csm2014: Lamictal question

[csm2014]

Hi csm ,   is the link you want the one on post 68 of this thread?

 

It's all a bit of trial and error , and others have encountered problems when they change brands like you did.

 

Sounds like you're feeling it out for yourself , so well done.

 

Fresh

Yes, I believe that's the post, thanks!

 

Although they talk about SSRIs, my thinking is that it universally applies to all psych meds, Lamictal being no exception.

 

As Rhi states,

"I've been sloppy about calculating my dose cuts based on current doses because I've been able to get away with it, but now that I'm at low doses I'm having to behave myself or I really get slammed. So at least in my case I was definitely able to be more aggressive with tapering while still at higher doses. There are a lot of anecdotal/experiential accounts of people being able to do that."

 

And Mario states:

"the shapes of the curves also support the idea that the reduction speed should be reduced at lower dosages..."

 

Although anecdotal, it makes perfect sense as to what I had experienced. It also explains why many do ok with bigger cuts at higher doses early on and then have difficulty later.

 

I am just glad I am tapering relatively early in the game as compared to most others. I am just hoping that the order in which meds I have chosen to taper is the right one.

 

The concern then is the problem with remaining on the med longer from a much slower micro-taper in order to stabilize. I made it this far on the Lamictal. I hope I can make it off the Klonopin!

 

Thoughts?

[csm2014]

My biggest concern: staying on a med longer to taper than I was initially on. Not be a good idea.

[Fresh]

There are some people on here who have taken ad's for as little as 5 days and experienced terrible withdrawal

symptoms , so are needing to taper.  

I know it seems ludicrous for the taper to take longer than you were actually on the drugs , but it looks like your system was

sensitive since the thyroid meds in 2010.

 

In your sig. , what does Lamictal q.d. mean?   What happened after 1.24.15 ... how did you come off the Lamictal?

[csm2014]

q.d. = once daily. I updated my signature for the Lamictal taper.

 

After updosing to 12mg, I felt ok for the last couple days, but am now feeling off again starting last night. You think you're making progress then the next day with feeling off, losing confidence in your taper, and start wondering if these are even withdrawal symptoms and not something else. I want so much to be off both these psych meds! Possibly my hypertension meds as well, but that's getting way too far ahead of myself.

Because I'm tapering one at a time, it's prolonging the time I remain on the other (Klonopin). You get this toxic feeling that you're poisoning your body on these meds every day the longer you remain on them and feel impatient and want so much to rush off and just feel yourself again, but that's not possible.

Then, I get desperate again and think - should I updose back to 14mg which would be going way backwards - or just stick it out at the 12mg and hold and see?

It's just surprises me that it's just the Lamictal. There's no way to know what part the Klonopin plays in this as a CNS depressant (downer) as the Lamictal is removed (which acts as an "upper"). All I know is that it would still be unwise for me to start tapering Klonopin at the same time. Also, could be issues with my thyroid or other hormones, etc. Waiting for some new labs in the meantime (I always check liver function, CBC, thyroid, cortisol, etc.). You have to, as we don't know what systems these drugs affect. even short-term.

Anyone care to help sort this out, as I am getting lost with these zigzags and still cannot understand how a 55 year old male fitness freak (me) with the clean unprocessed foods diet has more problems tapering off a drug I was only on a couple mos. while my friend's 93-year old mom can do a rapid taper off Xanax/Klonopin for 9 mos. total seemingly without a hitch.

[csm2014]

Well, totally confused now. Reading on other forums about those that have experienced benzo tolerance withdrawal which once again is making me paranoid that my symptoms could be this and nothing to do with w/ding from Lamictal. How does one know?

Also, I started freaking out on reading the horror stories about PAWS (post acute w/d syndrome) in even those who weren't that long term like me. Some of those people are still suffering after a year and longer after stopping benzos!  In retrospect, I should've only been on K for a couple weeks as is the "safe" recommendation or warning, then tapered! But because the Lamictal taper dragged on longer than planned, I got stuck being on K longer than I wanted, and here I am still dealing with it.

 

It just adds to my apprehension about the outcome. Will I be one of those unfortunate people still suffering a year from now? My whole life has been on hold for a year because of starting blood pressure meds which then led me down the path to psych meds to try and control the symptoms (as I detailed in my signature). I've suffered enough already. This was all caused from bad judgment calls on my part to start on meds out of desperation when I was anti-med and stayed away from them all my life.

On top of that, my most recent 24hr urine cortisol labs are elevated. Morning serum cortisol is also slightly elevated. Saliva normal.

