Boardwalk Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 I am under a physician's care for titrating down from Mirtazapine, 7.5 mg per night, and closazepam .5 mg twice per day after abruptly stopping skunk weed use for 6 months. I have only been on the two drugs for 4 weeks. Obviously I will take direction from my doctor on titration. All of the available literature for stopping skunk weed, a strong strain of marijuana, says that it usually takes about 4 weeks to recover. If I would have known I would have dramatic anxiety I would have slowly stopped using the weed, but I did not and had an acute anxiety arise. Looking for input as to how long my taper may need to be off these two drugs, given the fact that I have only been taking them for 4 weeks. I would love to hear from anyone with similar situation, or qualified people that can advise me as what to expect. Thank you. I was prescribed Effexor 150 mg for 15 yrs ending 2014 when I titrated slowly down, using Prozac the last month to stop. The whole titration took about 1 year. I had been lowered to 75 mg Effexor for the last 3 yrs before the titration began. I used the counting beads method, and gained great help from supplementling with Prozac the last month. In Jan 2016 I began ingesting strong skunk weed, in the form of edibles, and then stopped abruptly July 1, 2016. My daily dose of weed was a dash (spoon size of the measuring spoon I have) daily. My reaction was acute anxiety. July 5th I was prescribed Remeron 7.5 mg in the evening and Xanax 1mg twice per day ... August 4th my Xanax was replaced by Clonazepam .5 mg twice per day as the goal was to titrate, using a longer acting benzo. Titration on Clonazepam is expected to begin August 10th. Link to comment
nz11 Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 Welcome Boardwalk, Boy that skunk weed sounds potent stuff. Sorry the doc gave you further potent stuff to mask skunk weed withdrawal. You have asked a very very good question. So glad you found sa. nz11 Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
Boardwalk Posted August 7, 2016 Author Share Posted August 7, 2016 Well, the doc had to do something, I was a complete mess. They even prescribed Effexor, which they think I am taking, but I learned the hard way with that stuff.....good luck titrating off of that. I will never take that drug again. Thanks for taking the time to answer ... I appreciate it. I guess I'll just have to titrate slowly and see how things develop as I go. thanks very much. I was prescribed Effexor 150 mg for 15 yrs ending 2014 when I titrated slowly down, using Prozac the last month to stop. The whole titration took about 1 year. I had been lowered to 75 mg Effexor for the last 3 yrs before the titration began. I used the counting beads method, and gained great help from supplementling with Prozac the last month. In Jan 2016 I began ingesting strong skunk weed, in the form of edibles, and then stopped abruptly July 1, 2016. My daily dose of weed was a dash (spoon size of the measuring spoon I have) daily. My reaction was acute anxiety. July 5th I was prescribed Remeron 7.5 mg in the evening and Xanax 1mg twice per day ... August 4th my Xanax was replaced by Clonazepam .5 mg twice per day as the goal was to titrate, using a longer acting benzo. Titration on Clonazepam is expected to begin August 10th. Link to comment
nz11 Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 Hi boardwalk. Im not a moderator but it appears from your latest post that you have inferred prior psychotropic drug exposure..ie venlafaxine. First things first, would you be so kind so as to fill out your drug signature with start dates and doses and taper method. Its generally accepted that dependance is established at one month for antidepressants (although imo it may well be sooner) and 1-2 weeks for a benzo. So they will need to be tapered. However depending on prior usage i dont think you will need to be hanging around there is no need to take these longer than you have to. Its the protocol of this site to taper the ad first and the benzo second. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12364-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/ http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2207-taking-multiple-psych-drugs-which-drug-to-taper-first/ Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus scallywag Posted August 7, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted August 7, 2016 Hi Boardwalk -- Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants (SA) I'm sorry that you are in the position that you need the information, but am glad that you found us. I hope you'll find the information in the SA forums enlightening and helpful for your taper. nz11 has pointed you in the direction of 2 relevant threads. One request about your signature: please use actual/approximate dates, "July 12" rather than a relative time frame, "4 weeks ago." Please create your signature, read the thread on which drug to taper first, then come back to this thread/topic and post questions about your situation. