ChanceLucky: Antidepressant withdrawal, social anxiety, & pessimism

[ChanceLucky]

Hi everyone,

 

I’m really glad to have found this website. I want to describe my experiences and get your feedback. I’ve been on an SSRI (currently Celexa 40 mg/day) for about 15 years and Wellbutrin (200 mg/day) for about 12 years for anxiety. About 8 years ago, I developed an OTC stimulant addiction – first it started with caffeine but has progressed to energy drinks. I used to have coffee and get a nice buzz from it but gradually the buzz became weaker and my crashes became worse – I think I gradually became “caffeine intolerant,” meaning I would get little benefit from it and would just get drowsy and disoriented. I eventually switched to energy drinks because they give me some buzz. I know they have caffeine but for reasons that defy logic, I still crave caffeine. The other stuff in the energy drinks (ginseng, taurine, etc) gives me some buzz, although I get awful crashes that take about 36 hours to recover from. For about 8 years, I’ve been stuck having OTC stimulants despite knowing that I’d have a much better life without them. I have arthritis in a few joints (knees, right hip) and I think the energy drinks make it worse – when I’ve gone periods without the drinks, my joints feel better. To give you an idea of where I am in life, from 18 to 25 I was very productive and finished a doctorate in my late 20s. I have a good job now but I’m kind of a lazy bum – I don’t work hard and I've gotten mild warnings about needing to do better at work. I spend most of my life either over-stimulated on energy drinks or in a state of withdrawal from stopping them. It’s not like I feel terribly depressed or anxious without the energy drinks – I just feel that life is boring.

 

Is it possible that the antidepressants screwed up my neurotransmitters and that’s why I have such strong stimulant cravings? I just don’t understand why I crave something I know is bad for me. I’m thinking I should taper off the Celexa but I feel like it may take a very long time to actually feel better and I wish I had something that would help me now so that I would stop using energy drinks. I can do upper body exercises and walking but most other exercising irritates my knees.

 

There are definitely psychological issues I need to work on too, and I am in counseling with a licensed psychologist. I have tremendous anxiety about existential issues – am I living a worthwhile life? Is there any meaning to life? I’ve also been dating a woman for about 6 months that I have a lot of fun with but I spend a lot of time worrying about whether she’s the right long-term match for me – in part because I don’t really know what I want. It’s not just her – I’ve become an intense worrier with every woman I’ve ever dated.

 

Thanks for your help!

[Altostrata]

Welcome, ChanceLucky.

 

Many people find SSRIs to be eventually demotivating, if not zombifying. They tend to dull emotions related to emotional bonding. Celexa seems often to cause sleepiness.

 

Wellbutrin often causes side effects of nervousness, jitters, and sleeplessness -- not a good treatment for someone prone to anxiety.

 

I suppose one or the other may cause a craving for caffeine-like stimulants. Why were you put on Wellbutrin?

 

This is a site for tapering off medications. Are you planning to go off these drugs?

[bruno2016]

i was sort of addicted to stimulants while on drugs but mainly because I was fatigued a lot. Many people are addicted to stimulants--mainly coffee. This is very common. Whats the longest you have sustained from stimulants? Have you ever thought of doing a slow taper and trying to live drug free? Perhaps you can do some life style changes and see a holistic doc to help you withdrawal from drugs?

 

I still crave caffeine. My doc told me to use the amino acid DLPA instead of caffeine which sort of gives the same effect, however I dont like messing with neurotransmitter levels and stuff so if i use amino acids, it is a complex or just use whey protein.

[ChanceLucky]

Thanks, guys. Yes, I am planning to taper off the meds. It will be extremely hard but I'm thinking I should go a period without energy drinks or coffee first. Then I'll decrease the Celexa rather than doing both right away.

The longest I abstained from stimulants? About 5 years ago, I had a period of 3 weeks. About 3 months ago, I also went 10 days. Those were both less stressful times in my life than it is right now but I'm still going to give it my best shot. I think I'm going to resume doing mindfulness meditation. I've done that on and off for a while.

