EmergingFromTheVoid Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Is there any correlation between healing faster or slower, and a rapid window/wave pattern or a slow window/wave pattern? If I had to guess, I would think that a slow pattern is better as it would be less stressful on the CNS. On the other hand, a fast window/wave pattern could indicate that there are more rapid repair (wave) and stablizing (window) actions going on. Thoughts? Antidepressants: On ADs for approx. 8 years. 30 mg/day of Escitalopram w/ Wellbutrin (unsure of dosage), for several years. 5 years ago I tapered off Wellbutrin. 3 years ago I tapered to 20 mg/day of Escitalopram. I started to taper the Escitalopram again -- cut my dose to 10 mg/day on Oct. 21st, 2019 . Cut to 5 mg/day on Nov. 9th, 2019. Cut to 2.5 mg/day on Nov. 25th, 2019. Cut to 0 mg/day on Dec. 12th, 2019 -- AD Free! 🙂 Daily Supplements: One-A-Day Woman's Multivitamin, Caltrate Plus chewable, Cranberry pill w/ added vitamin C & E, Omega 3 and an Iron supplement. "This too shall pass." 🎵 Fight Song by Rachel Platten🎵 All postings © copyrighted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenlady Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 I've been slow-tapering for 2 years and have never had a window, so I don't think there is any correlation between speed of taper and window/wave pattern. I have the same symptoms as those who rapid-tapered or went CT. 2016-Aug-Prescribed 2 mg Ativan & 10 mg Ambien; Oct-c/o from 20 mg Lexapro to 60 mg Cymbalta; Nov-Dec-Tapered off 10 mg Ambien 2017-Jan-Feb c/o from 1.75 mg Ativan to 13 mg Valium & begin daily liquid micro taper; May-taper Cymbalta 60 mg to 48 mg with severe withdrawals. Begin 11 month Cymbalta hold. 2018-Jan 11 completed Valium taper; Apr-Resume Cymbalta taper. Interval dose progress: Apr 43 mg; May 40 mg; Jul 35 mg; Sep 29 mg; Dec 21 mg; 2019- Apr 14 mg; Jun 11 mg; Aug 9 mg; Oct 7 mg; Nov 6 mg 2020-Jan 5.2 mg; Feb 4.8 mg; Mar 4.3 mg; Apr 3.9 mg; May 3.5 mg; Jun 3.3 mg; Jul 2.9 mg; Aug 2.7 mg; 28 Sep 2.4 mg/12 beads; 25 Oct 2.2 mg/11 beads; 22 Nov 2.0 mg/10 beads; 20 Dec 1.8 mg/9 beads 2021- 17 Jan 1.6 mg/8 beads; 14 Feb 1.4 mg/7 beads; 18 Mar 1.2 mg/6 beads; 18 Apr 1.0 mg/5 beads; 16 May 0.8 mg/4 beads; 13 Jun 0.6 mg/3 beads; 11 Jul 0.5 mg/2 beads; 8 Aug .03 mg/1 bead; 5 Sep 0 mg. Brutal, agonizing, slow 4.5 year Cymbalta taper completed as of 5 Sep 2021. 100% psych drug free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 15, 2020 Administrator Share Posted January 15, 2020 You've had an unusually bad time, gardenlady. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pens Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 On 12/13/2019 at 7:02 AM, Nevertoolate said: It will take time but just take reach day as it comes. Listen to your body be kind to yourself and just know all of this will pass. Thankyou, I read this post. I’m 63 as well and am feeling low. It encouraged me! Happy for your success. 2017–20 18 sertraline 50 mg 2018 Pristiq 50 mg 2018 Ciprolex 10 mg 2019 bupropion 150 mg 2019 to 2020 Mirtazapine 7.5 mg 2019 clonazepam 0.5 mg 2020 escitolopram 10 mg 2020 May Pre-Gabalin 150 mg, June sertraline 100 mg to 50 mg, December pre Gabalin 110 mg 2021, December pre-Gabalin 53.5 mg to 48 mg, December sertraline 38.8 mg to 38 mg 2022, January sertraline 38 mg to 36 mg, February sertraline 36 mg to 34 mg, March pre-Gabalin 48 mg to 46.2 mg, April 5 sertraline 34 mg to 33.6 mg., April 24, Sertraline 33.6 mg to 32.9 mg, April 24, stopped Calcium citrate 150 mg, May 4 melatonin 1.25, reducing melatonin see posts., May 2, Brand change on sertraline and pregabalin May 13 Sertraline 31.2 mg May 21 Sertraline 30.8 mg, May 28, Sertraline 30 mg, June 6 29.2 mg, June 16, 29.2 mg to 28 mg. July 4, Sertraline 28 mg to 27.4 mg, August 7, 27.4 mg to 24.8mg, August 11 pregabalin from 46.2 to 45 mg, Oct 11; Sertraline 24.4mg, Oct 18, 24 mg., Oct. 25, 23.5 mg, Nov 2, 23.2mg, Dec 2, pregabalin 43.2 mg, Dec. 29, Sertraline 22.4 mg, February 3/23 Sertraline 22 mg,, Feb 24, 22.6. Mg, melatonin From black cherry juice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom37 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Just wondering if anyone here has started feeling a lot better and had a long period at baseline to only then fall backwards and go back into a nasty cycle of bad waves? And can you get bad waves while close to recovery or does having these bad waves mean I’ve still got a long way to go? 20mg Lexapro 2007 10mg Lexapro 2012 Started tapering approx (October 2017) 12 months ago from 10mg to 9mg then 8 then 7 then 6 then 5 then 4 then 3. Held for approx 4 to 6 weeks min on each reduction. Hit severe symptoms (started 7th Nov) after dropping to 3mg. Dropped to 3mg approx 22nd October. Back to 4mg (7th November) and stabilising. Current symptoms started 23rd November 2018 Used diazepam (2018) 10mg 10th Nov, 5mg 11th Nov, 2.5mg 12 Nov, 2mg 13th Nov. Used diazepam 10mg 24th Nov, 7.5 25th Nov and 5mg 26th November 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysideup69 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 48 minutes ago, Tom37 said: Just wondering if anyone here has started feeling a lot better and had a long period at baseline to only then fall backwards and go back into a nasty cycle of bad waves? And can you get bad waves while close to recovery or does having these bad waves mean I’ve still got a long way to go? I read here and on Bloom in Wellness that you can have your