PenguinTeacup: Please Help

[AliG]

Penguin .      I know you're exhausted , and can't go on , but if you stick with the "  program ,"   ( as advised ) ,   you will be in a better place to deal with the stresses in your life , including your wedding .

 

As Fresh said , switching  could be " tricky " at this point .  There are no guarantees that this would work . Whether it's a SSRI or SNRI , is a bit of a "moot point " , as none of them work effectively anyway , and there's not a great deal of difference between them .

 

Try and keep notes  on your symptoms . See how you go taking it earlier , and let us know how you are going .

 

I know it's hard , but hang in there.

Ali

[ChessieCat]

Hi PT,

 

I agree with Fresh about the pressure you are under.  When I was planning my wedding I hadn't begun taking ADs and I was 23 and well physically and mentally.  It is stressful at the best of times without the added complications of trying to stabilise after a fast taper and reinstating.

[Altostrata]

PT, I know this is the last thing you may want to hear, but it may make sense right now to reschedule your wedding, for health reasons.

 

The stress of wedding planning is adding tremendously to your problems right now.

[ChessieCat]

"it may make sense right now to reschedule your wedding, for health reasons."

 

I understand that you don't want to let your fiance down, but it's your wedding day too, and I feel sure that you would like to enjoy it.

[PenguinTeacup]

hi, I went to my GP last tuesday as I was suicidal and desperate for sleep. She advised me to up the dose of venlafaxine as I had always felt sedated on it and she convinced me it would help. It just made things worse, I feel like my heart is constantly racing, I feel agitated and can't relax and I lie awake for hours with severe discomfort in my chest unable to sleep for more than an hour or so a night. It is intolerable. Sometimes my heart rate is 106bpm when lieing down but sometimes it is not fast but it feels like i am full of adrenaline. I don't know whether this means my body can no longer tolerate the drug? I don't have any of the withdrawal symptoms that I had when i stopped taking the drug. Reading posts on this forum just makes me feel there is no hope, even if the sleep came back, it seems it would not be permanent, people here suffer for years and i don't know how you go on. I have been ill with chronic fatigue for 4 years and I don't have the strength to fight this. My partner is taking me to A&E because i've told him I want to die but i'm scared that they willl just give me more drugs and then i will be addicted to more drugs or it will make things worse. This is like a nightmare, it doesn't seem real

[Fresh]

What dose have you been taking since last Tuesday Penguin?

 

If you feel worse , it doesn't agree with you.

Our ability to metabolize these drugs changes over time - what we used to tolerate may not

work 12 months or a few years later.

[PenguinTeacup]

Thanks for replying. I have been taking 6.2mg. Do you think I should take less or will that bring on more withdrawal? I just don't know what to do

[Fresh]

Only you know if you feel worse overall since you updosed. It's been 6 days.

 

We see people stabilize on tiny doses compared to what most doctors consider "therapeutic"

precisely because we become so sensitized.

 

Has there been any improvement at all since updosing?

 

" It just made things worse, I feel like my heart is constantly racing, I feel agitated and can't relax and I lie awake for hours with severe discomfort in my chest unable to sleep for more than an hour or so a night."

 

Was it less bad on 4,5mg? If so , you could go back to that dose.

[PenguinTeacup]

I think it has been worse but it was also extremely bad on 4.5mg. I'm just so desperate for sleep the longer it goes on the more traumatic it becomes. There doesn't seem to be anything anyone can do and that's terrifying

[AliG]

Hi Penguin . I'm sorry for what you are going through . I know it's tough .

 

It sounds as if you are working yourself into a state of panic, which could be exacerbating some of your symptoms. Just know that , you will get through this and you can survive without any sleep, for a period of time .  It's not easy , but if you stay calm , it will be much easier to deal with . Anxiety is raising your cortisol , making it harder for you to get the rest you need. 

I know , as I have gone as many as 5 nights a week , over a long period of time , with no sleep .

 

Have you tried any of the sleep meditations ?  They have proven helpful  to many here.  Have a look at post 30 , by Shep . There are many helpful videos listed.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6122-guided-meditations-calming-videos-sleep-hypnosis/

 

Have a look . They might help . I'm not sure about your dose. I will leave that for someone else to advise. Are you keeping notes on your symptoms ? Only you can know if they're getting better or worse.

Ali

[PenguinTeacup]

Thank you Ali, I don't know how you have coped without sleep for 5 nights a week. Yes I keep a note of my symptoms in a spreadsheet.

