Moderator Emeritus KarenB Posted August 26, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted August 26, 2016 Hi Susanne, It might be that you did those last reductions too quickly. Jumping from 2.5mg to 0 is actually a big jump, as was 5mg to 2.5mg. See how you go, but you might consider popping back up to 2.5, stabilising, and then making smaller reductions. Other thoughts: B vitamins can be activating, as can too much exercise. 2010 Fluoxetine 20mg. 2011 Escitalopram 20mg. 2013 Tapered badly and destabilised CNS. Effexor 150mg. 2015 Begin using info at SurvivingAntidepressants. Cut 10% - bad w/d 2 months, held 1 month. Micro-tapering: four weekly 0.4% cuts, hold 4 weeks (struggling with symptoms). 8 month hold. 2017 Micro-tapering: four weekly 1% cuts, hold 4 weeks (symptoms almost non-existent). 2020 Still micro-tapering. Just over 2/3 of the way off effexor. Minimal symptoms, - and sleeping well. Supplements: Fish oil, vitamin C, iron, oat-straw tea, nettle tea. 2023 December - Now on 5 micro-beads Effexor. Minimal symptoms but much more time needed between drops. Symptoms begin to increase. 2024 April - Updosed to 6 microbeads - immediate increase in symptoms for 4 days. Decreased to 5 microbeads. 'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.' Dr Gabor Mate. Link to comment
Susanne Posted August 29, 2016 Author Share Posted August 29, 2016 Hey Karen,Thanks for the tip on the B vitamins. I don't know if there's a big difference, but I didn't take them from Saturday. I don't feel as depressed as last Friday.Physically I feel fine, so that is really the only reason why I made the big drops (considered by this forum...my general doctor doesn't seem to think so...but I don't really trust him with withdrawal anyway). I ran for 3 miles this morning, no tinnitus...just the cortisol spikes in the morning.And Pure O of course, but it's just one thought still. The other one is gone already.So it's all just weird. Taking care of yourself with diet, mindfulness training sessions for 8 weeks, exercise and a few supplements and still no big changes on the Pure O part... All my life: Occasional panic attacks. 2003: Burnout 2004: intrusion (OCD'ish) / anxiety. Therapies: acupuncture, Chinese herbs, hypnotherapy --> symptoms were manageable (did return once in a while), depression lifted.2007 - Relapse, started with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Therapist recommended Fevarin (fluvoxamine) 150 mg. Recovery after 3 months and remained stable. Mild side effects.2009 - Tapered fluvoxamine. No withdrawal symptoms. 2010 - Relapse, same Pure O thought and anxiety. Started taking 100 mg of fluvoxamine but after 9 weeks no change in symptoms. Did not have any effect on Pure O thought. Switched to Lexapro (escitalopram) 20 mg. Drug started working within 3 weeks. Mild side effects. Slowly over the years tapered to 5 mg.2015: Lots of personal issues and setbacks, occasional panic attack. 2016: April started skipping doses; 5mg escitalopram every other day (in hindsight a bad idea)May: Major relapse, anxiety and intrusion returned. Depression. Increased from 2,5 mg 15 mg in two weeks. Side effects: neuro-emotionsJune: Escitalopram has no effect on the frequency of the intrusion...after 4 weeks my general doctor advised me to do a fast taper to 5mg. Withdrawal effects (2/3 weeks): neuro-emotions, lack of focus, crying spells, fatigue, muscle twitches in legs, cortisol spikes just before waking up July: Stable on 5 mg. Depression and intrusion lifted during holiday (lots of sunshine, long walks and relaxing) August: Drop down to 2,5 mg. Withdrawal effects (tinnitus, headagues) are noticeable, but still mild in comparison to the big drop earlier.22th August: stopped escitalopram completely. Cortisol spikes just before waking up, still OCD (only temporary improvements), WD-depression and WD-neuro emotions.Update 6 dec: no medication, any withdrawal symptoms not noticable. Taking supplements for intrusive thoughts and overall well being: N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) omega 3 fish oils, zinc, vitamin d, magnesium l-threonate, ginko biloba Link to comment