worst wave before total recovery.....anything is possible January 2008 to April 2015 Citalopram 20mg to 5mg, reducing in 50 per cent leaps. Jumped off at 5mg March 2016 used MDMA triggered setback April 2016 Citalopram 10mg October 2016 cut to 5mg, May 2017 cut to 2.5mg May 2018 used MDMA triggered setback June 2018 Citalopram 2.5mg up to 10mg, then back to 5mg July/ August 2018 7.5mg, then 10mg June 2019 updosed to 20mg Citalopram August 2019 cold switch to Venlafaxine 75mg XR Supplements; 1100mg fish oil daily; also 100mg Magnesium Glycinate. Tried Vagifem 10mcg from mid May 2021 to mid June 2021; caused depression, so stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy398 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 I read that somewhere too. So fingers crossed Tom 🧡 I have a window/ wave pattern that I’m not sure others have experienced. I’m interested in opinions. Everyday I experience waves and windows. It will either be a wave heavy day with a bit of a window in the evening when I’m with my family or vice versa when a wave comes mid afternoon. I cry most days at the moment when in a wave. I try to hold it together but just don’t seem to manage it. Is this a withdrawal pattern or more a relapse pattern. Take care everyone breathe in the energy and hope those windows offer and breathe through the waves they will pass. Kx Lexapro Fast Track/ Cold Turkey Last dose end Dec 2018 Tapered 1/2 a daily dose a week (20mg) for 14 weeks, last dose was a 20 mg pill!! 3.5 times slower than Psychiatrist recommended, I felt proud of myself!! Little did I know!!!!Got too scared to reinstate because I’d left it too long. On ADs for 20 years (Prozac approx 10 years/ Pristiq approx 3 years/ Citalipram approx 2 years/. Lexapro a approx 5 years/. Last two years 40mgs Lexapro day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nena59 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 I know over the past 3 years my baseline has improved but I am so tired of feeling depressed, lack of desire to do anything, and at times anxious. I usually have a window in the evening, but more than half of my days I am in a wave and have to PUSH myself to do things. I can't figure out any pattern. My concern too is that if this is supposed to gradually get better, I am in for a much longer recovery than I thought. It can be really discouraging. I'm so glad to have this forum, some hope! Oct 2016. 20 years fluoxetine (20 mg) and bupropion (400 mg). Ceased fluoxetine without taper and bupropion after 4 wk taper. Initial extreme fatigue resolved into moderate fatigue and depression with occasional brain zaps and tingling skin. Oct 2017. Anhedonia, 90% of my day. Occasional anxiety. Milder brain zaps. In past two weeks, 3 window days and 11 wave days. May 2019. Anhedonia, infrequent anxiety, mild brain zaps. Sleeping 6 hours nightly after lifetime of 8 hours. Typical daily pattern is wave until late afternoon, window until bedtime. Occasional full day windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali75 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 I’m in a similar situation. Almost 2.5 years off and feeling like I’m in a wave most of the time, albeit with a baseline that is generally improving. It’s very discouraging, but I have had windows that lasted a few weeks at a time, which gives me hope that I can fully recover. I had hoped to feel better by this point, but after being on a drug for over 20 years, I guess recovery takes some time. 1996-2007 - sertraline 200 mg/day 2007-3/16 - sertraline 100 mg/day 3/16-8/16 - sertraline 75 mg/day 8/16-1/17 - sertraline 50 mg/day 1/17-8/17 - sertraline 25 mg/day, St. John's Wort 700-1250 mg/day 8/17 - Stopped sertraline and continued taking SJW. Soon after, stopped SJW and started 400 mg SAM-e/day. 2/18 - Reinstated SJW (taking sporadically) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus getofflex Posted January 29, 2020 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted January 29, 2020 Perhaps the anxiety and depression, etc is more than just a sign of PAWS. Perhaps there are underlying issues we have that need to be dealt with. Someone told me that in another thread, and I think they were right. For me, I returned to AA after being gone for years because I was tempted to go back to drinking. I've discovered that I indeed have some deeper emotional and spiritual issues that need to be addressed. I am feeling SO much less anxious and depressed since returning to AA. One huge thing AA and my sponsor do is get me out of myself. She is having me do service and help other alcoholics. This helps me focus less on me and my problems and suffering, and more on someone else. This breaks the pain cycle for me, and it gives me joy and a sense of purpose, even when I'm not feeling good. I have a very strong sponsor who is taking me through the 12 steps, and this is helping immensely! Therapy can also be a big help for anxiety and depression. It could be that the underlying emotional issues make the physical withdrawal worse, or vice versa. Our minds and bodies affect each other that way. Please do not private message me. Only tag me for urgent questions about tapering and reinstating - thank you. ***Please note this is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a doctor who understands psych meds and how to withdraw from them, if you can find one. Lexapro Started Apr 15 2010 - 10 mg; started taper August 2017, recent taper info: Apr 2 '20 0.18 mg; Jul 16 0.17 