 

I have spent the day in a&e having ECG and then speaking to a psychiatric nurse who has made an emergency referral to a psychiatrist. The nurse did keep going on about anxiety but she at least acknowledged the withdrawal

[AliG]

P.      How did the E.C/G. go ?  

The thing is , there is nothing of value that the psychiatrist , can do for you , at this stage .  Sometimes, it is a case of " riding it out " , as it can often be better , in the long run , to just do nothing .  I know that goes against every instinct to just , " FIX THE PROBLEM  " , but this is not something that can be solved instantly , as much as you or  I would like it to be .

 

It takes time , patience and acceptance.  If you can stop and breathe, for a second or two , it will help .

 

What have you decided , about your wedding ?   Is this adding to the panic ?

[PenguinTeacup]

The ECG was normal, as usual (I've had several)

 

I just don't know how to ride it out, it's intolerable. How can I live knowing I will barely sleep? How can I live knowing I'll never be able to be happy? That I'll never be able to have children? That I'll be housebound and a burden?

 

I have told partner the wedding needs to be cancelled but the nurse kept trying to say it would be ok and not to cancel. Nothing has been done about it anyway as it is a bank holiday

[AliG]

P.   This is " withdrawal " speaking . You will most likely sleep again .You will probably be happy again  & maybe have children ,and not be housebound or a burden. Yes, It's hard , but not intolerable.

 

I would look to your own heart , rather than a nurse ,  regarding your wedding .  How are you feeling about it ?

 

Unfortunately , these drugs often bring out our worst fears , and temporarily " derail " us , so that we doubt that we can get back to our previous lives , goals and dreams . This is an illusion .  You will get there.  Maybe, have a read of these stories.  It might help .

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1226-recovery-success-stories-from-around-the-web/

 

Ali

[PenguinTeacup]

Thank you for trying to help. I'm afraid that I didn't get very far on the recovery stories thread as it just seemed to be a lot of people saying they recovered after years of suffering which terrifies me. I cannot go on like this for years, I can barely face the thought of another day.

 

There is no way I can get married like this and I have no choice but to cancel. I know it will be awful having to tell everyone, they won't understand. I know I'm causing my partner so much pain, he would do anything to help me.

 

I keep thinking I'm going to wake up and this will be a bad dream.

[SquirrellyGirl]

Hi Penguin Teacup, 

 

I just read through your thread and feel so very badly for your suffering.  I am curious what you are doing for self-care throughout your day.  Are you able to go out and take walks?  I know that vigorous exercise is not recommended because it can trigger symptoms, but walking shouldn't be a problem.  We know that your heart is healthy through the testing, so walking shouldn't be a problem.  A bit of mild exercise might be transformative about now. 

 

How else are you spending your time?  Others have referred to the symptoms and self-care forum; which techniques have you tried to employ  to soothe yourself?  Our thoughts can cause more suffering, so it is important to not spend time reading horror stories, stressing about the negatives and adding fuel to your fear that this will never end.  Distraction is my go-to when the mind is going full-bore with the fears, whether it be uplifting music, comedies on the TV, a feel-good movie, anything that can take you out of your current stressful experience.  

 

There may be an element of fighting the symptoms going on emotionally.  When your heart is pounding, it is likely triggering fearful thoughts, but what if you were to just sit and notice it, and take deep meditative breathes?  Be curious about it, like "gee, there it is again - I wonder what set it off this time?"  instead of "oh no, there it is again, will this ever stop?!!"  So much of our distress is because we are fighting the fear, which makes it worse, creates secondary fear :-)  Many on SA have come to peace with their withdrawal and find themselves moving through the waves more quickly for having done so.  

 

I know all this is easier said than done :-)  The alternative isn't working, so why not investigate threads on Acceptance?  This thread is a great place to start (thanks, Petunia!)

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/10964-the-dr-claire-weekes-method-of-recovering-from-a-sensitized-nervous-system/?hl=acceptance

 

I am sending you calming virtual hugs!

SG

[PenguinTeacup]

Thank you SG. I mostly watch tv as it is all I have energy for, but I get bored with it frequently. I try ignoring or accepting the heart racing feeling while I'm trying to sleep but it just gets more and more painful in my chest til I'm forced to move.

 

I have noticed that my heart rate is at it's lowest before I take my drugs in the evening (low 70s) but then after I take them my heart goes up to 100-106. Surely this suggests the effexor is actively aggravating my heart?

[SquirrellyGirl]

Yes, I'd say that is an adverse reaction.  Hopefully a more experienced mod will chime in here.  Is that reaction true for both your doses since you are splitting AM/PM?  Did you move your PM dose to 5 PM?  I can understand not being able to distract from the racing heart if it is causing pain.  This might be a case for bridging to Prozac, though I have no experience with this so don't feel comfortable advising.

 

Would you say that most of your distress is caused by the waking due to the pain from the heart racing?  If your heart didn't wake you up, do you think you would otherwise be able to sleep?  Or are there other symptoms in play as well?