Susanne Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share Posted August 30, 2016 I'm considering new treatment with psych meds.Maybe it's just the WD-neuro emotions, WD-depression and WD-pureO talking right now... All my life: Occasional panic attacks. 2003: Burnout 2004: intrusion (OCD'ish) / anxiety. Therapies: acupuncture, Chinese herbs, hypnotherapy --> symptoms were manageable (did return once in a while), depression lifted.2007 - Relapse, started with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Therapist recommended Fevarin (fluvoxamine) 150 mg. Recovery after 3 months and remained stable. Mild side effects.2009 - Tapered fluvoxamine. No withdrawal symptoms. 2010 - Relapse, same Pure O thought and anxiety. Started taking 100 mg of fluvoxamine but after 9 weeks no change in symptoms. Did not have any effect on Pure O thought. Switched to Lexapro (escitalopram) 20 mg. Drug started working within 3 weeks. Mild side effects. Slowly over the years tapered to 5 mg.2015: Lots of personal issues and setbacks, occasional panic attack. 2016: April started skipping doses; 5mg escitalopram every other day (in hindsight a bad idea)May: Major relapse, anxiety and intrusion returned. Depression. Increased from 2,5 mg 15 mg in two weeks. Side effects: neuro-emotionsJune: Escitalopram has no effect on the frequency of the intrusion...after 4 weeks my general doctor advised me to do a fast taper to 5mg. Withdrawal effects (2/3 weeks): neuro-emotions, lack of focus, crying spells, fatigue, muscle twitches in legs, cortisol spikes just before waking up July: Stable on 5 mg. Depression and intrusion lifted during holiday (lots of sunshine, long walks and relaxing) August: Drop down to 2,5 mg. Withdrawal effects (tinnitus, headagues) are noticeable, but still mild in comparison to the big drop earlier.22th August: stopped escitalopram completely. Cortisol spikes just before waking up, still OCD (only temporary improvements), WD-depression and WD-neuro emotions.Update 6 dec: no medication, any withdrawal symptoms not noticable. Taking supplements for intrusive thoughts and overall well being: N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) omega 3 fish oils, zinc, vitamin d, magnesium l-threonate, ginko biloba Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted August 30, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted August 30, 2016 Hi Susanne, It might be that you did those last reductions too quickly. Jumping from 2.5mg to 0 is actually a big jump, as was 5mg to 2.5mg. See how you go, but you might consider popping back up to 2.5, stabilising, and then making smaller reductions. Other thoughts: B vitamins can be activating, as can too much exercise. Hi Susanne, Karen mentioned the 2 big dose jumps you made. "I'm considering new treatment with psych meds." I assume that you are talking about different meds? If you symptoms are getting difficult to live with it may be better to reinstate Escitalopram rather than going on to a different drug. If you do decide to reinstate, making a small increase, even smaller than 2.5 may help with your symptoms. Have you read About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms? * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
Susanne Posted September 1, 2016 Author Share Posted September 1, 2016 Hi Susanne, It might be that you did those last reductions too quickly. Jumping from 2.5mg to 0 is actually a big jump, as was 5mg to 2.5mg. See how you go, but you might consider popping back up to 2.5, stabilising, and then making smaller reductions. Other thoughts: B vitamins can be activating, as can too much exercise. Hi Susanne, Karen mentioned the 2 big dose jumps you made. "I'm considering new treatment with psych meds." I assume that you are talking about different meds? If you symptoms are getting difficult to live with it may be better to reinstate Escitalopram rather than going on to a different drug. If you do decide to reinstate, making a small increase, even smaller than 2.5 may help with your symptoms. Have you read About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms? Hey Chessie, It's not that I'm having much physical issues. I'm sure that the depression is coming from withdrawal, for the most part. It's harder to cope with Pure O / repetitive thoughts. As regards to the Pure O, it doesn't matter on which dose I am. It doesn't improve, change or go away. I don't think reinstating will make this better. It might work for the low / dark moods, but since my mood isn't low all the time I just try to hold on and wait these out. So I might go on other meds to work on the symptoms of my Pure O... Having Pure O does keep me depressed to a considerable degree, but it's a different feeling than WD-depression. That one is going away. All my life: Occasional panic attacks. 2003: Burnout 2004: intrusion (OCD'ish) / anxiety. Therapies: acupuncture, Chinese herbs, hypnotherapy --> symptoms were manageable (did return once in a while), depression lifted.2007 - Relapse, started with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Therapist recommended Fevarin (fluvoxamine) 150 mg. Recovery after 3 months and remained stable. Mild side effects.2009 - Tapered fluvoxamine. No withdrawal symptoms. 2010 - Relapse, same Pure O thought and anxiety. Started taking 100 mg of fluvoxamine but after 9 weeks no change in symptoms. Did not have any effect on Pure O thought. Switched to Lexapro (escitalopram) 20 mg. Drug started working within 3 weeks. Mild side effects. Slowly over the years tapered to 5 mg.2015: Lots of personal issues and setbacks, occasional panic attack. 