I was initially put on Wellbutrin because my doc thought it might counter the sexual side effects I had from the SSRI.

On a positive note, I just got feedback on my performance at work today and it was much more positive than I was expecting.

[Altostrata]

When you abstain from caffeine, do you tend to get sleepy?

 

You might keep notes of your symptom patterns, to see if they're due to Celexa.

 

Did the Wellbutrin help with the SSRI-induced sexual dysfunction?

 

You'll need to taper off the caffeine, to avoid headaches, etc., perhaps over a couple of weeks.

[dalsaan]

I gave up coffee (which I loved and gave me a pick me up when I hadn't slept). I had to taper off coffee to avoid bad headaches. You might think about that and also ask what you get out of them, what habits you have around them and how you will respond to these when you reduce/stop

[bruno2016]

Thanks, guys. Yes, I am planning to taper off the meds. It will be extremely hard but I'm thinking I should go a period without energy drinks or coffee first. Then I'll decrease the Celexa rather than doing both right away.

The longest I abstained from stimulants? About 5 years ago, I had a period of 3 weeks. About 3 months ago, I also went 10 days. Those were both less stressful times in my life than it is right now but I'm still going to give it my best shot. I think I'm going to resume doing mindfulness meditation. I've done that on and off for a while.

I was initially put on Wellbutrin because my doc thought it might counter the sexual side effects I had from the SSRI.

On a positive note, I just got feedback on my performance at work today and it was much more positive than I was expecting.

 

if you practice mindfullness daily, then it will help not only with withdrawal from drugs (including caffeine), but your life in general. I like jon kabat zinn. Look into his work and youtube videos. You just need to keep it up daily for at least 8 weeks (according to jon).

[ChanceLucky]

When you abstain from caffeine, do you tend to get sleepy?

 

You might keep notes of your symptom patterns, to see if they're due to Celexa.

 

Did the Wellbutrin help with the SSRI-induced sexual dysfunction?

 

You'll need to taper off the caffeine, to avoid headaches, etc., perhaps over a couple of weeks.

 

Good questions. Honestly, I think the sexual performance issues were just due to anxiety, not the SSRI. Initially the Wellbutrin did help with everything (sex, concentration, mood) but I don't think it's doing anything helpful anymore. I'm on a much higher Celexa than Wellbutrin dose. I think I'm going to taper off the Celexa first.

 

Usually I have energy drinks when I start to worry, but I am going to try my best to have more productive, healthier responses to my worrying.

I actually stopped the energy drinks cold turkey today and don't feel that bad - a little tired but nothing major. I think it helps that I haven't been having them everyday (maybe 80% of the time). So my brain might be used to not always having them.

[Altostrata]

Sounds like a good idea. You might go down a bit on Celexa, then reduce Wellbutrin if your sleep suffers -- sleep disruption is a common withdrawal symptom and Wellbutrin can exacerbate it.

 

Make sure your nervous system is stable from quitting caffeine first. Wait a week or two before attempting the taper, so you don't mistake caffeine withdrawal for Celexa withdrawal.

 

See these topics http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/300-important-topics-in-the-tapering-forum/ , particularly the ones about 10% tapering Tips for Tapering Celexa.

[ChanceLucky]

Well I put off stopping energy drinks for a long time - actually my addiction got worse and I was having 1 to 3 cans a day (on about 80% of the days). The good news is that I've now gone 7 days without an energy drink! The bad news is that I feel very tired all day and get disoriented from any significant physical exercise. I'm scared that I did permanent damage to my brain.

