Mistersaunders: Alcoholic, drug addict, risk taker... Or something else?! We shall see!

[MisterSaunders]

Hi all,

 

I'm new to this forum, and I really really need some help.

 

I have been taking Zoloft 100mg for 2 years, and I am jut starting to taper, with the option of mirtazapine.

 

I started taking Zoloft on the back of obsessive thoughts, anxiety and depression. For the last 18 months I have noticed a terrifying affinity to alcohol. I am 22 years old, and I struggled immensely through my final year of university due to obsessing about alcohol, drugs, general recklessness and mania.

 

Essentially, I can't control anything at the minute. Alcohol is my biggest vice, but carbs and sugar take it's place on occasion.

 

The reason I am here is that a month ago I underwent surgery, and stopped taking my Zoloft for a week. At the end of that week, these dreadful cravings vanished. Poof. I could control my diet, I didn't try drinking, but I didn't crave it. Unfortunately, the withdrawals kicked in and a went back on Zoloft. I kind of wish if seen it though.

 

 

I need some advice. I know you guys aren't doctors, but it's surprising how I'll informed Doctors are on this topic - my GP swears by SSRI's. Has anyone experienced similar things on SSRI's, or do I have a genuine drink and or drug problem, or both?! It's just so strange.

 

I'm 22 years old, an active member of various sports teams. The thought of abstaining from alcohol for the rest of my life is an anxious one. Has anybody found that since quitting SSRI's, that they have had more control over certain behaviours, and/or vanished cravings?

 

Looking forward to any input!

[Rhiannon]

You are definitely not the first person on this forum who found they had a craving for alcohol and/or drugs once they started taking ADs and sometimes other psych drugs. I don't know if it's due to self-medicating the side effects, or if it's an effect caused by the drug itself, but it's not uncommon at all. You're not nuts and you're not alone.

 

ADs can cause other changes in urges and behaviors as well. A good book on this topic is Medication Madness by Dr. Peter Breggin. 

 

Getting off the med or at least reducing your dose considerably will probably help. But please don't drastically or abruptly reduce or stop your Zoloft use without reading our Tapering section. You think things are bad now, you can't imagine how bad they can be if you add withdrawal to the pile. 

 

Take a look at the topics "pinned" at the top of the Tapering section, and read through the links. It's worth taking some time now to really inform and educate yourself about tapering before you begin. As you have discovered, doctors really don't know a lot about these meds and their bad effects, and they know even less about tapering. (This is due to many decades of intensive miseducation on the part of highly profitable pharmaceutical companies, no accident.)

 

Eventually I would highly recommend reading Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker. Hopefully between that and the info on this forum, you won't go down the same path many of us here did, losing years or decades of our lives, and our health, and our financial stability.

 

You might also take a look at the website "cepuk.org" for a nice basic intro into what the pharm companies aren't telling people. (Council for Evidence-Based Psychiatry, UK.)

[Altostrata]

Welcome, MIstersaunders.

 

For some people, antidepressants have a dangerously disinhibiting effect. David Healy, a psychiatrist in Wales and a famous critic of antidepressants, wants to hear about such cases, see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2312-dr-david-healy-wants-to-hear-about-your-alcohol-and-sugar-cravings/

[MisterSaunders]

Thank you both for your respective replies; you have issued me with some really helpful information which has eased some of my anxiety.

 

I must admit, this self perpetuating cycle of craving-reward coincides precisely with my SSRI use. It's difficult to look back through the fog of serotonin, but I recall certain events, and massively out of character actions whilst being on the drug.

 

I mentioned to my doctor how I feel that these should be a last resort, not a first port of call, and she became very defensive. I think many people are programmed into thinking that they are a harmless 'happy pill.' Well, I'm genuinely concerned that my future social life and mental health have been seriously impaired by their use. I'm really convinced that my alcohol abuse is down to these drugs, and that is unforgivable and cannot be atoned for by any empty words by any 'expert.'

 

Once again, thanks for your help! Any tips or wisdom is much appreciated. Thanks for the welcoming. It's great to have a place to air experiences without cynicism or narrow mindedness.

[dalsaan]

Hi MisterSaunders,

 

I'm not sure what you mean by mirtazapine being an option. There are many people here, myself included, who are trying to get off the drug. Two of its greatest side effects are weight gain and sugar craving.