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to 0.0 mg Aug. 12; details here scallywag's IntroductionOnline spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Shep Posted August 8, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted August 8, 2016 Hi, Boardwalk. Welcome to SA from me, too. We have a members-only benzo forum that can help you with your clonazepam taper. Feel free to start a new topic once you are ready to taper your benzo. Members only benzo forum The Ashton Manual will give you more information on what to expect with benzo withdrawal: The 2002 Ashton Manual is at http://www.benzo.org...anual/index.htm The April, 7 2011 Ashton Manual Supplement is at http://www.benzo.org.uk/ashsupp11.htm Please note that Dr. Ashton did her research before much was known about antidepressant withdrawal, so she does mention using antidepressants to aid with benzo withdrawal. We, of course, do not recommend that, but her research on tapering benzos will be helpful, as well as her description of symptoms. Some people find that fish oil and magnesium help with symptoms and to calm the fragile CNS. Please research all supplements first and only add in one at a time, starting at a low dose. King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker Wishing you well on your tapers. Link to comment
Boardwalk Posted August 8, 2016 Author Share Posted August 8, 2016 Hi boardwalk. Im not a moderator but it appears from your latest post that you have inferred prior psychotropic drug exposure..ie venlafaxine. First things first, would you be so kind so as to fill out your drug signature with start dates and doses and taper method. Its generally accepted that dependance is established at one month for antidepressants (although imo it may well be sooner) and 1-2 weeks for a benzo. So they will need to be tapered. However depending on prior usage i dont think you will need to be hanging around there is no need to take these longer than you have to. Its the protocol of this site to taper the ad first and the benzo second. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12364-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/ http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2207-taking-multiple-psych-drugs-which-drug-to-taper-first/ I have filled out the signature to the best of my ability. Does this help with your answer? Very much appreciate the time you are taking with me, Boardwald I was prescribed Effexor 150 mg for 15 yrs ending 2014 when I titrated slowly down, using Prozac the last month to stop. The whole titration took about 1 year. I had been lowered to 75 mg Effexor for the last 3 yrs before the titration began. I used the counting beads method, and gained great help from supplementling with Prozac the last month. In Jan 2016 I began ingesting strong skunk weed, in the form of edibles, and then stopped abruptly July 1, 2016. My daily dose of weed was a dash (spoon size of the measuring spoon I have) daily. My reaction was acute anxiety. July 5th I was prescribed Remeron 7.5 mg in the evening and Xanax 1mg twice per day ... August 4th my Xanax was replaced by Clonazepam .5 mg twice per day as the goal was to titrate, using a longer acting benzo. Titration on Clonazepam is expected to begin August 10th. Link to comment
Boardwalk Posted August 8, 2016 Author Share Posted August 8, 2016 I have updated my signature and read the info on which to taper first, anti depressant or anti anxiety. I will restate my situation here. In 1999 I was prescribed 150mg Effexor XR and in approx. 2010 went to 75mg. In 2013 I began titration downward by counting beads, the last month was supplemented with Prozac which made the final final month smoother. I ended Effexor in 2014. Jan 1, 2016 I began ingesting a dash of potent skunk weed daily in the form of edibles. Dash is the measurement using measuring spoon language. I abruptly stopped the weed on July 1, 2016 and experienced acute anxiety; on July 5th was prescribed Mirtazapine 7.5 mg with one evening dose and Xanax, 1 mg twice per day. On August 4th the Xanax was replaced with Clonazepam .5 mg twice per day, which is an exact equal dose according to the mds chart. The switch was made due to the longer acting nature of Clonazepam vs Xanax. I have not begun titration on either yet. With the info I gathered here, I will ask the doctor to begin titration with the Mirtazapine first. This is where I currently stand. I was prescribed Effexor 150 mg for 15 yrs ending 2014 when I titrated slowly down, using Prozac the last month to stop. The whole titration took about 1 year. I had been lowered to 75 mg Effexor for the last 3 yrs before the titration began. I used the counting beads method, and gained great help from supplementling with Prozac the last month. In Jan 2016 I began ingesting strong skunk weed, in the form of edibles, and then stopped abruptly July 1, 2016. My daily dose of weed was a dash (spoon size of the measuring spoon I have) daily. My reaction was acute anxiety. July 5th I was prescribed Remeron 7.5 mg in the evening and Xanax 1mg twice per day ... August 4th my Xanax was replaced by Clonazepam .5 mg twice per day as the goal was to titrate, using a longer acting benzo. Titration on Clonazepam is expected to begin August 10th. Link to comment
nz11 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Wow Boardwalk that update sure sheds some light on it . I can tell you now you would be very wise to follow sa's taper advice. It is well known that illegal drugs are a gateway to even worse drugs...legal ones prescribed by the doctor. Also legal ones are a gateway in the other direction as well. Be very careful when taking advice from the doctor he will no doubt say to taper in a week or two. They dont know about withdrawal and are very dismissive. Its best to get a second opinion from sa Thanks for the clarification nz11 Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
