and sleep seems to be the first thing to suffer!!

 

You sound like you have a VERY GOOD attitude about your progress and I can't think of a better tool to guide your day to day progress

 

My advise to you, after almost a year in WD, is on your really bad days, please treat yourself gently, like a child down with a fever. Dramatically lower your expectations for yourself, don't feel guilty about saying no to people. Watch a movie, take a nap, cuddle up with your pets. Try not to stimulate yourself.

 

If I had to to it again, (NO THANKS), I would really take it easy the first few months .. I don't know if it makes the whole WD thing easier but it's got to be gentler on our already taxed brains. And maybe that will make your recovery even shorter. Sounds good doesn't it!!

 

Take care!!


I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jemima

The thing that helped me most of all with both sleeping and the early morning agitation was a sleep mask plus keeping curtains and shades drawn until early afternoon. I sometimes even wore sunglasses indoors as my house is very bright.

 

Early morning light is what trips the cortisol trigger and causes the fight-or-flight reaction. Just being able to brace myself before pulling off the sleep mask helped. Once I was able to get a good night's sleep, other symptoms began to ebb.


Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1588-introducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6263-success-jemima-survives-lexapro-and-dr-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nadia

Wow Camm, I really relate to everything you say.

 

I think the first step to conquer this is to accept it. I'm doing a lot better today because for the first time since my "relapse" I'm coming to terms with the fact that I'm having insomnia and anxiety again and that as horrible as it feels, I have to just accept it before I can get better. Focusing on the negative stuff and fearing not being able to sleep is just going to make it worse!

 

I love sleep more than anything, so this is really hard to swallow, but hey, I'm still here and I fell again but I'm going to get back up!


'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Natureboy

Wow!!!! I live alone in an isolated cabin in the mountains and sometimes do not hear a voice for a week. Since there is no support to read your posts and say..."That's me...that's me is empowering" The vitamin thing sorta threw me because Healy talks about the importance of taking antioxidants, Mg, ZN, Omega 3's and especially heavy doses of B vitamins that always would make me jittery when I did not take AD Rx's.

 

I am very active so very difficult to not over stimulate myself during the day. I actually find that the harder and more vigorous I work the better my symptoms are during the day. The more sweat and the greater the heart rate the less time I have to obsess with my symptoms. Of course nothing after 5 PM except fixing dinner.

 

What I have found that works best for me at bedtime is to spend little time on the computer in the evening. Saying no to email and social networking. Always go to bed at same time. Always stop watching TV or listening to music one hour before bed. A quiet time with a cup of hot milk working Sudoku puzzles. The puzzles have a way of stimulating areas of my brain that will not allow those needless small thoughts from controlling that hour. I never have trouble going to sleep but there is panic when I wake up and can hardly bring myself to look at the time. There is no pattern that I have been able to put in a spread sheet that will tell me I will have 2 hours or 7 hours.

 

The post about the morning is right on with my symptoms also. The mornings if I have slept or if I have not slept I am groggy and not coordinated. It take all my energy to fix breakfast and then get going. About 3-5 is another time then I feel my best at 5-10. Write down lists of all I want to get done next day only to wake up next AM and look at list until about 11 AM.

 

My neck muscles are so tense you could play like a guitar. Does anyone have that symptom or do you take anything to relieve that pain? Thanks again all for being willing to share your experience. I am new and scared to death of my pdoc. Small town no choices of pdocs that believe that mental disorders are both biological and psychological and can be treated not only with RX pad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KellyS

I am on Day 7 of being 100% off my anti-d meds and my sleep is TERRIBLE. I lay there and toss and turn and eventually just get up. I found that chamomile tea with no sugar added to it helps relax me so I can go back to sleep eventually. Luckily my work schedule has me home 2x a week so I can sleep later if need be.


I am a 40 year old woman who has been on Effexor XR, Clonopin and Trazodone since 2001, and Abilify since 2010. I have been on Effexor XR 150mg 2x day, Abilify 1 mg daily, Trazodone 200mg daily, and Clonopin .05mg as needed. 8/26-I have started back up on 10.71mg of Effexor XR Capsules because after 1 1/2 weeks my withdrawal symptoms were terrible so I re-instated this small dose to re-start my taper at a much slower rate. 11/13-I am now on 7mgs of Effexor XR NO WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS AT ALL :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Aria

I had to laugh because when I was tapering I had to pee every 15 minutes''' I was running back and forth so much at night it did help keep my poor brain off thinking about w/d and not sleeping''' Coming off benzo's caused the worse with having to pee. I had no idea why this was happening till I read about it on this thread.

 

Thank you Alto for writing about your pee situation'' It made me laugh. :D

 

Sleep?? During and post taper I was not sleeping up to 48 hours in a row, then several nights I may had slept for 2 hours each and then I crashed and burned for 12 hours of hard sleep. I thought my sleep would never get better but it did. Here I am many years psyche drug free and I've learned to deal with a good night's sleep, little sleep or no sleep. It'll work itself out and I can lay down flat to rest (during w/d I couldn't). I can say most nights I have trouble going to sleep but when I do I sleep for 10-12 hours. I think my Circadian Sleep Rhythm has permanently changed to me now sleeping from about 3 AM to noon. With my prior 15 year psyche drug history I am happy to be drug free and sleep when I can.