I must also mention that I have still am dealing with other issues which play a part in all this: hypothyroidism and mild sleep apnea.

Sorry to whine and rant, but when you throw all that into the mix and you really can see how mentally overwhelming it can get - which is in addition to the physical part.

Appreciate all input and support.
 

[Pugknows]

Hi csm. I was on gabapentin for three years. It's also an anti seizure med. Have similar symptoms as you describe. Have you felt any better lately?

[csm2014]

Hi csm. I was on gabapentin for three years. It's also an anti seizure med. Have similar symptoms as you describe. Have you felt any better lately?

 

Still get what I call cortisol surges in the early a.m. which make me feel paranoid and unable to get back to sleep. The rest of the day/night I'm pretty stable thus far. I was only on Lamictal for not even 2 mos. before tapering it.

[Pugknows]

The 3am cortisol surges and ensuing anxiety and panic are the pits. It's what I deal with every single day. Good luck to you and a big hug. Pug

[csm2014]

The 3am cortisol surges and ensuing anxiety and panic are the pits. It's what I deal with every single day. Good luck to you and a big hug. Pug

 

I mentioned PAWS in my post, which it sounds like could be affecting you. It seems from what I've read to be more prevalent in those that CT'd a psych med as opposed to those that did a slow taper.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6104-post-acute-withdrawal-syndrome-paws-also-occurs-from-psychiatric-drugs/?hl=paws

 

We all have so very different genetics and biochemistry which makes the whole thing so unpredictable.

[csm2014]

Lamictal Update:

 

I cannot understand why it's taking me so long to taper this med which is over twice as long as I was on it which as you can see from my signature was less than two mos.

 

Again, I question whether the recent cut from a measly 4mg to 2mg is what caused an increase in symptoms the last couple days: agitation, increased urination (worse than before), increased morning cortisol surge. 

 

My labs are all normal for kidney, liver, prostate function. Urinalysis normal also.

[csm2014]

Since it's past my edit time, I wanted to add to my above post. Lost again and don't know what's going on this time. Felt a worsening of these symptoms in the last couple days, worse today, anxiety levels increased and have not changed my dose on my meds or supplements. Prior to this, I had been doing OK with the exception of the morning surge. The timing seems right for too big of a dose cut, but I'm still concerned about Benzo tolerance w/d (I'm not yet tapering mine). My prescribing doc and knowledgeable pharmacist say no way. I updosed back to 4mg last night, by the way. Kind of reminds me of first time I destabilized and then started feeling better after a few days.

 

Any and all input would be greatly appreciated.

[csm2014]

*Post moved from tapering section

 

Destabilization/withdrawal toward end of Lamictal taper or something else now?

 

I wanted to start a separate thread since the one I started was getting too long: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7988-csm2014-lamictal-question/page-3

 

After almost a month of relative diurnal/nocturnal stability (other than the usual early a.m. cortisol surges), I felt confident to move a little more aggressively on my final planned cut of my Lamictal taper, going from 4mg to 2mg. Although it would have been ideal to get off all psych meds together, I decided against a simultaneous taper with Klonopin (as I stated in a previous thread) for concern over compounded withdrawal complications and inability to discern w/d symptoms between meds. Also, I was convinced from Alto’s thread about tapering the AD before the benzo that was also supported by my physician and pharmacist.  

 

As one can view on my updated signature line, I have been cutting for the most part every seven days since January’s initial destabilization, having a few bumps along the way, but stabilizing within a 2-3 days. I realize I “violated” the 10% cut rule, but did not want to prolong my taper any further (as I desperately want to start my K taper) and assumed the dose was so small, how could it make a difference?

 

Come day 4 of my cut, I crashed, this time the symptoms more acute than on prior cuts (worse agitation/anxiety, tight feeling around throat, increased urination day and night, interrupted sleep pattern, constipation, increased morning cortisol surge). I have not changed my diet, dose on my other meds, or supplements. Current lab markers are all normal except 24h urine cortisol which, not surprisingly, showed elevated.

 

Figuring I went too deep on the last cut, I updosed back to 4mg two nights ago. Kind of reminds me of first time I destabilized and then started feeling better after a few days after updosing, but so far, no dice. I still feel lousy. The timing seems right for too big of a dose cut, but I'm still concerned yet again about benzo tolerance w/d. I know I’ve asked that question a million times in my past posts, but was told it is unlikely by more than one source including my doc and pharmacist. But at such a small dose left on my Lamictal taper, I again wonder.

