☼ mlrp: withdrawal syndrome from Wellbutrin? Also on remeron and lorazepam.

[dalsaan]

Thanks for the update, so glad you can see such a change from last year to this year. As always I wish you the best

[arwen]

I am very happy you feel good Even more happy that you enjoyed you walk on the beach!

 

I know what you mean, to be able to do something that you couldn't do before, and enjoy it! Such a wonderful feeling. It is empowering. I took a small trip today to the library, by subway, alone, and I didn't panic. I go to work alone by bus every day, but the subway used to be very scary. One year ago that would have been impossible. If somehow, I convinced myself to go, I would have been crippled by panic. Not today. Today I felt normal, the way I used to be, before pills.

[mlrp]

Thank you, dalsaan, and arwen, for looking in. I hope to catch up with both of you soon at your threads. :-)

 

I need to resume tracking symptoms here. I think my last window was so solid, and lasted long enough (a good few days), that I got lulled into thinking maybe this thing was licked. Then got hit by a moderate wave and dropped a number of my healthier habits...

 

So...

 

September 25

 

Day 6 of 25.2 mg of Remeron.

Moderate anxiety upon waking, and morning anxiety and hopeless, sad feelings. These fade a bit as afternoon approaches. A bit of mild GI symptoms throughout. I hope I haven't mentally "talked myself into" these sx by half-expecting them after the cut.

 

I still can't seem to resume social contact - even very much with my two sisters. Pretty much resigned to interactions here (Hi Guys!), at work, group therapy, single therapist (trying a cut to twice monthly instead of weekly), 12-step, and now the tai chi class that I'm enjoying. I miss my old social interactions from the "before" times. I don't know what keeps me from contacting people (except irrational anxiety bordering on outright fear and some kind of weird "not allowed to do it" feeling that's still tied up with my screwed up relationship to my mother). Well, that and knowing that I'm about 40 lbs overweight (!) and don't want people to see how I've changed.

 

I'm happy to finally be tapering Remeron. I'm hoping that my brain will thank me with a nice, long window like it did with the first dosage cut. My overall functioning has improved, no question. I still struggle with the usual cluster of sx, at times fairly pronounced. But I'm cautiously optimistic that things will continue to get better and better, if incrementally. This is a kind of mildly wavey week, so have trouble believing this, but I'm pretty sure that my system is responding favorably, and noticeably, to even these tiny cuts.

 

All the while, no matter what, my brain continues to heal...

 

That said, I have a considerable journey ahead.

 

My husband and I have set a goal for "feeling and looking great" (which, more modestly put, means healthy weights, better fitness, and emotional and spiritual wellbeing) by spring of 2018. Not to put any of this on a schedule (that way lies madness! ha.) - but just to have something to strive toward.

 

~:~:~:Love and Light~:~:~: Hope to catch up with more of you soon. You are all in my thoughts - sending you healing energy and peace.

[Altostrata]

Well, mlrp, you're on your way. Very good to hear your husband has the same goals, too.

[Skylarblue75]

Hi mlrp, thank you for checking in on me, I hope your doing well today

[Skylarblue75]

Send hugs to you today

[mattinsmom]

Yay. I'm doing a little jig (not too gracefully) for you. I am so happy that you are seeing and feeling improvements. 

[mlrp]

Hi, everyone,

 

Has it really been more than 10 days since my last post? So, this is Day 18 on 25.2 mg of Remeron

 

Unfortunately, things have been very, very wavey. Lots of heavy, cortisol-type mornings, generalized but pronounced anxiety (triggering situations with my mom - and a bit with my sister - haven't helped), pressure in my head and behind my eyes, self-isolating (hence my not being around here - again :-/ ), lots of anhedonia - unable to take pleasure in anything, and things that I want to enjoy and would normally cause my spirit to lighten are once again emotionally painful. This morning, for the first time in quite a while, my cognitive ability was way down - had trouble focusing on the simplest tasks at work. Luckily, this improved somewhat as the day went on, because work continues to be busy. 

 

I haven't been recording my daily symptoms anywhere, which is a pity because it would help to see the nuances. But this is definitely a wave - no sign of a window in sight. But then, they don't ever seem to announce themselves - they just *poof!* open up. I mustn't give up, though. The first Remeron cut was pretty wavey initially and then a great, big window opened. Here's hoping.