2016: April started skipping doses; 5mg escitalopram every other day (in hindsight a bad idea)May: Major relapse, anxiety and intrusion returned. Depression. Increased from 2,5 mg 15 mg in two weeks. Side effects: neuro-emotionsJune: Escitalopram has no effect on the frequency of the intrusion...after 4 weeks my general doctor advised me to do a fast taper to 5mg. Withdrawal effects (2/3 weeks): neuro-emotions, lack of focus, crying spells, fatigue, muscle twitches in legs, cortisol spikes just before waking up July: Stable on 5 mg. Depression and intrusion lifted during holiday (lots of sunshine, long walks and relaxing) August: Drop down to 2,5 mg. Withdrawal effects (tinnitus, headagues) are noticeable, but still mild in comparison to the big drop earlier.22th August: stopped escitalopram completely. Cortisol spikes just before waking up, still OCD (only temporary improvements), WD-depression and WD-neuro emotions.Update 6 dec: no medication, any withdrawal symptoms not noticable. Taking supplements for intrusive thoughts and overall well being: N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) omega 3 fish oils, zinc, vitamin d, magnesium l-threonate, ginko biloba Link to comment
Susanne Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 Hi everyone, not sure who's interested, but I've been medication free since the 22th of August.I've started Magnesium L-Threonate yesterday. I still have my 'regular' OCD thought, but it seems like there's been some progress as well. It's never really gone, always lurking in the background. My concentration is poor and it pops up more than a few times as an hour goes by. I try to ignore it as much as I can.I also started Kundalini Yoga, following the protocol by David Shannahoff-Khalsa ( from his book 'Sacred Therapies'). My psychologist is also a yoga teacher and follows KY classes herself, so helped me getting started with the exercises in the book. I have high hopes, but it feels so silly doing the exercises...I really hope they will start working!I don't know if there are still any WD symptoms. After stopping in August I had some new intrusions (which went away after a day or two) and racing thoughts. When I went to sleep I closed my eyes and weird images started to run around in my head. These things I never had during the use of escitalpram and in the years before I started it. So I tried not to overstimulate with coffee, sugar and internet browsing (looking for more info on my issues, which is very addictive for me!). I obviously needed more relaxation time.My general doctor thinks I should start sertraline to overcome the Pure O. She says it's safe to take these kinds of meds for the rest of my life. I was in her office and I was thinking: 1)Where does your information come from? and 2)what if they stop working?So I haven't picked up the prescription. All my life: Occasional panic attacks. 2003: Burnout 2004: intrusion (OCD'ish) / anxiety. Therapies: acupuncture, Chinese herbs, hypnotherapy --> symptoms were manageable (did return once in a while), depression lifted.2007 - Relapse, started with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Therapist recommended Fevarin (fluvoxamine) 150 mg. Recovery after 3 months and remained stable. Mild side effects.2009 - Tapered fluvoxamine. No withdrawal symptoms. 2010 - Relapse, same Pure O thought and anxiety. Started taking 100 mg of fluvoxamine but after 9 weeks no change in symptoms. Did not have any effect on Pure O thought. Switched to Lexapro (escitalopram) 20 mg. Drug started working within 3 weeks. Mild side effects. Slowly over the years tapered to 5 mg.2015: Lots of personal issues and setbacks, occasional panic attack. 2016: April started skipping doses; 5mg escitalopram every other day (in hindsight a bad idea)May: Major relapse, anxiety and intrusion returned. Depression. Increased from 2,5 mg 15 mg in two weeks. Side effects: neuro-emotionsJune: Escitalopram has no effect on the frequency of the intrusion...after 4 weeks my general doctor advised me to do a fast taper to 5mg. Withdrawal effects (2/3 weeks): neuro-emotions, lack of focus, crying spells, fatigue, muscle twitches in legs, cortisol spikes just before waking up July: Stable on 5 mg. Depression and intrusion lifted during holiday (lots of sunshine, long walks and relaxing) August: Drop down to 2,5 mg. Withdrawal effects (tinnitus, headagues) are noticeable, but still mild in comparison to the big drop earlier.22th August: stopped escitalopram completely. Cortisol spikes just before waking up, still OCD (only temporary improvements), WD-depression and WD-neuro emotions.Update 6 dec: no medication, any withdrawal symptoms not noticable. Taking supplements for intrusive thoughts and overall well being: N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) omega 3 fish oils, zinc, vitamin d, magnesium l-threonate, ginko biloba Link to comment