 

SG

[PenguinTeacup]

I haven't checked in the morning but my heart always feels very uncomfortable in the morning upon waking which I put down to the whole cortisol awakening thing. I never used to wake up til gone 9am but now I mostly fall asleep around 5-6am and wake an hour later feeling full of panic.

 

I moved my dose forward by an hour (both am and pm) so I take at 9am and 7pm. I didn't want to move it forward too much too fast. Although daylight savings yesterday mean it's technically moved forward again by an hr.

 

If my heart didn't wake me I would be able to sleep fine. I used to sleep 9 hrs. Now I get to the verge of sleep and then it goes nuts and feels as if it's speeding up and pounding until it hurts. I am anxious now to go to bed because of the discomfort (which I know makes it worse) but on the odd occasion I have had a goodish night the next night I feel much more positive but it still happens regardless of mood.

 

Thank you to everyone for your replies by the way. It is appreciated so much

[Altostrata]

Did the racing heart start when you recently increased the venlafaxine? This is not a desirable result. If I were you, I'd go back down again.

 

Your nervous system has been destabilized by withdrawal and is reacting differently to venlafaxine now.

 

Many people find it overstimulating. Taking more venlafaxine is not going to help you sleep.

 

What is your daily symptom pattern relative to when you take your drugs? Please keep notes on paper.

[PenguinTeacup]

The racing heart first started after I made reductions while I was tapering, it would just last a few nights. Then after I stopped effexor completely it got really bad so that's why I reinstated which made it stop for two weeks then it came back and hasn't gone away. It has seemed to get worse after I tried increasing the dose. This is why I am so confused, first a reduction in effexor caused it then taking more effexor seemingly made it worse.

 

If you think I should reduce, by how much would you recommend? I'm very worried about changing things but I'm also worried cos I can't continue like this

[PenguinTeacup]

I should mention that I took my heart rate before and after taking effexor this morning and there was no noticeable increase in heart rate (high 70s laying down). It still felt very uncomfortable like I was full of adrenaline or panic but this is how I feel most of the time now

[brassmonkey]

I noticed in the middle of my taper that there was a stretch of several months where it felt like my pulse was racing, but every time I checked it, it was in the normal range.  So I ended up concluding that it was just a nerve sensation caused by the WD and persuaded myself not to worry about it.  I think it is something similar to palpitations and is just a distressing sensation and nothing actually wrong.  Nothing was showing up on the doctors tests.

[PenguinTeacup]

Brassmonkey yes it is usually the case that when I have the heart problems it is not a case of it being fast, more that it is beating hard or irregular. I am not worried about my heart as I have had it checked lots. It does go up into the 100s sometimes though and I'm wondering if the drug is contributing to that.

[Altostrata]

That hard heartbeat is very typical of withdrawal syndrome.

 

You might hold on tapering for a while.

[PenguinTeacup]

Hi

 

One of the symptoms i've had on and off for a long time (for at least a couple of years) is diarrhea. It was just a couple of loose bowel movements a week, particularly first thing in the morning. I've told drs about it as I have been back and forth to drs over four years trying to find a reason for my chronic fatigue and the diarrhea was put down to part of that. It has got worse over the past year which may be due to withdrawal or vitamin D deficiency which I was recently diagnosed with.

 

Anyway i'd had a few days where it was better (probably due to eating much less in my distressed state) but this morning I had a watery bowel movement and noticed that there was a bit of something that might've been undigested food and what looked like a tiny bit of effexor tablet. Is it possible that these episodes of diarrhea are stopping my body from absorbing some or all of the effexor and that this is what it is stopping me from stabilising?

[nz11]

Hi Penguin

loose bowels ..gee tell me about it. Chronic fatigue ...gee tell me about it. You too ugh.

 

Interesting how the medical profession are unable to say the word iatrogenic issues.

 

i would think it difficult for tablets to go right through the acidic environment of the stomach and survive.

 penguins are known for  swallowing stuff are you sure it wasnt something else...?

[PenguinTeacup]

Nz17, I don't know for sure what it was. There was also something that looked like a seed that was possibly I digested food. I hope it's not caused by diarrhea in a way because I don't want to have to restrict my diet further (I already can't eat gluten).

 

Drs have never been able to find a cause for my chronic fatigue and I don't fit the criteria to be diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome so I was convinced it was the effexor that was causing the sleepiness, one of the reasons I was desperate to come off. Now I'd give anything to be able to sleep all the time again.

[PenguinTeacup]

Hi, after a few improved nights where I was able to get 4hrs sleep without sleeping pills, I had another bad night last night where I took a zopiclone at 2am because I could feel that I wasn't going to sleep and this gave me 3hrs but now I feel really down because i thought things were improving and I just feel back to square one. It's like the moment I get my hopes up they're dashed again it's torture. How can I live like this?