 

My best advice is that you read all you can about the drugs and about non-medication ways of dealing with anxiety, depression etc

 

Dalsaan

[MisterSaunders]

Hello there,

 

I probably should have been clearer. I have a prescription for mirtazapine which I asked for after reading about the role of 5-ht3 receptors and alcoholism. I haven't started taking it yet, and I may not do so of to could exacerbate the problem. I will start to really educate myself on this topic.

[bubble]

Yes, you are right: a lot if not most doctors think that ADs are harmless happy pills that they just throw in for a good measure. I was shocked when my friend moved to the States, started a very stressing job and started coming down with frequent colds. Her GP put her on an AD just like that! To make her "stronger" in the rat race

 

My doctor had a philosophy that drugs are necessary evil but should be taken at lowest doses for the shortest period of time. She was actually specialising in psychotherapy and looking at what is really behind depression, anxiety, etc. rather than focusing only on eliminating symptoms while leaving the cause untouched. Her only problem (which became mine) is that she knew nothing about withdrawal

 

I would advise you to put your experience with Zoloft in your signature here and inform yourself on the safe way of coming off Zoloft because these drugs can cause even more problems when we stop taking them too suddenly than what they cause when they are in the system. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Since it seems to be your first and only drug and you were on it for a relatively short time, you shouldn't have difficulties coming off but better start conservative with 10 % cuts every 30 days as we recommend and then see if you can maybe handle a fast taper.  From my experience, faster actually meant staying on the drugs longer Not to mention horrible suffering.

 

here are some links for you: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1441-tips-for-tapering-off-zoloft-sertraline/

 

More drugs is not just more trouble but compounded trouble as well as changing them and we've seen some really nasty stories about Mirtazepine...

[MisterSaunders]

Hello and thank you!

 

Again, some really useful words there. I'll put my history in my signature later on this evening when I am near a laptop!

 

I'm in a real hole today. Depressed and anxious about alcohol. I think I'll have to commit to lifelong Abstinence based on reading that I have done. I'm 22 years old, and I think that without sounding too cynical, I can blame this on SSRI's. I'm bitter, as I was never wanted about drinking on the drug, and over the past 2 years I have been admitted to hospital 3 times for alcohol related incidents, broken bones, lost teeth, jeopardised my education, tarnished my reputation. In compassion to a lot of others, I know 2 years doesn't sound like much, but it's amazing how much self destruction one can reap in a 2 year period. If I could go back to square one, before that doctors trip, I would.

 

Sigh.

[Rhiannon]

I would say you definitely need to stay away from alcohol until you've finished tapering and for probably some months afterward. It's too early to assess "lifelong" and really just a waste of time and energy to go there right now. Plenty of time for figuring that out later.

 

Meanwhile, get your hands on copies of Medication Madness and Anatomy of an Epidemic. And continue reading our materials on tapering so you can plan your strategy for that.

 

It sounds to me like you are someone who should never, ever take an SSRI or probably any AD or psych drug ever again.  The stakes are just too high, and there are always nondrug ways to manage whatever they're throwing the drug at.

 

If I were you I would make sure that information is included whenever you're giving your medical history to someone and they ask if you have allergies or sensitivities to drugs.

[Rhiannon]

I should add: I did some really REALLY crazy stuff when I was on psych drugs--impulsive, irrational, crazy behavior, and basically hurt a lot of people I loved and also flushed my life right down the toilet. And was miserable and unhappy most of the time and often suicidal, as well. 

 

After I figured out that the drugs were causing most of my misery and began to taper, I was still really beating myself up over the weird choices I had made. The book Medication Madness by Peter Breggin was really helpful to me in letting go of that. I will have to live with the consequences of those actions for the rest of my life, and I don't have the kind of time that you have in which to put things right (what even can be put right, because a lot of it can't)-- but I'm not beating myself up about it any more. And I'm beginning to trust myself and trust my judgment again. That's why I'm recommending that book to you, I think you might find it helpful too.

[Jemima]

Hi MisterSaunders,

 

Yes, SSRI antidepressants along with many other psych meds apparently disrupt the metabolism, often causing large weight gains from sugar and other food cravings, and alcohol cravings.  No one really knows what all they do, including the pharma companies that peddle them. Scary.