Poly drugged for 18 years with every psychiatric drug in the PDR. C/t off Seroquel, tapered trazodone, celexa, dalmane, ativan (among others) and have been drug free for years. I thank the heavens I survived.

Link to my Introduction thread: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2477-aria-my-psych-journey/

Reading my psychiatric records: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5466-drugged-crazy-reading-my-psychiatric-records/

My Success Story is listed under "Aria's Recovery".

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nadia

That's really good to hear, Aria! Your post withdrawal sleep schedule sounds like my pre-withdrawal sleep schedule. I'd have trouble falling asleep, but then could sleep as long as I needed. Now it's the other way around and I'd gladly trade back to how it was.


'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
areyouthere

Not sure if this belongs here but is sleeplessness a universal side effect from all SSRI tapering? And if so, or even if not so,

 

what exactly in the brain causes one to wake up? I understand that it has something to do with an upset in cortisol production and that blackening curtains somehow is a remedy for it but what part of the brain is it that 1) an SSRI does NOT cause one to wake up but REDUCING an SSRI does? 2) And how about the night sweats? What causes them?

 

Just wonnerin.

 

Well I have enogh to keep me interested for awhile: some answers here:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSRI_discontinuation_syndrome


Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone

1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox.

b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b]

2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax

November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b

Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax

My mantra " go slow & with the flow "

3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day)

4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day.

10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro.

1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms.

1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. :) 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Altostrata

areyouthere, there a few reasons why going off antidepressants has a bad effect on sleep:

 

- While you're taking them, SSRIs disrupt the natural sleep-wake cycle. They affect REM sleep in an unnatural way.

 

- Antidepressants do indeed cause insomnia in some people. It's a very common adverse effect.

 

- Withdrawal symptoms usually indicate a dysregulation in "alerting" functions and production of "alerting" hormones cortisol and adrenaline.

 

- Withdrawal-induced autonomic dysregulation can cause hypersensitivities of various kinds, including hypersensitivity to light stimulation. The sleep-wake cycle is controlled by our perception of light by the eyes and skin (yes, skin senses light, too).

 

If our brains are overstimulated by light, they might not "shut down" properly at night. Light information is transmitted to the pineal gland, which is supposed to make melatonin on a circadian schedule according to time of day and season (angle of light).

 

The part of the brain first affected by withdrawal is the locus coeruleus.

 

Also see One theory of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nadia

From the Locus Coeruleus wiki article:

 

"Psychiatric research has documented that enhanced noradrenergic postsynaptic responsiveness in the neuronal pathway (brain circuit) that originates in the locus coeruleus and end in the basolateral nucleus of the amygdala is a major factor in the pathophysiology of most stress-induced fear-circuitry disorders and especially in posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD)."

 

That is interesting.

 

Alto, do you have any sources for the locus coeruleus being the first part of the brain affected by withdrawal? I'd love to read more about it. You keep hearing about the role of the amygdala in anxiety/insomnia, but not so much the LC.

 

(Once again wishing a team of incredibly brilliant doctors would go to task on figuring out what has gone wrong in my brain.)


'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
areyouthere

Look at antidepressant research, they target the locus coeruleus.

 

Yes. I see that alzheimer's and the locus coeruleus are intertwined . Sundowner's syndrome. Makes sense.

Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone

1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox.

b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b]

2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax

November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b

Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax

My mantra " go slow & with the flow "

3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day)

4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day.

10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro.

1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms.

1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. :) 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ceej

Hi Everyone,

 

I started tapering Celexa from 40 mg to 30 mg last week. I know that's larger than 10% decrease but I decided to give it a shot. So far the "only" problem to report is some trouble sleeping, and a minor cold.

 

Just to confirm: insomnia is a symptom of withdrawal, right?

 

Thanks


ceej

 

Celexa 30 mg

Lamictal 100 mg

Trazodone 100 mg

Synthroid 25 mcg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Altostrata

You betcha, see above.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nikki

ceej....

 

Right ~ Insomnia is a biggy.

 

I am currently lowering Celexa and tapering onto Imipramine. I can only make 5mg. drops in dose because I am taking Imipramine. If I were doing this which I have tried just getting off Celexa alone ~ well I get slammed with WD. The part that bothers me is that the wires in my head become completely unplugged.

 

Anxiety ~ Depression (lots of crying) ~ Insomnia

 

10% is alot to drop, you may want to consider a smaller drop in dose and if things get hairy you can offset the WD by going back up in dose.

 

Hugs


Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
scpearse

:) I have struggled with sleep since I tapered off the paxil last year and now recently the celexa. It is mostly falling asleep, not staying asleep. Part of this is due to what I call busy brain. While I am off the celeza, I am still taking trazedone to help. Eventually I will get off this too. Baby steps.

