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Healing

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

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EmergingFromTheVoid

Is there any correlation between healing faster or slower, and a rapid window/wave pattern or a slow window/wave pattern?

 

If I had to guess, I would think that a slow pattern is better as it would be less stressful on the CNS. On the other hand, a fast window/wave pattern could indicate that there are more rapid repair (wave) and stablizing (window) actions going on. 

 

Thoughts?

 

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gardenlady

I've been slow-tapering for 2 years and have never had a window, so I don't think there is any correlation between speed of taper and window/wave pattern. I have the same symptoms as those who rapid-tapered or went CT.  

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Altostrata

You've had an unusually bad time, gardenlady.

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Pens
On 12/13/2019 at 7:02 AM, Nevertoolate said:

It will take time but just take reach day as it comes. Listen to your body be kind to yourself and just know all of this will pass. 

Thankyou, I read this post. I’m 63 as well and am feeling low. It encouraged me! Happy for your success.

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Tom37

Just wondering if anyone here has started feeling a lot better and had a long period at baseline to only then fall backwards and go back into a nasty cycle of bad waves?

 

And can you get bad waves while close to recovery or does having these bad waves mean I’ve still got a long way to go?

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sunnysideup69
48 minutes ago, Tom37 said:

Just wondering if anyone here has started feeling a lot better and had a long period at baseline to only then fall backwards and go back into a nasty cycle of bad waves?

 

And can you get bad waves while close to recovery or does having these bad waves mean I’ve still got a long way to go?

I read here and on Bloom in Wellness that you can have your worst wave before total recovery.....anything is possible :)

 

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Katy398

I read that somewhere too. So fingers crossed Tom 🧡

I have a window/ wave pattern that I’m not sure others have experienced. I’m interested in opinions.

Everyday I experience waves and windows. It will either be a wave heavy day with a bit of a window in the evening when I’m with my family or vice versa when a wave comes mid afternoon. I cry most days at the moment when in a wave. I try to hold it together but just don’t seem to manage it. 

Is this a withdrawal pattern or more a relapse pattern.

Take care everyone breathe in the energy and hope those windows offer and breathe through the waves they will pass.

Kx

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Nena59

I know over the past 3 years my baseline has improved but I am so tired of feeling depressed, lack of desire to do anything, and at times anxious. I usually have a window in the evening, but more than half of my days I am in a wave and have to PUSH myself to do things. I can't figure out any pattern. My concern too is that if this is supposed to gradually get better, I am in for a much longer recovery than I thought. It can be really discouraging. I'm so glad to have this forum, some hope!

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Ali75

I’m in a similar situation. Almost 2.5 years off and feeling like I’m in a wave most of the time, albeit with a baseline that is generally improving. It’s very discouraging, but I have had windows that lasted a few weeks at a time, which gives me hope that I can fully recover. I had hoped to feel better by this point, but after being on a drug for over 20 years, I guess recovery takes some time. 

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getofflex

Perhaps the anxiety and depression, etc is more than just a sign of PAWS.  Perhaps there are underlying issues we have that need to be dealt with.  Someone told me that in another thread, and I think they were right.  For me, I returned to AA after being gone for years because I was tempted to go back to drinking.  I've discovered that I indeed have some deeper emotional and spiritual issues that need to be addressed.  I am feeling SO much less anxious and depressed since returning to AA.  One huge thing AA and my sponsor do is get me out of myself.  She is having me do service and help other alcoholics.  This helps me focus less on me and my problems and suffering, and more on someone else.  This breaks the pain cycle for me, and it gives me joy and a sense of purpose, even when I'm not feeling good.   I have a very strong sponsor who is taking me through the 12 steps, and this is helping immensely! Therapy can also be a big help for anxiety and depression.  It could be that the underlying emotional issues make the physical withdrawal worse, or vice versa.  Our minds and bodies affect each other that way.  