 

Please do read all that you can about the effects of these drugs and take your time getting off of Zoloft.  These drugs make changes in the physical structure of the brain which are slow to normalize, so it's best to very gradually remove that crutch and allow your nervous system to right itself again instead of just stopping cold turkey. And if I were you, I wouldn't touch the mirtazapine.

 

Welcome to the forum.  You'll find lots of good information and friendly support here.

[MisterSaunders]

Yeah you're right, I really should avoid anything that drastically effects neurotransmitter levels for a while. It's such a pain, because as soon as I resolve to stop drinking, I have ridiculous cravings for sweets, and vice versa - I have gained 40 pounds since I started taking them. I know much has been made about the role of the pancreas in cravings, but  I'm adamant it's all serotonin related. I am not going to take the Mirtazapine, I am going to throw that away. 

 

In the meantime, this Medication Madness seems like a good read, so I will get stuck in to that.

 

Thanks again everyone for your help. Really great welcoming from you all. 

[MisterSaunders]

I need some clarity here... I currently take 100mg of Zoloft. My doctor has instructed me to take 100mg daily until Sunday, and then take 50mg for a week, and then 50mg every other day, and then stop. 

 

Firstly, I know this is too rapid having read various accounts and tapering tips on this site. So where on earth is she getting her information? I have told her that it seems to quick, but she is adamant that I should be fine. 

 

Secondly, just as a general rant, the sheer ignorance and indifference demonstrated here is nothing short of reckless. Fortunately I know that tapering that quickly causes terrible and unbearable side effects strong enough to set someone back months! Depression medication needs a huge over hall, if not suspension. If I ever get through this, I will be campaigning avidly for this. 

[Altostrata]

Where is your doctor getting her information? Good question. Short answer: She's making it up, or heard it from some other doctor who made it up.

[mammaP]

Where is your doctor getting her information? Good question. Short answer: She's making it up, or heard it from some other doctor who made it up.

And they may have got it from a drug rep......who made it up! 

 

Mr S I'm adding the link to your blog here, more people willsee it  I read it and admire your determination.  

I would hold the dose of AD during the 100 days, or for at least the first 30 so your

brain isn't too shocked by the changes! 

 

http://potionsandpills.wordpress.com/2014/06/22/100-sober-days-challenge-1-complete/

[Rhiannon]

I need some clarity here... I currently take 100mg of Zoloft. My doctor has instructed me to take 100mg daily until Sunday, and then take 50mg for a week, and then 50mg every other day, and then stop. 

 

Firstly, I know this is too rapid having read various accounts and tapering tips on this site. So where on earth is she getting her information? I have told her that it seems to quick, but she is adamant that I should be fine. 

 

Secondly, just as a general rant, the sheer ignorance and indifference demonstrated here is nothing short of reckless. Fortunately I know that tapering that quickly causes terrible and unbearable side effects strong enough to set someone back months! Depression medication needs a huge over hall, if not suspension. If I ever get through this, I will be campaigning avidly for this. 

 

This is where the book Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker comes in. Get it, read it, you won't regret it. Explains the history of drugs/psychiatry/Pharma, how things are, how they got that way. 

 

There's also a website "cepuk.org" that was founded by people with similar concerns, which might be a good resource for you when the time comes if you still want to do campaigning/activist work. Council for Evidence-Based Psychiatry, UK.

[btdt]

Yeah you're right, I really should avoid anything that drastically effects neurotransmitter levels for a while. It's such a pain, because as soon as I resolve to stop drinking, I have ridiculous cravings for sweets, and vice versa - I have gained 40 pounds since I started taking them. I know much has been made about the role of the pancreas in cravings, but  I'm adamant it's all serotonin related. I am not going to take the Mirtazapine, I am going to throw that away. 

 

In the meantime, this Medication Madness seems like a good read, so I will get stuck in to that.

 

Thanks again everyone for your help. Really great welcoming from you all. 

I have an idea for you to try if you like.  

When you are craving booze or sugar have some grated raw beets... I know it sounds odd but it has stopped craving in their tracks for me... some of the time. Not always I think it is sometimes letting the idea of what I want grow to big in my head like say ice cream sandwich once I am obsessed with that I will likely have it... but if I can catch it before I have any idea just the rumblings of I want something if I eat a couple table spoons of grated raw beets then bam it is gone.  I don't know how many calories beets have but would bet it is less than an ice cream sandwich.  Trick here it to have them ready in the fridge grated.  