 

Let me give a little more info. First, note that I am in counseling and trying to get better. Basically, as I mentioned earlier, I think I became caffeine intolerant a few years ago - I'd just get drowsy and tired after even a few mg of caffeine. But it still numbed my anxiety. So I kept having it. About 8 months ago, I discovered that energy drinks didn't make me as drowsy - I think it was the counterbalancing effects of drowsiness from caffeine and energy from all the other ingredients. After about 4 months, however, I started getting drowsy and disoriented from energy drinks too. So then I started taking a little extra Wellbutrin with my energy drinks (just an extra 50 mg) and that gave me more energy. I know this was not healthy or wise. I'm approaching the end of the period where caffeine withdrawal usually ends - most sites say it can last up to a week - and still not feeling back to normal. I'm worried that I have a rare combination of caffeine sensitivity or intolerance and consumption, and it screwed up my brain. In the past, I always felt back to normal after 2 or at most 3 days of abstinence (although I then went back to the energy drinks). Note that I did actually feel back to normal Wednesday of last week - I even had a great workout. But then Thursday I did some light exercising for about 3 minutes and started feeling dizzy, and I haven't felt back to normal since.

[Altostrata]

Where are you on your Celexa and Wellbutrin dosages, CL?

 

How's your sleep?

 

What's your diet like? Do you eat a lot of sugar?

[ChanceLucky]

Where are you on your Celexa and Wellbutrin dosages, CL?

 

How's your sleep?

 

What's your diet like? Do you eat a lot of sugar?

 

Twice during those 7 days I took an extra half pill of Wellbutrin to help me get through work but otherwise I've been on the normal doses. My appetite has been good. If anything, I eat a bit too much. Sleep? I've been sleeping a lot. About 12 hours a day. I wouldn't say I eat a lot of sugar but probably more than what's recommended.

One other thing to point out is that last Wednesday, I thought I was completely back to normal. So I then began my next "drug reduction" stretch: I've taken a 25 mg tablet of Benadryl to help me sleep every night for about 15 years but I've read bad things about long-term use of it. So I took only half the pill Wed night and half Thurs night. I thought that might be contributing to my not feeling well. So Fri night I went back to a full pill. I'll work on stopping one drug at a time now.

My ultimate goal is to stop energy drinks, Benadryl, Celexa, and Wellbutrin - in that order.

[ChanceLucky]

Today is the second straight day where I woke up early in the morning, felt like crap, and worked and slept back and forth for the rest of the morning and early afternoon. Like yesterday, today I finished all that working/sleeping alternating at around 3PM and actually feel much better again. (I had a productive late afternoon/early evening yesterday.) I'm hoping this means my brain is just very tired, not badly damaged long-term.

[ChanceLucky]

Good news: I somehow got a surge in energy last night at around 8 and I feel fairly good again this morning. I hope I'm getting back to normal for good now.

I think I rushed things when I tried to taper the Benadryl last week. How long should I wait until I begin to taper it? I take only 25 mg/day. I'm thinking I should make sure my functioning has stabilized without energy drinks for at least a few weeks. I was planning to stop the Benadryl before working on stopping the Celexa and Wellbutrin because I think the latter 2 will be much harder.

[Altostrata]

Did you start having these energy problems after taking Celexa?

 

I suggest you try very regular hours, go to bed at the same time every night and get up at the same time every morning. Irregular hours can cause your sleep-wake cycle to shift.

 

Benedryl can have a hangover causing you to feel listless in the morning. Were you able to sleep on a half-dose of Benedryl?

[ChanceLucky]

Yeah, I slept fine on half a Benadryl.

I tended to have the energy drinks more for the mental stimulation and to reduce worry. I wasn't specifically tired.

[Altostrata]

Don't take any more than half a Benedryl, then. In a few days, take a quarter rather than a half, a few days later, go off completely.

 

This is to prevent any rebound insomnia.

 

Instead of Benedryl, you might want to try melatonin to help regularize your sleep patterns, see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/189-melatonin-for-sleep/ Don't overdo the dosage, it only takes a fraction of a milligram for many people.