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Nena59
7 hours ago, getofflex said:

Perhaps the anxiety and depression, etc is more than just a sign of PAWS.  Perhaps there are underlying issues we have that need to be dealt with.  Someone told me that in another thread, and I think they were right.  For me, I returned to AA after being gone for years because I was tempted to go back to drinking.  I've discovered that I indeed have some deeper emotional and spiritual issues that need to be addressed.  I am feeling SO much less anxious and depressed since returning to AA.  One huge thing AA and my sponsor do is get me out of myself.  She is having me do service and help other alcoholics.  This helps me focus less on me and my problems and suffering, and more on someone else.  This breaks the pain cycle for me, and it gives me joy and a sense of purpose, even when I'm not feeling good.   I have a very strong sponsor who is taking me through the 12 steps, and this is helping immensely! Therapy can also be a big help for anxiety and depression.  It could be that the underlying emotional issues make the physical withdrawal worse, or vice versa.  Our minds and bodies affect each other that way.  

I have been wondering that for awhile. I have tried several counselors and they want me to go on drugs or try that new brain zappy thingy. I'm waiting for a call back to a new counselor now. I went on Prozac 20 years ago for pms. I wasn't suffering from anxiety or anhedonia...both a part of my life after quitting. I get discouraged because I do have windows, so I know what it can be.

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Nena59
On 1/27/2020 at 8:54 PM, Ali75 said:

I’m in a similar situation. Almost 2.5 years off and feeling like I’m in a wave most of the time, albeit with a baseline that is generally improving. It’s very discouraging, but I have had windows that lasted a few weeks at a time, which gives me hope that I can fully recover. I had hoped to feel better by this point, but after being on a drug for over 20 years, I guess recovery takes some time. 

That's great that you have such long windows! I will just keep plugging along!

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thecowisback

like you nena i was on prozac for 20 years. i tapered too quickly and had 2years with very few windows. i went back on a low dose of prozac a year ago but things are still rough. 

i hope you start to see some light at the end of your tunnel soon xxx

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getofflex
2 hours ago, Nena59 said:

I have been wondering that for awhile. I have tried several counselors and they want me to go on drugs or try that new brain zappy thingy. I'm waiting for a call back to a new counselor now. I went on Prozac 20 years ago for pms. I wasn't suffering from anxiety or anhedonia...both a part of my life after quitting. I get discouraged because I do have windows, so I know what it can be.

 I'm just speaking for myself personally here.  I hope to never ever have to go back on psych meds, and will do whatever I can to avoid them, if possible.  It is just too damn hard and painful to wean off of them.   At least for me, I feel the meds were covering up issues, and not truly solving any problem.  Jennifer 

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emerik

i CT celexa , 20mg was 1 year on it. didnt know better and i forgot tbh.
3 months later it hitted me just in time for new year. !

reinstated 20mg of celexa under 2 weeks because though symptoms coming back.
 20mg on 10 of january its been a month now
i had so many weird waves, windows

in my waves i cant really sleep, sometime 0 hours sometime 2, sometime 4.
in my last windows i have been totally normal for 10 days and sleep fine and did everything, though i was cured, classic.
but it came crashing again. have you guys had those intense windows? ive feel better than last week but still.

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Miko789

Im 3 years off paxil.

 

Now Im 2 almost 2 years off risp.

 

I have btw back and forth wave. I think my system is destabilised. 

Or i suppose its burst of anger caused by wd o med. 

My plan is 6 months to move ahead until August stressful events were root.

 

 

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SurvivingOnAnime

Do we sometimes cause or trigger our waves?  I wonder if my devouring all the info on this site for the past few days has made me a bit aggravated.  (Not the forum's fault of course.)  Also, is there any rhyme or reason to the length and strength of these waves?  Do they get shorter or longer as time goes by?  Do they get more or less intense?  I feel like I'm just staring into chaos looking for a handy index.  It's hard to accept the unknown.

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Onmyway
13 hours ago, SurvivingOnAnime said:

Do we sometimes cause or trigger our waves?  I wonder if my devouring all the info on this site for the past few days has made me a bit aggravated.  (Not the forum's fault of course.)  Also, is there any rhyme or reason to the length and strength of these waves?  Do they get shorter or longer as time goes by?  Do they get more or less intense?  I feel like I'm just staring into chaos looking for a handy index.  It's hard to accept the unknown.