Peace

[Altostrata]

Or roasted sweet potatoes. Mmmm, they are good.

[btdt]

I know they both have sugar sweet potatoes and beets and I can't say what it is about the beets but they really make me feel well... whenever I get that hang over sick feeling I eat them first.  Be ready for your eliminations to turn red don't be alarmed. I really believe there is something good in the beets for the liver I just don't know what it is.  Sweet potatoes release the sugars over a longer time at a more steady rate I think.  peace all

[Designerguru]

Haven't tried grated raw beets, but definitely love roasted sweet potatoes with fresh rosemary & garlic!! They really do make you feel better. May have to try the beets.

 

Anne

[Altostrata]

Sweet potatoes have an acceptable glycemic index.

[btdt]

supposed health benefits of beets

http://www.healing4soul.com/articles/simple-home-cures/60-natural-properties-and-curative-benefits-of-beet-juice

 

beet salad

grated beet organic is important use rubber gloves to peel and grate

 

Peel grate 2-3 beets 

2 carrots 

1 peeled granny smith apple 

 

Dressing

Half a lemon 

2 T olive oil

1t dijon or any kind of mustard you like

1T honey.  

 

It is interesting.  Very red

Good for you 

 

You know it is very odd how I will crave foods when I need them I craved beets green beans odd things like veggies this is all new since withdrawal. 

[MisterSaunders]

Hi all,

 

Basically, I'll keep it brief. I went on Zoloft 2 years ago for obsessive thoughts, and I have stayed on it ever since. About 3 months ago, I'd noticed my OCD had quietened down, so I thought is address my drinking which had escalated while on the meds.

 

I started tapering...

 

2 weeks ago I took my last pill.

 

2 days ago I was back in the doctors surgery with the same OCD thoughts that put me there in the first place. I refused point blank to go back on any medication, and I demanded therapy. I'm horrified that in the 2 years that I have used Zoloft, no improvement has been made. Nothing.

 

In a few weeks I am starting a 12 week CBT course, and I will see it out to the end - without meds, drinking, smoking, anything. I will beat this. I know that the strength to defeat mental illness comes from within. I WILL face my fears, and I will get better.

[Noscript]

Good on you,I understand psychotherapy is useful for OCD.

It's worth trying mindfullness also.

[btdt]

Hi all,

 

Basically, I'll keep it brief. I went on Zoloft 2 years ago for obsessive thoughts, and I have stayed on it ever since. About 3 months ago, I'd noticed my OCD had quietened down, so I thought is address my drinking which had escalated while on the meds.

 

I started tapering...

 

2 weeks ago I took my last pill.

 

2 days ago I was back in the doctors surgery with the same OCD thoughts that put me there in the first place. I refused point blank to go back on any medication, and I demanded therapy. I'm horrified that in the 2 years that I have used Zoloft, no improvement has been made. Nothing.

 

In a few weeks I am starting a 12 week CBT course, and I will see it out to the end - without meds, drinking, smoking, anything. I will beat this. I know that the strength to defeat mental illness comes from within. I WILL face my fears, and I will get better.

 

I hope you do but if you don't it will likely be a more of a comment on the drug you ingested then on your ability to over come your brain chemistry I have learned the hard way we are a chemical soup and there is only so much we can do to influence the healing or health of our brains after we have assaulted them with these drugs... or brains really don't like and our brain/body adjusts slowly on it own.. not fast like drugs. 

 

Please expect this to take some time and be kind and gentle with your mind/body while it is trying its very best to heal.  

 

I want to put one last comment here... 

years ago... 7  6  5 4 3 I don't know how many years ago there was a scientific study on the subject of serotonin induced alcohol cravings... now I may just have it saved some place and if hard pressed could find it.. but I don't want to look for old stuff I that I am absolutely positive exists... and likely have. 

 

I just want to tell you that this is a scientific fact and I have no understanding of why I cannot do a simple google search and find that science article again ALL I can find are the links to RISK  ... bit tired of seeing it to tell you the truth.  Especially when the small concise bits of science are missing and all the other sites that held such links and science articles have been shut down...neither this site nor the risk site has the science to back it up... yet I know it should be here... what is with that?