 

Sometimes on this journey, I come across something someone has written and actually forget that I've had that same symptom. I was reminded of this because a few days ago, before the wave really settled in, I had a couple of days with long episodes of what I now realize is some form of depersonalization.  I'm not sure -- I'll have to try and track it -- but I think my worst waves are preceded by episodes of at least mild depersonalization.  I had read about DP online many months ago and, even though I identified with it, I didn't like that it was associated with schizophrenia - so I've largely decided to not think about it.  But SA has helped me discredit many of these stigmatizing labels. Funny thing is, I remember months and months ago trying to describe to my shrink what I now believe was my experience of DP, but either I wasn't being very clear or she just wasn't getting it (or wasn't interested beyond writing the script). For me, it's like experiencing life - on almost any conscious level - becomes just too painful and uncomfortable. When that happens, I kind of escape within, and press my inner-consciousness "sleep" button. I can still go about my day, and function fairly well, but it feels as if there's sort of a thick, thick layer of invisible foam rubber surrounding me and acting as a buffer between myself and my experience of the world. I don't like it when it happens. But I apparently still need to "activate" it on occasion to get by. Sucks.

 

I know (somewhere inside) that all the crap I'm going through are neuro-emotions, but this particular episode is a bit of a dilly. Everything seems so hopeless and sad. At best, I'm in some bland, neutral, emotion-less state of dull misery. And I'm having trouble believing I'm not going to be like this forever. The usual, all too familiar, BS that these drugs make us deal with. 

 

So, this is just me, sending up another flare to say that I'm hanging in - riding out this wave. 

 

My husband commended me today on my perseverance through all this (and I am beyond fortunate to have him walking every step of this journey with me). The thing is, and not to negate one bit of his supportive comment but what choice do I have, really? All any of us can do is KEEP WALKING. 

 

I'm grateful to have completed a few marathons in my day, because endurance is the name of the game here. Well, one of the names.

 

I apologize for being scarce lately. Sending you all caring thoughts.

[Altostrata]

Very true, mlrp.

[bubble]

Thank you for the update mlrp and all those clear descriptions and grasps of very familiar and hard to grasp states, (neuro) emotions, etc. 

 

There are more of us here who isolate themselves when in a wave. To conserve the very limited energy supply I guess.  

 

We are on the right path.

 

hugs

[mlrp]

Checking in...

 

in the midst of what I would say is a fairly protracted wave - more intense and deep-set than I've had in some time.

 

LOTS of anxiety, feelings of despair, crying, anhedonia. Triggers like dealing with my mom, and now a sister who is in crisis and other dysfunctional family matters, don't help. But, inside, I KNOW that the real problem is the withdrawal - even though my compromised brain doesn't want me to believe that. It wants me to believe that this horrible feeling state is permanent.

 

From here, I can only remember "normal," and "window" as vague, distant recollections. But I know - factually, intellectually - that when I have been in a window, all of my worst real-life "demons" (mom relationship, etc.) are right-sized by my better-functioning brain. I can keep things in blessedly healthy perspective.

 

Right now, I am locked in a plexiglass box. I can see normal life out there - with it's joys and sorrows - with beautiful autumnal colors and other things that would bring me pleasure and make me laugh. I can see it, but I can't experience it, can't feel it. Once again, all the plans I have for "resuming" my life must wait until the next window (which I struggle to even believe is a possibility).

 

I'm entering the fourth week of my second dosage cut. After the first cut, I got that huge window about 2 1/2 weeks in. Not this time. I really don't want to reinstate to any degree. I don't think Remeron has ever helped one way or the other. I'll hold as long as I need to in order to stabilize, but I really don't want to reinstate.

 

After about 10 days of mentally wanting to fight this and ending up worse for it, I'm just going to ACCEPT it. Lay low. Do the minimum (work is always busy). Self-care.

 

Working on improving my diet, and at least maintaining a walking regimen.

 

And humbly asking my Higher Power for that window.

 

Peace, everyone.

[bubble]

Dear mjrp,

 

thank you for checking in. I think I know how you feel because I also had a protracted wave after my cut at the end of August. It lasted for over a month and that duration was very disheartening. Addax was also in a long wave and felt the need to updose since it seemed the only thing she could do to make the dread stop.  But we have both found once again that holds really fix things. It's just a matter of time. Even when it seems it's much longer than expected/hoped for. 

 

I really hope and believe you will have the same experience. I was also behind the plexiglass and it lasted long. But then I was just realised and after a while felt better than in a long while. 

 

I also think that you are doing all the right things to facilitate this process: accepting it as a temporary state and reminding yourself that your brain is trying to trick you as well as gentle self-care are my strategies as well.

 

Sending you lots of healing vibes for this challenging period.

 

hugs

Bubble

[mlrp]

Dear Bubble -

 

You are one of my voices of inspiration here. I'm going to hold on to the thought that waves (unfortunately) can last over a month - and much longer (my heart goes out to all who have been suffering for months on end).