 

The other thing is that I cannot understand why it's taking me so long to taper this med which is over twice as long as I was on it which as you can see from my signature was less than two months!  Am I that hypersensitive to such minute changes?

 

As usual, I would be grateful for any help. 

Edited May 15, 2015 by Petunia
added note

[Altostrata]

This topic is not too long. We'd prefer you keep your entire process of tapering non-benzos together in this one topic.

 

I appreciate the advice to taper with lower cuts, however, here is the catch-22 dilemma I face: I am told I cannot start tapering the Klonopin until already done with the Lamictal because it helps with acting as the "brakes" for glutamate receptor sensitivity when coming off the Lamictal. The longer it takes to taper off the Lamictal, the more time I accrue on the Klonopin (and thus dependency since it is a benzo) which when it comes to taper off it, I fear will be that much harder to taper. I just past the 4-month mark on Klonopin. I never thought the Lamictal would present these difficulties at the dose and duration I was on. My goal was to be already done with the Lamictal and be halfway through my Klonopin taper by now and not continue holding @ 0.5mg b.i.d.

 

Wish I would've never started either, but felt I didn't have a choice at the time.

 

Now, I feel forced and stuck on the Klonopin until I get off the Lamictal.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

I recall reading a post on how sensitivity to w/d increases as we approach the end of a taper (if someone could please re-post the link to this, I'd greatly appreciate).  So I challenged the theory and did some bold experimentation this last week to discover this firsthand and that I am likely no exception.

 

Since my reinstatement I posted upthread, I had cut from 25mg to 14mg in 60 days. My first cut was 10 days @ 22.5mg. From then on, I would cut every 7 days (the next @ 20mg). Since I was relatively stable with these first 2 cuts, I got a bit over-confident from these last 2 cuts (17mg, then 14mg), already breaking the 10% rule. As I was still doing pretty well (except for the early mornings which were transient), I increased my cut even more starting this last week, down to 10mg from 14mg (over 28%). Come the 5th day of the cut, like clockwork, I started feeling worse, with all the same atypical symptoms as prior (waking early and not being able to fall back asleep, agitated, anxious, depressed, moody, achey, loss of appetite).

 

So last night, I decided to updose to 12mg. Although I still felt lousy in the early a.m. today as is typical for me, I gradually felt better by noon and the rest of the day/night, with a marked decrease in overall symptoms vs. yesterday. Again, it amazes me that even 2 lousy milligrams has this effect of my nervous system. Thus, it is so hard to determine whether the way I feel is truly withdrawal and not a myriad of other things when I'm in the moment - and that just makes the suffering worse. How do we really know? They say Lamictal typically doesn't have withdrawal syndrome like benzos. But others have reported it can be just as intense or sometimes worse. 

 

It seems that these cuts take forever, but are so integral to tempering withdrawal. I have to let go of the battle against the clock ticking away and my impatience to start my taper off the Klonopin, but it is hard. I have decided NOT to try and taper more than one med at a time.

 

 

My biggest concern: staying on a med longer to taper than I was initially on. Not be a good idea.

 

 

Lamictal Update:

 

I cannot understand why it's taking me so long to taper this med which is over twice as long as I was on it which as you can see from my signature was less than two mos.

 

Again, I question whether the recent cut from a measly 4mg to 2mg is what caused an increase in symptoms the last couple days: agitation, increased urination (worse than before), increased morning cortisol surge. 

 

My labs are all normal for kidney, liver, prostate function. Urinalysis normal also.

 

csm, you've now found out why we've been talking about tapering at a rate of 10%.

 

Yes, a 50% reduction, from 4mg to 2mg, can cause an increase in symptoms.

 

We're not imposing an arbitrary tapering schedule on you. You need to negotiate this with your own nervous system. What is your nervous system telling you?

[csm2014]

This topic is not too long. We'd prefer you keep your entire process of tapering non-benzos together in this one topic.

 

I appreciate the advice to taper with lower cuts, however, here is the catch-22 dilemma I face: I am told I cannot start tapering the Klonopin until already done with the Lamictal because it helps with acting as the "brakes" for glutamate receptor sensitivity when coming off the Lamictal. The longer it takes to taper off the Lamictal, the more time I accrue on the Klonopin (and thus dependency since it is a benzo) which when it comes to taper off it, I fear will be that much harder to taper. I just past the 4-month mark on Klonopin. I never thought the Lamictal would present these difficulties at the dose and duration I was on. My goal was to be already done with the Lamictal and be halfway through my Klonopin taper by now and not continue holding @ 0.5mg b.i.d.

 

Wish I would've never started either, but felt I didn't have a choice at the time.