[Terry4949]

Hi , I can relate to your suffering I was on Effexor for over 10 years , then I had extreme anxiety for over a year untill I finally realised that it was actually the Effexor that was causing it , I had many stabilised years on Effexor but then it started working against me ,after a year of suffering I told my gp and he stopped me over a 2 week period . Then all hell let loose excactly what you are going through now , I had 3 months of hell , sweating ,severe anxiety , depression ,insomnia ,crying spells , suicidal tendency , I wanted to die , but it does get better. I am no where near where I want to be but the intensity will ease , unfortunately for me my doctor put me on 2 other medications that made things worse , and I have managed to work through the side effects of these meds , I know that the symptoms that you are experiencing are awfull but try to remember that it is not your normal brain doing all this it is the drug and it will get better , I was you only 12 months ago and I am slowly getting better , I am also in the uk , Bedfordshire , and I am slowly getting my gp to understand what is happening , there is so much information on here that you can read ,also I printed of a page. And took it to my gp so that they could understand what was happening so that they didn't make changes to make things worse . With the sleeping don't try and push it , I found the harder I tried the more I got frustrated , warm bath , blackout your room , and I mean no light , soft music not loud , and learn to relax , there are some great sites on YouTube for this that help with relaxing , as for your pounding heart it will get better , the more you learn to relax and accept it , I know it's hard trust me I do , but you will get better ,

[PenguinTeacup]

I just don't know how people go on for years with so much suffering. I have been ill for the past four years with fatigue/lightheadedness and my life has already been restricted because of this, not being able to work full time for the past 3 years and not being able to do the things I enjoy. I just can't face my world getting smaller and my options disappearing. All I can do is sit in front of the tv or the computer in constant discomfort from my pounding heart and feelings of panic. I don't know how to go on if it is going to be like this for years. I wish I was brave enough to kill myself

[Terry4949]

Hi penguinteacup , I think that you will find many people on here have felt like you have during there withdrawel , I know it's hell , I wish I could take it all away , as I know how you feel , but you are strong and you will beat this , try not to think that it will go on for years as this is the medication talking the withdrawel playing tricks on you , when in withdrawel days can seem like months and I know you feel hopeless ,but it will get better nothing last for ever , I have thought about ending it all many times , but I haven't as I believe that I will get better and that one day I will be able to help others in our position , this site is to help people who want to come off their meds , but sometimes remember people need to be on them and they do help people , when I was at my worst I went to my go and he gave me pregablin for my severe anxiety , I didn't want anymore medication , but sometimes you need to get stabilised before you can tackle the withdrawel process , I am currently withdrawing from mirtazapine another hard one to come off and I am having withdrawel problems . I have been off venalaxafine for 15 months now after almost going of c/t and I still get side effects but what I have learnt over the 15months is that no matter how hard or bad I feel I will never let these drugs beat me . take care

[AliG]

P.   This is why  I thought if you could read the " success stories" , that it might help you to see that this is just temporary .  Personally , I find them inspiring .  To know that this isn't permanent , is such a positive thing to me .  If I was paralysed, that would be permanent . This is not .  If it takes a little while , then so be it . I find it better to think this way , than to think of ending it .  That is a permanent solution to a temporary problem .

 

If you are seriously having these thoughts, please get help . We are not equipped to deal with that.  Is there a counsellor / psychologist  you can talk to ?

 

Take care of yourself . You will be fine if you can stay focused and positive . 

Ali

[PenguinTeacup]

I am going to see a psychiatrist this afternoon but I doubt he will help.

 

To think I will have years of barely sleeping ahead is terrifying

[AliG]

P.   I hope it goes well, but I wouldn't pin your hopes on this doctor . Is there anyone else , you can talk to ?  Sometimes , even a friend can help .    

 

Everyone is different , and reacts very individually to these drugs.  Try, if you can , not to project too far forward in such a way that scares you so much . A lot of times  it is the drug , talking . If you can take it day by day , it will be easier than letting your thoughts and fears , run away with you . 

 

There are some really great topics , in the Symptoms & Self- Care section , that you might find helpful .  Many here , are finding Claire Weekes -   anxiety,  helpful. 

Ali   

[nz11]

I am going to see a psychiatrist this afternoon but I doubt he will help.

 

To think I will have years of barely sleeping ahead is terrifying

Let us know how the consultation goes.

If he prescribes a benzo or low dose antipsychotic (for sleep) i would gently say 'thanks but no thanks.'

 

I kinda like to look on the bright side- no sleeping means more time to spend reading sa forums and being able to encourage others.

 

Don't give up hope. Things will get better in time.

 

nz11

4am