Moderator brassmonkey Posted October 18, 2016 Moderator Share Posted October 18, 2016 Congratulations on becoming drug free. It's quite an accomplishment. I hope you see even more improvements as time passes. (((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))) 20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013. Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks. The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better. Final Dose 0.016mg. Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017 "It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general." Stephen Hawking Link to comment
Susanne Posted October 20, 2016 Author Share Posted October 20, 2016 Congratulations on becoming drug free. It's quite an accomplishment. I hope you see even more improvements as time passes. (((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))) Thank you!!! All my life: Occasional panic attacks. 2003: Burnout 2004: intrusion (OCD'ish) / anxiety. Therapies: acupuncture, Chinese herbs, hypnotherapy --> symptoms were manageable (did return once in a while), depression lifted.2007 - Relapse, started with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Therapist recommended Fevarin (fluvoxamine) 150 mg. Recovery after 3 months and remained stable. Mild side effects.2009 - Tapered fluvoxamine. No withdrawal symptoms. 2010 - Relapse, same Pure O thought and anxiety. Started taking 100 mg of fluvoxamine but after 9 weeks no change in symptoms. Did not have any effect on Pure O thought. Switched to Lexapro (escitalopram) 20 mg. Drug started working within 3 weeks. Mild side effects. Slowly over the years tapered to 5 mg.2015: Lots of personal issues and setbacks, occasional panic attack. 2016: April started skipping doses; 5mg escitalopram every other day (in hindsight a bad idea)May: Major relapse, anxiety and intrusion returned. Depression. Increased from 2,5 mg 15 mg in two weeks. Side effects: neuro-emotionsJune: Escitalopram has no effect on the frequency of the intrusion...after 4 weeks my general doctor advised me to do a fast taper to 5mg. Withdrawal effects (2/3 weeks): neuro-emotions, lack of focus, crying spells, fatigue, muscle twitches in legs, cortisol spikes just before waking up July: Stable on 5 mg. Depression and intrusion lifted during holiday (lots of sunshine, long walks and relaxing) August: Drop down to 2,5 mg. Withdrawal effects (tinnitus, headagues) are noticeable, but still mild in comparison to the big drop earlier.22th August: stopped escitalopram completely. Cortisol spikes just before waking up, still OCD (only temporary improvements), WD-depression and WD-neuro emotions.Update 6 dec: no medication, any withdrawal symptoms not noticable. Taking supplements for intrusive thoughts and overall well being: N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) omega 3 fish oils, zinc, vitamin d, magnesium l-threonate, ginko biloba Link to comment
DaddyCee Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Hi everyone, not sure who's interested, but I've been medication free since the 22th of August. I've started Magnesium L-Threonate yesterday. I still have my 'regular' OCD thought, but it seems like there's been some progress as well. It's never really gone, always lurking in the background. My concentration is poor and it pops up more than a few times as an hour goes by. I try to ignore it as much as I can. I also started Kundalini Yoga, following the protocol by David Shannahoff-Khalsa ( from his book 'Sacred Therapies'). My psychologist is also a yoga teacher and follows KY classes herself, so helped me getting started with the exercises in the book. I have high hopes, but it feels so silly doing the exercises...I really hope they will start working! I don't know if there are still any WD symptoms. After stopping in August I had some new intrusions (which went away after a day or two) and racing thoughts. When I went to sleep I closed my eyes and weird images started to run around in my head. These things I never had during the use of escitalpram and in the years before I started it. So I tried not to overstimulate with coffee, sugar and internet browsing (looking for more info on my issues, which is very addictive for me!). I obviously needed more relaxation time. My general doctor thinks I should start sertraline to overcome the Pure O. She says it's safe to take these kinds of meds for the rest of my life. I was in her office and I was thinking: 1)Where does your information come from? and 2)what if they stop