Boardwalk Posted September 29, 2016 Author Share Posted September 29, 2016 I was originally prescribed Mirtazapine, (Remeron) July 24, 2016, and began taper Aug 10. Completed the taper on Sept. 20, 2016. Needed to reinstate the taper and went to 75% of original dose, (it solved an anxiety problem). My question is do I need to do a 10% taper, holding current dose for one week or may I proceed more quickly....seeking which % and schedule to adopt. Thank you. I was prescribed Effexor 150 mg for 15 yrs ending 2014 when I titrated slowly down, using Prozac the last month to stop. The whole titration took about 1 year. I had been lowered to 75 mg Effexor for the last 3 yrs before the titration began. I used the counting beads method, and gained great help from supplementling with Prozac the last month. In Jan 2016 I began ingesting strong skunk weed, in the form of edibles, and then stopped abruptly July 1, 2016. My daily dose of weed was a dash (spoon size of the measuring spoon I have) daily. My reaction was acute anxiety. July 5th I was prescribed Remeron 7.5 mg in the evening and Xanax 1mg twice per day ... August 4th my Xanax was replaced by Clonazepam .5 mg twice per day as the goal was to titrate, using a longer acting benzo. Titration on Clonazepam is expected to begin August 10th. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted September 29, 2016 Administrator Share Posted September 29, 2016 Boardwalk, this question is a continuation of your Intro topic so I merged them. It sounds like going off mirtazapine caused withdrawal or other rebound symptoms. Surges of anxiety are a common withdrawal symptom. If that is so, if I were you, I'd give reinstatement a month or more. Let your nervous system settle down from drug changes. After that, I would taper by 10%. You've already demonstrated you cannot tolerate a 6-week taper. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
nz11 Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 I was originally prescribed Mirtazapine, (Remeron) July 24, 2016, and began taper Aug 10. Completed the taper on Sept. 20, 2016. Needed to reinstate the taper and went to 75% of original dose, (it solved an anxiety problem). My question is do I need to do a 10% taper, holding current dose for one week or may I proceed more quickly....seeking which % and schedule to adopt. Thank you. To be a possible exception to the 10% rule for mirtaz. taper could be an option if prior to mirtza. you had a drug naive brain. (Just love this term). But this is not the case for you. You have had 15 or so years of drug exposure to multiple psychotropic drugs. The effect is cumulative. You say "But it is a harmless antihistamine." I am sorry but i disagree with you. These drugs are anything but harmless. What you call 'an anxiety problem ' on quitting the remeron is the wdl symptoms from a too fast taper. You seem to be oblivious to this. I would say yes you need to taper at no faster than the 10% rate but not per week, per month. But here's the thing you may even need to go slower ...5% per month. 4th oct you said Research Dr. Ken Gillman saying that Mirtazapine (Remeron) is actually not an anti depressant. Unbelievable. I am just starting to taper from 7.5 mg and will experiment a little with the % that I cut to see how it feels. If you are saying it is not an ssri or snri then i suppose you are right. But it is one of the newer antidepressants (that alone should raise a red flag and a desire to be cautious). 9th of Oct you said: ...and having heard this news that Mirtazapine does not affect serotonin levels in the brain made all the difference to me. Like they all say, everyone is different and I have been reducing by 10% daily and felt nothing. My apologies if others experiencing difficulties. But you have experienced difficulties thats why you reinstated right?? Remeron/mirtazepine DOES affect serotonin levels however it appears its by a different mechanism to ssris and snris. And because it boosts serotonin and noradrenaline the withdrawal symptoms seen with remeron resemble those seen with ssris and snris. [refer: F Benazzi "Mirtazepine withdrawal symptoms" Canadian journal or psychiatry 1998; 43 (4):525; J Klesmer, A. Sarcevic, V .Fomari, "Panic attacks during discontinuation of mirtazapine " Canadian journal of psychiatry ;2000; 45 (65):570-1; C MacCall, J Callender, "Mirtazepine withdrawal causing hypomania" British journal of psychiatry 1999; 175: 390] Furthermore remeron like all the other antidepressants has secondary effects on other neurotransmitters which is not fully understood. on 8th October you said: The doctor, who is well versed in this subject, calls it a simple, although strong anti histamine..... I am coming off Mirtazapine as well. If Mitrazapine is not an antidepressant, what is it? I have been tapering this with big cuts, and feel ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. The doctor is right. I will continue to reduce slowly, just because it makes sense not to change anything abruptly, but I can tell you having had a boat load of experience tapering off codeine, methadone and just in the last month Xanax, which was by far the worst, that Mirazapine is just what the doctor calls it: an antihistamine. Perhaps it could be argued your doctor is not as well versed as maybe he could be.? You have already shown that you aren't able to cope with big cuts so i cant understand why you would do this again. nz11 Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
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