ZazOA9: Effexor tapering

[ZazOA9]

Hi,been on venlifaxine 75mg.

Started w/doctor's formula of alternating 37.5 and 75 .Started feeling w/d symptoms still have symptoms.

 

a few weeks later.Have reinstated to 75 about 3 weeks ago.total time has been about 3 momths.Been on ven. For 10 years+.is this normal to have symptoms 3 weeks after?Sorry for the length.

[scallywag]

Zaz - -- Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants (SA)
 
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Alternating doses is a risky way to reduce Effexor and any other psych drug.  It is more likely to create "discontinuation" or withdrawal symptoms than reducing the dose slightly and taking that lower dose consistently every day. Unfortunately symptoms can take a significant period of time to settle after the CNS (central nervous system) has been destabilized by dose reductions.

What is withdrawal syndrome

 

 

This topic describes what's happening in your brain and CNS (central nervous system) when you decrease dosage:
How your brain responds to psychiatric drugs - aka "Brain remodeling"

 

Please hold steady at your current dose. Give your body a chance to catch up after the thrashing it's been given by the changing doses. In your shoes, I'd wait until my symptoms stabilized -- maybe not gone altogether but not swinging wildly -- and then hold for at least a another month before considering cutting the venlafaxine dose.

Before you begin tapering
 
Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

[ZazOA9]

Thanks .I guess I'll practice more patience.Dizziness and nausea are the biggest withdrawal symptoms right now.Along with anxiety.

[ZazOA9]

Hello.Tried to fast taper 3 months ago from 75mgs. Venlifaxine to 37.5mg.as per doctor orders. Went into withdrawal soon after. Went back up to 75 after 2 months of confusion.been on 75 for 3 weeks.Still in withdrawal .Do I wait to stabilize?

[ZazOA9]

Hello.Tried to fast taper 3 months ago from 75mgs. Venlifaxine to 37.5mg.as per doctor orders. Went into withdrawal soon after. Went back up to 75 after 2 months of confusion.been on 75 for 3 weeks.Still in withdrawal .Do I wait to stabilize?

[ChessieCat]

Hi ZazO

 

So that we can offer suggestions based on your individual situation:

 

INSTRUCTIONS:  Please put your Withdrawal History in Signature  OR  If you are using a phone or a tablet

 

ScallyWag has already stated above:  "Please hold steady at your current dose. Give your body a chance to catch up after the thrashing it's been given by the changing doses."

 

Please have a read of the links that SW gave you in her post above.

 

This helped me to understand SA's recommended tapering method and holding to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

[ZazOA9]

Not sure if after this time,I'm getting an adverse reaction to the 75mgs that I'M ON?

[ZazOA9]

Been on 75mgs.Trying to stabilize for over a month.feeling drugged.

[ChessieCat]

Hi ZazO,

 

Thank you for completing your signature.  Please add the date you reinstated to it.

 

Please answer the following questions as best as you can.  These will help us to make suggestions.  Please keep daily notes on paper.

 

QUESTIONS:

 

Have you had any periods of time, however short, when you have felt improvement?  Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

What was your original reason for reducing the dosage?  Were you getting side effects?  What were they?

 

What withdrawal symptoms were you getting during the time you were alternating 37.5 & 75 doses?

 

What are your current symptoms?  What has improved or worsened since updosing to 75 mg?

 

Are you taking any other drugs (prescription or non-prescription)?  Are you drinking alcohol and/or caffeine (coffee, cola)?  Are you taking any supplements and/or vitamins?

[ZazOA9]

Updose on Aug 6 75mgs feel drugged drunk with dizziness, nausea, anxiety, low energy, short term memory loss.losartsn and water pill for hypertension.taking vit.b, ginger,fishoil.

[ZazOA9]

Not sure if it's w/d symptoms or adverse reactions to theeffexor

[ChessieCat]

How long have you been taking the Losartan?  See this link for the side effects.

[ZazOA9]

3+ years.have been on blood pressure meds for many years.

[ChessieCat]

Would you please answer my other questions?  Having these answers might give us some idea if it's withdrawal or something else.

 

Thank you.

[ZazOA9]

Had a brief window of a few hours earlier this month. Have a coffee in the a.m.No alcohol. No caffeine sodas.symptoms have worsened.Feel more drugged now along with dizziness and nauseous.My mind doesn't function.not automatic. Short term memory loss.

[ChessieCat]

Are the symptoms you are getting now the same as the symptoms you had when you were alternating doses?

[ZazOA9]

Originally wanted to get off effexor.That's because it wasn't working.

[ZazOA9]

Yes. Only more intense now.+ the feeling of being drugged.

[ChessieCat]

I'm trying to work out if you are experiencing the same thing you had BEFORE you started reducing your Effexor (side effects)

 

OR

 

Are you experiencing the same thing you had when you were ALTERNATING 35.5 & 75 mg doses (withdrawal symptoms).

[ZazOA9]

I didn't have any symptoms before I started room alternate

[ChessieCat]

Also, how many days did you alternate doses for?

[ZazOA9]

Not sure. About 5or6 days.then I tried a drop down every 4th day twice.was getting withdrawals by this time. Even tried 112.5 for a few days. What a mess!

[ChessieCat]

It sounds like you might just need to hang in there for a while longer before you try another taper.  Maybe you could try and work out if there is any food or drink that may make the nausea worse.

 

The hard thing when we are in withdrawal is that we feel like we should be doing something.  In fact, we generally need to be doing nothing to allow our brains to do the adapting that it needs to do.  I believe that when we worry and get anxious about it the brain has to divert its attention from healing to deal with the stress, so then it ends up taking longer.