working? So I haven't picked up the prescription. All I can say is Eek!! I would be wary of taking these drugs for the rest of my life. Escitalopram is quite a hard one to come off from in my opinion. You are hopefully going to disprove this and have very little trouble at all. It's good to hear that you are med free and long may that continue. Keep up with the Yoga, Mindfulness and take quality time out for yourself regularly. I'd also cut out the caffeine and sugar. Also abstaining from Alcohol will help greatly. I wish you all the success in the world..... you can do it!! Namaste, DC. 1997 - 2001 Seroxat 10mg 2001 - 2013 Escitalopram 10mg Gradual taper from 10mg to 5mg over 2.5 years (between 2011 - 2013) Last taper from 5mg to 0 under advice from doctor done in 1 month (too damn fast!) - included missing out days. Have been drug free since Oct 2013. - Yep 5 years drugs free Link to comment
Susanne Posted October 21, 2016 Author Share Posted October 21, 2016 Thank you so much DC!!I'll try to cut back on sugar....alcohol isn't any problem for me but coffee...I usually drink one cup in the morning and one cup in the evening...not much right?Well, I hope I don't need to start any psych drug again, but the up-and-down Pure O is driving me crazy. It never really goes away for good. I can have a few good days and then it'll just pop up again, which results in me getting agitated about this again. I'll end up in the same viscous circle with more intrusive thoughts, which is incredibly annoying. The only thing that would (what I thought was permanently) fix that were fluvoxamine and escitalopram. I actually had 6 years of no obsessive thinking. Best years of my life up till now!So going back on the meds is sometimes tempting!I've started magnesium-l-threonate a few days ago, so I can't say it it's working for me. Magnesium should have a calming effect, but last night I was tense and anxious and my concentration has been poor this week. Really disappointing....I need more patience...I was actually OK with taking these meds for the rest of my life, since I thought it would keep the obsessions away. And side effects were manageable. Getting off was a bigger problem when they just stopped working....so that's my issue with going on an SSRI again: the withdrawal when it stops working. All my life: Occasional panic attacks. 2003: Burnout 2004: intrusion (OCD'ish) / anxiety. Therapies: acupuncture, Chinese herbs, hypnotherapy --> symptoms were manageable (did return once in a while), depression lifted.2007 - Relapse, started with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Therapist recommended Fevarin (fluvoxamine) 150 mg. Recovery after 3 months and remained stable. Mild side effects.2009 - Tapered fluvoxamine. No withdrawal symptoms. 2010 - Relapse, same Pure O thought and anxiety. Started taking 100 mg of fluvoxamine but after 9 weeks no change in symptoms. Did not have any effect on Pure O thought. Switched to Lexapro (escitalopram) 20 mg. Drug started working within 3 weeks. Mild side effects. Slowly over the years tapered to 5 mg.2015: Lots of personal issues and setbacks, occasional panic attack. 2016: April started skipping doses; 5mg escitalopram every other day (in hindsight a bad idea)May: Major relapse, anxiety and intrusion returned. Depression. Increased from 2,5 mg 15 mg in two weeks. Side effects: neuro-emotionsJune: Escitalopram has no effect on the frequency of the intrusion...after 4 weeks my general doctor advised me to do a fast taper to 5mg. Withdrawal effects (2/3 weeks): neuro-emotions, lack of focus, crying spells, fatigue, muscle twitches in legs, cortisol spikes just before waking up July: Stable on 5 mg. Depression and intrusion lifted during holiday (lots of sunshine, long walks and relaxing) August: Drop down to 2,5 mg. Withdrawal effects (tinnitus, headagues) are noticeable, but still mild in comparison to the big drop earlier.22th August: stopped escitalopram completely. Cortisol spikes just before waking up, still OCD (only temporary improvements), WD-depression and WD-neuro emotions.Update 6 dec: no medication, any withdrawal symptoms not noticable. Taking supplements for intrusive thoughts and overall well being: N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) omega 3 fish oils, zinc, vitamin d, magnesium l-threonate, ginko biloba Link to comment
Cyclone84 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Susanne, Did you end up getting back on meds? EffexorXR 150mg - on and off since 2003-2004 Last Taper August 2018 - October 2018 Reinstatement of EffexorXR - December 2018 Started mirtazapine 15mg - December 2018 - dose increased to 30mg, now down to 22.5mg Hydroxyzine - December 2018 - 25mg, as needed EffexorXR - 75mg Link to comment
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