 

Now, I feel forced and stuck on the Klonopin until I get off the Lamictal.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

I recall reading a post on how sensitivity to w/d increases as we approach the end of a taper (if someone could please re-post the link to this, I'd greatly appreciate).  So I challenged the theory and did some bold experimentation this last week to discover this firsthand and that I am likely no exception.

 

Since my reinstatement I posted upthread, I had cut from 25mg to 14mg in 60 days. My first cut was 10 days @ 22.5mg. From then on, I would cut every 7 days (the next @ 20mg). Since I was relatively stable with these first 2 cuts, I got a bit over-confident from these last 2 cuts (17mg, then 14mg), already breaking the 10% rule. As I was still doing pretty well (except for the early mornings which were transient), I increased my cut even more starting this last week, down to 10mg from 14mg (over 28%). Come the 5th day of the cut, like clockwork, I started feeling worse, with all the same atypical symptoms as prior (waking early and not being able to fall back asleep, agitated, anxious, depressed, moody, achey, loss of appetite).

 

So last night, I decided to updose to 12mg. Although I still felt lousy in the early a.m. today as is typical for me, I gradually felt better by noon and the rest of the day/night, with a marked decrease in overall symptoms vs. yesterday. Again, it amazes me that even 2 lousy milligrams has this effect of my nervous system. Thus, it is so hard to determine whether the way I feel is truly withdrawal and not a myriad of other things when I'm in the moment - and that just makes the suffering worse. How do we really know? They say Lamictal typically doesn't have withdrawal syndrome like benzos. But others have reported it can be just as intense or sometimes worse. 

 

It seems that these cuts take forever, but are so integral to tempering withdrawal. I have to let go of the battle against the clock ticking away and my impatience to start my taper off the Klonopin, but it is hard. I have decided NOT to try and taper more than one med at a time.

 

 

My biggest concern: staying on a med longer to taper than I was initially on. Not be a good idea.

 

 

Lamictal Update:

 

I cannot understand why it's taking me so long to taper this med which is over twice as long as I was on it which as you can see from my signature was less than two mos.

 

Again, I question whether the recent cut from a measly 4mg to 2mg is what caused an increase in symptoms the last couple days: agitation, increased urination (worse than before), increased morning cortisol surge. 

 

My labs are all normal for kidney, liver, prostate function. Urinalysis normal also.

 

csm, you've now found out why we've been talking about tapering at a rate of 10%.

 

Yes, a 50% reduction, from 4mg to 2mg, can cause an increase in symptoms.

 

We're not imposing an arbitrary tapering schedule on you. You need to negotiate this with your own nervous system. What is your nervous system telling you?

But is it my nervous system telling me that the cut was too much – or – could it be my original underlying unresolved symptoms breaking through? Both doc and pharmacist find it hard to believe that it’s Lamictal w/d at this point. I guess the answer to that is I won't know until and unless I re-stabilize as was the case before. I have to play Devil's Advocate and always question other possibilities. Appreciate your culling together my old post in which I pretty much answer my own question. Talking about anecdotal reports vs. actually going through it, two different things.

[Altostrata]

Really? We tell you if you go too fast, you'll get withdrawal symptoms. You go fast and get withdrawal symptoms. Then you have to play devil's advocate?

 

Seems to me you've been playing devil's advocate all along. Yes, you overthink things. Also -- this is not a debate society. Look around you -- the staff has lots of other people to support.

 

It's easy to find out if you have withdrawal symptoms -- updose slightly. If your symptoms reduce, it's withdrawal.

 

I believe you now have all the information we can give you regarding tapering. If you get confused, read Why taper by 10% of my dosage?   and Tips for tapering off Lamictal (lamotrigine) , re-read this topic, and listen to your body.

[csm2014]

Really? We tell you if you go too fast, you'll get withdrawal symptoms. You go fast and get withdrawal symptoms. Then you have to play devil's advocate?

 

Seems to me you've been playing devil's advocate all along. Yes, you overthink things. Also -- this is not a debate society. Look around you -- the staff has lots of other people to support.

 

It's easy to find out if you have withdrawal symptoms -- updose slightly. If your symptoms reduce, it's withdrawal.

 

I believe you now have all the information we can give you regarding tapering. If you get confused, read Why taper by 10% of my dosage?   and Tips for tapering off Lamictal (lamotrigine) , re-read this topic, and listen to your body.

No question I definitely have a tendency to overthink things (I think that's also part of the symptoms lol!) Again, greatly appreciate clarifying things during a rough patch.