 

Here are a few things I am doing to help in this whole process:

1. I have a strict bedtime routine including meditation, reading (while I know this can be a sleep deterrent, I have tried not reading and reading, and feel better reading something boring before bed), deep breathing. My room is always cool and I use an eye mask. A couple of hours before bed, I also drink some calming tea - like chamomile, sleepy-time teas, etc.

 

2. I have been doing neurofeedback to help. This can be costly by has amazing results. Check it out http://braindoc.info/?page_id=20

 

3. Therapy too.

 

My issue is NOT panicking when I don't fall asleep. It can be lonely and cause more anxiety then needed. Everyone has sleepless nights, I just don't want these occasional hick-ups to have such an impact on me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Altostrata

Good suggestions, sc.

 

Also, melatonin may help you fall asleep, that's what it's good for, see the Melatonin topic.

 

It sounds like you're coping well with withdrawal, please start a topic for yourself in the Intro forum and tell us about it!


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nadia

I'm curious to try neurofeedback... I wonder how effective it can be for the type of insomnia I have, which is that I can fall asleep fine, but then wake up during the night.


'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
areyouthere
Yoga and sleep improvement.Yoga and sleep improvement.

Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone

1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox.

b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b]

2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax

November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b

Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax

My mantra " go slow & with the flow "

3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day)

4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day.

10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro.

1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms.

1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. :) 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
areyouthere

You can buy big bags of epsom salts at most any walgreens store.

 

Bulk baking soda can be purchased at a sam's club , Cosco or similar.

 

If you want that warm bath to fizz ( and assuming you have added baking soda) pour a couple of tablespoons of citric acid in your tub ( can get on Amazon, some health food stores, food coop etc) . Baking soda & citric acid react with one another to produce Co2 gas. Harmless. Look on the back of any fizzling bath product, you will see both ingredients in it.

 

To get REALLY fancy, add a few drops of soothing lavender essential oil. zzzzzzzzzzz


Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone

1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox.

b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b]

2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax

November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b

Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax

My mantra " go slow & with the flow "

3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day)

4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day.

10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro.

1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms.

1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. :) 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Altostrata

Sounds delightful.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nadia

Speaking of iPhone/iPad apps, I like the free Sleep Soundly audio session. The hard part is how to turn it off when you go to sleep!


'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skyler

The nice thing on browsing Amazon MP3s is that it's easy to go through samples. I am going to try a new one tonight. The sample has some rainy sounding background and the woman does not seem to stress consonants at all in her speech.

I like nature sounds, no speech. As soon as there is a human voice I start to attach meaning but with nature sounds it's only peace. LOL, when I want voice I listen to BBC World on my local Public Radio... BBC repeats the same news cycle every 15 mins or so at night, so I don't get roped into understanding every nuance.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dalsaan

There is an amazing app for iPhones called nature space. You have to listen to the tracks via headphones to get the full effect and they cost a bit to download but they are really nice to listen to and the sound travels from one side to the other in stereo


Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Saspian

I had to laugh because when I was tapering I had to pee every 15 minutes''' I was running back and forth so much at night it did help keep my poor brain off thinking about w/d and not sleeping''' Coming off benzo's caused the worse with having to pee. I had no idea why this was happening till I read about it on this thread.

 

Thank you Alto for writing about your pee situation'' It made me laugh. :D

 

Sleep?? During and post taper I was not sleeping up to 48 hours in a row, then several nights I may had slept for 2 hours each and then I crashed and burned for 12 hours of hard sleep. I thought my sleep would never get better but it did. Here I am many years psyche drug free and I've learned to deal with a good night's sleep, little sleep or no sleep. It'll work itself out and I can lay down flat to rest (during w/d I couldn't). I can say most nights I have trouble going to sleep but when I do I sleep for 10-12 hours. I think my Circadian Sleep Rhythm has permanently changed to me now sleeping from about 3 AM to noon. With my prior 15 year psyche drug history I am happy to be drug free and sleep when I can.

 

As a 70 year old Australian male who was on benzos and a huge range of anti depressants for over thirty years I am now into day 12 of nil.

This follows three years of very minimal anti depressants (Moclobomide not available in U.S.A.)which seemed to help for a few months but elevated my liver enzymes considerably.I had been on Serzone which was taken from the Australian market on account of reported acute liver failure, so I didn't want to take any further risks.

 

Over these 30 plus years I spent 5 weeks in de-tox with benzodiazepines always the major offender.The last 3 years I reduced Valium to an average of 3.5 mgs daily with a few periods of up to several weeks taking nil, so I see cold turkey now as not too abrupt.

 

As for current sleep issues. Always wake often during the night, peeing....but a dicky prostate probably to blame for that. Recently has some hypnic jerk prior to falling off which is a bit annoying at first. The methodology I apply is just to accept being awake stoically and arrange my activities around it. I have found afternoon naps largely counter productive.

 

Congratulations on a helpful forum; the need is out there what with lazy doctors and a grasping uncaring pharmaceutical industry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use Privacy Policy