mg, Aug 23 0.16 mg, Oct 7 0.15 mg, Nov 8 - 0.14, Jan 16 '21 - 0.13, Feb 7 - 0.12, Feb 22 - 0.11, Mar 26 - 0.10, May 21 - 0.09, June 15 - 0.08 Aug 16 - 0.07, Oct 6 - 0.06, Nov 21 0.05, Dec. 17 0.04, Jan 14 '22 0.03, Feb 19 0.02, Apr 18 0.01, May 15 0.005, Jul 8, 0.00. Psych Drug Free as of July 8, 2022!! Woohoo!!! other meds: Levothyroxine 75 mg magnesium in small amounts at 4 AM, before bed suppl AM: fish oil, flax oil, vit C, vit E, multivitamin, zinc suppl 8 PM: magnesium 350 mg, extended release vitamin C, melatonin 2 mg Paxil 2002 - 2010, switched to Lexapro 2010 Trazodone 50 mg. 2002 - 2019, fast tapered in 2019 Xanax 0.5 mg as needed 2002 - 2019, up to 3x weekly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nena59 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 7 hours ago, getofflex said: Perhaps the anxiety and depression, etc is more than just a sign of PAWS. Perhaps there are underlying issues we have that need to be dealt with. Someone told me that in another thread, and I think they were right. For me, I returned to AA after being gone for years because I was tempted to go back to drinking. I've discovered that I indeed have some deeper emotional and spiritual issues that need to be addressed. I am feeling SO much less anxious and depressed since returning to AA. One huge thing AA and my sponsor do is get me out of myself. She is having me do service and help other alcoholics. This helps me focus less on me and my problems and suffering, and more on someone else. This breaks the pain cycle for me, and it gives me joy and a sense of purpose, even when I'm not feeling good. I have a very strong sponsor who is taking me through the 12 steps, and this is helping immensely! Therapy can also be a big help for anxiety and depression. It could be that the underlying emotional issues make the physical withdrawal worse, or vice versa. Our minds and bodies affect each other that way. I have been wondering that for awhile. I have tried several counselors and they want me to go on drugs or try that new brain zappy thingy. I'm waiting for a call back to a new counselor now. I went on Prozac 20 years ago for pms. I wasn't suffering from anxiety or anhedonia...both a part of my life after quitting. I get discouraged because I do have windows, so I know what it can be. Oct 2016. 20 years fluoxetine (20 mg) and bupropion (400 mg). Ceased fluoxetine without taper and bupropion after 4 wk taper. Initial extreme fatigue resolved into moderate fatigue and depression with occasional brain zaps and tingling skin. Oct 2017. Anhedonia, 90% of my day. Occasional anxiety. Milder brain zaps. In past two weeks, 3 window days and 11 wave days. May 2019. Anhedonia, infrequent anxiety, mild brain zaps. Sleeping 6 hours nightly after lifetime of 8 hours. Typical daily pattern is wave until late afternoon, window until bedtime. Occasional full day windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nena59 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 On 1/27/2020 at 8:54 PM, Ali75 said: I’m in a similar situation. Almost 2.5 years off and feeling like I’m in a wave most of the time, albeit with a baseline that is generally improving. It’s very discouraging, but I have had windows that lasted a few weeks at a time, which gives me hope that I can fully recover. I had hoped to feel better by this point, but after being on a drug for over 20 years, I guess recovery takes some time. That's great that you have such long windows! I will just keep plugging along! Oct 2016. 20 years fluoxetine (20 mg) and bupropion (400 mg). Ceased fluoxetine without taper and bupropion after 4 wk taper. Initial extreme fatigue resolved into moderate fatigue and depression with occasional brain zaps and tingling skin. Oct 2017. Anhedonia, 90% of my day. Occasional anxiety. Milder brain zaps. In past two weeks, 3 window days and 11 wave days. May 2019. Anhedonia, infrequent anxiety, mild brain zaps. Sleeping 6 hours nightly after lifetime of 8 hours. Typical daily pattern is wave until late afternoon, window until bedtime. Occasional full day windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecowisback Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 like you nena i was on prozac for 20 years. i tapered too quickly and had 2years with very few windows. i went back on a low dose of prozac a year ago but things are still rough. i hope you start to see some light at the end of your tunnel soon xxx Took prozac 40 mg for 20 years. January 2017 started cutting down prozac by 12.5% a week. End of February 2017 completely off prozac and withdrawals began. Currently taking Levothyroxine 75 mcg, Magnesium citrate 200mg,Sage leaf 50mg daily Amlodipine: October 2017 , discontinued 26 Feb 2019; Candesartan: 26 Feb 2019, 4mg. Discontinued magnesium citrate 200mg Apr 3rd 2019 Reinstated prozac: 14 Jan 2019, 1mg; 26 Jan, 1.5mg; 4 Feb, 2mg; 16 Feb, 2.5mg; 2 Mar, 3mg; 5 Mar, 2.5mg, 23 Mar, 3 mg; 6 Apr, 3.5mg, 14 Apr 4mg, 23 Apr 5mg, 10 Jul 8mg, 1 Dec 20mg, 1 Apr 2020 40mg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus getofflex Posted January 29, 2020 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted January 29, 2020 2 hours ago, Nena59 said: I have been wondering that for awhile. I have tried several counselors and they want me to go on drugs or try that new brain zappy thingy. I'm waiting for a call back to a new counselor now. I went on Prozac 20 years ago for pms. I wasn't suffering from anxiety or anhedonia...both a part of my