[Fresh]

So what's the plan from here csm?    

Now that you have a better understanding of how you react to changes , it's a good idea to make a plan and stick to it for

at least a month to allow your cns to stabilize.

 

[csm2014]

So what's the plan from here csm?    

Now that you have a better understanding of how you react to changes , it's a good idea to make a plan and stick to it for

at least a month to allow your cns to stabilize.

 

Thanks for checking in.

 

Every time I have a setback, it forces me to re-evaluate the cause, as I've never taken psych meds nor been through a taper or a withdrawal of any kind before in my life, so it all scares the @#$%^ out of me. Each one's a little different than the last so it's hard to correlate and say, oh, this is just the same as last, and I will be fine in X time like before. I've had plenty of health scares since my early 20s, and this is yet another new one to deal with. I need to be educated and do my research, but there is a very fine line between it and developing chronic 'cyberchondria' in which it's easy to become sensitized by the reports one gleans from psych med forums, 99% of which are negative horror stories, and from which we rarely ever hear of the good outcomes simply because those people don't bother posting. The reality I must keep in mind is that no one of us are clones biochemically; we are all so vastly unique - and that goes for how we respond to the meds themselves while on them and when withdrawing from them. Still hard to do when all you read is bad stuff. A quick and timely illustration of this: a very close friend of mine just told me yesterday she was on a cocktail of psych meds 15 years ago which included the benzo, Ativan. She was on them daily for a year for a PTSD disorder and BPD. She knew nothing about these meds, just took them at her doc's advice (I doubt there were many psych med forums back then, if any, for one). She doesn't recall if she tapered them, but recalls she had no issues once she stopped them. Another example: My friend's 93-year-old mother was on Xanax for 5 mos and Klonopin for 4 mos. (9 mos. total on benzos daily), did a rapid 3-week taper 2 mos. ago per her doc (against my advice) and is doing fine. Either ignorance is bliss or we must be the exceptions.

 

In retrospect, putting me on Lamictal was a mistake, added to my Klonopin taper delay, and produced unnecessary suffering, but it's water under the bridge now. The ONLY good thing is that it prepared me to do my K taper.

 

So, in what I've learned in the last few months from the great folks on forums such as this is that I must, (i) listen to my nervous system, and (ii), stay the correct course; that means no deviations despite the disbelief from my doc that these symptoms are from withdrawal and not placebo. The key takeaway from re-reading the Lamictal thread is Rhi's statement, "It turns out that these drugs don't work in a linear way, and the smaller the doses the more slowly we need to taper." Hello! Yet I still cannot believe any of this would apply to me when I was only on 100mg for less than two months before I began my taper!

 

The unfortunate part is these destabilizations just keep prolonging the taper which delays my getting onto the taper I most fear the longer I keep on it: the benzo, Klonopin.

 

The only unknown is whether the underlying nervous system overdrive I was experiencing last year has really resolved. That is a much more complex issue that involved (and still does) my thyroid and blood pressure and the meds I'm on to manage those.

[csm2014]

Update: Within three days of updosing from 2mg back to 4mg, the symptoms began lessening and by this last Friday (15th), I was feeling well enough to meet some friends out for dinner. I felt pretty good all day/night. At least it's a good indication that the improvement shows me this last setback wasn't any of the issues I feared they might be.  Unfortunately, my fairly quick "win" got stifled with a bout of food poisoning from the dinner which started with a fever and the runs yesterday. Can never seem to catch a break!

[csm2014]

My plan has been to completely taper off Lamictal prior to tapering Klonopin, however, this excerpt from Alto's post from this thread [http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3769-lamictal-lamotrigine-to-calm-post-discontinuation-withdrawal-symptoms] got me thinking whether I should keep a low dose and hold (say 4mg which is where I'm at on my taper) and then commence my K taper as opposed to tapering completely off Lamictal first thinking it may help with the K w/d:
 
"The low-dose Lamictal reduces the withdrawal-induced alerting reaction (unhealthy homeostasis) so the nervous system's natural functioning can take over and re-establish a healthy homeostasis. This is fragile at first but gets stronger -- as in all healing patterns."
 
Welcome all input on this.

[Fresh]

csm ,    after a hiccup like you've just had , you should probably stay the same doses of everything for at least a month.

 

You can try and outwit withdrawal syndrome , but you don't usually win.

 

You've just cut the lamital in half , got sick , doubled it back up , and started to get better.

This is the time for pursuing your life - do some other things besides obsessing over medications.

 

I'm not able to wade through your signature , sorry.  It looks a bit like a wall of words.