Hi SOA,

The answer to all of your questions is it depends on the person - i.e. it's hard to point out a pattern that holds across individuals. 

 

The answer to 'can we cause waves' is yes - if you drink alcohol or take some drugs that can throw your system into a new dysequilbrium. Reading the forums? Not sure. You want to be as gentle and compassionate as possible to yourself during this time. Try the non-drug techniques.  Some will work. 

 

But the biggest key here is acceptance - acceptance that this will suck for a while and there is little that can be done. And acceptance of the uncertainty of it all and the coming difficulty over the next months and maybe years. As they say, get comfortable, this is going to be a wild ride. And you will need all the resources that you can get. We're here for support.

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SurvivingOnAnime

@Onmyway  Thank you for your answer. :)

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Lzieb

Can your menstrual cycle make your symptoms worse? Also what does it mean that people with immediate adverse reactions recovery is more linear? Thanks 

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Lzieb

I have a question about windows. Are they completely asymptomatic or just not as bad as your normal. Thx

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Nena59

I have not had a completely symptom free window in a while. While in a window I normally have to "fight back" symptoms sometimes. I normally have a window every evening and occasionally they last all day. This Covid is really making things harder. I hope this helps with your question Lzieb.

On 1/27/2020 at 8:54 PM, Ali75 said:

 

 

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persistente
On 5/3/2020 at 5:34 PM, Lzieb said:

I have a question about windows. Are they completely asymptomatic or just not as bad as your normal. Thx

i think it differs from person to person. i would say that my windows are asymptomatic. waves are pure hell. and there are days in between. today is one of them.

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lithiumnomore

I've definitely noticed this pattern. For me, it's not as black and white as waves and windows though. The feelings of clarity and being alive overlay patterns of waves. Its kind of like you're layering different modulations and the sum is how I'm feeling. When the different modulations line up the right way, I'm at my best. When they line up the wrong way, I'm at my worse.

 

I've also noticed a pattern to how the waves pass. I'll start feeling better in the evening, then find my sleep to be deeper and more restful. I wake up feeling clear and have a "what was that?" feeling in thinking about the wave. The fact that they pass is reassuring that this is withdrawal and not relapse.

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lithiumnomore
On 2/24/2019 at 11:51 PM, Nevertoolate said:

I think I'm starting to see a bit of a pattern with the windows and waves and wonder if anyone else can relate? 

When I'm in waves I don't dream. I sleep like the dead but I've started to connect the periods of dreaming with the onset of a window. 

My thought is the dreaming phase is when the brain is rewiring itself or sorting things out?? 

Does this sound feasible? 

 

Saw this in relation to my post above. The connection between sleep and withdrawal symptoms is fascinating.

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Onmyway
On 4/27/2020 at 12:32 PM, Lzieb said:

Can your menstrual cycle make your symptoms worse? Also what does it mean that people with immediate adverse reactions recovery is more linear? Thanks 

Yes, menstrual cycles make waves much much worse for me. 

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lithiumnomore

Crossposting most of this from my intro thread.

 

My waves initially were characterized by intense anxiety, panic and catastrophizing. During the waves lately, the anxiety has been much more mild but feel more depressed. That can be scary as I still worry about just slipping back into depression. It's hard to remember that I don't need the drugs after depending on them for so long. 

 

Even on the down/wave days I have little windows of clarity. It feels like I've been away for a long time and am stepping into a life and experience that's unfamiliar. I try to enjoy that. It's all I can do and should do.

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Amira123

Can anyone with experience answer me please

 

is this pattern normal?