life after quitting. I get discouraged because I do have windows, so I know what it can be. I'm just speaking for myself personally here. I hope to never ever have to go back on psych meds, and will do whatever I can to avoid them, if possible. It is just too damn hard and painful to wean off of them. At least for me, I feel the meds were covering up issues, and not truly solving any problem. Jennifer Please do not private message me. Only tag me for urgent questions about tapering and reinstating - thank you. ***Please note this is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a doctor who understands psych meds and how to withdraw from them, if you can find one. Lexapro Started Apr 15 2010 - 10 mg; started taper August 2017, recent taper info: Apr 2 '20 0.18 mg; Jul 16 0.17 mg, Aug 23 0.16 mg, Oct 7 0.15 mg, Nov 8 - 0.14, Jan 16 '21 - 0.13, Feb 7 - 0.12, Feb 22 - 0.11, Mar 26 - 0.10, May 21 - 0.09, June 15 - 0.08 Aug 16 - 0.07, Oct 6 - 0.06, Nov 21 0.05, Dec. 17 0.04, Jan 14 '22 0.03, Feb 19 0.02, Apr 18 0.01, May 15 0.005, Jul 8, 0.00. Psych Drug Free as of July 8, 2022!! Woohoo!!! other meds: Levothyroxine 75 mg magnesium in small amounts at 4 AM, before bed suppl AM: fish oil, flax oil, vit C, vit E, multivitamin, zinc suppl 8 PM: magnesium 350 mg, extended release vitamin C, melatonin 2 mg Paxil 2002 - 2010, switched to Lexapro 2010 Trazodone 50 mg. 2002 - 2019, fast tapered in 2019 Xanax 0.5 mg as needed 2002 - 2019, up to 3x weekly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emerik Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 i CT celexa , 20mg was 1 year on it. didnt know better and i forgot tbh. 3 months later it hitted me just in time for new year. ! reinstated 20mg of celexa under 2 weeks because though symptoms coming back. 20mg on 10 of january its been a month now i had so many weird waves, windows in my waves i cant really sleep, sometime 0 hours sometime 2, sometime 4. in my last windows i have been totally normal for 10 days and sleep fine and did everything, though i was cured, classic. but it came crashing again. have you guys had those intense windows? ive feel better than last week but still. 2017: Celexa for anxiety and phobia 5mg to 10 to 20mg, on and off, nothing major, no problem 2018: Celexa on and off 20mg, feel good and living fully like before. 2019: Celexa on and off 20mg, feel good. 2019 October: Cold turkey celexa 20mg, didnt know any better. Moved Canada to Germany. Moving back June. 2020 January 1-2-3: Severe Sleeping problems, obsessive health. 2020 January 4: Reinstatement Celexa 10mg, to 20mg in two weeks. my choice. (Stabilizing on 20mg for a while) 2020 January: Sleeping on and off, either 0 or some hours. waves and windows present. zopiclone for one week, work ok. can fall asleep on bad days. managed ! 2020 February: zolpidem 10 pills.Waves and first window of 100%, though i was healed. and waves. 2021-present : citalopram 20mg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miko789 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Im 3 years off paxil. Now Im 2 almost 2 years off risp. I have btw back and forth wave. I think my system is destabilised. Or i suppose its burst of anger caused by wd o med. My plan is 6 months to move ahead until August stressful events were root. 2011 protracted withdrawal symptoms from Effexor, managed to come off 2013-2015 risperidone consta 50 mg, started tapering from March 2015 to 1,66mg/day and from 02/2015 started seroxat 10mg/day 01/17 Seroxat 2,0mg,olanzapine 5mg,risperidone consta 25mg/every 15days 05/17 Seroxat 1mg,olanzapine 5mg,risp.consta 25mg/every 15days 06/17 Seroxat 2drops,olanzapine 5mg,liquid risperidone2mg 07/17 Seroxat 1 drop,olanzapine 5mg,Risperidone 0mg, 10/17 Seroxat 0mg,olanzapine,5mg,Risperidone 0mg, 12/17 Seroxat 1/2 drop, olanzapine 5mg, 04/18 Olanzapine 1,25mg, 04/18 xanax 0,5mg 24/06/2019 doc said to take 10mg olanzapine for 13days and down to 5mg been taking 10mg for 14 days, 5mg for 8 days and tapered to 3/4quart. 5mg for 14 days, 1/2 for 14 days, 01/08/19 2,5mg 08/2021 5mg olanzapine Supplements Omega 3, Turmeric, Bacopa monneri, Mucuna Pruriens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurvivingOnAnime Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 Do we sometimes cause or trigger our waves? I wonder if my devouring all the info on this site for the past few days has made me a bit aggravated. (Not the forum's fault of course.) Also, is there any rhyme or reason to the length and strength of these waves? Do they get shorter or longer as time goes by? Do they get more or less intense? I feel like I'm just staring into chaos looking for a handy index. It's hard to accept the unknown. Lexapro 5mg for 3 months (quit November 2019) Lexapro 10mg for 14 months (July 2018 - Sept 2019) Zoloft 50mg for 5 months (March 2018 - July 2018) Celexa for 10 years (2008- March 2018) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Onmyway Posted March 2, 2020 Moderator Share Posted March 2, 2020 13 hours ago, SurvivingOnAnime said: Do we sometimes cause or trigger our waves? I wonder if my devouring all the info on this site for the past few days has made me a bit aggravated. (Not the forum's fault of course.) Also, is there any rhyme or reason to the length and strength of these waves? Do they get shorter or longer as time goes by? Do they get more or less intense? I feel like I'm just staring into chaos looking for a handy index. It's hard to accept the unknown. Hi SOA, The answer to all of your questions is it depends on the person - i.e. it's hard to point out a pattern that holds across individuals. The answer to 'can we cause waves' is yes - if you drink alcohol or take some drugs that can throw your system into a new dysequilbrium. Reading the forums? Not sure. You want to be as gentle and compassionate as possible to yourself during this time. Try the non-drug techniques. Some will work. But the biggest key here is acceptance - acceptance that this will suck for a while and there is little that can be done. And acceptance of the uncertainty of it all and the coming difficulty over the next months and maybe years. As they say, get comfortable, this is going to be a wild ride. And you will need all the resources that you can get. We're here for support. 