The idea is to have a clear summary of recent meds that readers can understand at a glance.   

You may want to summarize it , and you'll find more people will respond.  

Try reading the topic on "Please put your withdrawal history In Your Signature" in "Read This First.".

[csm2014]

csm ,    after a hiccup like you've just had , you should probably stay the same doses of everything for at least a month.

 

You can try and outwit withdrawal syndrome , but you don't usually win.

 

You've just cut the lamital in half , got sick , doubled it back up , and started to get better.

This is the time for pursuing your life - do some other things besides obsessing over medications.

 

I'm not able to wade through your signature , sorry.  It looks a bit like a wall of words.

The idea is to have a clear summary of recent meds that readers can understand at a glance.   

You may want to summarize it , and you'll find more people will respond.  

Try reading the topic on "Please put your withdrawal history In Your Signature" in "Read This First.".

I agree on the hold, as I have been relatively stable and doing well since updosing (except for early morning anxiety/depression) but a month seems too long to hold off on still not starting tapering the Klonopin - perhaps my paranoia over all that I've read about it that's made me benzophobic. What are your thoughts? I feel I'm way over the time I wanted to be on it and the longer I stay stuck on it, the worse I fear my w/d will be based on everything I've read. 

 

As for my signature section, I separated my detailed history in the first paragraph from my med summary in the second paragraph so that one could choose to peruse either. I felt it important to know what gave rise to my issues and what makes my case unique from others. I think my med summary is very clear and put a lot of effort in it to be as accurate to the date.  Nonetheless, I took your advice, edited the meds section,  put it first, made it a larger font, and added headers for both in the hopes that it will make it a little clearer.

[csm2014]

I have two meds to taper off; Lamictal (which I've tapered from 100mg to 4mg since last Dec. and was planned to be done by end of Jan.), and then onto Klonopin. After careful consideration and advice, my decision was to taper off one med at a time, starting with Lamictal, but because of my unexpected reactions likely from my recent cuts, the taper took longer than planned, well past the point of my goal to have been tapered off Klonopin by now.

But this excerpt from Alto's post on this thread [http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3769-lamictal-lamotrigine-to-calm-post-discontinuation-withdrawal-symptoms/] got me thinking whether I should keep a low dose and hold (say 4mg which is where I'm at on my taper) and then commence my K taper as opposed to tapering completely off Lamictal first thinking it may help with the K w/d:

"The low-dose Lamictal reduces the withdrawal-induced alerting reaction (unhealthy homeostasis) so the nervous system's natural functioning can take over and re-establish a healthy homeostasis. This is fragile at first but gets stronger -- as in all healing patterns."

Maybe I am over-thinking and wrought with benzophobia, but I feel this has put me into the "red zone" for all the things I've read about Klonopin once you go beyond the six-month mark.

This is a good example of a taper lasting longer than the time originally on the med, but should I really be freaking out about that?. I've heard the words "throw out the calendar", but am concerned that tapers going past the time on the drug.

For those familiar with Lamictal, I would appreciate all input on this.

[Skyler]

This is a good example of a taper lasting longer than the time originally on the med, but should I really be freaking out about that?. I've heard the words "throw out the calendar", but am concerned that tapers going past the time on the drug.

 

For those familiar with Lamictal, I would appreciate all input on this.

 

Yup.. throw out the calendar and listen to your body.  Good advice.  You can't do any better than that.  After all, your body is not saying... "Let me think about this, I was only on a little while, so what I feel must not matter".... I'm afraid it is what it is.. and intellectualizing about the absurdity will not countermand the signals your body is sending.  A lot of things happen to us in life that do not just reverse once the triggering event stops, and the same is true of drugs... you can't just rewind the clock.

 

Sounds like you heard "throw out the calendar" from Rhi.. smart lady.

 

PS..  this post belongs in your intro thread.. or your benzo thread as it pertains to your personal journey.

 

edited.

[csm2014]

 

This is a good example of a taper lasting longer than the time originally on the med, but should I really be freaking out about that?. I've heard the words "throw out the calendar", but am concerned that tapers going past the time on the drug.

 

For those familiar with Lamictal, I would appreciate all input on this.

 

Yup.. throw out the calendar and listen to your body.  Good advice.  You can't do any better than that.  After all, your body is not saying... "Let me think about this, I was only on a little while, so what I feel must not matter".... I'm afraid it is what it is.. and intellectualizing about the absurdity will not countermand the signals your body is sending.  A lot of things happen to us in life that do not just reverse once the triggering event stops, and the same is true of drugs... you can't just rewind the clock.