 

Sometimes when we are in withdrawal we just have to learn to accept and wait out the symptoms.  I find that every now and then I feel nauseous and just think, oh that's a withdrawal symptom.  Apparently about 90% of our serotonin is in our gut so it's not surprising that our stomachs can be affected.  Understanding that they are symptoms can be helpful because it can take away the fear.  Claire Weekes calls it the second fear, or fear of the fear.  I suggest you check out these topics to see if something might help you:

 

1. Acceptance
2. Acceptance and Mindfulness
3. Claire Weekes' Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System
4. "Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms
5. Change cognitive framing - Redirect - Another Way
6. Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT) for anxiety, depression
7. Cognitive Behavior Therapy lessons

[ZazOA9]

Thank you so very much for your time. I really appreciate you doing the research for me and I will certainly check into these topics to read. Guess I'm just getting tired of being sick. And I must have been in denial that this is really happening !will give it more time

[ChessieCat]

Hi ZazO,

 

You are very welcome.  I understand you getting tired of being sick.  The funny thing is I had a regular old-fashioned cold recently and even though I had a couple of days where I was really sick, I think because I knew it was only going to be short-term, it was no big deal.  I think the hardest thing with withdrawal symptoms is we just don't know how long they will last for.

 

If you allow yourself to stabilise now, which after all the chopping and changing of doses seems to be what your brain and CNS (central nervous system) needs, hopefully when you do start tapering by a 10% (or less) dose drop you will only get mild symptoms and they may only last a short while.  Together with that, you will hopefully also start to feel better in yourself as your dose drops.

[ZazOA9]

I notice when I accept it,I feel better Read somewhere that anxiety causes nausea.Today is a little better. Got no sleep,but it worth talking about this with someone who's gone through this .

[ChessieCat]

Read somewhere that anxiety causes nausea.

 

I think when we understand what it happening it takes away the additional fear - the fear of the unknown.  When we get scared or anxious, that's when the the body goes into Fight, Flight, Freeze mode.  So what might start out as a bit of nausea from withdrawal can end up becoming a lot worse when we are made anxious by it and the adrenaline kicks in.

[ZazOA9]

Family was here.Concentrated on the grandkids.they don't judge! Haha!most of the "grown-ups " want me to see a neurologist. I understand their concerns.

[ZazOA9]

Lamictal, neurologist wants me on it.with effexor. Any thoughts and advice?wants to start at25mg and max out at 1oomgs in 6weeks

[ChessieCat]

Hi ZazO,

 

From the information in this post written by this site's owner, Alto Strata, it would seem that this neurologist may not know how to use Lamictal for withdrawal symptoms.  I say this because of what seems to be a high starting dose of 25 mg.  Alto's doctor starts everyone on 2 mg.

 

I have included Alto's post here and have highlighted some of the information for you:

 

"About Lamictal, here's the problem: Not many doctors know how to use Lamictal and recognize when to increase and when to decrease dosage, plus how it's affecting the withdrawal symptoms. They also don't understand the hypersensitivity issues and insist on doses that are far too high to accomplish what we want -- to support the nervous system in healing instead of inducing yet another drug-dominated state. Some people report bad reactions to doses of Lamictal that are too high.

 

For some people with a different variety of withdrawal syndrome, taking lamotrigine may not be the right approach.

 

Here are a few tips about using Lamictal that I learned from my doctor. I'm not an expert and I don't know how this would be applied to any particular person:

 

- Dosages are individual, need to be started at very low amounts, and slowly titrated up.

 

- He starts everyone out at 2mg or less. Because I was so hypersensitive, he started me on 0.5mg. He likes to give a dosage a try for 4 days to see how it works, get beyond initial wooziness, etc.

 

- The trick is to find exactly the right "sweet spot" for your nervous system. At one time, I started at 0.5mg, went up to 2.5mg, backed down again to 1mg, eventually settling at 1.07mg. In a second phase, I titrated up to 5.4mg. (I am currently tapering off.) Now, someone else's optimal dose may be 24.3mg or 38.2mg or 10.1mg.

 

- For someone with withdrawal insomnia, the "sweet spot" is a dosage at which sleep is increasing towards normal and side effects are negligible.

 

- Lamictal does increase GABA somewhat while decreasing glutamatergic transmission. However, the GABA system needs glutamate to make GABA so too much Lamictal will have a paradoxical effect -- you don't want to go too high.

 

- Signs that you're taking too much Lamictal: Queasiness or headache (or both), sleeplessness, agitation.

 

- Initial side effects can be wooziness, grogginess, sleepiness, lack of energy.

 

- To firmly establish the newly revived healthy brain patterns, expect to stay on the Lamictal for about a year. He has had patients who went off the medication and were fine, they didn't need to take it anymore.

 

- In severe withdrawal insomnia, deep sleep is the first to go and the last to come back. It's important because human growth hormone is secreted in deep sleep and it is physically and mentally restorative. When deep sleep returns, emotional numbing will lift."

[scallywag]

Zaz - Did the neurologist tell you why s/he thought you should take Lamictal (lamotrigine)?

[ZazOA9]

She recognizes my symptoms as discontinuation from effexor. Wants to use lamictal to relieve the effects.Realizes how hard it is to taper.I still want to stabilize on my own for a few weeks before I add the lamictal .

[ZazOA9]

If I do add lamictal it will be a much smaller dose.Any input is appreciated.I am leary of this drug.

[ZazOA9]

Have no intention of using the dose she wants me to use.Lots of side effects similar to the effexor w/d.last couple days have been better.less dizziness,still feeldruggy.want to "veg".Gonna wait it out.Hard to do.Doing nothing is tough.

[ZazOA9]

Was wondering if there's any other feedback on the subject of lamictal?

[ChessieCat]

Did you check out:  lamictal-lamotrigine-to-calm-post-discontinuation-withdrawal-symptoms