2 "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurvivingOnAnime Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 @Onmyway Thank you for your answer. Lexapro 5mg for 3 months (quit November 2019) Lexapro 10mg for 14 months (July 2018 - Sept 2019) Zoloft 50mg for 5 months (March 2018 - July 2018) Celexa for 10 years (2008- March 2018) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lzieb Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 Can your menstrual cycle make your symptoms worse? Also what does it mean that people with immediate adverse reactions recovery is more linear? Thanks LZie, Zoloft 25 mg, 3/31/20-4/6/20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lzieb Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 I have a question about windows. Are they completely asymptomatic or just not as bad as your normal. Thx 1 LZie, Zoloft 25 mg, 3/31/20-4/6/20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nena59 Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 I have not had a completely symptom free window in a while. While in a window I normally have to "fight back" symptoms sometimes. I normally have a window every evening and occasionally they last all day. This Covid is really making things harder. I hope this helps with your question Lzieb. On 1/27/2020 at 8:54 PM, Ali75 said: Oct 2016. 20 years fluoxetine (20 mg) and bupropion (400 mg). Ceased fluoxetine without taper and bupropion after 4 wk taper. Initial extreme fatigue resolved into moderate fatigue and depression with occasional brain zaps and tingling skin. Oct 2017. Anhedonia, 90% of my day. Occasional anxiety. Milder brain zaps. In past two weeks, 3 window days and 11 wave days. May 2019. Anhedonia, infrequent anxiety, mild brain zaps. Sleeping 6 hours nightly after lifetime of 8 hours. Typical daily pattern is wave until late afternoon, window until bedtime. Occasional full day windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persistente Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 On 5/3/2020 at 5:34 PM, Lzieb said: I have a question about windows. Are they completely asymptomatic or just not as bad as your normal. Thx i think it differs from person to person. i would say that my windows are asymptomatic. waves are pure hell. and there are days in between. today is one of them. 3/2012 - sertralin 50 mg, no major side effects 1/2014 - ct sertralin 50 mg (tappered 3 weeks as doctor ordered) 7/2014 - back to sertalin 50 mg, no issues 4/2016 - ct sertralin 50 mg (tappered 3 weeks, my decision) 12/2016 - back to sertalin, major side effects from the first pill and the begginning of hell 2/2017 - mirtazepine 15 mg added for insomnia 6/2017 - stopped sertralin (2 months tapper) 9/2017 - stopped mirtazepine (3 weeks taper) waves and windows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lithiumnomore Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 I've definitely noticed this pattern. For me, it's not as black and white as waves and windows though. The feelings of clarity and being alive overlay patterns of waves. Its kind of like you're layering different modulations and the sum is how I'm feeling. When the different modulations line up the right way, I'm at my best. When they line up the wrong way, I'm at my worse. I've also noticed a pattern to how the waves pass. I'll start feeling better in the evening, then find my sleep to be deeper and more restful. I wake up feeling clear and have a "what was that?" feeling in thinking about the wave. The fact that they pass is reassuring that this is withdrawal and not relapse. Current Meds/Taper: Lithium 450 mg - only drug. Tapered from 450 mg on 2/4, dropping 50 mg every 2 weeks to 300. Started having extreme insomnia after 2 weeks at 300 mg. Updosed to 350 mg on 3/24 and then back to 450 mg on 4/7. Will resume taper at 5-10%/month or slower when the time comes. Current supplements: Magnesium - Dr Best Chelated 100 mg PM, probiotic. Recent meds/tapers: Seroquel: 9/7/2020 - 25 mg up to 100 mg then tapered off rapidly to 0 mg (took for 2 weeks total) Lithium: 9/4/2020 - 900 mg, 11/20 - 750 mg, 12/15 - 600 mg, 12/21 - 750 mg, 2/11/21 - 600 mg, 3/15/21 - 450 mg Lamictal: 9/7/2020 - 25 mg, 9/17 - 50 mg; 10/1 - 100 mg; 10/13 - 200 mg, 10/23 - 300 mg, 11/6 - 400 mg, 1/15/21 - 200 mg, 4/15/21 - 100 mg, 5/13/21 - 75 mg, 5/27/21 - 62.5 mg, 6/8/21 - 50 mg, 6/22/21 - 37.5 mg, 6/28/21 - 12.5 mg, 7/7/21 - 0 mg Past meds: 2001-2010 - lithium and/or other mood stabilizers, ssris and benzos; 2011 - 2018 - lithium and adderall; 2018 - tapered lithium 900 mg to 0 mg in about 6 months, stopped Nov 2018 (no identified withdrawal symptoms), started fluoxetine @ 20 mg spring 2018 through May 2019, then