 

Sounds like you heard that from Rhi.. smart lady.

 

PS..  this post belongs in your intro thread.. or your benzo thread as it pertains to your personal journey.

 

edited.

 

Yes, I had posted a shorter version already in my intro thread & figured it might get moved over there anyway, but felt it needed more specific attention to get more responses so I got "desperate". I think it was Rhi that also mentioned tapering more than one med at a time, something I was afraid to do at the time, but now I wonder if I should take the plunge or stick to my original plan and finish off the Lamictal first. Again, I just hate putting off the K taper any longer which is why that quote from Alto inspired me.

[Skyler]

 

Yes, I had posted a shorter version already in my intro thread & figured it might get moved over there anyway, but felt it needed more specific attention to get more responses so I got "desperate". I think it was Rhi that also mentioned tapering more than one med at a time, something I was afraid to do at the time, but now I wonder if I should take the plunge or stick to my original plan and finish off the Lamictal first. Again, I just hate putting off the K taper any longer which is why that quote from Alto inspired me.

 

 

This topic is not too long. We'd prefer you keep your entire process of tapering non-benzos together in this one topic.t is your nervous system telling you?

 

The intro thread gets the most traffic.  And your responses will be more comprehensive if you keep the reports of your journey together.  Also, keeping all your info together helps the mods because they don't need to take up time moving posts.

 

I believe you now have all the information we can give you regarding tapering. If you get confused, read Why taper by 10% of my dosage?   and Tips for tapering off Lamictal (lamotrigine) , re-read this topic, and listen to your body.

 

As Alto said, it would be better to hold the Lamactil, and start to taper the K. when you feel stable on the K.  You have asked the same questions over and over, which is one of the reasons you are not getting as many responses as you once did.  After a certain point, we revert to "Asked and answered, please reread your thread."

 

EDITED

[csm2014]

 

 

Yes, I had posted a shorter version already in my intro thread & figured it might get moved over there anyway, but felt it needed more specific attention to get more responses so I got "desperate". I think it was Rhi that also mentioned tapering more than one med at a time, something I was afraid to do at the time, but now I wonder if I should take the plunge or stick to my original plan and finish off the Lamictal first. Again, I just hate putting off the K taper any longer which is why that quote from Alto inspired me.

 

 

This topic is not too long. We'd prefer you keep your entire process of tapering non-benzos together in this one topic.t is your nervous system telling you?

 

The intro thread gets the most traffic.  And your responses will be more comprehensive if you keep the reports of your journey together.  Also, keeping all your info together helps the mods because they don't need to take up time moving posts.

 

I believe you now have all the information we can give you regarding tapering. If you get confused, read Why taper by 10% of my dosage?   and Tips for tapering off Lamictal (lamotrigine) , re-read this topic, and listen to your body.

 

As Alto said, it would be better to hold the Lamactil, and start to taper the K. when you feel stable on the K.  You have asked the same questions over and over, which is one of the reasons you are not getting as many responses as you once did.  After a certain point, we revert to "Asked and answered, please reread your thread."

 

EDITED

 

Thanks for the clarifications and thanks for re-routing my post! I shall heed your advice and keep within my existing threads unless it's completely an unrelated topic. You are absolutely right, and caught me dead on; and I think part of w/d are these neurotic repetitive ruminations (which I just saw a thread on today earlier) wherein I keep asking the same questions over and over since day one like some insane loop. Either that or the supposed dementia that benzos cause have started in early on me, lol!   

[csm2014]

 

[Skyler]

The subject of what to taper first, Lamactil or Klonopin was also covered in your benzo thread.

[csm2014]

The subject of what to taper first, Lamactil or Klonopin was also covered in your benzo thread.

The only one that I'm confused and that I don't recall is Alto's previous suggestion that it would be better to hold the Lamictal and start the K taper (I didn't see that in in either of her threads). Sorry, but can't find that one.

[Skyler]

 

The subject of what to taper first, Lamactil or Klonopin was also covered in your benzo thread.

The only one that I'm confused and that I don't recall is Alto's previous suggestion that it would be better to hold the Lamictal and start the K taper (I didn't see that in in either of her threads). Sorry, but can't find that one.

 

 

csm.. you are still being obsessive... read the lamactil thread Alto gave you, then read the benzo thread.  You have enough information.  I'm sorry, I can't respond further at this time, it's too frustrating.

[Skyler]

You can find extensive discussions about lamactil and a benzodiazepine (clonazepam in this instance)  here and here.. for some reason we just had several people who were taking Lamactil at the same time as benzodiazepines.  These should give you all the information you would ever want, and then some. 