 

I wish you continued improvement. It is such a help to be among people who understand.

[WinningThrough]

Hello MLRP

 

I've read some of your thread. I'm so sorry for your suffering.

 

Thank you for your post on my thread.

 

I'm so sorry you're in an awful wave. There seems to be a tsunami doing the rounds that's swept a few of us up.

 

I do hope a window will open for you soon.

[Muddles]

Sorry to see you are in a big wave right now. Sending brummie healing hugs your way.

[mammaP]

Sorry that you are in such an awful wave. They seem to go on forever and it's hard to remember the windows

but they do pass. One day at a time...........

[arwen]

I am so sad that you are in a big wave, but you are very strong and wise and doing all the right things. It will pass.

Take your time to stabilize, take it easy.

 

I may not write a lot here, but I am following your thread and I feel for you.

I am sending you good vibes! May the wave be over soon!

[Athena]

A quick hello to you sweet Mlrp, to say that I think of you and that I send winds of hope from my heart to yours. It will get better and you are on the right track.

Love +++

Athena

[dalsaan]

Hi Mirp,

 

Thanks for dropping in on my thread.   Very sorry to hear about the wave.  We have all been there thinking its permanent etc but regardless of how intense that thought is, its not true.   As they say in the classics, this too shall pass (just not quick enough!).   I do think not fighting it and not investing in it is the best response to take.

 

I hope the corner comes quickly

 

take care

 

D

[Athena]

Hello Mlrp,

 

I hope you're getting better and that you can do a little bit of tai-chi.

 

Hope, peace, and mostly a big hug to you,

 

Athena

[bubble]

we would like to hear from you although I know you opt for isolation when not feeling well as me...

[mattinsmom]

Hugs

[mlrp]

Hello, everyone,

 

I'm still here. I don't feel deserving of everyone's care and concern because I haven't been a contributing member of this community for some weeks now. But I also can't beat myself up and add insult to injury. In a bad wave.

 

I don't know when I will feel up to checking in on how folks are doing because I am just barely treading water. Well, maybe not as bad as that, but feels like it a lot of the time.

 

I need to get back to journaling and tracking daily symptoms, because it's the only way to really gauge how I'm doing. Otherwise, all I seem to remember is how HORRIBLE things feel.

 

On 31 Oct 2014 I cut the Remeron another 10% to 22.7 mg. I'm going by memory now, but I think my brain/body gave me another little "thank-you" week of window-ish feelings about a week after the cut. I remember having a pretty good 2-3 days mid-November. Then a stressful discussion on a sensitive issue triggered me and I fell hard into a pit. This was followed closely by light menstruation (thought I was DONE with that?!) Never had PMS in the "before-times" but I think now menopause is playing merry havoc with my hormones. Have been in a pit with the usual protracted withdrawal symptoms ever since - coritsol mornings, anxiety through the day, feelings of despair and hopelessness, crying a lot, and just severe emotional pain that I want to STOP. Dark thoughts because I am just so sick and tired of being sick and tired.

 

It almost feels as if each time I hit a wave, I feel less equipped to soldier through. But I can't let this beat me.

 

This is the ONLY PLACE I feel some comfort of being 100% understood and where I feel as if maybe I really am not crazy. I am also caught in the spinning thoughts that this is me (not the drugs) and this is permanent. I can tell that even my poor, long-suffering husband is getting weary of this protracted process.

 

So important to try and track daily symptoms to remind myself of good days when I have them.

 

I'm almost comforted to find that I am having mild GI symptoms that would be typical of Remeron withdrawal. This is evidence that it is the drug and not me. Going to read up on Wulfgar's story again, to remind myself of what to possibly expect, and of better times ahead.

 

I've started Weight Watchers and lost nearly 5 lbs. I walk briskly on the treadmill at work almost every day for 30 min. I pretty much experience exercise intolerance, which is hugely frustrating and a real slap in the face to someone who used to get "runner's high," but I am committed to sticking with the treadmill at least a few times a week, unless my brain/body really tells me to stop.

 

Tried to do the math yesterday on how long getting completely off Remeron is going to take and I don't even want to think about it. I just want to be DONE with this!

 

I want each of you reading this to know that I care SO much about you in your struggles and wish you triumph over this horror.

 

I don't know when I will be able to catch up on people's threads. Right now I am just barely getting through each day doing the minimum on days when that's all I can do, and trying to do just a little bit extra (cook nutritiously, organize the house) when I can manage that much.

 

I send out a huge hug of gratitude and caring to all of you.