tapered in two steps: May - 10 mg, Nov - 0 mg; Dec 2019 - ssri withdrawal starts, hell begins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lithiumnomore Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 On 2/24/2019 at 11:51 PM, Nevertoolate said: I think I'm starting to see a bit of a pattern with the windows and waves and wonder if anyone else can relate? When I'm in waves I don't dream. I sleep like the dead but I've started to connect the periods of dreaming with the onset of a window. My thought is the dreaming phase is when the brain is rewiring itself or sorting things out?? Does this sound feasible? Saw this in relation to my post above. The connection between sleep and withdrawal symptoms is fascinating. Current Meds/Taper: Lithium 450 mg - only drug. Tapered from 450 mg on 2/4, dropping 50 mg every 2 weeks to 300. Started having extreme insomnia after 2 weeks at 300 mg. Updosed to 350 mg on 3/24 and then back to 450 mg on 4/7. Will resume taper at 5-10%/month or slower when the time comes. Current supplements: Magnesium - Dr Best Chelated 100 mg PM, probiotic. Recent meds/tapers: Seroquel: 9/7/2020 - 25 mg up to 100 mg then tapered off rapidly to 0 mg (took for 2 weeks total) Lithium: 9/4/2020 - 900 mg, 11/20 - 750 mg, 12/15 - 600 mg, 12/21 - 750 mg, 2/11/21 - 600 mg, 3/15/21 - 450 mg Lamictal: 9/7/2020 - 25 mg, 9/17 - 50 mg; 10/1 - 100 mg; 10/13 - 200 mg, 10/23 - 300 mg, 11/6 - 400 mg, 1/15/21 - 200 mg, 4/15/21 - 100 mg, 5/13/21 - 75 mg, 5/27/21 - 62.5 mg, 6/8/21 - 50 mg, 6/22/21 - 37.5 mg, 6/28/21 - 12.5 mg, 7/7/21 - 0 mg Past meds: 2001-2010 - lithium and/or other mood stabilizers, ssris and benzos; 2011 - 2018 - lithium and adderall; 2018 - tapered lithium 900 mg to 0 mg in about 6 months, stopped Nov 2018 (no identified withdrawal symptoms), started fluoxetine @ 20 mg spring 2018 through May 2019, then tapered in two steps: May - 10 mg, Nov - 0 mg; Dec 2019 - ssri withdrawal starts, hell begins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Onmyway Posted May 20, 2020 Moderator Share Posted May 20, 2020 On 4/27/2020 at 12:32 PM, Lzieb said: Can your menstrual cycle make your symptoms worse? Also what does it mean that people with immediate adverse reactions recovery is more linear? Thanks Yes, menstrual cycles make waves much much worse for me. "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lithiumnomore Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 Crossposting most of this from my intro thread. My waves initially were characterized by intense anxiety, panic and catastrophizing. During the waves lately, the anxiety has been much more mild but feel more depressed. That can be scary as I still worry about just slipping back into depression. It's hard to remember that I don't need the drugs after depending on them for so long. Even on the down/wave days I have little windows of clarity. It feels like I've been away for a long time and am stepping into a life and experience that's unfamiliar. I try to enjoy that. It's all I can do and should do. Current Meds/Taper: Lithium 450 mg - only drug. Tapered from 450 mg on 2/4, dropping 50 mg every 2 weeks to 300. Started having extreme insomnia after 2 weeks at 300 mg. Updosed to 350 mg on 3/24 and then back to 450 mg on 4/7. Will resume taper at 5-10%/month or slower when the time comes. Current supplements: Magnesium - Dr Best Chelated 100 mg PM, probiotic. Recent meds/tapers: Seroquel: 9/7/2020 - 25 mg up to 100 mg then tapered off rapidly to 0 mg (took for 2 weeks total) Lithium: 9/4/2020 - 900 mg, 11/20 - 750 mg, 12/15 - 600 mg, 12/21 - 750 mg, 2/11/21 - 600 mg, 3/15/21 - 450 mg Lamictal: 9/7/2020 - 25 mg, 9/17 - 50 mg; 10/1 - 100 mg; 10/13 - 200 mg, 10/23 - 300 mg, 11/6 - 400 mg, 1/15/21 - 200 mg, 4/15/21 - 100 mg, 5/13/21 - 75 mg, 5/27/21 - 62.5 mg, 6/8/21 - 50 mg, 6/22/21 - 37.5 mg, 6/28/21 - 12.5 mg, 7/7/21 - 0 mg Past meds: 2001-2010 - lithium and/or other mood stabilizers, ssris and benzos; 2011 - 2018 - lithium and adderall; 2018 - tapered lithium 900 mg to 0 mg in about 6 months, stopped Nov 2018 (no identified withdrawal symptoms), started fluoxetine @ 20 mg spring 2018 through May 2019, then tapered in two steps: May - 10 mg, Nov - 0 mg; Dec 2019 - ssri withdrawal starts, hell begins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentor Amira Posted May 23, 2020 Mentor Share Posted May 23, 2020 Can anyone with experience answer me please is this pattern normal? i never got any window during the past 20 month ( been off all drugs CT 20 months ago) The healing pattern goes like this, symptoms get very intense for few weeks, then i get a relief when symptoms are less intense. They are constant, still here and never left, but less intense but i never had a window when all of the symptoms just vanish completely and hey i have a normal brain some symptoms ( Akathisia, Fear, Anxiety left for good and when they come again they stay for a short time with less intensity and they go away again. Those left me 3 months ago symptoms i am struggling with: cog fog Bad short term memory bad concentration Despersonalization, i always feel like i am disconnected from the world, cannot interact/connect with anyone Emotions numbness, cant feel love, joe, positivity, no good feelings in my stomach and head whatsoever Not able to think clearly or make decisions, cannot focus while reading or make sense of what i am reading I dont know if this is normal because i keep reading here that people experience windows when all the bad