 

i never got any window during the past 20 month ( been off all drugs CT 20 months ago)

The healing pattern goes like this, symptoms get  very intense for few weeks, then i get a relief when symptoms are less intense. They are constant, still here and never left, but less intense

 

but i never had a window when all of the symptoms just vanish completely and hey i have a normal brain 

 

some symptoms ( Akathisia, Fear, Anxiety left for good and when they come again they stay for a short time with less intensity and they go away again. Those left me 3 months ago

 

symptoms i am struggling with:

cog fog

Bad short term memory

bad concentration

Despersonalization, i always feel like i am disconnected from the world, cannot interact/connect with anyone

Emotions numbness, cant feel love, joe, positivity, no good feelings in my stomach and head whatsoever

Not able to think clearly or make decisions, cannot focus while reading or make sense of what i am reading

 

 

I dont know if this is normal because i keep reading here that people experience windows when all the bad symptoms leave and they feel normal with a healthy brain and forget about WD. I never experience this

 

any answer will be appreciated

 

Thanks 

 

 

Amira

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persistente
9 hours ago, Amira123 said:

Can anyone with experience answer me please

 

is this pattern normal?

 

i never got any window during the past 20 month ( been off all drugs CT 20 months ago)

The healing pattern goes like this, symptoms get  very intense for few weeks, then i get a relief when symptoms are less intense. They are constant, still here and never left, but less intense

 

but i never had a window when all of the symptoms just vanish completely and hey i have a normal brain 

 

some symptoms ( Akathisia, Fear, Anxiety left for good and when they come again they stay for a short time with less intensity and they go away again. Those left me 3 months ago

 

symptoms i am struggling with:

cog fog

Bad short term memory

bad concentration

Despersonalization, i always feel like i am disconnected from the world, cannot interact/connect with anyone

Emotions numbness, cant feel love, joe, positivity, no good feelings in my stomach and head whatsoever

Not able to think clearly or make decisions, cannot focus while reading or make sense of what i am reading

 

 

I dont know if this is normal because i keep reading here that people experience windows when all the bad symptoms leave and they feel normal with a healthy brain and forget about WD. I never experience this

 

any answer will be appreciated

 

Thanks 

 

 

Amira

From 3 years readings, I would say that your pattern of healing in not uncommon. 

 

In my experience although I perceive my waves as I am being normal, it is actually not that I am completly without symptoms. It is more that I am without those the worst ones soI can finally feel as normal as I can imagine. And after those horrible waves (mine are really hard to survive without the family support), it all feels so much better that even if it is probably not normal, I call it that way.

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Amira123

@persistente Thank you for your reply, i wish you complete recovery 🌸 Stay well

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LiferButOK

I am new here, and have just been mulling the concept of Windows and Waves.  It seems to me to be a helpful explanation not just about ADWD but about LIFE’s affects on our human neurological systems.  Our bodies get hit with changes and have to establish new normals, over and over again.  Like starting a new job or a new fitness regimen or getting an injury or having a baby...or changing neuro meds.  The flesh and nervous system have to accommodate every change and keep going.  Meanwhile the seasons are ticking through time and space.  No wonder we don’t feel the same every day!  But I NEVER imagined that I should/could gently expect and accept unpleasant feelings, with the faith that they were harmless and would pass.  Instead I freaked out, thinking that discomfort should be medically addressed, because it meant I was ill.  That was an incorrect thought.  The body is just doing its best to adapt to things.  What is it informing me about??  I need to calm down and listen.  I also need to remember that I like playing in waves at the beach, even when they sometimes hit me in the face or knock me down.  The ocean is sensational, and I’ve got a nervous system so I can enjoy playing in it.  

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Altostrata

Good observations, LiferButOK. You might want to read up on the theory of allostasis and allostatic load.

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Amira123

@LiferButOK good point of view

 

 

going through this ordeal i now believe that assigning a label or mental illness to normal human emotions/experiences/trials/ challenges is the most stupid thing i have ever seen in my life

 

we are human beings who respond differently to life situations. Grieving a divorce/your child dying/breakup/losing your job, being anxious about something , childhood abuse does not mean you are mentally ill or your brain or is not working properly. It is a normal response which should not be supressed by prescribing poisons to numb our emotions. We are supposed to feel every single emotion, sadness, grief, joy , if we are not allowed to feel those emotions then we will not be able to learn and grow from different life situations/challenges

 

 

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