[ChanceLucky]

I think you're right. If I'd been having Benadryl withdrawal, it probably would have been harder for me to fall asleep. It wouldn't make sense that I slept fine and was actually more tired all day. This probably was entirely energy drink withdrawal.

[Altostrata]

Did your tiredness begin after you started taking Celexa?

[ChanceLucky]

No, I wouldn't say that. I was using the energy drinks to try to improve mood and decrease worry, not really because I was tired. The tiredness I was writing about earlier was just recently when I stopped having the energy drinks and was experiencing withdrawal. I think I'm gradually getting back to normal though. Today is day 9 without the drinks.

[ChanceLucky]

Hi everyone,

 

After a gradual taper (lasting about 8 months) off of Celexa, I think I’ve developed antidepressant withdrawal syndrome but I’m not sure. Basically, the only issue I have is substantial social anxiety – the one problem I sought treatment for in the first place. I was on an SSRI (most recently Celexa) for at least 15 years and I’ve been completely off for about 3 months. In this 3 month period, my social anxiety has gotten much worse but I don’t have the other symptoms that people with antidepressant withdrawal syndrome mention. I know about mindfulness, relaxation breathing, progressive muscle relaxation and other techniques. They help a little but not much and I was functioning much better a few months ago. It’s possible I just have to try harder and spend more time doing them but I get discouraged because they don’t seem to help a lot.  I’m only 36 but I have widespread arthritis and I can’t do much exercising. I feel like I don’t have the one best anti-anxiety weapon (ability to exercise hard). I’m really at a loss about what to do.

 

Yesterday, my social anxiety was really bad and I was ready to get back on Celexa. Fortunately, my doctor was away and it at least gave me more time to think about things. My hope (or fantasy) was that I could go back on and my life would return to where it was 3 or 6 months ago, but this time I could develop a strong social support network, and then someday get off the antidepressant. I stopped Celexa because I was worried there could someday be bad long-term effects. I still had some social anxiety and wasn’t thriving but was doing better. The possibility that I have antidepressant withdrawal syndrome and that this might be permanent if I don’t get back on Celexa is terrifying though. So is the possibility of the Celexa doing long-term damage though.

 

I’ve also been addicted to caffeine for at least 10 years (including occasional energy drinks), which I know is bad for my social anxiety. I get bad withdrawal symptoms if I stop the caffeine and I just don’t seem to have the willpower to quit it. I think that if I could get off of it, I might not even need or want to go back on the Celexa. I’m overwhelmed and I feel like such an idiot for being unable to quit caffeine. Maybe I actually can do that and support/encouragement from people here would help. Going back on Celexa would really just be a way of avoiding the hard work of quitting caffeine and regularly doing anxiety management work. I’ve thought about at least switching to tea instead of coffee because that is supposed to be less anxiety provoking due to the theanine and might make it easier to someday quit caffeine completely.

 

Going back to a low dose Celexa was just a thought. I’ll listen to any suggestions about managing my social anxiety. I feel really overwhelmed and discouraged.

[ChanceLucky]

A little more info.: I think I do have more irritability and I definitely have been overreating during this 3 month period too. I'm really torn between reinstating at a low dose or trying to do the hard work to manage my anxiety better. I assume that if I do go back on Celexa and it numbs my anxiety, then I'll be even less likely to quit or reduce caffeine/energy drinks or to do anxiety management exercises. In many ways I've spent my whole life trying to escape from negative emotions, and in the best case scenario, this anxiety could spur me to a level of growth I've never had before. But I'm a teacher and I really want to be functioning better a few weeks from now when the next semester starts. I'm really torn and unsure what to do. I'd like to spend at least a little time trying to work on the anxiety better before going back but I don't know that I can do it. I may be wasting time even trying. Or I might put in all the work and still have a lot of anxiety, which wouldl stink.. My thoughts are all over the place.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, ChanceL.
 
What exactly do you mean by social anxiety?
 
How are you sleeping?
 