symptoms leave and they feel normal with a healthy brain and forget about WD. I never experience this any answer will be appreciated Thanks Amira Cymbalta 30 mg- 60 mg 06/2016- 10/2018 ( Cold Turkey) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persistente Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 9 hours ago, Amira123 said: Can anyone with experience answer me please is this pattern normal? i never got any window during the past 20 month ( been off all drugs CT 20 months ago) The healing pattern goes like this, symptoms get very intense for few weeks, then i get a relief when symptoms are less intense. They are constant, still here and never left, but less intense but i never had a window when all of the symptoms just vanish completely and hey i have a normal brain some symptoms ( Akathisia, Fear, Anxiety left for good and when they come again they stay for a short time with less intensity and they go away again. Those left me 3 months ago symptoms i am struggling with: cog fog Bad short term memory bad concentration Despersonalization, i always feel like i am disconnected from the world, cannot interact/connect with anyone Emotions numbness, cant feel love, joe, positivity, no good feelings in my stomach and head whatsoever Not able to think clearly or make decisions, cannot focus while reading or make sense of what i am reading I dont know if this is normal because i keep reading here that people experience windows when all the bad symptoms leave and they feel normal with a healthy brain and forget about WD. I never experience this any answer will be appreciated Thanks Amira From 3 years readings, I would say that your pattern of healing in not uncommon. In my experience although I perceive my waves as I am being normal, it is actually not that I am completly without symptoms. It is more that I am without those the worst ones soI can finally feel as normal as I can imagine. And after those horrible waves (mine are really hard to survive without the family support), it all feels so much better that even if it is probably not normal, I call it that way. 3/2012 - sertralin 50 mg, no major side effects 1/2014 - ct sertralin 50 mg (tappered 3 weeks as doctor ordered) 7/2014 - back to sertalin 50 mg, no issues 4/2016 - ct sertralin 50 mg (tappered 3 weeks, my decision) 12/2016 - back to sertalin, major side effects from the first pill and the begginning of hell 2/2017 - mirtazepine 15 mg added for insomnia 6/2017 - stopped sertralin (2 months tapper) 9/2017 - stopped mirtazepine (3 weeks taper) waves and windows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentor Amira Posted May 24, 2020 Mentor Share Posted May 24, 2020 @persistente Thank you for your reply, i wish you complete recovery 🌸 Stay well Cymbalta 30 mg- 60 mg 06/2016- 10/2018 ( Cold Turkey) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiferButOK Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 I am new here, and have just been mulling the concept of Windows and Waves. It seems to me to be a helpful explanation not just about ADWD but about LIFE’s affects on our human neurological systems. Our bodies get hit with changes and have to establish new normals, over and over again. Like starting a new job or a new fitness regimen or getting an injury or having a baby...or changing neuro meds. The flesh and nervous system have to accommodate every change and keep going. Meanwhile the seasons are ticking through time and space. No wonder we don’t feel the same every day! But I NEVER imagined that I should/could gently expect and accept unpleasant feelings, with the faith that they were harmless and would pass. Instead I freaked out, thinking that discomfort should be medically addressed, because it meant I was ill. That was an incorrect thought. The body is just doing its best to adapt to things. What is it informing me about?? I need to calm down and listen. I also need to remember that I like playing in waves at the beach, even when they sometimes hit me in the face or knock me down. The ocean is sensational, and I’ve got a nervous system so I can enjoy playing in it. 1 1990 - 1996 Buspar for anx/depression. (Previous tries with some others). 1996 BEGAN EFFEXOR for anxiety, depression, painful bladder spasms. 2006 breast cancer treatment year, including chemo. I’m still here 🌾🌞 2007, 2008, 2016 3x tried synthroid, Tirosint for low thyroid. Leg cramps +, foul mood. 2008-2011 Catapres 0.2mg clonidine patch for BP + anx added to Effexor; had to discontinue for possibility it was harming my memory (at work). 2013 Got retired early due to memory failures and mood control breakdown. Dec2018 tried Mirtazapine 15mg to boost mood; it zonked me + my muscles! Apr2020 tried Abilify 2mg with my 150 Effexor. BAD cardiac effect in 11days. May 2020 direct switch from 150mg Effexor XR to 50mg Pristiq. AWASH in 4d. 23May2020 BACK again to just 150mg Effexor XR brand (now on it for 24yrs). Other: Krill oil, vit D drops, infreq 100%B vit. Hibiscus or ginger/turmeric, or dandelion root teas seem helpful. Believe in Source. Starting MgCl2 in aloe w some glycerin as skin lotion. Minimal coffee. Trying to put play before work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted June 2, 2020 Administrator Share Posted June 2, 2020 Good observations, LiferButOK. You might want to read up on the theory of allostasis and allostatic load. 1 This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentor Amira Posted June 2, 2020 Mentor Share Posted June 2, 2020 @LiferButOK good point of view going through this ordeal i now believe that assigning a label or mental illness to normal human emotions/experiences/trials/ challenges is the most stupid thing i have ever seen in my life we are human beings who respond differently to life situations. Grieving a divorce/your child dying/breakup/losing your job, being anxious about something , childhood abuse does not mean you are mentally ill or your brain or is not working properly. It is a normal response which should not be supressed by prescribing poisons to numb our emotions. We are supposed to feel every single emotion, sadness, grief, joy , if we are not allowed to feel those emotions then we will not be able to learn and grow from different life situations/challenges 1 Cymbalta 30 mg- 60 mg 06/2016- 10/2018 ( Cold Turkey) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiferButOK Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 Thanks Alto, I had never heard the term “allostatic load” before. Very interesting and I think real. I do believe that having a calm and caring presence when young leads to a healthy nervous system. It’s like having a pattern from which to build one’s own structure. So important to be able to return to calm. 1990 - 1996 Buspar for anx/depression. (Previous tries with some others). 1996 BEGAN EFFEXOR for anxiety, depression, painful bladder spasms. 2006 breast cancer treatment year, including chemo. I’m still here 🌾🌞 2007, 2008, 2016 3x tried synthroid, Tirosint for low thyroid. Leg cramps +, foul mood. 2008-2011 Catapres 0.2mg clonidine patch for BP + anx added to Effexor; had to discontinue for possibility it was harming my memory (at work). 2013 Got retired early due to memory failures and mood control breakdown. Dec2018 tried Mirtazapine 15mg to boost mood; it zonked me + my muscles! Apr2020 tried Abilify 2mg with my 150 Effexor. BAD cardiac effect in 11days. May 2020 direct switch from 150mg Effexor XR to 50mg Pristiq. AWASH in 4d. 23May2020 BACK again to just 150mg Effexor XR brand (now on it for 24yrs). Other: Krill oil, vit D drops, infreq 100%B vit. Hibiscus or ginger/turmeric, or dandelion root teas seem helpful. Believe in Source. Starting MgCl2 in aloe w some glycerin as skin lotion. Minimal coffee. Trying to put play before work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiferButOK Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 Amira123, Thank-you for your response. Yes, we are humans with a range of emotions, built-in. I think most of us here were stuck on “sad” which led us to try antidepressant meds so we could carry on. In my case, I finally realized that the Rules I was following HAD to be Wrong, if they made my life not worth living. The Rules were imposed upon me - they were not mine! It made a big difference for me to mentally break free from inflicted rules. But my body and nerves are still torqued-up and they need to be unwound. Doing things that I personally enjoy has been healing. 1990 - 1996 Buspar for anx/depression. (Previous tries with some others). 1996 BEGAN EFFEXOR for anxiety, depression, painful bladder spasms. 2006 breast cancer treatment year, including chemo. I’m still here 🌾🌞 2007, 2008, 2016 3x tried synthroid, Tirosint for low thyroid. Leg cramps +, foul mood. 2008-2011 Catapres 0.2mg clonidine patch for BP + anx added to Effexor; had to discontinue for possibility it was harming my memory (at work). 2013 Got retired early due to memory failures and mood control breakdown. Dec2018 tried Mirtazapine 15mg to boost mood; it zonked me + my muscles! Apr2020 tried Abilify 2mg with my 150 Effexor. BAD cardiac effect in 11days. May 2020 direct switch from 150mg Effexor XR to 50mg Pristiq. AWASH in 4d. 23May2020 BACK again to just 150mg Effexor XR brand (now on it for 24yrs). Other: Krill oil, vit D drops, infreq 100%B vit. Hibiscus or ginger/turmeric, or dandelion root teas seem helpful. Believe in Source. Starting MgCl2 in aloe w some glycerin as skin lotion. Minimal coffee. Trying to put play before work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiferButOK Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 Wow, I’m so glad to have been introduced to the term “allostatic load.” This article may already be referenced somewhere in this site: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4251716/ 1 1990 - 1996 Buspar for anx/depression. (Previous tries with some others). 1996 BEGAN EFFEXOR for anxiety, depression, painful bladder spasms. 2006 breast cancer treatment year, including chemo. I’m still here 🌾🌞 2007, 2008, 2016 3x tried synthroid, Tirosint for low thyroid. Leg cramps +, foul mood. 2008-2011 Catapres 0.2mg clonidine patch for BP + anx added to Effexor; had to discontinue for possibility it was harming my memory (at work). 2013 Got retired early due to memory failures and mood control breakdown. Dec2018 tried Mirtazapine 15mg to boost mood; it zonked me + my muscles! Apr2020 tried Abilify 2mg with my 150 Effexor. BAD cardiac effect in 11days. May 2020 direct switch from 150mg Effexor XR to 50mg Pristiq. AWASH in 4d. 23May2020 BACK again to just 150mg Effexor XR brand (now on it for 24yrs). Other: Krill oil, vit D drops, infreq 100%B vit. Hibiscus or ginger/turmeric, or dandelion root teas seem helpful. Believe in Source. Starting MgCl2 in aloe w some glycerin as skin lotion. Minimal coffee. Trying to put play before work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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