[bubble]

Dear mlrp,

 

please don't feel bad about anything. I'm just happy that you found the time and space to update. (As you could see we were thinking about you all along I'm also not feeling too chirpy to say the least and could actually fit your description. Managing. Yes, one of the worst aspects of this is that it is taking so long and depletes all our inner reserves. Also dark, gloomy weather and short days are not my favourite time of the year, tapering or no tapering. 

 

But we are here, we are trying, doing something good for ourselves day in day out, be it a nutritious meal, or a treadmill (I started with 20 secs of planking exercise 2 months ago and came to 2 minutes now). And most importantly, we are here for each other even when we are so fed up with ourselves

 

a huge hug back

[mlrp]

Thank you, Bubble <<hug>>

 

I can't do it. I'm trying to check in with folks, out of genuine concern, but it's too difficult right now. Can barely handle my work responsiblities.

 

I hope to be in a place where I can say hello to folks on their threads and repay some of the love I have been shown here.

[mlrp]

11/26

 

Day 27 of most recent cut in Remeron

 

Continuing wave symptoms - the usual stuff, plus anxiety seems to be higher than it has been for some time. Could I be developing a tolerance to my current Lorazepam dose? I'm certainly not about to increase it, but the anxiety is pretty fierce at times. Also, weird, unpleasant dreams in the early a.m. And digestive issues beginning - some nausea this morning, and don't seem to be digesting food as fully. 

 

Late afternoons/evenings a bit better. 

 

I guess it's better to just stay in the moment. Be grateful (this Thanksgiving eve) for what I am able to do - baked a pumpkin pie. And not obsess about the (million and one) things that seem completely beyond me - for now, anyway. 

 

This Friday will mark the end of Week 4 of the latest cut, but I definitely think I will need to hold a while longer. Don't feel anywhere near stable enough to make an additional cut. 

 

I have so little energy, this write-up will probably be about it for me here today. 

 

Peace, love, and light to each of you, dear, dear, friends on SA. I miss reading up on your threads. Perhaps will catch up a bit tomorrow.

[mammaP]

Sorry to hear you are in a wave M, it's the pits! Holding is the best, for me the temptation is always to updose

to try and feel better but being patient pays off in the end. I'm still feeling my last cut too, not bad but just there and insomnia

back in full force. It will settle and will get better.  We will all get better. Hope this wave turns into a window for you soon. 

[Athena]

Hi Mlrp,

 

Thanks for dropping by my thread. I am sorry that you are not feeling well. Yes indeed, patience IS a virtue! Us here at SA we are becoming the most patient people on earth.

Anxiety does increase a lot for me too when in a wave. Sometimes I even think everybody hates me... and then I realize they are disturbed thoughts from the WD. I have the weird dreams too (often nightmares in fact), and have PMS which I never had before all this. It affects very much our hormonal balance (I read your periods are coming back... Wouldn't be surprised if it was linked).

 

It is great that you baked a pumpkin pie!! I hope your TG was peaceful and fun!! I think it's awesome too that you do your walk on the treadmill many times a week. I try to go walk outside everyday when the sun is still up, because not so many hours of sunshine is hard on me.

 

I think it's a good idea to hold a little bit... Your patience WILL pay off, that is for sure!

 

Hang in there Mlrp.

 

Hug and wishing you all the best.

 

Athena

[arwen]

Don't worry mlrp about not checking on us. Sometimes we need all our energy just to go through another day. I know you are doing your best and some. As you well know, it is the drugs that make you feel in the pit, not you. But it is you living in the moment, baking a pumpkin pie, going to work and treading on the treadmill.

 

Take care of yourself, listen to your body, take it easy and everything will be fine. 

 

Hugs.

[mlrp]

Dec 01

 

Day 31 of most recent Remeron cut

 

I'm only good for looking in on a few threads and then posting a bit here. Still so wavy. And the anxiety persists, too. Much of the day, I battle with the feeling that my brain is broken and I will be this way forever. 

 

Did 30 minutes on the treadmill at work - it went ok. 

 

Oh, heck, I'll have to pick up again tomorrow - I've already broken my in-bed-by-9:00-no-electronics-before-bed rule.

 

Reason no. 246 I hate these poisons: I don't move anywhere near as fast as I used to - in brain, body, or accomplishment. 

 

OK, I know it's an acceptance thing. 

 

But it still kinda sucks. 

 

G'night and prayers to all.

[mlrp]

Day 32 of latest Remeron cut

 

Dangerously close to staying up past my bedtime, again, so another brief check-in. 