Yes, caffeine can exacerbate anxiety problems. See

Caffeine in coffee or tea: Tolerance issues

[Petunia]

Hi CL,

I found your original introduction topic from 2012 and joined it to this one, this keeps your history in one place. Did you stop taking Wellbutrin?

[ChanceLucky]

Oh, thanks for combining them. No, I'm still on Wellbutrin. My plan was to get off of the Celexa first.
That's a good question, Altostrata. Basically, in a wide range of social situations, I feel tense, and occasionally begin to sweat and blush. The anxiety occurs mainly if I feel like I'm being evaluated. It happens if I meet a possible date or if I'm talking about myself (like if people ask how my summer has been) or if I'm talking to authority figures. Normally I can talk with strangers and immediate family members with ease. I've always had social anxiety but it's been much worse these last few months.

I've also been really overreating. I just never feel full, or if I do, it doesn't last long.

[Altostrata]

Have you ever tried non-drug therapies for the social anxiety? It sounds like Cognitive Behavior Therapy might help. Or meditation.
 
See Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms  and other topics in the Symptoms and self-care forum.
 
How is your sleep?
 
Antidepressant withdrawal can exacerbate anxiety. You might want to try a very low dose of Celexa, such as 2mg, to see if that reduces the irritability, etc. You'd stabilize on that for a while, then reduce by tiny amounts.
 
See What is withdrawal syndrome?
 
The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms
 
Titrating Celexa: Tips for tapering off Celexa (citalopram)

[ChanceLucky]

Holy cow - I think I messed up and shocked my nervous system and need help. Basically, something I hadn't mentioned is that I've been taking Benadryl every night for about 15 years and begun tapering it too. I was down from 10 to 6.25 ml liquid every night but then about 3 or 4 days ago, decided I had made too many recent changes (stopping Benadryl right after stopping Celexa). So I went back to my normal 10 ml Benadryl and was feeling a little better. Part of why I was feeling better I think was just optimism that things would get better when I got back from vacation and restarted Celexa, though. So I got back home today and went on 10 mg (5 ml liquid actually) Celexa. I took the first 5 ml Celexa dose at around 8PM. Just now (around 1:30AM), I seem to have had my first ever panic attack. I was going to the bathroom in the middle of the night and became overwhelmed with anxiety. I started feeling nauseated and sweating and thought I would throw up. I think I then fainted because next thing I knew I was lying on the floor in a strange position for a few seconds. Then I got up. Now I've stopped sweating and feel much better though I'm scared. I don't know what to do. I guess I have completely shocked my nervous system now. I'll call my doctor first thing in the morning. It's a traditional MD who as far as I know strongly believes in SSRIs, though. What's your advice?

[ChanceLucky]

Note that I was feeling a little strange or "off" within a couple hours of taking the Celexa (before going to bed) last night. I'm thinking I don't even want to be back on Celexa and would rather go back to how things were 24 hours ago! I'm more motivated than before to do meditation, CBT, and whatever else I can. I don't know if the 5ml dose last night shocked my nervous system and I need to go on a very low dose like 1 ml for a little while now though.

 

On edit: Alto, I just noticed the resources you pointed me to. I appreciate that and will take a look at them once I settle down.

[Altostrata]

Sorry to hear 10mg Celexa was too much for you. You may note I suggested 2mg.

[ChanceLucky]

Do you have any tips about getting the liquid? I talked with a physician's assistant today. My plan at the time was to stay off the Celexa. However, I asked her, if I do want to go back, if she'd be willing to prescribe the liquid and explained that I think I'm too sensitive to go on a 10 mg dose. She said she'd have to check with the MDs and get back to me. If I do ask for this, I think she may say to take the 10 mg pills and cut them in half though. I could then explain that I only want a low dose like 2 mg but I don't know how that will go. I suspect she is coming from the mainstream medicine "SSRIs are great" view and won't understand my concerns. What about cutting the 10 mg pills in quarters if she insists on 10 mg pills?