[csm2014]

You can find extensive discussions about lamactil and a benzodiazepine (clonazepam in this instance)  here and here.. for some reason we just had several people who were taking Lamactil at the same time as benzodiazepines.  These should give you all the information you would ever want, and then some.  Oh, and this from a member who is on Ativan and who just started to take Lamactil.

Much appreciated Skyler, for your continued support, advice and patience with me during these challenging times. I will read these links thoroughly in hopes they will give me the confidence and tools to move forward with my continued exodus from this Rabbit Hole.

[csm2014]

 

You can find extensive discussions about lamactil and a benzodiazepine (clonazepam in this instance)  here and here.. for some reason we just had several people who were taking Lamactil at the same time as benzodiazepines.  These should give you all the information you would ever want, and then some.  Oh, and this from a member who is on Ativan and who just started to take Lamactil.

Much appreciated Skyler, for your continued support, advice and patience with me during these challenging times. I will read these links thoroughly in hopes they will give me the confidence and tools to move forward with my continued exodus from this Rabbit Hole.

 

Finally had a chance to thoroughly peruse the links you suggested, however, the 2nd one went to a dead page (but was able to figure out this is the same guy's thread on the benzo forum: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8938-i-just-reinstated-klonopin-after-a-year-i-need-urgent-advice/ and the last one had no mention of him using Lamictal, just Ativan. Just thought I should let you know in case you possibly sent the wrong link. 

[Skyler]

 

Finally had a chance to thoroughly peruse the links you suggested, however, the 2nd one went to a dead page (but was able to figure out this is the same guy's thread on the benzo forum: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8938-i-just-reinstated-klonopin-after-a-year-i-need-urgent-advice/ and the last one had no mention of him using Lamictal, just Ativan. Just thought I should let you know in case you possibly sent the wrong link. 

You can find extensive discussions about lamactil and a benzodiazepine (clonazepam in this instance)  here and here.. for some reason we just had several people 

 

 

Hmm, I just did a search of the thread using the search function in the upper right hand corner and did find a mention.  In any case, it does not sound like it helped.  We have discussed Lamactil quite a bit of late.  Have you tried using Doc Google?  Put in survivingantidepressants.org: lamatcil.  You may find this to be more helpful. https://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&q=survivingantidepressants.org+lamactil&oq=survivingantidepressants.org+lamactil&gs_l=serp.3...3779.14530.0.15298.37.37.0.0.0.0.153.3269.33j4.37.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..8.29.2591.8k7RF3_O_0g

[csm2014]

Now at the crossroads and need to make a decision. Was always told the rule is to taper one psych med at a time.

However, what's the case if one med may actually help dampen the effects of withdrawing from the other based on anecdotal data from the threads I have perused (and the excerpt posted below) that Lamictal can actually help ease benzo w/d?

Case in point: Lamictal, when tapering a benzo; in my case, Klonopin, which I started at the same time.

Between my own research + the urging of two of my docs, I began to taper the L first at year end and have successfully tapered with only one major setback thus far starting from 100mg and making it to 2mg since then. Due to recent hiccup in cutting too fast on my last L cut about three weeks ago, I updosed back to 4mg and have been holding for the last three weeks and have stabilized.

So here are the options:

Option #1: move forward with Plan A and carefully (slowly) finish out my L taper then jump, wait a couple weeks, then proceed with the K taper at a 10% cut rate. Cons: keeps me stuck on the K longer than planned.

Option #2: go to Plan B and hold the L @ 4mg (where I have stabilized for now) and move forward commence the K taper. Once I've completely tapered the K and waited a couple weeks, I will restart my L taper and jump.

The bottom line is that I hope I've given my nervous system just enough time to recover from what it's been through which is detailed here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/9248-antihypertensive-med-withdrawal-psych-meds-not-the-only-drugs-to-cause-paws/

I appreciate any and all advice in helping me make this crucial decision.

**Any of the anticonvulsants, including benzos, may help reduce prolonged withdrawal symptoms, but each drug carries its own risks, including triggering hyper-reactivity and paradoxical reactions. They are helpful because they reduce nervous system activity, in different ways. For example, benzos ramp up the GABA system, the body's natural regulatory (dampening) mechanism. However, they might do this too strongly, causing the body's alerting system set up an alarm, and they tend to weaken the native regulatory system, causing dependency.  Lamictal (lamotrigine) is unique in that it targets glutamatergic transmission in the alerting system, dampening that type of alerting. It does not downregulate GABA receptors.**