 

It's all pretty much the same these days. Mornings still miserable. This morning might have been a shade better than yesterday. And I did have a very few, brief, glimmers of consciousness during the day that were unfettered by the usual head pressure, anxiety, and despair that I seem to be living with lately. So.... out of those slivers of light in this dark tunnel, might there be a window somewhere ahead? Please, God.

 

When the anxiety is bad, the thoughts get pretty dark. 

 

And I'm still. so. isolated. from friends. I want to communicate, but the thought of communicating terrifies me. This is something that's never really gone away - even in the best of my windows. 

 

Thought transitions generally are unsettling at best and downright excruciating at worst. Simple, insignificant transitions, like going from thinking about the spreadsheet I'm working on, to remembering that I need to order a book on Amazon. Any ideas, anyone, about why my brain feels like it's rolling down an unpaved, pothole-ridden road with flat tires and no shocks? It's times like that I feel my brain is "broken." 

 

But healing is going on, right? Even during the rough times, right? Right. 

 

I want to make another cut so bad. I want this s*** out of my body. But keep it simple, keep it slow, keep it stable. 

 

I know I've mentioned this before, but liquid Remeron tastes exactly like liquid vinyl. Like some kind of eff-ing petroleum product. And I get to drink it down every night. Grrrr....

 

This, too, shall pass.

 

Love and light to all dear friends here.

[chicken]

ML,

After what I've been through and read about remeron you may be wise to get rid of that med first before tapering the others.

 

Just had a lady move into my rental house yesterday. I was talking with her and guess what? She took remeron! She is off of it now. She was on it for about a month. She said it gave her terrible headaches in the mornings and ran her blood pressure way up and she quit taking it. She had been off of ADs about 4 years but her depression got so bad that she went back on meds. I agreed with her, never to touch Remeron again. She is on SSRI's now, not that SSRIs are any better.

[mlrp]

Thanks, Chicken, for checking in with me, and for your thoughts. I will definitely be tapering Remeron - want to get off of it as quickly, but safely and steadily as possible.

 

Day 33 of most recent cut.

 

OK, so I just typed this whole, detailed check-in, hit a couple of wrong keys and the whole thing vanished. Grrrr....

 

So the short version is:

Woke without a cortisol morning. Not a window, per se, but no head pressure, no feelings of despair, no whimpering at the mere act of wakening. Funny that I'd had little hints of window moments yesterday.

 

Not so much a full window today as absence-of-a-wave, but I'll take it. Maybe, with luck, it will open into a window. Anyway, it's the first palpable relief of symptoms I've had in weeks. Thank God.

 

Had some wavey periods of time around lunch and toward the end of the workday. The lunchtime event seemed to be helped by food and a walk around the block.

 

Today, I realized for the first time that these poisons have actually blunted my ability to connect with my emotions toward my nearest and dearest, namely my husband. I know that I have anhedonia. But only this morning did I realized that it's been months (years?) since I've been able to simply "be" in my love for him, to simply "regard him with love," which used to be purely my natural state of being.

 

The good thing about it, though, is that I was only able to come to this realization because I had some moments today when I was able to re-connect with those feelings and experience them fully, in the core of my being. It's all still terribly blunted, and smothered, by these poisons - but it was also almost like falling in love all over again - because it had been so long.

 

I know others here have written about the terrible struggles they have to connect with any of their emotions toward their loved ones. And I really hadn't thought that I was similarly afflicted. But today, I realized what has been lost to me all these months - happily, because I was able to retrieve some of it, however fleetingly.

 

I hope this will give some hope to others here.

 

I so wish that I could look in on more of you. I'm attending training at work this week and then having to pull overtime in the evenings. NOT a good combination for taking care of one's CNS.

 

Please know that I think of all of you, and even if I'm not writing, I am reading up on a lot of your stories.

 

Stay strong, folks. Peace to you.

[mammaP]

I'm glad that you are feeling a little better M, it's such a relief when a wave starts to break, even slightly.

Take care of yourself and don't push yourself too hard. 

 

Thank you for all that you do here, you are a great help to us, but don't worry about not being able to post,

we all  have times where we can only read and not respond, words just don't come at times for me. 

 

I'm glad that you recognise that the drugs have blunted the love for your husband, so many people break up

because they feel they have fallen out of love but it just isn't the case, it is the drugs that cause the emotions 

to be dulled as you discovered. One day I'm sure you will be as much in love with him as you ever were, perhaps

even more so! I can imagine that it will be like falling in love all over again only sweeter 

[Skylarblue75]

Stopping by to say hi

 

Hugs

[Athena]

Hi Mlrp

 

How are you doing?

 

Thinking of you,

 

Hug,

 

Athena