 

Toward the middle of the day, I actually felt a lot better. I'm not sure if that's because the Celexa dose last night actually helped me (despite the initial panic attack) or if it's because I convinced myself I'd meditate and stay off Celexa, which is what really I want to do and I think I was feeling excited and optimistic about that. I wish I knew which of these it was. About an hour or two ago, I started feeling strange/off again, though. I'm not sure if that means the 10 mg Celexa dose wore off or if I'm just overly interpreting every brief change in my mood and alertness. I really just want to feel good again. I'd prefer that to be off the Celexa but if I have to, I'd go on a low dose.

 

Do you know any way to find and get an appointment with psychiatrists or general physicians who are skeptical of SSRIs and would understand my thinking? I'd like to be able to share everything I'm going through with them.

[Altostrata]

You probably felt better because the 10mg Celexa dose was wearing off and you had a much lower amount in your system.

 

See How do you talk to your doctor about tapering and withdrawal...

 

Rather than trying to get the doctor to understand, you'd be better off clearly stating what you want and saying you think you'd be better off on a low dose of Celexa. Very, very few doctors know anything about tapering or withdrawal syndrome.

 

Also see Recommended doctors, therapists, or clinics

 

Please read the links I've given you. Tips for tapering off Celexa (citalopram) explains how to make your own liquid from tablets.

[ChanceLucky]

You probably felt better because the 10mg Celexa dose was wearing off and you had a much lower amount in your system.

 

See How do you talk to your doctor about tapering and withdrawal...

 

Rather than trying to get the doctor to understand, you'd be better off clearly stating what you want and saying you think you'd be better off on a low dose of Celexa. Very, very few doctors know anything about tapering or withdrawal syndrome.

 

Also see Recommended doctors, therapists, or clinics

Thanks so much. I think you're right about my feeling better because the 10 mg dose of Celexa was beginning to get out of my system.  I guess that darn 36 hour Celexa half-life means it’s going to take a long time it to get all out of my system and I may continue to feel a bit off for a while. I’ve begun looking through those links and will keep at it. 

 

 

Please read the links I've given you. Tips for tapering off Celexa (citalopram) explains how to make your own liquid from tablets.

 

Thanks so much. I think you're right about my feeling better because the 10 mg dose of Celexa was beginning to get out of my system.  I guess that darn 36 hour Celexa half-life means it’s going to take a long time to get all out of my system and I may continue to feel a bit off for a while. I see there's an MD in my city on your list of recommended doctors. I don't know how long it would take to get an appointment but I'll at least give it a try.

[Altostrata]

If I were you, I'd still reinstate 2mg as soon as possible.

[ChanceLucky]

I talked with my doctor and am doing 3 mg a day starting tonight. I've been doing a lot of meditation and progressive muscle relaxation and am feeling better. I feel much more at peace with my anxiety. I've also reduced the caffeine to about 1 cup a day. I had been having 2 to 4 cups a day. At times I get more tired than I'm used to but I assume that's just temporary due to adjusting to the caffeine reduction. If it's not temporary, it's not the end of the world anyway.

 

In your recommended doctors section, are you looking for primary care physicians or just psychiatrists? I explained my symptoms to my doctor. He felt it was relapse, not prolonged withdrawal. (Readers here are probably not surprised he thought that.) However, he listened and was respectful of my thoughts and he was willing to do the low dose prescription. If you want to add him to your list, his info. is below.

Dr. Tad D. Scheri, MD  

Family Practice Physician

1017 Perry Hwy #2, Pittsburgh, PA 15237

Phone:(412) 364-4402

[gemini]

Wow. Uh have you tried cbt or other modes of therapy rather than drugs , toxic psych meds, for anxiety and social issues? I mean, my mindset is unless I'm hearing voices I won't take toxic drugs anymore. And even then I'm highly resistant.

[gemini]

Do you understand social anxiety is a human problem and has a solution? Irreversible liver damage caused by psych drugs has no solution